Breaking Down Interval Training Myths: Performance and Health Insights

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Steve Magness

Күн бұрын

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@BostonCycling_ Ай бұрын

Best running channel on KZbin rn

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Thanks a lot!

@250txc Ай бұрын

And you are a boot licker...

@bclassey1 Ай бұрын

Thank you for calling out these “influencer doctors” who have never practiced what they preach, nor studied ACTUAL outcomes of various types of training in elite athletes (even average athletes too).

@hikerJohn 29 күн бұрын

This is my second time watchging this and I will probably watch/listen to it a couple more times :o) All-out for me means . . . as much pain as I'm willing to tolerate. Hill sprints are painful as are wind sprints . . . I'm doing them a couple of times a week. Sometimes just a few and sometimes it's 6-7 or more hills in 8-10 miles. I know it's doing me good because I'm recovering faster and faster each week/month. Ive been doing this since I was 64 and I'm 70 now and the more all out I go the faster I get stronger. I recover pretty quickly as well, almost never get DOMS. We are all different, last two times I had my testosterone levels checked (in the last three years) it was 900 to 1000 (average 928) which is pretty high for a 70 year old (pretty high for any age). I have no idea what it was when I was young but I put on muscle quickly when I was in my 20's. Iv;e discovered it sucks less if I sneak up on all-out effort but doing some light running for 10-20 seconds and then gradually increase it with full recovery (low HR) in between and by the time Ive gone three miles I'm ready for some real all out effort sprints or hills. Maybe if I was 20 years old I would not have to take as long to warm up. I'm wondering what it will be like in 10 years when I'm 80

@PerryScanlon Ай бұрын

I've wondered if the subjects doing the "Hickson protocol" were secretly slacking because I can't imagine reaching near max heart rate 6 days a week and also working a job or doing school. 90% would be very draining but still possible.

@lylemcdonaldisright Ай бұрын

While i agree with more than I disagree with, a few comments, Steve 1. Assuming you're referring to the Hickson 1970's study, it wasn't 6 days intervals. It was Mon/Wed/Fri: 6X5'/2' AT measured VO2 max (retested every sunday) Tue/Wed/Thu: Working up to 40' running at maximum speed for distance (LT/MSS/etc) Yes, everybody but a couple quit after 6 weeks. But a key aspect is that the intervals were on bike. I've personally done the workout in my past life (cyclist/inline skating competitor) and it's grueling. You're right that you can do crazy sh*t for 6 weeks. 2. You seem to be quite running centric in terms of your interval ideas. This is not surprising. But on a bike things are vastly different. Without the eccentric component, you can a. readliy do them more often (not that most don't still limit to 2X/week outside of training camps b. do them at essentially max effort for time. I've done this factually. With Tabata with 60" on/60" off. The fatigue profile is very different. Swimmers often do speed work/intervals almost daily in some systems. non impact, terrible efficiency. There are more sports than running which is different than all the rest due to the impact and eccentric component. 3. Speaking to that, Tabata was done on a stationary bike. Because it came out of ice speed skating (which I also did) training where most of that work is done on bike. And it's super specific to the ice where you work the corners for about 8-10 seconds and then coast the straightaways. I don't think it has any application out side of that. And in the study it was done 4X/week (1 steady state on Wed). Admittedly only 6 weeks. But it can absolutely be done. And you can absolutely go all out for the 20 seconds. I'm not sure how you figure 170% VO2 max is 'not maximal' to begin with. Trust me it is. I've done it. Along with the endless other intervals workouts of my career. With the progression being when you get all 8X12/10 at the same power output, you increase it. And on a bike you don't break/get injured when you fatigue. You just stop pedalling. 4. So far as gen pop, I agree that the dumb fitness industry lacks nuance. You can't explain crap in a trite tweet or IG post. But neither does gen pop: a. need to be doing intervals more than 1X/week anyhow IMO (one study did 1X/week with 4 steady state and that's about right) b. work hard enough for it to be beneficial (which the 4 part series you mention talks about explicitly, adherence is crap). I've watched people in gyms 'do intervals'. And it's nothing like a true HIIT workout. It's pissing about for 10 minutes and pretending to work hard. Beginner shouldn't worry about this anyhow. If you tell them to go all out they might do 85-90% tell them to go 85-90% and they'll be pissing about. c. Need to worry about varying stimulus or durations. That's a performance thing. I agree completely. Enduros need VO2 max, anaerobic, maybe some threshold and top speed. Genpop needs workouts that thye can understand. It shouldn't be HIIT anyhow. Gen pop needs to be consistent.

