Sinking of the Fitzgerald ... Negligence or Nature? Season 3 with Capt. Darrell

There is little doubt that the Edmund Fitzgerald was in one of the worst storms to ever hit the Great Lakes, yet other ships weathered the same storm, including the Arthur M. Anderson, the Wilfred Sykes, the Avafors and more. According to Captain Darrell Walton and Captain Dudley Paquette of the Wilfred Sykes (who weathered the same storm) they believed that although the "Mighty Fitz" was in the "storm of the century", negligence played a key factor in the sinking of the 729-ft. ore carrier in Lake Superior just off Whitefish Bay on November 10, 1975. The Fitzgerald was due to go into drydock for badly needed repairs at the end of the 1975 shipping season, but just one more trip was too much for the Mighty Fitz. Based on what we know, what do you think? Please leave your comments below and thanks for your support of the History Mystery Man. #EdmundFitzgerald #LakeSuperior #GreatLakesShipping #GreatLakes

[@Lonewolf026]

I just found this channel and wow this is great. Learning a lot about the Fitzgerald and Morrell. I had the privilege to meet Dennis Hale and read his book. What a good man and his story and experience is amazing. Capt Darrell is great, he knows his stuff. Thank you

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for finding us...so appreciated! Stop by anytime...HMM

[@motocyco1331]

The Morrell went down 9 years before the Fitzgerald and divers are going in the engine room. Is it not a grave sight? I totally agree that it is a cover up.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting thoughts; thanks for sharing them here. HMM

[@stevesestrich5143]

They found the remains of one of the crew on the last dive. I suspect that the remains of the rest of the crew are still present and intact; like "Old Whitey" on the wreck of the SS Kamloops.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Probably so...thanks. @@stevesestrich5143

[@zachhoward9099]

I believe almost all the bodies of the Morrell crew were recovered and also the engine room sank right side up with that wreck whereas Fitzgerald’s engine room landed upside down into the sediment of the lake bed

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

She was owned by an insurance company

[@terrielilley3456]

The story never gets old. Thank you both.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM

[@jasonhumphry5836]

@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for giving me the song name I'm having trouble finding it on the internet but I tell you this I'm in illinois and when I hear it it makes me want to apply for a job in a ship yard or work for a boat shipping company an set sail for a adventure any help sourcing where I can find it is appreciated thanks again and peace ✌️ and much respect to you Jason

[@jasonhumphry5836]

@HistoryMysteryMan till then I'll keep watching the video for this truly awesome sounding song

[@jasonhumphry5836]

Captain Darrell is truly awesome and you can tell he's well seasoned and knows what he's talking about any one talking bad about him is purely a looser and probably not grown up take care history mystery man 😉

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Huge Lincoln fan here...I love Illnois, most parts anyway. I've spent a lot of time chasing Lincoln in Illinois over the years.@@jasonhumphry5836

[@lonewolf9390]

I find Captain Cooper's thoughts regarding what caused the Fitzgerald to sink far more believable than the Coast Guard report. He was on the radio with Captain McSorley, who was reporting damage shortly after the Fitzgerald passed near Michipicoten Island. McSorley's own words tell the tale.... “Anderson, this is the Fitzgerald. I have a fence rail down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list. I’m checking down. Will you stay by me till I get to Whitefish?”

[@jeffbranchick1516]

Amen lonewolf9390. Couldn’t agree more. The suits knew damn well what happened, yet there was no way any of them were going to admit their responsibility. No survivors, so place fault on the crew and contrive the story of the crew’s complacency.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting commentary; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@jetdriver]

@@jeffbranchick1516 ok but if the ship grounded on the shoal how is that the suits fault? That’s either the hand of God or faulty navigation on the part of the master leading to damage that was not reasonably survivable. Either way that’s the outcome the suits are looking for because it’s not their fault period.

[@TonyLasagna]

Agreed! He knows what he is talking about

[@lonewolf9390]

@@jetdriver Well, it's rather interesting that the Coast Guard did an underwater survey a year or so after the Fitzgerald sank, and very quietly updated all the navigational charts when it was discovered that Six Fathom Sholes extended about 1.5 miles further out than what the previous charts indicated.

[@LadyOaksNZ]

Quite obviously - this is a CG cover-up to save the owners having to pay out huge compensation settlements to the EF families. What other ship at the bottom has a law preventing further investigative clarification and discovery?? Thanks HMM and Captain Daryl. 💯🌺🙏❤️

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome LadyOaks! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@boydbeasley3751]

Been doing this for years. Every November 10 I listen to The wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald at the exact time when she sank to pay tribute to the 29 souls lost on that fateful night.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Man I love that! And of course, I do the same thing...thanks! HMM

[@jonvig4771]

A lot of us do the exact same 👍

[@gilliankingston8259]

When the Anderson and her current crew went through the locks and gave, I think, what is called the "Masters Salute" in remembrance of the Fitzgerald and her crew of 29 Men it gives you chills/goosbumps (such a haunting sound) - it's good that they are remembered and is only right that they do so; that was the 10th of November a few years back and the weather was similar to the weather on that fateful day.🚢🌹🕊

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

That's awesome! I didn't know that the Anderson did that. So much respect...thanks. HMM@@gilliankingston8259

[@gilliankingston8259]

​​@@HistoryMysteryManYes, I have it saved on my phone, it was 10th November, 2020 - footage from the Duluth Harbour Cam on KZbin of the Arthur M Anderson coming into Harbour and remembering/respecting the Edmund Fitgerald and her crew of 29 Men with the "Masters Salute", a fitting tribute to them🚢📢🕊🌹

[@Mr.Glidehook]

A reverent and yet somber and sober discussion of an horrific event, one that should not have happened. If not for Gordon Lightfoot I'd have never remembered it. His haunting song still plays in my head and wounds my heart. Thanks for this thoughtful and sad video. History should never forget the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...so appreciated. It certainly is a sad and haunting song, yet the song is also the reason the story is known around the world...and kept alive as a result. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@AClark-qn2kh]

Thanks for the interview, it brings back some memories… I was at home in the Soo with the power out in that storm listening to my Radio Shack VHF and came across the Coast Guard calling the Fitzgerald over and over. I was too far away to hear if there was a reply. It wasn’t until the next day we heard the news and I understood there was never a reply. RIP to the captain and crew.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Amazing story; thanks for sharing it here. This is, in part, why I make these movies...to hear all the interesting stories that come back to me. I'll be visiting the Soo in '24. Thanks for watching...HMM

[@difreighterwatcher8603]

Thanks so much for having Captain Darrell on for more interviews. He is a Treasure, a wealth of information. I could listen to his stories for hours. He hit so many salient points about the hatches and the condition of the wreckage. I believe they concocted the coadt guard story to avoid massive lawsuits. They at the time believed the wreckage would never be scrutinized, as there wasn't the technology to do so at the time. The fact that no diving is allowed is a direct effort to suppress any further evidence being discovered. There are hundreds of ships in the Great Lakes where crew are interred and diving and filming occurs often. Thanks again for sharing these interviews. Captain Darrell is a Treasure and i so appreciate him giving his time and knowledge to these videos. ❤

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Capt. Darrell is amazing for sure. Beyond his knowledge, he's a great story teller, which is a craft that few possess today. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, sir...and thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM

[@DeezNuts-xz7hy]

This is the reason they brought up the Hatch clamps ,,so they could blame worker negligence

[@LisaHouserman]

Hi WATCHER! Fancy seeing you here, LOL. I love this Capt Darrell !!

