SIZE ISN'T EVERYTHING (...rarely used and out of tune)

Visiting the tiny organ at the tiny church of St Peter Ad Vincula, Thornaby-on-Tees, UK
1 Manual Tracker Action built by 'Church & Company' Organ Builders of Northumberland, UK.
History & Specification: www.npor.org.u...
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[@PaulRitchie-sy5og]

Nice to find this video today. I was involved in the design and build of this organ. It was commissioned for a concert hall in Tehran but was never delivered due to the revolution there. It was placed in St James R.C. Church in Coxlodge until the church closed and then relocated to St Peter ad Vincula. About four years ago I played it for a Sunday service, the first person to play it for some time.

[@PaulRitchie-sy5og]

I should also point out that the decorative panel and pipework shown at the end of this video have nothing to do with this organ. There is a simple grille of the same wood facing the congregation which had a line of mops, brushes, and vacuum cleaners leaning against it when I visited..!

[@OrganicVisitations]

Thank you for this comment! I was organist at this church (and it's other church, St Mark's) for about 2 years up until about 2010 before moving to my current post. I always enjoyed playing it. Thank you again for giving some history about this organ :-)

[@OrganicVisitations]

Correct! Due to the hoover/mops/brushes I was unable to get a good photo of the actual grille. I therefore found something 'similar' by way of explanation.

[@robertzanca5254]

Do you have additional information about Nigel Church? I have the practice organ he built for Donald Joyce in New York in 1985.

[@OrganicVisitations]

@@robertzanca5254 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Church

[@jonboz7585]

What a lovely little church and organ to go with it. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[@engelbertschoormans]

I'm an organist at a beautiful 7 stop instrument which is mostly historical, it is delightful!

[@jennfierkrueger8302]

I would like to see you do a demo of the organ of the Borley parish church. It would make a good Halloween special for next year considering it is forever linked with the infamous Borley Rectory.

[@TB76Returns]

I played an organ with 4 stops and inverted keys at North Rigton between Harrogate and Otley, but it is a bit bigger height wise and the 4ft stop is a Principal. I did videos on my second channel of it. Anyway, had any luck with Stokesley yet?

[@OrganicVisitations]

It’s a nice organ - just a shame it was so cold and out of tune! I’m still working on Stokesley 👍

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

This Organ does need to be tuned but it does have Reverse Colored Keys like a Harpsichord (definitely a throwback to the past).

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

Actually, I believe that light sharps and dark naturals were the earlier standard, if you go back far enough. Here, they are there for appearance, of course. What you do *not* want is a 'reverse'-colour pedalboard. I saw this only once, and it was hopeless. If you looked down, even to position yourself on first sitting on the bench, all you could see was the light sharps. The rest was a disconcerting, black hole!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@Offshoreorganbuilder Reverse Color Keyboards are OK.

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 Agreed. They make a change. I have made a couple of them in the past, and they always cause a comment.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@Offshoreorganbuilder The Vox Transistor Organs have that feature.

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 "Transistor Organs" ... Ouch!

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

Just for information: You cannot set a tuning scale on a 4' Flute. In this case, short of using a tuning meter, the Fifteenth, one octave below middle C, would have to be used as the standard.

[@Dave58282]

And I thought Thornaby was all about railway yards! Very interesting to see this. Maybe I'll pay a visit when visiting family in Darlington.

[@OrganicVisitations]

Plenty of railway history to visit in the North East next time you’re in this neck of the woods! Oh, and some nice organs 🎹👍

[@louisglen1653]

Interesting organ! I often wonder what type of organs if any, are in small churches in the UK.

[@jrzzrj]

👍.....good stuff

[@OrganicVisitations]

Thanks 👍

[@vedqiibyol]

I have no idea why you think the temperature had any effect on the tuning since they are all mouth pipes, in a relatively small area, enclosed, so they go out of their temper the same... The diapason changes but there is no out of tune really... There would be with reed pipes, tuned in the Summer/Fall..... If it is out of tune it can be because of three things, one of the flutes cracked, there is not enough or too much wind, or someone didn't know what they were doing and messed it all up... Apart from the last one, these are small problems anyone can fix

[@OrganicVisitations]

This is why any tuner would ask for the church to be at ‘performance temperature’ prior to tuning. All pipes, in my experience, can be badly affected by varying temperatures, although I agree, reeds more so. It’s also worth pointing out that this particular organ is rarely used nowadays and I’m not sure how regularly it is maintained/tuned 👍

[@jrorganbuilding]

The fact that the organ is out of tune has nothing to do with the temperature. The instrument simply needs tuned, and it’s going to be out of tune at any temperature because it’s out of tune with itself probably due to neglect. In the cold temperatures, the organ will be flat in pitch relative to standard pitch A4 at 70°F but that does not cause it to be out of tune with itself. When you have stopped pipes, such as the wood flute, stoppers have probably fallen in.

