I think I prefer the narrative that 1 mango lets the blob survive, and additional allow them to reproduce, because it’s so tragic that the blobs die every day
@aguyontheinternet84369 ай бұрын
blobs will starve no matter what you do
@volodyadykun64909 ай бұрын
All things must pass
@thekingoffailure99679 ай бұрын
This is an accurate simulation of real world populations. Google how many humans die every day lol
@andresmartinezramos75139 ай бұрын
The way it's presented in the video better extends when changing the simulation to allow for mutations. Because both offspring can mutate, while if it's a parent child relation only one can mutate.
@SgtSupaman9 ай бұрын
@@andresmartinezramos7513 , it could just as easily be said that the one that survived chose to change strategies. Both blobs can still have the same odds of mutating.
@Lgapwookie9 ай бұрын
One thing I am interested in is what would happen if the team blobs learned to find each other and avoid the solos letting them fight each other
@BrianHoschouer9 ай бұрын
I was thinking it would be interesting if they made siblings more likely to go together to the tree.
@nyphron31099 ай бұрын
Correlated interaction! One of my favorite parts of evolutionary game theory. If team try to find team, and solo try to find solo (or don't care who they find), then cooperation will evolve so long as the team blobs find each other enough. That point is determined by Hamilton's Rule, and is actually a pretty neat piece of math. It was initially devised to deal with how altruism applies, but because of some game theory shenannigans, it applies here too. On the other hand, if team try to find team, and solo also try to find team (they do better against team than solo blobs), then it's mathematically like there's no correlated interaction at all. Hope that helped!
@amv2409 ай бұрын
@@nyphron3109❤️🙏
@The-Milky-Way--they-it9 ай бұрын
omg that’d be so cool! the biggest thing I was left wondering, since I’ve also watched the altruism video, is what would happen if the teamwork blobs gave birth to, or were more likely to give birth to, more teamwork blobs. since in the end they all end up with more food, it would mean they’d have a higher population, right?
@Tiziotozio01-cz1nd4 ай бұрын
@@nyphron3109with evolve do you mean take over? I mean everything are still evolving all the time.
@PrimerBlobs4 ай бұрын
A clarification: The standard term for what I called a "Strong Nash" is actually "Strict Nash". "Strong Nash" means something else, but it's only relevant in more complicated situations, so I hope it doesn't cause confusion here. But strictly speaking, I should have used "Strict" in this video!
@NotKingOfBees4 ай бұрын
Nah bro first like, and reply is crazy
@NoWayAmIAChannel4 ай бұрын
Nah bro third like, and second reply is crazy
@KaratekidDom1234 ай бұрын
5 like and 3rd reply
@GoldenmakerObjectCosmos4 ай бұрын
ba dum tsss
@johnchessant30124 ай бұрын
6 like and 5th reply
@gamb9 ай бұрын
fun fact: the Nash Equilibrium was made by John Nash, who was actually an extremely schizophrenic mathematician and the case study of how he dealt with it is taught in most introductory clinical psychology courses. He even has a movie about him that is great (albeit inaccurate).
@nerdlord3149 ай бұрын
I just watched that movie yesterday
@histhoryk26489 ай бұрын
That's good, I don't need to deal with schizophrenia I just need to do some math
@TheBaxes9 ай бұрын
@@histhoryk2648it's a 2x1 deal
@xtxownage9 ай бұрын
"What if *nobody* goes for the blonde girl?"
@ArchitectGG9 ай бұрын
@@LeZylox Hey look, we found THAT guy.
@smallw19919 ай бұрын
How did this guy come up with such a perfect creature, the b l o b
@pilzi8759 ай бұрын
Math
@Cannotoad12019 ай бұрын
F
@elchuchooofin38079 ай бұрын
And the perfect house: r o c k
@EEEEEEEE9 ай бұрын
E
@Cannotoad12019 ай бұрын
@@EEEEEEEE E
@kylerivera34709 ай бұрын
I'd love to see a more complex simulation where, rather than the blobs dying after a single round of gathering, they instead do multiple rounds first and remember who the solo blobs are. A few other ideas to make it more interesting are: -Sharing with blobs who got nothing. -Solo blobs that will try to steal from teamwork groups. -Blobs who change what they do depending on how other blobs treat them. -Larger groups who get less each, but can block solo blobs. -Smart blobs who wait to act selfishly. -Traitor blobs who work with each other, but are selfish against team and solo blobs.
