Sifu Review - Is It Worth the Hype? Analysis of the Combat System

[@sibbyeskie]

You can see why developers went against linear design. On paper it seems to equal freedom. And more of that seems better. It’s taken a while but I think they’re starting to realize that constraints have value. Sort of like making art or music. The boundaries define creativity at least as much as the potential to break them. In that spirit, we have been doing the gaming equivalent of playing freeform jazz for hours on end, and only now realizing it mostly sounds like shit.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes exactly, it's not always best to sacrifice the beauty and rhythm of the gameplay in order to let the player wander around in mostly empty space ha.

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

Usually, if you can do the classics/basics well, what ends up happening is your game or movie or whatever will become one of the genre gold standards. Especially so in genres like shmups or beat em ups, where the market isn't flooded with a glut of titles. Removing constraints is a good way to fix things that didn't need fixing and cock it all up.

[@lounowell4171]

@@TheElectricUnderground tbh i was a huge proponent of the move towards open world and am pretty bummed that Ubisoft doing it poorly has ruined the concept for so many Banjo-Kazooie levels have multiple objectives that are fun to complete in any order with complete freedom of movement - it's not like it's impossible...

[@paxhumana2015]

@@TheElectricUnderground , your f u c k i n g b i t c h a s s self wouldn't be saying that f u c k i n g s h i t about the graphics if Sifu was a retro 2D beat-em-up/side-scrolling brawler/conveyor belt fighter now, would you? Here is the thing...hypocrisy like yours is honestly just as toxic as old British PC/video game magazine reviews and IGN, Gamespot, and Game Informer reviews. Also, open world mechanics and beat-em-ups DO work and CAN work IF they are implemented right...see True Crime: Streets of L.A. as an old school example of it (mostly) done right.

[@danny833]

@@lounowell4171 If they wanted to do "open world" correctly, game devs would be ripping off DnD campaigns, not soulless Goobiesoft games lol. The 90's CRPG devs got this right, but they're all old now.

[@MikeyJ1572]

In this game the entire environment is your weapon. I feel like this aspect was sorely missed in this review. In the footage I didn't see a single throw and I swear that move is seriously OP. Throwing items, throwing people into walls, down stairs, over railings, into other enemies, into holes, into breakables, etc etc etc. BREAK AND THROW EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING

[@KrieGor27]

I wouldn't say the aging system is somekind of a scoring system, I just see it as lives. It took me about 12 hours to finish it at age 20 and I cannot go any lower than that. It's like finishing Streets of Rage 4 without dying, not like finishing it with more and more points. When they will release the new hard mode, it may become a better metric to prolonge the game's life. At the moment, you could use XP as a metric but since you can get a X5 by just dodging or taunting, it's not effective either. So with the lack of a proper system in place, I guess all you could do is one sitting session through it just like Iconoclast does or I do, trying to be as smooth and cool as possible in the meantime... Outside this nitpicking point, I agree with absolutely everything else you said. There is one thing you didn't talk about and it's the reason I still enjoy Sifu very much (and probably one of the main appeal Iconoclast find in it as well). Very strong crowd control game. You see it through your eyes of a character action games' fan. And I understand your points, completely. I do think bosses, especially, are locking the gameplay up too much. But Sifu is more of an oldstyle beat'em up ; I'm talking mainly about belt scrolling beat'em up. Crowd control is big in Sifu as you can't just dodge cancel out of harm's way at the last frame like in DMC/Bayonetta. Also enemies do attack simultaneously, making parrying and evading very dangerous when you're surrounded by stronger types of opponents. So you want to position yourself and them smartly. You can throw them around or even into themselves by stunning them, gain s, not by throws but by deathblows, delaying a threat by using a sweep etc. Actually it's kind of why Ninja Gaiden is much more loved by traditional beat'em up fans than your average DMC clone. You also have those elements though it's much more fast paced, your mobility, especially aerial mobility changes the way you approach crowd control, and it's kind of secondary to the whole On Landing Ultimate Technique thing. Unlike NG, Sifu has all the flavor of a belt scrolling beat'em up thought in a modern way (this means, yes, trading jabs for blocking as your get-in move ^^). It's still completely ground based, very simple to play, very short combos, no juggles, hand-to-hand combats with breakable weapons that you can steal to your enemies and throws at them, of course a life system (very rare in 3D action games!), a completely linear level design, an excellent game density... So it's like when God Hand came out. It's a belt scrolling beat'em up except it isn't. It's not like Die Hard Arcade or Spikeout, a belt scroller made with polygons, it's an actual 3D action game that feels made in 2022, but for fans of Renegade and all its little babies. Because of that, it's also crossed with Sekiro, and you feel it very heavily during boss fights. Anyway, I don't want to bore you. As always, thanks for this very interesting review!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh some excellent points on the crowd control. Yes you are right about that where after the first 3 hours of gameplay I learned that I can't weave in and out of squads of enemies like in dmc or ng, and instead do have to think about positioning them and myself like a streets of rage. That could have been an additional point of merit for the combat for sure. And yes the age system is not a good fill in for a proper scoring system, but it's like a baby step in that direction maybe ha. I do agree it is like a life system as well, sort of a mix between the two ideas. I would like to see it more fleshed out though and maybe have it work with the xp system more (recover age possibly?). Great comment my dude!

[@boghogSTG]

It is more crowd control heavy than a lot of games but IMO there's a bit of a risky tension between the game's counter-heavy combat mechanics and its crowd control, that might end up making hard mode a shitshow. In 2D beat em ups, you're heavily incentivized to lock down enemies before they get to strike. When dealing with weaker mooks, this more or less works in Sifu but as soon as the more tanky mixup loving enemies come into play the crowd control turns into a bit of a clusterfuck since you can't do proper damage/hitstun without counters, but the attack overlap & mixups make fishing for counters tedious. To be fair, this is sort of a problem in God Hand too but the launchers you get from counter hits are so bonkers that it kinda evens out. I just hope they handle the hard mode in a smart fashion, instead of just adding more elite mooks.

[@JustFun-ho6qy]

I think bosses have a habit of locking you out of gameplay in a lot of character action games. Ninja Gaiden is especially guilty of this. It's why the whole dodge offset system in Bayonetta is such a stroke of genius.

[@KrieGor27]

@@boghogSTG First of all, I really enjoyed all the inputs and analysis you made during the long video regarding what makes a good beat'em up uploaded on this channel. I've never watched a more interesting in depth discussion about the genre (which has been my favorite for more than 30 years). I feel really honored to have you reply on a comment I just posted. About the subject of crowd control in Sifu, I'm not entirely sure more elite mooks spread out in all stages would be a bad choice. One of Sifu's mistake, IMO, is that parrying is not only a strong defensive option, it's also a strong offensive option as it safely deals damage to enemies' postures, which leads to invulnerable death blows. When the crowd is only compose of basic enemies, I do not need to mind my position and theirs. They don't have good guard breaking moves and you can fill their posture gauge in like 3 parries or just 2 parries and 2 counters (which are so fast you're not really oppening yourself). It's just safest this way, than actively taking things into your own hands, but also obviously, less interesting. Now when stronger enemies come into play, you can't just wait. You have to keep moving, not letting them surround you, prioritize, as some enemies are very defensive while others are glass cannon. Weaker enemies become resources (for health, weapons, they can even deal some friendly fire). There are not that many enemy types but they complement each other to create interesting puzzles. As I was trying to make the game a bit more intense and interesting, I tried beating everyone in stage 5's court at the same time without dying (video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gV7Vd6aOecuJqMU ). It took me quite a few retries but it was very fun. The fact that you have to be really patient and can hardly commit, with such pressure, might certainly make it feel tedious but it's also very methodical, which has its charms. It reminded me of the harder trials in the Ninja Gaiden series, the one with multiple bosses. I prefer the way belt scrolling beat'em up keeps you in a rush for the control of the screen, but if I have to choose between a purely timing based experience and one where I'm constantly moving and devising a way to thin the herd, the last one will be my dish.

