Should YOU Get a Car With V2L, V2H, or V2G?

[@transportevolved]

*[EDIT: In this video, we misidentified the partner working with GM Energy on a home-charging solution for the Silverado EV. We said it was "SunRun" but in fact, GM Energy is partnering with "SunPower". Given the system installed by Sunrun on behalf of Ford is actually produced by a third party, we stand by our statement that we believe both V2G systems are likely either the same, or very similar. We apologize for this error. [/EDIT]*

[@xsterawesome]

I believe you also quoted the pro power on board at 10 KW when it's actually 9.6 the exact same as the home integration kit. for my uses I'd probably install a 30 amp generator Inlet and just plug up my truck whenever we have a blackout before I would buy the home integration kit, and before I would do that I would just do the exact same thing I did with the generator before I ever had the truck, run extension cords everywhere, cheap, easy, foolproof.

[@transportevolved]

We rounded up - Nikki ;)

[@xsterawesome]

@@transportevolved YOU ROUNDED 400 WATTS!? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO, MAKE US FAIL THIS LAB? Oh, excuse me, I was just having flashbacks to group projects, I think I'm just in the minority of people who would appreciate a couple extra decimal places on every number I see, they just make me feel warm and fuzzy inside whether I need them or not. Carry on.

[@pragmatist165]

This is poorly articulated .. she rambles on and says things like " this technology ".. what the hell are you talking about ? START THIS ALL OVER AGAIN .. BUT REFLECT A LOT B4 YOU TRY ABD TELL US.. SHITE.. YOU ARE STILL BANGING ON.. OMG WHAT CRAP THUS IS

[@Crunch_dGH]

Re: Tesla V2G. Per Electrek 3/22 “Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability” but don’t bc it would impinge on PowerWall demand. However, as battery supply becomes overwhelmed by EV demand, plus with “the competition” going V2G as a marketing default, at some point Tesla will come around & sell PWs (that btw restored power to FL homes after being completely inundated) only to non-EV owners & AFTER V2G standards are normalized. This is one area of disruption where Tesla may be better off not taking arrows in the back.

[@dathes]

V2G is not just for dealing with outages. It also can be used for load shaving by storing power during peak renewable generation. Instead of dedicated boxes, residential solar inverters should support it. Some inverters already support a (240v split phase in th US) port for connecting to generators

[@rogergeyer9851]

Dathes: With current chemistries, BEV batteries do NOT have infinite life. Given their cost, using them a significant number of hours daily will shorten their life meaningfully. That's FAR from free. Just assuming such arbitrage is "free" is false. Is it profitable? It probably depends on a lot of variables, especially one's power prices at home, and there will be an unknown element of risk re how long your BEV battery will last. In the future, BEV batteries might be so good that this isn't an issue (i.e. they'll last several decades). We're nowhere near close to that yet.

[@fgxw8]

All EVs should be made with the capability of providing power back to the grid and your home. Here in Florida, we need an emergency backup system for hurricanes and other tropical conditions. I also think all public vehicles like school buses, -police cars, and fire trucks should be able to provide portable power backups. We should have special "battery" trucks that do nothing but balance the grid and provide emergency power.

[@mangos2888]

But Florida is a shithole state that has no appreciation of themselves at a community or state level....a literal dog-eat-dog environment that values cultural-regulation over intelligent public policy

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Yes, fossil fuel generator trucks will be critical during storm outages so police, fire, utility vehicles, etc. can recharge during the days, sometimes weeks, it takes to restore grid power.

[@northhammerfl]

@@davidmccarthy6061 thar requires preparation, planning, and funding, the three weakest activities of government.

[@williammeek4078]

@@davidmccarthy6061 no, that won’t work as demonstrated time and time again in Florida. Fossil fuels are the LEAST reliable things after a major disaster.

[@williammeek4078]

The trucks will have plenty big batteries on their own. Better to have a solar trailer to provide indefinite emergency power.

[@jimmadger300]

Thank you for all your informative and often out of the box reviews and thoughtful videos.

[@_MrTV]

Just an FYI y’all are awesome and make great content!

[@10lawngnomes37]

I've heard of people getting a permanent outlet for a generator, then using a V2L instead. Basically an analog V2H system

[@Aucourant347]

Thanks for the video I’m en electrician and what I find most difficult is trying to explain to clients the complexities of systems like these.

[@JoePolaris]

This should be a standard feature, support the grid and increase overall efficiency

[@doug1olson]

I bought my 2017 Nissan LEAF 2 years ago specifically because I could get an (outrageously priced) 3.5 Kw inverter to plug into it. That 30KWhr rolling battery was & is much cheaper than any stationary battery. Naturally we have not had any Public Safety Power Shutoffs at my house in California since buying the LEAF, but it does work.