[@difreighterwatcher8603]

@@LisaHouserman captain Darrell is Wonderful glad you enjoy the videos 💖

[@lonnyjaw]

It's a shame that after all this time that all involved with this cover up can just please come clean once and for all. This isn't over yet.

[@swampghost8256]

Man I love when you share these ! I say both, I’m sticking with my original analogy. Overloaded, grounded on the shoals , took in water which is why fence rails were down and she was listing. With water in the bow when the three sisters waves lifted her stern in drove her bow straight down into the bottom which the impact broke her in half, that is why the bow is sitting upright and the stern flipped and landed upside down !

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Your analysis makes sense to me; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Stop by anytime...HMM

[@rogerozdarski2935]

Great video HMM! Keep on this story, Captain Darrell is right, there's a cover up. Keep digging on this story. There has to be someone out there that knows something or there's a paper trail. Those men on the Fitz deserve these answer on this tragic accident.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, Roger. Darrell just keeps digging up new stuff on the Fitz...like the hatch covers not fitting from all the twisting and turning. I had never even considered that. HMM

[@stevebeckerman4214]

There is no cover up.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

We may never know for sure...thanks.@@stevebeckerman4214

[@stevebeckerman4214]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Even if she was overloaded, even if she grounded, it was the weather. If there was no weather that night, no loss of the vessel.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting perspective...thanks.@@stevebeckerman4214

[@DAIadvisor]

Makes perfct sense - overloaded, badly maintained ship in a bad storm. Just a matter of time

[@gregorylyon1004]

He's exactly right. The Fitzgerald had no chance of survival. Overloaded. Fence rail down as well. That tells me that the Big Fitz was flexing way too much in the storm. The hull was already compromised. Those hatch covers were leaking like a siv. 2 blown vents tells me that she was taking in a lot of water.

[@RyanParsons]

The story of the Edmund Fitzgerald will always mesmerize me!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both brother...till the end of time. Thanks for watching, Ryan. HMM

[@purplechris9480]

Another great video, thank you!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for watching...HMM

[@WIJoe1]

On November 10th at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum the annual memorial service for the Edmund Fitzgerald will take place starting at 7 P.M. EST

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Awesome...thanks for sharing that here! HMM

[@WIJoe1]

@@HistoryMysteryMan, there be a live web cast of the memorial service. The link should be posted on the Shipwreck Museum's website on Monday of this coming week.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks! I had no idea. @@WIJoe1

[@matthewmcnulty698]

@HistoryMysteryMan do. You know if. They put. The ringing of the edmund fitzgerald bell up on KZbin

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I'll see if I can find out...thanks. HMM@@matthewmcnulty698

[@matthewsneed5752]

So cool to hear it firsthand from someone directly related to the situation and who is knowledgeable on everything. If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that when there’s a disaster like the Fitz, if there’s big money at stake, you can bet the lawyers are gonna get involved, and the story will get sorted out how ever they need it to to protect the company. It’s always a “good ol’ boys” club. Nice to get the inside scoop. 👍👍

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting thoughts Matthew; thanks for sharing them here! Stop by anytime...HMM

[@hambam7533]

history mystery man its that time of year again and your back with more fitz videos love it

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You know it! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@bowslap]

Outstanding, as always….. I do feel that so much had been suppressed in regards to what happened that day leading up to the Fitzgerald’s sinking. Having the privilege of listening to Capt. Walton and yourself conversing is something I look forward to….hoping there will be another installment come next week. Thank you once again, Don…..Chris Stewart To add, I agree that the ship is certainly a gravesite for the crew and shouldn’t be plundered….however, I also believe that the pursuit of truth has no expiration date. By all means, allow for a THOROUGH examination of the wreck site in it’s entirety with the help of modern technology, up to and including the recovery and restoration/examination of the ship’s log book)s). It HONORS the 29 men who lost their lives that night to not only find, but reveal the answers.

[@luketdrifter2100]

The wreck is too damaged for Any kind of information to be found. The evidence needed is somewhere in that debris field or buried 15 feet into the bottom

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, bowslap...super interesting commentary you've shared here. If we could explore the Fitz with the assurance that no crew members would be disturbed, I'm in. HMM

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

This is a good point luketdrifter. It makes sense that if the ship went aground it was at the part of the ship that's now disintegrated, being weakened as it must have been.

[@bowslap]

@@HistoryMysteryMan a possibility could be 3D imaging of the entirety of the wrecksite, which has been done/is in the process of being done of the wrecksite of the RMS Titanic. It would present a far greater picture of what/where, without disturbing the ship. The only invasive activity I would support would be that of procuring the ship’s log book if it still exists in the debris of the chart room.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Man I like the way you think. Thanks again...HMM@@bowslap

[@filmchick6389]

Does it matter anymore how/why the Fitz went down? I think so. The truth is always worth knowing for the lessons it teaches - and perhaps for justice to be delivered. A final dive with modern equipment and legitimate aims could be carried out with due respect given to those who lost their lives. I guess it would be very difficult however to get consensus from the families and that also matters. A fascinating discussion as always - with thanks.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting thoughts filmchick; thanks for sharing them here. HMM

[@robertayers9424]

Always interesting to have Captain Darrell and yourself sitting there hashing things out. Thanks again! We are only given the story they want put out. Wether it concerns government or big business. Greed is the cause of most disasters.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting commentary, Robert; thanks again for sharing it here. Greed and disaster seem to work hand in hand. #JohnstownFlood

[@MaddTrapper-gn8qs]

Good to see you and Captn Darrell back on watch

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Great to be back! Thanks MaddTrapper...HMM

[@Ohiotrucker1]

A video with the good captain today is a good day.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I'll buy that! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@loricharpentier1654]

It was so good to listen tò your storiesabout the. Edmund Fitzgerald, God bless you,

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for watching...HMM

[@gayprepperz6862]

The bow in American waters and the stern in Canadian waters. Wow! I love to listen to these two talk!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for watching! HMM

[@gayprepperz6862]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Well, the pleasure is mine - truly. I'm learning so much inside knowledge from the two of you. I really do appreciate the effort put into the presentations. You also help to keep the memory of this tragedy alive for everyone. It seems now that people are becoming more complacent with their confidence in modern technology, and they forget (if they ever knew) just how horrific and deadly the Witch of November can be. Not to be a pessimist, or macabre, but it seems that nature has to teach us a lesson ever so often, but the targeted audience ( the greedy corporations), are the first to forget, and the last to accept responsibility.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting stuff. Gotta wonder why we have keep learning the hard way. Thanks again...stop by anytime. HMM@@gayprepperz6862

[@spaceflight1019]

​@@HistoryMysteryManIf you haven't already done so, I highly recommend that you download the transcript from the bridge audio recorder aboard the El Faro.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Is that just a Google thing? Thanks...HMM@@spaceflight1019

[@susiepittman601]

What a wonderful, knowledgeable man.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Capt. Darrell is a rockstar! Thanks Susie...HMM

[@kswope696]

I've watched every documentary on the Fitz I think ever made. What makes sense to me that I've heard on many videos is they bottomed out, was taking on water, she was riding low with a list and took a nose dive on a trough of a wave. Makes perfect sense. The visor on the pilot house was dented in and the way it spit in 2 and spun the stern upside down. My belief is that's what happened

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I tend to agree with everything you're saying. In the end, she lost buoyancy and nose-dived for good. Thanks for watching...HMM

[@gregorylyon1004]

I've studied this boat extensively. The Fitzgerald had no chance of survival in that storm. I could write an essay on it, and all the factors that led to it's demise

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You should write and essay on it, then. So many factors to think about. Other boats survived the storm...the Anderson...why not the Fitz? Thanks for contributing to my channel. HMM@@gregorylyon1004

[@Seafarer62]

Yes, I think the ship went down in one piece and folded like an accordion when it plowed through the bottom. The bow and stern are relatively close together. Must have went down in one piece.