@SteveMagness 29 күн бұрын

I don't have time to go through all your comments, but here's the short answer: 1. It was Hickson 1977 paper specifically. And they did 6 days a week of HARD workouts. One day was 6x5min with 2min rest, the other was 40min "as far as they could run." So no, this wasn't LT. It was essentially a time trial. So the point stands, 6 days a week of HARD, with one day off. 2, swimmers do NOT do 6 days a week of hard workouts. They use many aerobic intervals. It's more akin to Igloi training, if you want a running comparison. ON AVERAGE, it comes out to do 2 days a week of more intense work, a few moderate/mixed, and the rest easy. Can they handle more, because of the lack of pounding? Absolutely. But the intensity is still relatively low and aerobic, when you look at the individual workouts. Same goes with cycling. 3. Tabata. 170% is not max. It's near max. How do we know this? In one of the original Tabata workouts they stopped the workout once they could not sustain that intensity. This varied, but most people got through a few intervals before fatigue slowed them. Point being: If it was MAX, you'd sustain it for 1, maybe 2 intervals. I've done it too...it's not max. And the point of it coming out of ice skating is important, because when doing that...because of acceleration dynamics...you don't get to max... It's again a hard, but not comparable, workout. 4. The point isn't CAN IT BE DONE. All sorts of crazy shit can be done. I've done many crazy workouts. As pointed out, go look at Jim Ryun or Zatopeks training....lots of crazy shit can be done. We could go on and on. But whether we look at skating, skiing, cycling, or running...the idea that you need to do more than a handful of hard or intense workouts a week, is a bunch of BS. Can you handle more? Absolutely. Go look at the 1940s-50s track training. They did insane workouts. And "handled it". You can get away with stupid and crazy things. Sometimes, for a while. But the test of a proper schedule isn't "can I handle it," it's does it reliably and consistently improve performance over the long haul. And whether we're talking about running, cycling or whatever, the same pattern holds.

@kicsipatt Ай бұрын

Greetings from a Hungarian village with a populaton of 5.82 thousand, where we don't say Steve, but Pityu (or Pisti). Great content, thanks!

@snuffbox2006 Ай бұрын

As a couch to marathon person, I am glad I went to Runners connect to get a plan and learned a lot of what you said just from following the plan and how the workouts were structured and varied along with and the phases of speed, base, peak, taper, from the beginning until the race.I am very thankful that you share your knowledge with us.

@kitingholger9826 Ай бұрын

Great points and I really like the awesome knowledge in your videos. Unfortunately, there are too many ‘parrots’ around here on youtube repeating fragments of information on training methods they do not understand nor checked if they are sustainable. As a recreational runner, one can really destroy yourself following some training practices. Thanks for your great videos!

@bh... Ай бұрын

Another informative, no bs video.

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

I appreciate that!

@stuartmisfeldt3068 Ай бұрын

Your three first workouts if done at a target speed or power output can be effective. If done, all out would result in exponentially slower speed or less power as you progress through the intervals. Using RPE doesn’t work to adjust the intensity, because it is so subjective. The coach has to set a definitive target for the individual! What we have on these four examples are different training for different energy zones. Neuromuscular, CT/ATP, VO2 Max, Anaerobic Threshold 2 and Sweet Spot. There is also a difference depending on the muscles being trained and the makeup of their twitch percentages. Now we have Steven Seiler’s 80/20, Pyramidal or Norwegian styles, of which do not suggest doing HIIT daily. Also, may I add running is different than swimming or bicycling in length of recovery for the each of the energy zones.

@donnybrooklads Ай бұрын

Fewer high intensity intervals, @ 90% with full recovery for 400-800 m goal pace for me 2 x a week. I'm 62!

@chrgeo8342 Ай бұрын

What i like about you Steve is that you give solid advice. Yeah the audio is not perfect, yeah the camera is not perfect and the background is not a studio but honestly who gives a f@ck. It's your experience that matters and you are giving it for free. Thank you for taking the time to break it down for us even if sometimes as a layman i don't get all the details you say

@ElSantoLuchador Ай бұрын

I ran the 400 in high school and that race sucked. Just doing one 400 “all out” is miserable. The lactic acid burn is painful and the last 100 is pure suffering. I did shorter sprint intervals for other sports and that was more tolerable, but not a routine I could self-motivate to do a couple of times a week. One day of interval training a week is all I can manage and all I want to manage.

@obikenobi8855 Ай бұрын

Love your clips. One thing I noticed is that the audio often seems to drop out for a very short time, which can make it challenging to listen to despite the great content. Not an audio guy, so no idea what could be the reason, but maybe something worth looking into.

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Yep. I got a new mic. So future recordings should be better. Thanks for being patient.

@wk633 Ай бұрын

@@SteveMagness You need to stabilize your camera too, please!

@SkiSurfHikeIt Ай бұрын

Spitting fire 🔥 loving this series of videos

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Thanks a lot!

