Silver Sable Sucks

[@jdedrington]

My six-year-old was playing parts of this game. There are random NPCs on the street who will walk up and ask you for a high five. You can hit triangle and high five them. That is the extent of your interaction--high five, 5xp, some applause. They are more interesting, memorable, and impactful on my experience with this game than the captain of the goon squad herself.

[@kadariuscoston386]

😂😂dam. Facts tho

[@gringles]

Spider Man: “You guys should have brought more guns, I can dodge these bullets all day!” Also Spider Man: “Oh no, a kick!”

[@DavidRamirez-se2yt]

Plot armor haki

[@alexferrana3979]

It's just because Spider-Man oftenly holding back.

[@alexferrana3979]

@Cartoonist Louis agreed. He actually could just web her up and incapacitate Silver Sable. She doesn't have super-strength to rip this webbing apart.

[@terrors2572]

llmaoooo fr

[@superherochestsymbol1032]

@@alexferrana3979 He still could've just dodged lol

[@Username-wj8pz]

Spidey has actually faced off against Black Widow before (it was actually the first time they met) but he was sick and couldn't even move properly. Still beat her, though.

[@Elwillyx475]

I remember that, all it took was one punch from spidey and she was all like "OK, nope, I'm outta here"

[@Username-wj8pz]

@@Elwillyx475 yeah, and then she tried to seduce him. The audacity lol

[@glitchxedfix134]

@@Username-wj8pz kind of a n00b here but please tell me this is adult Peter we're talking about

[@Username-wj8pz]

@@glitchxedfix134 yes it's adult Peter

[@SHINXANTA]

Anyone know the name or issue of the comic?

[@wyattcampbell2077]

Spider-Man: breaths Silver Sable: *KICK*

[@alexferrana3979]

It's because he holding back too much.

[@shaf621]

Lmao maybe it's his kink, he likes getting kicked by girls aha

[@MasterTSayge]

@@alexferrana3979 Not really. Silver sable is clearly Stronger than Spider man. After she dropped kick spider man, he felt that pain. Plus they had a rematch and she STILL WON!!!

[@christianhenry4173]

Somehow the worst spiderman game makes silver sable Oped in combat but makes spiderman act like a simp trying to flirt with all his crushes that went sour this game is by far Overrated.

[@EarthsGotFineTalent]

@@MasterTSayge did you really just say silver sable is stronger than spider man? Do I need to remind you or let alone educate you on the fact that Spider-Man is LITERALLY 100 times stronger than her as he’s showed lifting up to 100+ tons? He’s also faster more durable and more skilled this isn’t even an argument he destroys her in any normal occasion.

[@aeg9065]

"Not once, not twice, but in three different occasions" Me, an intellectual: "thrice"

[@andrewbear1057]

"Three different occasions" is a far more emphatic expression.

[@Dreadjaws]

@@andrewbear1057 He was just joking. Relax.

[@Coreisus]

i was waiting for him to say thrice

[@punctuationman334]

Andrew Bear do you comprehend what a joke is?

[@gametimex3969]

I want some thrice cream now

[@therappingrooster8]

Well boys we did it, Silver Sable is cancelled

[@Bedfordshireman]

Good job, Reddit!

[@kingdomcomesuperman3669]

Kinda wish the Silver Sable and Black Cat movie was a possibility

[@fccthe3813]

OPINIONS MATTER I GUESS

[@badreedinedjellali1328]

I ya she's women she get scared but if it was a man I'll probably heat him for running a way

[@Pedro_eqw]

What happened?

[@Canadish]

Brought up some great points I hadn't thought of, especially the bit about the visual/artistic language in her outfit. She definitely felt like a half-baked leftover from one of the longer script drafts.

[@k96man]

When I first saw her I thought she looked like a Saints row 4 protagonist

[@OGStarlightKY]

@@k96man I thought that too.

[@CyborgSodaCollects]

The whole time I was wondering how she was able to best Spiderman. A guy that can dodge bullets before they're fired, but he gets his ass kicked by a chick with guns.

[@Kuzamer]

I mean... Even in the Ultimate Spider-Man Game she was able to kick Peter's ass pretty easily. Blocking and dodging a lot of his attacks.

[@Artistofprocedure]

@@Kuzamer which is stupid as hell considering he lift cars in that game she'd break her arms blocking

[@Kuzamer]

@@Artistofprocedure True. I guess because she's trained more and because Peter tends of pull his punches, she's more adept at defending herself against him.

[@Artistofprocedure]

@@jalenbrown6880 can we really honestly call him naive he was dominating venom at the end of the game that just got a powerup,took down green goblin once again,took down rhino and low diff shocker.They nerf spidey in the dumbest ways sometimes if it's not comics and even then comics are butchering him now.

[@Kuzamer]

@@jalenbrown6880 Again, I think that just comes down to her skill as a fighter. Similar to how Batman can go toe to toe with superpowered foes.

[@KuraIthys]

'This is like having John Cena lose to a member of the audience' Well, I mean, that actually sounds strangely interesting, just for the utter absurdity of it. But, yeah, I get the point. I figure it'd work in that specific example just because of how much of a hilariously bizarre non-sequitur it represents. But... It's the kind of stunt that only works once. Ever. And that means one of two things: 1. It's a throwaway one-off joke. 2. It's a very unusual way of introducing a new challenger. Neither of these work if you repeat the 'joke'. And it's also not funny outside of a context where the idiocy of it stands out in a very particular way (an audience member beating up the wrestler at a wrestling match counts, but some random nobody beating up a superhero just... Doesn't. - unless it's some kind of payback for the superhero being a total grandstanding arrogant ass in public, and it literally IS just a random person from the crowd...)

[@DerrillGuilbert]

All of this is why WWE has probably done it like 15 times.

[@Dilandau3000]

I guess you could make it some kind of running joke that this tough guy who beats other wrestlers constantly gets taken out by regular Joes... but I don't think that'd work for a character you otherwise want to be taken seriously.

[@johnnycage6676]

KuraIthys get a hobby

[@clayjack9969]

Dilandau3000 I like to imagine an amazing wrestler that goes to match’s disguised as some fat guy, or a nerdy weakling, then trash talks the other wrestlers until they call him out then he reveals who he is.

[@LizzieLeporidae]

There was an example of a wrestler getting his intro by being "A member of the audience," but he ended up getting rescued by someone else in his debut.

[@thatguy779]

The point about Black Cat is that she never outright beats Spider-Man in a real physical confrontation because A) they’re on two different tiers when it comes to potential lethality and B) she knows this and never picks fights she can’t win. Whenever the two meet and she’s the victor, it’s always a case of “I have the advantage just long enough to escape”

[@TheZetaKai]

Shamus Young died on Wednesday, June 15th, 2022, at 3am, of cardiac arrest. He is greatly missed by family, friends, colleagues, and his audience.

[@norcyconstanza1050]

She got that "I need to speak to your manager." haircut.

[@Dreadjaws]

"'This is like having John Cena lose to a member of the audience'" That reminds me of the episode of the Batman Animated Series "The Man Who Killed Batman". The story presents a very realistic scenario in which a random goon gets Batman killed by sheer luck. Of course, it didn't actually happen. Batman was merely pretending to be dead to be able to watch events from afar and caught perpetrators from the shadows, but it was a very real possibility. The thing is: being realistic doesn't necessarily make for satisfying storytelling. Like it or not, if they actually decided to kill Batman and they had it happen by a random goon accidentally doing it people would very rightly revolt. Even for stories based in real life events, you need to find a way to structure the plot in a satisfying way. This is why filmmakers are always changing things around and even making stuff up in biopics. Real life doesn't have a narrative. So you could potentially argue as a defense that even if Silver Sable was incompetent all the time she could still luck into beating Spider-Man a few times. And you'd be right; it could happen. It just wouldn't be satisfying storytelling, as this game shows.

[@DerrillGuilbert]

Not to disagree with your actual point, but you got me thinking about how it could be satisfying for a random goon to kill the bat. It'd need to start with a long Bat Day, of course. This one goon would need to be highlighted as having been nearby enough to see the Bat receive certain specific injuries. Then maybe the next day, the goon is in the crowd as Bruce and others walk the red carpet for something, and the goon recognizes that Bruce must be Batman, due to the nature of his injuries, in spite of the fact that he claims to have gotten them falling from a horse or some other kind of rich people thing. Said goon left his gat at home, so he just starts watching for an opportunity. He tells his boss he's taking some time off, and just starts shadowing Bruce, maybe carrying a camera like he's a pap? He'd have to be a pretty smart goon ... and I guess I'm elevating this guy above random mook, thus obviating my own point. But now I want someone to write this...

