Should You Buy a RENAULT WIND? (Test Drive & Review)

[@Aprill264]

the renault wind is interesting, I personally quite like it

[@mariaellender6014]

I've had one for 5 years now and Love it !!!

[@adrianflower3230]

It looks like a "Lotus Europa that's eaten too many croissants!" Straight back to 70's design principles, I love it :-)

[@CarsofGlasgow]

I like it in a simplistic way! PS I have a Twingo RS video if you fancy another french car video :)

[@Dino-qq2jp]

You are at 50k because you deliver a very honest, transparent opinion on the cars. Your approach is not that of the typical "dodgy salesman". I would be confident buying from you, even though you dont actually use this platform to advertise your stock, which is also a reflection on the genuine nature of the chanel. Awesome work and please keep them coming! (You helped me to choose that a 520d was the car for me and purchased as a result). So, thank you!

[@HighPeakAutos]

Pleased to hear it! Thanks for watching :)

[@Viewer-ld5rc]

One of the best, most informative videos I’ve seen on any car ever. No fluff or filler, just your observations and facts about the car easily presented for us, the viewers. Superb.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks!

[@BazColne]

I love the design of French cars in general. The Wind is beautiful and quirky.

[@iconicshrubbery]

It badly needs a racy stripe down the side to break up the volume. And lose that Wind badge.

[@manofched]

We hired one when we were on holiday in Tenerife a few years ago, really enjoyed it, but with no forward planning at all we said we would leave it at the airport before we flew home. As you can see, there was no room for two suitcases and bags. Ended up balancing one on the open roof and held onto it desperately. Good times!! Oh! Great review Matt!

[@dmw13]

A local guy has a spider that he takes to local car meets. Its an absolute gem. Fantastic looking car.

[@colw2997]

I am the lucky one and own the Renault Wind/Collection in Black, and it is a fabulous reliable car and a looker.

[@prestonian1066]

You are and it is. I owned a black collection years ago and like an idiot, I sold it for something bigger and now I want it back. Can't remember the number but it was low, maybe 5/200. Now they are like rocking horse shit to find and in good condition and always miles away!

[@nickgoode8579]

The chassis was the previous gen Clio, like the 182 etc. Brilliant chassis which is why it drives so well. If they had put the 182 2.0 litre engine in it too it would of been a massive hit imo. Rather than the twingo engine.

[@rabajas]

I have owned one for past 6 years and this review is pretty accurate...I still look forward to getting in and driving it....its just different and turns heads....very reliable and you can enjoy driving in summer or winter...quite simply, this is a great car for the money.

[@rp6523]

I remember seeing one of these on the road and being really intrigued. I put it in the same class as Vauxhall Tigra. Maybe they only made it for a short time because it was a fashion item rather than a car? Great video though. I love that you feature normal, real world cars. Keep at it 👍

[@antonsturesson8235]

It looks bloated but I still somehow love the weirdness of this little thing! When I get the chance I'm definitely importing one from Germany to Sweden. They were never sold here new and I've never seen one on the road. Don't know if it'll be a future classic but it's certainly a future classic to me personally. Great content as always! Stay safe out there!

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha I didnt know that. I always like to drive something that nobody else has too

[@Barxxo]

future classic... that's what i thought too

[@sthegpc2439]

It’s got an arse like a Kardashian.

[@RODAN_FPL]

The volumne knob - that's because it was made with LHD in mind :) Though I can't disagree, the centre one should be the vol. up/down :) Cruise control - just like you mentioned, classic Renault :) You can find it in the front tunnel in quite a few models.

[@giovannifalcone8282]

One thing he didn't mention is that it also has steering wheel controls for the stereo, making the pilot's life easier! :)

[@JT-tk4me]

I'm now on auto trader looking at them. Somebody stop me😶

[@PhilbyFavourites]

J T have you found one yet? I saw one in “Imperial Cars” about three years ago. Certainly looked different.

[@JT-tk4me]

Hey Phil B. Not yet. Mentioned it to my 27 year old son and he said. "If I sell the RCF to buy a Wind he would disown me". Obviously hes not blown away by the Wind🤣🤣🤣.

[@eken9t]

@@JT-tk4me i have one for sale 3500 send me a message !

