Should you enter the Mainframe world in 2023?

[@ipadista]

So funny, when I started out in the mid nineties, everybody told me "avoid the mainframe scene at all costs, it's an obsolete approach and will soon be ending, no point in learning Cobol" Thirty years later, mainframes and Cobol still runs the important parts of the world...

[@wildrap9804]

with no jobs, I regret it btw.

[@helios8459]

i work in healthcare and we still use a terminal for data entry 😭😭

[@AlexEscalante]

@@helios8459 Terminals can be very efficient, that's why professionals use them, even if we have Macs. What is that makes you cry?

[@jhromeror]

Insurance, banking and some retail use mainframes. Still a great architecture for scalability and reliability.

[@jokkadread]

i have been learning a bit of cobol since im unemployed and wanted to do something for fun as the time pass by, since then i learn not just cobol but JCL, REXX, what is TSO and ISPF and... a bit of cobol

[@wb8ert]

I started programming in 1974 on a Wang micro-computer as a college freshman. I was able to move to an IBM 370/158 as a college junior and senior. My computer studies were in BAL, computer security, VM/370 operating systems internal, and how to be an IBM VM systems programmer. VM was a great choice, as it allowed me to work for 40+ years. I'm now retired and can still run VM at home using Hercules.

[@justanotherokie3149]

Oh yes, Wang's were fun then you could work on their VS series and use the exact same Assembly Language as the "Big Iron" IBM's.

[@mitchmccluhan9323]

...been doing mainframe work for going on 53 years. Yes, job security!! I am frequently asked to provide input and/or support to projects within my organization, often from people who just learned about my background and have contacted me for my experience and knowledge.

[@sootedninjas]

I've got a couple of decades experienced and want to revive my IBM system programming career. any insights on how I can accomplish this?

[@stephenkeen6039]

Job security? I worked for National Bank in 2008. After 4 months, the bank was sold out to PNC, I was laid off. Got new job at Fifth Third, split off to new corporation, Vantiv. Job outsourced to TATA. Next job I had, I was outsourced to Accenture. My specialty was in zOS Assembler, I coded Assembler all my life (Yes, I knew COBOL also). But, it would appear that to corporations, I cost too much money. I know of coworkers who lost their jobs due to outsourcing. So, would I recommend Mainframe coding? Nah.. If you want job security, become a plumber or electrician.

[@zoranpavlovic3319]

Haha .. as a senior developer I second that. Hyper production of IT consultants eventually came to maximum (at my point of view). My plumber makes $100/hour and his phone rang all the time during his work in my apartment.

[@nambeesanvakil8972]

True.. this country doesn't value the professionals here

[@iuaj]

In 1999 I was one of the authors of the IBM Redbook CICS/Java. I think today the mainframe should offer more than just JCL and Cobol

[@Gumbier_Than]

You've inspired me. Been a Jr. Endevor Admin for about 6mos now and have been regretting it. I jumped ship from break/fix, desktop support. I got the position for the not-so right reasons, but I love operations and working behind the scenes. I find IBM hard to comprehend but this video is kickstarting fire I need.

[@lencumbow]

Ugh. Run away from Endevor (and from CA especially). There are million better things to do and places to be in the mainframe world.

[@NatLife]

A mainframe is institutionalized logic. Started with Cobol at the University mainframe in the 1970s. Gave the foundation to later manage large corporate projects worldwide. To start working with a mainframe is a strong foundation for persistent success and reputation in IT. Done right, young man.

[@hidlmbigc]

🫡🥲 I took those mainframe experiences and just wow, I am involved with Artemis now and so so many other cool projects. It all started from a green screen.

[@aceitalia83]

I just started a job today on a team managing an IBM Mainframe. This is my first IT job and I feel like this will be great for gaining experience and skills.

[@Obylearns]

What are you background experiences if I may ask?

[@NarrativePilgrim]

How's it going so far?

