Skat ~ Taylor's Trick-Taking Table

A trick-taker where you may not like it! WOO!
Good Skat Rules Teach: • How To Play Skat
Adam in Wales: / adamsboardgamewales
BGG Link: boardgamegeek....
Links: linktr.ee/Trop...
Table of Contents:
Intro - (0:00​​​)
Hook - (2:05)
Deck Makeup & Setup - (3:22)
Bidding/Trump Gameplay - (3:55)
Trick-Talking Gameplay - (4:31)
Points Gameplay - (6:21)
End of Hand/Scoring Gameplay - (6:40)
Final Thoughts - (8:12)
Final Thoughts (Good) - (8:36)
Final Thoughts (Bad) - (10:14)
Final Thoughts (Abstract Analogy) - (13:55)
Final Thoughts Summary - (16:29)

[@HcmfWice]

You are right, traditional card games were (mostly) not designed, they just somehow evolved into whatever they are today. Someone came up with a basic idea, they played it, fiddled with the rules where needed, meanwhile other groups came up with other changes, then the different versions competed for popularity. Also, I’m 100% sure that all these seemingly random and illogical rules (like that in some games 10s or 2s or Jacks, or whatever is higher than the King or Ace, or that in some games the trump suit’s order is completely wacky) were put there to confuse newbies and make it easier to separate them from their money. Since most of these games are now played only for recreation, rather than gambling, I find it kind of funny that so many people religiously follow the unnecessarily complex traditional rules instead of streamlining them.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

I wish i could like this comment more!! I love these points, HCMFWISE!!! I've got to pin this comment! Cheers for the stellar point!!

[@SlabBulkhead]

When I encounter a traditional card game where you get points for being dealt a better hand the Ironside/Kill Bill siren plays in my head.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Oh totally, Slab!! It's a huge turn off for me 😵‍💫😭

[@TheBoardGameDojo]

After having to write our last negative review, I just have to say that I thought you laid out your case as to why you didn't like this game really well. I always appreciate when reviewers sometimes dedicate videos to ones they don't like because for those of us who try to gauge what we will enjoy based on their videos based on similar interests, it further helps us figure out what we won't like as well. Thanks for another great video!

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Ah cheers!! Thanks a million for this comment, BGD!!! I get nervous to go critical as it's both tough to have the enthusiasm to shoot and edit about a game I don't enjoy, and I'm not a big fan of yucking someone's yum, but hopefully it helps and isn't juat mean. I think your Suroburos video is an awesome explanation of why that game didn't land for you and I totally agree that it's super helpful!

[@davidweinberg168]

I don't have much to add except to say I personally enjoy the game. I have played loads of bridge (good AUgust review?), so the depth in skat is analogous and something I enjoy. It was also nice that I happened to know it when I met my partner's German father since I couldn't really have a conversation, but we could still play.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Oh woahhhh that's something special for sure. I love that about games like this. And I've only played bridge a few times and was just blown away at the depth. I'm hoping to get a frw more plays and some more insight into that before a video. Just sooo much to that game! Cheers, and thanks a ton for the amazing comment, David!!! 😁🙌

[@afrank525]

Thanks for covering another classic!

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

For sure!! Sorry Scott was a bit harsh haha!

[@topazhk]

Taylor, em I mean Scott, you have your right to your opinion and you clearly say it’s personal. I’ve not played Skat before but I also don’t play chess (like you). Anyway, are rare negative review for you and that’s fine. Hope you didn’t get much spirited responses from the community. Oh, and I loved the irony of the relaxing piano music while you were on your rant. Great stuff. Keep up the honesty!

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Haha! Yes, Scott here, Thanks so much John. It got a bit hot after this video, so I'm in witness protection, but I means a great deal to hear the appreciation for the honesty! And to hear others' thoughts on the game too! Thanks again!!

