Should You Use Barrage or Burst? | A Magic Training Discussion Video

[@surg1n605]

Putting this at the top for everyone wondering. These calcs were done assuming you made absolutely 0 money while barraging. Any kind of drops you get from things like dusties or nechs will help offset these costs. Barraging will kill things faster and get you more drops which can help offset more of the cost so keep this in mind when making your choices

[@pairot01]

Since your goal was fixed amount of XP, then that translates for a fixed amount of monsters killed (at least for slayer, hp and defence, you gain different amounts of magic xp for both spells) so the net amount of money you'd get from the training would be the same. Just like runes cost, you look at the total number not the rate over time.

[@surg1n605]

It really depends on your goal, if it's fixed XP or total monsters killed

[@pairot01]

@@surg1n605 aren't those basically the same?

[@surg1n605]

I mean they definitely correlate with each other. Like if you use barrage you do kill things faster meaning you will get more drops and use less casts overall right? Because higher damage. So you would essentially get more drops/cast if you want to think about it that way? And because of the varying amounts of magic experience you get/kill it's hard to pinpoint EXACTLY how much xp you will get per monster. So yeah they're close but I wouldn't call them the same. Same but different imo

[@pairot01]

@@surg1n605 yes, the casting xp is the only difference between both cases. Ice burst gives 40 xp/cast, ice barrage gives 52 xp/cast, so the difference is 12 xp/cast and at 744 casts/hr the extra magic xp you get from casting alone is just under 9k xp/hr which isn't negligible but it's not a lot either, and keep in mind it only affects your magic xp, I think most people barrage for slayer xp. My overall point is that it doesn't matter if you kill them faster with barraging because to reach your goal you'd be killing the same amount, roughly. Although thinking about it now I see the flaws on my reasoning. Any profit would reduce the 2.5M gp/hr cost you got on your test because it directly compensates for the runes. To get this lower number we should know the kills/cast (or kills per hour) and the average gp/kill. I love how simple linear math functions are, I've missed this simplicity :P

[@Mir_Teiwaz]

A cheaper option to kodai is nightmare staff. You get the same damage bonus, you just don't get the infinite water runes. And it can auto cast ancients.

[@Kmn483]

Just wanted to say, thanks for always including timestamps! Too few youtubers do this, and it really sets you apart from them. I'm still pushing for the dev streams to have them! @.@

[@surg1n605]

Haha only in a perfect world

[@gabrielpatterson1311]

@@surg1n605 well... The world definetly isnt perfect.... But hey the dev streams have timestamps

[@joshuacholette8182]

Both dust devils and nechs have zero magic defenses though? So the magic accuracy wouldn't matter, should prioritize prayer bonus and magic % rather than magic accuracy. So wouldn't prossy be greater than God robes?

[@surg1n605]

Think about this, you can splash on rats and spiders if you have a low enough magic accuracy, they have NEGATIVE magic defense. Dust Devils and Nechs have 0 magic defense, so there is still a possibility of splashing on them which does correllate with your magic accuracy. So if we can minimize that magic accuracy lost while maximizing our prayer bonus, that would be the ideal environment, and that's why we choose to use god robes over proselyte

[@MrAviak]

@@surg1n605You dont splash on rats BECAUSE they have negative magic defense, one quick search will tell you that, you splash because your attack bonus is so negative that the attack roll comes out to be 0, which means no possible damage. With my magic level at 82, and using basic gear, with proselyte armor, Im coming out to around 99.5 percent accuracy. This is because my attack roll is 5311 even with a magic bonus of -5. The defense roll of dust devils is 64. So therefore we can use the hit chance formula that is, 1 - (defence+2)/[2 x(Attack+1)], So we have 1 - (66)/[2 x(5311+1)] or .993787 or 99.3787% accurate. And given this is with a lower magic level and pretty bad gear. Now that being said, the Ancestral appears to have a magic damage bonus, so that could be a very good reason for using Ancestral. Great video otherwise! Keep up the great vids!

[@surg1n605]

Although you still have a high chance to hit with proselyte on, the god robes are still a slight Xp/hr increase and that’s why I recommend it

[@MrAviak]

@@surg1n605 I'm still such a noob on this game lol I thought when people were saying god robes it meant ancestral. im dumb. So I had a long thing calculating the difference in accuracy with came out to Magic accuracy with your set up using Proc vs god robes. Proselyte gives an accuracy of like 99.66 while God robes are accuracy of 99.79. So a whole .13 percent difference in accuracy lol. But yet the difference in prayer bonus is 37 doses in an hour using God robes and 34 doses in Proc armor. So if we take our 1200 casts per hour times our ~8 dust devils hit, and get 9600 chances to hit in an hour, we can multiply our 9600 by our accuracy percents and get Proc armor hitting 9567 times an hour while robes hit 9579 times an hour. So Robes hit an extra 12 times an hour for the cost of 3 prayer doses...lol at this point im thinking Fashionscape and wearing some of the magic robes. Yes I realize how ridiculous this is, it was fun to learn about magic accuracy though. And how irrelevant magic potions are.