@SansULB299 ай бұрын
Hmm interesting... -this one kind of simulates charity. -this simulates stealing (obviously) -this is some level of emotion -this somewhat simulates tribalism/the idea that "we are stronger together" -basically simulates smarter stealers -this creates a new "faction" of blobs
@Bozebo9 ай бұрын
That's so difficult to build but it'd be fun. It's either get stuck implementing and experimenting with specifics; or you'd need to find a way to fractally have the game rules modify over time/generations and have ML decision making models for each blob as an agent and let the rest emerge "naturally" and then analyse what emerged to see if you incidentally created for example "traitor blobs who work with each other, but are selfish against team and solo blobs" and what they did.
@SansULB299 ай бұрын
@@Bozebo ye..
@nyphron31099 ай бұрын
Evolutionary game theory has answers for all those questions! In order: - Altruism can evolve when the ratio of blobs who share is greater than (penalty for sharing / benefit for sharing). That's called Hamilton's Rule. - This wouldn't make that big of a difference mathematically, because it's basically already happening. - That's called Hawk-Dove-Retaliator, and is a super famous game in game theory. Basically, you try to be cooperative, but if your partner attacks/betrays you, you attack them back. It turns out that cooperating can evolve if there are enough retaliators in the population to keep the solos out. But if there aren't enough, the solos will invade. - This one actually isn't classic game theory, but would definitely be interesting. It's basically a more extreme form of teamwork. I expect it wouldn't change much, though. - This would be the opposite of the retaliator from before: they go to cooperate, but betray anyone who cooperates with them. They wouldn't do very good, because they'd kill each other off. - This would be pre-play signalling (or greenbeard effect), which is a known way for cooperation to evolve. Basically, we make signals at each other, and if we both get the signal, then we cooperate. The issue is if the other blobs can learn: then, I could make the signal at you, you'd try to cooperate, but I'd betray you. So how well pre-play signalling works depends heavily on the constraints of the simulation. Hope that helped! Everything there is Google-able, too.
@SansULB299 ай бұрын
@@nyphron3109 I'm pretty new at evolutionary game theory and this topic is really interesting to me. Thanks for the explanation!
@TheMitchyevans9 ай бұрын
Cooperative strategies almost always work better in repeated interactions, especially when a tit-for-tat strategy is being utilized. It is interesting to see how these equilibria form even under these conditions.
@EEEEEEEE9 ай бұрын
E
@Mpkki9 ай бұрын
Y'know, it would be interesting to see a harder system where blobs survive if they have 1 food and reproduce for any excess and keep the memory of blobs they met and can communicate in their under-the-same-rock groups, so that tit-for-tat could actually be a thing. For example, a team blob could change its behavior (if beneficial) if it knows that the second blob is solo because this solo blob interacted with another team player from the same rock home the day before, or the other way around.
@belg4mit9 ай бұрын
The key is that evolution *is* repeated interaction. Whether the same individuals ineract, or their descendants, the impact is the same in a stateless situation (no memory of previous interaction to implement tit-for-tat)
@Dogo.R9 ай бұрын
Tit for tat definition: The best strategy is to assume cooperation at first. Then if they act one-sided in that interaction then in your next interact you strive to exactly* negate the extra benefit they received from acting one-sided instead of cooperatively. Then then next interaction you assume cooperation again. This strategy performs better then all other strategies invented as long as you can keep track of who you have interacted with previously and whether they acted cooperatively or one-sided that last time. And this same strategy can be observed in nature... though animals arnt dynamic like humans. They cant really switch strategy within the same livespan. Their behavior is formed due to evolution instead. Also worth mentioning that the above is based on perfect information. The optimal strategy has many more features and complexities when there is imperfect information but it still follows this core aim. The extra stuff is just trying to deal with signal error.
@Scrogan9 ай бұрын
Only if the situation isn’t designed to produce a prisoners’ dilemma. If you were an authoritarian regime and wanted to prevent your citizens from gaining power, you’d make it more beneficial for them to turn on one another than to cooperate. See East Germany and the USSR. I’d also watch out for lawmakers and lobbyists doing this in the current age in what we think are liberal democracies.