[@boghogSTG]

​@@KrieGor27 Aw shucks thanks! Glad you enjoyed that ep, beat em ups are really under discussed which is weird considering so many things people love are staples of the genre. Hell, I'd say Resident Evil 4 is like a cousin of the genre and people LOOOVE that game. Yeah I suppose in Sifu's case if it comes down to a choice between a harder rhythm game vs a somewhat tedious but more strategic spacing game I'd also MUCH prefer the latter especially with how annoying it got with its strings. (Side note) Honestly I wish they'd just remove all 3+ hit strings and focused on giving enemies a bigger variety of single attacks with different functions, maybe give all enemies throws & have them be a hard counter to duck dodges as well as guarding. Just so there's less string memorization and more reaction based gameplay. Atm fighting single enemies/bosses feels like they wanted a fighting game RPS system but forgot to include rock or something. Your vid does seem pretty fun but IMO only in shorter bursts, whole levels consisting of that sorta gameplay would get too frustrating to me. What bugs me is that because you're forced to play on the enemy's terms so much, it feels like a game of poke & run with the game constantly undercutting your rewards for good crowd control/decision making. God Hand's a good comparison here I feel cause while it has similar problems (on lvl die/hard mode and KMS at least) where your normal attacks kinda suck so you're funneled into fishing for counter-hits. But once you do get that initial counter hit you can do a lot of cool set ups, launching enemies into each other/getting wall kick loops going. Suddenly that poke & dodge turns into something more akin to a traditional beat em up where you're playing bowling with otherwise very dangerous enemies. Sifu's not like that, you can't capitalize on good decisions/reactions very much beyond just wailing on that single enemy and maybe knocking them down/getting their weapon, even then other enemies can just cockblock you out of your rewards/moments of control. It's not even a matter of difficulty since I think God Hand's waaay harder of a game. Then again, maybe I need to play around with Sifu's throws & stairs some more.

[@Ocelot93]

21:36 oh boy, my morbid curiosity got the best of me and I went to check that review. Quote: "Down to the not-so-fun fact that Sifu’s cultural consultant and inspiration for the “movement” of the main character is none other than a white man, (who’s a distinguished Pak Mei master, but a white man nonetheless) and the fact that Howie Lee’s score-a bit of a saving grace-seems like one of the only aspects of the game that was meaningfully worked on by someone who’s of Asian descent, it becomes clear that a particularly alien lens was deployed in the construction of this game. Sloclap, a team made based out of France and composed of mostly white people, tries to honor Chinese culture with Sifu and display a level of admiration for it in the oddest way possible: erecting its own monument in the very image of the people that inspired the game, meanwhile erasing them from most steps of its creation. The result is a wildly uneven commodification of a people, place, their history and their art." Video game journalism at its finest.

[@EdgardR.]

What the ruck did I just read lmao

[@troo_6656]

I know this is 2 years old, but damn I can't say I agree with a decent bunch of things. Don't take offense but I think you approached it without thinking much. As an example this combat system is not at all forcing you into strings as you seem to imply. Sure there are strings to take advantage of, but only in low skill play are you going to rigidly listen to the simplistic ways of dealing with the stuff enemies can throw at you. Take flashkick enemies for example. From what you're saying one would assume you have to dodge all the attacks flashkick dishes out till the end of her attack string and then punish... but you will soon notice that, that takes a really long time. Instead you can use at least 4 moves to speed things up (very important for arenas btw) and it all has to do with the stun mechanic. You can use charged backfist and stun her before she can even do anything, or use crotch punch as soon as she goes for the high kick, dodging while stunning her at the same time, similar effect can be achieved with duck strike or well timed snap kick. That just to name a few things you can do while fighting one enemy... practically every enemy is like this (the grab that you mentioned is basically the sole exception), but you have to switch your brain on and think instead of simply adhearing to what the menu told you your attack strings are. I also just don't get where you got the idea that this game wants you to walk up to an enemy and block. I play this game quite offensively usually initiating the first strike, tossing enemies around and being in the thick of the action (unless I play with modifiers that specifically make this style not very viable). You can play defensively. It's an option, but that causes you to drop your score meter multiplayer so obviously that's not the type of style the game wants you to take. Yang... I suppose I get why you think you have to just block him, he's fast, hits hard and intimidates player by having the same if not slightly better moveset, but once again just blocking is not the only option. You won't find exploits and he won't let you execute whole string on him but if you know what you're doing you can get through his defence and take the initative, espetially on lower difficulties (bit harder on master). I don't know who you've been watching back then, but I recommend 1ManArmy for high level gameplay. His entire channel just proves you wrong on defensiveness. Also just man stop trying to push what character action games should be from your understanding. Sifu while in some respects similar to eastern character action games doesn't trace the lineage to them, it is inspired by older action fighting games. It's like a different lineage that diverged and goes its own separate way. Both japanesse and western character action games come from the same background but one is not derivitive of the other, they are separate, so either say why something works in one and how it would benefit the other or stop trying to make one like the other when you don't seem to understand why they're doing what they're doing.

[@jerm5466]

Great comment - I really like this channel a lot, but his takes on Sifu are wack and he uses it as a punching bag in a lot of his videos and ends up sounding like he barely played the game.

[@Arunnejiro]

Honestly he is like this in even his more recent videos. I think his commentary is typically very good, but like you said he does have a very particular idea of what games should be every time. I think parrying is fine in general, but it depends on how it's implimented. Dark souls 1 parrying, sifu parrying, and sekiro parrying are all very different. In dark souls 1, ( forgot about 2 or 3) you can parry/ backstab, which is very op. In Sekiro you can't just parry/backstab, you have to parry entire strings, not just one move then backstab. Sifu requries you to parry multiple strings aswell unlike dark souls ,but if I'm not mistaken every attack can't be parried, you have to make use of dodging in a specific direction. You don't just have invincibility frames on dodge to my knowledge.

[@TrailCaddy]

It's incredible how so many people failed to see how offensive you can be in this game.

[@Senumunu]

i think you should play the ps2 game Urban Reign it will make you understand what he means

[@raxzen-1610]

Well, I have to say. I deliberately came back to this channel after some comments of his on (I believe) MGR's parry system video rubbed me the wrong way. And it felt worth mentioning since this youtuber seems to really appreciate nuance in this kind of game. The algorithm brought me his video on God Hand (in which he praises the ability to stunlock any enemy into a wall by kicking and dodge-cancelling the recovery, something he criticizes here in using back-forward kick and dodge-cancelling the recovery, go figure) In his God Hand video he stresses the importance of positioning, something very, very important in Sifu once you start to master the game and notice every command-move in the game has an upgraded version if performed towards the back of your character. Sifu is without a shadow of a doubt a 10-10 game for me. It's a combat game. No scripted walking sequences, no long cutscenes. It's visuals are stylish (as in, crafted towards a style, rather than graphical fidelity), so in 10 years it's going to be as valid as it is now. And the same gameplay works on SO MANY different levels of mastery. This review seems to be from a very surface level perspective, where you are just scraping by with the basic level understanding of the game's mechanics. Just try to parry and dodge-correctly and politely wait for your turn to attack. But as you say, once you know you can use a ducking strike to dodge a high and attack at the same time and stun an enemy. Or how you can toss enemies into one another and cancel animations by dodging and dashing and do it again with no downtime. I love how it's aging system eases players into a very punishing low health system where you can get chained into death from full hp by messing up just once, but you can still keep going, and once you really get into it you know you got messed up because you made that mistake. Not to mention the addition of FREE dlc with awesome content. Sifu is what modern games lost sight of. This review, just as God Hand's IGN review NEEDS a second take after two years.