[@surg1n605]

I mean magic level is almost irrelevant when barraging these, it matters when barraging smokes. The difference is so minuscule it’s almost irrelevant. But god robes is ever so slightly better Xp/hr

[@malachiedwards3783]

Ring of suffering gives +2 prayer bonus; +4 when imbued As an in-between from RoTG and Explorer's

[@surg1n605]

Pin that for anybody else interested

[@gmaulpker4765]

Explorers Ring gives prayer bonus too even the 1st one

[@balaklavabalaklava]

super underrated guide. this convinced me to blow my money barraging 98 to 99 slayer

[@hyena436]

2 things i noticed. The necklace switching in the MM2 tunnels doesn't really work, since there is a 9 second delay between when you put on the necklace and when the prayer restore effect turns on. This is to stop people from abusing it exactly how you described it. And when bursting dust devils or nechryels, it can be extremely helpful to bring an explorers ring 4 in your inventory for the free high-alchs while you are still on ancients.

[@surg1n605]

Should’ve mentioned that you just switch to dbone necklace when you’re low on prayer and camp that until you get your prayer back up, I might make a more detailed guide on those since there’s some finer details to discuss with those. And I didn’t mention the high alch feature of the explorers ring because the focus of the video wasn’t really looting, it was more so to discuss actually barraging and stuff of those sorts. But it’s a valid point for sure.

[@henlofrens]

Perfect video bro well done

[@Grassroots_Hegemon]

Use a master wand if you have the 4.2M, it lets you auto cast Burst and barrage with no negative prayer bonus from ancient staff

[@karso8293]

big idea using procilite and instead of the god robes, as dust devils have 0 magic defence

[@orangeflare2662]

either him or smallexplamp did a test like that once i believe and god robes are the best

[@TheSlimshady955]

@@orangeflare2662 nah with 0 mage def, accuracy doesnt affect anything so proselyte is better....

[@orangeflare2662]

@@TheSlimshady955 you can still hit zeros

[@chase4est1]

@@TheSlimshady955 shut up kid

[@jfr1995]

@@TheSlimshady955 Replying to this comment very late, but just don’t want people like me to be misinformed if they stumble across this. People have run the calcs. Robes are better. It’s a marginal difference but they do reduce the number of splashes. So it’s better xp and gp per hour to use vestment robes. In future, I would make sure you’re 100% right before ridiculing somebody else’s suggestion.

[@kaptainkoko6]

You didn’t consider/mention the fact that higher DPS means more monsters dying. This means that you get more drops to compensate cost so gp/h difference would be less. Also more dust devils/monkeys dying means more prayer points restored reducing pots/refilling at POH.

[@surg1n605]

Argument 1: ~10:50. Althought not explicitly said, I do mention that barrage has a higher base damage meaning that you will be reaping more benefits from percentage damage increases. Argument 2: I touch on this at around 5:40 discussing about dust devils and how with a higher prayer level you won't need prayer potions, but yes I did not explicitly talk on those points. I talked about points that are kind of close to them. Fair points though, fair points

[@kaptainkoko6]

Surg1n Yeah I agree you made the point that there were improvements from higher DPS, just think it should be noted that the cost would be lower which might swing the balance for some. Like your videos anyway man, lots of information, it’s appreciated.

[@harjyots]

Hey guys i'm trying to cast the spell but it keeps saying I need a higher mage level?

[@jordanwinters5268]

Another tip for Nechrayrchs: You can get another Nech in front of it and barrage it in place, and it won't spawn the little guys at all if it can't melee attack you. So you can still just Ice Barrage without bloods

[@TheSlikiboy]

Fantastic video. Great job on this.

[@ALittleMessi]

For nechryarch if you have the other nech's between you, he won't hit or spawn any mobs on you

[@SerenityM54L2SAM5L5N1]

Really? That's good. Nechryarch hits so damn hard, gotta blood barrage that monster usually.

[@giorgir2334]

Also, consider you kill them faster, therefore you get more loot so make back the lossses or even profit. Also, Dinh's dinh's bulwark aggros almost 10 monsters within 5-6 squares with it's special attack.

