Does Axe Handle Grain Runout Matter?

[@luciussulla987]

The comparison to boxing is actually pretty good, being loose and smooth when punching is much more effective than being super stiff and trying to force the punch through. A similar snapping or flicking motion is used at the end to generate more force on contact using the hips to almost throw your hand, instead of tightly clinching your fist the whole way trying to push it . Granted this is not a good explanation on my part but I can definitely see the connection.

[@manatoa1]

I agree. You don't hit people by placing your fist against them and pushing, and by the same token, you can't push your axe through a tree. It's power (½mv²) that gets the job done, not force (f=ma). I think the "punch through someone" image is only good for making sure that you aren't making contact with someone at the very end of your arm's extension. It's more of a distance thing than a power thing.

[@SkillCult]

pretty sure that some teach to follow through punches, and using the floor to drive power into a punch, but several have commented about momentum approaches. The difference I see mainly is pushing on, or just being on, the end of a handle changes all of that. It would be interesting to do a deeper dive on that one. Clearly the whole speed and momentum thing plays a huge role in hitting people. And you see fighters drop people with fast, snappy and seemingly low effort punches. how that equates to axemanship with all of the complex joint articulations and having a handle or not, seems like a really complex problem.

[@aussiehardwood6196]

Great to see u doing videos. I just oiled over 20 handles near my woodstove with food grade flaxseed oil I bought from my chemist. Damn they feel nice after about 20/30 coats.

[@SkillCult]

Neat isn't it.

[@HighColorado]

I have shared S.C.'s vids on linseed with numerous friends!

[@bfdadventure]

I found that if one uses pure tung oil, like Real Milk Paint Co. oil for a few coats and then let the last coat UV bake in the sun for an hour per side of handle...it creates a hella hard finish and is not too slippery or grippy. I do this to all my axe handles now.

[@elemental4rce]

Would love to see a video of you out in the woods again or even just a small video of you making something using an axe/hand tools again with a voice over of the process in your mind. I loved the splitting oak for handle wood video. I think we share the mentality of, it's the process, not necessarily the product. Hope you're well Steve!

[@SkillCult]

I would like that too lol. Not gettin out too much lately. Or making much. I should though...

[@paintedwings74]

@@SkillCult I think you are a person whose soul needs to be outside, from the sliver of your life that you've shared online. I mentioned on a previous video comment that my joints are all screwed, and you commiserated in some way. For me, it's been due to Ehlers Danlos joint erosion catching up to me, made worse by a youth spent bouldering, climbing mountains, and running. I can only imagine that if it's healthy or mobility issues keeping you down, that must really, really SUCK. I hope you are in a position to get back out there again, or at least to make stuff indoors (which is what I end up doing when I can't walk). Anyway--my good wishes for your health. October is a month that draws me out into the lovely cold water of the muskrat pond, and my chainsaw comes out with me to attack the evil buckthorn trees that clog my woods. I wander through falling leaves and pass by deer, listen for month-old garter snakes in the oak leaves, and sit by the pond at dusk to watch for swimming mammals and listen for the bald eagles nesting nearby to chirp to each other, with voices that sound like upsized orioles or vireos. So I feel especially lucky this year; when last October I was counting down the days until my knee could be replaced, this year I've been able to get my bare feet into the mud of the marsh, harvest plants to work with through the winter, and rather than try to make the days go by faster, get out there and eat up every slow moment. I guess I shouldn't share all that if you can't get out into it. I know I'm lucky. Whatever's kept you indoors, I hope you do get to go into the real world more often, and soon.

[@SkillCult]

@@paintedwings74 glad to hear you are doing better. I know the wanting the days to go by fast feeling well. I still have issues, but I'm outside around the homestead a lot at least and seemingly making some progress.

[@mapleenderson8541]

in Bulgaria at my village we build hatchet handles out of thin wood. So basically square it and put the handle on. With eye of the wood and everything. Our axes are all slip on and it works just fine. The concept of thin handle was introduced by you. I was just making them as thin as the lower eye of the axe head(is a must for slip on) but i have been experimenting making them even thinner.

[@SkillCult]

The slip on Basque axes are quite thin at the handle area.

[@mapleenderson8541]

@@SkillCult True but i never seen one in real life and our heads are Г shaped. Like a viking axe

[@weakest_serb]

​@@mapleenderson8541 The same axe head design you mentioned is very common here in Serbia and also in Bosnia. Axes with large beards are very rarely seen in other parts of the world which is pretty cool.