[@supercadet111]

This was one thing i hard disagreed with Elon on. He removed 2 way power because it was underutilized, But by that same token, having a generator would make no sense either. Also, the foresight of VPP's was always there. All these tesla batteries are basically stranded assets now, unless there's a simple retrofit that was kept secret from the world.

[@Snerdles]

My whole plan was to get a solar system on my house and use the car as a home battery when I was home. It turns out with all the government regulations and current vehicles and charging available it will probably be a few years before that becomes a viable solution. For now I'm in a PHEV because even public charging infrastructure in my area is such a mess that dealing with it on long trips is infuriating.

[@rogergeyer9851]

David: Yes, we're definitely in a complex transitional environment, and it will be a LONG time before everyone can have an affordable BEV anyway. The good news is that overall, battery tech seems to be improving rapidly, and prices are trending down overall. So it should just be a matter of time until things like V2G are commonplace and effective to the point of being no-brainers.

[@Alrukitaf]

The long time is so that someone wants to find a way to make money from it.

[@moate]

I think they should ad it as a requirement for 2025( or something) so that makers have time build in and a standard for grid balancing can be added

[@mangos2888]

A possibility everywhere except Texas or Puerto Rico

[@moate]

@@mangos2888 I think they would find it even more useful

[@moatplay]

Thanks!

[@ThKlein-jv9tr]

Thanks for this concise short overview - very helpful to get an idea of the current market situation!

[@TomOHern]

I have a Nissan Leaf. When I am camping, I can just connect a inverter to the 12v battery, and leave the car turned on to accessory mode, and the car keeps the 12v system charged off of the EV battery system. This is my $300 V2L system. I can run both my home fridge and freezer this way during a power outage as well.

[@howardpatrick525]

Dcbel - worth looking into.

[@dcbel]

Thanks for the shout-out Howard! @transport_evolved would love to chat and share more about what we've built!

[@ouch1011]

Personally, I think that every EV should the ability to power at least some home appliances. That was a substantial factor when buying my Ioniq5. It puts out enough power to power my refrigerator, a small heater, some lights and my cable modem, or perhaps a portable AC unit on a very hot day. Almost any EV is capable of VTG or VTH with a basic software update, as long as it came with fast charging capability. Pretty much all EVs connect the DC fast charging pins on the charge connector directly to the battery (through high amp contactors). That means you have a direct connection to the battery through the charge connector. As long as you have an off-board inverter to convert the DC from the vehicle to AC for your house, you could do it. This is all the Ford system does. All the power transfer magic is done off-board from the Lightning, which is why you need to have their specific charging equipment (any why it’s so expensive). The only limitation is whether or not the vehicle *software* supports it, because the vehicle hardware itself is capable of it. I think any sort of VTG should use DC from the vehicle. That way, the cost of VTG would be separate from the vehicle and therefore prevent the vehicle from being even more expensive. If it is done via AC, then the vehicle itself must convert the DC from the battery to AC output. Unless the onboard charger could do this and put out enough power to run a full home *without* substantially increasing the price of the vehicle, I think the cost should be separate and therefore the hardware should be separate from the vehicle. Getting EVs to be less expensive is more important than making them have VTG

[@_MrTV]

I can’t wait to find out how your lightning does on v2h or v2g

[@Hans-gb4mv]

Today, from a personal point of view, I have it in the "nice to have" column. What we need to work towards is smart grids where the batteries of cars are used to help stabilize the grid.

[@williammeek4078]

I live in Florida where good backup power is always a must. I recently employed the somewhat modest 2.5 kWh battery from my electric riding mower to keep my refrigerators going when Ian knocked out my power for 18 hours. Because of, I am building a DYI home solar system that uses an all-in-one inverter-charge controller with an AC input and a relatively modest 15 kWh battery to power home loads. A vehicle capable of V2L would be able charge the battery slowly while the home inverter can start and run the normal household loads including the regular AC. The average American home uses about 25 kWh a day in the summer so a vehicle capable of even just 3 kW of AC V2L will keep the home battery topped up overnight and solar will recharge the car during the day. This also allows the car to be disconnected at night to do car stuff like go get food and water and check on friends and family if necessary without turning off your house. With sufficient solar, this could be maintained indefinitely.

[@dnldnl4880]

Love this channel keep up the great work

[@jackwhiteside5094]

An area with reliable power, I guess that leaves Texas out!