[@ronyantz7349]

Thanks again Gentlemen! Having me a cup of coffee and a cigar here in my mancave while I listen.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Man I love that! A cigar with coffee in a mancave. Rock on Ron! HMM

[@stynger007]

Great to see this thank you ! Could listen to Captain Darrell for days and never tire of it

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both, brother! Thanks for watching/listening...HMM

[@MissTerri207]

Thank you, gentlemen.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome MissTerri...HMM

[@oldmanonthehill8858]

You should do more videos with Capt Darrell I could listen to him talk for hours ! Great video

[@darrellwalton938]

We have 11 other videos already on You Tube. Let us know what you think!

[@oldmanonthehill8858]

@@darrellwalton938 I have watched them all several times. I really enjoy listening to you explain things about the ships. Thank you for taking the time to appear in the videos and sharing your insights always interesting.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for your support oldmanonthehill8858! HMM

[@todddickinson3262]

Thanksgiving used to be the only thing November represented to me… Now (and since I became an adult and learned about the Edmund Fitzgerald) it represents the greatest accounts ever recorded of what most likely happened to this legendary ship. The History Mystery man and Capt. Darrell have brought this captivating story to life like no one else, and I long for the gales of November to come calling, so that more tales of the greatest ship to ever sail the Great Lakes will soon follow…

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Todd...love your commentary! Thanks for sharing it here...and we certainly appreciate your support and kind words. The month of November means much more than the holiday...and thanks for pointing that out. HMM

[@RAV1953]

I have always believed what Captain Cooper (RIP) thought, as to what exactly happened. It is very interesting to hear/learn further information as told by Captain Walton. I would love to meet him & listen to his "experience & knowledge"! Thank you Sir and, Thank you HMM!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome RAV1953...thanks again. HMM

[@ajbaumgart4774]

History mystery man one thing that haunts me about the story of the mighty big Fitzgerald is how could this mighty ship founder with all hands its just a sad story but I'm so thankful you and Mr walton keep the crew and great ship alive even Mr waltons brother i always wonder to this day if that tragedy didnt happened if the Fitzgerald would still be out there with the anderson after they made repairs thank you for doing these video's

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, AJ. I really do believe the Mighty Fitz would still be out there. Like Darrell said, she was going to drydock that winter to be lengthened and for repairs. Columbia Transport still had big plans for her. The Wilfred Sykes is still in service, and she was launched before the Fitz. HMM

[@RobertSchildt-vt8yw]

I always knew that Columbia transportation company was hiding something! Great story it opened up some new doors for me!

[@RobertSchildt-vt8yw]

I read in one of the books I used to own or maybe heard that the chief engineer was worried that it wouldn't pass inspection on that final trip got it through inspection ! On Fred Shannon video Red Bergener even said him and couple other crew members slept on the fantail because they were in fear the Fitz was going to sink because the way Mcsorely had drove her and wouldn't drop anchor

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting stuff Robert...thanks. That part about sleeping on the fantail...man that's off the charts.@@RobertSchildt-vt8yw

[@rileybridgham1963]

What a wonderful and knowledgeable man, great video, keep it up and I can't wait for the next video.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Riley; we appreciate you! HMM

[@beberle9641]

Who better to cover the History and Mystery of the Edmund Fitzgerald than the History Mystery Man himself. Thanks Don and Darrell keep on seeking the truth guys. ✌️ Brian

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again Brian...good to hear from you again. HMM

[@jeffbranchick1516]

Hello Don, hope this finds you well. We find ourselves once again at the opening of November and yet another haunting anniversary of remembering the Fitz and her crew, as well as my recollections of Bruce Hudson and growing up on Burns Rd back then. I offer my highest regards for your investigative passion on this topic, it’s historic relevance and the reverent respect her memory has generated. We also lost Gordon Lightfoot, who’s ballad was certainly a major ingredient in bringing the demise of the Fitz and her crew to prominence. This is truly one of those stories that will never get old in the retelling or the imagination. It’s phenomenal that you have had the privilege to interview Capt. Darrell and receive such in depth, inside info that most certainly may not have had the chance to be heard by a wider audience. I applaud your efforts sir. Take care.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, Jeff...so glad you're back! We appreciate your kind words. I find it so interesting that you knew Bruce. If you have any ideas on how we could honor him going forward, let me know. HMM

[@jeffbranchick1516]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Much thnx for your kind reply Don. If I think of something, I’ll certainly be in touch.

[@critterscute3642]

Thanks HMM and Capt. Darrell for another great video!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're always welcome! Thanks again, critterscute3642...HMM

[@daviddaydodge8985]

These vids with Capt Darrell are awesome! Cool footage w Harry Reasoner as well. I was 7 and living right across from Fraser Shipyards in Superior WI in 75. The Fitz was pretty much all we kids talked about for the rest of the year. I remember mom calling some of her friends

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...that's a very cool memory you shared here. And thanks for watching...HMM

[@michiganman9599]

The photo shown at 4:11 is the only one that I’VE seen of the Fitz that displays her true scale, and my God was she enormous, and just to think that Superior had her way with the Fitz as if she were a plastic toy in a bathtub; wow.

[@Trinitystillmyname]

I would hope that if anyone with first hand knowledge and alive, can shed some light on the Fitzgerald's sinking. Please speak up, and let the weight of any untold information set you free. I believe the official storyline as it stands, is too perfect. I believe the truth is still out there.

[@twrecks4598]

Only a couple/few years ago my wife and I were watching lakers on the St.Clair River when the Anderson chugged right on by. I was blown away! I had assumed that the Anderson was too old to be sailing anymore and had been scrapped a long time ago. I got excited and pointed her out to my wife and told her how that was the last ship to see the Fitz ever. I've loved these lakers since I was a teen, through my decade of Navy service, and still now. So glad to see the Anderson is still with us. If anyone who reads this can help this Navy sailor get underway with a Laker, you'd have my eternal gratitude!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for your service...a Veterans Day salute for you! The Anderson lives...HMM

[@alexlindsey6446]

i have the attentiton span of a gnat....HOWEVER....I was GLUED to this conversation. Well done. Very natural and both partites engaged. Polite on both sides too...nobody trying to bully or be the alpha. This worked! Awesome.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Alex...some of the nicest compliments I've ever received on my channel...so appreciated. Helps inspire me to keep going. Great feedback! HMM

[@WilliamBolger]

Another fine interview Don, and also thanks to Darl for his time. Would sit listening to you guys at a bar all night

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Let's do it! Thanks again, William. HMM

[@chuckg6039]

Don, after watching this ....I've completely decided to visit Whitefish Bay next year! Great video. Just watched it again.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both brother. I had planned to go this year but it didn't work out. No more excuses...I'm going next year.