@atypicalprogrammer57779 ай бұрын
It would be interesting if the Blobs could only visit trees near their "home". (Edit I did that myself, see the bottom of the comment) I imagine a start with 50% solos with 2 Nash Equilibrii would result in a mix of "friendly neighbourhoods" where cooperation dominates and "battlefields" where fighting dominates. Edit: I made a simulation, with a grid of 32 by 32 worlds, each with 4 trees, and enough houses for 64 blobs. I used the same rules about blobs going to get food from trees and reproducing as in the video. Except each of my blobs can freely visit trees in their own world, and the 4 nearby worlds, and the blob's children can choose to move to a nearby world. I started with 1 friendly and 1 solo blob at far-apart worlds and looked at 256 turns. With the setup from 3:23 two "nations" formed, but (as some people below predicted before I tested it) the friendly nation eventually -- after almost all 256 turns -- was able to convert the entire world to its peaceful ways, by force. The friendly nation was able to sustain a much larger population, so enough friendly blobs "immigrated" to the unfriendly neighbourhood each turn, that they were able to cooperate with each other to get more resources than the "locals". Edit: My C++ code is on Github dot com slash nikolajRoager slash blobsOnLattice (I am apparently not allowed to include a link in a comment) The code is not tested on windows, and normal warnings about running random code from the internet apply.
@EEEEEEEE9 ай бұрын
E
@cheshire19 ай бұрын
in that scenario cooperation would dominate, because the overall rewards among cooperators are so much higher than between fighters.
@Lotschi9 ай бұрын
@@cheshire1right! We might get the neighbourhoods but the cooperative ones would slowly extend.
@edgytoucan34449 ай бұрын
friendly neighborhoods contain large eyeless birds and reluctant cable guys
@guilherme8329 ай бұрын
Yes, but I think that'd be just like each different world that he created. In a way, he already did a each neighbourhood thing
@classkid3219 ай бұрын
These concepts are very much over my head but I appreciate you putting them into blob form and explaining them
@MortonArchery9 ай бұрын
I'd love to see the outcome of a fission/fusion species much like coyotes. Unlike wolves they don't require a pack, but can group up if needed. It apparently worked well for them as they were the only predator to be almost unaffected by the predator war.
@MartianSantas9 ай бұрын
What predator war are you talking about? I'd love to read about it
@MortonArchery9 ай бұрын
@@MartianSantas basically all of north american large predators. The books american serengeti and coyote America cover the subject quite well.
@scientificthesis9 ай бұрын
Which case would that count as in this video?
@MortonArchery9 ай бұрын
@@scientificthesis neither, it's a combo of the two. They would switch between the two when necessary
@minaashido5189 ай бұрын
@@MortonArcheryby predator war are you talking emu war style or world war style Basically is it animals vs humans or animals vs other animals?
@DR.Afterthought9 ай бұрын
Next we are going to simulate the evolution of evolution
@sriramkumaran23109 ай бұрын
Only belief in christ
@SamuraiPipotchi9 ай бұрын
Pretty sure he's already done that
@oldvlognewtricks9 ай бұрын
@@sriramkumaran2310Nah - we’re clever enough not to need fairytales to explain this stuff.
@doctaterror9 ай бұрын
@@oldvlognewtricksyes we all think youre very intelligent, now r/atheism is down the hall to the left
@oldvlognewtricks9 ай бұрын
@@doctaterror Who needs to be an atheist to comprehend basic emergent behaviour?
@vivialanis95219 ай бұрын
Every time Primer uploads it feels like a life checkpoint
@--F0X-by-The-Moon--6 ай бұрын
Fr
@ic1cl39 ай бұрын
And when the world needed him most He returned
@emilvinod9 ай бұрын
Really cool
@elchuchooofin38079 ай бұрын
Weird that today i was thinking "man i wanna watch sum primer"
@SansULB299 ай бұрын
*Y E S*
@gamingwithpapaandfriends3 ай бұрын
and then he left again
@qNoobj9 ай бұрын
I think we should all agree to appreciate how he uploads 3 times a year
@frankleahy2269 ай бұрын
An interesting simulation would be one of 2+ importing/exporting economies which trade currency for goods with each other, but neither/one/both can print money at varying rates.
@beaub1529 ай бұрын
Yes, economic simulations would be cool
@genius314159 ай бұрын
We have endless patience with you Mr. Primer, and it always pays off.
@Rar5440-d3z2 ай бұрын
I don't
@chaosruby97929 ай бұрын
11:02 wait blobs have butts? i really should learn about the blob anatomy
@enderkatze61299 ай бұрын
Now, Here's what i would find super interesting to simulate: Introducing blobs that weigh their chances. I.e. a (perhaps purple) blob that knows it's chances and chooses either fight or cooperation based on what would be Most advantageous in regards to what their opponent is
@akirachisaka99979 ай бұрын
I feel like my first thought when watching this video is, what is the team blobs retaliate? Like, if the team blob notices that the cooperator betrays them, they just suicide attack? Will this make it favor the team blobs more?