[@JT-tk4me]

@@eken9t Hi. I wasn't looking seriously. What is yours like and why are you selling? You can be honest as I'm not in the market JT.

[@eken9t]

@@JT-tk4me it's great fun but now time for something faster, I need to get in the track car game

[@alchapman1052]

Certainly different in appearance,have seen a few about but not many. Always a treat to watch .

[@sthegpc2439]

Thanks for giving us something to watch just now, very much appreciated.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks for watching

[@adegower4426]

I've got one! Love it!

[@angrymuffinsb]

You’ve got many followers quickly because; you’re honest, not showing off, fair & do it all in a British humour way. So very happy this channel is doing well! If you can kindly get a WK2 post facelift already, I can shut up 😂🥴😭

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks! I appreciate it :)

[@CrazyCragg]

Chuckled at the carriage clock comment 👍🏻

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha cheers

[@terryneilbooth]

I once admired this car as being different, controversial and stylish. But you nailed it when you said not quite a complete composition. Shame as Renault may have had a winner at the time of Launch. I’m sure it has many fans just for being different.

[@geraldhornsby]

So there's nothing between "cool and unusual" and "hideous"? And what is it about you and cup holders? If I ever designed a car, I'd put 4 cup holders in the front, just for you. Cheers, Matt. I always look forward to your videos.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha thanks

[@giovannifalcone8282]

I am a 20 year old boy, I purchased a Renault Wind (1.2 Turbo) as a second car. I completely removed the things that bothered me, like that huge mirror and replaced it with a smaller one. Changed ALL the speakers, replaced the stereo with a modern Pioneer and added a Subwoofer with 1500 Watt amplifier, not to mention all the LEDs in the passenger compartment and in the trunk. Added 40mm spacers behind, and much more stuff... I have to say that this car, either you love it or you hate it and I love it very much. Looking at it from the photos/videos I was very confused, but as soon as I entered it, EVERYTHING CHANGED! Upcoming updates will be a larger turbo and intercooler, also lowered springs and perhaps even larger wheels. (My idea, 235/30 R19) . Do not hate me for my choice, always respect the choices of others, this year I will go on holiday for the second time with my Wind! (1800km away from my house, just to understand each other). This video was beautiful to watch, in fact everything that he said is almost true... the only thing that was obviously missing is love to the car! :D Beautiful channel, I feel that I need to subscribe to this! Many greetings from Germany.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks! Thanks for subscribing :)

[@michealhaskell7258]

Don't fit bigger wheels - you would over gear it and reduce performance!!

[@brianjenkins4611]

Have one renault gordini 1.6 for about 8 years, love it.

[@sixaxis222]

After watching this and other reviews thousands times, I finally found the one I looked fot, a blue 1.6 Gordini Wind. I must tell for the price it is a nice little fun, even sporty car. Love it. My family loves is, too. Thanks for the video.

[@spencertresseme]

I had a wind when they first came out! Traded it I after a few year but missed it so much. Just got myself the 1.6 GT line and am over the moon again 😍

[@davideselvi3906]

Where are Renault EARTH and Renault FIRE???? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@HighPeakAutos]

Due in September I think

[@Nilfaultfound22]

@@HighPeakAutos It's a fantasy!

[@philcrockford5534]

The Fuego was a few years back 😉

[@HighPeakAutos]

Phil Crockford Yeah Thats right. I’d forgotten about the Fuego

[@qwertzuiop7741]

Pontiac Fiero and Honda Earth Dreams

[@robgibbsofficial]

Never seen one before! I really like the styling mind you I have owned x3 Renault 5 GT Turbos in the past. The reason you have 50k subs is that you are very good at what you do - thanks for your great content - here's to the next 50k subs! Best Rob

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks for watching! I've never driven a Renault 5. Take care :)

[@peterjackson2561]

My friend had a Renault 5 in the 80's. The strapline in the ads at the time was 'what's yours called?'.......we named my friends 'Le Grand Bastard' after it blew up twice Haha

[@joelamosun6968]

@@peterjackson2561 🤣...yeah...they either blow up or catch fire... guaranteed....my friends had 5 GT turbos that did just that..