[@mapleenderson8541]

i@@weakest_serb i come from the Balkans too brother)

[@iolithblue]

You mention density, it's more than that, some woods have short fibres and are brittle, there is good reason that tool handles are ash, hickory, Osage orange etc, as they are tough and spring back, not brittle like ebony etc.

[@misterfixie6003]

Very timely! The xylem and the phloem make up the grain, the lignin is the glue! The vertical orientation relative to the plane of the axe head is critical, as you say. My old handle broke for this very reason, right under the head. I am about to make a new handle for my go-to axe. I made a template out of thin clear plexiglass so I could find the best wood in the ash from my farm wood pile. Thx for the great info. - fixie

[@johnlord8337]

Tree cellulose fibers (the same cellulose that is put into your bread - since the earliest of modern bakeries !!!) is held together by lignin "glue." Lignin is a class of complex organic polymers (tree glues, saps, tars, oils) that form key structural materials in the support tissues of most plants. Lignins are particularly important in the formation of cell walls, especially in wood and bark, because they lend rigidity and do not easily rot. Thus, having the proper alignment of cellulose fibers and that of the lignin glue is important for baseball bats, and axe/hatchet handles. Otherwise, they will split upon the kinetic energy (KE) (impact) of a hard baseball upon the resistant potential energy (PE) and the swinging kinetic energy (KE) of a baseball bat .....or the over-abuse of chopping any wood density's resistant potential energy (PE) more than the actual swinging kinetic energy (KE) and the potential energy (PE) of the metal axe head and that of the handle can absorb.

[@preparedsurvivalist2245]

Lets just appreciate the value of his illustrations for a minute. Its actually very informative. Regarding the sideways force on handles, when I split and the axe head only partially penetrates, I torque the handle sideways and pry the wood apart. That type of of use would actually be ideal for a diagonal grain orientation.

[@MaverickandStuff]

I have had many handles break on me, mostly sledge hammers. It is more important that the grain follows the handle curvature from one end to the other. You want as much grain as possible to travel through the entire handle. Parallel grain is more rigid and perpendicular grain is more flexible. With that in mind perpendicular is a little more comfortable, but more suited for straight handles. Unfortunately perpendicular grain is more likely to peel off like the axe shown. I have had to tape many sledge hammers/splitting mauls handles because of this.

[@SkillCult]

Yeah, following the shape end to end is kind of the opposite of runout, regardless of the shape. A grain that follows a curved handle would not have run out. It doesn't have to be straight. Rarely exists though, probably mostly by accident. I've heard people say that horizontal grain is more comfortable, but haven't experienced it myself. I haven't tried to look up any science on flexibility in both directions either. In bow making, daylighting face grain on the back of a bow is a good way to encourage it to blow out. I think it might be as much that there are different types of wood, alternately exposed, as that it is overall weaker. Maybe since the small lines are harder, the thin and wide lines might behave differently. Could be a possible cause of separation. there is probably science on all of that already. I"m too lazy to look :)

[@gordonmacdowell8117]

Outstanding video. It kind of speaks to how I was raised to use an axe. You were mindful of a runout grain, but still used it, because it was what was there.

[@johnlord8337]

You are correct about the alignment and the timber cut for proper axe/handles.

[@1südtiroltechnik]

Its the most important aspect when chossing a handle, i read studies about baseball handles.

[@SkillCult]

Oh yeah, that's a perfect thing to study this. did they mention how often failures were from delaminating rings v.s. splitting in other ways? Wood quality can be huge too. Sometimes you can tell and sometimes not. Occasionally it's actually some kind of dry rot, but other times, just wood that is not very tough.

[@daviddeupree7707]

This isn't about runout but just wanted to tell someone that likes axes. I just finished putting a vintage man boys head on a broken 36 inch handle. It broke pretty clean just below the old head. I almost threw the handle out but it looked so nice I put it aside and I wasn't having any luck with boys handles up here. So anyway man I'm rambling, the thing turned out about 30 inches in total. It took me about 2 weeks of messing with the thickness until i got it right realy like the feel so far. Thanks for all the work you put into your videos I appreciate it and all the best from Northern California

[@traviscornett1963]

It’s the density difference between “early” (summer) wood and “late” (autumn) wood that creates the weak points between the “rings”. You want these rings running parallel to the arc of your swing, ideally. But yeah, you nailed it. Good stuff as usual.

