Slavoj Žižek & Srećko Horvat: After Capitalism? | DiEM25

Conversation between Slavoj Žižek and Srećko Horvat that was held on January 17, 2022, at the Philosophical Theater at the Croatian National Theatre in Zagreb. Original title of the conversation was "After Capitalism? Feudalism or Communism"
Nakon kapitalizma: feudalizam ili komunizam? Filozofski teatar, Hrvatsko Narodno Kazalište u Zagrebu (HNK)
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[@colorzeppelin]

Thank you for translating and captioning this video!

[@dsoldo1509]

Žižek, a turner who in 1991 took the lead in the privatization of socialist property in Slovenia. He is now a "leftist" ??? Žižek, who is trying to convince people with criticism of all the remaining socialist countries, in fact, that capitalism, with some changes, is the only possible system, that man is your hope ??? Especially when he vilely says that there are no workers' rights in China or anywhere else, but surprisingly he completely forgets his former homeland SFRY (socialist Yugoslavia) where workers systematically received the greatest rights in the history of mankind ??? That is not a relevant example for him ??? Probably because he took part in the overthrow of the SFRY, so it is a little embarrassing, even for him, to praise that country.

[@josiplilic3384]

Agree!Chris Hedges speaks more about ex country that Zizek himself!He has benefited from capitalism the most,but I think he's allways preferred Paris over Ljubljana.Same like Kusturica/same BS!

[@allendish]

Excellent work, Diem!! Thanks for presenting Zizek

[@krymz1]

I love how it's not in english [to "reach" a broader audience]. Reading makes it easier to understand or assimilate and it's much better hearing someone speaking more naturally instead of trying to find their words and struggling with pronunciation and grammar. and I'm not even english, though through the years it's *almost* as good as my first tongue. it also makes it feel more like all languages are as important and interesting as others. as a song I love says, "The limits of my language signify the limits of my world".

Žižek is speaking Croatian in Zagreb, Croatia.... and It is his foraign language like when he speaks in English. But ye, he can be easily read then listened:9

[@BrandonGates]

@ yeah but it was still Yugoslavia when Zizek was growing up so he’s probably been fluent in Serbo-Croatian is whole life. I’d assume it’s similar to Croatian used today, no linguistic here just a guess.

[@xirtus]

@ croatian is closer to slovenian than english but I take your point

@Žarko Komljenović Comment was edited, so in reply I just wanted to point out why would Slavko spoke English in Zagreb in front of Croatian audience.

[@brunovrancic8330]

Ljevica se ne mora baviti spašavanjem svijeta žrtvovanjem ekonomskog napretka. Nek se jednostavno bavi naplatom poreza. Kako je postalo normalno da kad stekneš određenu sumu novaca više ne moraš plaćati porez. To je vrlo jednostavno i nefilozofsko pitanje za borbu. Drugi jednostavni cilj je borba za zadržavanje nekad već dosegnutih radničkih prava, dakle, čak niti traženje novih, viših standarda. To nije filozofsko pitanje, a posla oko toga ima puno. Osim toga osiguranje jednakosti u obrazovanju, neupitna zdravstvena sigurnost, kao mjera humanosti. Mnogo jednostavnih i jasnih ciljeva borbe na kojima se može konkretno raditi, bez gubljenja energije na utopijska pitanja svjetskog socijalizma...

[@lastrockgod]

E to!!

[@sandyellis6068]

Thanks! Brilliant ✊

[@francesconicolo9644]

“I tako dalje, i tako dalje” is the new “and so on and so on”

[@saeedmhanna7002]

Fun challenge: try to guess what word in Croatian translate to "so on and so on" without translation.... it took me less than 5 minutes 😂

[@nourk4766]

Thank you for the translation!

[@benoitguillette8945]

Zizek once told a joke about Franjo Tudjman: “Tudjman and his large family in a plane above Croatia. Aware of the rumours that a lot of Croats lead miserable unhappy lives, while he and his cronies amass wealth, Tudjman says: 'What if I were to throw a cheque for a million dollars out of the window, to make at least one Croat, who will catch it, happy?' His flattering wife says: 'But Franjo, my dear; why don't you throw out two cheques for half a million each, and thus make two Croats happy? ' His daughter adds: 'Why not four cheques for a quarter of a million each, and make four Croats happy?' and so on, until finally, his grandson - the proverbial innocent youth who unknowingly blurts out the truth - says: 'But Grandpa, why don't you simply throw yourself out of the window, and thus make all the Croats happy?' Here we have it all: the indefinite signifiers approach the impossible limit by subdividing, like Achilles trying to catch up with the tortoise, then this endless series caught in the logic of 'spurious infinity' is totalized, closed, completed, by the fall of the body whose Real stands for the subject himself. Through the suicidal fall of his body, the subject does not 'include himself out' but, on the contrary, totalizes the series by, as it were, excluding himself in. The body here is literally the 'indivisible remainder' that fills in the gap of the endless division.” SLAVOJ ZIZEK, THE FRAGILE ABSOLUTE or, Why is the Christian legacy worth fighting for?, Verso, 2000, pp. 53-4