[@sherpa972]

Just experienced a 7 day grid outage from hurricane Fiona, we have grid-tie solar panel system which shut down (yes I know new inverter models can operate without grid power). Our 14 KW propane generator did OK but had to switch lines between electric hot water and heat pump. We are rural so deep well water pump. It was expensive to run (est $500). Current vehicle battery capacity would not last long in this case and then you would be stranded with no where to charge. With today’s technology and costs, looking at home battery storage before buying an EV. Do your minimum power budget, allow for peaks from motors, and plan for outage duration (I am thinking 14 days, cold weather, short sunlight days). my2cents

[@grahamleiper1538]

That's where V2L/V2H wins. Can drive to somewhere with power and transport the power back home.

[@sherpa972]

@@grahamleiper1538 In this particular incident, not sure if that would work, grid power was 2 hours away and 2 hours back. Could charge with the solar panels once the sun shined again (they did stay on the roof). Top up with the generator, not ideal but could work. My goal is to go off grid, since we live by the ocean, some of the newer wind generators may make sense along with the solar.

[@mspalmboy]

All EVs should have V2G and V2L. Why is Elon Musk so opposed to it? Nicki I love your T-shirt - where can I get one? Thanks for another great episode.

[@terryrigden4860]

A very well argued and balanced discussion. I will be waiting a couple of years. Thank you

[@mangos2888]

My last auto purchase was 2010-2011 & the "butts in seats" was definitely the mentality at the time! I got financing with nearly nothing down and < 3% interest rate when I finally purchased in spring of 2011. I wouldn't believe myself today if I hadn't been there in 2010-2011....it seems like a lifetime ago from today's environment.

[@Clearphish]

One of your best! Thanks for this... 😀

[@paulgroth3345]

Being able to power my home from the batteries in my vehicle is my second most important use for an EV. I have lived 30 years or more Off the Grid I now am at 100% solar for my energy source. Thus the solar would be the source for my vehicle and my home

[@jessebrook1688]

Re: throbbing in the night: I was out at my folks' place over winter for a while. I would constantly hear a rumble. I thought it was in my head, but then one day I took a trip around the (country) block. Half a kilometer from our house, there's a natural gas compressor station. That's what I was hearing.

[@MIDTtwo]

best and must up to date video about this topic, great work!

[@juergenschoepf2885]

V2L and V2H I would really like to have for emergency power. However, V2G is something I wouldn't do with my car as it will be a significant burden on the battery. With LFP it might be feasible as they have more charge cycles but with LiIon, no. House storage batteries use a chemistry for relatively low output loads and many cycles whereas car batteries are designed for high charge and discharge currents. Sure, if one changes cars every few years it is only a problem for used car buyers but we drive ours as long as possible and wouldn't want the battery to define the end of use.

[@fgxw8]

If you buy an EV in the near future, it will have a more sophisticated battery than the one you have now. It will be developed with V2G in mind.

[@dathes]

This argument has already been debunked in videos on this channel

[@juergenschoepf2885]

@@fgxw8 But I still don't expect miracles. LiIon has sufficient full cycles for a long car life and LFP at least 5 times as many. However, if I look at the cycle count of my house battery after 5 years it has already around the max for LiIon. However, it is LFP and is charged and discharged at 1/3C which results in a guaranteed lifetime of 10000 cycles (or 10 years). We tested a lot of so called long life LiIon (not capable of high currents) at work and they were bad in 1500-2000 cycles.

[@levibarrett]

Thanks for the great information and perspective!

[@desertdan100]

Good video. BRAVO!

[@xiaoka]

You could get pretty far with V2L and an ecoflow delta pro and some 2nd hand solar panels laid out on the ground behind the garage. Car gets charged from the panels in the day. House is partially powered from the ecoflow after dark. Swap out the plugs and recharge your ecoflow from the car if it gets low late at night.

[@transportevolved]

I think you’re misunderstanding the power requirements ;)

[@Paul-GrnHil]

B2G or B2L must be the endgame for future grid management. I believe the tax credits for EVs should be directed to only vehicles that can support 2 way charging. If I could get the same 40 Amp 220v power from my Tesla as I put in, I could back-feed a generator transfer switch for emergency power that would cover critical loads for hours if not days. I recently spent nearly $20,000 for a 17Kwh battery system for my solar home. What I wouldn’t give to have access to the 70kwh battery in my Tesla parked in the garage.

[@wlhgmk]

I'd be happy to simply have a 220V AC 16A plug point somewhere on my Leaf. (We use 220V in the modern world) With it I could power a welder, electric chain saw or even a jug. And in the case of a grid shut down, I could run an extension cable to my freezer and fridge. Other than powering these two appliances, I can get along perfectly well without power for a few days. We have a gas hob and a log burner on which I can cook on and what a great time to get off the devices and read a book.