[@KevinsDisobedience]

Good stuff, as always.

[@jacosepp7335]

When it comes to boxing, it depends whom you ask. As a retired professional I would say that yes it can be compared to boxing. There are many Styles of boxing in witch we don't think about punching through the head. For example the Russian style well portraid by Vladimir Klitschko. Not fully extending you hand in the end of a for example straight punch would mean a loss of speed and snap. We lose power when "pushing" (when fist hits the target while still considerably bent from the elbow). I find it similar because the way I was trained, they said to imagine the hand as a rope with a stone in the end so that we would not force the punches but throw them. Any way thank u for a great video, i love the graphics, keep it up

[@SkillCult]

Yeah, that analogy of the rope and stone holds. that is generation of momentum as with an axe. It's the anchor of power from the ground and driving through, which doesn't seem to. thanks, cool comment.

[@nineallday000]

13 more minutes about axe handles? Yes please :D

[@mattlambert3118]

I could see how some body mechanics stuff could transfer from boxing to axe work. It's not exactly the same movements, but it's the same kind of reasoning behind the movements to accomplish the goal.

[@SkillCult]

My objection has to do with the oft cited generation of power from the ground. It is possible that such a thing could work by contributing to whole body momentum, but having the working end of the tool a the end of a long stick has to mostly negate it.

[@OnceUponAnotherTime]

Excellently done. Saving the link to pass on to others. Was badly needed, seeing all the parrotted misinformation online in video after video.

[@SkillCult]

I call it book report culture. Consume a bunch of information, assume it is correct and then regurgitate it in content as if you know what you are actually talking about lol. Information is not knowledge. The sooner we are force to learn that in this new information age, the better. This is a short playlist of select axe videos. there is a much bigger one in my playlists. kzbin.info/aero/PL60FnyEY-eJD47QU5xFE87smq2RQmuM5B

[@bradleyrobinson7552]

Good video, thanks for sharing. Boxers chopping down trees and splitting wood didn't start with Muhammad Ali in the '60s. Bare-knuckle boxers in the late-1800s chopped wood as part of their conditioning, and it continued into the 1900s. Video of Jack Johnson chopping wood circa 1910, Jack Dempsey in the 1920s, Joe Louis in the 1930s and into the '40s, Patterson in the '50s. Some fighters still simulate that training nowadays by using sledgehammers on huge tires. In the 1990s, George Foreman kept that old school way going by chopping wood in training camp.

[@roverinosnarkman7240]

I think what you say is true, but I think I got more ‘spring action’ at the head when my old ash handled axes wood grain was transversely oriented to the plane of motion (ie side to side instead of front to back). That flex is favorable, just like in a golf swing (even though I haven’t played golf in about 35 years). I think I can (‘used to’ is more accurate) deposit more energy into the cut by whipping the axe head into the wood. A least that’s how I remember it. The speed of the axe head makes more difference that the mass of the axe head, all else being equal (kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity, but only directly proportional to the mass). If I drive the axe head into the wood, the spring action of the handle makes a small favorable difference in the final depth of cut in my experience. But I might be misremembering that. One of the issues you will discover about being old and experienced is that you will be less certain of your ‘old’ opinions. Ah well, wishing you much success in your vibrant youth, -Rov

[@mihacurk]

I thought about the same thing, glad somebody else notices! After all, traditional bows are made with the hirizontal grain orientation just because it is more springy. I get that the vertical orientation makes it easier to prevent runout in curvy handles though.

[@SkillCult]

You still get runout, it's just different run out and possibly a lttle less likely to initiate failure.

[@SkillCult]

I know that has become a pretty common the current school of thought on grain orientation. Probably spread by Buckin' Billy Ray Smith. Not the most important factor, but I will usually select for vertical to diagonal still. Partly influenced by bow making, where initiation of failures seem to be much more likely with that type of flat grain runout. I actually had a bow sittingthere to demontrate tht, but got caught up and forgot lol.

[@paintedwings74]

Rov, nothing says wisdom like knowing we might be wrong, and nothing multiplies intelligence like being willing to change our minds.

[@lethenhitch9439]

@@SkillCult Yeah a bow with run out on the back usually will not survive. Maybe to a lesser extent that same principal would apply to the back of an axe handle?

