SLOVENIA | The Tragic Case of Yugoslavia's 'Erased'

In June 1991, Slovenia declared independence from Yugoslavia, prompting a ten-day war with forces of the Yugoslav People's Army, the JNA. Months later, the Slovenian Government announced that all Yugoslavs wishing to stay in the country had to apply for Slovenian citizenship. While the vast majority of them did so, over 25,000 failed to meet the deadline. Several months later, they were deleted from Slovenia's record of permanent residents, thereby losing all their social, economic and political rights. Thirty years later, many of them - a group known as the 'Erased' - are still fighting for redress and/or compensation.
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While many think that Slovenia avoided the brutal conflicts that befell Yugoslavia, this doesn't mean that it left the Federation without controversy. Its decision to impose a very tight deadline for Yugoslavs living in the country to apply for Slovene citizenship left 25,617 people - Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims), Kosovo Albanians, Macedonian, Montengrins and Roma, amongst others - as foreigners in the country when they failed to apply in time. Over the following decades successive efforts were made to try to resolve the situation, with little success. Despite calls from the Constitutional Court to act, the Government refused to do so. In the end, the matter went before the European Court of Human Rights. However, while the issue is now considered closed, many thousands are still trying to gain compensation three decades later.
CHAPTERS
0:00 Introduction and Titles
0:45 Secession and the Question of Citizenship
1:40 Geographic and Demographic Background to Slovenia
2:27 Slovenia's History and Independence from Yugoslavia
4:36 The Issue of The Erased in Slovenia
7:03 Efforts to Address the Status of the Erased
9:08 The Erased before the European Court of Human Rights
11:27 The Erased in Slovenia
RELATED PLAYLISTS
Current Issues and Disputes • CURRENT ISSUES AND DIS...
South East Europe and the Balkans • SOUTH EAST EUROPE
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FURTHER READING & USEFUL SOURCES
Amnesty International Report "The Erased" (2005) www.amnesty.org/download/Docu...
Kurić and Others vs Slovenia (2014) www.llbrlex.com/wp-content/up...
Constitutional Court Decision (1999) www.us-rs.si/selected-decisio...
Slovenia's Letter to the Council of Europe (2016) rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonS...
Izbrisana (Erased) Trailer [LINK]
Interview with Izbrisana Writer/Director, Miha Mazzini • Miha Mazzini - Why I w...
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KEYWORDS
#Slovenia #Yugoslavia #TheErased
#InternationalPolitics #CurrentAffairs #InternationalRelations
#Secession #Statehood #Independence
#InternationalLaw #InternationalHistory #HumanRights
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[@JamesKerLindsay]

This was one of the lesser known issues surrounding the break up of Yugoslavia. However, it raises some important questions that often arise in cases of independence and secession: who should be allowed to become citizens? It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of Slovenes about this. Or those from elsewhere in the region? And are there any parallels elsewhere? On another note, I have now opened up channel memberships. If you would like to help support the channel, please do consider joining. For a small monthly fee it can really help build and develop the channel. Thank you. kzbin.infojoin

[@mouniash]

It's quite similar to what happened to ethnic Russians in the Baltics. What I find disappointing is that the EU just ignires these cases. After all Slovenia and the Baltic states are all EU members. And the EU loves to harp on "values "

[@mouniash]

@@ems7623 About the EU it seems, to me that when they want to criticize a country ad nauseum for some human rights abuse or other it does so; and when it wants, to close its eyes it does so.

[@janp7927]

Hello, James, I am Slovenian and I have already written a comment, but I didn't notice that you are looking for the thoughts of Slovenians :) The general opinion is that many of the Yugoslavian people that lived here were "too proud" to apply for citizenship, despite having 6 months to contemplate. Many actually thought that the Yugoslavian armade will return and deal with the seperatists (vratičemo se/we will return). There were people that didn't knew and not all were counter independence, so I think the authority could have conducted an inquest back in the mid-late 90's and granted rights to people that didn't work counter independence or conduct criminal activity. My grandmother, for example, was born in present day Croatia and my family was aware of the legislation call. I think that the main victims of this misunderstanding were the innocent children that were deprived of education.

[@thatisme3thatisme38]

@@mouniash as with other states the EU has its own interests to consider. It is called pick your fights. It is not all powerful

[@mouniash]

@@thatisme3thatisme38 LGBT rights on Hungary and Poland is certainly worth the fight in their eyes

[@bernardbadrov7712]

My father is from Bosnia. When Slovenia became independent he got slovenian citizenship without asking for it. The state of Slovenia obviously checked him good because after more than 40 years he got his real bearth date that was switched with someone else back. In ex YU nobody cared about that mistake. He also told me about people telling him they don't beleave in Slovenia as independent state like "Slovenia is small, it won't last..." and DIDN'T WANT Slovenian documents! After some time they changed their mind..... So this isn't black and white storry

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@timbieYT]

look you weren't ereased they gave them time to make a new identety if you didn't it was your own problom and(you said slovenia won't last)bosnia has two goverments that hate each other and would you rather live in a broken yugoslavia drowning in debt?

[@jozebutinar44]

slovenia is small becouse of yougoslavia give away a loot of our land to other countrys

[@timbieYT]

@@jozebutinar44 true

[@fifi23o5]

Exactly. Nothing is completely white or black. Obviously, your father had his papers in order, his residence legal, so he got citizenship as he should. If he accepted it, fine with me, if he didn't, it is his choice. Anyway, he was a part of our society, he was legal, for me he is welcome. but some people didn't have their status legal, some speculated too much, some were just too sloppy to get their status legal.. And it was quite an easy process. In effect, it was mostly their own fault. Greetings and I hope you and your parents are doing well!

[@taurondur]

Im from Slovenia and i was partly erased! My mother was from Croatia and i didn"t even know that i was officially Croat, till the day i went to make a Slovenian passport. Then they told me that i was not Slovenian even when lived my whole life in Slovenia. It was such a absurd situation that i passed three times illegally the border between Italy and Slovenia by the forest, since i had only a Yugoslavian passport, which was very bad at the time and you could"not travel whit it around Europe. At the end i had a luck, because my sister is a judge and she resolve all situation..

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I’m really glad you managed to sort it out. It really was an absurd and tragic situation. I also find it rather disturbing that there are people who still try to defend a policy that has been judged to be contrary to basic human rights law by Slovenian courts and the European Court of Human Rights. There have been lots of comments on this video saying that it served people right, that they were traitors, etc. As you made clear, that just isn’t the case.

[@janeausten6584]

After 1991, the Slovenian state did not experience partial erasure. Citizenship in the former Yugoslavia was always dual: republican and Yugoslav, i.e. in Slovenia Slovenian and Yugoslav. Of course, the passport was Yugoslav, because the republics of the former Yugoslavia were not countries, but only federative units - the full name of Yugoslavia was SFRJ (Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia). you don't say when, in what period it happened - if it happened at all? I repeat once more: everyone who had a permanent residence in the Republic of Slovenia at the time of Slovenia's independence could apply for Slovenian citizenship (if, of course, they did not already have Republic of Slovenian citizenship). The application (fee) to obtain it cost less than two beers. No one discriminated against anyone, everyone in their right mind and capable of doing business (!) would of course do their best for something so simple. It is known that before the independence of Slovenia, immigrants - economic migrants from other republics of the former Yugoslavia - did not have Slovenian republican citizenship. Of course, they had the citizenship of the republic from which they came, for example. Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, etc. I emphasize that no one forced economic migrants from various parts of Yugoslavia to come to Slovenia, which really was another Switzerland for the other republics during Yugoslavia. Now I have enough teaching on this subject.

[@janeausten6584]

Slovenska država po letu 1991 ni poznala delnega izbrisa. Državljanstvo v bivši Jugoslaviji je bilo vedno dvojno: republiško in jugoslovansko, torej v Sloveniji slovensko in jugoslovansko. Seveda je bil potni list jugoslovanski, ker republike bivše Jugoslavije niso bile države, ampak samo federativne enote - poln naziv Jugoslavije je bil SFRJ (Socialistična federativna republika Jugoslavija), Ker delnega izbrisa ni moglo biti, izbris je bil lahko samo v celoti, poleg tega ne poveš, kdaj, v katerem obdobju se je to zgodilo - če se je sploh zgodilo? Ponavljam še enkrat: vsi, ki so imeli v času osamosvojitve Slovenije stalno bivališče v Republiki Sloveniji, so lahko zaprosili za slovensko državljanstvo (če seveda že niso imeli republiškega slovenskega državljanstva). Vloga (taksa) za pridobitev je stala manj kot dva piva. Nihče ni nikogar diskriminiral, vsak pri zdravi pameti in poslovno sposoben (!) bi se za nekaj tako enostavnega seveda potrudil. Ve se, da slovenskega republiškega državljanstva do osamosvojitve Slovenije niso imeli priseljenci - ekonomski migranti iz drugih republik bivše Jugoslavije. Imeli pa so seveda državljanstvo republike, iz katere so prišli npr. srbsko, hrvaško, bosansko itd. Poudarjam, da ekonomskih migrantov iz raznih krajev Jugoslavije nihče ni silil priti v Slovenijo, ki je res bila za časa Jugoslavije za ostale republike druga Švica. Zdaj imam na to temo dovolj poučevanja.

[@Histra]

It's shameful that you didn't know what you were and that you didnt know difference between Slovenia and Croatia!!!!!!!!

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@janeausten6584]

Vsak, ki je imel ob razpadu Jugoslavije stalno bivališče v Sloveniji, je lahko zaprosil za državljanstvo. Državljanstva so bila v bivši Jugoslaviji dvojna: republiško in jugoslovansko. Nihče ni postavljal leta 1991 nobenih pogojev za pridobitev državljanstva, razen bivališča. Nobena druga država ni dajala državljanstva na tak lahek način. Neznanje ob pridobitvah pravic kot je državljanstvo ne opravičuje nikogar. Vsak je imel možnost seznaniti se s tem, da mora samo vložiti prošnjo, ki bo avtomatsko odobrena. Ne glede na narodnost, jezik, delovni status in ostale osebne okoliščine. Vsa javnost je bila glede tega obveščena v vseh medijih: časopisi, TV, radio, na vseh upravnih in državnih organih. V 21. stoletju zna verjetno vsak brati, če ne zna, pa zna poslušati in vprašati… Evropsko sodišče za človekove pravice nikoli ni bilo seznanjeno z dejanskimi okoliščinami v Sloveniji leta 1991.

[@Histra]

kot vidim so komunistični slovenci že spremenili dejstva in razloge. Vsekakor se strinjam s teboj. Na bruhanje mi gre, ko sedaj sprevačajo, še bolj pa ko tujci sodijo in komentirajo, ko pojma nimajo kaj in kako.

[@BCERTA]

In tocno tako je bilo. Vsak ki je zelel pridobiti drzavljansto je to lahko naredil. Moj Stric po rodu Srb, rojen v Beogradu je nemudoma zaprosil za drzavljanstvo in ga tudi brez kakrsnega koli problema pridobil.... ne poznam vseh primerov, vendar, ce si je clovek zelel drzavljanstva, ga je tudi brez problema dobil... seveda, ce je imel stalno prebivalisce v sloveniji. tako da prosim lepo....

[@lukapotocnik6995]

Oprostite, ampak v primeru moje družine ni bilo ravno tako. Moj oče je dal vlogo za mojo takrat 5-letno sestro na uradni organ. Gospa, ki je opravljala delo na okencu takrat, je vlogo prikrila brez naše vednosti. Moja starša sta izvedela, da ima neustrezne dokumente, saj sta se odpravila na obisk v Srbijo preko meje z Madžarsko, saj je bila na Hrvaškem vojna. Temu je sledil ponoven obisk uradnega organa in konkretna pritožba. Moja sestra je po tem pridobila ustrezne dokumente in državljanstvo, ampak je dogodek razkril vzdušje takratnega časa.

[@tomaz3052]

I was around nine years old when this was happening. Even at that age i knew that some people now callled the "erased" did not want slovenian passport. They were counting on yugoslavian army to win. They lost and then they start playing the role of victims. The passports were ridiculously cheap to get. Anyone who wanted it was able to afford one!

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@Histra]

They were wiped out because they refused to accept Slovenian citizenship and thus did not recognize Slovenian independence!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thus is not true. Some did not accept it. But many others were understood to have been illegally deprived of it.

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

Even if they didn't recognise independence 30 days to comply or lose your statehood is not how citizenship works.

[@MihaMarkelj]

@@JamesKerLindsay how can you claim such a thing without providing reliable documents on which you based your opinion

[@davidv89955]

@@JamesKerLindsay sadly your comment is not what happened. they refused citizenship because they thought the independce wouldnt last..after some time they got it and they still live in slovenia..refusing to learn language and thinking they still live in 1980 yugoslavia.