[@chaserdave]

Did you try finding the heated seats switch.... that's a fun one. I had mine for two month before I found it

[@fx02zbn]

Not surprised you've hit 50k subs. Your channel blows all the other car tests into the weeds. Dont change your format for anyone!

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks! I appreciate it :)

[@keithparish5863]

And can you believe they now seem to be appreciating !

[@DJL78]

It’s a fine car to keep at a beach house. From the side view it looks like Dory from that Disney film.

[@kirk803]

I need a sensible family car, but something fun and quirky for the weekends is appealing as well. You keep presenting so many options for both categories that I never would have thought of. Cheers for doing videos on the sorts of cars most people wouldn't look at twice.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks!

[@jamesk1806]

It's Quirky and typically French... Nice colour and looks modern all things considered. The mechanical action of the roof is a thing of beauty.

[@ejpurkis]

I have to admire your honesty. I spent a short while selling cars,and I did not like the sales managers in ability to be straight with customers. He idolised Arthur Daley . I appreciate that you will go out on a limb and buy quirky. In many ways selling second hand vehicles is often rewarding- you match car to customer- “ah Mr Smith, I think I’ve got something you might really like”.

[@MikeDriving]

I've never seen one of these, not even on the internet.

[@Luckyjo21]

1500+ of them in the uk

[@HighPeakAutos]

Sold in total or currently registered?

[@Luckyjo21]

@@HighPeakAutos just registered, check howmanyleft, that website tells you about every car model and spec!

[@silcosilva]

same, I have no idea this existed till now...

[@davidlee4966]

You must live in a very remote area, it appeared as the longest prescription run in history😀😀

[@PhilbyFavourites]

David Lee: “Evenin’ All - it’s The Filth here, we’re watching ‘im”.

[@laurenpeters1542]

4:17 the cruise control button is no problem. You have to switch it on just the first time, after that you don't need to touch the button anymore. And the volume button is not far from the driver, the steering wheel is on the wrong site of the car ;)

[@darrenwilson8042]

I've had a few Renaults - no idea why I keep going back to the well - great ideas let down by assembly - they are mostly a collection of electrical and mechanical issues travelling together in close formation. A liability.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thats right. Its probably my favourite french brand, or least loathed anyway

[@justkiddin1980]

All Renaults are garbage and since they own a big piece of Nissan..all nissans are garbage also..

[@olivermaddison5430]

Hi keep up the great videos 👍 They are helping me through lockdown 👍

[@HighPeakAutos]

Cheers! take care

[@danwyatt6703]

Loved mine when I had one. It drove lovely, got plenty of attention and was great fun. Spot on with the quirks though. Another mad quirk was that when driving at night and pressing the brake pedal, the high brake light which sat at the top of the rear window would floodlight the rear deck and you'd dazzle yourself through the rearview mirror! They would have been properly awesome with the 2.0 from the Clio 197.

[@TheRobynhud]

Nice one Mat. l never stayed in at all during lock down ,just alot of motorcycle riding, kept me happy.

[@anonymouscyclist1233]

Like a modern crx del sol, with a bit of lotus in the styling, it's cool in quirky way, but so was the Avantime, gotta love renault when they go out on a limb

[@williamfence566]

Seeing that i have a Honda CRZ I love the quirkiness of the wind & even the name makes you smile. Don't have the hairline for a convertible though. Keep doing what you are doing and 100,000 subs isn't far away .

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks!

[@BrenTravisMusician]

The giant hazard light gets it's own shelf!? Ace. Just can't take my eyes off it.

[@leeallen7491]

Had a 05 plate Megane Convertible, never missed a beat, took it France great car, was the 2.0 petrol with Leather and six speed box bought it for a bit of fun one summer, wish i had kept it

[@timroberts2919]

The Wife Said if I bought her one of those "she would pack her bags" How much is it Matt?