[@bpj1805]

Cultish follow-through cliches are one of my pet peeves. In any impact event, what you do with the driving object (fist, axe, golf club, whatever) after the impact has no more effect on the driven object (face, log, golf ball, whatever). People talk as if somehow the follow-through time travels to before the impact, when really "follow-through" only matters in how executing one's strike to achieve it sets up the swing *before* the impact.

[@roysuggs3635]

I think the glue is Lignin. Thanks for your videos.

[@ratatoskr1069]

What about naturally grown branches in the shape of the handle. Would they be strongest? Also there is supposed to be moon wood, aswell as slowly grown wood from higher altitudes in the mountains. Wood is such a fascinating material with such a huge range of quality and skill.

[@SkillCult]

I suppose, but it seems unnecessary to go that extreme. Also, you are usually going to be stuck with a small diameter branch, which creates other problems.

[@vaskopc9430]

Great video. I can tell you about my father's axe which has a typical eastern European bearded head design and the handle is hung by just slipping the handle through the head from the top of the eye. Although it has grain running almost perfectly like bottom right picture on your video it has close to no grain runout at all. And it only recently broke after at least 20years of use. Handle was made out of black loucast. So I'm my experience having a straighter handle rather than curved one will make it a lot stronger. Cheers

[@SkillCult]

I have made black locust handles. I'm not sure how toughness compares to hickory, in the sense I explained of not splitting eaisly. I think it can be stiffer maybe though. Stuff never rots though. My small hatchet sat in a field for a year and still has the same black locust handle. I lost another one for a year or more, some thing, and niether is warped.

[@robertgraves3215]

Once again, Out freaking standing! I eventually noticed that, at the point of impact, if I relaxed my grip *just slightly*, I got less hand fatigue , which saps energy. I learned that as a kid shooting a longbow , that has a lot more "handshock" than a noisy recurve. So, yes, chill on that grip. We could also get more scientific and microscopic and be like: "well maybe that split occured on that growth ring because it was a drought year , or the tree got a magnesium deficiency. Or something. LOL. Oh wow maybe some chinese immigrant kid will write a MIT thesis paper on that someday and we'll all be saved.

[@erikolsen6269]

Great video, could it be that you could make a video about choosing a piece of wood and how to dry it etc in the future? Or maybe thats not your kinda video. Anyways, great video

[@ArosAxes]

I'd love to see you do some reviews or reactions to some of the more fancy looking axes that some of the custom shops make. Especially the custom handles that show up in online forums like axe junkies and whatnot. Some of them look great, but I'm curious about what you might see as points of failure or simple bad design for use. Cheers from Denmark, really enjoy all of you're videos!

[@SkillCult]

Interesting idea...

[@AlexanderBushcraft]

Tnx, very clear!

[@David__.]

I like your descriptions, makes sense.. It's a similar thing with a scythe- the heavy handed 'beating' the thing through the grass doesn't help your cutting. I'm also surprised to hear about grinding out portions of an axe so that it cuts better, I never realised that. Why don't they just mold the axe head the right shape in the factory? They leave it up to personal preferences? I'm from South Africa so I don't know what the general production practice is here but I'll have to find out- I'm not an old hand with an axe but do enjoy using it. Thanks!

[@SkillCult]

You have to expect to do some work to the axe. I don't think it is really possible to make them come out of the press or forge in the right shape. They will often grind some in the factory, but not enough to chop well.

[@David__.]

@@SkillCult Ok. That's something new to learn! I don't have electricity so it's probably going to be tough but I'll look into it.

[@Jesusiskingamen7]

I have three true temper boys axes and all of them have grain that most would say is not right but all three of them have been used to cut and split a cord and a half of wood and they are still just fine. The quality of wood is more important than grain orientation to me

[@SkillCult]

pretty damn important for sure, but at some point, a level of stress on a handle with bad runout will fail before the equivalent piece of wood with out it. Just factors we can use to stack the odds in our favor. Unfortunately, toughness does not seem to be discernable.

[@HighColorado]

S.C. I wish I had enjoyed College classes as much as I thoroughly enjoy your videos!

[@SkillCult]

I tried to go to community college. I was too bored :)

[@mapleenderson8541]

very useful information like always. Great job

[@mathewmorton6694]

An axe video! Let’s gooooooo!

[@elim7228]

Thank you for such an informative video. Will def watch the other ones. Much respect.