[@narvuntien]

I am considering the MG M4 which has V2L but I was confused as to how that related to V2H, thank you for the video. Our issue is that we produce too much solar to fit it into our existing solar battery and we don't want to waste it, so we want to end up being 100% solar for many months of the year.

[@koeniglicher]

V2L does not synchronize with the grid frequency. Instead it provides a microgrid that must be away from the power grid. V2G is a different kind of animal as it needs to sync to the grid frequency, and it must turn off, when grid frequency is not available.

[@dalehulst4128]

Thanks; good analysis. I'm starting a new zero home business, in design phase for the perfect recipe. So far that includes Phius Zero certification and materials selected for low embodied carbon per Builders for Climate Action's BEAM spreadsheet. I'm also looking at V2G along with the solar and battery. Enphase just announced the capability (for 2024), but I was not aware of Wall Box, so thank you. The Ford solution is appealing but narrow/proprietary...like you said, no common standard yet.... Anyway, great video for someone trying to make timely decisions on V2G.

[@stevesedio1656]

I live in inland Southern California, where SDG&E kills power several times a year, a day or more each time, to reduce grid initiated fires. The cost of a back-up battery systems is about the same price as the Ford F150 Lightning. The Lightning battery is 3 to 4 times larger.

[@KentWimmer]

WiTricity touts it's bidirectional wireless charging which allows V2G/V2H. That seems like the most elegant system for V2G because they just as along as the EV is parked over the pad, it can send electricity both directions. Seems to effectively resolve multiple issues.

[@terryrigden4860]

Thank you very clear and informative

[@rod2625]

The new Fisker Ocean will support V2H on all trim levels. Wallbox and Fisker are partnering on supplying Wallbox devices to Fisker owners.

[@jasgap]

I live in the Caribbean, this would be a great plan B for storms

[@Dr.Gehrig]

Great video, loved it. I have a Chevy Bolt and would love it if I could soft or hardware update to make my Bolt VtoG. VtoG capable is a requirement of my next ev, along with solar capability as well.

[@grantlouw3182]

Yes vehicle to home is essential in the modern world.

[@Anya-Prime]

The idea of V2G is very appealing but as you mentioned it’s hard to get on board right now. Sometimes it’s almost more tempting to go off grid instead with solar and a small battery backup with V2H that gives me the option to go fast chargers to top up my total capacity in case of solar deficiencies. But I also know that mass adoption of V2G will be better for the environment by smoothing out grid power dips and surges, making renewable energy easier to integrate, reducing terrible peaker plants, and because it’s much easier for most people to set up than personal systems. Chances are I’ll go V2G someday but I still love the idea of energy independence if I can afford it. Also I can’t wait to sell my generator. Ugh, gotta fuel stabilize it soon and maybe even clean the carb on it again…

[@moony2703]

'cutting edge' Pretty much, I took one look at the cost of a VTH charger in Australia and straight away realised that it was basically where solar panels used to be and that they are going to need time to come down. I think what's going to be super interesting is what businesses do with this since some of them have been testing this tech. Granted in a sunny place like Australia daytime businesses may generally be better off investing in more solar panels first rather than VTG rather than say a country that used wind more and had more price fluctuation throughout the day, although... maybe with solar it could still help smooth out the costs during the day in the morning and afternoon when the duck curve is lower. Say run a business partly from evs in the morning and evening and then top up the evs at midday during the solar peak. Basically if there is any public data on potential usage trends and insights people have noticed when using VTG that would certainly be interesting for you to cover at some point, particularly in regards to fluctuating but still fairly predictable renewable power like solar and the duck curve.

[@NeilBlanchard]

I would *love* to have V2G (or at least V2L) on our ID.4 1st Edition.

[@shanefiddle]

I want this so much. I hope at some point a clever engineer figures out how to unlock the battery for every EV ever made at provide a vehicle to load kit and offers a kit for full DC quick charging amperage for the vehicle.

[@williammeek4078]

What will probably happen that is just as good is the old car batteries will be upcycled to home batteries once the car body rusts out from under it and new cars will be V2G capable.

[@1gsbrogio]

Many thanks

[@RyanOttawayMartin]

Happy to Test out the R1T with Quasar in the near future-ish. :) assuming Quasar is 'backwards' compatible with the 400v system.

[@PaulNelson392]

I would like to get an EV with the V2L capability of the F150 Lightning. I already have a generator transfer switch installed in my home, so I could just plug the 240V outlet into it to power those circuits. The F150 Lightning is far more truck than I need, so I’m hoping that they come out with a Maverick Lightning with good range and V2L capability. That would probably be the perfect vehicle for me.