[@dsoldo1509]

Žižek, a turner who in 1991 took the lead in the privatization of socialist property in Slovenia. He is now a "leftist" ??? Žižek, who is trying to convince people with criticism of all the remaining socialist countries, in fact, that capitalism, with some changes, is the only possible system, that man is your hope ??? Especially when he vilely says that there are no workers' rights in China or anywhere else, but surprisingly he completely forgets his former homeland SFRY (socialist Yugoslavia) where workers systematically received the greatest rights in the history of mankind ??? That is not a relevant example for him ??? Probably because he took part in the overthrow of the SFRY, so it is a little embarrassing, even for him, to praise that country.

[@nemanjatrninic]

Bravo ljudi! 😁

[@StockAvuryah]

Would it be possible to have a transcript of the inaudible last 10min ?

[@barbarasimic7013]

Zizek zna sta se desava u Boloviji ali ne I u Srbiji? Pa kada bih doslo do teskog zagdenja u Srbiji brzo bih se prosirilo I na Sloveniju. Kakav Filosof pa stvarno? Zelena ideologija na racun Srbije svaka cast.

[@TheNatasaNaja]

Hvala! ✊🏼

[@dvegule920]

EXCELLENT!

[@adrianmacfhearraigh4677]

Interesting discussion in particular the section that discussed extractive behaviour no matter whether a state was capitalistic or socialistic. This is the dilemma even if a society wants to move towards socialism and address the ecological death spiral humanity currently finds itself in. In my view this is the product of humanity's alienation from Nature and our perception we're separate/independent from it when we're absolutely dependent upon it. Maybe a better description would be we're in relationship with it which should require us to care for it and it would reciprocate by caring for us. If we had this perception of ourselves our economics and accounting would change significantly to reflect this rather than the alienated separation economics and accounting that we currently apply. This alienated separation amplifies and empowers the concept of ownership because ownership bestows security from fear. Our current economics and accounting systems are designed and developed to reflect this and as a cure to this alienation. This cure of course is only received by those who own more and more resulting in alienating more and more from the same cure leading to higher and higher levels of insecurity while at the same time exploiting them to continue increasing their security from fear. This is simply extraction of security by the process of extraction from both Nature and those who are non-owners. This can only lead of course ultimately to an end state of insecurity following all extraction being exhausted. I believe this alienation has historically been propagated primarily via the accountancy system for centuries and exported from Europe during it's colonization ventures. When economics was developed it simply adopted and accepted this 'alienated soul' of accountancy. Extraction without replenishment therefore is interpreted as profit which in turn is the source of economic growth. Here in lies a huge contradiction if profit is synonymous with progress and development whereas in fact it is the product of extraction and produces depletion. This of course is the dynamic of Capitalism and will also be the dynamic of Socialism or any other -ism if profit continues to be the record of an extractive process born out of alienation from Nature. The only remedy I believe is to design and develop a system of accounting that records profit as the product of increased reciprocated caring within humanity and between humanity and Nature, a true record of progress and development and economic growth that is ecologically embedded resulting in humans and their communities being non-alienated from Nature.

[@michel-jeantailleur]

Slavoj's looking healthy these days... When he says at 06:56 "you have an idea, clear on the conceptual level... in order to see what this idea really implies, that's where theatre comes in, it's necessary to put it on stage, only that way you see the consequences". Seems to me not only to apply to 'philosophical theatre' but is the same point that Catholic theologians make about church.

[@shoof_5839]

Pozdrav iz Srbije kao veliki fan Žizeka i Hrvatske, kao i državnog udara u Boliviji

[@emirovich_]

Drugi put Žižeka za voditelja, i uživati u izlaganju Srećka Horvata

[@soleillspace]

Seems very similar to varoufakis ideas about techno-feudalism. Love to hear more talk on the idea that we are already post-capitalism and need to understand that before moving forward as I don't believe revolution alone is enough to overthrow the inequality in this much more complicated system than it used to be. That's why this is so important to have such talks .