[@megrim8292]

You know...I was just thinking. This foot adze I got might be better in your hands than mine. If I wanted to send it to you what would be the best way I could contact you? Do you want it?

[@megrim8292]

I sent you an Email.

[@SkillCult]

Thanks man! It's here, just held at the post office for pickup.

[@peterlustig8021]

I would prefer the same grain orientation you do. But I actually never looked at the grains of the handle (never broken one) But I saw a couple of workers trying to install electric wiring in the ground and they couldn't get past the rocks. I was amazed by how little they knew about handling and swinging a pickaxe. It's the same as with the axe but can cause way more impact trauma on the hands if a rock is hit with the death grip.... And I hadn't ever bothered to look up proper technique, just because it worked out for me, but this is cool!!! How about recording and showing some slow motion footage of your chops and maybe compare things like death grip or light grip

[@SkillCult]

That is a great idea. I already want to do slow mo studies of axe handle behavior and speed gain over distance. when I use a pick, I'm practically letting all the way go of the handle. That will definitely beat your ass fast to death grip a pick. Especially with the thick stiff handles they have, which are not a problem if you aren't gripping them at impact.

[@andrewsackville-west1609]

@@SkillCult yes, would love to see.that!

[@mihacurk]

Steven, you could try contacting Destin from Smarter Every Day about the slo-mo videos of axe handle breaking to maybe do a collab. I think this subject is geeky enough for him to get super excited about:)

[@SkillCult]

@@mihacurk I'll check him out. definitely seen that channel pop up before. I think I have 250 frames per second, but only in very low res. There are at least two slow mo studies I'd like to do.

[@tomn.9879]

Very helpful very demo.

[@Jesusiskingamen7]

Good video brotha.

[@goatmoag]

Hey, are you still having trouble with lyme disease? If so try some chaga. It worked for me on some joint pains I was have that I think may be caused by lyme disease.I just break a piece off and chew on it till it is gone. If I was going to make a tea I would grind it up, it seems like a waste to do it by just dropping a chunk in hot water. Could cap the powder too if inclined.

[@SkillCult]

I have some a friend sent me. I'll cook some up today. most stuff I've taken has just has not seemed to work. but now that I'm doing a lot better, I think it's more likely stuff might actually do something. before it was like an eyedropper on a forest fire. fasting is super useful for inflammation. when I get in a bad cycle, I'll usually fast for anywhere from 24 hours to 5 days.

[@alpinian7144]

It's certainly more about skill and technique than it is the wood quality. When I first started chopping I would break several handles then it slowed way down once I got comfortable with it. Need to get back out there and cut wood, maybe it will break this down spell.

[@SkillCult]

Axe therapy. Using them works better than buying them ;)

[@polderfischer8565]

Thanks for this lesson about wood!

[@valricsteelblood2425]

Those in timbersports really aren't concerned about the long term survival of their axes. They always have backup axes on hand for each game.

[@SkillCult]

Or about getting tired, or about being physically efficient.

[@Steve_G88]

great video!

[@T3hJones]

The last axe handle I broke was when I used the back of the axe heard to hit a wedge kinda hard...

[@SkillCult]

Was it right below the eye where the slope is? that is pretty easy to break due to all the runout and change in behavior between the thick part and the thinner handle.

[@T3hJones]

@@SkillCult Yes about right. I knew I was pushing it but I got tired of that stubborn stump!

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

Have you done any hewing of logs for building cabins or other buildings? I’m took apart, moved and am rebuilding an 1876 log house in western NC. I’m hewing any replacement logs that I need. Hard work but very fulfilling to me. Just wondering if you have any experience at it?

[@SkillCult]

A little, but pretty limited.

[@mohameddoccali7872]

👍 شرح وافي . شكرا على التوضيحات

[@cephasmcpher67peteroutdoorspip]

What is your view on having heartwood in a handle. I go to my local " Tractor Supply" and check the handles to see if I might actually find a diamond in the rough there. I have noticed a few handles that have a decent vertical grain pattern but there is some heartwood in the run off areas.

[@SkillCult]

I avoid it personally. There are much more important factors though. You just have to look at everything and pick the least worst.

[@scopescaroutdoors]

What are your thoughts on new growth vs old growth lumber? I think that may affect ax handles Strength too.