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

I think the biggest missed opportunity for me with Sifu is the lack of traditional Chinese martial arts weapons. This is a game that claims to be inspired by classic kung-fu movies, and where you can pick up and use weapons temporarily like in an arcade beat em up. But the only traditional chinese martial art weapon usable in this entire game is the staff. Which is a traditional weapon in many martial arts cultures and, therefore, shows up all the time in video games too. The butterfly swords, guandao, tassled spear, trident halberd, Jian, Dao, crutch, three-sectional staff, iron whip, iron fan... NONE of these are in this game! The knife isn't even an appropriate kind of knife. It's some fucking wakizashi-looking shit. Also, I don't think Sifu is very influenced by classic kung fu movies generally. The levels and bosses are more closely indicative of *modern* martial arts movies, many of which are not Chinese. The first level is a mix of The Raid and Oldboy. It steals the Oldboy fight wholecloth, except it lacks the dynamism of that fight because enemies/the player don't show fatigue or battle damage. The squat buildings are straight out of The Raid-I even saw the fucking staircase. Stage 2 boss seems more like Avatar: The Last Airbender than an actual kung fu movie. Stage 3 boss is straight ripped from Kill Bill Vol. 1. Stage 4 boss is whatever... Again, I have no idea what movie is supposed to be inspiring some random underground dig site or a boss swinging around a manriki (mall ninja) chain. The only movie that seems anything like this is Blade 1. Stage 5 boss feels generic as fuck to me. The 2nd phase is dark and bland in a "unity assets stock filters" way. The gameplay seems fine but it doesn't feel to me like a game made by people who love and understand classic kung fu movies. As I said, it feels more like what you'd get from a team who enjoy *modern* martial arts movies. *Classic* kung fu movies were typically all filmed either on location in some rural setting or in small studio backlots. Did even one area in Sifu have that design or aesthetic? I would argue hell no. There are no outdoor levels and no small, densely-packed town sets. For the most part, the levels take place in these huge fuckoff buildings. The lighting is also extremely harsh, where old kung fu movies tended to use warm or soft lighting and vibrant, sometimes garish colors. The whole green/blue/white filter thing is from modern martial arts films. TL;DR martial arts movie nerd yells at clouds. Don't hand me kill bill vol 1 and tell me it's avenging eagle.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh hell yes!! Agreed 💯 here. As a big fan of martial art movies myself yeah the game did not deliver that feel at all. I like oldboy but it s barely a martial art movie ha, yeah they needed to go way harder on that stuff for sure. Also where are the nunchucks?!

[@paxhumana2015]

People that yell at clouds tend to yell as I take the lives from their bodies.

[@itanocircus2106]

Yea that’s tru! It’s not even giving as much 80’s Jackie Chan, so to speak, as previously thought. Not that I hate what it actually has but huh

[@manuel1835-m7n]

@TheSamuraiGoomba Great post! I know two years have passed, but I'll try to ask. Do you know any good games for people who love old Chinese action movies?

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

@@manuel1835-m7n A couple. Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks is pretty cool. It's definitely a western interpretation of chinese fantasy filtered through MK, but it's fun. I think there was a Jet Li video game for ps2? And John Woo had a game called Stranglehold. God Hand had a lot of representation from different martial arts styles. Mostly western or japanese, but drunken kung fu did sneak in there. Jade Empire was bioware's attempt to make a wuxia RPG. It's fun as long as you keep in mind it's a more fantasy-oriented take, with mystical creatures. There's an old computer game called Prince of Qin. And an old PSP title called Kingdom of Paradise which was another odd little Wuxia action-rpg. I'm sure there must be more I've forgotten. And many more that were never translated from Chinese, such as the Xuan Yuan sword series of rpgs. There was a Jin Yong rpg as well (Jin Yong is the chinese Tolkien when it comes to Wuxia, and many kung fu films were inspired by his books.) Some upcoming games coming from China and the indie space also look promising. There's that Black Myth: Wukong Game, Code: To Jin Yong and a few others whose names I've forgotten. There are also arcade games like Tiger Road, Yae-Ar Kung Fu and Shao-Lin's Road.

[@notnoaintno5134]

Imo there's nothing worse in an action game than a lack of feedback when you hit enemies. I hate it when you have these doofy hits in games, you can't feel em. it doesn't have to be like an action movie where the camera is shaking and can't stay in one place for more than half a second but I don't think it should be like I'm watching surveillance camera footage either, which is what it kinda feels like here. I'm not involved with what's going on in the game I'm just watching it if that makes sense.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes exactly, this is a really important aspect of character action games and something I think is going in the wrong direction a bit. I get the idea of zooming out for a better view, but if you don't keep that camera dynamic it does feel like surveillance footage ha, rather then in person combat.

[@TheOneAndOnlySame]

6:30 it's because the game tries to surf on the Dishonored success . It's a French series, and it was praised for its art style. So the guys in Sifu were like "welp, we french, we do that French thing " . Why? You know in France, there's a myth that has been developed that's called "the french touch" I do not know who coined this term . It's some sort of nationalistic myth peddled by the medias/politics/Etc to French people to rub them up the right way. It can be about anything. If something French gets international recognition? It's thanks to "the French touch". And all of a sudden, this new thing becomes somehow part of the French identity to an extent and you'll see plenty of copy cats but they won't get called like that, they do not imitate, oh no,, this is the French touch after all. That's a stupid fucking arrogant concept that implies if we don't succeed generally (in popular cinema, popular music, video game) it's because we don't really try, because it's below us. "You know we have many more titles in much more noble things like arts, literrature, serious music , real cinema etc ..." . But when we succeed it's because we just "touched" it with our Frenchitude. I HATE this shit 7:00 oh, that's because we are French. We don't do that. We let the other lower people do those vulgar things. We don't need to pander to your base instincts, no Sir, we are above that, our creations shine for its deepness, our shit doesn't stink like yours, our shit is ART . France is culturally suffocating under the leftism political correctness elitist shit attitude.

[@Seph4096]

Most of the Ninja Gaiden community loves the game. Not perfect, but it's nice to see a good action title release for once, seems so rare these days.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I do like the linear level design a lot, I hope we see more linear games

[@tonyc3282]

Aah Mark, you reminded me of just how great Team Ninja was! They always seemed to extract the best out of whatever hardware they where working with. Awesome Developers.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely! Team ninja in the 360 days were insane in the best way. I think they are slowly getting their mojo back, we ll see with ng4 if they ever make it

[@flutebasket4294]

Ninja Gaiden 1 (xbox) might just be the greatest game ever made

[@futureskeletons66669]

I was just about to post about IGN's infamous God Hand review, then you mentioned it. What needs to happen now is for Platinum to play this and make their own slightly more arcade flavored version.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

That would be cool!!! Fingers crossed bayo 3 is good!

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

I could see a Sifu 2 being quite excellent, if they take this core gameplay and add a shitload more weapons, more enemies, better hit feedback, more environmental variety (outdoor levels maybe?), more playable characters/martial styles... Basically just upgrade all this shit.

[@futureskeletons66669]

@@TheSamuraiGoomba Imagine this with a little more detail on flair and health pickups in the form of giant glowing Final Fight burgers and fruit with sort of comic book style *kapow* *boom* and so on, on hits. They could have made so much more of this than they did. But, as a template for 3D beaters going fwd they've seemingly done a good job. I hope others expand on it.

[@thevelvetroom9449]

i watch electric underground for statements like "you cant macro around, the game wants you z-targeted" I don't think i've ever seen a game critic speak in these terms, ever.

[@boghogSTG]

Yeah the review seems about right. I enjoyed the game but it's one of those games you can "get" quickly since it's just a really cool & fancy Simon Says spinoff. Still a ood time if you get it on sale. Though the aging system has another really good pro that arcade game devs can learn from - it encourages getting better at earlier stages just to have more "resources" for later stages. Kinda exploiting the player's anxiety/laziness.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes I love the way the aging system works! It's like a secret credit system but in a way that doesn't annoy modern players ha, since modern players hate credit/continue systems for some reason - maybe because they feel more arbitrary then a system like this.

[@Galaxy40k]

Great video Mark! I know that shmups are you and the channels lifeblood, but I love when you cover other genres, the insights you bring as an "arcade gamer" are really different and insightful. Whenever I boot up Castlevania or Ghosts N Goblins now think about how in your Rondo of Blood video you related the strict jump arc to a fighting game and how it's a positioning tool. Blew my mind since 99% of other people say how they're annoyed by the jumping not being Mario Bros.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I m really glad to hear that!! Yes a goal of the channel is to talk about game mechanics in a more serious way because it s funny how little mainstream reviewers look at gameplay mechanics outside of very broad overview. Everyone wants to talk about the story and blah blah blah ha

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@diydylana3151 what TEU said, is it also the reason why scoring mechanics, risk and reward stuff, character's arsenal and enemy placement are barely even mentioned?