[@nightoftheworld]

Lol, perfect audio difficulties at Zizek’s Hegelian pessimism point. Can someone translate what he said here? Not that I haven’t read him elaborate on it a hundred times.. light at the end of the tunnel is often another train coming / no guarantee of success / truth of radical contingency Thanks

Zašto je Žižek tako popularan? Jer ne daje nikakvo izvedivo rješenje.

[@davidguerra5237]

Can someone translate a bit what Zizek said when the audio failed please?

[@Mongooosa]

But what does he say at 1:25, I was very interested to read….

[@TuuguuSMD]

beautiful quiestion from red haired young man

[@nadiakaturic2876]

Does Jeremy Rifkin has the answers on Sreckos first important question for Slavoj Zizek here and some other crutial questions?

[@emirovich_]

Nije problem država - nacija, već nedovoljna primjena unuverzalnih vrijednosti i principa koji se fokusiraju na javni interes, tako da ideali za koje se zalaže Srećko, opet neće riješiti problem novih kriza koje nadilaze državu

[@michel-jeantailleur]

12:15 The crazy thing about this story is that she actually seems to have diligently manufactured the real product instead of, say, buying a dog and capturing some of those odours for mislabelling. As if she was operating on some kind of moral scale or with a genuine work ethic. By the way, I am also selling vials of my farts. So leave your number if you want me to get in touch. There are also recordings for sale.

[@NobuhikuObayashi]

❤️

[@paradxxicalkxrruptixn7296]

zizek be looking fresh

[@yongewok]

It nice to hear him speak in a language besides English, interesting to hear how these ideas sound in another language (anyone can tell me what language is it?)

[@DzorDzi83]

Serbo Croatian with slovene accent.

[@yongewok]

@@DzorDzi83 Thanks

[@bibabalaz5711]

Bravo zizek 👍

[@mjleger]

Instead of Hayek, it would be nice to hear Zizek discuss the book by Vadim Z. Rogovin 'Was There an Alternative? 1923-1927,' which discusses the Left Opposition against Stalin. It tends to undermine the view that the seeds of Stalinism were already present in Leninism. This much we do know. Where things would have gone cannot be known and could not be assessed independently of external factors either. Long live comrade Badiou!

[@thevulgarhegelian4676]

Zizek is look swav

[@iamtombh]

They're speaking Croatian? But Slavoj is Slovenian? So are the 2 languages mutually ineligible? Or Slavoj has learnt Croatian? If so, how good is his Croatian?

[@daroecrawford6971]

Croatian/Serbian/Bosnian are the same. Slovenia was part of Yugoslavia most of the 20th century. It's also close to all 3 of those countries. The languages (slovenian,croatian) also share some similarities.

[@ThePsycoDolphin]

He's also very multilingual. Can speak German too. Very clever bloke.

[@daroecrawford6971]

@@ThePsycoDolphin He very much is! It's also fascinating how nervous ticks happen less when he speaks Slovenian and the (i'll call them) ex- yugoslav languages/probably because he's more familiar with them.

[@Tonjevic]

Growing up in Yugoslavia as he did, it's very likely he had a good command of Serbo-Croat, which was the lingua franca of the country.

[@iamtombh]

@@Tonjevic Ahh I see, interesting. So he is indeed speaking good Croatian here then?

[@NizaanthNelson]

Wake up honey, new slavoj video just dropped. This time he talks about fart jars and so on.

[@yenaskitegar3140]

Geez, how many language does zizek speak

[@oscarlozanosalvatori444]

420 likes. nice.

[@vladimirolujic6637]

5:53 počinje

[@Strepite]

-izam ovaj -izam onaj. Sve se svodi na inherentnu ljudsku pohlepu i želju za moći i kontrolom drugih. Dakle i nakon kapitalizma, kapitalizam, u nekoj novoj formi i s drugim imenom.

[@damirkotoric]

Žižek looking like a hipster

[@CynicalBastard]

Omicron is a huge difference that displaces the whole previous field of research. [...]

[@CynicalBastard]

Oi. It's not a conspiracy to say that there is a major problem in the funding of these gain-of-function areas of research...clearly...and unequivocally, there are. [...]

[@GG-jj3hw]

Zao mi je sto mu Srecko nije dozvolio duze digresije :)

[@DV-dt9sq]

Pa ne znam da li se radi o neo-feudalizmu. Po mom mišljenju kapitalizam i nije ništa drugo nego feudalizam (zapravo iskreno mislim da je fašizam).