[@cjhedrick6418]

Funnily enough, I vaguely remember reading a story where Batman believed that's how he'd eventually die: not fighting a supervillain, but shot to death by a random criminal in an alley, just like his parents.

[@badreedinedjellali1328]

she was cool in the comic

[@Legion_Driver]

Cj Hedrick I was just about to mention that. I believe that was in a comic based on the brave and the bold Cartoon Network series.

[@bigblue207]

Cj Hedrick there was another quote from the cartoon along similar lines and I can’t remember if it was the same episode or not (I don’t think it was) but it was basically Bruce musing to Alfred about how “the war goes on” and he can’t do it forever and one day one of his enemies will win, maybe penguin maybe joker maybe two-face “or just some punk who got lucky”

[@tayojones9460]

I hated seeing sable easily beat Spidey and walk away without getting hurt once! Not even a slap!

[@MasterTSayge]

Me too. Anita sarkeesian would be proud. #mgtow

[@ManiaBucket]

Because a slap from spiderman would knock her jaw off.

[@tzuzu5240]

Because spider-man can literally ends her life by simply punching her once.. As much as I hate it too, I do understand why they did it

[@bakedbeans5494]

@@tzuzu5240 It's called plot armour. You literally just made an illogical statement saying that Spider-Man should be nerfed against Silver Sable because he can kill her so why even have the fight?

[@tzuzu5240]

@@bakedbeans5494 bruh that's not what I said? I said that Spider-Man can one shot her if we go by real fact but they decided to give him a fight with her to make it more entertaining for the game because we all know how strong spidey is but for the game that we suppose to play? It make sense.. Like it's stupid but it's understandable.. And also I never said anything that Spider-Man should get nerfed lol

[@DoctorFail]

"Spider sense? Whats that?" -spiderman whenever silver sable is on screen.

[@olegtz]

Or black cat

[@aetherkid]

@@olegtz I think Black Cat is kind of his weakness in a way. He doesnt feel threatened by her since he is attracted to her.

[@puffpuffpassmako]

What ticked me off is Sable was shown to be op for no reason at all. In comics its explained much better. So allow me to explain: Silver Sable is said in comics to have superior fighting skill compared to Spiderman. The problem is Spider man holds back in every fight because his strength at full force would kill a non powered human, which sable is. Peter has lost almost every fight with sable due to him holding back mixed with her better fighting skill. HOWEVER there was one comic I read where Sable threatened Spiderman's family, and sable was winning. Spiderman got so angry, he full force punched her. When she blocked the punch, both her arms shattered and she was scared beyond measure. She was forced to give up because Spider man broke both her arms and was about to lose...badly. She never messed with Spiderman since and worked together with him from then on.

[@Muggerlol]

W reference

[@marinesinspace6253]

I've never seen that one, but during the run of the "Superior Spider-Man" when doc ock is in control of Spidey's body, he fights Scorpion, you know, the dude in the cybernetic suit that is actually stronger and faster than Spidey, Otto punches Scorpion without holding back and takes his jaw OFF. Sable has never had any business fighting Spidey toe to toe.

[@username-ew1de]

That's what happens when you disregard power scaling.

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

I would call that one good moment in a sea of bad power scaling the gap between spidey and a baseline human is bigger than that if a heavy weight boxer and a four year old. Basic stats spideys top running speed is around 200mph his current strength is between 15 and 25 tons which gets stronger when he's emotionally motivated this is recognized in marvel canon. Peter himself has calculated his reflex and reaction speed without spider sense to be 40 times that of a baseline human play a clip of someone punching then slow the speed by 40 times and that is how slow a punch to spidey is. I'm sick of this appeal to martial arts fallacy no matter how fancy your kick is if it's moving in slow motion to your opponent you will lose period. It's why spidey casually dodged black panthers strikes and drove him crazy, disarmed captain America, defeated black widow casually and beat iron fist. there is even a panel where spidey tells daredevil from on top a roof of a small building he's gonna jump down their and punch him in the face. We then see a bluff of action lines of spidey jumping down then striking Daredevil before he can react and he started from a good 50 feet away. The only reason he loses to silver sable I'm convinced is because she's a hot girl character who is a semi regular opponent vs black widow who was a guest star so writers want her to seem like she'd be competent against spidey as a reacurring character and we can't have spidey constantly break her arms like toothpicks parents would complain about violence against women.

[@Peter7DA]

What comic did Spider-Man break Silver Sables arms in? I’d love to read it

[@saltyswede7875]

A good example of an incompetent character going through a character arc is Revolver Ocelot from Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater. He constantly loses to Snake, and often fucks up, even when he has the upper hand. But he is still a fun character, with a cool looking outfit that goes through an interesting character arc, and changes through each encounter with Snake.

[@EnvyOmicron]

"You're pretty good."

[@LikeADamnFIDDLE]

Also he's a really tragic dude. You can't help but feel bad for him.

[@Gatorade69]

He was still young and stupid. Also he was also the mole, ADAM who Snake was originally supposed to meet. So technically he was on Snakes side... I guess.

[@samz8691]

Plus he technically gets better and better with dealing with Snake abit as the game goes on. Completely destroyed at the start, boss fight in the middle, Nearly deals with Snake (if he wasn't a spy and the waterfall) near the end and in the actual ending they have a prolonged hand-to-hand fight. (instead of him getting completely destroyed like at the start.)

[@Movie_Games]

Maybe Spidey feels sorry for her so he doesn't put up much of a fight.

[@thegackman576]

Movie Games it’s actually stated that spider man holds back against normal people

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

That's my head-cannon. Their 'fights' are never serious so he lets her win.

[@aMotionless]

Granted the story with her was vanilla, the whole time hes trying to help her, discovering why shes there, with everything happening in her home country. He says multiple time that he doesnt want to fight her, just help her, at no point did he want to fight her. If he did he would have.

[@MasterTSayge]

Not really. Silver sable is clearly Stronger than Spider man. After she dropped kick spider man, he felt that pain. Plus they had a rematch and she STILL WON!!!

[@hydrocritical2268]

@@MasterTSayge Nope he was holding back, he even holds back against Kingpin and rhino.

[@Ingel_Riday6690]

[quote]While he’s forcing open the security doors, Silver Sable arrives. She opens by attempting to shoot Spider-Man in the back. That makes her both evil and a coward. But she misses, which also makes her incompetent. She’s attacking him, even though they’re obviously on the same side and he’s trying to save her boss. That makes her stupid. Then she stops shooting once she gets close, which is, once again, incompetent. Then she throws a little tantrum at Spider-Man for always attacking her men, even though they always try to kill him on sight, presumably under her orders. She’s literally outraged that Spider-Man defends his life with non-lethal force. Then she demands to know why she shouldn’t just shoot him right now.[/quote] This. 100% this. I think Insomniac did a masterful job with Spiderman 2018, but their supporting cast and palate cleanser non-Spider-Man missions did not thrill me. In no particular order: A. This game's Mary Jane comes across as a 2nd rate Lois Lane rip-off. I guess being a beautiful, fiscally responsible, hyper-competent model / fashion designer / businesswoman that provides the emotional rock for Spider-Man wasn't feminist enough? So instead this version is a cold, judgmental, plain-looking neophyte journalist willing to engage in duplicity and criminal mischief for her much-coveted scoop. *sigh* Oh, and the game repeatedly, and unintentionally, refutes her key issue with Spider-Man; she expresses anger with Spider-Man because he treats her like she's made of glass and can't handle herself... and every solo Mary Jane mission involves instant fail-state stealth sequences during which getting spotted once means she drops to her knees, cries in terror, and gets shot in the head. In both the Subway sequence and her final rooftop stealth mission, she only lives because Spider-Man comes in to save her. Based on the game's own structure and Mary Jane gameplay, she IS made of glass and he was RIGHT to be afraid for her. Then she breaks up with him over the phone and travels to Dr. Doom's fictional country for a scoop, so eh. Bye. B. Miles Morales suffers from being both a nerdy fanboy and having only instant fail-state stealth missions. I wasn't much of a fan of this version in the first place and then Sony's animated Spider-Man multiverse movie came out. Ouch. Miles can be a great character if done right, but Insomniac's version needs major character development. C. Silver Sable, as you've already mentioned. Honestly, I grew to find her exceedingly dull. The first time she did her superhero drop from a helicopter and landed too hard on her knees, guns drawn, barking and growling, I thought "hm, this is new. What an odd interpretation of her character." Spider-Man showing some deference to her since she was hired by the government to help with the crisis made a little sense (he works with the cops, after all), and then she... beat the crap out of him and threatened his life. Was this meant to be endearing? Then, as you indicated, it became habitual for her. Spider-Man overtly fights to protect civilians and help accomplish her goals, big story beat happens, she pops up to bully & brutalize Spider-Man (a meta-human who can apparently fight twenty supernaturally empowered Demon goons at the same time but can't handle a 140 Lb. mortal woman in a trench-coat with heel-boots and two pistols), and we rinse & repeat for twenty hours. I actually grew to despise her character, and I like her in the comics. There is a difference between being a strong, independent woman and being a full-on psycho nut-job... and I'm not sure her writers got that memo. By comparison, Black Cat was superb. Almost-weaponized feminine charm with hints of sincerity, strong & independent but still sane & rational. Great power-set. Memorable costume. Clearly likes Spider-Man and respects him, though she wishes he was a bit less of a boy-scout; if he was willing to bend the rules more, she would let him in on plans instead of manipulating him, which she doesn't really like to do. Complex and likely not an instant fail-state character if she had her own missions. Too bad Mary Jane and Silver Sable didn't take notes.