[@jp6v]

I feel the same way about Cribbage: way too baroque for my tastes! If you flip over a Jack for the starter the dealer gets two points just because? Points for getting to 31. Points for getting to 15. Points for pairs and runs. Then a secondary scoring phase. Flushes only count during one of the scoring phases and not the other. Yikes.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

I've yet to play much Cribbage, but I totally get this sentiment Justus!! I feel like older games just have those wacky rules hahaa

[@Warriorking.1963]

I really enjoyed this video! I'll forgive you taking a sideways swipe at Chess this time, but don't do it again! Skat is a game I've heard of before, but knew nothing about until seeing your video, and even though you don't particularly like the game, credit to you for showing it in as fair a way as possible, keeping your criticisms of the game until you were finished explaining it. So yes, a really enjoyable and instructive video, but just remember, Chess has feelings too!

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Hahaaa cheers, Warriorking!! And i won't do it again😄😏 And thanks so much for the kind words! It definitely makes sense why people love it, but a bit like Marmite for me ha! And yes, I'll keep any anti-chess propaganda off the channel!

[@nateschmidt708]

As a comment on the don't-want-to-play-chess-any-more, perhaps give Chess 360 (aka Random Fischer Chess). You may have been in the same company as Bobby F when he came up with this variant.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Oh cheers, Nate!! This sounds fascinating!! 😁🙌

[@brazillb2]

Scott's causing a scene in the Jazz Bar again

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Ahhh so sorry, Bryan! I'll have security show him out here in a bit

[@Bsnsobscuregames]

I need to learn this so that I can film some B roll.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

It's the best type of roll!

[@LudwigAustin]

@@ClaudeAndTaylor I will argue for onion rolls too.. like what they put Arby's Beef and Cheddars on -- yumm

[@Michael-kt8gz]

A with 4 and without 4 score the same because jacks are only worth 2 points each. One side can capture 60-61 card points by winning just 3 tricks. I recommend you play the game more. In time, you will probably like the game at least slightly more.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

It is very possible I will like the game more with play for sure! Especially with awesome friends!

[@affirazer]

doppelkopf as another german classic next?

[@seandavidross]

SPOILER: Scott also does not like Doppelkopf

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Hey Fabian, I covered the Doppelkopf 2.0, which is the best way I've played Doko and likely the closest I'll cover Doppelkopf for at least a while, not to say I'll never cover it, but it may be a while. And like Sean said, I'm not the biggest fan of it haha

[@jthursto9]

What are your thoughts on Schafkopf?

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

I've yet to play! But I'm very interested! Hopefully soon🤞🤞🤞

[@McSchwiftys_Vlog]

I just bought the blue rings deck because it trys to paint the deck to be easier to play. I'm fearing the teach to my friends or anyone for that matter.....

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Ohhhh that's such a good call, McSchwifty! To match your blue hair ha! 😉 I've heard that's the way to go for teaching!

[@deadcowaroma5787]

Toucan?

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Oh I've never heard of Toucan before, but I'll check it out. Cheers, deadcowaroma!!

[@Mikethealtarboy]

OH GOSH I CAN"T HELP IT HERE COMES THE FLAMES. 🔥🤣 "Uncredited" - Skat is unusual in traditional cards games in that we actually do know, more or less, when and where it was created (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Skat) The first players left their diaries and experiments along the way! Some of the things you don't like - I don't say "they make sense" or "you should like them" - but just remember that in the context in which Skat was developed, these weren't new or consciencesly chosen - they were simply a normal part of how "the card games everyone already knows work." Specifically the pair-off bidding and the with/without bonuses (both deriving from Hombre from a couple hundred years earlier and still played at that time, and present in German Solo, Sheepshead, etc.). I also disagree that getting penalized for a Jack in the Skat is a problem: You know that to start with and it's a calculated risk. I never bid "as though" I'm without more than one, unless someone else's bidding _clearly_ indicates that they are "with" all my missing Jacks. You fly to close to the sun, you get burned! Hard to learn? From a reading/from a book - absolutely. From other people over 90 hands at a pub? Probably not. 😀Inelegant? Well, that's simply a question of taste that I don't think can be argued. I LOVE gothic architecture. To me it is the most elegant. But some people who are baffling to me love "modern clean lines" which to me are "sterile, unmemorable, and have no character." So to me the complexities of Skat are like the buttress, hanging keys, and quatrefoils of Gothic: they have their own integrity and contribute to the effect, even if individually they don't [any longer] serve a purpose. Finally: Wow, Vira!? That's _way_ too much for me. 🤣 (Cowbell does dial it down to "playable") Of 3-player games played with >=52 cards (i.e., not Tarot) - Skat is my absolute favorite. I play online every day, and love the chances I have to play with other people. Of the last few years I've been playing it, I've never tired of it.