[@SkillCult]

Old axe handle literature often states a preference for wider growth rings in hardwoods. So do bow makers. Often people think the opposite, which is likely due to softwoods being stronger with tighter rings. I think that wide rings in a hardwoods at least are more flexible and resilent. I don't have a ton of personal accumulated info to draw on, but I definitely favor wide rings. but given any pile of axe handles, there are a lot of things to look at, and some might trump that factor when all things are considered.

[@SkillCult]

If I come to florida can we go hunt giant snakes? :) probably not going to happen, but that would be hella fun as we way here in norcal.

[@scopescaroutdoors]

@@SkillCult that would be awesome!

[@daweed4255]

If someone things he needs to push his axe through the wood, give him a little hammer. Let him push this hammer on to one of his fingers and rate the pain, than lift the hammer up some inches and drop it. No more diskussion needed.

[@paintedwings74]

It isn't so much as a "glue" failing as it is like ripping weak cloth that's holding together layers of stronger cloth. There are layers of fast-growth wood and slow-growth wood, affecting how tightly packed together the fibers of lignin and cellulose are. Tightly packed layers of fiber form when the growing conditions are less than ideal. Say it's a cold, cloudy spring, so there are leaves up and making food, but not very quickly. The leaves are demanding water--it's part of the chemistry of making sugar--which comes up through the tubes formed in that growing ring of wood, but because there's not a whole lot of growth, the tubes don't have to be very large. The fibers of these "drinking straws" for the growing leaves are close together. Now say it's a brilliant, humid summer day, and the tree is making food in its leaves like crazy: it needs a lot more water, so it grows large "straws." Not only are the straws large in diameter (you can see this with a hand magnifying glass on some wood) but the tree has to make them quickly to keep up with the ideal growing conditions. Because each tube is larger, the fibers it's made of are further apart. And because they're laid down so quickly, they don't have the same density and strength as a bunch of tight little tubes. So when you split along the grain, what you're doing is stressing that fast-growth tree-ring that has larger tubes, with less tightly packed fiber to provide strength, and that layer rips. On the microscopic level, it's not like a glue failure, it's like ripping cloth.

[@SkillCult]

You mean cellulose I think. Collagen is an animal protein.

[@paintedwings74]

@@SkillCult LOL! Omg, you are so right. Can you tell I'm an amateur tanner? Gaah, please laugh with me as well as at me.

[@ergezinger]

I've been toying with the idea of using Micarta for an Axe handle. Any thoughts, anyone?

[@SkillCult]

too heavy probably. and very stiff I think.

[@haydenfox3116]

The topic of axe handles has been interesting me for quite some time. Although ash and hickory are seen as the tool handle wood kings, I'm interested to see if there are any other woods better suited for the task. Increased flexibility would dissipate energy going down the handle, I've been researching different woods with higher flexibility such as our Pacific yew for this reason. Wood Database is a great resource to find MOE MOR, Janka hardness and weight of woods

[@haydenfox3116]

Shellbark Hickory does have some incredible stats in terms of wood, though it is stiff. How much do you think flexibility, and weight play into increasing the performance of handles? Would you be willing to sacrifice rupture strength (how hard to break handle in half) for increased flexibility?

[@paintedwings74]

@@haydenfox3116 it also begs the question of composite construction. For all the years since the axe on a handle was invented, handles have been made of wood, until recently when fiberglass has been used. Fiberglass is lame. But composite doesn't only mean artificial materials; if you look at bow construction, there can be not only different woods used, but also the springy collagen of sinew layers either laminated or bound to the wood. It would make no sense to bother with that sort of thing for an axe handle, because they're so easy to replace and current materials last a long time, but still--it's an interesting idea to think: what could be done with laminated layers of stiffer, stronger, with more flexible and shock-tolerant?

[@SkillCult]

Yew in bows is notorious for exploding. It has excellent recovery, but it's very brittle. the tougher woods are typically heavy and dense, which has it's own issues. I don't think high density is good, except in that it is often coming with toughness. Ash might be the compromise, where you loose some strength and toughness, but you keep enough and get a less dense, more shock absorbing handle. Other common old woods used in Americal were rock maple, hornbeam, black locust and eastern white oak. Of those I've only used .black locust. super dense, hard, most of t probably splits easier than most hickory.

[@paintedwings74]

@@SkillCult oh, wow black locust is an option? I have a length of that finishing drying outside, and it's time to bring it in and let it dry indoors over the winter. Will have to get a new small axe head and make a longish handle for it. New fun project!