[@OrganicVisitations]

I do agree, however, the organ I play regularly is knocked badly out of tune ‘with itself’ in a cold church. Church on an evening in November (for example) is very cold and the organ is embarrassingly out of tune, but, on a Sunday morning when the building has been well heated the organ is beautifully in tune. This is one example of many organs I have played in varying temperatures, hence my comment regarding tuning and temperature. But you’re quite right, this organ is not often used and does need a good tune 👍😊

[@otiselevator7738]

Saying that the temperature does not affect the tuning shows a complete ignorance of pipe organs. Ideally pipe organs are kept at a constant temperature. The fastest way to make a pipe organ go out of tune is to fluctuate the temperature in the pipe chambers… or the whole building, for that matter.

[@OrganicVisitations]

@@otiselevator7738 100% agree! Perhaps people who live in countries with a more ‘stable’ climate don’t face the tuning problems that we in the UK (for example) do. A couple of weeks ago our church heating broke down and the congregation were advised to ‘wrap up warm’ as the building was bitter cold. The organ sounded as though it had not been tuned for years! The following week, with the heating back in full force, the organ back in tune! This is why any tuner would ask that the church be up to ‘Sunday morning temp’ before tuning. Admittedly, some of the organs I have visited thus far do need a good tune and maintenance visit, but the temp has a huge part to play 👍😊

[@otiselevator7738]

@@OrganicVisitations it’s even worse than I mentioned. Okay, yes, I have tuned pipe organs. What’s the problem? TEMPERATURE! The frequency of a vibrating column of air is massively affected by the temperature of the air. So, when tuning a pipe organ, THE TUNER MUST NEVER TOUCH THE PIPES! Particularly the metal ones. Touching the pipe warms the air within. So, if it is perfectly tuned, as soon as the air returns to ambient temperature… oops, the frequency changes and the pipe is out- of-tune again. Metal pipes are tuned by gently tapping them with a metal blade-like tool (name escapes me). Wood pipes are not so critical but contact is still discouraged. Oh, but it gets worse! All organ pipes are tuned by sliding collars or stoppers up and down to effectively change the length of the pipe. Temperature variations cause the sliding tuning collars or plugs to creep up (or down) a few thousandths of an inch thus throwing that pipe out of tune. Some pipes do this notoriously, while some not at all. An organ tuner that services the same instrument regularly will become familiar with which pipes are notorious for this. The only way a pipe organ is going to be in good tune is to maintain a constant temperature… and hopefully it will be fine tuned a short time before the organ is played before an audience. Oh no! There’s more! Even the vibrations endemic to a vibrations pipe can cause various pipes to go out-of-tune. Actually, this playful characteristic of pipe organs is what makes them… a pipe organ. Electronic organs do not do this… which often makes them a bit sterile. Goodness! Does anyone actually read this stuff? If so, good for you.

[@jrorganbuilding]

@@otiselevator7738 The tuning issues with the little organ in the video are not due to the temperature. If that organ were in tune with itself, all you would hear is an organ that sounds in tune, but would be grossly flat, if compared to standard A440 pitch. If that instrument had a reed stop, then the reed stop and the flue work would be grossly out of tune with each each other. However, once the temperature would be restored to where the reed stop was originally tuned, the flue stops would all come back in tune with the reed. Once again, the problem with the tuning on that instrument is because it’s cold, but rather is because because the instrument simply needs tuned from top to bottom with itself. Actually, if you listen carefully, there’s probably only a few bass notes that are out We’re probably one of the caps or one of the stoppers have fallen down, and just a few notes like that can really spoil the whole instrument.

[@johnwilson-mr6pw]

By the looks of the width of the organ, you would never get it through the door.

[@OrganicVisitations]

At least nobody can pinch it in the night 😊👍

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

To johnwilson-mr6pw: How do you imagine it got in there, in the first place?

[@OrganicVisitations]

The same way any organ that’s too wide for the doorway gets in…brought in in bits and put together onsite 👍

[@Offshoreorganbuilder]

To @@OrganicVisitations: I must disagree with you, on that one. Box organs *can* be taken apart, but only up to a point. Most of them are not meant to be. You must understand that the case carries the weight of the whole instrument (notice the one carrying handle on the right, and the hole for the other (missing) one, on the left). So I would expect this case to be solidly glued together.

[@coraelizabethbrna439]

It’s clearly missing a 16’ on the manuals. 😂

[@OrganicVisitations]

I was ‘saved’ by a 16’ swell stop on Sunday! Wait until I tell you 🫢