[@basicprogrammer6147]

You, my friend, are VERY, VERY smart. Congratulations and keep it up as along as possible. And save, save, save.

[@tuzzogetti]

Any updates?

[@jamesquintjr]

The big portions of the mainframe (and there are many!), are Automation, Application development and Scheduler package usage and function. Security, CICS, and DB2 as well. zCloud services... All of these can interface with Java, Uss commands and code, etc. But, learning Rexx and JCL is a huge plus. Also an understanding of migrating mainframe applications and associated elements between competitors products is huge right now. I recommend it! Anything learned on the mainframe applies to so many aspects of other technologies as well. A marvelous system!

[@computerpro123abc]

IBM OS IS BATCH PROCESSING, THAT IS WHY IBM ABANDONED ITS OS 30 YEARS AGO AND WENT WITH LINUX FOR WEB AND CLOUD SERVICES. IBM IS JUST ANOTHER LINUX VENDOR SELLING RED HAT LINUX

[@guilhermemoraes6167]

thanks for your sharing. I am 23 and already have got my first job on mainframe. dunno what to expect, but you give me some wonder.

[@29ibrahimsayed95]

hows everything going on please put some light onto it

[@herbertdaly5190]

Good review of the field. Nice shirt also. - Like the phrases - "This is not that!" - "ISPF is a souped-up command line" - "I think you should lean into it..."

[@Motivatocity]

It's good to hear that many are from mainframe, i am about to compelete my 3 yrs in mainframe tech soon , hope will got to connect with you guys in near future 😊

[@avisorsetti]

Heys, I wonder; Where to learn Mainframe? I mean, I know some COBOL at this point, but COBOL is just a tiny bit of the whole picture, and I'd like to learn more.

[@justanotherokie3149]

Assembly Language Rules!

[@youtubestudy2091]

open mainframe education

[@Therealfaxkellerman]

I just started working on the mainframe in 2024 and the mentorship is excellent. Soon moving on to the cloud

[@billymania11]

Thanks Conner. I'm an old guy and getting back into the mainframe world to finish my career. (I only have a 5 year horizon.) Anyway I purchased the IBM ZD&T product to get my feet wet. I see myself only doing Cobol and DB2.

[@dbcooper7326]

COBOL CICS DL1 DB2 VSAM JCL was my bread and butter for 30 years.

[@SteveDPIves]

Regarding being a front-end web developer : z/OS comes with a powerful Apache-based web server and can run most web technologies. z/OS also natively supports Docker containers.

[@42morten]

Great video really i have been in the mainframe work for 6 months, must say you really a correct about a lot of it! But you make it sound easy to learn everything about 3270 😅

[@mobolaji01]

Starting as a Junior Mainframe engineer in my career, and I'm super pumped.

[@hidlmbigc]

Good luck! While serving my mainframe tenure, I slowly build a CURD (create, read, update, delete) web application on the side in Python Django to keep my skills fresh (over 2 years), while collecting IT certifications, it lead me off platform and I like the problems I am solving a lot better now.

[@Hari2897]

Very insightful. As a relatively new person with just over couple of years experience as Operator . This seems promising.

[@statinskill]

Operator? Like in getting a message "Operator, please mount volume ED209!" ? As in you get that on your teletype printer and then you go and walk to the shelves and pick up a drum of platters marked ED209? And then you insert that drum into an empty disk drive and return to the teletype to say something like "ATTACH DASD DU2A VOLID=ED209,MOUNT=YES"? Finishing up with a "MSG U208 VOLUME 209 MOUNTED, THANK YOU!"? Because that's what an operator mostly does. At the end of the time tunnel into the year 1962.

[@Hari2897]

@@statinskill That would have looked entirely different. Now it's just monitoring the Batch Flow via CA tools and performing IPLs.

[@marcuswilliams3455]

Well, it's rather refreshing to hear about a positive mainframe experience especially from someone who is relatively young.