[@Janezslovenski]

This is a video made from one perspective, the perspective that won in the courts. I'm part of a younger generation of Slovenes and so I am not entirely familiar with the matter, however it is undeniable that some people flat out refused to comply to Slovenian law and gov't which encouraged them to set their status in order, either a foreigner or a citizen. This was done because some were against an independent Slovenia and believed it will soon be reintegrated into Yugoslavia. I am sure it wasn't done correctly though and that human rights were violated for some people in some way. But I am sick of hearing the erased and their sympathisers talk about them being nothing but victims with dumb excuses (didn't know it mattered or that it was neccessary lol) and them saying Slovenian government was evil. Many foreigners integrated just fine and got the citizenship or remained citizens of other states and continued to work here, while a few haven't. Think about that and try to explain why a small portion of those people would be discriminated against purposefully.

[@HalfLifeHalfDead]

That last question is for your government to answer, not anyone else. Whether or not human rights were violated has been established in court, those courts being both Slovenian and the ECHR. What you wrote is literal victim shaming, and it's both laughable and despicable.

[@Janezslovenski]

@@HalfLifeHalfDead Just because a court ruled something, it doesn't make it true. It's just what the court thinks is true based on the evidence and arguments presented - see OJ Simpson trial.

[@gajjc6743]

It's not shaming anyone. If you disregard the law and due process and not act while you have the capacity to do so, that is your decision. Not victim. All that was said is that there are actual victims in this case, and entitled rebels, whose play didn't work out. Also, as far as I'm aware ethnicity and place of birth weren't a factor for being erased. Lots of it was technical fck ups on the side of the government. Which is 100% believable living here. And the main human rights violation wasn't really that people were 'erased', but that it's a fucking disgrace at how long the governments needed to even start addressing it and finding a sollution. Which in Slovenia, again, isn't necessarily discrimination at any specific group of people; seeing how the same is true for ANY necessary public infrastructure project, or reform. It's not active discrimination, like the British occupying N Ireland; but more likely people not caring to do their jobs. Again, living in Slovenia this shit is obvious. And smug outside comments amount to about ... all 😉 Please check the regions of Carinthia and Friuli-Venezia-Giulia for better references on human rights violations and tell me why I never, not once hear about them in the west. Then you can maybe start discussing victim blaming with Slovenes. Untill then, keep your ignorance in your own sandbox, and don't pollute actual conversations.

[@milanlabus1582]

well the referendum passed 94% so not only were the Slovenian government evil so were 94% of the entire population, but massive massive respect to those 6%, its not easy to take a stand for human right when everyone around you isn't

[@lukazupie7220]

@@HalfLifeHalfDead i guess government says they didnt discriminate and i see no explanation how they did? Do you?

[@arminxvs3372]

Wow I have never heard this story. Really interesting case. Thanks for the video!

[@ProudRegressive]

Milosevic: We don't care about Slovenia independence. They have very few Serbs for me to care about. Slovenia: Few Serbs? Yes, yes, we'll get on that.

[@user-pn7jz9vr2z]

Very true

[@kosarkosar7683]

Milosevic wanted to show the other republics how strong his army was, but he did not expect such strong resistance. He lived in Serbian propaganda that Serbs were above all others and underestimated the determination of other nations for a better life. At that time, he wanted to persuade Kučan not to arm himself and wait, just so that he would have time to prepare for the fall and the replacement of the newly elected government in the first democratic elections in Slovenia. However, in Slovenia Kučan had practically no influence on the events, he even disarmed the republic's territorial defense where the Slovenes were, so that the new army would not get weapons from them. Reason and experience with nationalists from the Balkans prevailed in the Slovenian government, and they did not fall prey to such manipulations.

[@kosarkosar7683]

@Franjo Grandovec Thank you for your kind words.

[@Kitties_are_pretty]

Perhaps a video on Finlandization? Or a video on the unusual form of the Lebanese government, how it internally Balkanized, and the effects of that system?

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks so much. Brilliant suggestions. I would love to do a video on Lebanon. I went many years ago, just after the civil war. It was absolutely fascinating. (I also had many Lebanese friends while living in Cyprus. So I got a lot of stories from them.)

[@crixusthenorman1603]

My father was from Lendava Slovenia. I've been wanting to visit there for awhile now and plan to do so in the near future. The stories I was told about my grandfather's involvement in the war was nothing short of amazing and shocking.

[@Q_QQ_Q]

Who are Yugoslavs ?

[@cosac6]

@@Q_QQ_Q that’s right, nationality Slovenian, citizenship Yugoslav.

[@MyF4nt4s13s]

@@Q_QQ_Q theyre the people who lived in Yugoslavia

[@uporabn1k]

I had 3 neighbors. 1st an ethnic Serb. Cool guy. He came back from administration unit joking that he bought citizenship for a sack of potato. 2nd also ethnic Serb. He was running up and down the street at the beginning of war while MIGs were flying overhead and scream from the top of his lungs that his people are coming and that they will all rape our mothers. He wussed out and got the citizenship too. After he burned his officer uniform. 3rd guy was an ethnic Slovene. Old dude. He and his brother were, as kids, deported to Serbia during WW2 by the Germans. Just for the sake of it they went to check, and sure enough because of that deportation they would almost have been erased as old documents pointed out they are serbs. They also got citizenship. Do with this information whatever you want. IMO certain people just didn't want to admit that whatever Belgrade says is the law anymore and expected special treatment. And now they scream bloody murder. Unfortunately some innocent underage kids also got caught in the crossfire because of that.

[@ivantrajkovic2429]

Laz ! (LAY !!! )

[@koalabear1984]

@@ivantrajkovic2429 lay where

[@steretsjaaj2368]

My dad's side of family was in the same boat, expelled to SR during war. They have a community (drustvo) now, they meet every now and then

[@naysayer8052]

now imagine how many of became serbs.. serbs are kvazination, made from vlahs, bulgars and croats... they took croatian language and mixed it with bulgarian... they were part of kingdom of croatia, same as slavonia, dubrovnik and dalmatia...

[@LobotimirMerkanski]

@@naysayer8052 lol, imagine Slovenians or Croats aren't mixed.

[@janp7927]

I don't understand what is the problem here to be honest and I'm not certain that you have all the information. The Slovenian authority passed legislation calling to all Yugoslavian citizens living in Slovenia to apply for citizenship as you have said in the video. That means that they had about 6 months and many didn't want to gain citizenship because a) they thought that the Yugoslavian Armade will return to Slovenia and ''deal'' with the seperatists b) They didn't want to have papers of a country that a bird crosses in one swing. + I don't see any reason to give citizenship to soldiers that fought against independence - it makes no sense :)

[@boruttrost5750]

You are obviously convinced that you know more about legal matters than the Slovenian Constitutional Court and the European Court of Human Rights combined. Congrats on your self-confidence.

[@janp7927]

@@boruttrost5750 Don't go ad hominem on me, Borute...just explain me the problem :) I have said that I don't understand...

[@boruttrost5750]

@@janp7927 Oh, sorry. I just assumed you would have an idea of what the problem was after watching this video. You can also read the rulings by the Slovenian Constitutional Court and by the European Court of Human Rights if you want to understand the issue. I love the vocative case :)

[@janp7927]

@@boruttrost5750 So... european convention on human rights... violation of: (8) Right to respect for private and family life, (13) Right to an effective remedy, (14) Prohibition of discrimination... It seems that these violations are more less or a result of not having a citizenship, not about not having an option to apply or lack of infos... Wasn't there an option to gain citizenship of their native countries? The erased innocent children of those people are a sad story indeed. Ps. I have enough of this topic, have a nice Sunday.

[@boruttrost5750]

​@@janp7927 Sorry, you can't ask me a question and then say you've had enough of this topic before I can answer ;) In case you want to return to this topic sometime in the future: "It seems that these violations are more less or a result of not having a citizenship" - Slovenia didn't have the right to violate those people's rights in any way it pleased, just because they didn't have/didn't want to get Slovenian citizenship. Even though they didn't have citizenship, they still had some rights in Slovenia, according to Slovenian and international law. That's the gist of the whole issue and of the courts' rulings. Do you understand that? "Wasn't there an option to gain citizenship of their native countries?" - That doesn't matter from a legal point of view.

[@sportomanokin]

Slovenia is been taking care for ex Yugoslavian republics financially, donations, employing, accepting refugees and 100 thousands of migrants in the last 70 years, working visas for EU or any other way. Enough is enough. Balkan and other thirds world countries should get a grip and finally start taking care of themselves. Stop always relying on someone third to take care of you and your problems. Slovenia (less than 2 million people) produced almost 40% of economic power in Yugoslavia (23 million people) and all this money went to Belgrade (capitol). I hope you got a full picture now.

[@alexmood6407]

Rubbish. When Yugoslavia was established Slovenia was a poor Austrian backwater. It thrived in Yugoslavia because it had access to cheap labour and cheap resources. Any economist will tell you that most developed parts of any country benefit more than the poor despite the financial transfer from rich to poor.

[@bojanstare8667]

@@alexmood6407 You have to go to school again. Your history knowlidge is so poor...

[@alexmood6407]

@@bojanstare8667 really? If you would know me you would know how wrong you are.

[@bojanstare8667]

@@alexmood6407 OK, enlighte me, please. Maybe Idon`t have all the information.

[@BiharyGabor]

@@bojanstare8667 Maybe you don't, apparently. Would you please cite your sources? Any serious work on economic history that supports your position?

[@cosac6]

Slovenian people have very strong feelings about Slovenian nationality because Slovenia was always invaded by all sorts of people because Slovenia is like an intersection of Europe, the armies moved and occupied Slovenia constantly.

[@soul8938]

This can be said about most balkan countries

[@HumanTouchArt]

slovenia was mostely under german rule and heavily influenced by german culture mixed with south slavic.... for about 1000 years ...

[@georgethecurious670]

Baltic people are with you!

[@adephx4441]

Quick chat-gpt summary: Celts: The Celts were among the early inhabitants of the region. Romans: The Roman Empire incorporated the territory of present-day Slovenia, and it was part of the Roman province of Pannonia. Huns and Germanic Tribes: After the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the area experienced invasions by the Huns and various Germanic tribes. Slavic Tribes: In the 6th and 7th centuries, Slavic tribes, including the Slovenes, settled in the region. Carantania: In the 7th century, the Slavic principality of Carantania emerged in the territory of present-day Slovenia. Bavarians and Franks: The region came under the influence of the Bavarians and later the Franks. Holy Roman Empire: The Holy Roman Empire exerted control over parts of the territory during the medieval period. Habsburg Monarchy: The Habsburgs gained control over the territory in the late Middle Ages and continued to rule over it for several centuries. Napoleonic France: During the Napoleonic Wars, the territory was briefly under the control of Napoleonic France. Austrian Empire: After the Congress of Vienna in 1815, the region became part of the Austrian Empire. Austro-Hungarian Empire: In 1867, the Austrian Empire transformed into the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and Slovenia was part of this dual monarchy. Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes: After World War I, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes was formed in 1918, which later became the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Axis Occupation (World War II): During World War II, the territory was occupied by Axis powers, including Germany and Italy. Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia: After World War II, Slovenia became one of the six socialist republics within the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Independence: Slovenia declared independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, leading to a brief ten-day war before international recognition of its independence. European Union and NATO: Slovenia joined the European Union and NATO in 2004.

[@mattewj1268]

Thank you professor, this was a very interesting video about a topic I've not heard of before.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you very much!

[@JaysonDejaVu]

dont worry, this video is onesided story...

[@terranceaddison4599]

What do you mean one-sided?

[@fexmarkanm9895]

As someone from Slovenia, i know people who lived during that time and also confronted them about the issue. The government was constatly even after december 26th 1991 urged people to get the citzenship and warned those who didn't of the consequeces. Although there were some unfortunate people, many simply refused to get citzenship due to their political views. But i will admit that the country has gone through a lot of bad governments through its short history, which might be one of the reasons, why not everything that could be was done for those individuals.

[@alexmood6407]

94% of Slovenian people thought it’s right to take away residency from some people and leave them without any rights because you didn’t like their political views. That’s all one needs to know about your country.

[@fexmarkanm9895]

@@alexmood6407 the political view in question was if the person recognized Slovenia as independent. Some people were so pro-yugoslavian, that they refused to get a Slovenian citzenship or go to another yugoslav republic abd get renewed yugoslav citzenship there.

[@alexmood6407]

@@fexmarkanm9895 yes you are correct. This does not give you the right to take away their rights.

[@martinbone2889]

@@alexmood6407 these peoples were all Serbians or eater Bosnians or Croats ....etc

[@alexmood6407]

@Franjo Grandovec so to summarise, you’re saying: Sorry Not Sorry.

[@theresatrogl8722]

I would love to watch a video on Transnistria produced by you. I am just visiting the country and find this de facto state very interesting.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. Great suggestion. This is a topic I have been meaning to cover for ages. I must get round to it.

[@iulianavizitiu3395]

Please note that Transnistria is not a country. It is part of Moldova.

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

🥺

[@dulivoje1125]

Im one of the erased children. I had only 13 years and my brother 9 years old. Thanks for sharing the true. We aply so we can go back to Slovenia and was refused while my parents did not even want to try becose is a lost case. Thanks again. We were both born in Slovenia.

[@mihaelbitola3812]

I want to hear from the older Slovenian people, what they think about the life in ex Yugoslavia , and how they are living after they gained independence.