[@Mekasoundwave]

It is really disappointing how the writing of the game bungles a lot of Spidey's supporting cast, when they absolutely nail most of his rogue's gallery. Especially Black Cat, who was basically perfect. If they really wanted the audience to get invested in Pete and MJ's relationship, they should really stop shooting themselves in the foot by having a better written, more entertaining and generally more likeable love interest for Spider-Man already in the story.

[@karystmania5509]

Mekasoundwave exactly! I never even liked mj that much in the first place. Gwen would be my first choice. Maybe have her be Spider Gwen so that she can help out. Im not sure how they could explain it but honestly i would rather that version of gwen than any version of MJ

[@alpyki2588]

I must admit, they missed a great opportunity with "Morgan Michaels" to do some cool Halloween DLC, or they could be saving that for the next game. Either way, wanted more side villains. At least put Jack o' Lantern or The Swarm or a Hobgoblin in there. Don't leave me with just Screwball, ugg.

[@Username-wj8pz]

@@karystmania5509 wow really? Gwen was pretty bland in the comics though

[@karystmania5509]

robloz in the comics sure but you can say the same for Miles and look at what ITSV did with him. Ill take Gwen over MJ anyday

[@AofCastle]

"How about a team-up between Black Cat and Silver Sable?" This is a thing I didn't know I wanted but now I want it.

[@SidheKnight]

I think there were rumors of a Sony Black Cat & Silver Saber team-up movie at some point, even before the deal with Marvel.

[@dutchvanderlinde2002]

@@SidheKnight yeah it was supposed to be two solo movies but then it became a team called Silver & Black but it's anyone's guess if it'll ever be made

[@dylannance4772]

If a femenist agenda isn't pushed and cringe is insued then that would be AWESOME. If they stick to a proper rendition of comics then they will be MOST SUCCESSFUL

[@simen30]

SidheKnight they tore it into 2 seperate films because black cat and silver sable is strong enough to carry a movie on their own, their words not mine, however i’d really love to see a black cat in the movies, a small part or big, Her apperance should have been in one of the movies

[@PenheartKings]

Oh that sounds great, so many sexual opportunities to exploit and enjoy listening to hehehe.

[@EnvyOmicron]

It's funny that you brought up Batman's batarangs, because I actually do remember Silver Sable using shurikens in addition to regular guns a few times in the comics.

[@linuxzero7283]

Completely understand the sentiment. I was pissed at her always hitting me during the cutscenes and waited patiently for some type of payback so imagine my disappointment when it never happened.

[@arson135]

They made Silver Sable look like a wine aunt Karen that wants to talk to your manager.

[@Gallowaves]

She’s the epitome of the “strong female character” can’t look overly cool or sexy because fashion over function is sexist. Can’t be truly beaten in a fight because hurting women is sexist. Never experiences negative consequences for her actions because there’s always a man that can take the blame. No time put into actually fleshing out the character because she doesn’t need a reason to be awesome, she just is and you’re sexist if you think otherwise.

[@blxckjxck47]

curtis galloway Lazy as hell

[@Totallygeekdom]

@@blxckjxck47 um sir that's sexist.

[@kevinescobar370]

curtis galloway Spider-Man literally beats her in her dlc

[@blxckjxck47]

Kevin Escobar Which one ? I only played the black cat dlc

[@kevinescobar370]

BlackjAck 47 the silver lining dlc

[@DeadlyAlienInvader]

2:34 doesn’t Black Widow have a bit of the super soldier serum in her? And also, even though the Kingpin doesn’t really have superpowers, he has an insane muscle mass that no normal human being can have since all that mass that the Kingpin has isn’t fat-it’s muscle.

[@SentinelHirsc]

600lbs of pure muscle to be exact, or over double the weight of Schwarzenegger at his peak

[@punctuationman334]

Sentinel Hirsc the guy has to have some mutation or gene that causes him to be that incredibly large and powerful.

[@SentinelHirsc]

@@punctuationman334 They never said he did. My man just got called fat one too many times as a kid, and after the first time he got sent to jail he snapped and became the living embodiment of G A I N S

[@punctuationman334]

Sentinel Hirsc an inspiration for all men.

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

Also MOST of the time, Fisk isn't really a physical combatant and when he is he has men working for him to help out. He's more of a puppet master villain.

[@TheEndKing]

Silver Sable Sucks, or SSS. I agree with your assertion that SSS, Sheamus. Or, I agree with your assertion that SSSS.

[@andrewbear1057]

SSSSSSSS (Since Shamus says Silver Sable sucks, she sucks.)

[@corronchilejano]

@@andrewbear1057 Shamus Says Silver Sable, Spiderman Showstopper, Sucks, so she sucks spider sacks

[@RetardedGoat16]

The comics, the game, or the cartoon?

[@DragonRiderCVL]

Meat YES!

[@Ticketman99]

How dare you?!?! Insulting Devil May Cry like that?!

[@BobfishAlmighty]

Such a shame, too. I quite like Sable. She was done extremely well in Ultimate Spider-man, at least

[@jasdanvm3845]

The animated series?

[@TioRata]

@@jasdanvm3845 I think he refers to the 2005 videogame

[@BobfishAlmighty]

@@TioRata aye, the game. She's was fuggin' awesome in the 90s cartoon. Mira Furlan!

[@combatlightning9481]

Wait you mean the comics or the game?

[@CP-uw4ts]

Know why, because Brian Michael bendis and Brian reed were the head writers, BMB was the game director, and Brian reed was the lead designer. And both were in their primes when it came to writing comics at Marvel then too. It wasn't until bendis got involved in the main 616 continuity his writing went to shit. And Brian reed well wrote halo 5, nuff said. But he did a GREAT job with Carol danvers right up until Kelly sue deconnick created the version we know now.

[@GrainMuncher]

I actually didn’t mind when I played the game, but now that I think of it, it is really about strong female characters being too invincible in recent media, because there’s always that strong trained woman in a superhero movie that beats everyone, but it doesn’t make sense, because in the first time you see her, she misses 40+ shots 10 feet away from Spider-Man while he is idle, but when she fights him, he gets fucking DISCOMBOBULATED

[@CasualShinji]

Silver Sable could've been replaced by any random elite, helmet-wearing mercenary in the cutscenes and it wouldn't have impacted the story in the slightest. That's why she's such a trash character.

[@1thevm1]

Her appearance was changed so that she'd look exactly like the writer, so I believe it's literally her self-insert at this point, which explains a lot.

[@DoctorFail]

Self inserts are cancer

[@CaptainBones222]

Who's her writer?