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha I'm having the front bumper resprayed then it will go on for £3995

[@stephenpeacock2627]

High Peak Autos £3994 too much. Lol

[@braddeerrzz]

The volume controls for the driver are behind the steering wheel on the right hand side, kind of like a flappy paddle - you can answer calls from it, press the top part of the paddle for volume up, bottom for down, both at the same to pause/play and theres a little roller switch behind those to skip or rewind/previous song. its all within reach of your fingers and works amazingly but yes new passengers do end up changing tracks when trying to tell me something haha

[@philh3409]

Conversation down the pub (remember that?): MAN A: "I've got the Jag XF" MAN B: "I've got the Focus RS" MAN C: " I've got the Wind" (Man C leaves in embarrassment) 🤣🤣

[@PhilbyFavourites]

Phil H: Remember, it should be “I’ve got a Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag”

[@giovannifalcone8282]

Man C paid his car immediately in cash. Man A and B are still paying the installments...

[@MaximilianvonPinneberg]

That can't be true because man A would have broken down on the way to the pub, and man B would have wrapped his round a tree or lamppost. ;)

[@Ryan-jr2cv]

I had the 1.2 turbo - it was a great car and the flip roof was a great party piece but the fuel economy was absolutely shocking 28mpg.

[@Cloud007.]

How is nearly 30mpg shocking? That's not too bad for a petrol. You'd expect a bit more but not exactly shocking.

[@SlitWristMisfit_]

It might be small.but convertibles are very heavy, especially ones with a solid folding metal roof.

[@1000sofusernames]

@@Cloud007. it's utterly shit for 99hp. Should be at least 40mpg

[@andyrobinson1237]

The optional extra this really lacks is a 5 gallon can of petrol & a box of matches. It’s on the spec sheet as “Fire Package” .

[@SLR-722]

Congratulations to pass 15k subscribers! Good job. Pleasure to watch your car reviews. Cheers.

[@HighPeakAutos]

grigorio allegri Thanks for watching!

[@argonautsuk]

I love them. Thanks for the brilliant video. I thought initially that the roof was targa style manual removable. Hard top convertible to me is a selling plus in the British weather. Also the rarity is a plus as they will be high collectable in the future. Also it wouldn't worry me with the plastic bumper you can wrap the bumper,and that will be it. I will NOT sell my 206cc for this but I WILL buy a WIND now having seeing your video as a weekend toy.

[@HighPeakAutos]

They’re interesting cars. I like them. The turbo engine is good

[@frodehjelmerviken2526]

3:56 because you are in a car that is supposed to have the steering wheel on the correct side of the car. Then the volume knob will not be far away from the driver.

[@Vaguepaperchasing]

Sounding a lot more upbeat here, good to see you’re still alive and kicking. Great news with the subscriber count! However, I’ll stick with the E Class 😂

[@MP-Fin]

I have never seen or heard of this car, haha! And here in Finland Renault, Peugeot, and Citröen are very common! One car that intrigues me is the Peugeot RCZ. I mean it looks like sports car but it has a small petrol engine? Maybe review that one if you can? Cheers mate let’s stay healthy.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks for watching. I'l definitely do a video with an RCZ when I get one next

[@lucacristian5919]

Loved the comment for the hazard light 😂😂 as for your question about how it looks in our opinion, well.. I was always polite and gentle with my comments.. until now: it’s f*****n ugly I would say. Cheers Matt! P.s. I know that you are well mannered and think about the haters who just complain nowadays about people going out and stuff, but you shouldn’t motivate yourself. We are really happy when we see a new video! 👍🏻

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha thanks for watching :)

[@hornetfronty]

Not a bad motor actually. My wife loves it. I enjoy driving it but it does need thrashing to get it moving! Could do with extra 30 hp then really would be fun. Handles well and I do like the rare factor. Large boot for such a small car and really clever folding roof design. Check out prices, bargain if you are after 2seater convertible.

[@stephennewell6628]

Got one of these in our site car park today so I was interested to find out more, you know I think this has the makings of a nice little future classic, reare enough to be interesting but ordinary enough to be accessible, suddenly I want one!! Good channel, have now subscribed.

