Slinging a Cestrosphendone dart

This is my version of the cestrosphendone, an ancient sling-dart weapon from Macedonia.
slinging.org

[@leswoolmer66]

When I was about 9 years old, about 70 years ago, a gypsy family camped in a field close to my home. I spent many hours around their camp that summer and one day the father showed us how to make a war dart. He took a 2 in diameter branch and shaped it with his knife so it was about a foot long and bulbus at the front and tailing to about half inch with a cross shaped cut in the end. A sheet of folded newspaper formed the flights. A 3 foot length of thin string was the sling knoted and fitted into a slot cut just behind the bulbus front. He twirled it around his head and snapped back on the string and the dart flew about 150-200 yards. He told us that it was used in war thousands of years ago.

[@0713mas]

Ty for sharing Sir!

[@khakicampbell6640]

Great story!

[@hawaiisidecar]

Thanks for that.

[@andylongmore6697]

Shame you don't have a picture of the dart, it sounds brilliant

[@koningbolo4700]

that's why gypsies and their vehicles are torched at night nowadays...

[@JugglesGrenades]

If I was a medieval soldier, the very first piece of gear to be taken from the battlefield dead, would be a helmet. Seems there was a lot of sharp, pointy things falling from the sky.

[@conspiracyscholor7866]

It wasn't so much little pointing things falling but occasionally you'd face a people that would hurl large rocks or hammers at you.

[@hithere4719]

I heard a story about a lineman (electrical, not football) dude who took off his hard hat to wipe off sweat from his brow. He did that while under a pole being worked on. In that fragment of the work day a bolt fell and hit him right on the top of his head. He put his hard hat back on before the blood started flowing, and his knees started buckling. Imagine people intentionally hitting you with purpose-built weapons while also pouring chamber pots, dead animals, and boiling oil on you 😮 What kind of helmet do I need to protect me from rotten dogs and scalding pitch?

[@Validole]

​@@hithere4719one with a tungsten umbrella

[@SkeeterDunn]

David, you have the best how-to videos for some of the most obscure weapons i have seen. No fluff, no BS, just great information. Appreciated.

[@davidmorningstar]

Thanks!

[@bristolfashion4421]

I love it when geezers do have the inginuity and energy to bung stuff together and contemplate the past ! It is fab and gives us all food for thought. Thank you very much.

[@alonzocalvillo6702]

As a geezer myself I agree, I might add if it wasn’t for guys like him all this will be forgotten.BTW this is one weapon that I never knew about until today.

[@raybede]

This is fantastic. I admire you greatly for perfecting the mount and release of the dart. The distance attained is difficult to judge but looks 100 yard 'ish and with a pointy thing on the end would cause damage in the ranks. Thank you for furthering my education.

[@Eezyriderr1]

Looks like I'm about to step up my Lawn Dart game, boys!

[@joewoodchuck3824]

Hold onto them. They're no longer made.

[@willardroad]

Coolest Accidental Video Find of the Night award goes to this. Thanks for making this!

[@jeffyoung60]

This was fascinating to watch. Few people know about the use of war darts in the annals of military history. We're not referring to bar darts. War darts throughout history around the world measured anywhere between 12 inches (Roman plumbata or martiobarbuli) to the 7-feet darts thrown by wooden atlatls wielded by Upper Paleolithic hunters. The Aztecs widely used atlatls projecting specially designed 6 to 7 feet darts with obsidian points and feather fletching. The ancient Hawaiians threw a slim, all-wood dart of about six feet, more like a short javelin. The Romans themselves used several types of darts besides the late 3rd century plumbata, of which five were attached behind a legionary's shield. One Roman dart was a light, unfletched javelin, consisting of a 3-feet wood shaft and a one-foot iron shank with a small, diamond or leaf-shaped point. Another Roman dart was about 3.5 feet long, of similar construction, and carried in a quiver attached to a cavalry horse's saddle. After watching this fascinating video, I kept wondering whether the ancient Greeks were better off simply using slings. It took some time to prepare the dart for slinging. Loading a rounded stone into a fabric or leather pouch is faster. There is no question about the distance this homemade dart could fly. It seems to have been an 'area' weapon, that is, intended for hundreds of men to disperse darts high into the air and raining down on the packed Roman legionary formations with a shotgun type effect. There is little wonder why this ancient dart dispensing system was not widely used.