[@thegackman576]

Hot

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

Source? Who's the writer so I can see for myself

[@EarthsGotFineTalent]

@@CaptainBones222 Kelsey beachum

[@hammskie05]

Who would win? Radioactive walking tank that can avoid nearly any damage and skyscrapers? Or One angery wahman

[@arcburn6340]

So, they let a Karen writer shoehorn herself into the story. Not understanding the characters or how a hero works is typical Karen.

[@XanderVJ]

One thing about her design: the lack of a lush mane of hair may be due to limitations in the graphics engine. I don't know if you noticed it, but apparently the engine is very poor at handling long hair in general. Short hair looks fine, but as soon as it is just a few inches long, it always looks stiff, rigid and flat. Heck, Mary Jane and Black Cat's hair is over shoulder-length, so they have to have ponytails in order to hide this limitation, but even then it looks as if they had the strongest hair spray on the market. Now, I don't want to be too rough on this, since hair is one of the most difficult things to portray in 3D graphics in general, specially if you go to a somewhat realistic aesthetic. But I'd like Insomniac to try to improve this in the sequel. As for the main point of the video... Honestly, I found SS kind of inoffensive. Yeah, she doesn't add much to the story, but I don't think she hurts it too much either.

[@Peasham]

They could always manually animate the long hair, if they really wanted to.

[@AofCastle]

@@Peasham And for the 5 cutscenes she needlesly appears in, it may not even be too much of a trouble

[@Dev-nr4dw]

@@Peasham nowadays most western devs are too lazy to animate anything manually even if they have huge budgets. Just look at Starfire's hair from Injustice 2. Her hair is major part of her design but the lazy fucks at NRS didn't even bother because they know due to dc's popularity eveyone will still buy their garbage. Japanese fighting games like guilty gear, sf5 and mvc manually animate clothes and hair and even The Witcher 3 devs put in a lot of detail to make it more immersive.

[@captaincarrot8928]

​@@Dev-nr4dw I remember being really impressed with Alice's long hair when Alice: Madness Returns came out almost a decade ago. Shame hardly any modern game seems to even bother trying to match it, let alone improve it. Modern devs should focus less on modeling skin pores on characters faces and other micro details and focus more on hair tech.

[@the_scientist7772]

@Dev While i do agree that it's certainly an insult to Starfire. You have to remember that she's a small DLC character added into the game. So they weren't playing on animating her hair like they would for others in the campaign.

[@fyrentenimar]

Guess she and her goons are here for the same reason Cerberus was all over the place in ME3: for the variety in enemies. Good example from Black Books, too, good job.

[@gargamellenoir8460]

That Osborne would hire a bunch of fascist goons to bring "safety" to New York at the drop of a hat makes sense. That we don't know if she's into the whole fascist thing or doesn't give a frak is a problem.

[@TheHeroBleeder]

But tbh Cerberus being all over the place has a reason though. They're trying to take "control" of everything and everyone but Shepard fucked the Illusive Man over with the collector base(if you destroyed the base)

[@DerrillGuilbert]

@@TheHeroBleeder There's a reason Cerberus would WANT to be everywhere, but as Shamus stated more eloquently than I will, there's just no possible way they COULD be.

[@1r0zz]

@@TheHeroBleeder And if you didn't it's the same game with chain-smoker just saying "btw, thanks for the base brah"... And still releasing emo-ninja boy at you.

[@MK-lk7nc]

In this game, Silver Sable looks like her super power is asking to speak with your manager.

[@Mevarek]

IIRC, the Ultimate Spider-Man game from the 2000s had Silver Sable as an ancillary antagonist and she was pretty fearsome. She was a merc hunting down venom and you had to fight her as a boss as Spidey, but you didn't have web-shooters. She was way better in that game.

[@MsMaydayGoingDown]

I'm a massive Spider-Man fan and my first introduction to Silver Sable was at the same time I got into the Spider-Man comics as a kid surprisingly; the first comics I owned was a trade collecting various Spider-Man stories from magazines, and a story involving Silver Sable was one of them. This story does almost everything that is described in this video the right way, the opposite of what the video game did. She had her classic shiny, long-haired look, so that was an automatic win, but more than that at the very start of the issue she was established from the get-go as super competent by smartly planning how to get around every single security measure in Fisk Tower, including both stealthily taking down armed guards and disabling alarms. While her background and motive is similar in that she is a mercenary for hire, and all she's doing is trying to steal a databank from Fisk for her employer, but she reveals she actually will donate all the money she makes to the small European she comes from, Symkaria, which had it's main city blown up a year prior (not her motive in the main comics, this is an out-of-continuity story), making her instantly more compelling and morally grey. Now, she does take down Spidey in this story who follows her into the tower, but she doesn't just kick his ass but rather outsmarts him by distracting him then catching him off guard with UNIQUE WEAPONS called chias, which are like diamond-shaped throwing stars, then putting him to sleep with sleeping gas while he dodges them. This whole scenario is done makes us understand why she can take him down because she has clever tactics and combined with clever weapon combinations. Her dialogue bounces off Spidey's in this fight well too because her personality isn't stupid or cowardish or a crybaby but she is stoic, gets annoyed easy and wants to focus on the job at hand, making her a fun character to watch because she paints a juxtaposition to the fun loving hero. And finally, the story actually does the character arc from the game but actually does it RIGHT; at the start of the story she discusses with her employer that she's not interested in taking down Fisk's criminal empire like he is, she just wants the money and to leave; then later she gets taken down in a fight with Fisk's bodyguard Electro, who connects her accent with her country and reveals he was the one who blew up it's main city for Fisk after a business deal with their government didn't go his way; finally when Spider-Man is about to be crushed by Kingpin she debates between running off with the databank or saving Spidey, and decides to help take down Fisk and Electro, sending them both to jail. Spidey asks why she helped in the aftermath and she says that what Electro revealed made her acknowledge that she has a responsibility to help properly take down those who hurt others, otherwise another incident like what happened in Symkaria will happen again. There you go: Sable with interesting skills and weapons, interesting motivations, a personality that compares against Spidey's in a fun way, actual competence in how she approaches her goal, and she helps save Spidey's life when she could have just let him die in the final fight because of a believable change of heart. If the game developers had time to get her as right as this story, that would have made really want to see her in a movie, but alas, it didn't work out that way. What a shame.

[@timberm4n379]

goddamnit even after 3 years i appreciate your effort yto share this story i see a a lot of people( especially wommen-feminists ) saying that "you are mad cause WOMEN beat his ass" and etc damn just give us an explanation how someone beat spider man and we will be satisfied and even more we will start respecting that hero but NO Silver sable beat spidey's ass cause she is BADASS

[@wswordsmen]

It isn't like having an A-tier wrestler lose to a member of the audience. That is interesting, it would be like a random civilian beating Spider-Man for no reason. Sable is clearly better than an average civilian, she has and brandishes guns, so it is like having the jobber beat the champ several times while losing to everyone else.

[@adeebap]

Just finished Spider-Man. I thought she was kinda sexy, that’s it - this was a very thorough break down of all her flaws. Well done.

[@JB_inks]

"pointless fanwank" has got to be the best expression I've heard all year

[@DoctorInk20]

I think Yahtzee Croshaw coined that.

[@eusouocarameuirmao]

@@DoctorInk20 pretty sure the term fanwank is far older than Yahtzee

[@DoctorInk20]

@@eusouocarameuirmao You're probably right, thinking about. XD I just heard it first from him.