[@Muppetkeeper]

Hi Nikki, from what I’ve seen of the MEB data, only the 77kWh or above battery packs will support V2G, it won’t be on the 58kWh models.

[@LesterSuggs]

I feel V2G is more important than FSD. (lazy people rising up in 3.. 2.. 1..)

[@maurice3590]

I honestly believe there should be a general (international) standard like CCS that are made for VTG, in my opinion its urgently needed. Also this is one of the big disadvantages of Tesla which nobody talks about, this is possibly because it is still early AND not very well integrated nor is there any standard. Tesla could have lead the market in that too. Courious to see what's still comming!

[@chrisminnoy3637]

There is, it is ISO 15118-20. It was finalized in March of this year.

[@EcoHouseThailand]

New MG EVs have V2L as do Great Wall Motors, BYDs and Netas. I have posted a video on my channel on how V2L can be integrated into a solar inverter.

[@jai.shah007]

I don't think the answer is complicated.. I think its a total no brainer.. each and every car should have a bi-directional system in it.. and leave it up to the "box" (eg. smart inverter, or some sort of home power mgmt system), to make it either V2G or V2H.. this is because not every state in every country would have the grid infra to support such bi-directional flow of electricity.. in such case, we should still be able to use car's battery to run the house..

[@glenngarry4750]

Great information!

[@koeniglicher]

More current V2L vehicles from around the world, and their V2L wattage: Honda-e =>1.5 kW (inside the car) Hycan 007 MG 4, MG 5, MG ZS EV, MG Marvel R => 2.3 kW Skyworth EV6 => 3.1 kW PHEV like: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, Eclipse Cross via their CHAdeMO inlets.

[@donaldespeut2042]

It is relatively simple to install a VTL system to replace your stinky generator, provided your EV is capable of this feature. An interlock to isolate the grid is an ABSOLUT MUST. Know the capacity of your VTL capable EV and plan your loads to fall within the capacity of your vehicle. There are a number of on line explanations on how to accomplish this.

[@Sailorman6996]

My latest opinion is V2L of course. Possibly V2H too. But for now I would not invest any in equipment in my house or a car that are related to V2G.

[@jpg0927]

Lithium ion batteries in evs are optimized for weight, not for constant charging/discharging. Would v2G not shorten the life of your car battery? LFP batteries may go some way toward alleviating this condition at the cost of some additional weight. Maybe residential backup could be managed by less expensive batteries where weight is not an important factor.

[@williammeek4078]

No. The main killer of EV batteries is heat and as pointed out in the video, a house will only draw a small fraction of the rated power of the automotive battery. It won’t be noticeable when just used in emergencies and is unlikely even be noticeable if used regularly for years.

[@weaktwos]

I just test drove the ID4 at a local dealership, and they don't know anything about V2L or V2G for the ID4. I"m not saying you're wrong, but I am saying it's not being communicated by at least one salesperson. But I would love it. Also, with regard to the Tesla power wall, a friend of mine had a terrible experience with them. He has had to replace the inverter 3 times.

[@chrisminnoy3637]

True, the sales people at Volkswagen/Audi/Skoda have no clue, but that is on purpose by Volkswagen. They want to keep the lid on any info about this until it is finally released, which is a common practice in car land. But all the vehicles build from 2022 onwards have the car ready to do V2G from hardware side. The thing that is missing is software and a good charger ofcourse. With all the issues around availability of electronic equipment it is hard to tell when it will get available. I hope it won't be long, as Europe can use such a technology very well right now with the war with Russia.

[@elmojito]

I think that V2G and V2L are both quite good but V2G problematic. For V2L is more limited in scope but still valuable outside home and in case of emergency as a limited aid for keeping food, medicines and medical equipment working via extensions. V2H, if treated properly very helpful in areas were power loss is posible. Installation should not be that much of a problem if treated with a separate critical loads panel to ensure you have more than enough output capability - again keep critical elements in your home working. Remember that depending on the cause of the power loss, like a hurricane, it could take several days so your stored power is not unlimited like in a generator. Las V2G, unless utilities they pay you dearly why would you degrade your battery's life to just help power companies. They are not famous for being your friendly neighbor.

[@MDP1702]

Obviously for V2G there always needs to be a compensation to make it worth it, though the degradation to the battery due to V2G would be minimal to unnoticable, considering the battery would only be very limited discharged (compared to driving). Ofcourse the utility could offer a flat tariff/kWh put back on the grid, or you could do it with a more flexible payment scheme whereas the electricity rate differs per hour (based on demand vs supply) and you just charge during low cost and discharge during high cost, getting back the difference (maybe with a slight reduction for using the grid). Obviously this is just something that still needs to be worked out and can depend from region to region/gridoperator to gridoperator.