@olufemitaiwo1653 Ай бұрын

Makes sense that a high volume of HIIT is way too much. But what do you think about low or moderate intensity intervals for field sports/combat sports athletes (who need a diverse mix of strength, speed, aerobic, and anaerobic conditioning) instead of steady state? e.g. 1 minute on at a low pace, 1 minute off - just to build sustainable volume over time?

@Realexeuwu Ай бұрын

Can you talk more about a full training block from base building to sharpening/peaking in running? Do you like any specific pro runner’s training. I used to love ingebrigtsen’s training but recently started looking into hocker training with Ben Thomas. Great content as always.

@radudiaconu1910 Ай бұрын

We need more people like you Steve! Great stuff like always

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Appreciate it!

@InfiniteQuest86 Ай бұрын

This is crazy. I can't even imagine doing 2 interval sessions a week. Just mentally. But physically, people are definitely going to get injured trying to do 5 days a week lol.

@mnrvaprjct Ай бұрын

I’m 21 and have over the course of this year gotten up to half marathon shape at about an 8:30 pace. Coming in at about 1 hour 50 minutes. My goal is to get my pace down by about 2 minutes.

@marcusmatthews8255 Ай бұрын

This feedback is only for competitive runners who are training training for speed or performance. High intensity training for regular people who are just trying to stay healthy and increase their mitochondria for more energy and things like that - is what Dr. Patrick is talking about and is still appropriate.

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Sorry, that's incorrect...For regular people, what she has written is insane... 5 days a week of TABATA....nuts. She doesn't understand the workouts she's writing. Regular people can do interval training, but it needs to be much more controlled than what she's suggesting, and much less frequently. We even have research on this, as mentioned.

@Tych333 Ай бұрын

When running intervals, is there an advantage or disadvantage to stopping vs walking vs dropping to a jog?

@eagle63-94 Ай бұрын

Question : une sortie en cotes uniquement à fond, est considéré comme du fractionné ? Sachant que c'est surtout le cardio qui travaille en montée, et musculairement moins (bien que je me sois blessée au psoas) ; et en descente, même si travai excentrique point de vu cardio, il y a moins de travail. Est il néfaste dans une même séance de cumuler du fractionné rapide et du seuil (ou fractionnés courts : 200 à 400m + fractionnés longs : 1km, 2km...). J'ajoute qu'à 60 ans ces séances difficiles m'ont fait beaucoup progresser, jusqu'à blessure au psoas (arret entrainement qualité pendant 1 mois) ; j'attribue cette blessure au fait qu'en cote impossible de les faire à cause de cette gêne

@MarkusWaas Ай бұрын

What do you think about doing 45min Zone 2 directly before the hard workout?

@JuanHugeJanus Ай бұрын

I have written similar things a few times on her posts....

@evanhadkins5532 Ай бұрын

Does that first lot of time stamps refer to a previous podcast?

@batstv5107 Ай бұрын

I was thinking. IRL my 10k pace is 8:00/km. I wanted to improve it let us say 7:00/km (i don't want to go 6:00/km because i know it will be hard for me), so i will create an interval to run 7:00/km for 2 mins and rest for 1 min for 10 sets. I"ll lower my rest period after several sessions if my heart rate recovers faster until i can run continuously without stoping at 7:00/km.

@gerrysecure5874 Ай бұрын

Longevity correlates with healt and health somewhat correlates with vo2max. But the higher performance becomes the more it decouples from health. And maximizing vo2max does not maximize longevity.

@Avianthro Ай бұрын

Rhonda points'em in the right general direction but it takes Steve to make sure they get to their final destination safely and happily.

@shanegill5091 Ай бұрын

Steve. I'd reduce that even further for masters. One hard workout and one long run a week. From experience, it's the CNS moreso than the muscles that needs more time to recover.

@mikevaldez7684 Ай бұрын

How 'bout zero hard runs & 1 workout a week? No, make that a month. Screw it, how bout zero workouts period. Can u recuperate from that?!😢

@rashon420 Ай бұрын

To be fair to Rhonda I think she speaks more to exercisers rather than athletes. So these protocols aren’t on top of 100 mile weeks, they’re just exercise protocols. That’s not to say she’s right, I have no clue to be honest. But if I did Tabatas a few times a week and lifted some weights. I’d probably be a generally fit person and I think she speaks more to those people than athletes who want to optimize performance

@youknowwho5900 Ай бұрын

Well, to be fair Rhonda advocates 4x4, i.e. high intensity for 4 minutes! That is not for exercisers. In fact, it's not for athletes either beyond 25yo. Advocating that kind of training to the public is a health hazard and setting people for a bitter failure IMO... unless after training and competing for 30 years I turned out to be a complete wimp and a loser. :-)

@rashon420 Ай бұрын

@@youknowwho5900 I think you’re right and know a lot more than me. Just wanted to highlight the target audience for Steve Magness and Rhonda Patrick are different. She’s not a runner. Steve has deep level knowledge of all the intricacies of training and physiology and targets more towards high level training. I’m pretty sure it’s marginal gains kind of stuff for the elites. So to be fair, I don’t listen to Steve’s advice either… it’s too complicated for someone of my low level of talent. Most people can reap the majority of their gains from just doing 60-80miles/week, one tempo session and one long run. Most regular people don’t need to know what Steve Magness talks about… although it is interesting and insightful!