[@EpicEnej]

Its controversial Im 23yo and thats what ived head Genuinely i think it was better in yougo But the stuff you could buy was limited, only salf made, people regularly smuggled stuff from austria. Pay/job/standers of living where crazy good i thing. You could get a job for life basically anywhere just by saying u want to work. People could build there house no problem and buy a car, maybe not a modern fancy one, ot they had to wait, but they could Then there is oppression, i would take it all for the country not beeing so s*t, (my other comment) But if u didn't go in the middle of the street saing stuff like tito fked up, or if somone didnt report u. You could prob think whatever. There was also a thing called club of communism, and you weren't allowed to be religious Then economy collapsed and all of the sudden we/they couldn't solve things with brotherhood and unity anymore.

[@smalcat]

I am a Slovenian so inherently biased. There are several things where I quite disagree with your asssesment of the problem, even though I fully agree the "erasing" was quite poorly handled, with some real hardship to the people involved. You however do raise a very good question: How should a split of a country be handled? After thinking for some time about it, I see it is not an easy question, so I will focus on this. So here is my (biased) view: there was one country and each citizen had both the citizenship of one of its 6 federated republics and the combined one. This country separated. The combined citizenship no longer exists. So how do you handle the citizenship of people, who are permanently leaving in one republic but have the citizenship of another? I basically see only two options: - a) you make all the citizens of a no longer existing country that were at the time of the split permanently leaving in one federal republic - its citizens. This option does have some problems. First is it really ok to push a citizenship on someone? Some did not want it. Most countries in the world frown on dual citizenship, do you force them to revoke their existing citizenship of another republic? - b) offer them a choice. This seems a better option. This "choice" option is what it was effectivley done. However, by the tone of the video and some coments it should be viewed borderline ethnic clensing... (I have an issue with this part. Especially since I know some personal stories from the other republics which make it all that harder to swallow). So if this option is chosen, how long should the people in question have a choice? Three months? A year? Ten years? Permanently? Basically due to the fact the country ceased to exist they are in a judicial limbo. Do you allow them to vote while still not making the choice? So my question is, what would be a good way to handle citizenship? The first option? How do you handle dual citizenships? I am always proponent of choice, so I prefer the second option. In my mind if the window to choose was longer, at least so long that people had a chance to realize citizenship is important, it would be a good solution no? But until they do not chose it you have to consider them non-citizens. And for some who actively refuesed the new citizenship, emotionally clinging to the no longer existing one, what to do with them? Now a disclaimer.I really dont know of anything better to do regarding citizenship. It is however quite likely I am missing a better way and would trully be interested in learning it. All in all, I am sure a citizenship has to be handled in some way, event though I am not sure what that way is.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. The issue here wasn’t the decision over granting citizenship. Slovenia was actually rather progressive. It was the way that it was done. It may have sounded like a lot of time was given to people, but it wasn’t. There was a lot going on. To put it in perspective, the U.K. have EU citizens years to apply to stay. And yet after the deadline hundreds of thousands still hadn’t done so.

[@mwfp1987]

People don't want to live with "others". There is no good solution to that fact.

[@marusaluv]

Greetings from Slovenia ❤

[@gooner72]

Absolutely fascinating video mate, thank you for posting. Ethnicity and politics seem to be the catalyst for most wars in Europe, it's sadness really.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Cheers. This was a really little known aspect of the break up of Yugoslavia. I had wanted to do it for ages as I knew one of the erased. Very sad stories.

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@makavelimaka8035]

@@JamesKerLindsay You would like to be smart to Slovenians, what is appropriate and what is not? You would like to preach about human rights, you who throughout history stole, killed, smashed, and appropriated foreign lands and people ? We Slovenians are the Angels compared to you!

[@slovenc88]

There were issues and some were erased by mistake, but a lot of those people didn't want our documents because they believed serboslavia will win the war.

[@babitayadav4806]

What's most impressive about you is that you respond to nationalists from all sides in the comment section of many of your videos, if I was in your place I would be extremely frustrated by reading and replying to these "this is xyz propaganda" people Your patience is truly admirable Greetings from India

[@mrcocoloco7200]

Indeed that is impressive.

[@kazupemaruta6990]

If he does a video about any of the numerous issues in India though ... I already see in my minds eye the comment section. It is often near impossible to unravel the whole truth with all sides pushing true or untrue information that suits their current interests. It is so not only for ordinary folk but even for professional analysts that actively evaluate their sources and biases.

[@CodeSwag]

What an awesome channel!!!

[@snowyfictions]

Excellent video - I did not know this. Citizenship is obviously important - yet I do believe countries are ultimately responsible for who gets it. No human should suffer from statelessness... yet how do we measure that with the soverign right of nations to pick her own people? It's not an easy question, especially when ethnicity is involved. It's easy to proclaim 'oh it doesn't matter, we're all equal' - the latter, sure. But not the former. Yet having that stance requires alot of work. Idk what I'm getting at here - but Westerners can have a flippant attitude towards citizenship, statehood and ethnic history. If you want to have a multilinguistic country with various cultures, leaders must understand it won't always be easy and there are real challenges. By studying Slovenia and the broader Yugoslavia, we can build a nexus of wisdom in handling these complexities.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks very much. I know many people see this as a relatively minor issue as compared with the wars of the 1990s. However, it is very important in its own way.

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

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[@Username.shalomtoyou]

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[@Username.shalomtoyou]

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[@funiman7636]

All i gotta say: there was propaganda against Slovenija. Not that stuff like that isnt bad but last couple of years im starting to feel like everyone is against Slovenija.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

I don’t think people are against Slovenia. I’m certainly not. I’ve been many times and I love the country. But these sorts of issues do need to be raised. As you can see in the comments, many Slovenes deny it happened. Many argue that it was absolutely acceptable. My view is that it is still an aspect of the breakup of Yugoslavia. It may not be seen as serious as events elsewhere. However it still deserves to be looked at and explained.

[@damonmelendez856]

There are still people who want to put that whole rotten mess back together.

[@jebise1126]

not entirely correct. they had more than once chance to apply for citizenship. they just rejected those because they were bunch of nationalists

[@selwyngamble4585]

One video I would love to see is on New Zealand’s colonial past in the Pacific. Perhaps the terrible handling of the UN administration of Sāmoa? It’s something the New Zealand population needs to learn more about.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Hi Selwyn, thanks so much. Great suggestion! I really do want to return to this. I’ve been meaning to do a video for ages on how NZ and the US treat the concept of free association very differently.

[@hybridforcesofthegdl3313]

New Zealand did nothing wrong

[@freezing5]

@@hybridforcesofthegdl3313 You are probably unaware of Ponsonby dawn raids. NZ govt has since apologised for those but NZ still treats the PIs as a colony. Fruit pickers are still exploited and given no rights.

[@aaronlopez717]

agree to your typing ! ... UN plus the world Bank around the or many countries has be blessing by his way to do business ..

[@nickiseb8910]

Knowing N.Z. I am sure they do know.

[@readisgooddewaterkant7890]

One idea is to make a video on country identity region identity and city identity and explaining what factors influence that

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Great suggestion! I’ve actually meant to do a video on London independence at some point. I did an interview on this a number of years ago and always thought it would make a good video. Something a little bit different. :-)

[@t3333beats]

​@@JamesKerLindsayI was thinking you got a familiar voice was you on times radio?

[@pollorenzo6437]

Hi, what movie is that 5:44? Thank you

[@JamesKerLindsay]

It’s called ‘Izbrisana’ (Erased). Here are the details: m.imdb.com/title/tt9078014/

[@Liphted]

Good video, keep it up mang! I love your take on geopolitics, I'm such a dork for this stuff...

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. Me too! :-)

[@mirjanamilosavljevic4261]

I was born in former Yugoslavia,we all had the Yugoslavian passports,regardless of the republic we were born or lived in, officially we all used to be Yugoslavs….Yugoslav Citizens/ citizen ship Personal ID cards or driving licences were not a prof or the citizen ship ,but there was no restrictions to drive trough the whole Yugoslavia

[@Ballykeith]

Sounds like you feel Yugo-nostalgia?

[@sriharshacv7760]

@@Ballykeith What is wrong with it?

[@Ballykeith]

@@sriharshacv7760 I didn't say anything was wrong with it.

[@sportomanokin]

This is such a misleading post. In 1992, in the middle of Yugoslav war (mess), so called "erased" (Serbs, Bosnians who lived in Slovenia) were simply hesitant, didn't want to accept (refused) new Slovenian passport, or were too proud of their roots from their native republics. They were sorry later due to the lousy outcome of war and bad economy, which still didn't recover. Slovenia is and always was by far the most organized, cleanest, safest and richest of all former Yugoslav republic.

[@jordantasevski2993]

any reply by him coming?

[@JamesKerLindsay]

No. I have replied to this numerous times in other comments.

[@Lionzvezdara78]

Mein kampf inspired?

[@kosarkosar7683]

The republics in Yugoslavia had their republican citizenship and permanent residence if you went to live in another republic. It is necessary to know the interwar nationalist propaganda against Slovenes in order to understand this problem. People who had permanent residence in Slovenia and did not deregister it when they had already moved to the west or to other republics during the Yugoslav era were erased. There were also a few who came back to live later or lived permanently in Slovenia, but these were mostly Slovenes by nationality. In those conditions when Slovenes were still learning to manage the country, they thought that people would register themselves within 6 months, so that they would even know who still lives in the country and who does not. However, it must also be said that these erased people were able to return to Slovenia at any time and regain their permanent residence, which was not possible in other Yugoslav republics, only if you were of the majority nationality. There were also such cases, for example, an Albanian who lived illegally in Germany and the Germans wanted to extradite him to Serbia because he had Serbian republican citizenship, which is more than just a permanent residence that expires in six months if you do not live in the country, but it was rejected by the Serbs. Only Slovenes wanted to take this Albanian because he once lived in Slovenia for some time during Yugoslavia and had a permanent residence which he did not deregister. It is not a problem for the erased to get their permanent residence back in Slovenia, but now that they see how fair and orderly Slovenia is, they want to have Slovenian citizenship under the same conditions as they were offered in 1991. They do not sue because they do not get the status they had in Yugoslavia, but because they would like citizenship and compensation for the time when they were not in Slovenia and were erased from their permanent residence. Due to propaganda, because no one in Slovenia stopped it and did not pay attention to how foreign nationalist forces would try to portray Slovenian independence as a criminal act, the lie became the truth. The Slovenes needed not only to learn how to run the country, but also to teach the nation that in reality other nations are much more nationalistic and wish them ill and do not have the same idea of ​​the world. It is necessary to know the history, how foreigners ruled the Slovenes for a thousand years. They ruled the Slovenes by denationalizing them and confusing them by inciting one Slovene against another, and so a strong unified affiliation never developed. And they were also taught how incompetent they were that if it weren’t for their masters, others would destroy them. It is also important to know that other nations considered themselves more and looked down on the Slovenes because of their nationalist propaganda, so that at the beginning it was beneath their honor to cooperate and accept the new state. Due to the confusion about belonging to either communism or Yugoslavia or pan Slavism or the newly created state, politicians quickly began to take advantage of this without conscience and thus deepen the rift between Slovenes, so that Slovenes have no idea how others treat them, because they quarrel with each other and have their own themes. In Slovenia, there is almost a civil war between the old communist elite, which took over the country practically after independence again, because the newly formed parties did not get acquainted with politics and did not remove the former elite from the main positions and media. The Slovenes in Yugoslavia were the most enslaved nation in the world, because no other nation had to give so much for other nations. If we had not left Yugoslavia, given Slovenia's economic backwardness due to the withdrawal of its funds, Slovenia would be less developed today than Bosnia. In terms of purchasing power, it was already captured by Serbia in the 1990s. In Slovenia, immigrants received all the best apartments, but Slovenes sometimes had to wait for years to get their turn. And many did not pay the bills because they saw Slovenia as their prey and no one could do anything to them. Also because during the Yugoslav era, due to high inflation, the Serbs gave their Serb people stamps to sell to Slovenes at high prices, and a hundred other things could be said about it, so in the end independence was the only option if they did not want to go bankrupt or however, to emigrate from Yugoslavia, as forced by the authorities last year in Yugoslavia.

[@Lionzvezdara78]

@@kosarkosar7683 There would have been no Slovenia or Slovenians whatsoever if there they had not been liberated by Serbs in 1918 and 1945. Do not forget how many Serbs died for Trieste and were willing to go in war against UK and USA during Trieste crisis 1945-1954. Serbs could have taken Romanian banat with then predominant Serbian Arad and Timisoara in 1919 and instead gave it in return for Bled and Bohinj which should have been Italain and Austrian. What about crippled Serbia in 1941 receiving Slovenians exprelled by Nazis? Where was Milan Kucan born?

[@kw2142]

very good video, as i must say didn't know anything about this

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks a lot. Very few people know about this. Even many people across former Yugoslavia haven’t heard about it.

[@Pisti846]

Slovenia could have handled the situation better but I can't blame the Slovenians for not wanting to erase themselves like the Germans, French and English are.

[@tylerspunucious7420]

Can you do the Bhutan/China/India Doklam Plateau along with Aksai Chin next?

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. Excellent suggestion. I am planning to take a look at this. It is certainly on my list. But it probably won’t be for a little while as I have a few topics already lined up - barring any major news developments.