[@elmojito]

@@MDP1702 I hear you but from the experience of someone that has a solar storage battery already you can feel you help out - or helo yourself out. For that you only need to use your car's battery as I use my solar battery today and discharge when rates are high and pocket all of the savings. Also, you can decide to use it when it is convenient to you not them. Probably a much simpler setup than one where someone else controls your battery. Charge your car with solar and if you are a large user you probably pay for the car with the electricity savings. Just my 2 cents.

[@eddiegardner8232]

I don't mind connecting solar panels to the grid to support it during daytime high demand times, but I have no intention to let the power companies cycle and degrade my car batteries to avoid buying their own. Car to home in an emergency is a different matter; happens so infrequently that it isn't a battery degradation issue, and makes more sense than deploying batteries to sit and wait for an outage that rarely comes.

[@ChrisBigBad]

The money spent on the cabling will stay with your house and is independent of the power-source. You'd need the same with a stinkin' generator. The only thing that might change is the wallbox. Which you can try to sell with the car to the next owner. Pluggable wallboxes will ease the "selling with the car" thing, but will probably only be possible with grid-tie (only give power, if there is already power on the socket - see balcony-solar PV) but not for island-systems (send power into a dead socket), as those might give you a nasty shock, when you unplug them and have live prongs in your hands.

[@davidcassidy2944]

MG also does V2L on the MG4 MG5 and the ZS. No official words on them doing V2G.

[@staceylee4071]

With the advent of Hybrid working, my car will now sit on the drive for two to three days a week without moving. I would love my car to be a 58kWh battery system for the house to supply all my daytime energy needs when I am home.

[@scubajoe]

Would be even better if you had solar for free daytime energy and all your surplus went to the the car for free nighttime energy as well!

[@D0li0]

At 7:02 excellent PTO joke.

[@ab-tf5fl]

While I think equipping EVs with basic power outlets is a great idea (and should be nearly universal), I'm somewhat bearish on V2G becoming widespread, mostly due to cost. If you want backup power for your home, getting a car with 120V AC power outlets and running extension cords to power the most essential equipment seems like a much more economical solution. It's not perfect (you'd have to use portable lamps instead of ceiling lights, and it won't run your home air conditioner), but it's cheap, and for a few hours of power outage, probably good enough.

[@PygKLB]

You’ve described my home’s generator setup, so substituting an EV for a gas generator seems like a simple upgrade.

[@D0li0]

At 7:45, IDK that Elon is an opposed, more soured by the original roadster having but no one using it, which I consider being too early for V2G, throw back to the t-zero feature... Worth a mention? When Tesla does, I expect a vehicle to power wall add on as a V2G gateway, shouldn't be difficult for them given their Autobidder and such.

[@beachcrow]

Seems a stationary battery system makes more sense for a home. What is the installed cost of the "bleeding edge automagic V2G transfer box" compared to stationary battery system? Installed batteries will add to the homes value while a V2G install could be useless if your next EV is not from the same manufacturer.

[@transportevolved]

A single Tesla Powerwall costs more than Ford’s integration system. We’d need ten to match the theoretical maximum output of the truck - Nikki

[@beachcrow]

@@transportevolved Just Googled power wall cost: $11.5k for 1, $16.5k for 2 installed (2=27kWh). What is the transfer box installed cost and are you then locked into the "Ford ecosystem" for your next truck? Seems a big problem if you can't drive your truck in a power outage while it's supplying your house.

[@transportevolved]

@@beachcrow You're not making like for like comparisons here. I'm talking *personally* about my own situation. We'd need ten Powerwalls for the same capacity as the truck. Additionally, when there's a powercut it's usually because the weather isn't good enough to drive (snow, earthquake etc). Nikki.

[@Fusako8]

Honestly, I'd want both. My LiFePO3 battery walls should get installed next week. (Getting 2, forget what the combined capacity is, merely that it will run our house at peak usage for 3 days.) Doesn't help me, however, if I need to go out and help my best friend who isn't as lucky as me. Or any disabled friends I help look after. Frankly I'd love V2G to be a standard fixture on homes in disaster prone areas like, oh, Forest Grove Oregon.

[@colinandyas8781]

You can always make a V2L system by buying a 12v inverter. And using that to power small electronics. Just make sure you know what the onboard DC to DC converter is rated at and make sure you have good quality 12v connections as the current will be high.