@jessehammer1239 ай бұрын
My name is Inigo Blobtoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
@Jellylamps9 ай бұрын
It sounds to me like this situation is one that would intensify whichever strategy has a greater population.
@conlon43329 ай бұрын
@@Jellylamps Yeah, if they meet they both die, which is worse for whichever there are less of, causing the outnumbered group to die out. Interested what would happen if they start out equal, though.
@skreppeknekker9 ай бұрын
This is why tit-for-tat is a better strategy, but it means the losing team blob needs to be able to remember the solo blob and/or pass this informs to other team blobs. This is why humans developed language: to gossip and share who in the group was trustworthy or not
@flameofthephoenix83959 ай бұрын
@@skreppeknekker Species is irrelevant, all animals are equally likely to gossip.
@KenesuEXE9 ай бұрын
12:16 i love the graph within a graph visuals Graphinception
@teamcyeborg9 ай бұрын
I'd be curious how these simulations change if the blobs can somehow communicate or remember info, since the Prisoner's Dilemma was brought up. The best strategy in a single prisoner's dilemma is to go solo, but in a repeated situation where you can communicate you're better off teaming up with your opponent or - even better - playing Tit For Tat
@revimfadli46669 ай бұрын
Imagine putting neural networks in blobs, I wonder what strategies would emerge
@nyphron31099 ай бұрын
@@revimfadli4666 Not much. Neural networks suck at game theory when they're playing in pairs.
@revimfadli46669 ай бұрын
@@nyphron3109 wait really? How? What kind of network topology and size? Deterministic or stochastic policies?
@nyphron31099 ай бұрын
@@revimfadli4666 it doesn’t matter, which is the interesting part. The issue you have is that the neural networks lack context that living players in game theory intuitively have. I just wrote a paper on this, actually.
@revimfadli46669 ай бұрын
@@nyphron3109 interesting, what kind of context? What's the paper title? Can you make context-informed neural networks to fix that? Does that inability apply to evolutionary game theory (where agents don't even need decision making capabilities), or just classic game theory? Can this "intuition" or its analogue emerge in an evolutionary game ecosystem, just like gene-determined behaviour?
@realspacepro9 ай бұрын
I DIDN'T CARE TO READ THE TITLE, THE MOMENT I RECOGNISED THE BLOBS I CLICKED
@darkheartplays0075 ай бұрын
ME TOO
@Coolguythatexist5 ай бұрын
ME TOO
@Gloggle4 ай бұрын
ME TOO
@literallyaflower9 ай бұрын
Hey primer, i’ve been following your videos for years and I love how as I grow older, I understand more about your videos! When I was younger I never really understood what you were saying, and just liked the blobs and the numbers, but now I can truly follow what you’re saying and I think that’s fascinating.
@MattTrevett9 ай бұрын
The timing with Veritasium's video is impeccable.
@cinnamonkittamon9 ай бұрын
Its interesting that, for the bottom left, middle, and top right ones, how it goes from quickly diverging away from the center, to having no preference, and then to going toward the center
@alexandermoldoveanu84249 ай бұрын
Noticed that as well, it's fascinating
@galacgacwatson31029 ай бұрын
I just noticed that sometimes the blobs blink one eye at a time. For example, the red blob at 5:55
@damseydiou9 ай бұрын
the blobs are truly more iconic than anything i can possibly think of.
@kiraoshiro61579 ай бұрын
idk the moon is pretty iconic.. oh wait that's just ya mum
@damseydiou9 ай бұрын
@@kiraoshiro615779 buried, 3 found
@DannySullivanMusic9 ай бұрын
Whenever Primer uploads I drop my newborn child and watch
@nicktohzyu9 ай бұрын
Would love to see an analysis where the blobs evolve not just on a binary team/solo strategy, but on mixed nash equilibria! Where they have a probability of either cooperating or defecting
@peuterschmidt9 ай бұрын
Just watched the latest Veritasium video on "The Prisoner's Dilema" and it goes well with this video.