[@brucehewson5773]

solid job opportunities - continued employment as System Programmer since Jan 1980, still going better all the time. Would love to see younger people getting involved with mainframes, which for me is zSeries processors running multiple Z/Systems all around the world in a global network.

[@cmurph903]

Hey! I have worked as a mainframe operator for 5 years and miss being in the environment. Any tips on how to return to this area??

[@brucehewson5773]

start applying for jobs :) check all the big banks and finance organizations@@cmurph903

[@davidrumond6296]

Hey, Connor! Saluts from Brazil! Just like you, I'm a young guy in the t-rex world. (23 y) I started working with Mainframe last year, I'm a trainee for a company hired by a big bank of Brazil. Has being a hard journey, but I'm enjoying veryyy much. It's amazing to find modules older than me lfmao Let me ask you, my big goal is to move to another country working as a mainframe developer, can you tell me how is the market? For example, my job is fully remote, how about yours? Is this common in the US Mainframe area?

[@DGalind0]

How should someone with just a Bachelor's on computer science should start?

[@aceherdz]

Hey Connor, greetings from Colombia. I'm also a System Programmer in here. how about a video comparation of zowe on vscode and IDZ.

[@reformationfan]

I worked on the IBM mainframe for 45 years and retired 2 years ago. A year after I retired I was made an offer to come back part time because of my assembler knowledge, yes even assembler is still in demand. I have remained retired.

[@biachpiach]

cosidering teaching?

[@hidlmbigc]

These business suits should be punished for not training the next generation. The firm I was with was training a healthy sized co-hort of next-gen sysadmins, but the 30 year old non-techinal consultants at EY / Boston Consulting Group / McKinsey probably told their clients "no need to develop those skills, the mainframe is going away" all throughout the 2000's. Those companies will pay the price for failing to coordinate a rehost of their applications.

[@jaelsuastegui9832]

Hi Connor, I was wondering if you could do a video on the day in a life of a mainframe programmer/systems administrator. Do the programmers work closely with the administrators? Great video! :)

[@hidlmbigc]

Thanks Jael, I will! I will take all the feedback from everyone commenting on this video & reddit and make an even better video. That will be coming soon!

[@AmexL]

@@hidlmbigcI hope it includes lots of getting coffee, getting breakfast, snacks, lunch, and taking lots breaks…oh and replying to email.

[@hidlmbigc]

@@AmexL We call that Managing.

[@AmexL]

@@hidlmbigc haha yea, there’s a lot of that in FAANG.

[@hidlmbigc]

@Jael Suastegui Yesterday I posed a video of what's it like, a day in the life, of a z/OS systems programmer.

[@Death_Metal_Head]

It may sound weird, but I'm wanting to learn COBOL just so I can land one of these niche programming jobs. They all seem secure and pay well. Someone has to work these jobs and I'm trying to segue into tech from a non-IT STEM field. Thoughts on this?

[@computerpro123abc]

FYI: HERE IS WHAT IS IN DEMAND: Microsoft windows server, Red hat linux, sql, c++, c# python, word press, html, microsoft visual studio, jason, java script, apache server.NOT: IBM ZOS.(DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON IBM SOFTWARE) This video is none sense!! GNU COBOL COMPILER IS A FREE DOWLOAD RAINCODE COBOL (FREE) NEEDS VISUAL STUDIO. MICRO FOCUS PERSONAL COBOL(FREE) USE GOOGLE TO FIND THE DOWNLOAD SITES. ALL OF THE ABOVE RUN ON MICROSOFT WINDOWS. TK4 OR TK5(HAS AN EXCELLENT COBOL COMPILER FOR IBM MVS). IT TAKES A YEAR TO LEARN THE COBOL IBM WORLD. OR IT TAKES A YEAR TO LEARN THE MICROSOFT/LINUX WORLD I WOULD GO MICROSOFT/LINUX IF I WERE YOU. MAINFRAME COBOL JOBS DO NOT REALLY EXIST.

