Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time Bentley & Penelope Love & Betrayal **SPOILERS**

[@firefly81492]

This has got to be one of the biggest betrayals in video game history

[@smkanim2009]

firefly81492 Actually.... Why do we have to leave right now...?

[@XJ0461C]

+lazicful You think I didn't know about the ships from the beginning? Any schoolboy could've figured that out! Face it genius, you've been played...

[@smkanim2009]

***** what

[@XJ0461C]

lazicful Harry Flynn from Uncharted 2!

[@SabeNo-rh7mb]

Even half the betrayals in Metal Gear weren't this brutal.

[@1cioda]

im sorry. but they ruined one of the best aspects of the 3rd game. Penelope seemed like she was rly happy with bently. and suddenly she wants to fight and kill cooper. wtf.

[@Lucifronz]

Lazy writing. I didn't care for when they added her in, but I had adjusted. It worked. Then they just do a 180 and change her personality. She was a bit of a troublemaker, but they turned her into a selfish jerk. I don't care if they wanted to remove her, but they gave it such a piss-poor attempt, it left a sour taste in my mouth.

[@sandansaiyan5675]

cioda i think if sly 5 release she'll become good

[@Molluck1]

This kind of writting make me missed Sucker Punch

[@chloeisiah5043]

yep she almost/nearly murder him.

[@xnortheast1106]

Shut up

[@Knuckles8864]

Bentley: "That mech design is sooo 2005!" Ha! I get it! Because that's when Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves came out, and marks Penelope's first appearance.

[@Hoxgene]

nice

[@isaacwall4951]

SooMungry: Yeah, ours is 2013

[@rappingbeaniedog347]

I feel like if Penelope was gonna do a turn over like this, I would've shown her and Bentley discussing their creative differences that would turn into arguments. Penelope could've argued that they were wasting their time on the Cooper Legacy because Sly abandoned it for the sake of a cop and that they could be doing so much more and make money on top of it, since the stuff they DID get wouldn't last them forever. Bentley would firmly go against the idea, and never EVER think of letting his best friend's most valued artifact be left unattended. It would result in a quiet break up, and Penelope would look for oppurtunities somewhere and run into Le Paradox, but wouldn't know what he wanted YET. Le Paradox could've used her resentment towards Sly being the main reason she and Bentley broke up as fuel to aid in his quest. I dunno.

[@kidprime6863]

Exactly, Penelope would believe she and Bentley are wasting their talent and time protecting the treasures of a retired thief when they could be out there pulling all sorts of heists with their technological skills, becoming master criminals themselves.

[@kuraito1346]

She not only betrayed the Cooper gang. She really betrayed Bentley’s heart.

[@Shojoboy]

Another thing about all this that doesn't make sense is this: People say Penelope only joined the team so she could get to the Cooper Vault, if that was the case, why didn't she betray them when Sly opened it and went in with Bently and Murray? She could've worked with Mr.M and than betrayed him afterwards and gotten rid of the others. And also if this was how she was from the beginning, wouldn't The Guru have sensed something and told the others?

[@Team-oo8bb]

I feel like clockwerk is behind this but not directly. If you remember how one of clockwerk's eye is in the safe in episode 3 maybe someone got the other eye and used on Penelope to make her think Sly is keeping Bentley from showing his true potential.

[@Shojoboy]

Tyler Quattlebaum Yep brain washing like the way The Contessa did, you never know

[@wyattdieckmann7553]

Or maybe she built clockwerk

[@jacobmillenbach2561]

Wyatt Dieckmann it’s a common theory and the only thing supporting it is that technology clockwerk used wasn’t advanced in the bc era

[@TheMormonSorceress]

@@Team-oo8bb Or she's going to become clockwork, it's a theory I heard somewhere on KZbin

[@AGJ117]

9:32 Makes sense. Those bars are so wide and she's so skinny that she could literally walk through them.

[@ZikkaChan]

They broke up, and now she's sending him mysterious post cards? STALKER

[@xtendo_64]

Bentley: look whos the simp now

[@sw8330GKEEPER]

I think she felt bad/guilty for what happened and wanted to make up.

[@BeeAre]

I was legitimately disappointed by Penelope going bad. Bentley is so sad. D:

[@chloeisiah5043]

Yeah! He almost start to get know her but now she let him down and break his heart.

[@kidprime6863]

@@chloeisiah5043 That's crappy writing for ya

[@kirbyleggington7205]

I loved Murray's drawing of the gang. That was nice. XD

[@chloeisiah5043]

Me too a picture of friends and teammate.

[@megamovieman101]

Part of me wants to pretend Thieves in Time never happened, or it's just non-canon. Because they really undermined the third game here and had Penelope acting completely out of character.

[@RangerNationDubs]

to be honest, sly three really wasnt all that good. Im actually happy with were this all lead for her chacter

[@Lucifronz]

I know, I fucking hated it. They retconned everything about her just for... what? A new villain? It's just awful writing.