[@huevonesunltd]

Even in most modern metroidvanias i have seen there's this trend of games being very similar to sekiro or from software games in combat, mostly about either dodging or parrying so it's mostly timing based, unlikely to beat it with pure fundamentals the very first time and more about memorization which anybody can do with enough tries, i have seen notably bad players (with that i mean players who take around 50 to 60 hours to beat megaman 2 the very first time, which normally what i would see is around 5 hours) manage to beat those games eventually, Ender Lillies is also an example of this kind of boss design, bosses want you to do specific things to beat them, they are more similar to Punch Out or a Rhythm game. But in Rabi Ribi which also combines shmups with platforming, there's none of that, bosses go crazy and there's plenty of ways to deal with them at the same time because you have many options, no dodge button or parry so it's more about avoiding or micro dodging the attacks/bullets completely instead of "Press button when this happens to dodge or parry then attack"

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah exactly it s almost like making real time combat somewhat turn based, honestly I think that s kind of the idea and why they are sort of popping up everywhere, it an easy to understand universal system (which has it s drawbacks I would say)

[@Vipa567]

But that's basically what learning fundamentals is - memorization.

[@jerm5466]

16:33 tons of beautiful gameplay out there. You just have to use the right moves / combo strings. Use moves like duck punch that both dodge an attack and start a combo.

[@viewtifuljoe99]

Might want to adjust the end card. Seems to be linking to a video outside your channel in that playlist. Unless that's your intention but it doesn't seem relevant.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Damn end cards!!! Thanks for the heads up, youtube just changed their end card system again it looks like you have to manually add elements or something.

[@riffmason]

Great to see a review of this on the channel, I really enjoyed their previous game Absolver and I'm definitely interested to get this. It seems from what you've said that the combat system might have been made a little more accessible this time round but that possibly some of the flexibility has been lost as a result. I'll definitely play this though too before I come to any final judgements about which combat system I prefer though. It'd be interesting to see you play Absolver one day in the future to see what you think about the combat system in that because it is extremely unique!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah it is really hard to know a game s feel until you get your hands on it :-) I hope the review goes help give you an idea at least ha

[@juan.v9952]

any plans on making a Nioh 2 video?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes!!!

[@juan.v9952]

@@TheElectricUnderground bro, that's the one I've been waiting for, especially since it has several NG stuff in it. Hopefully you also get around to playing Stranger of Paradise, which comes out in March.

[@REDLINE.FGC1]

Literally agree with everything you said is subjective. I really don't like the visuals, it looks lifeless, almost. And as a martial arts nerd, I also don't like the fighting. It's mocapped by some bak mei practitioner, but I think it just looks flaccid, or that the moves don't look like real fighting moves. edit: watched the rest and agree totally, people are gonna get sick at me for bringing this up all the time, but God Hand has similar issues when it comes to dealing with *some* attacks, in that you need to deal with them one way ("technically", you can stuff and dodge in multiple ways, but the game is so fast, you'll likely do that by accident and err in favour of the safest option)

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah the animations and combat need more bite!!

[@REDLINE.FGC1]

@@TheElectricUnderground I did a big rant about it on twitter with examples recently. Even just the special animations. They're supposed to be" gritty and brutal " but they just come across as silly seeing a dude get punches 4 times and not reeling back.

[@dusathemaid]

@@REDLINE.FGC1 That surprised me too. Some of the moves just felt like the MC was bitch slapping the enemies, but they were reacting like they were receiving 5 One Inch Punches per second. It felt kinda weird

[@dr_ubo]

The prequel "Absolver" was an indie darling and the combat system was always praised. Absolver was given for free everywhere and was also deeply discounted many times. This Sifu is like the polished continuation of Absolver in many ways as far as I can understand. I have yet to play this game, but I'm not too surprised at the amount of hype it's getting. Will have to give it a shot sometime.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah I was thinking something like that is going on honestly ha, like this game must have some previous traction to be getting such positive reviews.

[@Sultansekte]

Maybe it sounds a bit stupid, but have you ever played Doom Eternal? For me this really has the feeling of a beat em up/character action type game comparable to RE4. Of course it's a shooter, but the essence of the decision making in an arena combat with enemy control/combos/positioning and ressource management is definitely there.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh i have played doom 2016 and yes I could very easily see the action game influences on the design, where the glory kills are basically the limb system of NG2! I liked doom 2016 a lot, one of the rare modern games I played all the way till the end :-) So yes I will absolutely get around to doom eternal as well.

[@user-vx4vr8rb7i]

Between linear and open world I like linear more, too.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely!!!

[@Arandui]

So the combat has the same flaw as Doom Eternal: puzzle combat. Which means the developer force you to play the game in a strict specific way. If you try something else, you will be punished very hard.

[@quackstack4246]

Doom Eternal doesn't have that flaw, Sifu does. In Doom Eternal breaking weak points is not only unecessary but is almost always inefficient and you have a lot of tools at your disposal. Even Marauders which are an exception to this reward experimentation by letting you stagger & combo them using splash damage.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes I would say it s that way, though the game does have some flexibility it is still pretty strict in how it wants you to play

[@Arandui]

@@quackstack4246 It has the same flaw. Every combat situation in Doom Eternal is a puzzle. If you try to fight in your own way, which is not planed by the developer, you will be punished by death or losing a lot of resources.

[@quackstack4246]

@@Arandui What way is that? The only thing I can think of is playing passively which...yeah, of course. But that's like saying Ninja Gaiden sucks cause you can't stay in a corner and throw shuriken at enemies.

[@Arandui]

@@quackstack4246 Ninja Gaiden gives you the freedom to play like you want without forcing you in a specific way. Doom Eternal wants you to play in a specific way and punishes you, if you try something different. Doom Eternal is a puzzle game.

[@nepu47]

First of all, There is not only one kung-fu style in the world and this game is specifically related with pak-mei(which is inspired by southern chinses kung-fu style).so "the lack of traditional Chinese martial arts weapons" is... not... fit in here. And yeah, this is not a simulator but a game though it has a certain appeal and fantasy of this methodical style. ok? Secondly, I know that your review is from February so tech or comobo is not well developed nor known in that time. I don`t wanna say about super dizzy status or wall-combo because I also found it later, so It`s not fair to your critique. But even given to that, I think that your comparision between Japanese character action game is not legit. Especially, if you compare with Ninja Gaiden. "Most" of Ninja Gaiden bosses, especially from NG1, are almost flexible/forceful as sifu imo. Alma(F&&CKING twice), That whatever tentacle thing, Big gun guy... And NG2 also have those annoying bosses like a big water dragon. Ninja Gaiden has more options to approach, I agree, but the enemies of NG have very critical projectiles and even some of them are flying. All enemies in sifu do more grounded approach, and even there is no jumping hopping enemies like "kick boxing type"(At least, girls don`t do this toward you from the end of screen). So I don`t know why you have to compare this "balanced differently" game with Japanese action games. I see this game being more similar to belt-scroll action games, because the positioning and space-awarness is key of this game Lastly, Yes, Sifu is a defensive game. It heavily leans on parry. But It`s not like DDR imo. You can choose from defect, guard and sway. They make more dyniamic relationship between structure meters in comparison to Sekiro. Even you are a defensive player, you would have more options and tactics to deal with other enemies.

[@rahndail3863]

How does the game do with the posture meter mechanics? One thing I loved about Sekiro was the flexibility in that regard. Although defense was an option in the game, offense was often just as viable, and it sounds like the main emphasis of this game is blocking and parrying. One review I read also alluded to the level design as being a big part of the combat equation, in that you can throw enemies off certain roofs, use environmental weapons like chairs and bats, etc. Seems like what you're saying though is that those options aren't the most viable, in that defensive play is optimal; is that right?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah to clarify that about the throwing people and using weapons. Using weapons is CLEARLY better then being unarmed, so you should always use weapons. And then on the point of throwing people and such, you actually can't perform a raw throw, you have to parry into a throw, so you need to play defensive to get the parry to get the throw. So sadly raw throws (which I would love) are not included in the gameplay.

[@ahmadkhairul337]

​​@@TheElectricUndergroundyeah this comment made me realize how little you delved into the mechanics lol. Using weapon restrict your attacking patterns. At high level play using weapon is even discouraged since some weapons outright prevented you from using certain moves. also parrying isn't the only way to throw lol.

[@raxzen-1610]

@@TheElectricUnderground This is 2 years too late, but the requirement for a throw is a DAZE, not a parry. You can get it by parrying, dodging and hitting, throwing an enemy (if you throw an enemy into another enemy, the one hit will become dazed), countering (either by performing an attack that dodges the enemy attack and hits simultaneously or by interrupting them with a stronger attack), and you can just push (back, forward, light attack) an enemy into another. That's 6 different ways of achieving it off the top of my head.