[@facelessgreen8997]

She wants to speak to the manager mate, that's this haircut. Silver Sable more like Silver Karen

[@Percival917]

I have some ideas for how she could be a better character: >her background is that she was born a one-percenter, explaining why all these troops and highly advanced gadgets belong to HER rather than the NYPD. >Give her and her troops stun guns so that she can accomplish something without killing people, and also not come across as an Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship academy graduate. This also establishes a commonality between her and Spider-Man- both are lawkeepers and non-killers. And also, Sable should be able to use grappling hooks and nets and shit to perform all the same gameplay functions as Spidey, including preventing people from falling to death if she knocks them off buildings. >Give her a better sense of style, of course- her costume should show that she is an overconfident, badass showoff who is more than capable of putting her money where her mouth is most of the time. Her outfit should even emphasize her hotness and musculature while also looking like it can believably be bulletproof, flexible, and comfortable. Oh, and give her either a wavy princess hairdo, twintails, or a pixie cut.- anything but the Karen bob. Come to think of it, since some of my hairstyle suggestions indicate youth, I'll take that one step further- as capable as this version is, she's also a spoiled brat as young as Spidey if not younger, who bought military training, advanced nonlethal tech, and her own army with Daddy's credit card, and her main weakness as a character is that she's out-of-touch, with no idea what the lives of civilians are like, thus she develops into someone whose efforts help civilians rather than making their lives into a police state hell. >While Spider-Man's target is Doc Ock, Sable's target should be someone like Carnage or The Punisher- a foil to both Spidey and Sable, who kills people under their own sense of justice. Screw your "yOu GoTtA aGrEe WiTh ThE vIlLaIn" bullcrap, it's far more important for a villain to be a foil to the hero than anything else. A motive that is understandable but NOT QUITE AGREEABLE can elevate that villain as well. But the hero, the core of the story, should always be just as compelling as the villain, if not more so. Come to think of it, Punisher would make more sense as Sable's villain because he could feasibly raise an army, thus providing a slight justification for why Sable's troops are making life hell for ordinary civilians. Thus arises the reason why Spidey and Sable butt heads so frequently- Spidey is all about the citizens, where Sable is all about the job before developing into a paragon. >Thus, now that we have a halfway decent rival for Spider-Man, we need to make her a boss fight that doesn't suck, just so the player can feel some semblance of payoff from having Sable kick Spidey's ass multiple times without the player having a chance to fight back. After beating Sable, the two should officially team up, and possibly, the two should adopt the gameplay capability to direct Sable's troops. And yes, I'm saying this version of Sable should be playable, in a bonus campaign like Vergil from Devil May Cry 3, if not just some optional extra missions that go over the important beats of Silver Sable's mission to capture The Punisher. Edit: one more thing: as for her mercenary aspect, she should undercut the prices of other mercenary characters, earning just enough to turn it into profit on the stock market, which then becomes her tech and her employees' numerous, borderline luxurious benefits. For voice acting, my inner Nintendo/Fire Emblem geek thinks having Laura "Lucina" Bailey voice the opposition to Yuri "Marth" Lowenthal's spidey would be amusing.

[@macoy3943]

Percival917 She could be related to Silverman like in Spectacular Spider-Man

[@Percival917]

@DJHart Oh? How so?

[@nocktukdaze8256]

@DJHart Fleshing out a character is worse than keeping her one-note for pretty much no good reason....

[@Percival917]

@@nocktukdaze8256 I do not follow your logic.

[@nocktukdaze8256]

@@Percival917i was pointing out the insanity in DJHart's logic: thinking that fleshing out a non-character to become a more rounded and fleshed out character is ludicrous

[@furyberserk]

When your character is a brick wall that excels as such in a single instance everytime you have failed at why comics usually has people breaking through such walls.

[@bisheshshakya9417]

What about silver lining DLC? In that silver sable actually had goal and also was sympathetic character although they could not get rid of her One note personality that much... Edit: she was also fun to watch fight along side with Spider-Man as a team!

[@kingdomcomesuperman3669]

Yeah the DLC made her a lot better

[@tremor230]

I see that as a problem though, I see it as a flaw if a character needs 1 "add-on" to gain depth or nuances...She should have been like that since the beginning and THEN you have the DLC as a way to say: "See? They can even work together!" My opinion though, I am fully open to admit I am wrong

[@OrgaG1742]

tremor230 one thing to remember though; Silver Sable is a minor character in the story with very few appearances, so it makes sense for her to be fleshed out a bit more in a side story.

[@tremor230]

@@OrgaG1742 fair enough 🙂

[@jessea4438]

@@tremor230 The thing is, take someone like Black Cat. She was alot more interesting in the vanilla game than Sable despite the fact that she never physically appears in the game. The intrigue came from what Peter says about her and their vague history, the fact that you don't know what her goal is until the end of her side quest, and the fact that she managed to outsmart him in the end while leaving a little souvenir for him despite everything. I guess because she doesn't physically appear in the game that she has no need to go though a character arc, but she was still more intriguing than Sable, and that's an issue. If a character who doesn't even show up physically in the game is more intriguing a character that does, then that's just sad.

[@noobartist6009]

I'm not sure why this has become such a persistent aspect of superhero-esque writing for female characters. It starts with a simple premise "Writer has a character they really like and want the audience to like as well. Instead of actually making them likeable they show off how cool they are by having them beat up the protagonist we've been following for the several years in an extremely scripted outcome" At the best of times its a really rudimentary understanding of how to get us to like a character and at its worse its the writers subjecting us to their own personal femdom kinks. Nadine in Uncharted 4 is still a more obnoxious example of this but Silver Sable is up there

[@TheDisgruntledImperial]

Nadine literally made me stop playing and just watch a let's play.

[@deadjuice1880]

"Her outfit looks like Switch's from the Matrix..." Lmao holy cow you nailed it! That always bugged me the most. Switch's outfit worked in that movie for many reasons. In this game, the design looks so lazy, everything about her screams cheap anime version of Silver Sable.

[@The5MinuteGamer]

You’re also forgetting that Spider-Man is usually almost always holding back against his opponents because he definitely does have the strength to one shot every human being and even a good number of his rogues gallery

[@aMotionless]

Not only that, but he wants to help her the entire time, because they worked together before. So why would he beat her up?

[@stevenwoods5787]

​@@aMotionless this game had no connection to any story. spider man never met sable before, it was so clear in the game that a dead man from the 1800s couldve seen that. and they werent "on the same side" hence why you fight both the demons and sables guys

[@likehell5803]

silver sable's hair being long is a hindrance in a tactical sense, so it was logical for them to make it shorter. Everything else i agree with

[@dudeguy8686]

You never fought a gal with needles in her weave?

[@poolgoldworldwild2163]

And her heel boots aren't also a hindrance? She doesn't even need to have long hair, I just don't want her to look like a soccer mom

[@chabweezy9905]

spiderman's skin-tight suit that provides no protection can also be a hindrance but I guess only males can wear the body-hugging clothes now?

[@Hairylionproductions]

I made a short film about Silver Sable m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZvRXn13dqylmbM&pp=2AEBkAIB

[@Manic06]

I hate her design too they gave her a karen cut and trash ass clothing they should of made her more like her comic book part

[@CassieRage3339]

When you make a character untouchable, you've made a failed character. Making untouchable characters works in one situation: when they have a serious illness/deformation and are manipulating machinery or something from the comfort of a mental uplink in a lab. Then, it works perfectly. But even they face humility in the end. No good character fails to face humility in the end, in some way, shape or form. No human has ever been perfectly invincible, the only person who can relate to that is a rich person who has everything to where they never have even had to leave their parents' luxury mansion.

[@RandomPerson-gt1jt]

I've only ever known silver sable from the wii game "spiderman: friend or foe" where I had to play as her for the first few levels before I quickly switched to black cat the moment I unlocked her. And even I was disappointed by how she was portrayed here.

[@jjbb84x]

Battle Karen wasn't that bad. She just needed to find a manager. Until she found completed her mission, she had that monstrous adrenaline on her side.

[@themadtitan7603]

While I don't think she's terrible, I do agree that she's not well-developed. I'm glad they improved her character in Silver Lining and now I want to see more of her.

[@furyberserk]

But that is what made her terrible. Imagine adding a returning character who is there to take up space.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

You literally described why she's terrible. She's a poorly adapted waste of a character and needed DLC just to be three dimensional.

[@themadtitan7603]

@@Seoul_Soldier Not really, remember Thor ? I know we're crossing over to movies but since we're only talking about a character/story and not gameplay it still applies. Thor was kind of a character not many people cared about about throughout most of his time in the MCU, but then Ragnarok/Infinity War came out and suddenly his fanbase grew considerably; just because it wasn't a love at first sight moment (or in this case fan at first sight moment) doesn't mean it doesn't count.

[@jakitron890]

I played the DLC a while ago, but I don't remember feeling as though it redeemed her in any way

[@themadtitan7603]

@@jakitron890 That's okay if that was your opinion but to me it added a bunch to a hollow and pointless character in the main game.