[@RangerNationDubs]

well no they didnt retcon anything, thats not what retconning is. Its just the evolution of her character. especially when most of the team in sly 3 was a villlan in the first place. The panda king and even demitrie became heroes something completely differe from what we saw. So why cant she be a villian

[@RangerNationDubs]

well no she has a point about the concepts of an honorable thief,and she still clearly loves Bentley.And in her mind doing it for him and not the money. Like i said this is just the evolution of her character. Panda king became a nice happy monk.When he was a angry peity person before.That wasnt bad writing at all and neither is this.

[@Lucifronz]

Landin Stewart I do not agree at all. There is no evolution. The Panda King still acts like himself. He's just calmed down since his defeat. They gave a reasonable arc for his storyline, but they did not do the same with Penelope. It's just one fast jolt. One minute she's an ally, the next she's a dick.

[@benjaminp1946]

I just discovered that Penelope's VA also did the voice for Freddi Fish in those Humongous Entertainment kids games back in the day. From wholesome happy fish, to plotting semi-crazed mouse. X)

[@monochaos9442]

Most poorly done good to evil transition ever.

[@XJ0461C]

I'm curious then, how should this have been done if not by highlighting the fact she was a con artist when we first met her? I don't see what was so wrong with the way this was executed. She had the motivation. And no other character would have been a better choice for such a transition. I just wish she'd been utilised better in the actual game.

[@Lucifronz]

They did not set up her as a deceptive character like that. She wasn't heartless and she wasn't selfish. It's fine that they made her a villain, but the effort they put in was nothing short of sad. There needs to be a steady transition not a "HEY I'M A VILLAIN NOW, FUCK YOU" shock moment.

[@XJ0461C]

I get what you're saying but it's like she said, they're thieves. Carmelita and Sly's relationship changes all the time due to circumstance and I'm certain most were not expecting Neyla's actions way back in Sly 2. You never really know someone, no matter how much you think you do, is what I feel they were going for. On top of that, I wouldn't call Penelope "evil" or a "villain". Jealous of Sly for getting most of Bentley's attention? Misguided? Or other stuff that makes an antihero? Yes, that I would definitely say. She should have been utilized more in the game itself, in more than one level along with Cyrille even, but I don't understand why choosing her to be the traitor made no sense to so many people. Plus when you think about it, it kind of had to happen. Cyrille wasn't competent enough to make a time machine himself.

[@alliancegaming8835]

LunarD3A7H Penelope tricked everyone when she was lying about the aces completion and about the black baron i was like Bentley when I figured out who the black knight but I thought about it before I knew she was the black knight

[@SabeNo-rh7mb]

@@Lucifronz Keep in mind, those flying competitions of her's regularly got people killed with no sense of remorse, so she never exactly had the best morals compared to the others to begin with. So I can totally buy her turning on the gang later on down the road when you look at it from that standpoint. The real issue I'm having a hard time swallowing is her motive for turning. How do you go from plane pilot scam to weapons manufacturing? At what point during the time she spent with Bentley developing the time machine did she suddenly think " Hmm, maybe we could get rich selling weapons."? And she blames Sly for limiting Bentley's potential? Keep in mind that by that point, Sly had already retired to be with Carmelita, leaving Bentley and the others free to do whatever the heck they wanted to do, and her betrayal was the sole thing that brought Sly back and kicked off the plot in the first place. Maybe the others are right. Maybe brainwashing would've been a better excuse, because her actual reason has more holes in it than a sponge.

[@warlockguy42]

she pulled a neyla

[@ZoneGroveFear]

Rofl hell yea she did.

[@Jaceblue04]

While parroting Dr. M.

[@chloeisiah5043]

Neyla? She was the defeat remember from back at sly cooper 2 in band of thieves.

[@lexusdriver1963]

I really wished that Carmelita punches Penelope in the face after beating the boss fight.

[@jorgediaz4742]

I thought the identity of the black knight was sir Raleigh, the first sly villain, it would have been great to see him again

[@crystalrose5646]

Now that I think about it, the tech the black knight had sort of fits Raleigh’s technology expertise

[@lexusdriver1963]

But seeing this part the first time. I wanted to kill Le Paradox so badly like my levels to kill Le Paradox went through the roof like 900%

[@edmartinez925]

Remember that Penelope disguised herself as the Black Baron and the name "Black Knight" gives away her identity.

[@ChiliDUDE27]

DAMNIT SANZARU! You make this spectacular new edition to the francise and then you ruin a great character by making her a rediculous, unbelievable villain. I liked Penelope. It was uplifting. Bentley had found someone he loved.

[@Jaceblue04]

My only real problem with her being a villain isn't that it doesn't make sense (there's a lot in the series that doesn't make sense), it's that her motives aren't very interesting; she just parrots Dr. M.