[@p.k.5455]

Another amazing video! Thank you so much for doing these! Those men should NEVER be forgotten!!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks. We are honored to honor the men of the Mighty Fitz. HMM

[@p.k.5455]

@HistoryMysteryMan you both do it so well, it gives us the chance to honor them with you guys as well! God Bless you both!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thank you so much! HMM@@p.k.5455

[@DavidWilliams-tr1yx]

I was only 10 when the Fitz went down but it has intrigued me to this day. Captain Cooper has made more sense to me than other reports.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

The Mighty Fitz going down gets etched in our memories forever. Thanks David...HMM

[@gregorylyon1004]

That boat had no chance of survival in that storm. I could write an essay on it. And even if it didn't hit bottom on six fathom shoal, it still had no chance

[@michaelnault5905]

Great interview and video!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Michael...so appreciated. HMM

[@robbierussell9536]

I still remember when it happened..we were snowed in west Virginia and we heard it on the radio ..so sad.. I drove truck and we would haul cinders, coal, road salt from port Clinton to Cleveland..so bad God bless

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

It's like a JFK moment...you remember what you were doing when it happened. Thanks...HMM

[@alcapone7319]

I concur with Capt. Dudley J. Paquette: " I don't know what you call it, but the word that still comes to my mind 25 years after that ship sank is: Negligence!" AB Unl -Wheelsman (ret)

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. A wheelsman? I'll be you have some great stories to share! HMM

[@alcapone7319]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Yes! Best job in the World! Great Freedom with some Great People!

[@joerivers1768]

I was a GLMA Engine Cadet sailing on the Philip R Clarke in 1976. A Wheelsman I knew on the Clarke was in the wheelhouse on the Anderson when the Fitz went down. He told me the last thing he heard on the radio from the Fits was “My God, that’s the biggest one I’ve ever seen…”. Take that any way you want, but I knew how I took it 47 years ago sailing on another AAA like the Fitz.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Whoa! Now that's super interesting! Thanks for sharing that here...HMM

[@deanmcpherson2597]

If you are slowly sinking and sitting lower in the water then all the waves would appear gigantic. She bottomed out and covered it up so the families couldn't sue Columbia for the loss.

[@TheJonathanNewton]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Not only are the two forward hatches smashed in, lying inside the hull. There’s this whatever-you-call-it, I suppose it’s a sun screen, a kind of a rim sticking out all the way around the windows of the pilot house, like the rim of a baseball cap, if you know what I mean? That thingy has been smashed straight down too, as if it had been hit by a gigantic sledgehammer, to the point where it’s partly covering the wheelhouse windows. Problem is, it’s evenly smashed down on all sides, not just on one. It would take some formidable force to even bend that whatever-it’s-called rim slightly; I’m writing this fresh out of trying to bend and shape a piece of 2mm sheet metal for a project I’m working on, and it didn’t go well at all. Having the whole lot go straight downwards in one go - you’d think someone dumped half of Lake Michigan over that ship. It MUST have been a rogue wave of some sort. A very, very rogue wave indeed.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting commentary Jonathan; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. I believe the rim around the pilot house was bent when the Fitz crashed into the bottom of Lake Superior...estimated to be traveling at 35-40mph when she landed. That would do great damage, in terms of buckling, to a ship that size. I believe a rogue wave sent her to the bottom, but not before the ship had lost most of her buoyancy from taking on too much water in the preceding hours. HMM@@TheJonathanNewton

[@TheJonathanNewton]

@@HistoryMysteryMan The rim wouldn’t buckle like that even if the Fitz had hit the bottom at the speed of light. Not only doesn’t metal behave like that, but the inertia from the water and the cushioning effect from the silt and steel would have prevented the rim from collapsing all the way down. See, for the rim to have collapsed because of the impact, such an impact would have to have been strong and sudden enough for the weight of the rim plus its downward momentum plus the torque from the bending movement plus the opposing force of the impact to have been larger than the strength of the metal plus the opposing force of the water. Those would have been the only forces involved. Moreover, it would have been violent enough to keep bending the rim as far as it could physically deform, as is the case here. In other words, the ship must have come to a complete stop with an almighty force in less than a fraction of a second. A long, slim object such as a deck crane would have produced enough weight and torque to have it slice through the water and collapse under such circumstances, but with a short and wide rim like this, any torque would be practically negligible. As for weight being larger than structural strength, well, the rim would have needed to be made from lead or something like that! In addition, striking the bottom silt would have cushioned the impact, as well as the rest of the steel hull as it would have crumbled - just like the crumble zones of a motor car will soften the crash forces for anyone traveling in it - before the collision forces had been transfered up the hull to this rim with such overwhelming force. The whole pilot house would have caved in sooner than the rim giving way on its own. The Fitz would not have come to a complete sudden stop, but would have had its downward speed slowed for a second or so. And yet here it is, the rim hanging completely vertical and flush with the windows like dead flowers. Only a force pressing onto it from the top down, a force stronger than the metal, water resistance, and any other opposing force, and which kept on pressing and pressing without stopping, could have bent it like that. And then we haven’t even touched on the two forward hatches.

[@bigpower491]

Another great vid from you guys. I commented in the first part of this 2023 series on the book with Capt Paquettes perspective. A very good read into that night, one that gives a pretty good detail of what was going on weather wise November 10 1975. The name of the book is 'The Night The Fitz Went Down", by Hugh E. Bishop. I highly recommend it. The Sykes loaded next to the Fitz that day, and they watched her head out the Superior entrance on the final voyage. I belive the Sykes departed a couple hours later. She actually anchored in Thunder Bay the first part of the storm. Paquette was the weatherman of the Inland fleet, and knew what he waa going to be up against. My only add to that was he himself under estimated the intensity and duration. Again, definitely a good read if youre interested in the Edmund Fitzgerald. Thanks again for another fantastic vid from you and the Captain

[@darrellwalton938]

Our video from two days ago, "Season 3" gives a lot of info of the "Sykes" and her Captain. It's a great video!

[@bigpower491]

Yes it is a great video, you guys always do an excellent job. As you both mentioned Capt Paquette in the videos, I thought I would post the book title if your viewers were interested in checking out his account of that night. They were hearing parts of conversations between Cooper and McSorely throughout that voyage over the radio, and it is quite interesting some of the opinions he puts forth. My mom's cousin probably knew your dad, as he spent a lot of time on the Reserve in the 70s

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to check it out! HMM

[@davidjames7382]

I remember growing up South of Toledo ( born in 1970). My dads cousin, a Marine who served in Vietnam, had a 35 ft boat docked at Bayview Yacht Club. I remember all our families cruising by the lake freighters. They were huge. The summer of 1975, we were all on his boat when we cruised by one of the biggest lake freighters heading out of Toledo. I cant remember exactly what was said ( i was only five yrs old)..i swear my dads cousin said it was the "Fritz". He had a signed book named "The Gales of November " ...i dont remember the author or what ever happened to the book. Dads cousin passed away back in 2018 down in Fort Myers Florida. To this day, i dont know if it was the Fritz we passed. All i remember he saying it was the biggest lake freighter on the Great Lakes.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Wow...super cool stories, David! Thanks for sharing them here. It's amazing how enormous the Lake Freighters are, especially when you're staring up at them from a much smaller boat. In regards to any port, the Mighty Fitz spent more time in Toledo than anywhere else, so it's very likely you were looking at the infamous "Toledo Express". Thanks for watching! HMM

[@davidjames7382]