[@transportevolved]

I think you misunderstand what our needs are - Nikki ;)

[@scottmcshannon6821]

V2G school buses would be great during the summer when they are idle 24/7. during the school year? the grid needs extra power from 3 pm to 9 pm, school buses work 3pm to 6 pm, at least. if you use the battery then to power the grid, how much power is available since the bus is coming straight off the road, if its powering the grid until 9 pm, it needs to recharge between 9 pm and 5 am, which is workable. if you right size your batteries when you order your buses, how much charge is left in them at 6 pm? emergency use of your primary transport as power station means you are walking everywhere during power outage. when the emergency happens you need to get right home, with a fully charged battery, and stay home until the emergency is over. are you able to do that.?

[@grahamleiper1538]

Like the idea of V2L, not so keen on V2G as LiFePO4 a better battery technology for that.

[@fgxw8]

When I go camping with my Aptera, all I want is a place to plug in my coffee maker!

[@Crunch_dGH]

Re: Tesla V2G. Per Electrek 3/22 Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability but don’t bc it would impinge on PowerWall demand. However, as battery supply becomes overwhelmed by EV demand, plus with “the competition” going V2G as a marketing default, at some point Tesla will come around & sell PWs only to non-EV owners & AFTER V2G standards are normalized. This is one area of disruption where Tesla may be better off not taking arrows in the back.

[@enzodarro179]

YES or bi-directional charging.

[@MarkLLawrence]

I prefer V2H that I control. I'll be getting the Cybertruck which isn't quite V2H, but close enough with all of it's outlets.

[@casperhansen826]

V2L could be nice, mostly because the electricity is quite expensive from 5-9 pm when cooking etc. and very cheap from 1-6 am. My power supply is very stable and the number of blackouts is very small, maybe once a decade

[@Jcewazhere]

Is there a kit out there that will let me one day take the battery out of my Bolt, bolt it to the wall in my garage, and use it for home power? If not why not? Seems like powering a house would be a lot easier on the battery than powering the car, especially the way I drive. Even if the pack's at half capacity when I finally get a new car that's still 30kWh of free storage that'd otherwise end up in a recycling center or landfill.

[@bigtenpochet]

For now, most EV owners should be concerned that additional charging and discharging cycles on their EV battery will accelerate their battery degradation. I personally am not ready to trade this off for backup power from my car or minimal electric savings. Everyone’s situation is different of course. We have lost power for more than 2 hours here at our house maybe 5 times in 22 years, and our time of use price rate differentials don’t make having a battery backup system to put power into the grid during peak usage periods just isn’t cost effective. Other homeowners in other locations might have different rates or higher power outages occurrences to make it desirable.

[@transportevolved]

This myth was busted in the video. ^Kate

[@cjonesplay1]

You can also get Solar with a Battery.

[@bakerjr12]

Why not just use stationary storage? I'm thinking about what happens when you aren't home when the power drops out. If you have a house full of hungry equipment, wouldn't you want to have a home system paired with you solar system?

[@judebrown4103]

Yeah, I must say I counselled that advice on Nikki's last video but the little monkey is obviously dead set on being in the vanguard again, bless her. I know she has convinced herself it's for the channel but Murphy's law says the power will go down when her wife needs it and she's off somewhere in the truck. Plus the extra expense for the inverter thingy doesn't make sense either but I don't think dear Nikki is ready to be swayed on the matter. No offense intended if you see this Nikki, I'm just older and more cautious that's all. 🙏👍😊🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇬🇧

[@bakerjr12]

Personally, I am lucky. Our power is very reliable, in the last 14 years only once has my power been out for more than 2 hours. That was due to a hurricane, so yeah.

[@transportevolved]

Because the cost. A Tesla powerwall setup with the same capacity as the F150 lightning would cost more than the truck did…. - Nikki

[@judebrown4103]

@@transportevolved ah, thanks Nikki. I was forgetting just how much power you actually need and calculating for ordinary usage!👍😄 Sorry, paused to feed doggo... Also I got the impression that the set up you needed to make it work was more expensive than a home battery...and I stress I was thinking of *a* home battery. Another thing I keep forgetting is how different things are for you chaps over the pond. I get the feeling you have only Tesla powerwalls for home storage whereas we have a multitude of different makes and sizes of batteries to choose from with the capability of adding more when necessary. Plus smart tech from MyEnergi devices which coordinate it all with the grid. Am I right there isn't anything like that over there? There's no way I could afford any of it any time soon, mind! But I did get the electric car so that's something. 💚👍

[@Fusako8]

@@judebrown4103 If you aren't intending to offend, perhaps you don't call the presenter a monkey? Or condescendingly call her "Dear Nikki"? Toeing the line a bit far there. Also if Nikki is half as sensible as she seems, she already has UPS for her sensitive equipment (One doesn't get a rackmount without it). And as pointed out elsewhere, the V2H inverter is essentially the same thing as a solar or generator inverter and intertie.