[@jebise1126]

they were offered compensation that was comparable to that what people got after ww2 when they were in german concentration camps but they refused...

[@ThomasHalways]

Astonishing, completely unknown to me, even that I fancy myself as an informed and inquisitive individual. Europe is truly a troubled pot of grievances... I knew of the case of Maribor 1918-1919, unrest and expulsion of German and Hungarian speaking from the city. Around 1900 they constituted 82.3% of the city population, but the surrounding lands were predominantly Slovenian. What shaped me as a young person was a little event of a train ride in Switzerland, Luzern to Lugano. As we closed on Tessin/Ticino a double name of station showed: German atop/Italian below. The next station was Italian atop/German below. Next was only Italian. This simple case was so impressive to me: Why can't we learn from the Swiss to live with an ethnic mix without the hysteria of bureaucratic or personal chicanes and grievances? Apparently we still cannot.

[@krishnakatikitala-bw1xo]

Great video professor thank you 🙏🏻

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you very much indeed. It is a tragic story. And it’s been interesting to read through the comments from Slovene nationalists who refuse to accept that the country did something fundamentally wrong, despite all the judgements made against the government internally and externally.

[@albanalshiqi2378]

The declarations of independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo came as a result of the nationalist and repressive policies of Milosevic, who wanted to create a greater Serbia. When these three republics declared independence, Milosevic started wars.. Why ? For one reason only, Why do they declare independence ? Which is a right of every nation. For my opinion, Serbia is the shame of Balkans.

[@bilic8094]

So this is Serbia's fault again ? This is an internel issue in Slovenia that's it.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

I think we need to be very careful in how we analyse the break up of Yugoslavia. As I said, it is complex and highly contested. Yes, Milošević played a major role. Indeed, the central role. But was he the instigator of nationalism elsewhere or was he the product of nationalist forces already in play in Yugoslavia? In other words, was his nationalist Greater Serbia project the cause of Yugoslavia’s breakup or the consequence of an inevitable path to dissolution the Federation was already taking? This is not to defend his policies. The outcome of his policies led to huge suffering. I often point out that Serbia has him to thank for the terrible reputational problems it faces today. But I also think it’s important not to see forces leading to the breakup of Yugoslavia as merely the fault of ‘the Serbs’ and the Serbs alone. It is far more complex than that.

[@RottenFlag]

True story, the Coronavirus crisis, global warming, and the flat tyre on my bicycle today, all of these were also aS a rEsUlT oF tHe nAtiOnaLiSt pOliCiEs oF MiLoŠevIć.

[@albanalshiqi2378]

@@JamesKerLindsay In every Republic that declared independence, Milosevic sent troops there and started the war. The result was catastrophic. 20,000 killed in Croatia, 100,000 killed in Bosnia and 13,500 killed in Kosovo. Milosevic started three wars and lost all three ashamed. Why ? Because justice always wins, the right to be independent and sovereign. We have paid dearly for this independence and freedom that we enjoy today, with our blood. Now, let's take a look at Serbia, where the role of the victim is played or in fact they are the aggressor. They do not admit that there was genocide in Srebrenica. They are pathetic. We in the Balkans know them very well, Mr.James.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@@albanalshiqi2378 Again, it is important not to confuse the way the wars evolved with the causes of the break up of Yugoslavia. It is important to separate out the two. They are rather different discussions. I am happy to point to the disastrous policies of Milošević. But it is wrong to delay that he single handedly caused the break up of Yugoslavia. The roots of the conflict lie a lot deeper than that. I know people in Kosovo have strong views on this, and for good reason. But I am an academic. I have to base my analysis on evidence. And I know very well that the causes of events need to be separated from the consequences of those events. Applying a backwards analysis is not good scholarship.

[@jureodar4]

As a Slovenian that lived threw that I am asamed that it happened and the cover up afterwords. But it should be stated clarly that everyone who registered acordenly, was granted cidisenship and that it was defined automaticly by a place of birthy and not nacionality.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you. You are right. It is important to note that the large majority of Yugoslavs living in Slovenia at the time applied for, and were granted, citizenship. It is just a shame that the government behaved so badly towards those who missed the deadline.

[@jureodar4]

@@JamesKerLindsayYou have to understand that Yugoslavia wes a union and that the mayorty of its citisents have nacional and federal percepcion of them selphs. A Yugoslav nacionaly was never mayoritly excpted and the county borke up because it coudnt agree on a its future organization. Slovins and Croats were for confederation white Serbs and Montenegrions were for unitarian stat Bosnians and Macedonians were somwhere in the midle. Slovins were lingvicticaly diferent and we were the most econamicly developed republic dus we had the biggest populiation of workers from other parts of the union, there were sam nacionalistic, religous and especialy economic tentions ad segregation but generaly they were excepted by mayority and they assimilated quiqly becoming an integral part of Slovenian society. As such they mayortly suported independence on referendum and in the war that folowed. A large procetage of erised were army and other federal intitutios employs and ther families as ther funtions were inhertly ageist Slovinian sestion causess they were seen as animies in many cases they alsow moved with the shrinking federation not realizing that its days were numebered, caming bect to Slovenia due to economic, political ore social unrest in the repubics of their birth. Due to the antiy sesecional creck down and a short war some pubick Yugoslav mlitary yuresdicinal personal were proclamed as state enymies and unwanted. In any case this legistration was past on in termoil of indepedance strugle when the Slovins felt that our esparation of an independant stat was in dangere. In 30 years Slovenia excepted far more people from formar YU that it erased dus it was esentaly unjust, unenececary and economicly stupid not to correct the low whan the dagere ended.

[@jureodar4]

@@majolko Pomanševalna imena se uporabljajo za tiste, ki se skrivajo za profili. Me veseli da ti angleško pisanje ne predstavlja težav , čudi me pa ne, da te ob takem obnašanju čudno gledajo tako domači kot tudi tuji slušatelji. Lp

[@jadeh2699]

@@JamesKerLindsay I'm not anywhere near the part of the world you are discussing. But if the people were given the opportunity to become citizens of Slovenia and missed the deadline, then isn't that on them? Why are you having more sympathy for the people who failed to be responsible, than for the people who did things correctly? I don't understand. Btw...very interesting video. I have never heard any of this history regarding the breakup of Yugoslavia.

[@thetalkingdead4657]

@@JamesKerLindsay They missed the deadline because of their own damn fault. Traitors, who were saying all the time "this is still Yugoslavia" and tried to resist the reality they were going trough. Instead of doing what they were supposed to, they were playing a hero and throwing a tantrum about Slovenias independance. They had more than enough time to apply for citizenship and they wasted it with throwing a fit. (this is not a popular oppinion, but it's true)

[@seberangjaya]

I never knew about this. Thanks prof.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. Yes, it is a story that isn't perhaps as widely known as would would expect.

[@franserranoalba]

Someone knows where to find the movie

[@ChaplainDMK]

Thanks for highlighting this. Slovenia is a country that outwards seems like a very clean, fair and tolerant place - in reality we have so many skeletons stuffed in our closets it's impressive the doors are still holding. And impressed about your patience in dealing with all the Slovenia did nothing wrong apologists.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks so much. It has been really interesting to see all the nationalist responses. I actually know Slovenia very well and have a lot of affection of it. (Ljubljana is lovely and Lake Bohinj is one of the most beautiful places in the world - even more than Bled to my mind!) This video wasn't made to try to insult Slovenia, but to highlight a very real issue of human rights that occurred. It is just amazing that people still deny that the country did anything wrong, even though the Slovenian Supreme Court and the ECHR ruled against the government.

[@ChaplainDMK]

​@@JamesKerLindsay Yes exactly, but I feel a lot of Slovenians have a mentality that we as a country did nothing wrong, and in fact we were the only party ever wronged because we are the small underdog fighting for our independence from big empires. The region im from, Štajerska (Lower Styria) used be very German, with Germans being the majority population in Maribor before WWI. Obviously this was partly due to colonialistic tendencies of Austria and the unequal distribution of power and wealth among the ethnicities of the Austrian and later Austro-Hungarian empire. But the reality was that these were regular people, regular Austrians and Germans, who ended up being expelled en masse, forced to leave their homes through aggressive actions by Slovenia/SHS in the immediate post-war period and collapse of Austria-Hungary. After WWII many even executed in large numbers in Villach as traitors or collaborators. All of this ended resulted in Štajerska being completely cleansed of Germans after WWII - yet we barely at all talk about this, if you bring up that this was in fact ethnic cleansing they will act shocked, and General Maister who was the leader of a military coup in Štajerska will be presented as a flawless national hero, even though he for example ordered his troops to fire on protesting Germans after the take over of Štajerska from Austria. But I feel Slovenians have a hard to integrating these facts into our "narrative", since we want to portray ourselves so much as the "good underdog" fighting against oppression (from Austria, from Nazi Germany, from Yugoslavia, from Italy etc.), that it's impossible to accept that reality is gray and no state/ethnicity is pure. We did horrible things to regular people living in Slovenia who we consider "others" in order to achieve our goals, and brushed it under the carpet in the grander narrative of fighting against the evil empires that surrounded us. And I don't think this is insulting, it's reality. But the problem is that nations are not based on reality, they're based on myths and legends and narratives. And trying to point out how reality often clashes with they myths, legends, and narratives is quite dangerous, especially when reality is a lot darker and more complex than what we are fed growing up.

[@ChaplainDMK]

@Franjo Grandovec Good job proving exactly my point.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. But it really hasn’t brought many Slovene haters here. Frankly, I don’t think I’ve ever really met any. Apart from the Erased, most people in the former Yugoslavia actually tend to have a positive view of Slovenia. (And hardly anyone even knows about the Erased. I do as I knew one of them.) The far bigger problem, as has been shown here, is that Slovenia had its own brand of nationalism that most people are unaware about. I know Slovenia well. I’ve been many times and I am very fond of it. But I have been surprised and appalled at the terrible comments from Slovenian nationalists. This has been the real revelation. And if I was Slovenian I’d be far more upset about how their comments paint the country than the relatively few comments from others who might say bad things about Slovenia.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@Franjo Grandovec Oh, I see. It didn’t take much for the veneer of moderation to fall away. That was a nasty little rant. I don’t know why I wasted my time trying to engage politely. As it happens, I’ve made lots of videos about U.K. wrongdoing. If you had actually dated to watch the channel. Likewise, you would have seen that I also made a video about Operation Storm.

[@amina-pr8xt]

Slovenians considered themselfes usually as central european, not part of the balkan. The ppl from other parts of Ex-YU who live there remind them of this past they want to leave behind. But I was surprised about comments from slovenes under yt videos, there is also something like Jugo- nostalgia there

[@Histra]

we were never balkans

[@amina-pr8xt]

@@Histra QED

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

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[@ineshvaladolenc6559]

Geographically, we're in the Balkans, which begins with our Westernmost border, the Soča river. Culturally we're Slavic, but with strong central European influence. (former German/Austrian dominion) Slovenia is mostly Catholic, and has a long Christian tradition, going back to the days of (sometimes violent) Christianization in the HRE. This puts us closer to something like the Czech republic, or Slovakia, which were also Slavic nations part of the former Austro-Hungarian empire. Politically we also gravitate towards Germany/central Europe, like Croatia south of us. But not towards Belgrade, the former capital of Yugoslavia and current capital of Serbia. Even during the Yugoslav days, Slovenia preferred our own autonomous policy over listening to Belgrade. That's a short recap.

[@nabilalhami1681]

5:45 So, Mr James has started to use film clips in his videos. That's new.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

So, you noticed! :-) Yes, I thought I would give it a try. What did you think? A positive new direction in my editing? I’ve been trying out quite a lot of new things lately.

[@nabilalhami1681]

@@JamesKerLindsay I would say it's a positive new direction. It can help to suggest films based on a political crisis.

[@pepz6559]

@@JamesKerLindsay Could you please make a video on the Sri Lanka civil war?

[@boruttrost5750]

That's a scene from the 2018 Slovenian film Izbrisana, which deals with the issue of the erased. But is it credited anywhere here? It was shown on our public TV last year and afterwards our very vulgar Minister of the Interior tweeted that it was shameful that public money had gone towards its production.

[@boruttrost5750]

Oh, yes, it is credited. Sorry.

[@VWLiftKits]

James, you are correct.

[@SimonS44]

Interesting video, thanks! Isn't it the case that there are somewhat similar issues in Estonia and Latvia? Ethnic Russians, formerly citizens of the USSR, that haven't been granted Estonian or Latvian citizenship? Maybe that would be an interesting topic to cover as well

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks a lot! You’re absolutely right. There are some really interesting and important parallels. I certainly hope to look into it. And it’s quite interesting to see how the different Baltic Republics have handled this issue.

[@deivydasjuonys6487]

@@JamesKerLindsay Greetings,nice video professor. In Lithuania we handled this issue differently unlike our neighbours Estonia and Latvia. When Lithuania was occupied by the USSR. Many Lithuanians joined partisan ranks during 1944-1956 and were lead by high ranking commanders such as: General Jonas Žemaitis-Vytautas , Adolfas Ramanauskas-Vanagas and Juozas Lukša-Daumantas fought USSR secret, opressive police NKVD predecessor of KGB. And also Lithuania Communist Party Central Committee First Secretary Antanas Sniečkus was factual leader of Lithuania Soviet Socialist Republic tried to make country uninhabitably to Russian colonists. Because of these succesful measures many Russians chose to flee to former Estonian SSR and Latvian SSR. Because in those countries Anti-Soviet partisan movement was shorter .