[@AaronPaden]

Personally I think the game is excellent. It's basically a really technical beat-em-up which is very much my jam. I don't mind extreme violence, but this one takes a different tone and that's fine IMO. One thing really **don't** like is the lock-on mechanic. It's too implicit and "smart", often to the detriment of the player. That works in batman where you're pinballing around enemies and it doesn't really matter that much if you target the wrong enemy most of the time. But it doesn't work so well here. I would really prefer a visual indicator of what enemy is locked on and a way to change targets and disengage, maybe with the right stick or something. The player really needs to be in full control of their movement and positioning in this game. EDIT: I definitely agree it would have been better to drop the unlockables. Mastery is progression enough, and the age system is a nice measure of mastery.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh very good point on the lock on system, I agree the lock on mechanic is very forceful ha. It also makes the camera go absolutely nuts at times, like in boss fights if you and the boss are both up against the wall, you get some lovely camera work of the back of your head XD

[@AaronPaden]

@@TheElectricUnderground Just thinking off the cuff, I actually think a fixed camera or tracking a linear path would work better. Maybe not during exploration, but during the combat sequences. That way, the developers can ensure they get nice, cinematic shots that also clearly show the combat area and promote visual during the fights. The hallway fight in lvl 1 worked great - it was both cool and functional - and I don't see any reason why the whole game couldn't be that way. Not the perspective, but the same sort of pre-programmed camera paths.

[@dusathemaid]

You pretty much explained exactly my problems with the game. This game lacks feedback in every aspect, specially in the combo mechanics. The offense skills are also a bit mundane and common place and they don't change the pace or the feel of the combat much. The limiting amount of offense moves you can do also dissapoints a little. And one last thing is that I think using the sticks to dodge feels really imprecise and rather clunky to use, especially since the enemies are very fast with their movements. Idk, I have beaten the game twice, already got the Wude ending, but I still can't tell if the game is satisfying or not. Sure, it's fun when you are beating the heck out of everyone, but so is every fighting game out there. It just feels like the game's mechanics are too barebones, even for an indie game. They have potential, but they never seem to reach it and while I love the difficulty it just seems like the game doesn't give you enough tools to try out new things or even to engage that difficulty in a new way. I guess it's part of the overall message and the design, but still...

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes I have very similar feelings as well, it s like when you eat a cheap meal where at first it s pretty rad but by the end your still hungry

[@gavi888]

sorry for being off-topic but out of curiosity are you a fan of furi? Or rather, do you appreciate it?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I haven't played it, the art style looks cool! I just wonder how good the gameplay is? I wish I could play a demo or something before buying it ha

[@gavi888]

@@TheElectricUnderground Honestly the gameplay is pretty simple, you pretty much described the design philosophy in this Sifu review (which is why I thought of it) but it's still fun to see what each of the bosses throws at you as they're all relatively unique. There's an annoying aspect of the story getting in the way in-between each boss but thankfully once you beat it there's a "speedrun" (read: bossrush) mode.

[@franciscor390]

I have to say this is the very best review i have seen on Sifu until now, and i actually like the game a lot, but all your points are meticulously explained and bulletproof. I definitely agree the combat approach is very western and therefore rhythm and reactionary based. I hope they don't go on and do a game of a completely different genre but instead go at it again, repetition is the only road to perfection.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I'm really happy to hear that!! Yeah I think a lot of the reviews got a bit swept up in the hype of the release ha, without discussing the combat system in depth and where it struggles. Yes, getting away from these western elements and pushing more into the arcade design would be great in the follow up!

[@zuffin1864]

I don't hate its visuals but it feels like an homage to fortnite 3d if anything lol

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I hate the way fortnite works so yeah, the visuals were not exactly winning me over XD I do get that this is fairly subjective art style wise, but I do think the game needs more effects and visual juice, even with its current art style.

[@maaramori3404]

Man burst counters in Nioh 2 are not that frequent to mark it as a counter game.

[@MasterSwordOblivion]

Something I think you don’t mention is that a perfect parry will never break your posture. The meter seems restrictive until you realize that as long as you have mastered how to face an enemy, you won’t lose. Yea moves ask you to dodge and duck attacks, but every attack in the game can be perfectly parried, allowing multiple responses to everything there is. Additionally, understanding the way that certain enemy moves open them up actually allows certain counter attacks. I can never sweep the final boss normally, but if I prep certain kicks or combos that shove downwards, he can be knocked down. It’s certainly a precision based game but there is a lot more leeway than your analysis makes it seem. Just my thoughts.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

That is true and an interesting aspect of the gameplay (I did notice the parry mechanic preserves meter) but in a way it's still coming down to an even stricter reliance on the parry system. What I was more getting at is having more options outside of the parry system, especially with movement mechanics or other types of offensive mix ups. Like in ninja gaiden you can parry most attacks, but it's not always this best strategy (versus a block cancel in movement or block cancel into jump) so I hope that helps clarify what I'm getting at.

[@nirjhar4803]

The thing is parrying at that high of a structure will never be a wise strategy at all, especially considering the incredibly tight windows and varied telegraphs/mixups enemies throw at you.

[@MasterSwordOblivion]

@@nirjhar4803 I Can understand that argument the first couple of run throughs and it’s a valid one. The counterpoint is that I believe the game wants players to master every single encounter and enemy to the point that any mix up will be countered. I understand this won’t fit with the majority of players who simply want a fun experience, but it can’t be denied that the games mechanics work around you mastering every encounter and as such there are multiple ways to win. Another example in the final boss is that one can dodge his quick flurry attacks but if you parry the first strike perfectly he is stunned. Thats what I mean.

[@marcoslopez127]

Mate, if you need a couple of run throughs to get a mechanic down… maybe the game isn’t doing this properly. Memorizing enemy attack patterns is not fun and it isn’t how combat works. A skillful player should be able to go into an encounter fresh and be able to figure it out.

[@nirjhar4803]

@@MasterSwordOblivion I apologize for not seeing this comment earlier, but what you described earlier is poor game design, imo. That and the added part there's quite literally so many mixups and different parameters for said mixups from each archetype and sub-archetypes that its basically counterproductive as a whole to try and memorize everything. This is coming from someone who literally attempted a no-hit aggressive all tech museum run and was able to do it (god knows how many tries it took) up until the last room before the boss. Everything Yang has in his arsenal is telegraphed very similiarly to the player, plus despite his mixups being varied they follow a rhythm you can get accustomed to quickly, and his heavies are well telegraphed and cued. So he's a pretty good opponent compared to the grunts and minibosses.

[@TrickyJebus]

Finally a reviewer that mentions God Hand. This game plays so similar to that. Of course I know absolver but it feels just the same

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes the game is pretty clearly inspired by some of the systems of godhand for sure!

[@JuN0]

there are hit sparks and there is blood, also its not going to play like those games because those characters are superhuman and also japanese games. this is french devs trying to make a more traditional style kung fu game, it's not going to have air combo's and crazy stuff like that. there are some some handsome looking combo's I've been using and executed in my last run if you are curious what could be possible in this game, you can actually play quite aggressively if you know how the enemies work and have strats.. the only problem I had with this game is that it needed a little more content maybe a boss rush mode or survival mode you could unlock, cosmetics is a good idea but I think it'd be worth it if the game had more modes ( like what we mentioned before a multiplayer mode co-op or something like that ) I heard they may add extra difficulties but outside of that not sure what else.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I do notice the little white hitsparks but I still feel they need more ummmph. I get the idea that the game want s to be a bit more realistic but then why go with the cartoon art style. Like I said in the review the presentation feels underwhelming and maybe if they had more realistic style then the more minimal animation and visual feedback would work better

[@Kooljupiter]

Not really related to this game, but did you ever play Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks back in the day? Had a lot of fun with that game back on Ps2/ Xbox with my brothers as a Co op 3d Beat em up; don't remember it being that hard though

[@kagemara277]

Is Sifu’s combat more fun than Batman Arkham games on high difficulty? This game seems to just build some things up, but Batman feels pretty similar. Which one would you say is overall better/more fun on high difficulty?

[@Tchiko.]