[@stevenfenster1798]

Flechettes.

[@sartec6292]

@@stevenfenster1798 If I saw one of those darts coming at me I'd definitely flechette myself. /S

[@aljotock]

Brilliant video Dave. Thank goodness there are still eccentric people like you about. Really enjoyed the video 👍🏼

[@TrondBrgeKrokli]

Nice. Functional, simple, and effective. That is the exact traits you would find in any historic sling, especially those used in warfare.

[@IronGoober]

Wow! That is probably the cleanest looking release of a c. dart that I've seen yet! Good stuff.

[@davidcolter]

Spinning the dart point first makes all the difference. I have tried various point-outwards methods and I hate them, I can feel the drag of the dart as I spin it and the fishtailing after the release robs even more velocity. Also, that first yaw when its flying forwards but pointing to the right causes a strong rightward drift that means it never flies to the point of aim.

[@victorhood3453]

Dude that thing is bad ass!! Thanks for sharing you knowledge and your time sir !

[@louisromerojr906]

Wow primitive technology never ceases to amaze me. Man love your channel

[@chrisparkes2179]

According to Carl Sagan's "Cosmos", Europe was on the brink of the industrial revolution in around 400AD but the religious authorities condemned the developments as "Satanic" and repressed science for another thousand years.

[@pisoiorfan]

I don't know if this is how they worked, but it is an excellent interpretation of a cestros sling

[@ghostdog912]

sheer genius. reconstructive engineering. well done!!!

[@vipguyschnorgi6629]

Very nice video. Thanks for the demonstration I was looking for this quite a wile. Looking forward for videos

[@mdtalhaansari1096]

All things considered, the scenery is breath taking.

[@raketoped663]

Your way is pretty cool, seems legit ancient to me. Thank you

[@bellat.1377]

It gives such a beautiful arc. Slings are awesome

[@mainerockflour3462]

Hence, the Shakespearian expression, "To suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." (Hamlet)

[@howardchambers9679]

The mild cigar from Henson and Bedges...

[@sunbladerr]

Thank you for your research and time. Be Well and Good Journey Richie

[@dannyfubar3099]

Very interesting, thank you for taking the time to share.

[@AsDeadAsDillinger]

When I was young we used to make darts from bamboo sticks (at least three or four times longer than the dart you show) We split the rear end of the bamboo and inserted several playing cards to form a sort of 'mortar bomb' style fin arangement and taped a two or three dud 'C' or 'D' cell type batteries around the nose for nose weights. We'd then cut a 1/16 to 1/8th inch deep notch into the bamboo stick in the rear third of it's length. *We used to throw them using a much simpler piece of string with just a knotted end.* When thrown in this manner, the darts would go much, much higher and many times further than could be thrown by hand alone. _To throw, the knotted end was placed along the notch, the string was then simply looped once around the stick then 'over' the knot and down along the bamboo to be held fast a little behind the nose._ You then threw the dart much as normal, _but in the split-second before it released, the string and notch would allow you to continue to apply acceleration to the dart for about a metre or so after the dart had left your hand_ (thus giving you a mechanical advantage of a broadly similar nature to that of an atlatl, _only instead of pushing, the string is pulling_ ) This allowed you to apply almost your whole body weight behind the throw and launch the dart with considerable force some very impressive distances. _We didn't twirl it around like a sling as you are doing however._

[@davidmorningstar]

Yes, this is a detaching amentum. You can also use a fixed amentum loop which is much shorter, just behind where you hold the spear. These were used for javelin throwing through all of antiquity until the age of gunpowder. The fixed loops were for military use and the detaching ones were for athletic competitions. In Greek it is called the ankyle.

[@jbuckley2546]

Mate, just made a very similar post and then read yours. We used to have battles with them with other kids from the estate. They were happy days, if you didn't lose an eye.

[@bobthedog3337]

We used to call them Dutch Arrows. I live in the UK. (I’m now known as ‘one-eyed-dog’. 😂😱)

[@oastie3]

Nice one. I’ve recently commented, in similar vein, about arrows we used to throw, as children.

[@wildatlanticman128]

Surprisingly effective. Thank you.

[@Phunny1]

This is great research and development!