[@nosfonader8792]

Silver Sable could easily be the whole “live long enough to become the villain” trope. Sable could think her organization is the only way to truly enforce order in New York but she’s clearly going to the dark side. Spidey could be Jimmy Cricket in trying to save her from herself. Afterwards you have Sable and Spider-Man team up to another stop her organization decent into villainy and take out the Sinister Six. There I just solved the Silver Sable problem.

[@101retspoons]

cool insights as always, I like the way you use well thought-out arguments to make your points, it always makes so much sense

[@linusmethtips1006]

It should have been like arkham knight You beat all prison camps and you beat the shit out of her Without a tank of course

[@ns6438]

3:10 Oh my God, that's the best description of professional wrestling I've ever heard.

[@FhargaZ]

Spiderman can dodge bullets, but can't dodge her crappy kicks 🤨

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

They probably wanted people calling it "Sony's Spider-Man," which many did.

[@bluehero-96]

Really? I just called it shit.

[@the_scientist7772]

@bluehero96 *Salty Xbox fan-boy spotted.*

[@bluehero-96]

@@the_scientist7772 Pfft! That's a mark against Sony, not the game itself. For that I'd point to... 1. The shoddy presentation of characters like MJ, Silver Sable (the topic of this video), and Doctor Octopus, who's fall takes forever, especially when he's supposed to be one of Spidey's most notorious villains at this point. What makes it all the more unsatisfactory is how they place him in the role Curt Connors has as Peter's greatest scientific inspiration and ally. 2. The lack of a black suit. They say it's not in the continuity of the game yet, but we have several alternate universe spider-man costumes plus two 2099 suits to make the argument null and void 3. The lackluster and unimpressive general combat. 4. No one wanted to play as MJ (especially this MJ) or Miles (as not-spider-man) because they are not supers or have worthwhile gameplay.

[@the_scientist7772]

@bluehero96 1. MJ was decent as long as you know that they broke up. And sure..Sable sucks, but that doesn't make this game shit. And i was fine with Doctor Octopus taking awhile, so i can have a huge game to play(Especially, if you already seen his arc a million times already). Wasn't he already like that since 2004? 2. Insomniac already said an interview that,"We don't want Venom to be just a skin. And we're playing to give him a huge roll(referring to the teased-sequel)." 3. You can be creative in the combat if you want. And you should probably stop playing it on easy mode. 4. Neither did anyone wanna play Clank over Ratchet, but Sony lets Insomniac do whatever they want. I also, didn't mind since i've played stealth game s before.

[@bluehero-96]

@@the_scientist7772 None of those things are really valid excuses. 1. Simply knowing that MJ and Peter were exs does not excuse MJ's shitty and out of character behavior. 2. Silver Sable does bring the game down as evident in this video. Her presence and interactions are illogical in the story's superpowered setting. 3. My point was that Octavius's origin should have been skipped, not just because we've seen it a dozen times before, but because Peter has been Spider-man for so long already at the start. 4. The black suit isn't just a "venom skin". Peter's idea of a black suit has never been limited to the symbiote. Not to mention the several occasions that Peter has worn more desirable non-symbiote made versions of the black suit. And so one of Spider-man's most iconic features is omitted from the game for the sake of a "possible" unrelated sequel. 5. Difficulty has nothing to do with the gameplay's issues. Most of the time the moves are bland or generic. No fineness, no ingenuity, no display of the unique power that makes Peter Spider-man.

[@Mikeoneus]

I just finished replaying Uncharted 4 and I couldn't help thinking of this video every time Nadine decided to steal screen time. It's quite remarkable just how little she and her army of mercenaries add to the story, with no development to speak of and nothing of interest to say or do aside from beating up Nathan Drake and then later on both him and his brother at the same time. She's positioned as one of the antagonists and yet in the end she gets to walk away with her head held high because she's apparently just that untouchable. The bit that really had my eyebrows raising was when she self-righteously said that she wouldn't let the Drake brothers go because of what they'd done or everything that had happened or whatever it was, as if literally a single person either inside or outside the Uncharted universe ever gave a fuck, even for a second, about her or any of her nameless goons. I have too much respect for the writers at Naughty Dog to think that even they thought Nadine was a good character. Just like Sable, it's not simply that her being able to go toe-to-toe with the protagonist is unbelievable, it's that she's so completely unsympathetic and straight-up uninteresting that she doesn't even deserve to get into a fight with him in the first place. I know she's also in Lost Legacy, which I haven't played yet, and I'm hoping there'll be a scene where Chloe knocks her teeth out. It's unfortunate that we'll never know what Shamus would have thought about Spider-Man's sequel.

[@shawklan27]

Well said

[@mr.x6313]

When I finally got to fight her in the 3rd chapter of the DLC, I was thinking: "Oh, yeah, payback time, b**ch!" Three game overs later, I was fuming. I was robbed of the catharsis that I would have gotten from beating her smarmy, arrogant ass. The reaction time that a human being would require to be able to shoot Spider-Man's gadgets out of the air at the precise moment that they've been activated would require nothing short of a Spider-Sense. Plus, she deals ridiculous damage and you can't even get in a decent combo to heal the colossal damage she's dealing. I've never been so furious in a game...except when dealing with Screwball. Who is also in this game. Wow, this game has some insufferable female characters.

[@TheDisgruntledImperial]

I played this right before my first time playing Uncharted 4. Nadine was the same way for me, and by that point I stopped playing the game. I'm tired of silicone valley and Hollywood emasculating men thinking it'll elevate women. All it does is stir the pot.

[@sk98ification]

Dude your videos are fantastic! Keep making them. I feel like your channel is about to blow up any second, your analysis for every video is so insightful

[@Lucifronz]

When playing I don't generally think too much about this stuff, just taking my time to enjoy it all, but I could definitely tell she was a waste of time in the game. She is easily the weakest part of the whole title because all she ever does is show up like some sort of Mary Sue (more like an Anti-Sue, really) self-insert fanfic character, beats on Spider-Man effortlessly and for no reason, all the while the game implies she has deeper motivations and reasons for letting everything happen *without ever actually giving an context or clues on this.* You can't make your character out to be deep and then do nothing about it, otherwise you just want that character gone. A mystery is fun because you have a chance to unravel it, not because you don't know shit about it. If Sherlock Holmes didn't explain anything in his books at the end, no one would ever fucking read them. You don't need to know _everything_ about the mystery, but at least try to fill in a few holes. People don't need to know everything, that would be boring, but knowing _nothing_ is even worse. Especially when she's so hypocritically inconsistent in both her actions and her words _and_ the way the developers/writers portray her. I get that she's not allowed to shoot people in this superhero game, only villains can do that (she's no fucking hero, though), but at least make it seem like she has a reason for not shooting Spider-Man if she always gets the jump on him despite having slower reaction times than him.

[@thecontroller9779]

I’m hoping they’ve gotten over their Silver Sable Fetish for the sequel

[@RNGeeGee]

Silver Sable? How about Miles Morales? Take his character out of the game, it changes nothing. He was just there for fan-service and to be a bridge for a possible sequel.

[@kainvampir5430]

Miles sucks

[@milowolfface9392]

Wait till the third game when you play as Miles fighting Superior Spiderman. Hopefully boss fights don't suck by that point though.

[@bigbluered2654]

I think removing him would actually harm the game. His presence as a Spider-Man removed Peter's plot armor in his fight against Octavius. Peter could have died there and we'd still have a Spider-Man sequel because of Miles' existence. I wouldn't do it, but it's notable because it elevated tension to an unexpected degree - Peter could reasonably die against Doc Ock and there would still be a sequel.