[@SkillCult]

@@paintedwings74 yep, contemporary and historical.

[@danmichell7516]

so where will a laminated handle be in this [2 or 3 pieces ]

[@SkillCult]

lamination definitely diverges from the rule of runout somehow. but I'll bet the best lamination would be slabs with slightly opposing runout.

[@saradreaming]

Love your stuff!

[@johnlord8337]

The hardness or wood density - calibrated according to the Janka scale - is and is not a good characterization for an axe/hatchet handle or how a hardwood handle or lesser "soft" hardwood would react vs a true softwood handle. The same for the cutting ability of each of these handles vs any wood being split ... or the axe/hatchet heads (double bladed or hammer head) bevel cutting edge with any species of wood density. The harder the handle, the more the metal axe head and the human hewer are going to absob the impact shock. This then comes to whether the axe head splits from the wooden/fiberglass handle, the intact axe head and handle "chings !!!" (richochets) off in various directions to the original cut, ... or the total axe/hatchet and handle passes along all the shock to the human ending up with prolonged tennis and carpal tunnel wrist, eblow, and shoulder injuries. A "soft" hardwood handle would absorb some of the kickback - and some to the human user. A true softwood would absorb everything and instantly shatter. A total hardwood (as said) would pass along all the energies into the axe head or back to the human user. The very reason in having a snug-hold of the axe/hatchet handle, but not so much as you become the recipient of all the kickback into the handle. Alowwing the handle some free play after impact, allows both handle (and especially human) to zing off the energies into the air vs passing them directly into the human hands.

[@SkillCult]

Pretty much the way I see it as far as I could follow.

[@whiteranger0505]

Would a handle made out of the center of a smaller log be stronger or weaker than one properly cut from the side of a large log?

[@SkillCult]

I'd say probably weaker. possibly less stable too.

[@elemental4rce]

@@SkillCult definitely weaker. I've been making a lot of handles and finding the best stuff to go for is the outer wood on large diameter trees (15-20" trees). Ideally with wider growth rings. Eastcoastlumberjack makes some very informative videos on handles that i think you should check out if you haven't already.

[@paintedwings74]

As a rule of thumb that works, but there are a lot of factors that go into it. Smaller logs generally have a lot more branches as a tree is growing, so there are knotholes everywhere. But when you talk about a large log, it's not always going to have the right properties, even though the lack of knots is a huge improvement. At some point, a larger log might mean it's more rigid, unable to absorb the stresses. The cut of the wood can make a big difference, too. But again, as an overall rule, yes, the smaller log is more likely to have the kind of knots and non-continuous grain that causes breakage.

[@SkillCult]

@@elemental4rce I have not seen his videos. American tradition seems to be faster, second growth hardwoods.

[@robert4027]

What is your thoughts on the Prandi brand. Boys axe please.

[@SkillCult]

I have not tried it.

[@ratatoskr1069]

Spades and Axes are projectile weapons on a leash.

[@toadstkr]

My dad is 87 years old and can still use an axe better then anyone I’ve ever seen. And it looks effortless and mostly uses a boys axe that’s older then me (56)

[@SkillCult]

Awesome, cool story.

[@itllkeal]

I see more work done with the flick method instead of the follow through. Just my opinion

[@SkillCult]

I do both, depending.

[@bfdadventure]

There is intelligent and there is smart. I think being smart is using intelligence in a practical way, and you certainly bring it on home like a champ! You just cut through (pun intended) lifetimes worth of wives tales and baseless anecdotal "knowledge" with this presentation.

[@samhenderson2947]

Lignin?

[@Codi_Clapper]

It’s what makes your wood hard 😆. Or that’s what my wood science teacher would tell us. Basically it’s a very complex molecule that gives wood structure. It is what gives it its density and strength. It is also the last chemical component to decompose after a tree dies. Good stuff

[@adrianricker]

I think the idea of using wood chopping to acquire boxing skills is some Mr. Miyagi bullshit. Sure it sounds like you can punch through a titanium wall, but it will never happen. You can probably make some incredible gains if you chase that possibility, but you'll never get to the goal.

[@SkillCult]

It was probably about conditioning and muscle. Probably overchopping too, just to get more exercise lol.

[@wis1024]

So you should chop wood more like how you would jab? Less focus on power more on snap and speed.

[@SkillCult]

Or less focus on follow through, more on speed might be a good way to put it.