[@xnortheast1106]

Jaceblue04 it does make sense

[@sumcallmejesus]

@@xnortheast1106 she hates thieves but met Bentley on Thief Net

[@kidprime6863]

@@Jaceblue04 This is definitely a retread of Dr. M and Neyla

[@TylerTheShepherd]

Bentley may still have feelings for her despite the betrayal. At the ending cutscene where Bentley and Murray were looking at sly’s empty seat, Bentley was building a little plane which looks exactly like the plane he and Penelope were happily on during a reminiscing scene in the opening scene for “Of Mice and Mechs.” Of all the planes he can make why would he choose the one that reminds him of the good times with his ex-girlfriend?

[@samanthacoutts4678]

OMG! I didn't notice that!

[@VSaber365]

Penelope... How could you? :,(

[@chloeisiah5043]

Yeah! I thought we were friends. But you let them down. Shame On you!

[@lexusdriver1963]

You can hate me anyway you want for my honesty but to be honest I never liked her.

[@kidprime6863]

Penelope: I want to build weapons, unlock your potential and I hate Sly now. Why? Because crappy writing

[@Controlwomen1232-hj1ew]

She reminds me of Sharon Carter. Aka “power broker” evil traitor they must be punished.

[@VSaber365]

@@Controlwomen1232-hj1ew OH, yeah, I forgot about that. Peggy would be so disappointed in her.

[@kuraito1346]

At the end of the game Penelope escaping and those mysteries post cards Bentley was getting. I’m guessing she is not giving up on Bentley that easily. Which means we haven’t seen the last of her.

[@michaelgrant6899]

Honestly, at this point, the next game would be better off pretending Thieves in Time never happened. Kinda like Twisted Metal Head On pretended TM3 and 4 never happened.

[@peachblossom09]

Penelope had NO right to hurt our boy like that-

[@huntcd2012]

Maybe she was brainwashed. That was Ms. Decibel's ability wasn't it?

[@Dim2134]

+huntcd2012 God I really hope that's how they play it. It doesn't feel like it fit her character at all.

[@kidprime6863]

@huntcd2012 They should have gone with that but noooooo because that would've been "too cliche and predictable".

[@manramen]

It was a bit of a stretch, but I remember playing this chapter. Who else got that feeling of dread before the reveal? I said to myself "why do I feel like i've seen this knight before?" and knew where I had seen it: the Black Baron.

[@nintendolife25]

I did and the fact the just mentioned Penelope before the start of the chapter feels like a red flag considering she was never brought up until that point.

[@fgshtg4262]

I love her because she was fed up copper's gang because Bentley went crazy.

[@Shojoboy]

Sanzaru better fix this, Penelope's betrayal doesn't really make much sense. Why would she care about money like this when she's already well off as it is and she seems to have something against Sly now? I'm confused

[@Mangekyo0221]

I think it was more about her misbelief, that Bentley is "brainwashed and chained down" to Sly, more than really money.

[@CooperGal24]

I'm with Marcus Mosley. It's NOT like Penelope at all!

[@Shojoboy]

CooperGal24 Glad someone agrees with me

[@sandansaiyan5675]

Marcus Mosley are you lidtening?😆She said that she didn't believe Sly and thought that Bentley was a puppet

[@chloeisiah5043]

Territory she steal his time machine plans also she almost murder him. A assistant/servant you mean?

[@MrRevoltRed]

"Chump change?" Please, Cooper is a high class thief, a modern robin hood (except giving to the poor part). And did she forgot the ending to Sly 3? All that gold he "inherited"?

[@nihilrequiem7346]

Actually, according to the tropes, sly and his gang do give some of their ill-gotten fortune to the poor.

[@kidprime6863]

The Cooper Clan aren't ruthless thieves. They prefer to steal from criminals, mob bosses and other thieves. Though they do steal priceless stuff from wealthy people and museums, they don't steal from ordinary people. Because as Sly said in the first game that there's "no honor, no fame and no fun in it". He once said if "you rip off a master criminal, you know you're a master thief".

[@jneal214]

If you ask me, I think she really joined Team Le Paradox because she learned about Sly's fake amnesia and felt like he betrayed the entire gang, including Bentley. This was her psychopathic way of helping Bentley be with loyal friends.