@omeg54733 ай бұрын
0:16 *BUT WAIT..*
@juniotongol23929 күн бұрын
ITS JUST A THEORY
@oliverturner76106 күн бұрын
A MANGO THEORY
@MicroYeti9 ай бұрын
7:56 - in these ‘battle of the sexes’ equilibria (there are two distinct Nash equilibria where players benefit from doing the same thing as their opponent), the usual strategy players will go for is to randomly mix your strategies based on the expected output from mixing the strategies in such a way. That’s the third Nash equilibrium in the problem, since there are (almost) always an odd number of Nash equilibria. Alternatively, since the game is repeated in this case, the threat of reverting to the inferior Nash of solo solo would generally encourage rational players to always choose team team to maximise their long term utility gained. Impatient players, or players that prefer rewards now than rewards later, might be willing to switch to solo and then have the other player also play solo forever. Haven’t yet got onto the bit of the video about evolutionary theory, where you might cover this, but that’s the continuation from within standard game theory :)
@guywholovemaps15919 ай бұрын
You know it’s a great month when premiere uploads
@daniellaizekemoe19677 ай бұрын
4:47 Hypothesis: if the percentage of team blobs are higher than the percentage of solo blobs. The team blobs will prevail. This is because while the solo blobs are hurting eachother, the team blobs cooperate with aneanother. And if there ever is a team blob-solo blob interactioj of different species, the team blobs will just one-up eachother with the best possible out-comes while the solos win't benefit at all if they aren't the majority. Vice versa if the solo-blobs are the norm. In game theory, I believe this might be similar to the prisoner's dilemma. As it follows the same genral reward system ( well, besides the alternative option of one for them-selves).
@lester56776 ай бұрын
Nice videos man
@ryonotrio69049 ай бұрын
I completely forgot the existence of primer so when this video popped up on my feed, I was very pleasantly surprised
@ch-animatestudios9 ай бұрын
I love how you ask us to think critically while we watch. It’s really unique and I like trying to do math and predict how these things will work out 👍
@sharknemesis51099 ай бұрын
Always a good year when Primer posts.
@MirrorscapeDC9 ай бұрын
I feel like there is a flaw in not allowing the blobs to respond to previous behavior. Most cooperating creatures are also social enough to know and remember others and build some form of relationship. So what would happen if all blob pairs played, say, three rounds? In the first, they act according to their nature. In the second and third, they are able to respond to what the other blob did before. So if the other blob betrayed them, they would act like a solo blob with them in following rounds.
@oldvlognewtricks9 ай бұрын
Effect is basically the same, since the aggregate population has the same pressure to change
@acctsys9 ай бұрын
Hawks get the first strike
@michaelkindt32882 ай бұрын
@3:43-.-They feel pretty evenly matched here. I don't imagine one's going to dominate. But I guess I would say if one becomes slightly more common by chance, then they'll be able to overtake the rest of the population. Because each strategy seems to be the most effective when it meets itself. Not that I took a little second to think about it, I suppose the team strategy has the advantage of spreading its numbers among themselves, meaning teams get a collective booth when they meet themselves, well solo only barely breaks even. So teams are probably going to win.
@SolarDelite9 ай бұрын
Evolution is awesome af
@feeb49669 ай бұрын
Hiiiiii
@SolarDelite9 ай бұрын
@@feeb4966 hiya :D
@7amoody.buhazza9 ай бұрын
When the world needed Primer most, he came back.
@syriuszb86118 ай бұрын
Consider the scenario, where instead of blobs choosing tree fully randomly, they choose them somewhat close to them, maybe even if already have 1 blob on the tree (or with a chance? or gene that controls that chance?). So the families would be more likely to end up with same tree. Then probably teamwork will have advantage, even if personally, they will have disadvantage.
@MrGoo4209 ай бұрын
Could you run a simulation where each blob has some random percentage chance to share or solo when encountering a mango? It would be interesting to see what percentage chances reproduce the most.
@ShifTide9 ай бұрын
you know it's a good decade when Primer posts
@tereziii9 ай бұрын
how many times have you made this video?
@Indoseptic9 ай бұрын
it is a great day when Primer uploads
@user-ts8ok4rk8b7 ай бұрын
*BUT HEY, THAT'S JUST A THEORY, A **0:16*
@kiti_cat5242 ай бұрын
Now this is underrated :)
@Officialaftonrobotics2 ай бұрын
Ñeow
@black_crest3 ай бұрын
I always thought that I heard your voice somewhere and then I was watching Lagrangian Mechanics series by PhysicsHelps today and randomly checked the channel. And it turns out it's you! You're PhysicsHelps! Thanks for not abandoning the platform.