[@Afgan8844]

I don't know about Estonia, but in Latvia anyone who wants to get Latvian citizenship can do so without any obstacles. You just have to fulfill the requirements. I think it is hard for outsiders to understand the situation if you only look at the surface. It is actually encouraged that they get the citizenship, but a lot of them are loyal to russia. They basically want the citizenship and then vote for the pro russia party in our elections. And if you just look how that turned out for Ukraine or Belarus, it is not the best course of action in my opinion.

[@seneca983]

@@Afgan8844 I think in Estonia getting citizenship requires some level of proficiency in the Estonian language, though I'm not 100% sure.

[@ericburton5163]

From my understanding there are tons of instances of this happening (not the erased part but minority populations in a newly independent country). To my knowledge how the situation was handled depended on A) did the old country or a legal successor state whose ethnic majority is the minority population in the newly independent country still exist? Is that old country/successor state located nearby? Is that old country/successor state powerful or large? Economically does it make sense for people from the new country to move to the old country? Does the old country use lanuage complaining about the break up/ irredentist language? Does the minority support the old country / "long for the mother country" / still seem themselves as part of the old country rather than the new. If the answer is yes to all of these then understandably the new country is afraid that encouraging the minority to stay will give an excuse to the old country to invade due to irridentism. I think the only way to comabt this is either for the minority to move back to the old country or to embrace their new country (even if they still want to maintain elements of their culture). Like in this case they should be Serbian-Slovenes or Slovenian with a Serb background and not Serbs who happen to live in Slovenia but wish that the Serb dominated Yugoslavia still existed. Or if they wish the Serb dominated Yugoslavia still existed they should move to Serbia. I think no matter what its not fair (either to the Slovenes or the Serbs) and at least this way, there is less tension.

[@Username.shalomtoyou]

.

[@ephraimbrener9143]

It's unfortunate and tragic, but I can understand. Look at what happened/is happening in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. There are a lot of non-citizens of Russian descend, who are stateless living in the Baltic states, with almost no chance of obtaining it. Sure, they can go to Russia and become the Russian nationals, but they choose not too. I have friends in Estonia with exactly this status, and as much as I think and care for their well-being, emotions apart, I understand Estonia, being a nation state of Estonians, whose demographics being abused during Soviet occupation.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. You are absolutely right. The treatment of the Russian communities in the Baltics has also been atrocious. And there are some interesting and important parallels. I really do hope to take a look at this in a future video.

[@WilliamMallinson]

@@JamesKerLindsay Good idea!

[@SionTJobbins]

@@JamesKerLindsay they can learn basic Estonian and gain full citizenship. It's what's expected in other states either de fact if not de jure. I can't see what's difficult in learning the majority state language of the country you decide freely to live in. Would you live in Estonia and refuse to learn Estonian?

[@mariofretz]

@@SionTJobbins You should not be forced to learn estonian in order to keep your right to live without discrimination or persecution in a place where you may have been born. One solution would be to have 2 or more official languages as in many european countries. i.e. belgium (3 official languages). Even India which was a colony of the UK adopted english as a second official language. I lived in Latvia for 7 years and chose to learn russian instead of latvian, because most people there do speak the language and it is so much more useful than latvian which no one speaks outside of latvia. I suspect very much the same is true for Estonia.

[@DelijeSerbia]

Except Slovenia was treated the best out off all Yugoslav states.

[@lordSatan]

I am from Slovenia. Some people in comments here apparently feel like they are Slovenian government's PR managers or something. I see this phenomenon on Quora as well on topics like racism in Slovenia and such, where people act like the country is perfect and such things do not exist at all. So, the defensive attitude does not surprise me, but do not expect it from me. The Erasing _cannot_ be justified. The whole "they missed the deadline" excuse is already a cop-out because the strict deadline was also itself a problem. You can still exchange our old paper money for euros after 20 years, but somehow exchanging the old ID for the new ID had a strict 6 month time-limit. Why? I think the 1-3€ you may scrounge up around your home is a trivial matter compared to basic citizenship rights. However, I could have somewhat understood if the government fixed the matter once prompted, but apparently it was better to exploit it for short-term political gain. Its frankly quite bizarre that they didn't do so even after the ECHR told them to. I have been told by an immigrant from Kazahstan that "people in the office for foreigners should be in prison" - a person who was otherwise quite positive about the country. There's a sort of a bizarre nationalistic undercurrent in this country, which those foreign office people may be part of. Cartoonishly speaking, those east of us are seen with disdain while those west of us are seen with worship. So, I would not be surprised if this was some attempt to get rid of some undesirables since what "we" really want is to be close to the "cool kids". Anyway, this will likely get buried, but you did ask for thoughts and I thought I could provide a counterweight to all those "PR managers" you have in the top rated comments. I appreciate that you've covered this - such things should be brought into the limelight. I am not the only Slovene with this opinion, in fact the public opinion has turned quite a bit on this since the days of vilifying the Erased.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you so much. This is one of the best and most thoughtful comments here. I really and truly appreciate it. I completely agree with everything you say. I know Slovenia very well. I have been many times. It is a wonderful country. But like you I have also been taken aback by the unpleasant and unexpected nationalism from some Slovenian commenters.

[@saravananjanakiraman7016]

I request you to make a video on Sri Lankan Civil War

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you very much indeed. In fact, this has long been on my mind. It is an incredibly important story and actually casts light on what happened in Nagorno-Karabakh last year.

[@mirjanamilosavljevic4261]

It will be great if we can know the status of Slovenia in the Austrian/ Hungarian monarchy

[@readisgooddewaterkant7890]

This is a very good creator and makes very good videos

[@maetebtesfamariam4072]

The situation in ethiopia is worst than what had broken down Yugoslavia in to many countries. abiy ahmed is breaking down ethiopia in to pieces .

[@jasminbesic7266]

This happened all across countries in former Yugoslavia. My brother was one of "erased" in Croatia.

[@Mike-br8zt]

The break up of Yugoslavia caught many by surprise and many did not want to face the reality of what was happening. My wife suddenly found that she was a citizen of 2 countries: Croatia and Yugo. This only came to light when she tried to obtain a new Yugo passport during the war/break up. A Croatian passport was 'obtained' by her mother as she had the political contacts in both Croatia and Yugo.

[@Tomi168]

It's a little known issue with a reason. Slovenia's population has always been the most homogenous out of all former Yugoslav regions. Therefore, persons in the minority who were ultimately not eligible to gain Slovenian citizenship have largely brought it onto themselves. A person who is not aware of what is happening in their immediate surrounding, does not belong in the surrounding.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Ah yes, another charming voice of Slovenian intolerance. Seriously, I’m not sure if all the Slovenian nationalists have any idea what this comments section has done for the country’s image for anyone outside who believes that Slovenes are all very easy going and tolerant. Most are. But it’s interesting to see that it has it own share of narrow minded xenophobes.

[@tillykelp6340]

Did you say people were erased because they did not apply for citizenship even after given repeated opportunities? How can this be human rights abuse? Clearly these people did not agree with an independent Slovenia and identified as other than Slovenia.

[@curseditem8354]

these were people dancing in the streets and shouting how 'the YPA will fuck us up' when the 10 day war started

[@tillykelp6340]

@@curseditem8354 what is YPA?

[@curseditem8354]

@@tillykelp6340 yugslav people's army

[@charleskristiansson1296]

Perhaps you consider doing a video in the Aland Islands and its neutrailty!!!

[@1joshjosh1]

As somebody who's travelled to that part of the world several times I sympathize with Slovenia. They gave these people opportunity. And unlike the proper and on time Slovenian, they were late. Do what you're told when you're told to do it in some cases. Slovenia = German efficiency and properness mixed with Slavic culture.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Sorry but that is simply not true. It was a time of huge upheaval. Some weren’t in the country. Others may have had mental health issues or other problems. Britain have people years to register as EU citizens after Brexit and hundreds of thousands missed the deadliness Slovenia gave people three months - in the pre-internet age. Really, this wasn’t appropriate. And let’s remember that the European Court of Human Rights agreed it wasn’t. Seriously, there’s no real defence for what happened. It was, quite literally, inhuman.

[@1joshjosh1]

@@JamesKerLindsay I will agree with you doctor. I am in no position to argue with the facts or somebody of your achievements. Slovenia is one of the most homogeneous populations in Europe. Part of you deep down must not blame them for wanting to keep it that way. One Almanac I read said 99% Roman Catholic and 95% Slovenian. Probably doesn't make it right though. Thank you for the information.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@@1joshjosh1 Thanks. There’s certainly no reason to defer to me just because if the titles! :-) Slovenia is a lovely country. I know it very well and have been many times. But this was an unfortunate stain on that reputation. It was worth conversing as it was one of the lesser known aspects of the break up of Yugoslavia.

[@1joshjosh1]

@@JamesKerLindsay It literally is German efficiency mixed with Slavic culture. Many Bosnians and Serbians accuse Slovenians of only thinking about making money and being on time. 😆

[@1joshjosh1]

@@JamesKerLindsay But you are right it was a good discussion.

[@MrJakubina]

"By February 2016, this has paid out 22 million € to around 5300 people." If we divide 22milion by 5300 people we get 4151€ and if we divide it by 25 years this comes to 166€ per year or 13,83 € a month that is close to nothing for someone that wasnt able to work for 25 years!

[@Postmodern368]

Good observation!

[@ananovak1275]

Slovenia is home to 150,000 - 200,000 ex-Yugoslavs, after Slovenia gained its independence, it arranged for its citizens. The others did not want to do this, in the time set for acquiring Slovenian citizenship, because they did not want to renounce their citizenship of the former Yugoslav republics. Later, however, they were blackmailed and dramatized because they were treated like everyone else who wanted Slovenian citizenship. In each country, the laws for obtaining citizenship apply in each country!

[@taemi5507]

I don't think I've ever heard about this before and I'm Slovenian. Though I suppose it's different because I was born in 2000s, but still

[@Q_QQ_Q]

Who are Yugoslavs ? Different ethnicity?

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

@@Q_QQ_Q yugoslaves.. Its not an ethnicity its just a collective term for people from yugoslavia

[@CKwoi]

I wonder what would've happened with all the EU citizens that chose to not take care of their status in the UK after Brexit? Would the UK's highest courts also have ruled that these EU citizens who decided not to sort out their status in the UK had a reasonable expectation that they wouldn't be treated the same as foreigners that were only then moving to the UK and that they won't lose their residency? That these EU citizens had a reasonable expectation that them not sorting out their status will not significantly worsen their legal situation and that they will still be able to reside in the UK if they so chose? Because that was literally the reasoning of the Slovenian constitutional court. So, what would've happened to any EU citizen who actively chose not to sort out their post-Brexit status in the UK? And yes, for this to be even slightly equivalent, they would've also ignored the additional time to sort out the situation. And let's ignore the fact that these EU citizens weren't supporters of an enemy country that was literally driving tanks around the UK, shooting up stuff.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

In fact, the EU citizens living in Britain who failed to meet the deadline is likely to become an issue. There are estimated to be several hundred thousand who missed it - even after years of notice (remember that in Slovenia it was just a few months, and all this in an era before things could be done online). There have already been cases of lots of elderly who didn't know they had to do it, often because they had been here for decades. So, yes, I fully expect court cases. And I really have problems with this idea that they were all traitors. They weren't. This is a lazy justification that has crept in. Sadly, I suspect many of these repeating it probably weren't even alive when this happened. It was a confusing time. Many of those who missed it may have had mental health problems. Others might have been out of the country and unable to get back. (There was a war going on.) Besides, the Slovenian Constitutional Court and the ECHR have both made their rulings on this and decided that the Government behaved unacceptably.

[@CKwoi]

​@@JamesKerLindsay Well, once we see how Britain solves that issue, we can revisit whether Slovenia truly committed such a heinous act. I'll give you that those who were genuinely not capable of understanding or acting on the situation shouldn't have been treated this way. But anyone that had the right to vote and was able to sort things out has zero excuse, IMHO, and I wouldn't hesitate considering them opportunists at best. I've given you a translation of the Slovenian Constitutional Court's reasoning. That's why I will now be expecting you to blast Britain equally harshly if they don't just let everyone who didn't and doesn't sort out their status carry on as if nothing happened. I mean, if the UK were to abide by the same standards as our CC imposed on our government, there would've been no need for anyone to sort out their status in Britain in the first place. But hey, we're used to double standards from northern/western EU people down here. If we do it, it's criminal. If you do it, it's business as usual. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@bojanstare8667]

Have you seen situation in UK now? How manny Polack , mosstly truck drivers, have gone back in EU because of Brexit? Markets were the same as market in Soviet Union in 50-is. :-)

[@hybridforcesofthegdl3313]

Our Full support to our Slovenian brothers and our sweet Slovenian sisters , so - called Yugoslavs (Ivan - Lovers ) can move to Siberian Jungles . with Love from Belarus !