@HistoryMysteryMan your welcome. I enjoy your history and when you speak with the former Captain on your podcasts. I will have to ask family if they still have the pictures they had taken when we were out on my cousins boat. I'm sure back in the day, they took plenty of pics. What's really ironic, the Fitzgerald sank on the Marine Corps birthday. The cousin inspired me to go into the Marines after I was in college in Toledo ( Comtech). My dads cousin worked for GE as a engineer in Toledo ( I think for 25+ years) before they were bought out. I remember him teaching me how to navigate his boat ( when I reached my early teens), to Boblo Island and Cedar Point. Great memories.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, David. I'm Toledo born and bred...love my hometown. If you come up with any pics, I'd love to see them! @@davidjames7382

[@davidjames7382]

@@HistoryMysteryMan can I say I used to work at Tony Packos on Front Street? My hometown was Rossford. My grandfather worked for LOF for 30 years.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Awesome! I'm a frequent flyer at Tony Packos on Front Street...thanks! HMM@@davidjames7382

[@danielmcfadden1]

Some amazing thoughts and points of view, I always enjoy listening to your videos, thank you fellas!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're always welcome Daniel...thanks again! HMM

[@darrylphillips1215]

May all the crew of the Edmond Fritzgerald rest in peace. God bless them all.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I second that prayer...thanks Darryl. HMM

[@JonnyJetson754]

Thanks much 4 these videos great stuff

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

If I were a family member, I'd want more answers. I like the idea of getting the log book. There's enough stories of inconsistencies to peak interest. Much respect to all and much reverence to all men keeping this going. Thank you for recording this for all time.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@thevinylrevolution]

I could listen to y’all talk all day. You could do a hundred more episodes and not keep the fascination over the Fitz (and other wrecks!) sated. Thank you for keeping us thinking outside of the box on the official story.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're always welcome...thanks for your support! HMM

[@gregorylyon1004]

Their is no mystery on the Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm. That boat hit bottom so hard that it's buried around 20 feet into the lake bottom

[@redball4093]

Excellent history perspective. Thank you.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...so appreciated. HMM

[@jodyvillalobos357]

What a wealth of knowledge Captain Darrell is! Thanks for posting HMM

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Jody...thanks! HMM

[@jodyvillalobos357]

@@HistoryMysteryMan You're very welcome, as always sir!

[@husqv5147]

Love these vids! Great work guy's, keep 'em coming!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You got it! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@Dayjob351]

I lived in Duluth MN and i can tell you when Lake Michigan is angry it is a sight. And it can change attitude in less than an hour.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I'm coming to Duluth in 2024...Superior too...can't wait! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@Dayjob351]

I watched a wave come to shore one February.....it created and froze in one second. I've never seen anything like that....a wave froze in place.

[@Dayjob351]

Another thing I learned

[@Dayjob351]

During October there are 40,000 raptors per acre in Duluth. The lake is so cold there is no heat from the water so the birds all migrated around the lake which leads to Duluth.....

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting stuff on the raptors...thanks for sharing that.@@Dayjob351

[@patreilly1458]

The company and McSorley applied to the Coast Guard to increase the loading of the FG in the November part of the season. The original November loading was lighter to give the FG more free board for the November storms on the lakes. The company and McSorley wanted to carry more cargo for an increase in the yearly profits. As for the railing and the vent covers they were removed and damaged about the same area where the spare propeller was stored between the hatch covers on the deck. That propeller could have broken loose when a large wave slammed into the deck and thrown it over the side. That season was near an end and the FG was supposed to go into dry dock for the winter to reinforce the hull with a bunch of additional support beams and bulk head stiffeners. There was a picture of all of that steel sitting in the ship yard waiting for the FG and her sister ship to be modified. FG never made it but her sister ship the Auther B Homer was modified.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting commentary and info. I've heard that the steel they were going to outfit the Fitz with is still out there...at least some of it. This would be a story in itself...thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@chuckg6039]

I ran across a really good picture yesterday of the Fitz showing her radar mast. It appeared so very massive and tall. By todays standards it really looked out of proportion. Seemingly very vulnerable and almost rickety. Guess that was the way of the times. I can easily understand how it could have been damaged and even toppled. Note. The picture might have been much earlier than 1975. ...taken at a time when radar structures/antennas were much bulkier.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Very cool Chuck. Any chance you can email me that photo? Thanks! HMM

[@chuckg6039]

Don, the picture I'm referring to is the main one on the wiki page for the Fitz. It was taken in 1971. The radar is absolutely huge!

[@paulhoffman778]

You guys are great 👍 so much info . Love how you mentioned the fence rail. I've thought that myself was bending and heaving. The structural integrity being compromised is hint enough that the bottom had damage.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Paul; your commentary makes sense to me...thanks for sharing it here. HMM

[@PhatSlicks]

Great stuff! Always good to hear from Captain Walton! It's too bad you can't time travel back and get a birds eye view, such as a drone camera, and see what truly happened to Big Fitz as well as the Bradley and Morrell. Little less of a mystery about what happened to the latter two, but still.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting. And...a drone with video coverage would be the only thing to solve it...something we'll never have. Thanks for watching. HMM

[@gentjim5007]

Like many other shipwrecks from the past, it was a combination of circumstances, a perfect storm if you will, that caused this tragedy. An aging ship, economic forces, and a tremendous storm, all were factors in this story. Besides the shipping part of this story, the unique weather that occured that day, and in other years around November 10th and 11th is a fascinating history lesson. Many weather records for barometric pressure changes, temperature changes, and precipitation have occured on those dates.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Makes sense to me...in addition to the terrible storm, all things considered, it became the "perfect storm". Thanks for writing in...HMM

[@mikeherren5604]

Great job boys enjoy the new information and great job at the end honoring all those men who perished

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Mike...so appreciated. HMM

[@johnking1381]

Hello again gentlemen, it's that time again. In my humble opinion this set of videos have rapidly become the most comprehensive investigation into the Fitz tragedy on KZbin, or anywhere else for that matter. Thankyou both for your efforts, and for sharing them with us all. Top shelf.💪

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks John...so appreciated! HMM

[@p.k.5455]

Money over men, seems to be the company motto at that time!

[@yankeeclipper4326]

Sadly, it still is

[@p.k.5455]

@@yankeeclipper4326 doesn't surprise me!

[@kevinsheldon9254]

Thanks, Captain, I was one of the divers who removed the bell, on what I believe was the last expedition,, always get asked, always wondering myself what went on that night. Thank you sir.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're very welcome Kevin; thanks for contributing your thoughts to my channel. Would you be agreeable to a short video chat about your experience? My email is [e-mail]. I would be grateful...HMM

[@MacGregor.]

29 legends. Still as relevant today.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Absolutely. Thanks again, MacGregor...HMM

[@MacGregor.]

@@HistoryMysteryMan yes Sir. Thank you.