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Michael thank you A MILLION for this input, I'm off to read about the history of Skat now; it's rad how the history informs the gameplay! I love this take on the video and I've pinned it as the perfect counterpoint for everything Scott said in the video. Cheers and thanks again for the wonderful comment!! 😍👏🙌😁

[@Mikethealtarboy]

@@ClaudeAndTaylor Oh - another interesting thing is in regards to the bidding. For it's first hundred years, the sort of "Official" bidding was "suit bidding" - you didn't use numbers, you named the game: "Diamonds, hearts, spades, clubs, Nill, Diamond Solo, Heart Solo, Grand..." it wasn't until after WWI that "number-bidding" became the _only_ way it was played. Using the earlier suit bidding _could_ make it a little more approachable (though the scoring is the same.)

[@Boy314]

how can you tell from someone's bids that they are "with" all your missing jacks? surely you must have a large enough game value to bid up to that point (maybe 48+? i'm not that good at skat so idk). but if you bid up to 48+ you basically have to go grand or you're already committing to playing without more than one jack if you pick a suited game. in lower bids, i find it basically impossible to intuit what jacks my opponents have, since usually bids just increment by 1 or 2 in the lower bids (18 - 30ish)

[@Mikethealtarboy]

@@Boy314 I won't say I'm good at that aspect, and part of it will be knowing your opponents. But if other people are bidding: Your first thought should probably be - as many of them as are bidding have the jacks I don't. Especially once the bidding goes past 23 - you can look at your own hand and your 7s, 8s, and 9s, and say, "Ok - maybe someone's _actually_ going for a hand or open null" - but even there, they probably have a jack in a given suit (7-9-J for example is "solid" for a null). Once it crosses 24 - anyone who's not going for null is either going for a grand (which, requiring 5 "powers" i.e., Aces, Jacks, and the Lead) or they're playing with 2 - or both. It's things like that you can look at and think about.

[@Boy314]

@@Mikethealtarboy that makes a lot of sense, thanks for explaining

[@IainCheyne]

We played this for the first time tonight. I feel the same way as. Just like you I hated the matadors - pointlessly unintuitive. I don't think you mentioned that missing your contract loses you TWICE as much as winning. This makes the game *far* too punishing. My wife didn't go for any contracts and won by a mile. It might work out fine if Skat is the only game you play but for the rest of us it's simply bad. Apparently Six Bid Solo fixes this, so I'll try it next. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Bid_Solo

[@ClaudeAndTaylor]

Yeah, I've heard that too; it being a lifestyle game fixes it, but i often think a lot of super fun games are better lifestyle games for me like hearts or spades or bridge haha! But thanks for the comment, Lain! And i hope that six fix works well!, cheeeers!!

[@Michael-kt8gz]

Matadors can tell you who holds which jack or jacks. If the bid is 22 and the declarer picks up the skat and names hearts and you have the spade jack, 99 times out of 100, your partner has the club jack. If you understand the game thoroughly, you will find it is a great game.

[@Michael-kt8gz]

The reason why losses are doubled is because of the great range in scoring contracts. The lowest possible contract is worth 18. The highest is 264. Losses are doubled to offset the great difference in contracts.