[@Hoxgene]

too good to be true imo

[@kidprime6863]

Pick your poison

[@slylancey]

So many theories I read/have myself on why this betrayal could've happened and what could happen in the next/possibly final game: A. Penelope was tired of the these ideals Bentley kept having her follow, that she ultimately decided to go dark to help Le Paradox erase Sly from existence. The only problem with this theory is that with Sly gone, Bentley remains stuck at the orphanage and Penelope ends up never meeting them or knowing where to look for Bentley because she would've destroyed the original timeline. B. Penelope (while working on the vault) ran into the Clockwerk's eyes and they started to hypnotize her, slowly turning her evil. Reason for this is because in Sly 4, Clockwerk's eyes were in one of the safes in the 4th game. Possibly hinting that Sly probrably saw and kept them after the events of Sly 2 because the eyes didn't age like the rest of Clockwerk's body did, so he didnt want anyone to ever get their hands on it again. C. To continue on Part B, remember how Neyla fused with Clockwerk's body in Sly 2? So maybe Penelope's betrayal wasn't her own will, but rather Neyla still being alive in Clockwerk's eyes, and Penelope being hypnotize by Clockwork's eyes was Neyla transporting her soul into Penelope in order to get revenge on Sly and the gang. This may be a bit far fetched, but I think it would be a cool twist to see. D. Penelope escapes the prison, and goes back in time to meet with Clockwerk. She meets Clockwerk when's he's at his most bitter with the Cooper Gang, and helps him to design the robotic owl suit that helped him stay alive for centuries because of the hate chip Penelope developed. All this in hopes of ending if not Sly himself, then his family from early generations so that Sly could never be born. E. My least favorite theory, but Penelope is Clockwerk... She developed the suit and became fused into it because she got trapped in time by Sly and the gang. And for generations, she's tried to kill off the Cooper family because of what Sly did to her. I personally don't like this theory because it would throw us for a time loop, thus it would make the first two games feel illegitimate imo. F. Same thing as Part A, only difference is Penelope wanted what was best for her AND Bentley, instead of Bentley forcing P to follow Sly's ideals. G. Another theory that I personally don't like, but I can fully understand though is that Penelope was never moralist, but more so an opportunist. She always saw herself as better than others, whether it was the ACES Dogfighting Competition, the Cooper Vault job, OR the Time Traveling. The only reason she did everything was for a chance at wealth, power, and reputation, but she stayed with the gang as long as she did was because she started to fall in love with Bentley and she wanted Bentley to follow in her ideals/values too! These are just some of my thoughts along with other peoples thoughts I found interesting, but I would love to hear what everyone else thinks!

[@kidprime6863]

Theories B or C would've been cool and better plot twists

[@elizabethrg7582]

Theory D was my theory back in the day - except when Penelope is done helping or building Clockwerk, she's outlived her usefulness or got in way above her head and is killed. After all, she's shown as an opportunist in both Sly 3 and 4, and Clockwerk is depicted as the 'real evil' throughout the series - it'd make sense if Penelope finally messed with the wrong person. I don't think she was told in-game who Clockwerk actually was, the main villain in 3 was Dr. M, so it's likely she'd just treat Clockwerk like another means to an end. I guess we'll never know what Sanzaru planned now but it was fun to think of what could've been.

[@edmartinez925]

I actually like your theory C with the whole Neyla going through the Clockwerk eye to brainwash Penelope into turning on the Cooper Gang. After all Neyla was unintentionally responsible for Bentley's injuries that made him crippled for life.

[@BrowncoatGofAZ]

Here’s my theory: she activated the Time Machine; wherever and whenever she was, she ran into a pre-robot Clockwerk. He captured her, learned what she knew about her own time, and then hypnotized or brainwashed her into betrayaing the Cooper Gang to LeParadox. Even LeParadox sending the elephant lady to hypnotize her is a possibility.

[@XJ0461C]

I was shocked, saddened, and appalled by this twist, mostly because of its effect on Bentley, but I don't get why fans were so aggravated by it because it supposedly lacked sense or was executed poorly. Sure, it didn't have the same panache as when Neyla showed her true colors, but it was still a jaw-dropping moment. In fact, I felt it was the biggest jaw-dropper since Dr. M revealed he and McSweeney worked for Sly's father. Penelope doing this doesn't go against her character. She was immediately established as a con artist when we met her and I think she herself outlines why she did it pretty clearly here. It made sense to me, I was heartbroken but I could make sense of the situation and I don't see why anyone cannot. Plus it gave Bentley some great development as a character once he came to terms with it. That's not to say he was a character who needed a lot more development at all, but it demonstrates his inner strength, which is important symbolically when you're physically crippled (think Oracle).

[@Sunday3101]

+The Scarecrow Well said man :')

[@patronsaintofprocrastination]

+The Scarecrow Exactly! I don´t feel that this was a terrible decision. Sure, Penelope didn´t really show signs of being a back-stabber in the third game, she didn´t show any signs of NOT being one either. Plus, like you said, she did seem to always have a dark side, what with the whole thing that happened in Holland. Yeah, I agree, they could have explained this affair better, but it´s not exactly enough to ruin the series. Plus, it shows something that we saw with Neyla too: even a person you trust, even someone among your friends, can betray you. Something all too real, if you ask me.

