Should you upgrade a budget laser cutter?

[@makeorbreakshop]

K40 or Glowforge, what would you pick?

[@nestorkropotkin8952]

I am still on Team K40. Cannot easily upgrade the Glowforge to a more powerful laser while cutting a hole in the side of the K40 will let you put in a bigger tube and a more powerful power supply is easy, too. Still going to watch the video, would like to ensure that I did not miss anything in the last two years of hyperfocused exploration into CO2 lasers. :D

[@nestorkropotkin8952]

Yep, still have a K40 in the plans for my makerspace after watching to the end. Of course, I have the 3d printer(s) and electronics hobby experience as well as some metal fabrication so expanding the K40's cutzone with a relocation of the electronics, removal of the separation wall inside the case and an improved gantry system along with potentially running a Raspberry PI for wifi connectivity/control will have me at still less than the 50w CO2 and significantly less than the Glowforge. The Ruida does make the 50w interesting but my planned location involves going down a flight of narrow stairs so the form factor would not work for me.

[@benjaminbrewer2154]

K40.

[@derekwright2388]

K40 all the way with a cohesion 3d board, then a better extraction and a decent air assist

[@HennerZeller]

K40 of course.

[@williamsteele]

The exhaust fan should be at the exhaust end of the tube... that way you're never pressurizing the tubes... you're always pulling air into it. The reason for this is so that you never push smoke out of the ducting... you're always drawing air through any leaks in it. (It's always a negative pressure, instead of a positive pressure, in the tubes.)

[@sotm2]

Yes and no, depends on how well you want to evacuate the laser bed of smoke!

[@jamesblackwell722]

After a lot of research I went the modified K40 route. I upgraded lenses & mirrors, added air assist, amp meter, better temp displays and a better internal and external fan. I also expanded the bed area by cutting down the exhaust shroud. I did run through a major tune-up and alignment to really dial everything in before use. I didn't bother with a chiller, a 5-gallon bucket serves me just fine. I also haven't bothered to upgrade the controller board, the original works just fine for my workflow with K40 Whisperer. I mainly use it for cutting plastic or plywood parts for prototyping rather than engraving, so the stock controller is fine. All in, it easily came in under $800 to have a very versatile machine in my arsenal that I can add and upgrade to later if needed.

[@benzeeno8150]

I went with K40 and modded it a bunch before I even ran it. 6” exhaust fan, lightburn w/ cohesion board, upgraded nozzle with 2 gallon air assist compressor, honey comb bed w/jack, LEDs. My total cost was $1,050 USD including price of EBay k40 laser. I love it.

[@makeorbreakshop]

Very nice!

[@opieapplejack52]

Great video. Especially since you ended talking about the 50W. Thank you!

[@benjaminbrewer2154]

The k40 I purchased was sub $400, had amp gauge and a much bigger fan stock. K40 woodwhisper by scorchworks. Metal airassist (I've melted a 3d printed) Agree with the lenses and mirrors. The other upgrades are negligible. Frozen 2litters into a 5gallon bucket keep the heat off the tube.

[@Graeme758]

Great video. First point. Most K40s come with kill switch on the lid now. Second, Meerk4t will allow a lot more flexibility to your laser power, I think it does fast switching rather than varying the power.. It's not in Lightburn territory but it's way better than Whisperer and it's free. Third, the fan is upgraded, most now come with a perfectly adequate fan, rather than that dire fan on earlier models. Remove the internal ducting and you have really good extraction. This means that you will only be spending around $100 for air assist and mirrors to get a very workable machine that competes with the Glowforge on most jobs.

[@edp72]

That's a great breakdown! My shop doesn't have wifi, and I dislike being locked out of modifications, so Glowforge was already off the table before I hesitated at the price tag. I think I'm going to do a 50W, put off on doing the board/camera/chiller mods to begin with, and see if I can get the machine to pay for its own upgrades as I go.

[@Botmatrix]

Thank you! This confirmed the research that I’ve done! I’m likely just to go for a 50W unit which saves both money and time. I’m a maker so it’s not a big deal for me to do some DIY adjustments but I don’t want to do a ton. I really don’t like the WiFi locked software idea so that instantly killed the Glowforge for me. 50W is a good compromise.