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

I've never heard of this dart before. That's pretty damn cool!

[@llewinidas]

That is really something! Well done!

[@cyberherbalist]

Brilliant! Looking forward to seeing you doing accuracy casts!

[@johnc6738]

@tony baloney Was going to say the same thing. Volly fire depends on number not accuracy.

[@stirfrywok2927]

Thanks for this, seems like a great solution. Imagine dozens, or even hundreds of these flying at you. Would definitely scratch your scutum

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand , Love this awesome video very well done!

[@davidmorningstar]

Cheers! I love your channel of course

[@T3hJones]

Wow that flew way better then I had ever thought!

[@JohnSmith-il4wi]

Fantastic! Thanks from Chicago

[@olivvapor4873]

That release trigger is brilliant... ☺️

[@thomasrebotier1741]

There is no limit to the inventiveness of our species when it comes to war!

[@JJGuccione]

Sir, you nailed it - nothing shy of formidable.

[@eclipsearchery9387]

Hi David, we met 10 years or so ago at a bow making gathering. You were making a flatbow from beech if I remember correctly :) Good to 'see' you again haha! I've watched a few of your slinging videos and will be giving it a go myself.

[@davidmorningstar]

Wow! That would have been at Flag Fen or Butser I think. That bow came out nicely too. Have fun with your sling!

[@user-vu6wy1so6o]

This is what a genius looks like.

[@charlesprokopp276]

Now there's something that should catch Tod Cutler's eye!

[@oldbatwit5102]

Have you seen Tod's videos on the plumbata?

[@classixdrummer]

In a word, brilliant!

[@MrBilld75]

For an "attempt", I'd say that's excellent! The slow mo really tells the tale, it flies straight and true on the release, very cool.

[@jaydubbyuh2292]

Outstanding my good man.!

[@brettridings5594]

I don't know why this was suggested to me but great video Dave I actually really loved it!!

[@davidmorningstar]

Thanks! Most of my channels views come from KZbin suggestions. I get a lot from strategy video games like Rome Total War because they have slingers in.

[@brettridings5594]

@@davidmorningstar I don't think I even searched anything related to this, youtube was like "hey want to watch an interesting video on days" and I was like ya know what, yes I do. And I was not disappointed, I never could've figured out how to come up with anything close to that

[@chrisparkes2179]

@@brettridings5594 Somehow KZbin took my searches for the 1981 Addams Family movie trailer, the Fishhead Song and Father Ted and suggested this. And I'm very glad it did.

[@luxvalet7155]

Excellent work sir

[@0713mas]

Love this channel

[@jacktribble5253]

Excellent work.

[@paulmietty7643]

Thank s for The very Interesting demonstration.

[@patrickus2377]

beatifully filmed

[@davidmorningstar]

Thank you! This is actually my first attempt at talking to the camera and editing together a proper short film to explain something. I did another two and got better with each one.

[@MrSpinteractive]

Very nice - thanks for the video!

[@joemattox7525]

Here in the states, we call those lawn darts and use them against each other and ourselves. Lol jk

[@WhoThisMonkey]

Lawn darts tend to be longer and wider, also they are more front heavy.

[@ElementofKindness]

I'm old enough to remember when lawn darts were still lawn darts, with an aluminum point.

[@johnbattista9519]

@@WhoThisMonkey , he’s joking.

[@WhoThisMonkey]

@@johnbattista9519 Go away. You don't understand what a joke is. His 'joke' was about using lawn darts on his peers. My comment wasn't related to that, it was related to his use of the name 'lawn darts.' Seriously, illiterate people have to be one of the worst parts of KZbin comments.

[@JasonKifner]

I could see this being very effective in battle.

[@Oxnate]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.

[@belliott538]

Bloody Outstanding!!!

[@mattwesty6966]

You sir are amazing

[@palarious]

I'm trying to imagine how the inventor's tribe must have reacted to the mad lad who figured out how to turn a sling into a bow like weapon.

[@alonzocalvillo6702]

Yeah, they probably said something like " it'll never work"

[@maskcollector6949]

I'd like to think a kid invented all the sling weapons.

[@ranchopatriot]

Excellent! Reading that portion of Polybius right now.

[@myperspective5091]

👍🙂👍 That was one I haven’t seen before.