@tak4043 Ай бұрын

@@youknowwho5900 I do 5x5min on, 3off(varies a bit) at 40+ and 80kg, or 176 pounds, and very injury prone. It's a horrible exercise and I can't even quite reach my 5k race pace on those but it works fine. It's at this point my only run of the week. Rest of the training I do on an elliptical. 5 months and nothing but a small niggles that heal fast. Looking forward to adding 3-4x2min on, 2 min off later.

@jimsaintamour2 Ай бұрын

Hey Steve, I can’t agree with you more about this subject! I was a professional running coach in NYC for 14 years, and coached all ages and experience levels, including myself (my marathon PR is a 2:45, which was the hardest year of training in my life) and yes max 2 interval sessions a week is definitely enough. Influencers need to be super careful, and should experiment on themselves before they put out into to the rest of the World. Thanks for your input!

@mikevaldez7684 Ай бұрын

What happened? Why aren't you still coaching? Do you still run?

@mikevaldez7684 Ай бұрын

Btw, Jim Ryan did more than 2 interval sessions weekly. Roger Bannister did 10 60 sec. intervals during lunch break daily while in medical school. Everyone is different.😢 Banister's weekly mileage was 20.

@benjaminkretz6063 Ай бұрын

Do you even need intervals at all? I find so contradicting statements regarding this. In other words: are you missing something essential from a health and performance perspective if you're just running high easy volume?

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

You are missing some important stimulus for performance. You can get a long way there doing just volume, but you need a little bit more for performance. For health, it's more murkier and depends on your goals.

@benjaminkretz6063 22 күн бұрын

@SteveMagness What do you mean by murkier? I've read often that HIIT has some unique health benefits like prevention of dementia but I'm always not sure if the advantages just result from the ridiculously small volume of low infensity training that is often done in studies.

@bruceblizard1491 Ай бұрын

Is part of the problem, the source of the misunderstanding, that non-athletes may not know what an "all-out" effort actually feels like?

@stuartmisfeldt3068 Ай бұрын

Councilman, Maglisco, Mcardell, Katch all did studies based on following real world athletes, and the influencers seem not to have done the macro research on what was done 30-40 years ago.

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Exactly!

@trbeyond Ай бұрын

Great video. Would be nice to include some b-roll or graphics so it’s not just you talking

@SteveMagness Ай бұрын

Noted!

@thedolenorway Ай бұрын

I understand where you are coming from. We are spoiled with visual candy on youtube. But I don't really see what that would add to this content, at least for b-roll. I can see how some figures and charts could help explain some concepts, but I really think there is plenty of value in these videos in it's current form for their target audience. Keep doing you Steve!

@geoffreymccann2841 Ай бұрын

Another great video. Being a lot older I'd be genuinely frightened to go back and do a 800m workout or even a hard 5k workout that I had done in the past.

@250txc Ай бұрын

2:19 --- Not sure what you are trying to say here, *but* a person can go *all out* for a specific number of seconds. *All out* is an effort, not a *speed* ... lol - Yes you might slow down as even the PROs you drug into your side and *yes* the rest time might need to to lengthen some, but if you are still trying your personal *MAX* effort, you are going *all out* .... And yes, you speed will decrease and not is not what a person is looking for ... We want high and sustained higher HRs, not some sort of speed race . .. lol -- Riding off Rhondas' skirt tails reflects what you are about...

@joefrisbie1594 Ай бұрын

Loved that you mentioned Jim Ryun. Yes his workouts were nuts. Would he have had a longer faster career? The great unknown. His first coach was a track coach when he emerged on to the national scene. But his two most impressive years. An Olympian as a junior in high school and of course the iconic 3:55 in which he beat Olympic champion Peter Snell. His coach was a former junior level swimming coach. So that needs to be taken in context. Ryun also competed near the end of the "amateur" era. Where such commonly expected things like a coach, or massages were walking on the razor's edge of losing your Olympic eligibility. Who was paying for that stuff? Ah, your an professional. Thank you Aver Brundage.

@mikevaldez7684 Ай бұрын

A swimming coach coaching runners in the 50s & 60s was common. Jack Daniels mentions that. He said there was no scientific research and very little knowledge then.😢