Longrange blog 184: Bullets don't lie

[@vassilis331]

Excellent and extremely explanatory work Thomas! Thanks for sharing!

[@THLR]

Thanks for that Vassilis, glad you found it useful.

[@pistolpeta]

Thank you again. I dont know if your viewers realize just how much forethought and work goes into all of the setup required to create a video like this. I'd bet you are more patient than most. Anyways, thank you again.

[@THLR]

I guess I am "conditionally patient". If I'm waiting for a deer, I can wait until forever ends. If I order something on the internet, I want it the next few seconds!

[@pistolpeta]

hahahahahah, too true.

[@THLR]

I just received a Kindle electronic book for my birthday, it kinda underlines my conditional patience and also impacts my wallets. I can buy books and get them in a second. Not good as my shopping impulse has become too low. Must congratulate the business people at Amazon as they are flogging me $10-$20 each time they basically send me an "email", and I get no hardcopy and I cannot pass the books on to friends. Compare this to streaming services like Spotify, HBO and Netflix it's really a poor deal for me. Still I'm hooked...

[@emeryemond7904]

Have watched many of your videos, excellent, informative and amazing to learn how much shooters around the world have in common. We dont realize how many products are avilable from the USA to Europe and Australia ! THANKS very much for all your effort.

[@THLR]

Thanks for that! Yes, good observation, we do indeed use near the same gear everywhere. It's no longer like the old days when the gun was all crafted by the local gunsmith.

[@robkilcollins310]

This is one of the best drills I've seen for effective hunting practice. making that first shot count. Much more important than group sizes.

[@THLR]

Thanks for that. This is indeed geared for hunting, hence the different shapes and low contrast so you're also forced to aim properly. And that is just like it is in the field, the vital zone is not presented like a high contrast target, perfect sideways. It was the best system I could figure out for 10 shots, I find that shooting hundreds like the sport shooters do is simply not realistic for most hunters due restraints in time and money.

[@robkilcollins310]

***** I couldn't agree more. High pressure hunting situations rarely present a perfect firing position. I also enjoyed your bi-pod selection videos, and the 500m challenge. VERY good hunting exercise. thlr.no

[@THLR]

Thanks. There's a surprising amount of hunters who seems to forget that taking the shot is only the finale of the hunt, equally important is getting to a position and organizing your gear so you can actually take the shot. Not that I recommend 500m, but if you learn to work inside those small error tolerances, a target at a normal hunting distance will feel very easy and you can focus more on the hunt instead of the shot.

[@robd-w9942]

I loved the new Long Range video Thomas - a great job by yourself, Ulf and Jon Olaf.

[@THLR]

Thanks for that Rob, hope you found something useful in it. A little sad that it was filmed at the height of our summer, the wind & snow considered...

[@robd-w9942]

THLR.NO Yes, I particularly enjoyed the coverage of your competition. I was very interested in how you ran it and the course of fire. I have been involved in running regional deer hunter's comps. for around thirty years, and ours have always concentrated mainly on typical round score-targets and deer silhouettes - the Norwegian approach, especially the multiple targets and collecting single rounds really appeals to me. Most hunters here are frightened of anything longer than 200m, but I'm trying to get the use of longer ranges into the program as our range extends to 600m so why not use it. Keep up the good work, best regards ... ... ... Rob

[@THLR]

I think you should. Not because I would like to see hunters shoot at longer ranges, but it inspires confidence to have an overcapacity in your skillset. If shooting a deer feels like hitting a barn wall from inside, perfect! It makes for safer hunting.

[@vajake1]

Beautifully done! Stunningly beautiful country! Great shooting tips! Your right hand looks as if it has healed very nicely! You will have to be careful not to grab hot gun parts with it if you have lost a lot of feeling in the palm and fingers! Thank you for posting this!