[@oastie3]

David. You directed me here, following my comment about throwing arrows, in one of your slinging videos. The setup we used was simpler than yours, in that we used a single length of string with one knot in it. This was tensioned along the shaft of an 18" - 2’ flighted arrow. The string was wrapped around the throwing hand, which also gripped the arrow head and the action was an over arm throw. The opposite end of the string was held in place by looping it round the shaft, in a notch below the flight, and over the knot. The string effectively lengthened your throwing arm. Not sure, now, what kind of distances we achieved but they were far beyond our unassisted capabilities. Maybe you could test this out and compare distance, accuracy etc. I don’t think a short arrow would be much good as the length of the string is the force multiplier and this is governed by the length of the projectile. Nice videos, by the way.

[@user-xe6xe9sp6x]

Nigel thorpe'our throwers were very simler to yours we used length s of dowel cards for flights n wire wrapped near the point length of string one groove near flights n hours of fun the boys just come out in me time to play again throwers n gadders

[@oastie3]

@@user-xe6xe9sp6x sounds very similar. Great fun.

[@Polymerbob]

When I was a kid, we called those "lawn darts".

[@FingerAngle]

Very cool set up. I'd be interested it trying it with Trebuchet, and Staff Sling. I shoot darts out 400 meters with Trebuchet.

[@jebjeb7770]

Fantastic!

[@AlaskanInsights]

lawn darts were so much fun.

[@scottydees2748]

Great job. Thanks.

[@fins59]

No sheep were harmed in the making of this video.

[@kenquid8091]

Thank God we never knew about these when we were kids. Half of us wouldn't be here today if we did lol. It was bad enough being chased home and shot at with a BB gun or chased thru the woods by one of your "mates" with a catapult lol

[@alioshahand8040]

We did, just had make shift versions using crushed bottle caps as arrow heads. We just didn't die lol or we did and there was no FB around to tell everyone

[@amazinggrace5692]

We had lawn darts to kill family and friends with. Worked well. With enough baby boomers in the streets, chances are a errant dart would hit someone. I’m interested in all the knots. 💕🐝🇺🇸

[@jamesburnett7085]

Superior quality production. Your instruction is always excellent, with great camera work.

[@123edwardzpad]

Thank you, very much.

[@volp5502]

Awesome!!

[@stevewakefield1493]

Yes, like the chap below. Length of straight round tree branch. Dart flight stuck in one end and tied in. The tip of the dart at the front. A groove towards the rear. A length of string with a know. Wrap it and sling it. Happy days.

[@numberzero7193]

That is really cool

[@e4d578]

No wonder this weapon never changed the course of a war....

[@18mtoo]

I've just watched it again because it is so interesting, the sling illustrates that concept of asymmetric battle and how ideas travel (or not) . I was wondering how many other sling setups did you try for the dart and could you show how the idea evolved to this end.

[@davidmorningstar]

My first version was attached to the tail, this gave a very poor release with the dart fishtailing wildly and flying to a different point of aim from conventionally slung stones. I abandoned this and went to the mid attachment point, this was immediately much better kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zp6whoKQj6d3q7s

[@shanedude91]

@@davidmorningstar would it be possible to combine this dart design with a fustibalus?

[@davidmorningstar]

@@shanedude91 I have, it didn't work very well. The dart does not have time to stabilise during the short throw arc and so it fishtails wildly after launch, losing a lot of energy to drag. It was also quite a handful when reloading.

[@shanedude91]

@@davidmorningstar ah, that makes sense. Cool channel BTW, just discovered it

[@badcampa2641]

Nice well done thx for sharing

[@thelockpickinglebowski633]

Lawn darts were fun.

[@zwillenfink9729]

wow, very interesting😊👍

[@greenjack1959l]

Have a look at Tods Workshop, there's a video on there all about the various ancient war darts, including how to launch a plumbata with a staff sling. Very impressive, but I do like your take on the Cestros.

[@davidmorningstar]

His videos on war darts directly inspired me to go out and film this.

[@robertkerr9527]

Some think primitive people were, well, simple and primitive. But ancient technology at times was incredibly detailed and extremely practical. Granted, this dart is not the pyramids. But still highly effective by accomplishing a lot using very little based on physical principles we better understand today 👍.