[@derekwright2388]

I used a 50w for about 3 years, upgraded to a 100w in January, but the 50w works well for most jobs,

[@makeorbreakshop]

The 50W is the laser I’ve spent my own money on ;)

[@judyborland2964]

I purchased a 50w first. I have lightburn. I am not comfortable upgrading equipment yet. I purchased a Glowforge and have made tons of stuff. Now as I get more comfortable, I use Lighburn to modify files and prepare them for cutting. I will be using my 50w as soon as I get the camera aligned and cut larger items. I do have exhaust fans, a water cooler, autofocus upgrade (not installed), I will get to it. I am just learning.

[@bgwildlife7715]

Im using a K40 unit for about a year, i did chance my glass tube few weeks ago and also all mirrors and now the laser work like a brand new. Im happy about it its a cheep invest and is total worth!

[@justindavis7400]

I have 2 k40s. One with cohesion/lightburn and 1 with stock/k40 whisperer both have done many projects but need more work area. Working on building my own as I want close to a 12x24 work area.

[@pgabrieli]

check this out: kzbin.info/aero/PLT2B-jiRa_P4blv69gIPtibwSavtNRHN4

[@ClarenceDeMars3]

i want at least 12x24 myself. we had a commercial 20w at the maker space at work with 12x24 and i got used to the consumables in that size. i really wish there were valid options to extend the x axis

[@DanBlomberg]

A comparison like this is how I got away from the K40 and to a 50W larger laser. I'm so glad to have that since the z height has been great to do larger items, my roller, etc. I did similar math and am very glad I skipped the K40.

[@osgeld]

Thank you, I am in the market soon for a K40 but I really wanted to see a "maxed out" unit vs a commercial one. I have some electronics knowledge to do all the upgrades so I will still be going that route for now. But I do see where the money goes

[@makeorbreakshop]

Glad I could help

[@Chaos_God_of_Fate]

Got a Sculpfun S30 Pro- 10 watt diode a few Weeks ago. I really like it but I am already wanting something more powerful! Been thinking about getting a k40 to tinker with once I get a little more stuff done with my current laser- I love customizable hardware so I see that part as a plus, you get to know your hardware by upgrading/fixing it which makes any problems in the future much easier to diagnose and fix easily, without that understanding a Person often ends up just throwing out perfectly good things- I dumpster dived for a while and the stuff you find is really crazy sometimes- it's just a bit too inconsistent to be feasible where I live. I LOVE this laser stuff though! Wish I'd gotten into it a long time ago!

[@jesselopez862]

OMTech. I currently have the K40. Only upgrades I've done are air assist and added a chiller. I'm hesitant to do anymore upgrades because I want a more powerful/bigger machine within the next year or so! I'm thinking at least a 70W.

[@woodwaker1]

Good review and lots of great information. I had a little Elksmaker diode laser and realized it could burn wood and leather. I switched to 3D printing and that opened a new world. I still follow lasers, but if I got back into it want something that could cut and engrave metal. Your channel helps get me up to date, but the prices are a lot more than a 3D printer that can really do something right out of the box.

[@willkinder1293]

Kind of like this format as an educational product comparison video. For hands on actual system testing, I prefer the Shop Video format. Oh and to answer, what I would pick! If I could afford it! It would be Glow Forge.

[@williamrodriguezmswlcsw8119]

I dig the new format, but seems that the costs were a bit flated. In my experience, maxing out the k40 can be done for about $750 that includes upgrading the board which only costs me 50 dollars for a grbl off line board with wifi and touchscreen, along with air assist, water cooler, dope digital panel, one button emergency shut off and of course some RGB to wrap up the whole thing and give the laser that, "looks way more impressive and than it really is" look.

[@christopherblake88]

I like this format but I originally subscribed because I really appreciated how you demonstrated while you explained “laser cutting/engraving.” A+ either way…

[@makeorbreakshop]

Thanks for the feedback, I’m planning a full upgrade video (actually doing it) but I wanted to put this out there since people were asking from just the cost side of things

[@alexruedi1995]

K40 because it does the job for 500$. Maybe a stronger and fully fledged one is the perfect 2nd laser cutter. Thanks a lot for the video

[@jamsomito]

@makeorbreakshop - great video, thanks for putting this together. The K40 and MF1220 are looking much more attractive at this point in time. Glowforge prices are up $1000 since you put this together. Bummer.