[@THLR]

Grabbing both cold and warm items can be occasionally be very uncomfortable as temperature is sometimes is interpreted wrong and my brain really can't tell the difference from the real thing. A cold beer can freeze my hand of, and a warm cup of tea can feel like a piece of coal. Fortunately, it's rare now and the sensation is very short in time. Best wishes for the upcoming season, hope you get the beautiful autumn colours soon.

[@cratxn1]

The summer drought is over...such a cool refreshing gulp of Norwegian kNOWLEDGE. A bourbon "sundowner" to you

[@THLR]

Bourbon? Is that watered out whisky? ;)

[@RobWhittlestone]

Hi Thomas - great video as always - and BREATHTAKING scenery! I love your videos. Your methodology makes complete sense. I always learn so much from you. Thank you. All the best, Rob

[@THLR]

RobWhittlestone Thanks for that Rob, best wishes for 2017.

[@ryankc3631]

Welcome back! We all wish we had your traffic problems.

[@THLR]

The low population is ok when you drive a car. It is not ok when you try to find a woman to date. Benefits & drawbacks with everything I suppose...

[@robkilcollins310]

I always look foward to your blogs. well done!

[@THLR]

Thanks for that Rob. Hopefully my hunting season starts soon, so it'll be mostly hunting films now.

[@robkilcollins310]

***** I'm sure you have already answered this, but will you be using the 300NM this season? I had a customer drop of a Blaser R93 LRS2 in 338 LM for some tuning and installation of a Burris Eliminator 3 (not a fan personally but customers love them). Thought of you first time I shot it, what an amazing rifle. If I wasn't so invested in the R700 I would make the switch. thlr.no

[@THLR]

No, the 300NM will be arriving too late for me to use it this season, I'm doing my last shooting sessions next week and I don't like using a rifle I'm not very familiar with. I want to use the 300NM a lot on the range first too see if the improved error margin on wind (compared to my 6,5) is worth the extra recoil. If yes, I'll use it hunting. If no, it will remain for target practice.

[@proyectomer]

Always good information! Simple, but extremely usefull. And the videos, are short but very informative. I love your work!

[@THLR]

Thanks for that, glad that you liked it. There will be more "shooter development" videos.

[@philippefrater2000]

For sure there were interesting things in that video! Hope you'll recover from your injured hand soon. From my experiment, nerves do reconstruct connections by the time. So be patient and keep shoting, this is the point. Regards from France. Philippe. Thanks for your time and vids! 🎯🇫🇷🇫🇷🎯

[@THLR]

Thanks for that Philippe, good luck with the shooting!

[@SanDragoon]

Hi Thomas ! always a great moment to watch your video. Aie Aie ! Terrible accident I hope your wounded righthand 'll be well in future .Regards Kamerad ! from South

[@ctcollinthib]

'Don't work yourself into a frenzy.' Great advice. Every shot counts-sure-but repetition and practice make shots that really count consistently. A calm, methodology will help solve any issues.

[@THLR]

Yes absolutely. A good shot "that I once did" is of little value, it is knowing your capacity for the next shot that is valuable. If you know what you can hit and only take the shots you can hit you suddenly look like a master marksman, even if the shooting isn't all that good. That's my trick!

[@RondaneLongRangeRLR]

Nice movie showing your impressive systematic training, to be followed by the rest of us mortals;) Good luck with the hunting season

[@THLR]

Thanks, good luck with the reindeer!

[@forestalfrank1074]

Thank you for your hard work.

[@THLR]

Many thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

[@johnhughes3772]

Breaking Setup and Creating Setup.....great lesson. I would like to know the manufacturer of that particular cheek weld. In awe of the modular capability of adjusting comb heights. Great piece, enjoyable and informational.

[@THLR]

Thanks! The cheekweld is actually me, you can find it on Vertebrae dot no. There is many similar, Hillman used to mak eone, Hornady makes one, Bradley makes one, Kolvkam makes one, Beartooth as a neoprene version etc etc.

[@David12005]

Excellent shooting.

[@THLR]

Thanks, hope there was something useful in this video.