[@3DSDF]

I know this is old, but Penelope reasons for betraying were stupid. She betrayed the team because she thought her and Bentley could millions from weapon designs. She already had money and fame when she was the Black Baron so her betrayal makes no sense when she could've easily had broke up with Bentley and started another tournament. I wouldn't even say that she was con artist because the only reason why she had donned the Black Baron persona was that she was too young at the time beforehand to join the dog-fighting league.

[@XJ0461C]

3DSDF I never said her reasons were justified, only that they made sense, which they do. She was clearly jealous of Sly because of how mentally inferior he was to Bentley yet he got all of Bentley's attention. And as she said, she felt this was holding Bentley back. She was absolutely established as a con artist because even though the Black Baron became a celebrity, she didn't have to keep holding the tournaments. She probably made plenty of money on it the first time. She also forbade cheating in the tournament but cheated herself to ensure she won every single year. Sly disappearing meant that there were no more heists while Bentley waited around for him to come back. Penelope wanted him to realize his full potential and earn more loot with her, not focus all of his time and resources for Sly. Yes she was selfish and misguided, but she just went mad with power honestly. I was only saying it doesn't go against her character. Good people go bad all the time. She put herself on this path.

[@3DSDF]

***** Maybe she was jealous of Sly during the time skip, but in Sly 3 she was head over heels for him because of his looks and skills. Bentley was the jealous one, art first, because of this. And she to keep the tournaments going in order to acquire more fame and money. And they had got money from the cave in Sly3, and I'm pretty sure the Copper gang has plenty of money from their past adventures. So money shouldn't had been an issue for Penelope.

[@kidprime6863]

Fun Fact: Penelope wasn't supposed to be a villain. The original villain was supposed to be a tech-headed mole, but for some reason they used Penelope instead.

[@robtheillusion5529]

Well boy, that would've been way better than this trash

[@kidprime6863]

@@robtheillusion5529 Yes it would. If not then bring back Sir Raleigh the Frog

[@robtheillusion5529]

@@kidprime6863 Yeah, really any alternative would've worked, especially the guys from Clockworks gang.

[@kidprime6863]

@@robtheillusion5529 Or I wouldn't actually mind her turning evil if they gave her a better motivation than just "I want to build weapons, unlock your potential and I hate Sly Cooper. Why? Because, shut up".

[@Raximus3000]

@@kidprime6863 That made no logical sense what prevented them from doing that? I assume it would have been the legal side because big goverments do pay better.

[@dog8668]

I miss old good penolope

[@chloeisiah5043]

Yeah me too I like it better she was helpful and useful also nice instead being a mean bad guy jerk.

[@disneyvillainrocket1]

My dick is small and ikr. I can’t believe Penelope betrayed us all

[@JyujinPlus]

I could believe Penolope turning evil. I could believe her claiming that morality is an arbitrary line drawn by people to keep others in line and that she’d be better off pushing the line to do better for herself. But there’s no transition to that point and there’s no nuance to her once she’s a villain. Sly Cooper is very good at making charming fun villains, but really bad at making three dimensional villains with good motivation.

[@kidprime6863]

Exactly

[@frostycane5134]

This would be like if futaba sakuri from persona 5 reappeared in the next game but as an evil villain

[@DarkKirby8976]

That would suck.

[@kidprime6863]

@@DarkKirby8976 Definitely

[@randomguyontheinternet3758]

2018 and still waiting for sly cooper 5

[@ChokaSpoka]

Rick Sanchez sadly I think we're not getting a Sly 5 :(

[@greendaleforever]

THIS is why bros before hos is so sacred.

[@AH-is5yg]

Penelope's betrayal would have work better if we got some build up to it or le paradox had her kidnapped and brainwashed. Penelope's jealously should have been hinted more before the betrayal. Her plans failed and failed to get rid of the Cooper family and their legacy. If they do a part 5, I wonder where she'll go.

[@yesyes7068]

I just found out this now and oh boy what a massive disappointment it is. The 3rd game ended with everyone making their own ways and partners into their lives. Sly met his partner, Bently had his, and Murray had a job that he loved and was passionate about. To portray Penelope as this money hungry, greedy individual, in contrast to the innocent, shy one in the 3rd game without explaining the motives properly is just so much of a let down. They could have at least shown in more detail WHY she felt this way. This just seems like lazy writing at its peak.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

She wasn’t that greedy, she was willing to share it with Bentley.

[@dragonborn7955]

its implied that Penelope, was faking her goodside for the team. and she could be secretly be evil all the time

[@kidprime6863]

If that was true, she would've betrayed the gang 10x over from get-go

[@SuperCouplesChan2]

Penelope knows very well that she and Bentley are super geniuses. She knew they could create anything possible through their smarts and technology. She made it VERY clear this wasn't about the money and it wasn't. Penelope felt trapped. The gang split up and all she had was Bentley and herself to tinker away.. On what? what machines were they going to create? what were they going to use the nick knacks for if there was no use for them with the gang gone. When Bentley and her finally started the secret time machine project she WANTED to put it to use. for it to be used for SOMETHING. So she gave it to le paradox. But only because he was the start for her plan to make her machines do things. good or bad. and she wanted Bentley to help her with it. But instead he used all his stuff for sly. this made her bitter and want to kill sly. With sly gone Bentley would use his mind for HER again. I wish she hadn't done it but she did... hopefully theres a change next game..