[@koalabear1984]

Hvala.

[@suzlus]

Well let me responde JAMES and since ur 'neutral' I will try my best in english ,D Geting tjhe facts and distributing them like u did, brings 1 side of the story and creates more questions then answers. But im glad u went back before the war to include other stuff. The 'break' of Yugoslavija was carefuly planned with SLO being the 1st to break out, then Croatia... The reason is Schangan border/agrement with EU (can we block all the 'balkan'(former yugoslavija) and become '' the gateway '' to EU officially?!? That 10day skirmish with JNA soldiers was nothing and we had almost no deaths *( compared to all the victims down south ) so we have to pay our respects to all the south by allowing a dead-line seweral times over (not just 1 dead-line, they had many...). I will give u an example of a country that gave a 'minority' a vote and that minority became majority and started controling branches of goverment and ultimatly leading a country like that... --- MACEDONIA with Albanians and their voting rights! *Maybe u should do Macedonians study, since ther rights are all but gone now ... ;C Anyway the real reason we DIDNT alow more time and effort to 'deleted1s' is our caution for south migrators that come in and take their paychecks back home for their families (its not soo bad but our economy suffers a lot with that behavior + they never grow a patriotic duty for SLO, sometimes they even disrespect it... (still going on im afraid... ,C ) U should see how many migrant casses for nationality we accept ... However it is very hard to prove U are eligible for nationality, even married couples that come in have to do a psychiatry test and other tests to prove they are actualy married and arent fakeing it...(many casses like that before...). Soooo all of this '' lame paperwork accidents '' ... im afraid thats completely normal in SLO, since we are only a 30 year old country sooo legislation and corecting the broken laws in our country takes a loooot of missfire laws and try-out laws to get it right.... U would be amazed how hard it is to get any document from the country itself. But we still try and welcome all our neighbors, because we are ALL actualy '' balkan people mixed '' + we have that '' special word '' in the name! ,D I honestly hope this clears up ur picture a little bit and u see both sides + and - (same thing for Izrael - every1 hated them but now...) Still great analysis and thank you for the effort ,D

[@ananovak1275]

All erased immigrants from other Yugoslav republics in Slovenia had the opportunity to accept Slovenian citizenship, but they did not want it during the certain time they had to acquire Slovenian citizenship, because dual citizenship does not exist in our country. Many, however, did not want to renounce their original citizenship. After the deadline for acquiring the citizenship of ex-Yugoslavs in Slovenia passed, a problem arose because a different law applies to acquiring Slovenian citizenship.

[@user-wp4xt5yv4o]

Again, dear James, the map is not correct. :) But that aside, it's nice to see a Western Yugoslav-themed video in which Serbs are not portrayed as sole contributors to the horrors of the 90's collapse. And, again, a nicely done video. :)

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. Much appreciated! And the point about the map duly noted. :-) By the way, keep an eye out for the video the week after next. Assuming there’s no big developments elsewhere, I hope to do another Yugoslavia video. You might want to see it.

[@user-wp4xt5yv4o]

@@JamesKerLindsay Sure I would, looking forward to it! Thanks!

[@ikosic]

What's wrong with the map?

[@MrAfricatraveller]

It seems perfectly reasonable to me to inform and enable people to comply with your laws of citizenship, then to deny them citizenship when the fail Tom only,

[@sarahmcarthur3660]

My great grandmother was being born in Yugoslavia, it says in my DNA on ancestry that I am Croatian but on 23 and me it says in Slovenian. Not really sure which one 🤷‍♀️

[@JamesKerLindsay]

To be honest, there is unlikely to be much difference, especially in the border areas. Slovenes and Croats are very closely related genetically. (And their languages are very close too.) Indeed, in many cases they will fall within a broader Balkan group on genetic tests.

[@sjboxoffice]

@@JamesKerLindsay did I told you? I am Croatian, I'm spat image of my gran grandad Slovenian - let's call him- grandpa Sava Kranj (I sware- I could not believe - it was the only member of a family that look the same as me in photos- same eyes, same face - just I do not have mustaches- jet- I understand just 1 Slovenian word. How do you explain that? That One word I learn- playing seek and hide with other Slovenian children- it is NUMBER 4. Every Slovenian knows Croatian- day today, rarely which Croatian know more Slovenian than the word 4 (if). How would you explain that? Was In Slovenia in 2016. I speak English= and I demand English

[@MihaMarkelj]

@@JamesKerLindsay a historian and also a geneticist..... I rest my case (Jack of all trades, master of none)

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@MihaMarkelj Strange comment. Only die-hard nationalists believe in blood purity these days. It’s all nonsense.

[@AlexanderNovak0]

No true...those ppl who were erased were the ones who didnt apply for citizenship in time that were given to them. Then they cryed.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

This isn't the case. Certainly, there were those who didn't apply because they were lazy or just didn't think it would have an effect. But there were many who failed to meet the deadline for other reasons. They may have been out of the country - and there was not online application system at the time. They may have had health problems, including mental health issues. Many were also poorly educated. It was an exceedingly tight deadline. For comparison, the UK has introduced a system for EU citizens to stay. This was open for several years and by the deadline it is still believed that several hundred thousand failed to apply in time. I think it is important not to buy into the story that they were all traitors or arrogant. Some were. Many others weren't. They were ordinary people who fell through the cracks for a variety of reasons.

[@AlexanderNovak0]

@@JamesKerLindsay sorry you can't compare countries. You are not Slovenian or from any Balkan state and you judge the culture or costumes from point of your culture. If I judge actions of your country through my ways would be funny. You can not expect from country that just got independence to act fair and square. UK as so called democratic country does it act always accordingly. No state or country behave or act always fairly but in their own interest. Of course Slovenia didn't want to give those ppl citizenship lightly and ppl supported this and still mostly do. Look at raises problem in UK and violence... disaster. You make a video of Slovenian injustice to some minority...look at your own garbage in your country. Look into discrimination Austrians make towards us ....grow up.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@@AlexanderNovak0 I tried to be reasonable. But clearly it’s no use. Instead, you offer up the standard response of nationalists and bigots the world over. Tell someone they’re an ignorant foreigner and to mind their own business. How dare an outsider question what a country does to its own minorities!? Fortunately, the European Court of Human Rights looked into this and found Slovenia was at fault. I’ll settle on its findings.

[@AlexanderNovak0]

@@JamesKerLindsay No matter what that didn't change much...

[@TetaCilka-el5wh]

Thanks to see my country covered. Slovenians went to vote about this topic

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I know that it was a difficult topic for the country, but it was an important case. (And despite the comments from some viewers, I actually know and love Slovenia. I have been many times.)

[@freezing5]

Last week the official apology was made. I found Borut Pahor's speech quite moving.

[@rogerdarthwell5393]

Sorry if I am late, I expected you to do a video on Slovenia's 30th anniversary of independence, but I never knew about these erased people, thank you very much!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you Roger. I did say that I had a rather lesser known topic lined up for Slovenia. :-) Seriously, it is a really tragic situation. And it is rather incredibly that it is not better known. Then again, with everything else going on at the time, this may have seemed rather less significant. Although, as I hoped to show, the effects were devastating on those directly affected. As it happens, I actually knew one of the erased. Fortunately, his wife and children were able to get Slovenian citizenship, which helped. But things became very hard for him.

[@rogerdarthwell5393]

@@JamesKerLindsay Glad to hear that at least his children have citizenship! Still the story of the Ten Day War is fascinating in itself, apparently both Austria and Italy had to send their armed forces to the Slovenian border because they feared that the war might have spilledover to their countries

[@LucicIvana]

I think “Yugoslav” was just an umbrella term for all of the nations + ethnic minorities who have been living in that country. People were simply proud of that country but in reality, everyone was affiliating with their own national and even regional identity. For example, I live in Vojvodina and despite being Serbs, many of us here call ourselves Vojvodinians (or “Vojvođani” in serbian). And nationalist politicians have effectively destroyed Yugoslavia and I have to admit, I see it everyday how the main leaders such as Milošević, Tuđman, Izetbegović, Kučan are all despised in their countries and blamed for all the mess. And rightfully so. But that was the time of economic crisis, attempt of democratization of Yugoslavia which miserably failed, rise of nationalism, destructive wars and mafia with a large connection to the government. It was unsustainable.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks Ivana. Great points. Identity is a complex thing. And it was especially so in Yugoslavia. Vojvodina is a truly fascinating region, for all sorts of reasons. I know it very well indeed and have spent a lot of time there. In fact, I am writing this comment from just outside of Novi Sad! :-)

[@LucicIvana]

@@JamesKerLindsay Heheh yeah, Vojvodina is very unique in its diverse population and culture. I live in Subotica and I am some 8-9 km away from the Hungarian border. I also have Hungarian and Slovak neighbors. One can only wish to have people like them to be there for you whenever you need something and vice versa of course. Have fun in NS

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@@LucicIvana Thanks. It’s really nice to be back. I have a soft spot for Vojvodina. :-) I passed by Subotica earlier as we drove down from Vienna.

[@BlazVeber69]

As a Slovenian who lived thru a brotherly war. I would rather ask that question to Croats and Serbs. We still love our Yugo brothers, but they pretty much all hate us. Slava Slovanom! Sužnjem Evropejcem in Arabcem tisoče let!

[@TGSSMC]

Dude, maybe our polititians hate eachother, or they want us to think so. I am a Croat, i have many Friends from Slovenia, they Spend Summers in Croatia, we Spend Winters in Slovenia, we eat and Drink together, we laugh and cry together. I don't Care what anyone says or what country we live in, IT will be so forever.

[@BlazVeber69]

@@TGSSMC God bless you brother. I will always love to come to your Dalmatian coastline.

[@allah-a2353]

They hate you because you are as rich as all of them combined and one of the best countries to live in. Something they cant do.

[@kosarkosar7683]

The republics in Yugoslavia had their republican citizenship and permanent residence if you went to live in another republic. It is necessary to know the interwar nationalist propaganda against Slovenes in order to understand this problem. People who had permanent residence in Slovenia and did not deregister it when they had already moved to the west or to other republics during the Yugoslav era were erased. There were also a few who came back to live later or lived permanently in Slovenia, but these were mostly Slovenes by nationality. In those conditions when Slovenes were still learning to manage the country, they thought that people would register themselves within 6 months, so that they would even know who still lives in the country and who does not. However, it must also be said that these erased people were able to return to Slovenia at any time and regain their permanent residence, which was not possible in other Yugoslav republics, only if you were of the majority nationality. There were also such cases, for example, an Albanian who lived illegally in Germany and the Germans wanted to extradite him to Serbia because he had Serbian republican citizenship, which is more than just a permanent residence that expires in six months if you do not live in the country, but it was rejected by the Serbs. Only Slovenes wanted to take this Albanian because he once lived in Slovenia for some time during Yugoslavia and had a permanent residence which he did not deregister. It is not a problem for the erased to get their permanent residence back in Slovenia, but now that they see how fair and orderly Slovenia is, they want to have Slovenian citizenship under the same conditions as they were offered in 1991. They do not sue because they do not get the status they had in Yugoslavia, but because they would like citizenship and compensation for the time when they were not in Slovenia and were erased from their permanent residence. Due to propaganda, because no one in Slovenia stopped it and did not pay attention to how foreign nationalist forces would try to portray Slovenian independence as a criminal act, the lie became the truth. The Slovenes needed not only to learn how to run the country, but also to teach the nation that in reality other nations are much more nationalistic and wish them ill and do not have the same idea of ​​the world. It is necessary to know the history, how foreigners ruled the Slovenes for a thousand years. They ruled the Slovenes by denationalizing them and confusing them by inciting one Slovene against another, and so a strong unified affiliation never developed. And they were also taught how incompetent they were that if it weren’t for their masters, others would destroy them. It is also important to know that other nations considered themselves more and looked down on the Slovenes because of their nationalist propaganda, so that at the beginning it was beneath their honor to cooperate and accept the new state. Due to the confusion about belonging to either communism or Yugoslavia or pan Slavism or the newly created state, politicians quickly began to take advantage of this without conscience and thus deepen the rift between Slovenes, so that Slovenes have no idea how others treat them, because they quarrel with each other and have their own themes. In Slovenia, there is almost a civil war between the old communist elite, which took over the country practically after independence again, because the newly formed parties did not get acquainted with politics and did not remove the former elite from the main positions and media. The Slovenes in Yugoslavia were the most enslaved nation in the world, because no other nation had to give so much for other nations. If we had not left Yugoslavia, given Slovenia's economic backwardness due to the withdrawal of its funds, Slovenia would be less developed today than Bosnia. In terms of purchasing power, it was already captured by Serbia in the 1990s. In Slovenia, immigrants received all the best apartments, but Slovenes sometimes had to wait for years to get their turn. And many did not pay the bills because they saw Slovenia as their prey and no one could do anything to them. Also because during the Yugoslav era, due to high inflation, the Serbs gave their Serb people stamps to sell to Slovenes at high prices, and a hundred other things could be said about it, so in the end independence was the only option if they did not want to go bankrupt or however, to emigrate from Yugoslavia, as forced by the authorities last year in Yugoslavia.