[@stevie007]

Hi Mate 👌👌👌👌👌 just thought I would comment before you richly deserve your 50k subscribers. May I be the the first !!!!!! and may I say no body deserves it more than you mate 🙌🙌🙌🙌 Reg`s Steve

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks Steve! I appreciate the support :)

[@realnomad9750]

I have been watching your videos for quite some time and I have a suggestion for you for future videos while we are under lockdown A video about buying second hand cars A video for how to check used cars or tips

[@steveGee5787]

Commenting on an old vid here.... But I was driving home from work one afternoon and I saw one of these - a 1.2 Turbo Dynamique with 17" alloys - for sale near where I live and it definitely caught my eye - I certainly couldn't remember when I last saw one on the roads! Condition wise it wasn't the best, however having poked around it and getting in the driver's seat (I'm just over 6' 2" and I fit in it comfortably) it certainly planted a seed, which is luckily where this video has come in! I'm definitely tempted to go and get one whilst prices for these are still relatively low. I remember these when they were launched and back then - although I was young and skint - I loved the idea of it, like a French Honda CRX or Ford Puma. I think on the market it was sadly rather misunderstood and that was definitely reflected in its sales.... Still, think the next step is to try and test drive a good 'un and see what happens........

[@stigmoltu-jacobsen]

I agree fully with your ‘findings’. Never heard of the Wind. Excellent review. Thanks!

[@stefanodetullio]

I got this car and i love it! 😁 Cheap, unique and cabrio (targa)!

[@Andy-From-England]

What a lovely little car looks neat thinking about it i think i only seen a couple WELL DONE ON SUBS BY THE WAY

[@HighPeakAutos]

Cheers!

[@jackytruelove5777]

That volume control and other switch locations are probably a consequence of the car being designed for left hand drive. It is Renault after all.

[@RJ-cq8dd]

Love my black 1.6L Wind! Beautiful design and drives great, especially with the roof down.

[@medabuzaki7416]

That’s exactly what my dad used to say the hazard warning switch is big you can’t miss it in fresh cars because they break down a lot and you need quick/easy access to that switch the wind is an eye catching car... nothing else, you gave it a great review tho, 50k subscribers will soon be 100k just keep up the good work mate

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha exactly! Thanks for watching. I appreciate it

[@MrAarongilbey]

I love quirky cars having owned Honda CRXs and CRZ, Smarts, etc so the Wind is appealling to me! It does look a little dumpy and Pepper Pig-esque from certain angles but I love it. I took the 1.2 TCE turbo and the 1.6 naturally aspirated models out for test drives some time back. They do feel different to drive, the turbo feels more fizzy and pulls from lower down but the 1.6 comes alive like my Hondas over 5k RPM will a decent sound too. I didn't buy either as Mat says too I feel Renault didn't quite hit the mark with the Wind. A lower driving position, slightly more power and perhaps a more pleasing interior would have made this car more appealling.

[@Speedystig]

Glad to see someone praising this car (to an extent), I think that we need to buy the quirky cars French manufacturers offer or we'll be faced with bland and dreary vauxhalls littered on the roads!! keep up the good vids Mat!

[@HighPeakAutos]

I agree. If theres no demand for this sort of thing, they will be history

[@ejpurkis]

I’ve just sold my Astra GTC. It was anything but boring. Only the 120brake model, it wasn’t very quick off the mark, the chassis, steering and brakes were incredible - far from boring. I’ve had three Vauxhall’s in the past 12 years. All I’ve spent on them were tyres, 1 battery, and basic service. Am I the only one in the northern hemisphere to have had such a good experience? One tip, keep away from the diesels. Dual mass flywheels, particulate filters etc. I’ve replaced the GTC with a 18 plate 9k mile Volvo V40 T2. I am really enjoying it, but miss the chuckability of the Astra coupe.

[@TheSultan1470]

No, you're not going to buy one, you just think it's fun to look at, then you'll move on.

[@edoardobusterna5944]

Amazing car. I've had it for two years.

[@pdtech4524]

I like the styling, it's different and unique! 😎👍

[@brianfowler1879]

Did they make them from an old computer mouse🤣

[@petecoventry6858]

Probably but they stopped making them in 2012

[@argonautsuk]

I could c it as a future classic

[@chriscoleman1151]

Could we be looking at the RRs replacement? You look quite happy in that! 😉👍

[@HighPeakAutos]

Hahaha I cant imagine a situation where that happen!