[@XJ0461C]

Exactly! She wouldn't abandon a great gig in Holland like she had if she thought the Cooper Gang was gonna stop pulling heists. She never would've joined then! This isn't so unbelievable for a villain plot twist and I fail to see why so many revile it as such.

[@3DSDF]

But she did. She said that her and Bentley could make billions off of weapon designs, and she said that Sly was holding Bentley back from reaching his full potential. Basically, she was saying the spiel that Dr. M was saying in Sly 3.

[@XJ0461C]

3DSDF The money wasn't the main reason. She probably got a rush from stealing like any thief, which all of them are, but her main motivation was to have Bentley all to herself. Self-centered, but it makes sense for her to do.

[@3DSDF]

***** Then why say "we could've made billions from weapon designs"? Why not use the time time machine to steal priceless artifacts?

[@XJ0461C]

3DSDF Bentley's time machine was flawed and Sly was still in the way. Le Paradox was going to get rid of him so she could have Bentley to herself.

[@penelopeblack-knight1557]

It was for Bentley and I, but he didn't listen...

[@capnpen7690]

Man, years later and this is still my main sticking point (among several) with this game.

[@PonyPlays2014]

5:18 She... kinda has a point with that first thing.

[@PartialKredit]

While this wasn’t super well done, it wasn’t out of character for Penelope. She was the Black Baron last game and won the dogfights through cheating and shooting down the competition.

[@hailenvy]

Man do I hope so. Penelope and Bentley serve as my most fave Sly Cooper pairing.

[@EJAXK13]

I been in the same situation as Bentley has.

[@eemelijaaskelainen4437]

Jacob Ray Helsing Power to you, brother

[@chloeisiah5043]

I afraid so. he make all possible by created a time machine it was his idea and what he have done.

[@MrXemrox]

They only reasonable explanation of her betrayal is that she was brainwashed with the help of Decibel skills in that.

[@slycooper4506]

I don't know if I will ever forgive Penelope for what she's done.

[@carmensandiego328]

Me too. And what she did was absolutely inexcusable and unforgivable. She put the value of money and power over friendship and romance. She should be ashamed of herself.

[@slycooper4506]

@@carmensandiego328 you're right.

[@kidprime6863]

I hope she redeems herself in the next game. Her motivation was stupid, forced and clichéd. FIX IT SANZARU!!

[@GastrodonAmy]

Her heart was pitch black. She murdered thousands. She attempted to rewrite ~722 years of history to her liking. She showed no empathy or respect to anybody, not even Bentley. She only loved money and power. She was a warmonger wannabe. She was a master manipulator. Penelope is a sociopath, and no different from any Renaissance era Disney Villain.

[@slycooper4506]

@@GastrodonAmy that pretty much just hits the nail on the head. But you forgot to put in treacherous two-faced back-stabbing piece of shit.

[@alabasterindigo]

I like to pretend that the whole game is an alternative timeline and ignore it altogether.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

Relationships are a series of peaks and valleys.

[@zebbr0s]

I could totally buy that Penelope turned a "villain", if it had been done better. Basically nothing drove her to side with paradox other than "I want to rule the world lol". It dumb her character down, and was very disappointing. brensey.deviantart.com/art/Why-I-will-not-be-purchasing-Sly-5-362822727 This journal on tackles the subject, and I agree with most of it. Especially this part of the journal, telling Penelope's side and what made her betray Bentley is super neat. "Even though she never let it show, Penelope was extremely disappointed when the Cooper Gang disbanded just a few short months after she gave up that lucrative con job in Holland to join up with them. Yeah, Sly left them with enough cash to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. But she expected a glamorous and exciting life of awesome heists upon joining the gang. And, although she loved Bentley, their relationship cooled off after the honeymoon phase was over. And he eventually got buried in his time machine research and started treating her like his “Lab Assistant With Benefits” (that is, when he bothered to pay attention to her at all). And for a woman who managed to use her wits to conquer a village in Holland when she was still in her teens, simply being known as “Bentley’s Girlfriend” was kind of degrading. And she eventually grew to resent Sly for disbanding the team because it felt like she was recruited under false pretenses."

[@kidprime6863]

@zeb THAT'S a better motivation! Thank YOU!

[@kidprime6863]

This would've made more sense if she was mind controlled or blackmailed by Le Paradox. I don't if that's too predictable and cliched, it's better than her pulling a 180 and wanting to build weapons which doesn't even begin to make sense because she never addressed this desire before. If you can't come up with a better motivation for her to betray the gang, then don't even bother executing the idea of her betraying them at all.