[@MysteriousTomJenkins]

Honestly those moments of Silver Sable beating Spider-Man get more annoying in hindsight when I think of other instances of Spider-Man losing when he really shouldn't or another bullshit instance of Sable beating someone she really shouldn't. I saw a video of a recent Marvel comic that had Silver Sable coming in conflict with a Marvel character called Blue Marvel. Blue Marvel is essentially a Superman level character and yet somehow Silver Sable was able to out maneuver him and knock him on his feet. Someone who is strong enough to move planets and faster than light, out maneuvered by a normal human. Its idiotic. A few comments tried to justify it as "She turned his weight against him" or "Fighting skills can help fight against greater strength" or other stuff that would work really well in a real life situation because you could potentially get the better of someone who is bigger and stronger with fighting skill and using their weight and size against them. These people forget however that this logic doesn't work on someone so beyond a normal human that we can't even fathom how strong they really are. She is in no way getting the better of Blue Marvel in an open fight, he is suppose to be Superman level, a normal human regardless of peak physical fitness or martial arts skill should ever be able to just toss him on the ground. This moment after all she did in Spider-Man start to make her come off as Mary Sue, they just keep letting her easily get the better of people who are far stronger than her. In the case of Spider-Man, he is closer to her power level so its much more acceptable for her to win against him but it should still not be easy. Spider-Man can lift several tons, he can punch so hard he could easily kill a normal human if he wasn't holding back and at one point Doc Ock in Spider-Man's body punched Scorpion's jaw off on accident because he wasn't holding back and Scorpion is super human so Spider-Man in physical strength is really powerful compared to regular humans. Besides that his speed allows him to easily dodge bullets, even automatic fire so guns aren't really that effective against him and he can web them up to prevent them from even being able to fire pretty quickly so he can take them out easily as well. All this, and he also has the Spider-Sense which warns him of danger almost like its precognition. Pretty much, the moment his opponent even starts to move in for an attack, Spider-Man senses it and counterattacks so along with super human speed and senses, he has a Spider-Sense that gives him advanced warning of an attack so he's extremely hard to hit for normal humans. Silver Sable by all accounts shouldn't be able to just kick him in the face, he's faster and has a power that would have warned him of the kick before she did it and shooting traps around him shouldn't be that easy either, Spider-Sense would warn him of that and he would back the fuck away from them before they activated. Silver Sable would have to fight smart, which would make her seem very awesome if she found ways to get around his powers but as far as I recall from this game she just casually kicks his ass as if he was just some normal schmuck in a costume, not a super human who far outclasses regular ones. There are good ways and bad ways to have your non powered heroes beat someone who typically outclasses them. For a good one, many Batman/Superman fights come to mind. With these fights, Batman either is exploiting his known weaknesses (kryptonite, red sun energy), using a suit that lets him keep up physically, has help from someone else or depending on the context Superman is holding back, mind controlled or was weakened prior to the fight so he isn't at 100%. Batman isn't just punching him in the face with his normal strength and knocking him out cold, he is planning, strategizing, exploiting weaknesses, getting assistance or fighting a clearly not 100% Superman so its more reasonable that he is doing good. Another thing that helps is that even when he wins, its portrayed as a hard fight so Batman doesn't come off as bullshit, he comes off as cool because he successfully managed to beat someone stronger than him in a reasonable way that makes sense for his and Superman's power levels. A bad way would be Deathstroke defeating the Justice League in Identity Crisis. While Deathstroke is a super soldier and definitely above normal humans, he's not THAT powerful. I imagine he is Captain America level, just at a level where he's super human, but not vastly enough that he is almost godlike. With this in mind when he goes against the Flash who's massively faster than light, Green Lantern who has the strongest weapon in the universe that lets him create anything and Zatana who is a powerful magic user, he shouldn't win on his own, or at least not easily. This isn't the case however as he casually takes each one out. He stabs the Flash by 'thinking faster than him' even though that is impossible because the Flash is MASSIVELY FASTER THAN LIGHT and this includes his thinking ability, he over powers Green Lantern's ring with his willpower, willpower being the one thing that lets you be a Green Lantern and somehow a non Green Lantern can over power one. Why the fuck has he not been recruited then if he has greater willpower than a Green Lantern? I forget the rest of the fight but its the same amount of bullshit. Someone who is barely super human taking on people with godlike powers and making them like chumps, apparently because the writer loves the character and wanted to make him bad ass. No fighting smart, no reasonable situation to validate the victory, he just wins because of fan wanking. Silver Sable seems to be the result of trying to sell her to the general audience before her movie, similar to how Marvel chooses its characters in Marvel vs Capcom to get them out there before they do anything big as Rocket Raccoon, Iron Fist and Dr. Strange showed up in MVC3 before their MCU debut. Not only do her victories seem bullshit but they also seemingly happen just to hype her up but letting her effortlessly beat up Spider-Man doesn't make her hype for me, it just makes her annoying. She is allowed to win against Spider-Man, I have no issue with that. Its just the WAY she wins that is the issue. You have to make it look reasonable and not fan wanking or its just annoying and people will likely see through it. Its also not because she is a woman, a man with the same shit as her would still annoy me if he won the same way, its the WAY they won, not the fact they won or their gender. When you want a character to be cool, you have to show why they are cool, why they are awesome, why we should respect them. Just letting them win every fight does not do this, it makes the character annoying, unlikable and unreasonable. Show their intelligence, their cunning, their wit, show their strengths, show their weaknesses, show them overcoming them, show their abilities and their capabilities. If all we get is a random character always winning with the seeming goal of marketing or fan wanking then there isn't much too that character besides them being an annoyance to the main character, and since the audience likely enjoys the main character, they aren't going to enjoy the thing annoying them or making their lives harder.

[@Modeloman8]

Dude you almost got a "totally not mark" thing with the pace of your voice

[@AceLM92]

Did you really say that Kingpin is just a Burley dude? He even said in that first appearance in Spider-Man's comic that what people mistaken for fat is actually hardened muscle

[@steveschmider8487]

If I had to say which female character was written correctly, it was yuri watantbe. She was a badass cause she actually kicked the right ass, she knows spider man is a ally and does help when she can. She has a personality and makes good jokes when the time calls for it( like when she laughs at spider man cause he was swindled by black cat). And her becoming wraith in dlc made sense and was done perfectly in my opinion. The character was awesome and the actress did a great job. Mj and silver sable were written badly with Mary Jane being more understandable and more tolerable than silver sable. Seriously what the f were the writer’s doing? I think they were stoned off their asses and didn’t give a shit when writing this character. Also technically insomniac are a bunch of liars cause they said that the dlc( the city that never sleeps) was going to be handled with as much care and effort as the main game. They lied about that cause while the first two parts were good, the third part sucked. Silver sable was written terribly with her inconsistent character and she forced in despite her not being needed here. How could insomniac lie to their fans like that? Much care and effect my ass. Reminds me how rocksteady lied about the Arkham knight being a original character but it was red hood which everyone saw a mile way. I hope they explain how and why sable was written as bad she was. Also they said “ we listen to the fans”. Also bullshit.

[@rebal180]

Black Cat has actually been given Superpowers on multiple occasions. The most popular example of this is her 90's series version where she was injected with a knock off of the Super Soldier serum. Other times she's been able to give her opponents actual bad luck.

[@MarcAlcatraz]

The same problems i have with Sable's design choices also carry over the Black Cat's design; less interesting hair and a bland costume that loses its theme. When it comes to superheroes always go by the Rule of Cool: if it looks cool and eyecatching, then do it.

[@peacemaster8117]

"Nobody has a problem with Spidey losing to The Punisher" I do. Remember when Ennis wrote a story where Frank beats Spidey by making him think he's stepped on a landmine? The idea that Frank could ever get a hand up on Spidey makes no sense unless you pretend spider-sense doesn't exist.

[@stevenwoods5787]

as great as this game is, they really, REALLY botched it with the girl power shit they threw in there. between silver sable and the mary jane missions and character changes, they made alot of the women in this game pretty unlikable

[@DrawMaster115]

We lost a God. Someone who respected your time, was consisce and believed in their argument.

[@ThunderClapClide]

Leave it to the writer’s of this game to neuter what could have been such a cool character. I’m not saying that this game is poorly written, just that they had enough to work with, and yet she sucks in this game. What happened?

[@steveschmider8487]

I wish we knew. I want to know what was going inside the writer’s head when writing her.

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

Also Mary Jane is an ass to Peter the entire game and he just sucks it up and apologizes the whole time. *Cough*feminism*cough*

[@crossbones116]

Should've just sent her to fight Doc Ock since Spider-Man can apparently never win a fucking fight with her.

[@Elnegro..]

Love how she can just own spiderman as if there isn't a little thing called spider sense. Black cat isnt just some normal person who's really skilled. She has luck powers kinda like that x men villain domino ( I think is her name ) things go in her favor, and she also has the superhero serum so enhanced strength, enhanced speed, brain processing etc just like cap but on a lower level like miles spider sense compared to Peter's spider sense.