@dougthedonkey18059 ай бұрын
Have you ever played “the evolution of trust”? Your videos like this remind me of it
@JD-qq8fz9 ай бұрын
Scrolled through to find someone else who said this! Nicky Case is brilliant
@SlimyBLOX8 ай бұрын
Can you simulate the evolution of revenge?
@Nimzorax9 ай бұрын
The solos blobs when they are fighting are so CUTE !
@Juanni9 ай бұрын
Hey! I love your videos. I just wanted to give some feedback, though. When you use only small sections of the whole screen, it’s difficult to see. I’d like it if you could zoom in more and then zoom out to show the wider scope. For example, during the section where you show the reward matrices, I would show the 3x3 grid, then when you’re explaining each one, make that situation fill out the whole screen, then zoom back out to show us where that situation fits on the grid. Another, less extreme example is at the start of the reward matrices chapter, where you change the reward matrix to have a weak nash against a Team blob and a strong nash against a Solo blob. you’re mostly using the top left quarter of the screen, with a bit of information in the top right, so the entire bottom half could be removed until we get to the part where we start making the 3x3 grid.
@MoeSzyslak209 ай бұрын
Sounds like a skill issue
@ShepTheCreator9 ай бұрын
Lets go we got our yearly primer video!!!
@Alinor249 ай бұрын
There is a species of lizard with three different strategies and they are in the hawk/dove siatuation. The males have different mating strategies and if one strategy dominates a mating season the females prefer the males with the other two strategies. Along with their different startegies the males also have different colours though, so maybe the females just prefer the rarer colours. (If anyone wants to know the strategies are: monogamous, harem of females and sneakily mating with females from other males.)
@BlazeLycan9 ай бұрын
It is a good year when Primer uploads.
@nokuh.78909 ай бұрын
The blobverse is truly something ❤
@user-xl6yo6gf8e9 ай бұрын
I thought D was correct, because we forgot that other blobs have an disadvantage if you are a solo blob. Being a solo blob will not help you directly but make life harder for other blobs. Therefore the chance for you to find a tree without anyone else being there and therefore gaining 2 fruits is higher. the Graph also seems to show that solo blobs lowly take over
@Aazdremzul9 ай бұрын
I think an interesting idea for this entire thing would be if each side had a mutation that could convince the opposing side. Teamwork can have the Diplomat (Purple), where if it encounters a Red it has a chance to convert it before getting fruits (3/4). Solo can have the Deviant (Orange), where if it encounters a Blue it has a chance to convert it after getting fruits (3/4). If the Diplomat meets a Deviant, they each have a (2/4) to convert the other to a blue or red respectively. A Diplomat and Deviant can only be born from a Blue or Red respectively with at least 5/4 fruit. This would be a way for each to propogate in a social way, because now they have a chance to effectively reproduce without needing to return home for offsprings. It'd show how upbringing and experience can propagate in an environment. The Diplomat represents a person that learned from the previous generation and the Deviant represents a person that continues teaching negative experiences.
@kayodesalandy9 ай бұрын
Technically that should end the very need of the game. Because what makes GT simulations of this kind interesting/relevant is that the 2 sides are unable to coordinate. Like the prisoners dilemma is only a dilemma because you don't know what your opponent is going to play. So assuming teamwork is objectively favourable, and the players are able to learn this, then the problem dissolves.
@Aazdremzul9 ай бұрын
@kayodesalandy That's fair, but I think the interactions and social elements in learning are really interesting to simulate. However, that's probably because I'm on a different wavelength here.
@kayodesalandy9 ай бұрын
@Aazdremzul oh I definitely agree! Like the more I think about it, what if we simulated it for a situation where selfishness was actually objectively better for the individual, but the diplomat can convince them otherwise? Of course the game gets exponentially more complicated because we need to simulate how selfish blobs interact with that proposition (endogenously determined by some factor/variable) to show that they are influenced by their physical environment. Funnily enough I'm not mathematically inclined, but game theory puzzles as word-logic games still appeal to me.
@Aazdremzul9 ай бұрын
@kayodesalandy I'm more interested in socio-economics and psychology personally, but I have a deep admiration for design in all facets. I think it's really interesting how math and probability really finds use in both fun concepts like games and insightful ideas used in psychology.
@gcarifo9 ай бұрын
Man I love your content! The way you do things seems so intuitive like it just makes sense the way you go about things and the results are always so interesting! I also love just how unique your type of videos like simulating natural selection or like social behavior through out human evolution it's something I never see! I really appreciate the hard work and dedication you have keep up the great work! been watching you since your natural selection video
@fgomez2099 ай бұрын
I miss two things that are important in natural environments: (1) An area of team blobs will produce more abundant descendants, and they would migrate and take over areas of solo blobs (2) Two team blobs would look together for a tree and that would be the deciding factor. You tend to overlook the benefits of cooperating.