I was thinking of whish action game blew my mind in a relative modern era, did you try Star Fox Zero ? Despite bad reviews, for me it’s the best rail shooter ever, genius concept and good scoring. Amazing on CRT, and developed with PlatinumGames.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes and I love star fox zero (minus the hoover ship). Agreed it got done dirty by reviewers! I have an old vid about it actually. Warning it s from when I first started making vids but I ll probably redo the topic some day kzbin.info/www/bejne/jn7JgZSuiaephNk

[@Tchiko.]

@@TheElectricUnderground Oh that's cool, I'm glad you're in the Star Fox Zero Defence Force too cause we are few ! I will put a comment on the video, I like talking about this game. Here's a short run of me having a blast on the first stage, offscreen to see both screens, if you're curious : kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGPOgIOfetOobpY In the same topic of oldschool great game designs that are not understood very well by critics, the other heartbreaking exemple for me is R: Racing by Namco. I don't know if you're in racing games, but it's basicaly the arcade flawless sorcery of arcade Ridge Racer with good physics ahead of its time (compare to the main console games of its era), but you have to play it with a force feed back wheel to see what the developers had really done. Masterpiece for me. By the way thank you for Shmuparch 🙏

[@genegideon6705]

Dude, just found this video and your channel, instant sub. You said SO much in this vid I've been saying about this game since it launched, and it's infuriating how many people dismiss the greats in the genre to prop this up. The absolute biggest thing for me, which I'm happy you touched on, is the focus on DDR-style defense, rather than letting the player get creative and risky with offense. Enemies always just start blocking or dodging your attacks after just a couple hits, and they do the annoying Arkham/Mordor style magnetization that makes spacing irrelevant, so you have to do the "correct" defensive answer every single time. When you do the same string of dodge, dodge, parry hundreds of times, it gets incredibly old. You also used the best game possible to highlight hitstun; RE4 has so many different enemy animations, openings, and reactions to your different weapons and hit zones. Enemies in Sifu either just ignore you after a couple attacks so they can go back on the defense, or they just tank your hits, shifting the combat back into Simon Says. I can't stand games where enemies hardly react to your attacks, and it is increasingly becoming the norm. In NG2, you can go into a pack of ninjas and use a huge variety of the dozens of moves in that game and evoke a response from the enemies which generate new openings for you. A lot of action games just don't have that sort of design any more.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

That s awesome to hear!!! Yes I love discussing game mechanics in depth on the channel which tend to be completely glossed over in mainstream reviews :-) keep an eye out for my discussion of Elden rings combat in a vid coming very soon. You may also like my vid on Castlevania that I did a while back :-)

[@genegideon6705]

@@TheElectricUnderground I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts on ER as a Nioh fan! And I will definitely check out the CV vid, huge fan of the series

[@RewdanSprites]

Good review! Was fun to watch the live stream. Ain't you going to play Elden ring when that comes out? I pre-ordered mine 😅. I like nitty gritty art styles as well but I wasn't put off by sifu's art. Looks decent. Some Bruce Lee style neck snaps would be badass though. Haven't played Sifu yet but it looks good to watch. You can see the martial arts movie influence there. Should probably mention Shadow of war is one of my favourite character action games. Can do stealth things can do a wide variety of insane moves and the nemesis system is legit. It's like if batman was told to go and kill a bunch of orcs viciously.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I think I am going to play elden ring actually! I think it will be an interesting game to discuss on the channel, as it's like this weird combo of rpg and character action.

[@RewdanSprites]

@@TheElectricUnderground Yeah. I've been a fan of the souls series for a while now. Mostly because of PvP. I think it's going to be so big one way or the other it would be silly to miss out on the action. So much people hyping and going crazy. What platform you getting it on? I'm grabbing it for pc. Hopefully it will work 🤣.

[@LetsChat]

Here's my impression with the game. It's Punch-Out but a Kung Fu game in the form factor of Hades.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha yeah I can def see that 🤣

[@ps3inquisition441]

The prices of games don’t ever bother me. I paid $50 for new NES games back in the day. 32X games were $70. I only care if it’s worth playing, and I’m not seeing much I like with this one yet.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah game pricing is a really interesting topic actually, and probably my next vid will actually be about game prices, funny enough. I think in an absolute sense $40 isn't too crazy or anything, just relative to other games on the market (like ketsui deathtiny) it seems a bit over priced, but not something that I'll get all fired up about or anything. Most people tend to undervalue games, rather then overvalue them I would say.

[@jkm669]

Thx for your thorough review. I'll be waiting on a sale

[@TheElectricUnderground]

No problem! Yes that is what I would do now that I have bought and played the game

[@sHiNkAoLaSu]

this is exactly the type of stuff I wanted to know before buying or not buying this game, thank you Mark and well done ! PS: did you give Furi a shot? I'm a bayonetta4life kinda guy, did not have a good time on this one..

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I m glad to help!!! No I did not end up trying furi, the art style is pretty cool but the gameplay seems a bit slow paced. I haven't tried it though

[@sHiNkAoLaSu]

@@TheElectricUnderground well yeah, it looks awesome and the music is dope, but to me gameplay is more like DDR+rock paper cisors than anything else

[@nirjhar4803]

@@TheElectricUnderground The fights in Furi are long but the combat is actually fast paced(depending on you more than the boss) until the last 1 or 2 phases where the boss usually throws a long bullet hell segment on you.

[@michelecatani9295]

Thanks for the review, I was curious about the game, but I'm waiting for a price drop, I have a lot of backlog by the way..,

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Glad to help! Yeah that is what I would do

[@radiorah768]

Nice review! We have similar taste in action games so I appreciate your analysis of the mechanics. Definitely gave me a good idea of how it plays. I'll probably pick it up on sale if they ever port it to Steam.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I think it would be a fun recommend around $30, 40 does seem a bit steep though

[@michaelsteiner5203]

Nice discussion of difficulty curve and presentation - I think Japanese games are more pure "object" like where the game isn't as concerned with holding or influencing your interaction with it. But even within this style of game recently, I've still noticed a huge shift in attitude towards KOF 15 compared to GG Strive or other recent games

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah not to be too much of a stinker about it, but it seems like the idea of more raw action style games is coming back into being stylish again, but a lot of these reviewers haven't really played this style of games over the years, so they aren't going to really hone in on the actual details of the combat system too much.

[@michaelsteiner5203]

@@TheElectricUnderground I hope there continues to be space for this style of game in AAA, I think Ace Combat 7 was the last AAA game that felt unapologetic in design

[@PedroFerreira-sx2gd]

Just played the game in a friend house just too see the hype. It is a good game but far from being a master piece. I agree with most of tour opinions. It is very mechanical game. The age system is interesting but bad implemented.it is interesting in a sense that there diferençes in the Gameplay for diferent ages. Would prefer a selectable age and a classic bar life for each walkthrough . Also hate the dependêncy of the result of early stages. Sounds a excuse to increase the longevity. The only think i dont agree with you is the graphics. They have a certain a cartoon vibe that Will stand the test of time. Hate realístic graphics.

[@hartspunken4830]

Excellent Review!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thanks so much Hart! It was fun to talk about the combat mechanics, as I don't get a lot or opportunities to do so with newer games.

[@soraudagawa3022]

Hey Mark, have you tried Sekiro? Imo its the most gameplay focussed game by Fromsoft while also being more linear than their other games (or at least it feels like it). Edit: After hearing your Sifu criticisms I can definitely tell you will absolutely adore Sekiro. Combat is deep and satisfying, with many possibilities due to the Shinobi tools. There's a ton of feedback when you attack and stuff and the art is absolutely amazing, using a feudal japanese gritty artstyle.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I have played a bit of it and yes I did enjoy it :-) I will play it more here pretty soon :-)

[@soraudagawa3022]

@@TheElectricUnderground Ohhh, will be definitely looking for that then. Are you planning on streaming it then? I beat it last week on Stadia and its honestly such a great and fun game.

[@feedgaming8839]

The Electric Underground Excellent ❤️👍👍 Very good video 👍 good jab, Like!!!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thanks so much my dude!

[@EdgardR.]

Honestly been on the fence about this game because some people recommend it and today I remembered it because I discovered there's a new Sekifu-like "En Garde" which is all about parrying. These damn parrys are gonna eat us man.

[@adamlindh9012]

While I have thoroughly enjoyed your game commentary, I would strongly disagree with your classification of Sifu as a character action game. It is a beat 'em up with some roguelite elements.

[@danny833]

I would argue that "character action games" are literally just 3d beat 'em ups, and it's not at all difficult to track the lineage from 2d to 3d beat 'em ups.