[@JimmyGunXD556]

Nice vid! I live on that exercise. In my history of watching videos you improve accuracy later in your session. Todd Hodnett from accuracy first says that the barrel should only be cleaned for carbon unless copper is visually out the end of the barrel. He say he's done testing with .25 moa guns that opened up to 1 moa and after cleaning, and after laying some copper down it comes back to .25 moa. He always has a fouled barrel. Curious on your thoughts.

[@THLR]

I believe I clean my barrels the exact same way. Not really cleaning, but removing carbon and keeping it about the "same dirty". I do clean out copper, but also shoot some back in.

[@Selec1201]

Hello!Great as always! Thank you for that work! What type of carbon remover do you use? Bye

[@THLR]

I cannot recall the name of my solvent. Most of the time I use plain Breakfree oil and bronze brush, as well as Butch's Boreshine when needed.

[@THLR]

...But now that you mentioned it, I think I should buy a dedicated carbon remover. Off to the internet...

[@Johnerik01]

Nice shooting as always! I wonder if you have ever heard of the Torrey Pines Logic, inc gopro adapter for scopes. May make your "through scopes" shots easier. kinda pricey though. If you need a link lemme know! Thanks for making these videos.

[@THLR]

Oh yes, I have heard of it and drooled over it. However, I have yet to see nice sharp videos on the net from that system and I'm not willing to order one before I know that it will fit my scope and sit properly through recoil. A system like that would be perfect for this project!

[@MrSottobanco]

I couldn't find a real "The Long Range Brotherhood". Is that a patch for an organization with a different name?

[@THLR]

Sorry, I wouldn't know.

[@tavo509]

muy buena precisión!!! saludos desde Argentina!!!

[@THLR]

Many thanks, best of luck with the season in Argentina!

[@minervius]

great watch

[@THLR]

Thanks, glad you liked it.

[@Zmei117]

Давненько не было!

[@THLR]

But I'm back now!

[@Zmei117]

Это хорошо!

[@cratxn1]

@ 3:40...what country is the size of a shoe box ??

[@THLR]

Netherlands. It's tiny, like something a kid would draw in Kindergarten. I'm not even sure it's a real country. It's below the sea. Sounds like a myth, like Atlantis. ;)

[@clintonscottwalsh]

there is an aussie guy you need to check out..his channel on here is called mark and sam after work.. him and his wife..he hits a coke can out to 2500yards with his .300win mag and shoots out to 4km.. 4000meters with his .375 gibbs cheytec improved rifle but the wind was an issue hitting the target.. great video..

[@THLR]

Yes I have seen a couple of those films, like them.

[@evrorion58]

Do you have any experience with mirage bands from the modifier to he scope mount. My modifier often gets quite hot, and the mirage can be a PITA.

[@THLR]

Sorry, no. I have never used that. Can't see any reason why it shouldn't be helpful.

[@classicarmy41]

Hi! I am looking for a good cheek pad and the one you use seems to be pretty convincing. The only question is that would it fit to a cz 550 standard? The placement of the rear sling mount is a bit different from the blaser's so ... Do you have any experiment with such a thing?

[@THLR]

The attachment on the one I'm using is via elastic and Velcro. I just pinched a small hole for my own stud and also put some double sided tape on top to make it slip-free. But sorry, no experience with the CZ550.

[@classicarmy41]

Thank you for your answer. I'll do the same

[@ZebulonJakub]

Thank you

[@THLR]

No problems, glad you enjoyed.

[@Warbeast911]

good to have you back. i am to stupid to search. what kind of lyddemper do you use?

[@THLR]

Atec CTM4, now discontinued I think.

[@Warbeast911]

+THLR.NO thx. thought about a hausken , but they seem to dislike long Strings of fire

[@cratxn1]

I wonder if you built up the palm swell to be more pronounced it that would help your hand scaring problem ? [ I did this because my hands were too large for the design pistol grip to trigger distance] Of course, then again having more palm contact with the rifle might induce MORE input during the shot impulse ?? poor cripple...stud ducks don't make good gimppies

[@THLR]

Have tried and more painswell is sometimes downright painful to tight tissue.