[@Lea-pe7jy]

Hi Connor, thank you for sharing your insights, may you please advise which article or paper were referring to written by Craig Mullins?

[@PatrickDKing]

I've built computers my whole life but a programmer I am not. I have half a masters and a bachelors but not in IT related field...how does someone like me jump right into the server and mainframe world and get paid at the same time? Going back to college is not an option for me.

[@hidlmbigc]

I've heard to people getting jobs just of having a Cisco Certified Network Architect certificate.

[@TauvicRitter]

Ispf and TS0 rexx are great. Worked with Netview started automation of VTAM then automated everything starting from IPL.

[@hidlmbigc]

Working though TSO when you know the hotkeys is like playing a piano though my eyes.

[@michaelareay1037]

Agree 100% about the non-mainframe world of Change Management, Asset Management, Configuation Management and documentation being less than it should be, that is always the case and always the case that it makes everyone's life a lot harder, and those deficiences never get fixed once the service is in BAU. Boy would I have loved it down the years if things had been done well and done properly.

[@user-yr1uq1qe6y]

I've never really seen a big company on my resume help me. In fact, a lot of medium and small businesses will assume you're used to only working on a narrow piece of large team projects or assume you're used to heavy waterfall type processes. In the US they'll also offshore anything in a heartbeat if they bring in C suite folks that don't understand IT and actually believe it will save money long term.

[@argonwheatbelly637]

Did a lot of COBOL in '93, and lots of mainframe in 2008. Haven't done much of it since. But hey, job security, right? After all, wait until Y10k.

[@computerpro123abc]

IBM IS NOW RED HAT LINUX COMPANY: THAT SAYS IT ALL!!!!!

[@Therealfaxkellerman]

I’m 37 switching to this. I start in 2 weeks. They are paying to teach me how to be a mainframe systems engineer. Side note i am a Product Owner so i have somewhat of a technical background and i was a front end devout earlier in my career.

[@hidlmbigc]

You can do it! I’d would recommend sticking to the IBM Knowledge Center for the first part of your learning journey. Take the doc from the top down. It’s the differentiating factor between ok support people and the greats. it took me about 18 months to two years before I became truly productive, so hang in there at first, it gets better.

[@Thethingsiwishiknew]

Hello Connor, I am the Managing Editor of Planet Mainframe. We featured this video, is there a way to reach you? Thanks!

[@guildpilotone]

I worked in bank mainframe operations for a decade in the 80s and early 90s. Working for years in the non-IT world, it is abundantly clear when corporations have horrible change control. The data centers I worked in would never alow the kind of poorly tested and verified changes to critical software that I've seen.

[@t13fox67]

I'm also retired from at&t as a computer technician. Worked on one mainframe, alot of minicomputer systems, with Unix, vax/vms, hp9000, 3b2, 3b20s systems. I love command line verses gui's. In fact, I've never really adjusted to gui's like windows. I did like Unix "layers" back in the 80's. Is COBOL still used on the mainframes? Thinking seriously about part time work on these systems if they'll have me at the age of 71. Anyways any suggestions? Thank you for this video.

[@bbuggediffy]

Cobol is used in telecom, banking and insurance, yes. And RPG

[@t13fox67]

@@bbuggediffy that is pretty cool. Thank you so much for letting me know.

[@mitchmccluhan9323]

COBOL is the prevalent language in all medium and mainframe shops, both z/OS and zVSE. I have been involved in mainframe modernization since 1998 (started mainframes in 1970) and have worked across all industries, not just telecom, financial. Also heavily used in automotive manufacture, government, science, education, military, etc. If I can guess the company Connor works for (think Illinois), I was on a year long project there to help them modernize and add efficiencies to there mainframe platforms (tens of millions of LOCs of COBOL and PL/1).