[@kosarkosar7683]

@GreatEurasia The same thing is understood in Slovenia by all nations, but there are always some who listen to propaganda from foreign sources, who convince them that they must resist Slovenia, otherwise they will betray their nation, although after 30 years the emotions have calmed down. Because they realized that they did not have such a strong army that they could rule. In the last 30 years, there have been more immigrants from the former Yugoslavia in Slovenia than before, mainly due to greater economic progress and more employment opportunities. Even Slovenia has enabled workers from the former Yugoslav republics to send workers directly from their countries to the Slovenian Employment Service to work as if they were in the EU. It even offers them free study with financial aid if they come to study in Slovenia. Slovenes do not see these immigrants as foreigners as if they were brothers, they do not even have to speak Slovene with Slovenes, but in their own language. Even if they do not understand Slovene, Slovenes speak Serbo-Croatian with them. Serbo-Croatian in Slovenia can be spoken by practically everyone, because they listen to music in this language and are used to talking to immigrants from an early age in their language. Young people all understand almost everything, only some do not know how to respond well in the Serbo-Croatian language, because people are different in speaking skills and some are not so much in contact with this language and find it harder to speak.

[@papapeethehunks]

I appreciate this kind of topics so much. There is nothing so small when it comes to issues of human rights violations. It's so easy to ignore when you are fortunate not to be a part of the marginalized 1%. Good to know that EU is looking into this as well for applicant states.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks you so much. And you are absolutely right. Human rights are about individual rights. Every violation, even if it seems small, is a violation of someone's rights. And it will deeply affect that person. People really shouldn't lose sight of this. Great point!

[@kosarkosar7683]

@@JamesKerLindsay The republics in Yugoslavia had their republican citizenship and permanent residence if you went to live in another republic. It is necessary to know the interwar nationalist propaganda against Slovenes in order to understand this problem. People who had permanent residence in Slovenia and did not deregister it when they had already moved to the west or to other republics during the Yugoslav era were erased. There were also a few who came back to live later or lived permanently in Slovenia, but these were mostly Slovenes by nationality. In those conditions when Slovenes were still learning to manage the country, they thought that people would register themselves within 6 months, so that they would even know who still lives in the country and who does not. However, it must also be said that these erased people were able to return to Slovenia at any time and regain their permanent residence, which was not possible in other Yugoslav republics, only if you were of the majority nationality. There were also such cases, for example, an Albanian who lived illegally in Germany and the Germans wanted to extradite him to Serbia because he had Serbian republican citizenship, which is more than just a permanent residence that expires in six months if you do not live in the country, but it was rejected by the Serbs. Only Slovenes wanted to take this Albanian because he once lived in Slovenia for some time during Yugoslavia and had a permanent residence which he did not deregister. It is not a problem for the erased to get their permanent residence back in Slovenia, but now that they see how fair and orderly Slovenia is, they want to have Slovenian citizenship under the same conditions as they were offered in 1991. They do not sue because they do not get the status they had in Yugoslavia, but because they would like citizenship and compensation for the time when they were not in Slovenia and were erased from their permanent residence. Due to propaganda, because no one in Slovenia stopped it and did not pay attention to how foreign nationalist forces would try to portray Slovenian independence as a criminal act, the lie became the truth. The Slovenes needed not only to learn how to run the country, but also to teach the nation that in reality other nations are much more nationalistic and wish them ill and do not have the same idea of ​​the world. It is necessary to know the history, how foreigners ruled the Slovenes for a thousand years. They ruled the Slovenes by denationalizing them and confusing them by inciting one Slovene against another, and so a strong unified affiliation never developed. And they were also taught how incompetent they were that if it weren’t for their masters, others would destroy them. It is also important to know that other nations considered themselves more and looked down on the Slovenes because of their nationalist propaganda, so that at the beginning it was beneath their honor to cooperate and accept the new state. Due to the confusion about belonging to either communism or Yugoslavia or pan Slavism or the newly created state, politicians quickly began to take advantage of this without conscience and thus deepen the rift between Slovenes, so that Slovenes have no idea how others treat them, because they quarrel with each other and have their own themes. In Slovenia, there is almost a civil war between the old communist elite, which took over the country practically after independence again, because the newly formed parties did not get acquainted with politics and did not remove the former elite from the main positions and media. The Slovenes in Yugoslavia were the most enslaved nation in the world, because no other nation had to give so much for other nations. If we had not left Yugoslavia, given Slovenia's economic backwardness due to the withdrawal of its funds, Slovenia would be less developed today than Bosnia. In terms of purchasing power, it was already captured by Serbia in the 1990s. In Slovenia, immigrants received all the best apartments, but Slovenes sometimes had to wait for years to get their turn. And many did not pay the bills because they saw Slovenia as their prey and no one could do anything to them. Also because during the Yugoslav era, due to high inflation, the Serbs gave their Serb people stamps to sell to Slovenes at high prices, and a hundred other things could be said about it, so in the end independence was the only option if they did not want to go bankrupt or however, to emigrate from Yugoslavia, as forced by the authorities last year in Yugoslavia.

[@luxembourgishempire2826]

Honestly, I never knew about this. Thanks for the video James! Slovenia's choice to do something like that really was shameful. Perhaps a video on Luxembourg one day? Or another small country perhaps? I am still confused as to how Singapore became independent lol. I hope all is well with you!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks so much LE! I hope all is well with you. Yes. I’ve still got Singapore in the vault. And I will certainly try to do Luxembourg. :-)

[@kosarkosar7683]

The republics in Yugoslavia had their republican citizenship and permanent residence if you went to live in another republic. It is necessary to know the interwar nationalist propaganda against Slovenes in order to understand this problem. People who had permanent residence in Slovenia and did not deregister it when they had already moved to the west or to other republics during the Yugoslav era were erased. There were also a few who came back to live later or lived permanently in Slovenia, but these were mostly Slovenes by nationality. In those conditions when Slovenes were still learning to manage the country, they thought that people would register themselves within 6 months, so that they would even know who still lives in the country and who does not. However, it must also be said that these erased people were able to return to Slovenia at any time and regain their permanent residence, which was not possible in other Yugoslav republics, only if you were of the majority nationality. There were also such cases, for example, an Albanian who lived illegally in Germany and the Germans wanted to extradite him to Serbia because he had Serbian republican citizenship, which is more than just a permanent residence that expires in six months if you do not live in the country, but it was rejected by the Serbs. Only Slovenes wanted to take this Albanian because he once lived in Slovenia for some time during Yugoslavia and had a permanent residence which he did not deregister. It is not a problem for the erased to get their permanent residence back in Slovenia, but now that they see how fair and orderly Slovenia is, they want to have Slovenian citizenship under the same conditions as they were offered in 1991. They do not sue because they do not get the status they had in Yugoslavia, but because they would like citizenship and compensation for the time when they were not in Slovenia and were erased from their permanent residence. Due to propaganda, because no one in Slovenia stopped it and did not pay attention to how foreign nationalist forces would try to portray Slovenian independence as a criminal act, the lie became the truth. The Slovenes needed not only to learn how to run the country, but also to teach the nation that in reality other nations are much more nationalistic and wish them ill and do not have the same idea of ​​the world. It is necessary to know the history, how foreigners ruled the Slovenes for a thousand years. They ruled the Slovenes by denationalizing them and confusing them by inciting one Slovene against another, and so a strong unified affiliation never developed. And they were also taught how incompetent they were that if it weren’t for their masters, others would destroy them. It is also important to know that other nations considered themselves more and looked down on the Slovenes because of their nationalist propaganda, so that at the beginning it was beneath their honor to cooperate and accept the new state. Due to the confusion about belonging to either communism or Yugoslavia or pan Slavism or the newly created state, politicians quickly began to take advantage of this without conscience and thus deepen the rift between Slovenes, so that Slovenes have no idea how others treat them, because they quarrel with each other and have their own themes. In Slovenia, there is almost a civil war between the old communist elite, which took over the country practically after independence again, because the newly formed parties did not get acquainted with politics and did not remove the former elite from the main positions and media. The Slovenes in Yugoslavia were the most enslaved nation in the world, because no other nation had to give so much for other nations. If we had not left Yugoslavia, given Slovenia's economic backwardness due to the withdrawal of its funds, Slovenia would be less developed today than Bosnia. In terms of purchasing power, it was already captured by Serbia in the 1990s. In Slovenia, immigrants received all the best apartments, but Slovenes sometimes had to wait for years to get their turn. And many did not pay the bills because they saw Slovenia as their prey and no one could do anything to them. Also because during the Yugoslav era, due to high inflation, the Serbs gave their Serb people stamps to sell to Slovenes at high prices, and a hundred other things could be said about it, so in the end independence was the only option if they did not want to go bankrupt or however, to emigrate from Yugoslavia, as forced by the authorities last year in Yugoslavia.

[@bojanstare8667]

@@kosarkosar7683 In Yugoslavia we have had all Yugoslavian citizenship, not repulican one. We have had just different nationality (what wasn`t the same) depends of your own nationality. I have remembered in 1983 by passing papers for Faculty study. My friend has written in place for citizenship Slovenian and he hasn`t had to change it to Yugoslavian. He has had a lot of problems with police. So he hasproved just Yugoslavian citizenship was able in Yugoslavia.

[@kosarkosar7683]

@@bojanstare8667 It was republican-Yugoslav citizenship, which was valid only within Yugoslavia. In all the former republics, those who did not have this were treated and erased. Unlike the fact that you were able to arrange this in Slovenia without a bribe, you only showed that you had a permanent residence in Slovenia at any time, not only in the last year, if you wanted to be registered again. In other republics, they even erased those who were born in the republic and emigrated from it through Yugoslavia or abroad, unless you were a member of a majority nation. It is true that everywhere in Yugoslavia at that time they had existential problems and disorder in transition, because no one was ready for everything that happened. However, in Slovenia they at least admitted that the system was not perfect and they were never denied re-application of documents, even if they no longer lived in Slovenia at the time. Of the 180,000 people with other republican-Yugoslav papers who had permanent residence in Slovenia and lived in Slovenia at the time, 500 were erased because they had not edited new papers until one year after independence, and it was not known who still lived in republic. About 1,000 of them later returned across the already established border and all had permanent residence status without any problems. They just had to wait for the bureaucracy to change the documents, but they were not allowed citizenship because they did not live in Slovenia at the time, but came across the border back from Western Europe, mostly where they worked. Others had built houses in their hometowns and felt at home there, never even thinking of living in Slovenia permanently. Only in Macedonia did this problem begin to be publicly acknowledged last year. In other republics, they will never admit that they themselves have erased people because they do not want to show that they too have made mistakes, and they are afraid that others will use their confession in propaganda against them. Because the belittling of others is still very much alive in Yugoslavia. In Slovenia, this accusation appeared as a belittling of those parties that participated in independence, as nowadays covid measures against the ruling parties, because there is a strong struggle between the parties and they are not interested in how it will be used against the state, according to the interpellation events for nationalist propaganda against Slovenes.

[@bojanstare8667]

@@kosarkosar7683 First, what do you mean with republican-Yugoslav citizenship? Second, all citizens of Slovenia (residents) have got certificate, if he or she have had Slovenian nationality in evidences. Others have had to ask for new citizenship of Slovenia. Even my father (born in Ljubljana, but he was in evidence in Čabar, Croatia) has had to ask for new citizenship. Also his friend, who has mother, born in Austria, have had to do the same way. Residence is more complicated. If you have permanent residence in Slovenia, youshouldn`t loose it through the other nationality. You could be asked by government to arrange papers for a new citizenship. It was their will, if they wanted to have new citizenship or not. But government have deleted their permanent residence papers without law basics. Asa matter of fact, it was just this idiot reaction of ministry for internal affairs, which has made such mistake. And that`s why EU court for human rights have had all the evidence for a conviction. Evidently government act was fair, but not legal. Same as todays government make a lot of mistakes to override laws and constitution. Same way everytime when conservative partei is in government. It is really crazy.

[@HomoSapiensMember]

you state the government showed little interest despite regular public addresses on the matter, news reports and polls; it was not an issue anyone tried hiding and at the same time a proper disaster even now, its difficult for anyone to get citizenship there

[@janeausten6584]

Anyone who had a permanent residence in Slovenia at the time of the break-up of Yugoslavia was able to apply for citizenship. Citizenship in the former Yugoslavia was twofold: republican and Yugoslav. In 1991, no one set any conditions for acquiring citizenship other than residence. No other country has granted citizenship in such an easy way. Ignorance in acquiring rights such as citizenship does not excuse anyone. Everyone had the opportunity to learn that they only have to submit an application that will be automatically approved. Regardless of nationality, language, work status and other personal circumstances. The entire public was informed about this in all media: newspapers, TV, radio, all administrative and state bodies. In the 21st century, probably everyone can read, but if they don't, they can listen and ask… The European Court of Human Rights was never informedof the actual circumstances in Slovenia in 1991.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

I can absolutely assure you that the ECHR was perfectly aware of the circumstances. In fact it’s bizarre to even otherwise. This is not some joke court. It is the highest such legal body in Europe, filled by leading legal minds. And do you serious think that the Slovenian Government wouldn’t have laid out the full details of its position?