[@craighanks429]

Sorry shooting my mouth off so much but I myself was in the Navy stationed at Naval Hospital in Bethesda Maryland when the Fitz went down, I remember it very well. Guess reason why my comments so visual is because I was trained in my 2nd hitch as a Bio-Medical photographer & was a Corpsman in Vietnam, so my memories & imagination are very visual. The Fitzgerald’s story is so riveting, compelling, along with the stories of the crewmen, their history’s, mixed with the Arthur M. Anderson & captain Bernie Cooper, their crewmen & experiences that night plus everyone else, searchers, company people, the Coast Guard. This would make one HELLUVA movie. (With the family’s permissions of course). Then there’s Gordon Lightfoot’s song. Drama, tragedy, action. The steward replacing the regular cook, Captain McSorely’s last trip before retiring, they all had stories.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're always welcome to share your thoughts and opinions here; I appreciate it. Yes...so many stories with the Fitz. One of my favorite stories is when I finally found deckhand Bruce Hudson's restored '74 Dodge Challenger...that's one of my favorites. I made two movies about it...and they're available further down. And yes, we'd all love to see a movie on the Mighty Fitz but, because we don't know what happened, how would the movie end? Thank you for your service in the Navy and in Vietnam; I admire that greatly. Hell...you'd be a great interview yourself, if you might be interested...thanks. HMM

[@jetdriver]

History Mystery Man you and I discussed this a bit the comment thread of a video you made on this in what I’d call season one. My comment dates to Nov 2021. I that thread I argued for the hatch cover failure theory based on the NTSB report. But let’s examine this another way. If we accept that there are forces seeking to cover up what happened to the Fitz we have to ask why. The answer of course is that they bear liability for her loss. Of course if your the corporate type it’s far easier to cover up any hint you might be liable even if your not. But if they think they are liable the question is of course why. Which returns me to theories as to why she was lost. If she grounds in shoal water and that grounding ultimately led to her loss then there is little risk of her owners or other interested powers in the Great Lakes being held to account. On the other hand if the reason for her loss was primarily attributable to hatch covers that were not water tight that’s a different story. Because all that water coming over the deck is down flooding into her holds and being absorbed by her cargo leading to her riding lower and lower in the water. That she was overloaded and suffering from structural issues as was covered in the video only made her hatch seals worse. This goes on with the Fitz getting lower and lower in the water until finally she is boarded by a large wave that causes hydrostatic failure of her forward hatch covers (the possibility of which was firmly established in the NTSB report) and the sudden rush of water into the forward holds drives her down by the head. When the bow impacts the bottom the shock causes structural failure leading to the separation of the stern and the wreck as we know it today. If we accept that scenario as true then the ships owners and others are indeed liable for her loss. Liable because they allowed her to be dangerously overloaded in the name of profit. Liable because they knew full well her hatch covers were not watertight and would not withstand a boarding sea. Liable because her design allowed her to flex excessively and had too little subdivision to deal with flooding. Don’t forget too in this scenario the Coast Guard and other marine certification authorities also come off poorly because they allowed a ship to be designed and maintained in a fashion that was guaranteed to result in her not being seaworthy. Finally bear in mind that simple structural failure doesn’t account for her loss. That has happened numerous times before both on the Great Lakes and at sea. And in those cases we have chunks of ship that remain afloat for a period of time sometimes hours. Structural failure doesn’t generally lead to the sort of near instant sinking that was suffered by the Fitz.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

But if she was breaking in two...that would equate to a major structural failure in my mind which could result in immediate sinking. And...she only had three cargo holds separated by screen bulkheads. She was weak in that regard and rode to death for decades. Thanks for sharing your thoughts...I appreciate all the time you put into your analysis...and it does have me thinking newly as a result of your analysis. Excellent commentary...HMM

[@jetdriver]

@@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for responding. My issue with a massive structural failure is that when that happens the sinking is usually slow enough to get a distress call out. Also if she broke in two on the surface her wreck would look different. The bow looks very much like a ship that went down by the head and impacted the bottom. It doesn’t look like a ship that broke in two on the surface which would lead to her sinking from the middle first. Also if she broke in two and flooded from the middle I’d expect a pile of ore on the bottom as both ends spit out their cargos. Her hatch covers also would not likely have imploded as the air pressure under them as the ship flooded would have supported them. The more I come back to this the more ai find that the one majorly theory about her loss that doesn’t have major problems is the one advocated by the NTSB.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Again...super interesting. Now you have me thinking, re-evaluating, etc. Thanks for your thoughts on the Fitz.@@jetdriver

[@brianlangum6253]

@@jetdriver There is video shot from a Coast Guard helocopter, (in radio contact with the bridge of a very large ocean going frieghter), as it hits a large wave. The ship was intact as the bow hit the wave then instead of riding up, it dove into it. The screams of the crew can be heard in the video as the ship is consumed in seconds by the ocean, the entire crew died. I tried to find a link to this incident but unfortuately no luck.

[@jetdriver]

@@brianlangum6253 I’ve heard of this story and while I don’t remember the name of the ship it was included at the time. I’ve been forced to decide it’s false. The ship listed in the original telling of the story didn’t sink as described nor can I find a record a similar sinking. Not to mention that video of such an incident would doubtless be all over the internet and yet it doesn’t exist. That being said such a scenario if it was true would serve to basically support the NTSBs conclusion as to how the ship was lost.

[@Johnny53kgb-nsa]

I've heard from this guy on video before and respect his view, along with Capt. Cooper. Rip.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Johnny...appreciate your thoughts. HMM

[@RetiredSailor60]

Tomorrow, November 10th, 2023 marks 48 years since the Fitzgerald's sinking. RIP Shipmates from a retired Navy Sailor ....

[@858Bill]

My stepfather worked on the boats as a cook for many years.....including the Fitz.... I've been aboard her a few times myself.... We knew many of the men personally...... Rest in Peace.... Michael Armagost- 37- Third Mate- Iron River, Wisconsin Fred Beetcher- 56- Porter- Superior, Wisconsin Thomas Bentsen- 23- Oiler- St. Joseph, Michigan Edward Bindon -47- First Asst. Engineer- Fairport Harbor, Ohio Thomas Borgeson -41- Maintenance Man- Duluth, Minnesota Oliver Champeau- 41-Third Asst. Engineer- Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Nolan Church -55 -Porter -Silver Bay, Minnesota Ransom Cundy- 53- Watchman- Superior, Wisconsin Thomas Edwards-50- Second Asst. Engineer- Oregon, Ohio Russell Haskell -40- Second Asst. Engineer- Millbury, Ohio George Holl -60- Chief Engineer- Cabot, Pennsylvania Bruce Hudson- 22- Deck Hand -North Olmsted, Ohio Allen Kalmon -43- Second Cook- Washburn, Wisconsin Gordon MacLellan- 30- Wiper- Clearwater, Florida Joseph Mazes- 59- Special Maintenance Man -Ashland, Wisconsin John McCarthy -62-First Mate -Bay Village, Ohio Ernest McSorley -63 -Captain -Toledo, Ohio Eugene O'Brien- 50- Wheelsman -Toledo, Ohio Karl Peckol -20- Watchman -Ashtabula, Ohio John Poviach -59- Wheelsman- Bradenton, Florida James Pratt -44- Second Mate- Lakewood, Ohio Robert Rafferty -62 -Steward -Toledo, Ohio Paul Riippa -22 -Deck Hand -Ashtabula, Ohio John Simmons -63 -Wheelsman -Ashland, Wisconsin William Spengler -59- Watchman- Toledo, Ohio Mark Thomas -21- Deck Hand- Richmond Heights, Ohio Ralph Walton -58- Oiler- Fremont, Ohio David Weiss -22 -Cadet -Agoura, California Blaine Wilhelm -52- Oiler- Moquah, Wisconsin

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Wow! Thanks for your memorial list...sooo grateful. Do you have any first-hand memories of the Fitz? Is your stepfather still alive? HMM

[@858Bill]

@@HistoryMysteryMan I was a young teen...the only things I can really recall was briefly meeting Capt McSorley and knowing Al Kalmon the 2nd cook.....That's what Pops was....a cook..... Pops served on several boats for Columbia...including the Fitz.....the Reserve...and a few others I can't recall.... I remember he had a menu from the Fitz for Thanksgiving 1974....that was a king's feast... Pops passed away a few years ago.... For what it's worth for your purposes....Pops thought the Fitz might've scraped a hole in the bottom on her way out of port...with the rough seas masking the taking on water and slowly getting lower in the water.... He did have a colimn for a little bit called Tales from the Great lakes by George Yaworski and in ine of those he critized McSorley for his "press on regardless" attitude.....