[@TheMormonSorceress]

If only Penelope understood that Bently and Sly grew up as brothers and always put each other first. It seems she and Bently have different opinions on what's more important

[@kidprime6863]

I'm surprised neither Sly nor Bentley told her their history

[@samanthacoutts4678]

Now, Sly has his own Dr. M.

[@tobi888100]

I wish I had a comfy shell like that..

[@coruscant100]

To this day, this is one of the main reasons why I refuse to accept Sly 4 as canon to the series. This whole twist is a complete disaster with no real reason. After everything in Sly 3 and what both Penelope and Bentley have done together, making her a villain is one of the biggest middle fingers ever. If she was mind controlled or blackmailed, I could see it maybe working. The fact she did this of her own free will though and was written intentionally is a moment someone should've thrown the script back in Sanzaru's face and scold him for this pathetic decision. This is nothing short of character assassination for Penelope and something Sanzaru should be ashamed of for thinking this was a good idea. I just refuse to accept this whole thing. As far as I'm concerned, NONE of this happened at all and the series overall ended after Honor Among Thieves.

[@chaselowrey8494]

Hope in the new game she will be Bentley's girlfriend again.

[@vinrockoginjocko6073]

I kind of hope she becomes good in sly 5

[@foxshock5571]

Me too.

[@yaolofe3852]

Me too

[@MrOgge50]

I really hope a fifth entry will come. I want to see what will happen to Penelope and how the Cooper gang and Carmelita’s stories will end. Penelope was one of the most interesting characters in the third game. I really hope they can reconcile.

[@kidprime6863]

They'd better

[@MagicKat456]

OK, I can handle Sanzaru calling the Safehouse the 'Hideout'. Not bringing Guru or Neyla back? Fine. No mention of Clockwerk? Yup. BUT PENELOPE'S BETRAYAL!? That was a dick move, Sanzaru.

[@MrLeemurman]

I think Sanzaru fucked up. They completely turned this character around from how she was in the 3rd game. I guess it works, but it's so unbelievable that it just feels wrong. Someone like Penelope couldn't go from loving tech wiz to greedy bitch just like that. But whatevs.

[@Nintendofan781]

I agree. I felt it was kind of weird and complete bullshit that they changed Penelope into a villain. She was an awesome character in the third game and was a lot like Bentley. Now, they made her more like she don't give a shit about sly and the gang. Not to mention, I didn't get what she said to Bentley about working for sly because he was a thief. Here's the thing, Sly is a thief, yes but he only steals from criminals unless if its valuable item that they need like for the time machine. Plus, Bentley has been with Sly since they were kids and wanted to help sly furfill his destiny in becoming a master thief. I thought it just came out of nowhere when she said that and made the character unfitting, especially since we as fans didn't imagine that this would happen.

[@undoneonion90]

Maybe we could pretend "Thieves in Time" isn't canon?

[@Nintendofan781]

hm....could be but it's hard to tell considering its a continuation to the series.

[@Gorgabash]

+Robert Jindra Won't matter much if Sucker Punch makes Sly 5 and they acknowledge the events that happened in Thieves in Time as canon.

[@XJ0461C]

+Jordan Nantau Sly has stolen from museums and other legitimate businesses, not just other criminals.

[@Cam-wn4mu]

9:31 - 9:37 Penelope knows it's not over yet.

[@PonyPlays2014]

For me, this is not really a "Hero-Becomes-Villain" thing Penelope is not really evil. She knew that Bentley can gain more than just be a the tech-guru in a band of thieves and actually become rich and famous but she also knew that he would never agree to it. She thought that destroying Cooper and, thereby, destroying the band would set him free and he could finally use his brain to it's full capacity. She only saw the goal and was selfish but she also thought about Bendley

[@carmensandiego328]

I agree but that’s absolutely no excuse for what she did to Bentley and the rest of her friends. Makes me wish they left her to be Lefwee’s bride.

[@CooperGal24]

But in Sly 3, it wasn't mentioned on whether the Black Baron was a bad guy or good guy. Penelope described "Him" as being the top pilot in ACES, and tasked the Cooper Gang with the mission to see if they can defeat "Him" or not, since "He" was a champion pilot in Holland. I don't want to sound like a know-it-all, but that's my point of view.

[@thurmastat146]

I hate how they did that. I loved Penelope in sly 3. Mostly I just pretend this one doesn't exist

[@falcon3268]

I feel so sorry for Bentley, he made the right choice though

[@tbossch]

Top ten saddest anime betrayals

[@xtendo_64]

Bentley, the disabled chad

[@TylerTheShepherd]

Disappointing as it is I don’t think we should give up on Penelope or the relationship so soon. As far as we know this could easily be one of those cheesy “break up, make up scenarios.” They do it all the time in soap operas.