[@tomarmstrong1281]

YES, YES, AND YES.

[@kbparis]

Unrelated to this video, can you cover the supposed reports on TV concerning EV batteries catching fire after being submerged in sea storm serge during Hurricane Ian in Florida. Specifically reported as an issue on Sanibel Island FL on TV a few days ago. Is this an issue EV and battery makers never tested or planned contingencies for? Maybe another sensor is needed to 'dump' the entire battery load when the car/battery is submerged or other corrosion issues occur.

[@transportevolved]

We actually have something planned on this... ^Kate

[@TheSimplecanadian]

Well done! Hopefully Tesla will get on board in a year or 2

[@Richardincancale]

Lack of V2G interface standards make it too soon to be feasible yet. V2L is a good compromise allowing both backup power during outages and even stocking solar energy - albeit that you need to manually manage such an arrangement. My MG has 3kW V2L which is enough for most usage, not for huge loads but enough to keep the lights, TV and microwave alive.

[@williammeek4078]

If you get an all-in-one charge controller/inverter with an AC inout and a modest home battery and some solar, the solar can charge the home battery and car during the day and the home battery can run household at night and when cloudy, the car can keep the home battery topped up.

[@chrisminnoy3637]

Which lack of standard? ISO 15118-20 is THE standard

[@Richardincancale]

@@chrisminnoy3637 That’s true for the interface from EV to EVSE - the bigger problem is a standard interface from the EVSE back to the grid operator. It’s no good Ford etc. having their own proprietary EVSE control interfaces, the grid operators need a standard way to control the EVSEs to cause them to stock energy or discharge at the right time.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

you have to plan for the emergency, be ready, it takes an electrician and about 10,000 to setup. if you were the type to plan ahead for an emergency and had the money, you would already have home solar with battery backup.

[@olivergunn2796]

Are time of use electric tariffs not really a thing in America?

[@iHelpSolveIt]

I disagree that clients having a Tesla battery powerwall would be a "cross shop" clients can and do do this anyway and it drives Extra purchases of more batteries. As someone who is used to blackouts I love the idea of V2G but i would have a two tier system, 1 part would ensure that my home would always be powered then i would have the V2G to help the grid.

[@bobwitmer2492]

I guess that I’m Shouty Bob but I believe that the battery concern is the additional cycles that it puts on the battery if you’re using the batteries to sell power back to the energy company. This does impact the battery life and needs to be considered. If you’re just using it for emergencies then I question it as the best solution. If you have an extended power outage do you really want to drain the battery on the vehicle you may need to leave the problem area? I agree with Elon on this, investing in stationary storage designed for the cycling is a better solution.

[@dathes]

This argument is debunked at the end of this video. I checked the battery warranty of the Kia EV6 and it does not have considerations for V2L usage

[@transportevolved]

THIS ^

[@transportevolved]

Not sure you watched this video all the way through ;) Nikki

[@kdenyer1]

Great idea v2h great idea. May buy second hand car take wheels off and run house. 🤔🤔

[@lyfandeth]

I know folks in hurricane country who would use their car for power figuring the grid would be back up in 2-4 days. By which time their battery would be too depleted to evacuate tem, when they found out power might be down for another week or more. Personally I like the idea--but I think it is a trap for the folks who can't do that math.

[@tommays56]

The V2L / V2G usage has to be clarified it the Warranty

[@tommyjakobsen5504]

only V2H are useble for home power, V2G is a bennefit for the Grid owner.. Therefor V2G is NOT attractiv iof you have Solar setup. and V2L is only for camping and stuff like that.

[@eamonstack4139]

Don't tell the utility, I tapped the 400v DC lines in my 2012 Leaf and have an inverter in my car for V2L and another in my house for V2H. Low cost solution - my EV2F to Putin!

[@barry28907]

I'm surprised that you didn't touch on cost per kWh of capacity. It seems like it would take 5 Tesla Powerwalls (@ 13.5 kWh each) to reach the capacity of a typical sedan battery. That's something like $40k worth of Powerwalls! It's admittedly not an apples-to-apples comparison ... but it sure seems like V2H is a good deal!

[@williammeek4078]

Especially with the Bolt being $27k next year with its 65 kWh battery.

[@LafemmebearMusic]

Lately I’m just dissatisfied disappointed disillusioned with the US charging network. Honestly I’m genuinely thinking of selling my ev and going back to a plug-in hybrid. It just seems like auto makers money grab and got us all to buy these vehicles that end up leaving you stranded…

[@tommyjakobsen5504]

No, there is no point in V2G because you pay to put power to grid, V2H you use you power by your self. Best and most practical way