[@janeausten6584]

@@JamesKerLindsay Unfortunately, the Slovenian government has focused exclusively on legal facts, not factual facts. The real facts were: the citizenship fee was less than 2 beers (unique in Europe) at the time of a formal application. Citizenship was granted to all those who applied for it above. The application had already been formally written, everyone just entered personal data in it and signed it (the second unique in Europe). If it was for those who immigrated to Slovenia for economic reasons - Slovenia was the first in the former Yugoslavia in economic terms and development and wages, etc. pride greater than simply signing the application for citizenship of the Republic of Slovenia, then even God could not help them then. I repeat: the only condition was permanent residence. Anyone in their right mind would just lick their fingers at such a grant of citizenship… Slovenska vlada se je na žalost skoncentrirala izključno na pravna dejstva, ne na dejanska dejstva. Dejanska dejstva so bila: pristojbina za državljanstvo je znašala ob formalni prošnji manj kot sta stala 2 piva (unikum v Evropi). Državljanstvo so dobili popolnoma vsi, ki so zanj vložili zgoraj navedeno vlogo. Vloga je bila že formalno napisana, vsak je vanjo samo vpisal osebne podatke in jo podpisal (drugi unikum v Evropi). Če je bil pri tistih, ki so se zaradi ekonomskih razlogov priselili v Slovenijo - Slovenija je bila v bivši Jugoslaviji prva v ekonomskem pogledu in razvitosti in plačah itd. ponos večji od enostavnega podpisa na vlogi za državljanstvo Republike Slovenije, potem jim tudi Bog takrat ni mogel pomagati. Ponavljam: edini pogoj je bil stalno bivališče. Vsak pri zdravi pameti bi si ob takem podeljevanju državljanstva samo obliznil prste…

[@gperhan180]

wrong..all these people will have a chance to become Slovenian citizens..half of them are soldiers of Yugoslav army who attacked Slovenia...half is calculating when Yugoslavia will win and become Serbians citizens..

[@mirci22]

They have more than enough time to arrange all needed papers, ... They shouldn't get any cent

[@EvgeniPetrov]

There is no such thing as a yugoslav. Except if it is meant in the way soviet was used for people of USSR

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks, but not really true. There were most certainly Yugoslavs, in the sense that there are British, but then people can define themselves as English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish.

[@EvgeniPetrov]

​@@JamesKerLindsay Well, you could have said European or even just human. Not saying if erased are serbs, croats or roma. Who were they? Yugoslav has as broad meaning as a soviet.

[@milantrajceski8322]

@@EvgeniPetrov Who were they? South Slavs. People from Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia&Hercegovina. Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Do you need any more info?

[@stunimbus1543]

Giving citizenship to those who took up arms - is that really required?

[@JamesKerLindsay]

This neglects the fact that very few of those opposed the state. There were lots of reasons why people didn’t apply in time. They may have been ill. They may have had mental health problems. They may have been out of the country. They had a a short window of opportunity to apply. And there were no online forms then. The Slovenian Supreme Court decided the government was wrong. The ECHR did as well. Just accept it.

[@colindeer9657]

In fairness to the majority. I worked for a very large corporation. We would go out of our way to provide the safest possible places to work in and yet there would always be people who would not want to follow a simple path of action or instruction either bc, they don’t care or their thoughts take them away from the importance of following an instruction and then blame everyone else for their lack of taking responsibility for their own actions. Also if you had previously committed crimes against the people of the state, then I would have thought that the state might not want to have you as a new citizen. Wouldn’t you think that would make sense in a peaceful society???

[@viperexpress305]

Any country will protect there way of life or die !! You sound like you are English & look at your country !

[@alengrm7488]

1:41 Quick correction, Slovenia lies in central Europe, not southeastern😅

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I know it might like to think it is. And it certainly tells everyone it is. But in most peoples view it is SE Europe. It is after all a south Slavic nation. Hence its inclusion in Yugoslavia.

[@jasonrhtx]

@@JamesKerLindsay From historical, religious, geographical and geopolitical, cultural, and linguistic perspectives, Slovenia and these countries are considered Central European: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe.

[@nemanjajovanovic2957]

@@JamesKerLindsay Great answer. Those people who feel bad about saying Slovenia is part of south eastern Europe are ridiculous as nothing in this world. Perhaps we should even start calling them a germanic or celtic nation 😂 bunch of.... 😄

[@nemanjajovanovic2957]

What's the point of your comment? Slovenia is part of south eastern Europe. It's Slovenias location, and if Serbia and Italy are southern Europe, why Slovenia isn't? Do you feel more confident if someone calls Slovenia central European? Like that's gonna make them better than they are.. I just don't understand some of you people

[@JamesKerLindsay]

As though Wikipedia isn’t being edit bombed by loads of Slovenes. 😀 I’ve spent my career working on SE Europe. And Slovenia certainly falls in my patch. Sorry. Seriously, though, Slovenia needs to get over this hang up.

[@s.s.p.9680]

Did they own private property? For how long did they pay to pension funds? It depends on what the state generates it's money in social funds from. Many people born in UAE in 1960 will never receive citizenship, because the money is from oil.

[@ethanvibritannia3993]

I've just found this channel and it's quite enjoyable and informative! Thanks for the content James!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you. I’m really glad you find it useful.

[@kazupemaruta6990]

Please do a feature on how the Russian minority is treated in the Baltics after collapse of the USSR! In the Baltics, if there is any suspicion you might be a Russian, you are denied education, medicine, pension, applying for citizenship, protection from the law, a chance to learn the Baltic language, and you are forced to live in city sewers or WWII style ghettoes. Oh, the hardship. But no matter -- soon the mighty righteous Putler will free Ukrainians of their delusions of statehood by shooting everyone who might be a Nazi in the back of the head. Then Putler will be able to free the poor oppressed Russians from the ungrateful Baltic pseudodonations invented by Lenin. Yes, the treatment of Russians in Baltics has been absolutely atrocious. After Baltics regained independence they suddenly turned from loving Russians to hating them for some unfathomable reason. And that is even after the Baltics were saved from the evil of capitalism by the wonderful communist economy thus becoming more rich and prosperous than Russia. Russian regime even had to resort to re-educating any Baltic nationalists by throwing them out of the windows in order for Baltics not to harm themselves. Not to mention sending the poor starving Baltic children to Siberian holiday camps for fattening up. All at a great expense to Russians. Very ungrateful.

[@answerman9933]

Sounds like a reversal of fortune for ethnic Russians to me.

[@UneEtincelleNocturne]

Had me in the first half, not gonna lie 😂

[@LIKEICARE84]

I know a guy that was erased. Let me cite what he said when Slovenia becomed independant:" Haha we (Serbs) will fuck you up so bad that nobody will ever think about independant Slovenia ever again." He didn't apply for citizenship.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. There were some like that. No one denies it. But there were many who weren’t. A war was starting. People may have been out if the country. (And there was no online anything in those days.) Others may have been elderly, ill or had mental health issues. That’s the point. It was a deeply unjust policy. And I’ve always found it troubling when people support a policy that punishes the innocent to get back at the guilty!

[@LIKEICARE84]

@@JamesKerLindsay I never suported it. In fact I protested about it back when I was in highschool. Not as mutch because of the people that got erased. But because the whole thing just took too long and nothing was done about it. Deport them, give them citizenship...whatever just get it over with. Everyone knew it would hurt our country in the long run.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Yes. It was a very shortsighted policy of the government. Populism and regard for human rights don’t often mix well. A surprisingly number of people are happy to ditch human rights - until it affects them!

[@luaye1764]

It's not about the citizenship it's about residency

[@rodmilankov8966]

During the WWII the occupiers forced families from Slovenia to move to Serbia. Their intent was to make their lives miserable. However, Serbian people welcomed refugees from Slovenia like their own and helped them to resettle. After the war they kept in touch for many years. Then in the 90s, mr. Zimmermann noded to Slovenuan oposition and that was the beginnig of the end.

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏😐 Wow. It's very good to bring these issues to light

[@MCSelko]

Thank you James, i live in Slovenia my whole life, but my parents are from Bosnia and i never knew about this. Keep up the good work👏👍

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Hi Selver, thanks so much. That’s really interesting that you hadn’t heard about this. I knew that many Slovenes didn’t. But I thought it would be well known amongst the other communities, given how many were affected. Although the large majority of those from other parts of Yugoslavia did get citizenship, I rather thought that within the community you would know people who had been erased. Perhaps many just went back to Bosnia (it was 30 years ago now) and those who sorted it out just put it behind them and moved on with their lives. I knew about it as I know a lot of Bosnians in Slovenia and one of them was erased. The others had all had their citizenship and were doing well.

[@MCSelko]

I only know my parents got their citizenship granted in 1992, and i was born in 1994 as a Slovenian citizen, so we didn't really have any problems like other people you explained on the video. But i know a lot of people in our town went back to Bosnia in 1996 after the war ended. Some probably went because they didn't apply for citizenship ore their own reasons. I don't really remember if we were taught anything about this in school, maybe on universities but in primary and secondary school i couldn't tell you for sure. I think it would be beneficial for new generations to learn everything about how our country came to be and how it effected other people and minorities. Again great video, hope for more like this in the future.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. That’s so interesting to hear, especially about many going back to Bosnia in 1996. All the ones I know chose to stay, but some went back to Bosnia when they retired - taking a more generous Slovenian pension with them. In any case, I certainly hope to do more on the Balkans.

[@boruttrost5750]

I'm surprised you didn't know about this. The film Izbrisana about the erased was the most watched Slovenian film in 2019. You missed it, obviously. I don't think this gets taught in schools, though.

[@mujobesic5280]

ne seeeriiii

[@fifi23o5]

As usual, there are two sides of the story. There were a lot of people from other parts of Yugoslavia in Slovenia. Quite a lot of them didn't have their legal status settled. Some speculated with benifits, they lived and worked in Slovenia, but had their residence in other places for the benifits an taxes. I personally know a case of a married couple where a man had his residence in Slovenia and his wife had her residence somewhere else just to collect the benifits of separate life, but in real life they lived together. At the independence of Slovenia they calculated their options, they had the option for his wife to apply for citizenship in Slovenia, but they calculated, thinking that in the case something goes wrong here, we can move there. Subsequentially, he had Slovenian citizenship, his wife was ''erased''. Another case I know is a case of my friend. Her parents moved to Slovenia, worked there, had a family, lived as normal people do. But they registered the residence of their youngest daughter with their parents in the other part of Yugoslavia for benifits. She didn't even realize she didn't have residence in Slovenia. After independence there was a deadline to register residence which was a condition to get citizenship. She was young and oblivious and she didn't get her papers in order. Consequentially, her parents who moved to Slovenia got their citizenship automatically, their daughter, my friend, who was born in Slovenia, was ''errased''. It took her many years and effort to get her rightful citizenship. I don't condone our government for doing what they did, problem, for me, is how they resolved the problem. There were cases where ''errasing'' was justified, in some cases it was not. In most cases it was pure speculations and calculations (going wrong and blaming others), in some cases it was misunderstanding, or, sometimes, pure human errors. Each case should be processed individually.

[@magnvss]

The analysis (unsurprisingly) is lacking. And it’s not about the denial of right of those minority groups (that’s was and is a bad and sad reality) but about why a country would take such draconian and harsh measures with a group of people that it suspects has linguistic, cultural, even moral allegiance to a bigger, neighboring country. The examples abound ALL AROUND the world, but if you want to take Ukraine as a recent example of: “See, that minority should be protected (and perpetuated and separated, and keep their language etc.)” you can and will understand the dangers of keeping a country divided instead of integrated under a national model. EUROPE has a LONG (long, long, long) history of using minority groups as excuses for MILITARY interventions, every people with a superficial understanding of the continent’s history know this. For Americans, being from a country forged by immigrants (from all around the world) that see as natural the confluence towards a type of national values (and language and what not), it’s harder to understand because in America, birth give you the nation’s citizenship and all the locals' rights. In Europe… it’s not that easy or direct, for the reason of mentioned above (if so, in the past you could simply force-invade another country and claim lands just because you moved entire foreign populations to settle on a taken territory and just declare it’s yours because they were foreign people already being born there). This didn't avoid the migrations but it made for a complex view on who's on the side of the "local" ruler and who is a (forever fake) "foreigner", even through the centuries. When winds turned and you belonged to the "right" conquering ethnicity, well, guess what. Sad but true. This doesn’t justify erasing people nor mistreatment and what not but you also have to understand that for the locals, many times, those groups were the privileged ones who represented the footing of the bigger conqueror onto the land, people who (many times) despised the local customs, language, and that even avoided mingling with the locals. So (sometimes) that kind of disparaging love… was given back when circumstances reversed.

[@s.s.p.9680]

What is "traitor"?

[@MrAfricatraveller]

It seems reasonable to me that you must comply with the laws of citizenship after being informed and enabled to do so, especially when >90% of participants voted for that country to exist and again >90% agreed you should comply - and given that many of those who didn’t comply did so because they didn’t want that citizenship because they were in a tiny minority who were opposed to the existence of the country. Indeed, some had even taken up arms to prevent the existence of the country! Rather than a legal process to secure the rights that they had previously specifically declined, it seems there should rather have been legal process of treason against them!