[@paulszudzik9588]

My first laser was a K40, and it did well. I upgraded to a XM-1060 100 watt Reci tube laser ONLY because of the bed size, and more power to cut in one pass .. I use LightBurn on the Xm-1060. I make artistic wood boxes, so this worked well for that. K40 did etch glass, stone, cut leather and wood, and engraved fairly decently... The only upgrades I did was a better exhaust, diamond grill bed and a new Lens .. My son owns a Glowforge. He doesn't use it 3% of what I use my Xm-1060 or even the K40! I think the K40 with the dsp, exhaust, mirror, lense and new controller ( with Lightburn ) is all you need for more than casual use of the K40.

[@glennmartonic6376]

k40 whisperer was a game changer for the k40...i now have built my own 600x400 co2 laser using the k40 control board, 45w spt laser.....have had for 3+ years.....spt makes great tubes.....they are actually tested with info like peak power......made motorized bed out of 1x1 steel tube and 3d printed parts....total cost was $900....well worth it as its paid for itself many times over

[@krash20]

Hi, first of all congrats on the video. Was really nice to watch. My K40 is on its way. I have also an Xtool D1 which is not able to cut transparent acrylic. Probably if I would have the space and money for a bigger laser then it would be at least a 9060 which is actually a 100W laser. Vevor has one for as low as 3200 Euros including a Ruida controller. But that one is really a huge machine weighing 420 pounds.

[@gga3053]

Very helpful information. I'm considering these very options. You just saved me a ton of work. Thank you!

[@makeorbreakshop]

Glad it helped!

[@chrtesch]

I think i will start with the 50w version after seeing your Video instead of buying the k40. Good comparison. Thank you so much

[@ascottdew]

I checked out your link for the glowforge but when I hit up the chat bot with a question I waited and waited and finally I had to go do something else.

[@Owen322]

Ty for comparisons

[@plasmar1]

neighbor threw out the housing/box for a K40 and now here we are contemplating building it or tossing it:P(only really wanted to salvage the plexiglass/plastic as I knew roughly what it was)

[@johnmarksbury1633]

Great rundown. I bought my K-40 about 2 years ago and did all of the mods. Loved it, but wanted a bigger work area and bought a 60 watt "Red and black" unit from ebay for around $3000 and have never looked back. The only thing I had to add was a ma meter. I gave my K-40 to my daughter and she is having a lot of fun with it. Great review, thanks for the info.

[@powersave2]

Shucks you got me interested in the 50W one. Wish you would have gone more into which upgrades are unnecessary on the 50W vs the 40w to get near glow forge. It almost sounds like you don't recommend any upgrades but no biggie more research for me!

[@LaserLife67]

I would love to see a comparison between the K40 with all its upgrades to the new Atomstack diode x30 Pro 33w laser that's coming out.

[@opieapplejack52]

It looks like the only mid-level OmTech unit that is ready for Lightburn is the 50W. I wish the 55W with larger bed was Lightburn compatible out of the box… unless I’m missing something…?

[@opieapplejack52]

I received an email from OMTech that all the lasers 50W and above are Lightburn compatible.

[@jonathansmith7766]

This is the video I've been looking for Thank you

[@donaldchase329]

The only big point against the Glowforge in any configuration is that it is now and always be dependent on the company servers and steady internet access.

[@skylabby]

I would go with the k40 because of all i will learn whilst getting to glowforge level.. I would like to see you build that one u configured and see all those parts working.

[@loridiscala4454]

What do you think about the Monport 40w Lightburn-ready with CW3000 Water Cooling System? Is it similar to an upgraded OMTech K40 like you're talking about here?

[@bryanbaldwin]

I think I would just go with a glowforge. Brands have you ever thought of reviewing the Yorahome 6550 ?

[@makeorbreakshop]

Haven’t had the chance to check them out

[@seabeepirate]

I think the K40 is a great jumping off point for CO2 lasers if you’re a tinkerer. If modifying your brand new machine is more than you’re willing to take on then the glowforge is worth the extra money.

[@akaTelo]

Great video and information! Seems like the omtech machines have gone up in price quite a bit since this video haha. It's $480 in the video but on the website it's $680. The old question of risking the eBay k40 vs a "trusted" omtech is starting to become more valid again... Oh well I guess this is just the way it goes

[@JMarie-qt3nz]

Hi There- do you have a video that shows how to make these upgrades?