[@chrismoon2961]

Always appreciate your content and opinions, but Nioh over Bloodborne?! Just SMH.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes I like Nioh's combat system and level design more :-)

[@Mingodough]

I never was interested in this game it looked kinda… generic? Idk I was more interested in that samurai jack action game. I just bought it today actually, you know that game had ex team ninja devs working on it? Maybe you should try it when it goes on sale :p

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha that sounds interesting!!! I do love team ninja!!

[@GaijinController]

I'm going to have to half agree with you on the removal of the progression system. Me personally I love having to learn the fundamentals of the combat system while gradually unlocking moves on repeat levels. The draw to me is finding uses for the moves that can be both stylish and purposeful cause the game does give you quite a bit of leeway for combining when you figure things out. I think for the casual player as well having every move from the jump could be overwhelming especially when they have extra inputs. I do think unlockable costumes should've been a thing especially if you're not PC. Overall still a very well done review

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thanks my dude!!!

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

Watching this game makes me miss linear stage progression rpg. Its same for 2d platformer, metroidvanias arent working on me aswell.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

YES, I've been wanting to play some kind of rpg like that lately just to talk about, but all the rpg these days are open world/visual novel/dating sim to the point where you can't get right into the gameplay, even by rpg standards.

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@TheElectricUnderground ughh, visual novel and dating sim element..... I got alot of complains about them but its abit hard to talk about

[@Palavon_of_Shiraz]

I haven't played this, but I feel like you described Sekiro.

[@PaStef37]

At last someone not drooling on the game lol. I also don't like the low polygon art style (never do). I didn't notice the lack of combat effects but indeed. Anyway, my parents always told me not to play with my food, even sea food.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I do think it's a bit odd how strong the praise for the game has been, when it is pretty clearly lacking in certain realms like the visuals and content (by mainstream standards certainly), whereas I am more lenient on content as long as the gameplay is very compelling, but in this game's case I think that the visuals and somewhat limited combat really hold the game back from that 9/10 territory

[@ahmadkhairul337]

Do you hate any game with a different art style than the usual?

[@KLiNoTweet]

The 2.5 d level I like the best. They should have made the whole game 2.5 d.

[@SyncWaveyPlays7124]

Comparing this game to dmc is weird because it's not trying to be like that at all, this game is more realistic we not trying to do a 100 hit combo then taunt at the end of it lol and the fighting style is called pak mei which is a offensive fighting style like wing chun, also there is moves that pretty brutal and breaks limbs I confused when you said you didn't see anything like that, but anyway I'm not trying to be funny or anything have a good day sir.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I do get that and like I said I don t dislike the game or anything and I felt it is a step in the right direction, especially with it s level design, but as a game I do think it's combat system is a bit limited. Another example that could be pointed to then is virtual fighter, which has realistic fighting styles but also a deep and engaging fighting system and a more realistic presentation. If the game is meant to be realistic then I m not sure a parry system even makes sense, as opposed to holds and throws. Parries are very video game.

[@SyncWaveyPlays7124]

@@TheElectricUnderground parrying isn't realistic? that isn't true parrying is redirecting a attack away from you so it doesn't hit you, parrying is used in martial arts even if they don't call it a parry I'm saw you've seen boxers do this no?

[@Pumpkin_King0]

compare it to mulan sounds racist as

[@Kikoman589]

You were repeating yourself a bit too much I think, but it seems like a good breakdown of the game. I like all the comparisons to other games for reference too.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah I think I repeated once section just try to and emphasize it later toward the end vid, I could have cut that probably ha.

[@savlosavage]

This game is Mario bros. With elaborate enemy kills. Instant classic

[@marcoslopez127]

Best review that I have seen of this game. Got the physical copy and started playing it last night. Very disappointed after being a fan of Absolver.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Glad to help. Yes I don't think the game is bad or anything, but the reviews for it needed to be more critical, there were a lot of points of improvement or at least warning for potential players.

[@marcoslopez127]

@@TheElectricUnderground I was hoping for more control over my moves. For example, in Absolver, I would be able to pick if I am jabbing, throwing a leg kick, throwing a hook. I could bait opponents into messing up. Use footwork or pressure to be as offensive or defensive as I wanted to be. I am glad that you compared it unfavorably to Sekiro, as in Sekiro you could be offensive and try to break down a character's guard. This was particularly effective against Genichiro whereas other fights require you to be more cagey. They game would demand different styles for different opponents. Not here! Just memorize the attack pattern and hope to get shots in after they finish. They might decide to immediately recover from the animation or you might get a heavy attack combo that melts their health. Who knows? I was so excited for this game that I held off for the physical copy. I am glad that there are honest reviewers like you telling people the truth.

[@mishikomishiko9088]

I don't dig the art direction choices in this game. And that's always extremely important for me. For some reason everything in this game looks kinda polygonal like a ps/ps2 game.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yep it's a shame. It is like a beefed up ps2 game ha.

[@LowKeyTired-q7d]

Visually doesn't look good ... the corridors look like control ...

[@Seph4096]

Also Ninja Gaiden 2 (360) is goated

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely!!!

[@AlastairGames]

Great review! So much more detailed and meaty than a big game journlolist.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I m happy to hear that!!! Mission accomplished

[@neonknight5857]

I swear to god I’m listening to my own brain review the Souls games.

[@KLiNoTweet]

Diablo IV is so much worse than D3, and the open world plays a central role in that generic mess. This here is far better.

[@MrHimphilly]

I mean no Ill intent here but I think you over analyzed this game with more opinion than actual facts which is subjective … this game is literally the talk of the console right now with horizon and it’s an indie game priced at $40 it’s not main stream at all … for its price point and for the amazing challenge it provides this game is the best of 2022 SO FAR but you definitely sold it very very short by eating away of what it lacked by the standards of your personal preference … im sure this game will get a sequel and some of things you mentioned it lacked will be added in the next installment

[@MrHimphilly]

As far as artwork the new gaming trend that I’ve seen from indie is to make us guess the graphic design but make us tend to forget all about it by it’s gameplay a perfect example of That is returnal no Way did I imagine having that much fun as an astronaut but the gameplay made my personal preference irrelevant

[@TheElectricUnderground]

ahh yes a broader question really that will probably continue to separate my reviews from other reviews, a question of how rigorous my reviews should be compared to other outlets and such. So yes I do recognize that the game is getting strong reviews from critics 9/10's and such, and by my own metrics I would consider this a pretty positive review on my part (I did ultimately recommend the game at a bit of a lower price point). But no I'm not going to fall in line with the standards of other reviewers because I don't think most gaming outlets have any sort of consistent standard really, it's just mostly about creating a consensus and making sure everyone abides by it ha. So my reviews just by default are likely going to be more critical then other channels and such, though from time to time I may be more positive towards a game then the mainstream (like Star Fox Zero). One way to think about it is that I'm not even sure how I will review a game until I play it, but normally it's pretty easy to predict how other outlets will review a game before it comes out. For example, Elden Ring will likely get glowing reviews from critics, 9/10 to 10/10 territory.

[@yagami999913]

So i just tried the game on PS+ yesterday, and the generic main character design and overall blandness totally prevented me from enjoying what looked like a very promising game. Really missed opportunity to use maybe cell-shaded graphics like in Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z or the Telltale games. It would have totally sold me on the game.

[@Mister_Don888]

Ok first off, SIFU ISN'T A CHARACTER ACTION GAME!! I don't know how you got this idea that it was, but clearly it's not, and I find it very unfair of you to compare it to DMC and other games like it when it's obviously trying NOT to be like those games. Sifu is an evolution of the Batman Arkham style combat (with a bit of Sekiro) where its more animation based, instead of based on hitboxes, stuns, or whatever DMC is about. Second, Sifu does have more offensive options. When you die, you get to upgrade your character to have more moves, and your attacks do more damage. Plus, one of the core things Sifu wants you to taake advantage of is the environment. You can jump over and throw things at enemies to stun them and do more damage. Honestly, this whole video just feels like you wanted to go in and dislike the game because IGN and Gamespot liked it.

[@Barney_rubble983]

New costume?😂😅😅 Nothing worse than going through a tough area opening a reward chest and getting a new headband.