[@safarisauer3160]

Excellent shooting ,keep going ,buddy!

[@THLR]

Thanks, there will be several videos on the shooter improvement theme. I'm hoping to film some more the next week.

[@safarisauer3160]

***** Hi ! Do you have experience shot with the sauer ssg 3000 and steyr ssg08 ? I heard many good news from this rifle. I hope to purchase a tactical rifle this year . Hope to your suggestion,Thanks again.

[@THLR]

My first serious rifle was a Steyr SSG 69 and I loved it. I do not know anything about the 3000 and 08, but Steyr makes quality rifles so I would not be afraid to buy one.

[@safarisauer3160]

***** Oh,thanks for replying . The trigger guard of ssg69 is easy to break? SSG69 is famous for its accuracy .But it is really hard to find spare parts of ssg69 in Canada ,do you think ssg69 is robust and accurate?

[@safarisauer3160]

***** I saw the steyr ssg08 338lapua appeared in your video many times ,haha ,that is why I ask the performance of ssg08,very very few guys shoot this rifle in our there.

[@geemng7391]

what is the name of your scope and reticle! looks cool

[@THLR]

It is Minox ZP5 5-25x56 scope and THLR Concept reticle (prototype). You can see it more in ep 167.

[@alanhodgkinson1717]

what's the name of that cheekpiece Thomas?,I like it's easy height adjustability👍󾓪,many thanks.

[@THLR]

It's this one vertebrae.no/thlr-cheek-rest.html

[@baumstark]

Hi, would you choose a 6.5x55 or 308 for LR out of the blaser. Do you use the semi weight barrel? I have the success stock blaser R8 with normal 52cm 308 barrel. No moderator at the moment. Thank you Matthias , greetings from Bavaria Germany.

[@THLR]

If buying new, 6,5x55 due lower recoil and better error margin on windcall. I think you'll find the 308 shoots with very accurately and more than good enough, so I would never replace it if you already have it. I use normal profile barrels and they are around 50-52 cm when cut and threaded for moderator.

[@baumstark]

+THLR.NO Thank you

[@mrbigfatmadmoose]

Howdy! I very appreciate to see something from you again. Which suppressor do you use for sporting/tactical application? Due to the "hunting silencer legalisation" here in Bavaria I bought a light aluminium one. Now I want something more heat resistant. Where can I get some information about hunting/shooting longrange in Norway? Best regards!

[@THLR]

In this film I use the Atec CTM4 (discontinued) aluminium suppressor. I've used it on a 243, 6.5x55 and the last 6.5x284 barrel. This means I have a MINIMUM of 4000 shots through it (it's likely closer to 6). Here in Norway Hausken and Atec are dominant and should be able to suggest the correct model. As for LR in Norway, send me a pm on Fb and I'll try to put you in touch with the guys hosting the events in southern Norway.

[@nkcwilliams]

Where you get the wind patch from?

[@THLR]

Here vertebrae.no/thlr-mirage-badge.html. But mind you, you will be overcompensating at 6-700m if you follow the patch.

[@jaycupples4362]

You got that 300 Norma in the works yet?

[@THLR]

No, still waiting. It is now so late it's postponed until after my hunting even if it's at my door tomorrow.

[@eragonwjfn]

Do you ever shoot in a sitting position or standing up? Not at long rang of course. But for practise?

[@THLR]

Yes occasionally, but it's not something I really practice.