[@JamesCalderUK]

Do you want to save money? Burst Are you not bothered? Barrage

[@kakron8270]

It was my understanding that prosecute is better than god robes as magic accuracy doesn’t matter at dust devils and nechryaels due to them not having any magic defence. So long as your magic accuracy is not negative you should hit the same? Am I wrong in this?

[@surg1n605]

You still splash occassionally while in Prossy, sometimes even hit 0's, having higher magic accuracy will help reduce this. It's minimal in comparison but still more worth it than taking the -60 magic accuracy of prossy

[@MrAviak]

If you have Robes I think they are better because of the magic attack bonus, but other than that, the ~.4 percent splashing with pros armor is worth the amount of money saved on prayer pots for sure. Not to mention if you have Ancestral Robes you are rich enough to not worry about saving on prayer pots.

[@killyain123]

how does full ahrims + amulet of the damned compare to max magic dmg

[@x2openai]

Dust devils have 0 magic damadge, i think mage attack bonus is not important.

[@pathua7692]

Side note. When on slayer task, barrage with kodai and ancestral, you actually makes gp! At least, that's what I noticed when I'm on task.

[@surg1n605]

Dam y'all ballers

[@sdsdsdssdsdxdd]

The rich just get richer smh

[@surg1n605]

Smh my head

[@christopherbeasley3617]

Hey Surg, if you can't burst or barrage, but are still in the 90's for magic, what strategy would you suggest to train mage?

[@surg1n605]

Do Desert Treasure and get access to ancients honestly lol. stun alching is an option or afking nmz using whatever elemental combat spell you can use.

[@Zombiessssss]

Why use slayer helm over face mask

[@connorlumsden310]

Is it better to use ice burst or if I have the have the level for say smoke barrage should I be use that over burst?

[@Redai89]

I approach this different way to be honest, everybody knows its 2x more money to use barrage vs bursting, BUT... if you do like 500 casts or get like basic 250 kills at XXX monster where u normally burst, nechs, devils etc. or even monkeys.. anyways, lets say you do 500 casts, how many kills you get with eachthen think how many bursts you would have to have casted to reach the KC you got with barrage and then think how much money you saved with that way. you know what i mean?

[@nottyler4462]

How well does void set ups compare to these between mage, range, and melee?

[@wannabeeish]

can u make a video on the new crystal equipment? Is it better to use infernal axe for fm xp or is the crystal axe so much better

[@surg1n605]

Crystal equipment isn’t in the game yet so the numbers are not accurate

[@khurvinen]

you get less xp overall on magic only than magic+def

[@Spirit_Junky]

Magic attack is not going to make a difference to a 0 mage def monster. Sorry, but I can't give this video a like.

[@iFluffex]

Is it worth to start smoke barrage over ice burst?

[@surg1n605]

Any barrage spell is more damage than burst

[@kevinengland3405]

wouldn't using a suffering ring be worth more than explorer's . and just toggle it

[@surg1n605]

I mean toggling it wouldn’t matter because you’re praying right?

[@vapin9068]

Dinhs bulwark spec is best in slot to aggro Dust Devils and Nechs not many people actually use it but they should.

[@surg1n605]

Correct, you will still need some other facet to pull the mobs since your spec won't recharge 50% inbetween pulls though

[@vapin9068]

@@surg1n605 Yes very true, however having 1 extra inventory slot for darts/blowpipe for every 3rd/4th mob will still increase the xp rates decently. Not many know about dinhs for this and it should be more widespread knowledge imo.

[@surg1n605]

No I'm not disagreeing with you, I just didn't bring mine because I was of the thinking that a lot of people probably won't want to invest into a dinh's just for barraging. But yes Dinh's is very good for luring

[@vapin9068]

@@surg1n605 Yeah I prob misread something or the other, just never see anyone using dinhs anymore and thought everyone forgot about it.

[@surg1n605]

Nah man you’re right, people are usually just lazy imo

[@John-yk4bp]

I like using ring of wealth when bursting cus it picks up coins lol

[@CristianRodriguez-st3vw]

Me taking notes while having 87 magic.

[@owenwalms]

so I definitely shouldn't be using proselyte haha? been doing it wrong all this time

[@dustyroflman8926]

I don’t think magic accuracy does anything to be honest.

[@surg1n605]

keep in mind that your magic accuracy does matter to a point. I mean look at splashing, having a -65 magic bonus will cause you to always splash even on a monster with lvl 1 magic and no magic defense.