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting! I suppose you were probably too young to remember your meeting with Capt. McSorley? I've always wondered what his voice sounded like...and to this day I wonder if there are recorded radio transmissions of his voice via the the USCG or some other entity. Anything you remember about Kalmon? Thanks...HMM@@858Bill

[@858Bill]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Sorry can't help you much there....the McSorley meeting was just in passing....and the only thing my memory tells me about Kalmon was the impression of a friendly somewhat bubbly personality.... Mom and Pops knew these folks a lot more....I was just there for brief visits when they put in to Cleveland....although I did take an overnight voyage with Pops on one of the vessels in my early 29s from Ashtabula to I think Sault St Marie to retrieve some luggage to then Greyhound home....couldn't tell you what boat it was....

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting...thanks for sharing your stories...HMM@@858Bill

[@kevinj2412]

I remember reading something about since the water was so high they had it loaded down 3ft deeper in the water than what it usually sat that time of year. If that is true, it seems to me they were just inviting disaster.

[@mustangmike4078]

Like Jim Cameron did with the Titanic, a group needs to be assembled of Fitz experts to come to a consensus conclusion on many of the unanswered questions that still persist. The 50th anniversary is coming up so the the law that prohibits diving on a wreck with loss of life will have lapsed. A coalition of different Fitz experts could dive the wreck in subs or with ROVs and answer so many questions. Possibly crowd funded. I know I'd donate.

[@merriame9487]

Ohh I'd donate too for sure

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I would also donate to that cause, but I ain't going down on a sub! I just don't have the stones for that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@annanardo2358]

A very Interesting and more believable account of the sinking. The company didn't want anyone diving on it because they were afraid they would be sued when more info was leaked. A measly $ 600.00 to surviving family members was pittence. That company should look to reimburse them still (that is, if the company is still in bus.)

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Columbia Transportation is no longer in the Great Lakes shipping business...thanks. HMM

[@gregorylyon1004]

I agree with you. I have studied this boat extensively. The Fitzgerald had no chance of survival. I can list about 10 factors that sent it to the bottom with no distress call all hands

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Yeah...we should chat sometime about our theories. Thanks again, Gregory...HMM

[@Peter.w]

Love it thanks again HMM and Capt Darryl!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Peter; thanks for watching. HMM

[@amyweeklynewsreport6787]

That just breaks my heart All those men trapped in a watery grave😢 I understand that sailors get buried at sea but to me that is the scariest thing on earth being trapped in water even after death. My ex-husband said when we die we'll be cremated and we'll have our ashes sprinkled in the ocean and I said no because that terrified me. Being trapped in hundreds of feet of darkness I feel so bad for the families that never got the truth. I absolutely love the song The Edmund Fitzgerald It tells the story short and to the point rest in peace men and may you rest in the arms of Jesus❤❤

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Amy...your well-presented comments are appreciated. Thanks for watching...and mostly, for remembering the men on the Mighty Fitz. HMM

[@shawndavis8438]

That's crazy that the guy couldn't talk about it. It's like they knew that something was wrong with the Fitzgerald, and they were covering their butt. Like I said on the other video, there was a guy named Tugboat Jim who knew Ronnie Roman, who was on the Anderson the night the Fitzgerald sank, and he talked about how the Fitzgerald had an emergency repair job in Sturgeon Bay right before this happened. I think the welds didn't hold up, and the keel had a stress fracture, which lead to the listing and eventual sinking. Just look at the lifeboat that was recovered. It was all shredded. It goes to show how powerful Lake Superior truly is during the gales of November

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Love to find someone who was on the Anderson that night. HMM

[@Old_Sailor85]

Sailed The Great Lakes in the late 70's and early 80's. Worked for Columbia Transportation. We also studied the Fitz in school (Maritime Academy). No definitive result of the investigation, but I personally believe this theory. She broke deep from hitting the shoal.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts...HMM

[@TheChadSmithPodcast]

Amazing series! This is turning you into an investigative journalist! There's gotta be something to that engineer of the Anderson being restricted from talking. Did he sign an NDA? And if he did, why?? Who made him sign it? Very interesting 🤔 great job!

[@yankeeclipper4326]

He was probably offered some cash to sign an NDA and warned about the legal & financial ramifications of breaching that NDA

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks sir...we appreciate your support. HMM

[@adrianfernandonoya5196]

Interesting video.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, Adrian...HMM

[@HarleyCat54]

I have been completely engrossed in this story since the ship went down in 1975. I was only 21 years old, the same age as some of those sailors. Truly enjoy your documentaries about the Fitz. I guess we will never know what really happened. May they rest in peace. God bless....

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...I'm with you on being engrossed with the Fitz. I never want to sound like I know what actually happened, but I'm eager to keep their memories alive. Thanks for checking out my video on the Mighty Fitz! Curious...do you think anyone would have an interest in seeing the inside of Capt. McSorley's home? I went inside a couple days ago and did some video. HMM

[@DogFish-NZ]

as a kiwi (from New Zealand) I'm still amazed of just a fresh water lake, that big ! we can drive to the opposite side of the country and see two different oceans within hours but it seems crazy to me that these ships are on lakes!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Great to hear from you...all the way from NZ! The Great Lakes are amazing! HMM

[@jefflevoir6127]

The bottoming out theory has always been my guess. All of the facts add up to it. It’s nice to see someone explain all of this in detail. Plus the added facts that the Coast Guard NEVER SEEMED TO MENTION. Everyone knew that their theory about the hatch covers was BS. But what do seasoned sailors and Captain’s know ??!! The supposed investigative panel at the time simply wanted to be done with it. Thank You for a great video. I also pray that they leave their gravesite alone now.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Jeff...so appreciated. I suspect the Mighty Fitz and crew will remain undisturbed, even as bad as we want answers. HMM

[@TheDetroitSlayer]

I had an uncle that claimed he was the 30th crew member on the Fitz, and was on it just before it went down. He says he partied alittle too much the night before at the locks in the Soo and missed the boat when it left the next day, bringing it to 29 members. The whole family recounted it, but i cannot find any collaboration of facts.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Wow...now that's a fascinating story. Hope you can get to the bottom of it. It'd be worth covering here. Thanks for watching...HMM

[@markwinnicki8802]

hi don today Marks the 48th year of the fitz sinking and the 29 passing Say a prayer and they Will always be remembered and nevera forgitton sail te men Sail always bring us Home safely lord to our loved ones and to the ships sailing on this day remember all those who have fallen and perished on these lakes and as long as we all remember them they all are still Alice and sailing and a special thank You to those delivering what we need and must have For our everyday lifes may god bless and keep You all safe and sound amen and thank You Don For keeping them all Alive and remembering and thank You For the great videos your a special person to be commended For such a great Chanel and a great human being and a special thank You to capt darrell Walton keep him and his family safe as well You both are a National monumental treasure of información wealth of knowledge and i thank You both For your years of service to our country and god bless You always amen

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

10-4...got that fixed. Thanks for your sharing your thoughts here; I appreciate the way you put it all out there. Thanks again, Mark. HMM

[@garygwinn231]

Great video, very interesting I’ve seen all the Fitzgerald videos with Captain Darrell I have a suggestion, give him a model of the ship next time you interview him. It would be cool to see him talk about it using a model to demonstrate. Thank you 👍