[@zachplosh2303]

Hi Thomas, good to see you're making short films again. I'm trying to set up a hunting rifle that I can shoot up to 450 yards with on game and practice up to 800 on targets for a reasonable price. I intend on using a .270 win Browning X-bolt and purchasing a Vortex Viper 4-16x50 in FFP (for my price range this scope seems to be great) I have a few questions. 1.would you find FFP scopes preferred or even necessary for this type of application? Or would you take the money and spend on a slightly better SFP scope? 2. do you think the .270 win is a suitable cartridge for this application? (keep in mind I live in North America and do not reload, nor do I want something with excessive recoil)

[@THLR]

1) You have already landed on what I consider the best choice in that price range. I do not know of any scope in that price range that fullfil all the criterias as well as the Vortex. FFP is not necessary for succesful LR shooting, when you hit on the first shot it doesn't matter if you have FFP or SFP. The benefit of FFP is the target:reticle ratio always stays the same and it will work as a ruler. When you see the bullet strike through the scope, you can use the reticle (a ruler) and simply measure the number of clicks required for your next shot. Works very, very well.

[@THLR]

2) If the 270 is what you got, then 270 will work just fine. If you where to starting from scratch and buying a new rifles, there are several other cartridges I would recommend that would do the same job or better with same or less recoil. But if you already have a 270 I think you'll find that it works perfect. The differences between the various cartridges becomes theoretical, the deer certainly won't notice but you'll perhaps struggle a little more on the farthest targets. For example, from looking at the Hornady website I find that they have a lot of factory ammunition with bullet weights 130 to 140 grains that have a G1 ballistic coefficient of around 0,45 to 0,5. This number indicates how big your error margin on the windcall will be and I'd say 0,4 is workable, 0,45 is good and anything hovering around 0,5 is really good. And here is also where you'll find your "better" calibres, for example of you look at a 140gr bullet in your 270 you'll find that you can do the same job with a 123gr bullet in a 6,5mm Creedmoor. Or you can even find that 123gr bullet in the 6,5 Grendel, it'll have lower velocity but even lower recoil and if you take factory ammo price into the picture you'll see that Grendel factory ammo can be significantly cheaper to shoot. But if you compare ballistic figures, check investment cost of new gear vs the option of shooting cheaper ammo you'll find that it'll take a fair amount of shooting before it's worth changing your 270.

[@THLR]

And I sometimes wish I had followed my own advice here. If I'd never started reloading and never gotten into stupid gun projects, but rather stuck to my first factory gun (and later the Blaser, I wouldn't want to be without that one) and shot the 6,5x55 factory loads (cheapest to shoot here) I would probable have had the same shooting and more hunting (time not spent reloading) for perhaps the same money.

[@wolverinekut]

Hi Thomas! What do think which is better for mountain hunting schmidtundbender PM2 Or Z8i 2.3-18x56 P ?

[@THLR]

No real opinion between the brands. For all hunting I have come to like a minimum of 15x magnification so I can closely examine what animal I have in front of me (I find the 12x scopes too little these days. I don't need the magnification for the shooting). Couple this with a minimum of 50mm objective to handle all/ most light conditions. Premium optics is a worthwhile investment for me. As to brands, I have no strong opinion. Lightweight is nice, but it's usually cheaper to take of 2-300 grams somewhere else in the equipment rather than on the rifle or scope. For example you can easily drop 1 kg just by choosing the right backpack.

[@wolverinekut]

THLR.NO thank you Thomas. As always great opinion of great hunter. Thank you Sir

[@michaelwalk8048]

How you know if you scope (S&B 5-25X56) is precisely adjust because after all the settings for shoot in the target for example 600m, if you shoot 100m you going to not in the target ? And if i take for my S&B 5-25X56 MSR reticule 1st focal plane i take for the reticule 2nd focal plane P4L or P4L fein ?

[@THLR]

Not sure what you are asking about the 1st/2nd focal planes. The scope is zeroed against a shot that is called a HIT (regardless of where the bullet hits). The scope is never zeroed against a shot that is called MISS (even if it hits dead center). If you are not comfortable calling your own shots, you must zero the scope against the center point in a group of 3 to 5 shots. There will usually be some small amount of shooter error and limitation of rifle precision included in this process. That is also reflected on the required size of the target before the shooter starts being accurate.