[@dreamdiction]

Europeans were never primitive, for that you need to visit Africa today.

[@robertkerr9527]

Lol. Such arrogance. I live in Switzerland and you should see some of my neighbors. Simply barbaric!

[@bobe5710]

Impressive! Wouldn't want that coming at me.

[@SteveWhipp]

Very interesting.

[@ammarshamali3565]

You are a smart man

[@infoscholar5221]

Here in the US in the 1970s, kids called them "Lawn Darts." But they were much more deadly.

[@davidgraemesmith1980]

The lawn darts of the 70's were basically Roman war darts which were probably based on these things, apparently the Romans threw them by hand 🤔

[@feellucky271]

Jarts.

[@TimpaLinkosling]

Good fly!

[@mazdaman1286]

Someone well practised, strong and with a heavy sharp pointed dart could seriously ruin your day.

[@midisax]

Brilliant

[@garynaccarato4606]

Like the stone sling it would have most likely taken quite a bit of practice in order to use it effectively but this is still a pretty cool little weapon.

[@hamasmillitant1]

very cool, i believe the greeks used a sling for some types of javalin also its also described as being wrapped around shaft, i wonder if they also had a peg because ive tried to replicate it a few times with just cord and it seemed to not add much power for stuff around, but it would work with a peg like a australian spearthrower you woundnt use a traditional sling action for it ofc because of how long it is

[@davidmorningstar]

I have two very old videos of me throwing with fixed and detaching cords. Amentum is the Latin name, Ankyle is the Greek name. Look for 'Slo-mo Javelin 01' and '02'

[@Anvilbanger]

Interesting solution. I would have gone with something like an atlatl. As a boy in Guatemala I watched Mayas poach birds and small game with a bamboo atlatl throwing stones, clay pellets, or cane darts.

[@chrisntheboat]

A different camera angle would of been nice to be able to see them fly.. The sky obscured the bolts.

[@davidmorningstar]

It is very challenging to catch small fast objects on video. I used the sky to silhouette the darts because they werent showing up against the background.

[@chrisntheboat]

@@davidmorningstar I understand. Thank you for the instructive videos.

[@pauloinventostube7533]

great information 👍👈 success there family 🤝

[@gulfair-cavalry-tango1011]

Would like to see some video of impacts, on for example water filled plastic jugs.

[@myperspective5091]

Something related Interesting. There is a group that wants to sling or synthetically launch small rockets into orbit. They have already demonstrated a small version of their launcher. Their rockets would still have rocket propellant, but the centrifugal launcher would launch the rocket about halfway into orbit. The other half would be done with rocket propellant.

[@davidmorningstar]

Yes I saw that, it seems pretty crazy. Technically feasible but I don't see anyone buying into it.

[@rokasbalciunas8058]

Ingenious approach! Would the peg work even better if it was more conical?

[@GetMeThere1]

Change the tip to sharpened steel with a bit of frog skin poison on it, and you'd have something!

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Imagine if this was on a staff the speed and energy one could build?

[@nacholibre1962]

David, could I encourage you to invest in a collar microphone so we can hear what you're saying above the surrounding noise? It would help tremendously. Rode make a very good and economical one. That said, well done on an excllent and entirely workable approximation of the sleing used over 2000 years ago. Very clever!

[@davidmorningstar]

I bought a directional mic after making this video, my staff sling and Balearic sling videos have much better sound.

[@ArminHirmer]

interesting!

[@voornaam3191]

That Cestrosphendone is a great name. All English speakers know it, because it is the third word todlers learn. Mama, dada, Cestrosphendone!

[@unblockme4178]

Great video and the comment about gypsy family was also great. I would love if you would reply to that comment and explain how that sling might have worked.

[@davidmorningstar]

I don't know how that would have worked, unless the string was permanently attached and flew with the dart.

[@marcopothuizen]

Interesting channel. Subscribed. (Next time please aim at traffic. That background noise does not belong in the video)

[@davidmorningstar]

I bought a directional mic after making this video, it has improved the sound a lot.

[@18mtoo]

Well done, top drawer stuff. I don't know how many slingers there are. What do you think about a big conflab and competition for distance and accuracy and such? More power to you...

[@JamesJones-cx5pk]

That's looks lethal. Put a Rage broadhead on it.