@defenestrated239 ай бұрын
This isn't a natural environment, it's a toy model to demonstrate evolutionary game theory
@isawawabubthediglett9 ай бұрын
Please keep the blob colours consistent, I always gat so confused when I binge these videos!
@ezfplayz4 ай бұрын
This is why i love computer science! There are many things u can do such as creating, modeling, coding, presenting, simulating, etc if u know what to do and what ur doing.
@Gaster-mm2sd8 ай бұрын
He says game theory, and that almost made me cry because mad pet quit today
@FlyToSpace1001Ай бұрын
‘And The Team Blobs Get Their Butts Kicked’ Is The Best Thing Ive Ever Heard
@RaiderAvian9 ай бұрын
If I were a blob in this wimulated world. I'd offer to shake the tree, knowing the reward for both is better when doing teamwork (2 mangos each). If I see the blob chooses to not help and grab a mango, I'd grab my own and run (you can say the energy spent is similar to fighting, but wil less risk of getting hurt), which I would have liked to be factored in. Because, acting violent can lead to shorter life spans (which could mean in this case a blob does not make through the day and reproduce). Then again, the real world is vastly complex and has a long history where people lived, died, fought, made peace, and threatened to destroy the world as we know it. I am admittedly biased for team/dove blobs. I wish to see a world where people work together. They dont have to like each other, but they have to learn to work with others when living in a populated world.
@Jaun_9 ай бұрын
It’s amazing how unstable these very simple simulations are yet the real world has many stable and more intricate systems.
@user-ix9zt2ls9f8 ай бұрын
It’s just a theory a game theory
@electrocubic51168 ай бұрын
0:16 The moment I saw it, I knew there will be comments like these 😅 5:23 He also purposefully referenced Matpat 😂 I will miss Matpat tho :'(
@Dogo.R9 ай бұрын
The important missing thing here is memory of the previous interaction with that blob. The optimal strategy when memory of previous interactions is involved is known as the tit for tat strategy. Tit for tat definition: The best strategy is to assume cooperation at first. Then if they act one-sided in that interaction then in your next interact you strive to exactly* negate the extra benefit they received from acting one-sided instead of cooperatively. Then in the next interaction you assume cooperation again. This strategy performs better then all other strategies invented as long as you can keep track of who you have interacted with previously and whether they acted cooperatively or one-sided that last time. And this same strategy can be observed in nature... though animals arnt dynamic like humans. They cant really switch strategy within the same livespan. Their behavior is formed due to evolution instead. Also worth mentioning that the above is based on perfect information. The optimal strategy has many more features and complexities when there is imperfect information but it still follows this core aim. The extra stuff is just trying to deal with signal error.
@xaviersavard63439 ай бұрын
One day I'd like to see predator blobs and prey blobs. It would be interesting. Have a good day
@flamethrowex9 ай бұрын
One thing I note in the simulation is that, regardless of how successful any given strategy is, the absolute maximum for overall population never changes, even if a strategy brings more mangos/energy "into" the population overall. As best as I can see, this is because success in one round doesn't carry over points to the next round, it just means more players on your team, and so more competing for the unchanging resource pool. I wonder if the results would change if the blobs were able to stockpile mangos when they have plenty, and/or were able to take mangos from annothers stockpile if it proved more promising than foraging directly from a tree
@MackenzieBailey-q5j9 ай бұрын
People that have been waiting one year for a new primer video 👇
@catec47739 ай бұрын
I'm so glad to see this video, my moods terrible and I needed a pick me up. Thank you Primer!
@thomasbelcher69219 ай бұрын
13:34 Pretty sure the solo blobs actually do have a tiny advantage because every time one meets another blob, that blob gets one less mango. This means it gets rid of its competition so it can carve out more of a niche for itself.
@sharifkhudairi53689 ай бұрын
thats true, but it doesn't take into account that when 2 team blobs meet, both reproduce at a higher rate. So team vs solo, solo produces at a higher rate at the expense of team, but when its team vs team, both team reproduce at a higher rate (while only one solo benefits in the previous exchange).