[@Waltkat]

Great video for potential K40 owners. And thank goodness KZbin allows me to set playback speed to 0.75% or else I would have missed half of what was said.

[@skylolo7359]

Do you have to pay monthly for the glowforge cloud to even use it ? And if you dont can you still use glowforge?.I just started looking into lasers and been leaning towards the k40 monport one which has an updated board so you can use lightburn . Just for hobby for now

[@97JoMiller]

and now the K40 just comes with all of those upgrades from the start... I even got the water chiller for 500. I am very interested in the camera and camera mount that you mentioned... Also lighting... the lighting on my K40 is absolutely horrible.

[@privatebubba8876]

With the new Monport 40 watt laser most of you you upgraded is already there now for $657.00 including a CW3000 water cooler and the Lightburn software license.

[@unclerichard6729]

Looks like this video was recommended to me a couple of years late but it's still relevant. The factor that you didn't mention at all is likely the biggest factor to consider when making this decision... Serviceability. While the K40 is obviously repairable, since it can be upgraded, it's my understanding that the Glowforge is not serviceable at all. Last year I was considering buying a used Glowforge and found dozens for sale. Thinking that anything bought used would likely at least need a new tube I looked into the cost of parts and the tube. Turns out you can't buy parts or repair the machine on your own. If your tube, or any other part, goes out then the only option is to ship the machine back to Glowforge and they will give you a discount on buying a new one. I couldn't find any other service information so I opted to not get one. It's a truly horrible policy that makes the Glowforge seem more like a scam than a ligament machine. I hope that I either missed something or they fix the way they treat their customers.

[@stephenarbelohernandez4374]

Can we add with all that upgrades the rotation device attachment!?

[@chefjacobs3dprintz564]

I currently have a k40 thats semi modified. However in the future i would go with a 50 or 60w omtech

[@ducki8845]

Imo no offline control software = eliminated

[@247LilJoker]

This was a very helpful video and very well put together. Thank you .

[@markkruse27]

I would never buy a Glowforge for one simple reason, if they go under there is no way to control the unit. That is a huge risk.

[@IIIofV]

Personally after starting my laser experience with an Orturn 20w diode laser with lightburn, I'm hooked on lightburn. I personally believe it to be better all around then the software you use with the Glowforge. IF the Glowforge used lightburn, I'd save my money and buy one, but lightburn is the tool that tells me it's totally worth buying and upgrading the most expensive chinese laser you/I can afford. 50 or 60 watt IMHO ! Lightburn is just too awesome to not have available.

[@makeorbreakshop]

I also love Lightburn!

[@marklehr590]

If you have the space buying a Omtech 50w to 80w and adding a camera using lightburn software will out perform Glowforge at a cheaper price point.. minimal upgrade just add a camera. plus larger work area and ability to use thicker material. Omtech Rocks. I own one and love it.

[@dkaustin98]

I'm interested in laser cutting yet, at the moment it would be for hobby purposes. Creating buildings for a model railroad. I would have to take it on the back covered porch to use it. I saw all those boxes you made in the background of one of your other videos. Using that type of thin plywood, what do you recommend for a beginner/hobbyist? K40?

[@TheCountofF1]

Hi Brandon, Thank you so much for the great info. I'm in the wine business and want to occasionally engrave glasses and wine bottles. I would say about 100 individual bottles or glasses a month. The engraving is not the business. I would also like to do some 3d printing, but not necessary. Glowforge would be ideal except it won't fit anything taller than 2 inches high. Wine bottles are at least 3 inches laying down. I have a $3,000 budget. can I get your thoughts? Thank You, Andrew

[@mikeferretti7422]

So if I have $2000 budget what laser engraver do you recommend?

[@j4nch]

Just curious, for non-US customer( with 230AC) where would you buy a K40-like?

[@makeorbreakshop]

Check eBay

[@adrian4jc]

Can this cut a 5mm acrylic?

[@Owen322]

Personally instead of a glowforge I would go with a 50-60w Chinese laser And a laser chiller they have a much larger bed than the k40 and just better overall quality and still the 50w with a chiller and mods is around the price of a glowforge. the 60w 20by29 af js expensive but with a chiller and accessories for under 4k it’s comparable to the glowforge pro witch is 6k.