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Gary...I'd like to get my hands on a model of the Mighty Fitz for that very reason. HMM

[@hugechimp]

LOVE CAPT. DARRELL

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Gotta love Capt. Darrell! HMM

[@williamburroughs2273]

So why would they still be concerned about liability if Colombia Transportation is long gone? I think it's pretty obvious why they're still worried about liability, and IMO it has nothing do with a shipping company (and it never did). The Coast Guard's report on the Fitz magically absolved all related parties of any liability - yet who was responsible for setting the load lines on the Fitz and who was responsible for the antiquated charts that showed the shoal at Caribou Island being much smaller than it actually was? They weren't protecting the shipping company - they were protecting the Coast Guard. And maybe that's why they don't want anybody diving on the Fitz, because the upside-down stern plainly shows patent evidence of bottoming out at Caribou? Everything from that night indicates that the Fitz indeed bottomed out at Caribou.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Good questions...wish I could answer them. And remember, there is a huge center section of the ship that is completely disintegrated when it broke in two. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM

[@Drew_ku97]

Does anyone happen to know the celtic song at the beginning of the video?Litterally gave me chills. Good video btw

[@Peter.w]

I'd love a download of it

[@Drew_ku97]

@@Peter.w as would would I

[@scottburns2600]

Ive said it a million times and I'll say it again. The Fitzgerald was going down by the head, slowly since the mid afternoon when it was still daylight. The crew reported the fence rail down around this time, at which the keel buckled and caused the major hogging exposing the forward 3rd of the hull bottom to the open sea. It was a structural failure. It was wounded at this point. If somehow any hatches caved it, it would've been near the forward end of the ship, hence the bow slowly going down. Don’t you think the pilothouse crew would've noticed a 65×11 hatch cover missing? I mean they noticed the fence rail and tank vent damage? You all have to stop believing the decades old ruse by the Coastguard report. Of course they needed an excuse to blame the crew; after all, they are the one's who signed off on their last safety inspection!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting commentary! Thanks for sharing it here. You ask hard questions that deserve answers. I only wish I had them. Thanks Scott...so appreciated. HMM

[@darrellwalton938]

They didn't say the hatch cover was missing. When the "Three Sisters Waves" hit her, that is when the I'll fitting hatch cover gave way. To many Kestner clamps were not even damaged, because they couldn't "Dog" them down. Thanks for watching.

[@scottlewisparsons9551]

Thank you for a very interesting and informative video. The secrecy is definitely covering things up. All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Scott! All the way from Sidney, Australia too! I really appreciate you checking in. The idea of living in Australia seems appealing to me. It seems like, for the most part, your beautiful country is out of harm's way from the rest of the world's problems. Stop by anytime...HMM

[@scottlewisparsons9551]

@@HistoryMysteryMan thank you. I am a kiwi who moved here in 1988, I became an Aussie citizen about twenty years ago. It’s a great country. I first heard of the Edmond Fitzgerald when I heard the Gordon Lightfoot song and have been interested in it ever since. Your video digs deeper than any other information I have come across. Would love to get to Canada one day. I actually saw Gordon Lightfoot in concert in London about 1979.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Wow...super cool. I saw Lightfoot at the University of Toledo right after his Edmund Fitzgerald song was released. Thanks for checking in...stop by anytime. HMM@@scottlewisparsons9551

[@chuckg6039]

​@@HistoryMysteryManThat's so cool Don. Bet you'll never forget that memory.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Nope...it's burned on my mind till the end of time.@@chuckg6039

[@jonl8539]

A very good friend of mine passed away 10 years ago he was a chief engineer on the boats. He had opinions on the Fitzgerald , most of it was that they had welded a narrow steel reinforcement to the ship the full length of the hull and it was supposed to increase the capacity. I have no idea if he was correct but my great uncle died on that ship

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

That's super interesting...I'll have to dig into that...thanks! HMM

[@AvengerII]

My question is how would you even get into the Fitzgerald wreck to look for the logbook?!? It seems like it would take a diver with special-mix scuba tank to do that! This was accomplished by 2 guys within a year of the last research expedition when they found the body beside the bow section. They were risking their lives, barely spent more than 10 minutes at the bow section. The whole dive took them more than 3 hours because of the decompression they had to do on the way back to the surface. Those hard suits they used to remove the original ship's bell in 1995 were awful bulky and I don't know that they COULD get through the door of the pilot house wearing one of those suits! Scuba gear/special mix tanks or a small ROV with manipulators might be the only way to do it. Where would the logbook even be at this point? It could have been pushed far back into the bow section by the storm. This is getting grisly... There's almost no doubt there are bodies deeper there. I've read stories/rumors about them seeing more on the wreck than they've told the public. Forget about the state rooms -- the pilot house is spooky enough! Granted, I think about half the Fitzgerald stories I've read at this point belong in the real of urban myth or ghost stories. Yes, I've heard a few ghost stories involving the Fitzgerald and sightings at White Fish after the shipwreck. ** Judging by the last publicly available sonar scan image of the Fitzgerald (2004/2005?), that ship has deteriorated quite a bit since 1995. The upper cargo deck behind the pilot house has collapsed and is resting on the keel now. The hull walls (of the bow) have peeled outward. You could easily see these details even from that low-rez sonar scan. If an answer is to be found, let alone the logbook, it has to be done soon.... or it may be too late already. That sonar image was taken in 2004/2005. The ship has undoubtedly deteriorated even more.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here. For the people who dove on the Fitz...they have peered directly into the pilot house and have no doubt seen images that they're not talking about, or not at privilege to talk about. So many unanswered questions. Anyway, you offer some very interesting info here and thank you kindly for your thought-provoking thoughts. HMM

[@AvengerII]

@@HistoryMysteryMan The ghost story thing... what HAVE people said about sightings of the Fitz on the waters and in White Fish Bay after the sinking?

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Not sure. Do you know of any sitings of the Fitz in White Fish?@@AvengerII

[@AvengerII]

@@HistoryMysteryMan I've heard a generic description or two. The most common story seems to be a sighting by another freighter/ore carrier on the Great Lakes (Superior?) about 1985, 10 years after the Fitz's sinking. This ghost ship sighting specifically mentions that the name "Edmund Fitzgerald" was seen on her hull. The SPECIFIC story I read on Reddit (yes, yes, take this with a grain of salt!) is someone relating a story of a friend with another friend sitting in a car in a park across the canal zone in White Fish. They were drinking, of course. What lends credibility to these two fellows is that they both saw a LARGE ore carrier standing still several hundred feet away from them in the bay. They thought it was weird because it was in the way of traffic; it was in a VERY dangerous place to stay anchored. They got a closer look at this ship and realized it was the Edmund Fitzgerald! Whether they saw the name of the ship or not, I have no idea. I know that The guys who were drinking in that park (this sighting probably happened in the last 30 years; there no details related to WHEN this ghost sighting happened) got the hell out of that park when they realized they were looking at a ghost ship! Supposedly, there have been other sightings like that locally around White Fish... I have no vested interests in this. I'm more agnostic leaning towards belief that some people have what you'd call paranormal experiences. I've experienced weird things, myself, but I've never seen a ghost. I'm skeptical but I'm NOT going to call people liars when it's obvious they have experienced something.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

This is super interesting...I had never considered the idea of a possible ghost ship. Thanks again for sharing your stories...keep 'em comin...HMM@@AvengerII