[@michaelwalk8048]

but there's no an indication for see if your scope is ok or i had to shoot at 100m 3-5x windless for adjust my scope ? And 1st/2nd focal it's just on the web site Schmidt & Bender for 5-25x56 there is various reticule. For 1st focal i take MSR reticule and 2nd focal i don't now which reticule take between P4L and P4L fein, can you help me my choice :)

[@THLR]

For that kind of scope, 2nd focal has no use and it is irrelevant what sort of reticle you choose as the relation between target and reticle will change with the magnification. In 2nd focal you only need a center aiming point. If you want to test your scope, you must use a colliminator tool (private persons don't have this) or you will have to make-do with a "tall target test". I believe Applied Ballistics explains this in one of their online videos.

[@RichBorrett]

Must be quite a few rounds through your 284 barrel now! What is your expected barrel life with this caliber?

[@THLR]

They seem to go around 2400rds. They still shoot fine and good enough for hunting, but they don't have that "extra" at 600 at that stage. I am more than 1000 but less than 2000 in this barrel?

[@RichBorrett]

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at rechambering from 6.5x55. Currently considering 6.5 SLR & 6.5x55 BJAI, but 6.5-284 is in there as well. Lots to think about!

[@THLR]

Have fun! Remember, whatever you choose, a whale dies! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mafGcmuqp9qYrJY

[@sniperhunt4450]

Does the firing group open when the suppressor heats up?

[@THLR]

Not really, but the mirage makes it too diffucult to aim properly

[@sniperhunt4450]

@@THLR Thanks dear friend What kind of suppressor do you suggest?

[@THLR]

@@sniperhunt4450 Atec Optima 45

[@sniperhunt4450]

@@THLR 🌹🌹🌹❤

[@garand1911]

Is your shooting proficiency tests for personal use like hunting, or for military service, or government regulations related to firearm ownership in your country ?

[@THLR]

Personal use and shooter development. I had a hand injury a few years back which basically dropped me to me at square one. Since I could not feel, I had to find other ways to rebuild my technique, so I started researching other shooters and relying more on bullet impact than "feel".

[@Weejohnboomstick]

it looked like you were shooting through the small tree.

[@THLR]

That's just the camera angle. Through the scope you would clearly have seen at that the bullet travelled well clear of it.

[@Donnie387]

What brand of bipod is that ??

[@garand1911]

I believe its a Minox, with his custom reticle.

[@THLR]

That is the RPS, Rifle Precision System. Titanium material, Norwegian company.

[@THLR]

Yes, the scope is a Minox ZP5

[@flugschulerfluglehrer]

Roads were crowded that day...

[@THLR]

Almost rush hour...

[@kov8008]

thanks !

[@THLR]

No problem. Nice profile logo you got!

[@kov8008]

+THLR.NO :).......is mine schweißhundeführer logo

[@sniperhunt4450]

Material suppressor?

[@THLR]

Aluminium

[@sniperhunt4450]

@@THLR Thanks dear friend What kind of oppressor do you suggest?

[@robotyagashulz3125]

great !!!!

[@THLR]

Thanks!

[@cel0023]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@THLR]

Thanks, hope it was useful.

[@THLR]

bowhunter 85 6,5x284 Norma.

[@THLR]

Thanks!

[@LiquidColourDesignBallycarry]

What distance are you carrying this skill process at.

[@THLR]

Minimum 500 meters. There should be a playlist here kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2jVgXewqKmaj6c

[@agskytter8977]

You need a wireless electronic target :-)

[@THLR]

I need a much bigger wallet before I need an electronic target ;)

[@CrottinDeChevre]

Hello, could you recommend me a suppressor for 308w, and budget around 500 600euros ?

[@THLR]

I only know Hausken and Atec and like them well.

[@CrottinDeChevre]

+THLR.NO thanks

[@GANADERONUEVAZELANDA]

always nice vid friend Have you email for contact bud?

[@THLR]

You'll find it on my web.

[@ssaaee468]

1