[@Ade2bee]

The leather straps on the doors come from the very old British and European sports cars... I remember a lot of the cars are used to driving is a little boy had leather doorhandles and straps to pull

[@KrzysztofBazan]

One note, according to the owners manual seats can be adjustable front back up and down, or maybe only some models do not have up and down feature

[@ktxed]

saw one today never knew it existed :) it's a pretty cute and quirky car

[@johncorner9295]

Ive had the wind all day.love your vids.

[@redyellowpink01]

I really like then because they're weird. If they were more common i don't think I'd like it. Those engines are surprisingly tuneable. The 1.2 turbo is good for 150hp with the right mods. I really really want one

[@GerritVanrossum2993-l9h]

A wonderful driving car 😊 I own a 1.2, with good music it’s fun

[@gavshomebrew]

I might be completely wrong the Renault wind seems simmiler to a Renault version of. of the Ford Street ka

[@Yorkshire_from_above]

It’s so cute I’m in the process of trying to find a good one i love it and can’t wait to get mine

[@PS-si7hn]

Cool little car.... targa top for 4,000 GBP is not bad....looks ok....suspect it would look better in a darker colour....and congratulations on the 50,000 mark...you are without a doubt one of the best “car guys” on KZbin....love your reviews...

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate it :)

[@PS-si7hn]

High Peak Autos truly look forward to your reviews.....wish I lived in the UK....I would come and work for you for free! Ok....the occasional bacon buttie!

[@afiqarman990]

Doug will surely love the car

[@keithparish5863]

I had one, in this spec, sold it and now I want one again!

[@keithparish5863]

Purchased one , same spec as this in black 🙏🙏

[@mosc7pc2]

Renault's attempt at the Honda CRX, only it came 20 years too late!

[@ZEROMotorsport]

Because it’s a french car the hazard light takes pride of place 😂 thanks for your review I’m daring myself to go pick one up from Liverpool this weekend

[@KralSolak]

when roof closed side window shape like Lancia stratos. Its so cool!

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

A neighbour had one, odd though well designed, looks like fun on a budget.

[@JohnLyle]

Great find that. I'd totally forgotten they even existed. I think it looks pretty good and is a proper bargain convertible.

[@Karl_Burton]

I had one. Bumped my head every time I got in. And I'm 5'7''

[@RevGary]

Laughed when you compared it to old Lotus Europa oaft loved those cars back in the day seldom see any now though my neighbour has two genuine original Elans. Anyway top video Matthew blessings to you and your family.

[@mrboomboombaby]

"I'm not sure who the target audience was to be honest" Erm Tania, your local stylist and beautician wants a word.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Haha yes

[@davidb7466]

I think shmee should get one

[@Ballbusteress]

i so love your reviews!!

[@HighPeakAutos]

Glad you like them!

[@codyoverton5771]

I love the Renault wind on how weird and quirky it is I am planning it to be my first car great review

[@daystatesniper01]

Great review as normal Matt ,it seems that Renault had a shed full of parts left over from various models ,told engineers make us a car from the bits ,hence after three years the parts ran out lol

[@phillyleighton86]

Owned one for 2 years was a cracking car most parts are from the twingo or Clio and the seats are adjustable

[@robynhill4081]

Hey I loved the commentary on this I was after a small car. Having watched, not sure I want one now hahaha

[@vxrbandit2527]

Hi Matt, just mulling through your back catalogue as you do ( while waiting for the sub count to turn to 50K ) 😊 Did you realise that in order of views the top four are !!! Volvo V70 ( 304k ) Jaguar XJ ( 308k ) LR Discovery ( 327K ) And Your most viewed vid Jag XF ( 427k ) Best caption was you on the bonnet ( Like a male supermodel) on a Merc S class 👌👌👌👌 The only bad thing about this mate is one of my favourites was your review on the E46 which you purchased for £200 ( (Only 26K ) so it`s no good me giving you advice mate cos I`m bloody useless. As a footnote, I do believe that your intro music on your very first vid ( Sep 2018) was bloody cool and I wish you would make that your opening theme. All the very best and congratulations on 50k mate Steve.

[@HighPeakAutos]

Thanks Steve! I appreciate your support!! :)

[@HighPeakAutos]

I never know which ones will be successful either. Its usually the ones you least expect