[@dustyroflman8926]

Surg1n Well yeah but if you’re using eternal + Seers (i) + book of darkness and ancient staff and occult you can use prossy top and bottom with no effect (minimal effect?) not 100% sure but I’ve always been told as long as the accuracy is positive it’s no problem

[@humanoid52]

@@dustyroflman8926 You win 0.50% accuracy with god robe vs prost top,bottom take your choice...

[@xFuaZe]

@@surg1n605 You should do the math and you'll find out. Monsters with no magic defense (most slayer monsters), proselyte will be worth it. Basically you waste more XP sipping/buying/stocking prayer brews than you are by missing hits.

[@malta071]

15 minutes is way too little time for serious calculations Don't ever burst dust devils or nechryaels if not on task, if you wanna burst/barrage go to MM2 tunnels If you get Nechryarch don't attack it till you get to a safe spot (under that passage for example) since he wont spawn his minions unless he can melee you. Outhealing their attacks is hard even with a blood burst. Dragonbone necklace is a waste at MM2. On your two tile walk that you should be doing for best XP you'll lose half a second to pick up 1 dose prayer pot which restores 25+ and they drop it regularly.

[@muhdaqmal7121]

Barraging at mm2 is fast and less effort but i think its too costly. You can get free mage xp to 99 by breaking even at nechs. You have to pick up all the rune drops though

[@2pacorwhat]

There is no issue bursting dust devils or nechryaels off task.. I lvled most of my mage xp like this while making a profit.

[@logan7018]

I’m really confused when you say you need to make 2.5m an hour to make it worthwhile? Wouldn’t you need to make more than 2.5m an hour to make it worthwhile because you then save yourself time. If you barrage and “save” yourself those hours but spend the exact same hours making the money back then why didn’t you just burst in the first place lol....good guide overall tho, earned a sub.

[@kiriyurox]

If you get xp while making that 2.5m an hour, that gives you a net gain in xp over just bursting

[@logan7018]

kiriyurox yeah I guess a little bit of combat xp doing raids is better than none bursting, makes sense. Other than that not a wide array of methods to make 2.5m+ haha

[@BikersandBags]

Sounds like you're saying C's ring instead of Seers.

[@steave435]

The "barrage if slaying" argument doesn't make sense. You will get a set amount of slayer XP per task since each monster is only worth so much, and you only get to kill so many before it ends. You will gain exactly the same amount of slayer xp regardless of how you do your task, the only differences are what other types of experience you get (melee/magic/ranged) and how long it takes. Since barraging and bursting would both give the same amount of magic xp too, the only difference remaining is time taken - the difference still being the same 7 hours, and then the question is still if it's worth spending an extra 17m to save 7 hours. The answer isn't necessarily tied just to how much money you can make it that time though, you might spend those hours only making 2m/hour but also getting an hours worth of xp in a different skill, and that xp also has value.

[@aleksd286]

mai god, it's simple, if you gota mulla use barrage, if not then use burst, if not x2 then alch

[@muhdaqmal7121]

And i believe mage accuracy is more important then prayer as you get faster kills. So god robes are better that proscelyte

[@satoshinakamoto8638]

tidbit : 1. a small piece of tasty food. 2. a small and particularly interesting item of gossip don't use words you don't know

[@tpworldacc9163]

Long Story Short: Barrage is much more expensive but saves a very little bit of time

[@nathanclarke7162]

cost and time save are relative, if you can make 2.5m/h like most high level accounts, then you save a lot of time for a little bit of money.

[@andresdiaz2225]

Three :D

[@Rifat10467]

Who hurt you lmao You sound so annoyed though the video hahaha

[@surg1n605]

Ouch lol, that's just how I sound yikes

[@slotsocks8168]

before i even watch this im saying it! barrage is best :D

[@Pliskin44]

Could you imagine barraging on defensive smh

[@godssons6979]

It’s the fastest defense xp in the game and once you’re already 99 mage or close to 99 mage you’re better off using defense casting and letting yourself get over 100k defense xp an hour instead of just putting it all in mage (a maxed skill). Defensive casting is good dawg

[@apex_cision7458]

666 views 69 likes 5 dislikes

[@surg1n605]

It's a sign

[@apex_cision7458]

@@surg1n605 i think they want me to 69 the devil :o

[@zokie77]

def xp is free, magic is not. never use defensive.

[@mikem3571]

Second

[@hayman122]

just high alch.lol

[@pabloaldatore6431]

I'm 90 mage so I have to burst dude... Pointless video

[@PLsexpicklePL]

Can use divine Mage pot and boost to 94 and barrage.