[@shinbakihanma2749]

In other words, you cannot express yourself in this game via combat, like you would in DMC or Ninja Gaiden. Those are the issues I have with Dark Souls and it's clones.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Exactly! it's much more of a closed combat system in that way.

[@shinbakihanma2749]

@@TheElectricUnderground Love your channel and content, btw.

[@inrptn]

You can definitely express yourself in Dark Souls combat, but it's tied to character / stats and weapon / item choice. It's not so "pure." But there wouldn't be tons of builds / styles, some of which are very different from each other if it wasn't possible to express yourself. Nioh 2 took things a step further in the Souls formula in this regard.

[@shinbakihanma2749]

@@inrptn No, you can't. Picking character classes and adjusting stats, is NOT "expressing yourself" via combat.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

@@shinbakihanma2749 Thanks so much my dude!

[@theninjararar]

kinda sounds like tales of vesperia

[@destroyerdev6650]

This is the only game journalist I can even say is a actually reviewer of games. I really would love to read their zine.

[@radiantt1]

Play God Hand!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I shall!

[@Wulfpack1]

I liked the game but my walk to the grocery store in this hood is more dangerous than the shit in Sifu. Im my opinion Absolver kinda put me off this at first then when I got into a groove it got better. PS GOD HAND is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiit and Ninja Gaiden 2 is the goat for me for these types

[@davis1228]

"Mainstream = I dont like" Sounding kinda like a hipster. I'm not often drawn to mainstream games, but im flexible and varied enough to enjoy games of all sorts, regardless. And you want more violence, but I think it rides the line in a nice spot rather than being overly gratuitous in glorifying gory violence like Ninja Gaiden and Mortal Kombat, which appeals to the simpleminded desensitized mases. Being as you're someone whose favorite genres are archaic to their own detriment, hates any semblance of story in games, and wants nonstop action density suited for comical levels of ADD/ADHD, I was curious to hear what you say but I really can't assign much value to the opinions of those who've proven themselves to be closed-minded. And, it seems I was right to go in with that mentality, as I find a lot of your points disagreeable or outright wrong. Like the "Z Target" comment. The game doesn't hard target you to enemies, as its quite easy to disengage and reposition or change yoiur attack target by simoly pressing stick towards a new enemy and attacking. Movement and fighting multiple opponents is actually quite fluid. Also, there are safe offensive approach options, like the running thrust kick. The game is just designed so that you won't be rewarded for button mashing or only attacking and never defending, and that's objectively good gameplay design that fighting games should use more. You aren't supposed to feel OP until you acheive flawless skillful play. I prefer that, as power trip games feel brainless and boring. No one is invincible, and by making you feel human, the game is a satisfying challenge. Lastly, you're clearly out of touch with the broader gaming industry, but no good single player action game lets players have access to every skill from the start. Unlocking upgrades and skills let's you customize your moveset and passives to suit your own fighting style. That sense of personalization is objectively good game design that keeps more types of people engaged. You're just an outlier, being as your favorite games are niche due to their often flawed design having narrow intended audience of non/anti mainstream people.

[@quackstack4246]

You're not wrong about Mark being close minded and rigid when it comes to the game's structure and unlocks since that's what modern players tend to like (which isn't bad at all, reviewers should make their preferences explicit otherwise how would you trust them?), but nah his mechanical criticisms are mostly pretty spot on. The soft lock kinda sucks, it can be really janky when dealing with crowds if you want an example do some running attack openers against densely packed crowds of enemies, the game will often just not listen to you. Granted, this isn't a problem exclusive to Sifu. The focus mechanic is even worse, they took the roulette wheel mechanic and removed manual target switching from it which completely breaks it in many situations. And what action games mentioned don't punish you for not playing carefully? If anything, Sifu lets you get away with a lot of button mashing. The parries are some of the most mash friendly in the genre outside of Sekiro, mashing weave dodges is practically OP, and mashing attacks is perfectly acceptable since recovery can be interrupted with duck dodges. So I don't know what you're comparing it to here. Lots of good sp action games let you have your full moveset from the start, even newer ones like SOR4. They have other unlocks, even unlockable characters, but that's not nearly as much of a problem.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I don t think it s fair to say that I'm closed minded, I did play the entire game and beat it after all :-) It is true that I am much more critical then most game reviewers when it comes to my preferences in game design, but does the world need just one more reviewer who goes along with the mainstream and passively repeats what everyone else is saying? I can understand that you don t agree with me, but my review has given you a lot to think about, you have to admit that at least ;-)

[@HeemiTeRuu]

You should make a video now about how they added an easy mode 😔💯

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Of course they did :-(

[@HeemiTeRuu]

@@TheElectricUnderground the pressure of the modern gamer got to them.

[@DaveDEF82]

Comparing Sifu to Ninja Gaiden or DMC is bordering the dumbest thing I have ever heard in game 'journalism' ...

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I'm not sure why'd you say that. Sifu advertises itself as a "A third person action game featuring intense hand-to-hand combat," which would be the same genre as DMC or Ninja Gaiden, so the comparison makes plenty of sense.

[@JKSmith-qs2ii]

Then the developers released an update that adds easier modes etc.. betraying their own vision.

[@Mister_Don888]

How is it betraying their vision?

[@svenkamog2232]

Been gaming for a long time now. I could see this was gonna be a 6/10 a mile away 😂

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah I wish I could make my own number system that isn't going to fall into the inflation of today's modern review scores, I would probably rate it around 7/10 but in today's world that's like an average score ha and 9/10 is a good score, it's all mixed up that's why I don't use review scores but 9/10 seems generous when NG2 has been given about 8/10.

[@svenkamog2232]

Loved ninja gaiden, until the granade launchers

[@rohansensei5708]

Crowd control in this game felt like ''worse Ninja Gaiden'' and bosses ''worse Sekiro''. Enemy attacks are just weird, strong attacks and lows are not telegraphed at all. Roguelike/lite features and upgrade system was beyond horrible and was there only to hide the fact that game's comically short. Pak Mei isn't interesting at all and there's no way to change your fighting style which is odd since Absolver's way of creating your own character would fit way better to a roguelite game. Game's just about backing up and waiting for an opening and game punishes for being offensive, making the enemies spam strong attacks at the same time on all sides. Master mode is the worst hard mode I've ever seen in any game. Who thought that making bosses 50/50 attacks was a good idea? Game's a solid 7/10 but overrated af since IGN and some streamers said it's perfect.

[@ahmadkhairul337]

Lmfao. The same Ninja Gaiden where you literally hold block 99.9% of the time when there's multiple enemies around you? Idk what game you've been playing but Sifu doesn't do that. It encourage you to keep fighting even when cornered because your guard will break or enemy will use the unlockable throw move. This game has the best crowd control in any action game ever. When you're in the flow, you can actually control the enemies no matter the number or weapons or type. There's no bringing enemies to the air or dashing like a madman for an easy escape like DMC or holding block all the time like Ninja Gaiden. You actually need to engage in the combat. Just look at the club level. Ever wondered why so many people got a game over there? Agree about the boss tho. Tbf the game literally only has 4 boss lol and they all feel the same in a way.

[@Christopher_Roa]

Im not gonna lie, this game sounds terrible lol. Not for me, now the ninja gaiden trilogy? Devil may cry series? Still some of my favs to this day.

[@EpicLebaneseNerd]

i was interested but was more of a ''buy it on discount'' but then something happened, it got it for $9 on EGS thanks to discount and a $10 coupon, so i just had to pick it up. sadly, even for $9, i didn't think it was worth it, the initial OOOMPH it has goes away quick and i heard so many people on consoles just playing it for the platinum with no praise. i admit, it is fun and good and punishing, but i never had the ''come on, one more go'' like in other games like RETURNAL, but at least i got it at $9, not like i paid $40 for it, it is at best a $20 pick up. will give it more time and see if it grows on me.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah that is a weak point of the combat system where since it is so closed it can be a turn off early on. I felt the same way around hour 3 honestly. I will say that once you accept that the game is playing you, rather then the other way around ha, it does become more fun and interesting. But I do think that initial kick from the game is going to turn a lot of players off at first. I would actually recommend just watching some high level footage of the gameplay and analyzing it a bit, that's how I ultimately figured out what the game wants me to do.

[@Foxingban]

it's boring combat system like the batman games it's too auto

[@Palavon_of_Shiraz]

I haven't played this, but I feel like you described Sekiro.