[@t13fox67]

@@mitchmccluhan9323 sounds like cobol is alive and well. I've thought about learning it, even though I'm now retired.

[@t13fox67]

Sounds like you have a very interesting career.

[@risingtalons9490]

Where can I find a community for mainframe as a newbie in the field? I wanna be able to get a job soon and meet other mainframe learners and share knowledge/study together

[@pope1089]

ive just opened cobol no idea where it will go or how long it will take me to learn it. There has to be a demand for it

[@da-voodoo-shuffle]

There are more bodies to throw at the resource problem when they go offshore. The quality isn't there and if they do show promise they move on to bigger and better things. Getting specialised personnel is very hard these days.

[@bears23rely]

When do you think mainframe will become obsolete due to ai or companies diving out work to country’s that pay less, like India, do you think Americans are to expansive for companies, do you it’s a logical reason to worry that outsourcing will becoming a bigger issue

[@surajrajan8580]

It will be very useful if you upload mainframe teaching videos .a

[@jaydev678]

Hi i am from India. I got a job offer in a support role in mainframe technologies should i accept the offer. ?

[@29ibrahimsayed95]

did you accept it

[@straightup7up]

DOes anyone know how much COBOL programmers earn at large banks or insurance companies?

[@hidlmbigc]

$70-90k

[@straightup7up]

@@hidlmbigc That's peanuts, if COBOL programmers are so rare, why do they earn so little?

[@yupp_harish3936]

​@@straightup7upin india it means 65Lakhs

[@tejabethi6021]

​@@straightup7upbecause it is easier to code in mainframe

[@AzorAhai1209]

Great video. Is this role for young people only or it's never late? i mean, is it so hard to begin from zero knowledge?

[@rudycramer225]

The secret is to somehow get in there. Once in your sweet. Everyone learns from zero, so I wouldn't worry about that.

[@straightup7up]

Web programmers are a DIME a dozen. Same goes for Java, Sprinboot, Ruby, Python, C#, Docker, K8, etc., lots of competition. Legacy tech is total opposite. If you're good with C, Cobol, RPG, etc., you can name your own price.

[@29ibrahimsayed95]

can you elaborate?

[@straightup7up]

@29ibrahimsayed95 the number of programmers who understand legacy tech like Cobol, RPG, etc., gets smaller and smaller each year. It's simple supply and demand

[@29ibrahimsayed95]

@@straightup7up can i connect with you on Facebook or Instagram? Lets have a talk

[@hidlmbigc]

Coders are a dime a dozen. Problem solvers who are cross-disciplined in IT and the businesses they serve are the bomb. We need more self-propel operators across so many industries. AI will never be the business operator + IT person for most physical business(e.i manufacturing). The combination of being invested in business operations and having an IT persona makes for good, rewarding work, that is not entirely centered on one's ability to code, but one's ability to operate.

[@straightup7up]

@@hidlmbigc VERY TRUE

[@Rashomon69]

I did mainframe for 12 years. Switched to mobile apps and web dev for 12 years. Now, I’m thinking of moving back to mainframe. Better job security. You don’t have to spend countless hours learning the latest hot technologies to try to stay relevant.

[@isidorapendo3946]

I would need advice regarding career. I hope you could help me.

[@NirmalSilwal]

thank you for sharing

[@yomismo6969]

My opinion is that in a few years they will have to go to retirement homes and beg a few 90 years old to please come back to the area.The AS/400 field is even worse .Many are in their 70s

[@hidlmbigc]

Lol! Since leaving the z/OS world, I have become quite versed in data migrations. Maybe I'll moonlight as a z/OS application rehoster/ green fielder (yes, I like pain).

[@justanotherokie3149]

Connor, you will know when you've achieved Mainframe Guru status when you refer to Mainframes as "Big Iron". That's what we called it when PC's came around. Working on the "Big Iron".