@Maxtheeggman3 ай бұрын
Okay now simulate racism
@ChingChong029462 ай бұрын
I vote *yes*
@Cider82 ай бұрын
Yessir
@LeoSinha-r6j2 ай бұрын
I think it was techincally done with the green beard video
@Kalaphant2 ай бұрын
Just make it so that 10% of the blobs always fight 90% of them!
@Greeen3Boi72 ай бұрын
Nah bro💀💀💀💀
@Beatrix-VR9 ай бұрын
It's always a good month when primer uploads.
@snippykeegan9 ай бұрын
I just love game theory and i love how you simplify the math with the simulations! i would love to learn how to do such a thing myself so i can play with the variables
@sirnate90659 ай бұрын
These videos are so good. I love the format or the pace - how you gradually introduce complexity.
@PrimerBlobs9 ай бұрын
I'm streaming now on Twitch. Come by to chat about the video or anything else! www.twitch.tv/justin_helps
commenting for the algorithm boost!! love how easy it is to follow along these simulation vids!!
@Maker08249 ай бұрын
I like how many times you've made a video on this same topic. This must be your favorite topic
@GypsyCellist9 ай бұрын
Hi Man U are rhit
@GypsyCellist9 ай бұрын
Hi
@GypsyCellist9 ай бұрын
Same I agree 0:54
@The_Moth13 ай бұрын
I love how your profile picture is a happy blob’s face
@tachyonites95689 ай бұрын
You know it's an educational eon when Primer uploads
@michaelkindt32882 ай бұрын
@4:43-.-I'm guessing team blobs are going to dominate as a become more common.
@tylerbuchanan26898 ай бұрын
I wish more people could see videos like this. I know many don't, but I thrive on basic theory like this. I do have my disagreements sometimes but they are variable based. Love your vids dude! Keep it going
@purplecobra20909 ай бұрын
YES, YOUR NOT GONE! I was just checking your channel again yesterday to see if you uploaded again!
@efjay31839 ай бұрын
07:40 The philosopher Thomas Hobbes referred to the nash equilibrium of both sides fighting the ”state of nature” and he argued that the most imortant aspect of a government, regardless of ideology or benevolence, is to ensure that the only nash equilibrium to exist for its people is to cooperate. He reviled the state of nature. They accomplish this through policing.
@Hello21-tp1ez9 ай бұрын
finally another primer vid is out, ive been waiting for this specific vid for a year
@non-existantgamernop51729 ай бұрын
This is amazing, but a simulation like this doesn’t take into account consequences or any social response when choosing a selfish strategy. Still interesting to see and curious to know the outcome if you add two more stratergies to the mix. Like greed, they get the one fruit near the bottom of the tree but risk their life to get the two at the top and cautious, just taking one and leaving, only having a chance to get more with cooperation.
@taylorhoganson68779 ай бұрын
Dude I was so excited to see a new Primer upload
@taylorhoganson68779 ай бұрын
Update: did not disappoint at all. Awesome video!
@resourceress72 ай бұрын
0:46 Me, a linguist: "Now there are 4 wugs."
@belg4mit9 ай бұрын
I took a college course on this many years ago, but only the basics stuck... well that, and this same thing works at the allele level for genes. This provided much more insight.
@zix24219 ай бұрын
Ура, новое видео! Судя по тому, что они выходят так редко, их сложно делать, удачи
@robertfindley9219 ай бұрын
If I had five employees: - One would work, on his/her assigned tasks, and provide status - One would work, on his/her assigned tasks, but refuse to provide status - One would refuse to work - One would work, but on an unassigned task unrelated to the project - One would complain all the tasks were wrong and should be redefined and re-assigned by him/her
@danielsha73789 ай бұрын
Thanks for all the work you do!
@maxk84252 ай бұрын
I know I am human because for every iteration in which teamwork was more effective, I found myself really rooting for them
@JT-xb6zs8 ай бұрын
I saw a similar test with a college team and they figured out the best strategy was to have a mutation where it copies the last person it came up against so it would copy somebody and be rude. If the other one was rude and then it would copy somebody was nice that was nice so it was always doing the last action that it was received, and that was the best strategy.
@rando56739 ай бұрын
I like how this kind of thing mathematically proves why moral systems work the way they do
@totally_not_a_bot9 ай бұрын
A more realistic version: - Two tribes - Same tribe, we work together - Different tribe, we fight
@NE0KRATOS9 ай бұрын
I love your videos, whenever a new one pops up I watch it immediately! I love game theory, and I love these animations. And the fact that you explore all the questions that pop up in my head is so satisfying! I feel this is the channel I would create if I had the knowledge of how to make these simulations!