IJN Tosa - A Victim of Treaty Restrictions

The Washington Naval Treaty saw the cancellation of many ships. Ranging from the American South Dakotas and Lexingtons, to the British N3 and G3. However, the furthest along of these cancelled ships were the Japanese Tosa (or Kaga) class.
These battleships, arguably a bit outdated even as they were canceled, are an interesting look into Japanese naval design. Originating from a modified Nagato design, and eventually ending up as a completely different ship. All from the same base concept of 'what if we had two more guns?'.
It's a fun look at Japanese naval design.
Further Reading:
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[@doktorjohann4883]

Tosa's hulk was filled with gravel and sunk in deep water near the mouth of the Bungo Channel, in about 300 feet of water. I have never come across anything stating that her wreck was relocated, probably because it isn't of much interest being an expended target hulk. I have the coordinates if you want them, though given how busy the Bungo Channel is good luck getting enough of a dive window to get a look at her.

[@Aelxi]

Damn. Glad she's diveable tho.

[@anantr99]

If she was scuttled in 300 ft of water, I have a feeling there is a decent chance she has also been salvaged to some extent. There isn't much beyond steel there, but that is shallow enough for people to try, legally or otherwise.

[@doktorjohann4883]

@@anantr99 It is a possibility, though I feel that something on that scale would have been remarked upon. Had there been demand enough for her value as scrap, she would have been scrapped. The smash-and-grab method of salvage was theoretically possible at the time, and might have been done, though the challenge of her hull filled with gravel, sand, and mud would have been a painful one to deal with. I feel if she was worth the effort, the Japanese would have scrapped her like they did Amagi's wrecked hull. Wartime salvage was too dangerous, as the Bungo Channel was regularly patrolled by submarines and later mined heavily by the USAAF. Postwar, there was such a glut of scrap steel on the market that she wouldn't have been worth salvaging. Even Mutsu, in a protected anchorage and at a much shallower depth, wasn't salvaged heavily until the 1970s, and even then primarily for her machinery, armor, and guns. There is also the fact that she was scuttled in a busy shipping channel, meaning any merchant vessel would have had to be made aware of those operations in order to steer clear of them. Bearing all that in mind, I am going to assume that she sits right where she was scuttled in 1925 until I see evidence otherwise. :)

[@69Applekrate]

It seems so foolish and wasteful when navies scuttle ships and not salvage them. There is so much value in scrap. nice video, well worth watching and learning from. recommended

[@genericpersonx333]

There should be value in scrap, but because of scrap steel's very low margins, it is frequently not cost-effective to scrap some things at some times because the value of the scrap itself has to exceed the cost of scrapping it. WNT ships were particularly annoying because they had be destroyed by certain times, regardless of the market conditions, a lot of cheap steel was being dumped on the market very quickly between 1922 and 1928. Even for a nation with limited scrap supplies, it appears there was no one willing to buy Tosa as scrap when she needed to be, so the IJN went with the cheapest way to get rid of a ship in compliance with WNT.

[@jacobdill4499]

HMAS Australia was scuttled for similar reasons.

[@lloydknighten5071]

I have always wanted to see what the TOSA Class would have looked like had they been constructed. I really enjoy your channel and it's thorough historical research.

[@Tundraviper41]

after having canceled so many battleship classes like the Tosa's, the Kii's and the NO, 13 class, its remarkable when you think about it, that japan after being unable to build new battleships for quite some time, that by the time the two Yamatos were designed they shared little in common with her fully built predecessors. Which showed the massive disparity between the last ships that could be built vs the newest ones built.

[@panic_2001]

Great content, as always 👍

[@paulamos8970]

Very informative video, thanks.

[@BHuang92]

How about the Bearn? Quite a cursed looking aircraft carrier!

[@jasonherring2419]

Bearn is sort of the French version of HMS Eagle with a less interesting career.

[@Tundraviper41]

And it was slower than the titanic, too.

[@HomelessEmperor-ps4gs]

Ah, one of my favorite ships of all time!

[@avnrulz8587]

Growing up in NYC, I remember seeing a story about the Japanese buying the steel from the old Elevated train lines torn down in the 1920s and 1930s.

[@wknight5595]

Are you the same guy who used to do WarThunder navy videos? Yr voice sure sounds familiar😁

[@Aelxi]

She's my favourite warship.

[@AnonNomad]

Props to the Japanese Gov for diplomacy with the very hard to deal with school children's union to get Mutsu funded. Extremely tight with their finances, that lot.

[@tonysheridan9042]

Regarding the wreck, just remember how bad the Japanese consider losing face. They know where it is but like their other lost ships, rarely if ever searching for on admitting they know where they are. Here they spend millions on a state of the art weapons platform, only to sink it due to a scrap of paper. No photos at all of Musashi pre loss, no search for Shinano in their own home waters, nothing on Kongo and the list goes on.

[@kevinriffey9970]

There is a photo of yamato and musashi in harbor together.

[@koltp1909]

What if WG made Tosa for WOWS

[@Aelxi]

Been waiting for it like forever now

[@Kitty-CatDaddy]

I've heard this ship called Na (nag) Ga (got) toe Nag-got-toe. Just don't pronounce the g in Nag, or the t in got.

[@justinarchibald3857]

The G3's were never ship's nor were they going to be ship's. Ever. They were so incomparably expensive to the funding the British parliament had for allocation, that the Navy would have had fleets without cruisers or destroyers to get them. Even their limited budget was without notable Submarine development as the British like no other major power eschewed Submarine warfare between wars. When comparing actual ships being built to plans of ships that would never get a budget to ships like the multiple Japanese and American ships is a bit disingenuous.

[@Chode216]

High quality steel free of radioactive contamination, time to salvage those old BBs.

[@hattrick8684]

Most are war graves, fallen apart and decayed past usefulness and way too deep to justify scraping then. Salvagers are salvaging war graves though.

[@JoshuaTootell]

This is virtually a non issue anymore

[@Aelxi]

No

[@jimfarmer7811]

Background radiation from bomb tests have decreased to the point that there is no premium for pre-war scrap.