[@-Trauma.]

Maybe Spider-Man was just playing along. He's always holding back anyway, no matter who he encounters. It's how she didn't ruin the game for me.

[@matthewlee7794]

Yeah i just have to keep telling myself that. Although he made really good points, the bottom line is that spider man shoulda kicked her ass. He's way too powerful.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

@@matthewlee7794 the issue there is that Spider-man should kick tons of people's ass, but we keep trying to push him as being a Street Level Hero, when Spidey has way too many powers for that to be true.

[@jagtech490]

LupineShadowOmega Wait he’s street level like not in terms of strength but in rank too?

[@-Trauma.]

@@jagtech490 I mean if he did just utterly destroyed her without holding back...it would kind of fuck up Spiderman's character tbh. Yeah he was just like: "Aw man she thinks I'm a bad guy."

[@CP-uw4ts]

@@-Trauma. spidey has laid out plenty of people, especially in the spider island arc.

[@mackenzierichardson7008]

Black widow and black cat are both enhanced in the comics.

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

I love the overall game, but I always hated how the narrative is more sympathetic towards a corrupt polician/wealthy businessman and a fascist mercenary than the people the former royally screwed over.

[@SHINXANTA]

This entire video could almost work for Nathan/Samuel Drake vs Nadine

[@hchthenerd]

He's definitely capable of beating silver sable. I feel like he was holding back

[@Hynotama]

My only problem with her in the game is that I couldn't feed her her own teeth. She's the type of character like Jeoffrey Beratheon from game of thrones. She's supposed to be annoying and while I can accept that, I really think they should have allowed us to kick her teeth in or at least let her get her due in a cutscene or something.

[@arul15099]

I really hate sable that she kick spiderman easily. Spiderman is more powerful compared her but still they make him weak agains sable 🤦

[@ski7301]

I wanted Spider-Man to kick her ass SO bad, I fucking hated Silver Sable in this game. Also the reason why Black Cat is able to stand a chance against Spider-Man is because she has a superpower where other people around her become less lucky. (Because Black Cats are “unlucky”) It’s obscure and not a lot of people know about it, but it’s in the comics and they reference it in the game. Silver Sable is just a bitch though

[@RamblePak64]

I think your theory that Silver Sable was included for cinematic purposes is a possibility, but I also think there are other factors that have determined why she's kind of ineffective. Granted, they're all theories, so it's not like I have any greater insight. Problem number one is that they have a gameplay "need" that is more like a gameplay "trope". Most open-world games increase the number of opponents on the ground as the game progresses. Assassin's Creed has more guards on rooftops and more patrols with more varied and complicated weaponry. Arkham City had an increase in criminals and other forces (it's been a while so I don't remember it so specifically. I DO recall Arkham Origins having a sniper on every roof near the end, which just killed any desire to roam the open-world). Perhaps the design department decided it was going to be a more militaristic force, and then the creative writing division decided it could make for some "subtle" (by Twitter standards) political commentary regarding Osborne and his care for civilian freedom. Perhaps the writing team told the designers "Hey, why don't we...?" and then the game designers began working on a militaristic force. Whichever came first, Silver Sable is chosen as the most likely character to have such powers on hand. My guess then would be that they wanted to portray Silver Sable as a "strong female character", which was made difficult because she needs to be an antagonistic force but, in keeping with her comic character (and perhaps hopes of a commercial for an upcoming film), not a villain. Unfortunately, similar to Mary Jane being angry at Spider-Man for doing the reasonable vigilante thing when seeing someone pointing a gun at someone else, the writing and/or execution doesn't think deeply enough into the actual logic of things. Spider-Man conveniently loses his Spider Sense whenever Silver Sable is around, he's not able to reason with her, and she's seemingly oblivious to the actual goings on of the story every step of the way. The game could have had her grow suspicious by time she encounters Spider-Man a second time and thus encourage her to do her own digging, so that by time she encounters Spider-Man the third time she's actively there to help. Maybe, for whatever reason, her forces have actually turned on her. Maybe she's about to pull out because she has an honor code, but her second-in-command decides money is more valuable than a sense of honor. Of course, that all could clutter a story that's already loaded with villains that honestly don't get much time to develop. Still, Sable definitely could have been improved. That's my guess, at least. She is largely included to fill in a mechanical need first, and the writing came after. This is why she decides to leave, despite leaving her forces behind... which... I mean... what? How does that logically work? That's why I figured the betrayal would work better for her character.

[@redaaron4635]

Silver is the same thing as the women in the Avengers end game. They show up, say "Hey im strong and I have a baby maker" and do nothing at all to help the plot. It's their attempt to please people against sexism but when you really break it down it is sexist. By making them strong because they are women instead of because they are a person still ties them to the characteristic that they are women. The whole movement is about equality, seeing them as people and treating them as people. There is also the issue with Mary Jane. Peter doesn't come off as being restrictive of her because "she's a woman". He is restrictive of her because she's just a person around people with guns. This is the " if someone robs you at gunpoint, give them what they want" rule. Spiderman is a superhero and the cops have guns and bulletproof vests. By making her this "strong independent" woman makes her feel like a reckless and stupid character who relies on luck. If they wanted Mary Jane to be a strong CHARACTER, then they could have put her in a strong leadership position somewhere in the game like that cop lady "forgot her name but she's the black-haired women who works for the police" In spiderman 3 I hated how they gave mary jane the same role three times. "Be the love interest, get caught, get saved by spiderman. It treated her like a woman instead of a character. Same thing here only now they are tipping the other side of the boat. " be the love interest, be a strong independent woman, save yourself". Just by God how hard is it to "be the love interest, help out in the plot and be supportive, be there at the end to clap like all the other side characters". Just drop this cringy **** sucking mess of a character arc that way I can enjoy seeing these people on screen without rolling my eyes.

[@lt_alenko]

So, basically Silver Sable went to Kai Leng's Academy for Obnoxious Writer's Pet Antagonists?

[@lt_alenko]

Shows me for commenting before the end of the video. Punchy ending, love it!

[@ski7301]

I wanted Spider-Man to kick her ass SO bad, I fucking hated Silver Sable in this game. Also the reason why Black Cat is able to stand a chance against Spider-Man is because she has a superpower where other people around her become less lucky. It’s obscure and not a lot of people know about it, but they reference it in the game. Silver Sable is just a bitch though

[@linusmethtips1006]

Who would win: The guy that can lift up tanks A karen

[@samuelsanchez1694]

I dont get sable in the game at least. In the fight against the henchmen of rhino her army is attacking me but not the henchmen shooting me when they are right beside the army

[@johnsummers2943]

Silver Sable is a strong women who needs no man or powers to but a man in his place. Are you sick of this shit yet? I love this game but it made me hate Silver Sable. I hope she NEVER comes back in these games UNLESS you get to beat her.

[@salem8231]

Its been a while now since I played Spider Man, and until watching your last video about it I forgot Silver Sable altogether

[@sofialucisano]

I would rather take a badass mercenary over a carbon copy Walmart cat-woman but that’s just me😀

[@dankestmemes9843]

Silver Sable was included because the team at Insomniac were inspired by the Ultimate comics and they also mentioned that they were inspired by Ultimate Spider-Man's video game that she was featured in.

[@luizzeroxis]

Hey, her clothing isn't totally civilian, she uses a cape! That's something only super people do.

[@1r0zz]

It's a trench, or some other long jacket... Only used by antiheroes!

[@DarthWall275]

I hated her with a passion in the base game, mostly for being a hostile, angry feminist Mary Sue bitch who's so perfect and undefeatale, yet so incompetent at her mission, but I admit she actually started to grow on me in the DLC when she defrosted a little and became somewhat likeable... She's just a big tsundere really, the "high-five" is proof of that.

[@Mutavr]

Yay, new Shamus Young video

[@deliriouszora]

I understand all the other parts, before Character arcs, mostly agree, but imma nickpick one thing and say if she wasn't there at the end, Spiderman would've been surrounded, and he wouldn't have gotten the help. And I mostly like Sable for her voice. And you also skipped the fact she had gadgets that stopped Spiderman from using his powers, which is more than just two guns. But I do wish her outfit was more, her having more of like metal plating would look pretty cool. I never really thought about her outfit til you pointed it out.