[@bitwize]

"Ain't no way, the security's too tight. The big iron?" "Yeah, but if I were gonna hack some heavy metal, I'd work my way back through some low security, try the back door."

[@castormora1093]

Sure thing. Why not?

[@neroignatiusrosewater]

Working on a mainframe does not always mean you are using cobol. I have been coding SAS on a mainframe for 25 years.

[@the.mr.beacher]

"Leak Code?"

[@gdevelek]

If you think a front-end developer changes colors and flashing lights.... I feel sorry for you, what else can I say....

[@cbbcbb6803]

Mainframes are the back-end of the business world. Microcomputers are the pretty front-end.

[@bears23rely]

What’s your age ?

[@mariobisignani4477]

The approach to documentation, development, and maintenance you are adopting when working on a mainframe would never work in the "real world",. You are basically proposing to go back to a Waterfall type of workflow. I think time taught us that this way of working is highly inefficient and basically against innovation, quick iterations and quick feedback are in my opinion the way to go. Anyway thanks for the suggestion but I think will stick to my boring full-stack job that let me learn something new every day.

[@chetan2954]

I worked as mainframe developer for 2 year's pls pls don't join mainframe technology

[@29ibrahimsayed95]

why

[@jimbojimbo6873]

Mainframe, sideframe who cares make money

[@computerpro123abc]

FYI: HERE IS WHAT IS IN DEMAND: Microsoft windows server, Red hat linux, sql, c++, c# python, word press, html, microsoft visual studio, jason, java script, apache server. NOT: IBM ZOS.(DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON IBM SOFTWARE) This video is none sense!!

[@nambeesanvakil8972]

Mainframes will not die.. but mainframe jobs will.. you wont get job security, no good pay, no permanent jobs .. stay away

[@wewantthefunk73]

No. You're welcome,I just saved you 8 minutes.

[@hidlmbigc]

People need jobs. It’s been a stepping stone for millions around the world.

[@computerpro123abc]

Hot air and nonsense!!!! At any shop YOU GET 2 WEEKS TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE AND START TURNING OUT PROGRAMS OR WEB PAGES!!! NO ONE IS GOING TO "MENTOR" YOU!!!(IF YOUR LUCKY YOU'LL GET A 2 TO 5 DAY TRAINING COURSE). IN MY CONSULTING BUSINESS, I HAVE NOT HAD A MAINFRAME CUSTOMER IN 20 YEARS!!! ALL MY CUSTOMERS ARE MICROSOFT OR LINUX.

[@computerpro123abc]

hMMMM IBM RED HAT COST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS VS DEBIAN WHICH IS FREE, I THINK I'LL TAKE DEBIAN SERVER!!!!

[@lencumbow]

Good stuff. Did systems programming for a few years in the early and mid 80s. Then moved to a development career. I remember when SMP4 was free and then IBM released SMP/E and started charging customers to fix broken IBM code. LOL. One suggestion - As a sysprog, start writing (or study existing) system and JES exits. Anything to learn assembler. Learn about the hardware. (Ficon, channels, processors, lpars, etc). Learn the ins and outs of the binder (formerly the link editor). Learn TCP/IP (no real need for SNA anymore - LOL). Learn RACF.

[@DJL0455]

Your job will end up in a third world country. Become a plumber or an electrician instead. From a retired mainframer who spent 43 years in the profession.

[@dbcooper7326]

Everything gone to India. I spent my life on IBM Mainframes COBOL CICS JCL VSAM DB2 Dl1 etc..

[@computerpro123abc]

MICROSOFT/LINUX WEB JOBS ARE PLENTIFUL IN USA, IBM JOBS ARE IN INDIA.

[@computerpro123abc]

FYI: HERE IS WHAT IS IN DEMAND: Microsoft windows server, Red hat linux, sql, c++, c# python, word press, html, microsoft visual studio, jason, java script, apache server. NOT: IBM ZOS.(DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON IBM SOFTWARE) This video is none sense!!