[@dhellis19498]

If I thought that I would use a laser very often I would probably go for the upgraded K40. My youngest daughter does crafting and she wants a glowforge. She said that it was because it was all contained.

[@fearnobeer9077]

Let her pay for it with her 1000hours pocket money

[@baraBober]

why does k40 not make an upgraded 1500 dollar version?!

[@Duraltia]

Kinda wish someone ( or even better a brainstorming community ) would put out a DIY Solution with a BOM one can spec to their needs like the Voron 2.4 3D Printer I just recently built 🤔 I really want a CO² Laser for various projects but the affordable ones either won't fit the size criteria, or the safety standards and the rest is either loaded with crap I don't need and just hiking up the price or even worse not controllable without a connection to a cloud service - Fuck _that_ in particular.

[@LaserLife67]

I'd pick the K40 over the Glowforge personally.

[@gaminggeek241]

This is a great comparison video. I upgraded a 50W Chinese blue and white to a true 60W, added the meter, exhaust, camera, Lightburn, and a bunch of other upgrades to be still cheaper than the Glowforge Basic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eorIoaVvZa-Ieck

[@makeorbreakshop]

Love the breakdown!

[@ericapelz260]

Any hardware that REQUIRES a cloud connection is a deal-breaker. Internet down, you're down. The company goes bust, you have a paperweight. I don't mind tinkering and have the skills to do the upgrades, but the increased bed space of the 50W is appealing.

[@sotm2]

Not only is Glow forge software wi-fi it is located on the the Glowforge server and you must connect to the internet to use the LASER!!!!!

[@sotm2]

Bsst! Lightburn's cheapest license is $60 and always has been!

[@kennichols9663]

In my case the glowforge would be better, however if money was not a huge constraint a Thunder Nova 60 beats them both.

[@makeorbreakshop]

Nova is a great step up!

[@tombouie]

Thks, you're right too much trouble. Oh nice white balance in the video.

[@digitus78]

I know this is a year old but you can get a k40 to a 12×24 work area that's still cheaper than a glowforge.

[@春訓不能停]

Cool video, dude!!!

[@MSRWorkshop]

Yeah we’ll the Glowforge Pro is $6900. And says it’s marked down from $16,000. That seems absurdly stupid expensive for what your getting. I can get an 100w Omtech with a 24x40 bed for $5,400. And I’m not locked into their software. Seems like a nobrainer!!

[@3DJapan]

Glowforge's seem really nice but I really don't like that requirement to use their web service. What happens if they shut it down or go out or business. My machine stops working.

[@MrFiscality]

Anyone got experience with acryllic fumes from lasercutting? Do i need active ventilation in a separate room in the house? Not really want to choke my fam haha

[@terryclair2914]

50W Omtech!

[@TheSimba86]

I would rather have the 10 k40's I could buy for the cost of one glowforge, not to mention only being able to run the glowforge with wifi is a deal breaker for me.

[@patprop74]

You can do it for half that amount, ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/n32WiIiQnraln6c) the ones I convert run lightburn off CNC shield V3 and Uno which uses GRBL in PWM Spindle with a simple one transistor two resistors not gate circuit to have the capacity to control the power of the laser in software. the total cost of upgrades I do is around 600$ Canadian dollars TOTAL.

[@DPRIX]

I was able to get a K40 for $80 new.(guy did not know what it was) I would much rather have someone upgrade it for me though..

[@yorinov2001]

being tied to glowforge to run the machine gets a big, " NO THANK YOU " from me

[@Katojana]

The issue with glowforge, as great as their machines are, is the software. Its cloud based and if the service ever has issues or goes byebye completely... well... you cant use the glowforge anymore.

[@Grimm_Book]

so..... get a glowforge... got it. x.x

[@wademckinley1486]

Ortur. Much cheaper. But it is just a hobby for me.

[@derekwright2388]

Diode is great for engrave but not suitable for cutting

[@makeorbreakshop]

Those machines are great especially if your looking to engrave!

[@paulriley5940]

you can get a mini gerbil for $115

[@gijbuis]

current is not power!

[@hadessmayes6929]

thurder

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

Those lightburn cameras are just overpriced webcams, there is nothing special in them.. expect the price is 5x of what they cost in aliexpress.

[@bhutch216]

The glowforge is a waste of money for what you get.