[@daroecrawford6971]

Koristio si 3 izraza da opišeš ovdašnji kapitalizam od kojih se možda 1 može aplicirati na njega. Svaka čast. Semantičkom gimnastikom ne možeš reć capitalism=fascism da ne pričam drugim načinima. Odvratan sistem, da. Fašizam, ne.

[@nightoftheworld]

Capitalism in its modern manifestation is just socialism for the rich-funded by the suffering and tax dollars of its precarious millions.

[@danielpetrovic7040]

Ovaj Diem pun para k'o varufakisova zena

[@user-zc1xn3re3j]

广义的剩余价值 抛开劳动价值论不说，我仍然可以通过法人制度实证存在广义的剩余价值。 我的观点很简单，法人制度导致了人类剥削的必然结果，剩余价值是人类博弈的必然结果。 所以，我的立论基础是基于博弈论的法人制度。 你不能否定博弈论，你就无法推翻我的观点。 你不能否认法人制度，你就不能否定人类之间的不平等，你就不能否定存在剩余价值。因为法人制度必然导致了资本家可以决定脑力劳动者和体力劳动者的劳动力价格，关键是资本家自己决定自己的劳动力价格。这是一个客观存在的事实。这是可以实证的。这可不是什么理论虚构的逻辑推理。 作为一个劳动者，资本家拒绝出卖自己的劳动力，从而拒绝承认自己存在雇主。只要资本家不出卖自己的劳动力，资本家就永远不可能变成雇员，就永远也不可能被自己的雇主作为法人剥削。 资本家深深的理解他人即地狱。 马克思是狭义的剩余价值，而我是广义的剩余价值。 什么是广义的剩余价值？ 神仙是不是宇宙的法人？ 哲学家和思想家，甚至于政治家，圣贤们是不是人类现实世界里的法人？ 神仙和哲学家、思想家、政治家们都不出卖自己的劳动力。但是，他们都是人类的主宰。他们都是人类世界的法人。所以，即使他们本人从来也没有积极主动的剥削人类。但是，极个别的人却可以通过假他们的名义剥削人类。 基于博弈论，人类处于囚徒困境之中。所有人不得不进行博弈。于是，人类互相博弈，于是，人类互相伤害并且互相剥削。 哲学家、思想家、政治家既剥削普罗大众，普罗大众也剥削哲学家、思想家、政治家。这是所谓的广义的囚徒困境。 圣贤们是不是劳动者？ 圣贤们有没有出卖自己的劳动力？ 如果圣贤们出卖了劳动力，谁拥有他们的劳动力？给了多少钱让他们为自己效劳？ 很显然，普罗大众没有给圣贤们任何佣金。注意:是佣金，而不是什么金钱。 不需要抬杠，事实胜于雄辩！普罗大众无论如何也不可能是雇佣圣贤的资本家（老板、雇主）！很显然，普罗大众剥削了圣贤。 同样，圣贤们通过法人制度，圣贤们也拥有人类世界至高无上的权力，他们不知不觉已经伤害了普罗大众的利益。 注意:剩余价值是双向的。不仅仅只是圣贤们剥削普罗大众。普罗大众也剥削圣贤。只不过，普罗大众是聪明反被聪明误。

[@brunovrancic8330]

Što se tiče USA, čitajte Daniela Sjursena.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Is this a plot to drive us all round the bend? Or is it just Slavoj? 🤥

[@CynicalBastard]

Anarchists don't (seem to) realise that there will be different factions, and because they will be different, they will make demarcations, borders, and thence, comes something that's tantamount to a state. [...] And this "closed neo-tribal" state Slavoj describes can be summed up as a 'business nationalism' and 'autarkism'.

[@randolphholmes8997]

❗ promosm

[@ValentinoVitez]

Surprising that the boy with a Serbian dialect opposes the party that created the modern Croatian state and the man that helped liberate us from Serbian hegemony. Quite surprising to see a Serbian intelectual criticise Croatia and advertise anarchy. While in Serbia he no doubt speaks on behalf of the Serbian superstate, from Tokyo to Madrid.

[@righter0o07]

wtf is happened to human racoon, zizek look like a human now

[@tracyharrison9536]

I'm enjoying this but I do wish he'd excuse himself to go blow his nose!!!

[@tracyharrison9536]

38:24 to 38:48. Exactement!!