[@GreenBro11]

I think this twist could've worked if they tried harder. Making it about money or jealousy of Sly made no sense. Penelope started out having a crush on Sly and Sly left the gang a ton of the Co9oper fortune at the end of Sly 3. Should've worked a different angle for the heel turn and we'll probably never know how this resolves.

[@zachster1420]

I hate this whole thing where she is suddenly evil, like WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?

[@chairmanwario]

She always had villainous leanings though, she was a villain in the 3rd game at first after all.

[@chloeisiah5043]

Yep bad guys will be bad guys.

[@pyro111100]

Like Dr. M said, "Time does some strange things to people".

[@e.j5813]

“I swear on my mother’s shell”! I swear the writers doing the dialogue in this game derserve a gold medal 🥇 💀😂

[@Ishogamble]

She's basically doing evil stuff even though she hates thieves how does that work? Second how my man's Bentley have light, 6 books, a pillow, and 2 pictures in that tiny space?

[@taylord5381]

Everyone's complaining about Penelope being evil, meanwhile I'm here like: 3:10 *"I THOUGHT BENTLEY COULDN'T MOVE HIS LEGS!!"*

[@RekEStore32]

Oh Penelope, how could you? She was nice and sweet in the last game, and now she's... oh just not cool.

[@chloeisiah5043]

Yeah! I thought we were friends! She use to be a member of cooper gang and friend but not anymore she's betray/lie to us. Also she should be a shame to yourself.

[@superwarioadamswa1322]

Felt so bad for Bentley

[@Tohofan122]

They didnt build this up quite well like penelope, disappeared 4 chapters later "oh yeah shes a bad guy now bye"

[@Skip2105]

3:11 how’d he get his legs in like that???

[@majormccoy3364]

This was such a dumb idea to just make Penelope evil. It's completely out of character for her! Honestly they should have just had Miss Decibel using her abilities to mind control Penelope. It would have made way more sense.

[@kidprime6863]

Or hypnotize her with the Clockwerk Eye

[@majormccoy3364]

@@kidprime6863 Yeah.

[@Clorgisclorg]

I still don't know why people think this is "wildly out of character". Even in 3 she never expressed any interest in flat nobility. In fact, we recruit her after uncovering she lied to be able to compete against people and continued to keep up the lie so she could continue to be the best. From square one she's been opportunistic and self-interested. She didn't join the team for honor, good, or righteousness; she joined because she wanted to work with the best. And if I joined the best thieves in the world for that alone--not really caring for their good nature one way or the other-I would probably get a little upset that this THIEF team doesn't turn a profit or stagnates. I never had a hard time believing that she--a thief that had no other motive brought up beyond profit and prestige--would turn to a group that would give her that.

[@TylerTheShepherd]

What are talking about, she did show nobility in sly 3. She helped defend the cooper hanger from mugshot before she joined the gang and before they proved they were the best. When Murray was captured by Tsao’s men she rushed into enemy territory in order to help him. And when Lefwee had Bentley captured she stood up against him and sword fought him. It is “out of character” when someone from one game to act all kind and caring about her teammates to all of a sudden in the next game (made by a different developer) to give it all up for self interest. Besides early development sketch designs for Sly 4 revealed that she was never intended to be the villain anyway.

[@Raximus3000]

@@TylerTheShepherd Plus her betrayal made no logical sense. The cooper gang was out of commission and she was literaly working with Bentley how was Bentley's "honorable" nature an issue to them making billions in the weapon market, i assume she meant the legal one since it is the most profitable one for them.

[@articusramos808]

Penelope had a castle, fleet of Planes, airship and a private army, she's loaded. She even had the gang stay awhile in her damn place and gave a tour. Hell, she didn't need millions, she had all the means for living comfortably. Yes she had some underhand tactics but she admitted defeat after sly defeated her.

[@The_Platinum_Realist]

Huh funny how Bentley’s ex mirrors mine Blond hair, glasses, disappears with no word, and utter disappointment.

[@cheesydanishgaming3333]

Sly 4? Time Machine? Overly sexualize Carmelita? Traitorous Penelope? Bro how high are you? It’s 2005 I just beat the game yesterday It’s over, the ending was so perfect and everyone gets their happy ending Quit spilling your fanfics to us now if you’ll excuse me ima go play the newly released Resident Evil 4

[@TheStepsen]

why is always bently who gets hurt so badly ?? :(

[@chloeisiah5043]

because Penelope break his heart and let him down.

[@yaolofe3852]

​@@chloeisiah5043 I'm Knew It she Lying 😡😡😡

[@kelleninouye4815]

I was shocked at first but seeing as both her disguises had black in them it unfortunately made sense for me in my opinion after her reveal that it was Penelope!.

[@chloeisiah5043]

Fool us once shame on you but fool us twice shame on you again!

[@dubbman44]

not sure if anyone knows this but I found out that in the original script Penelope was suppose to be one of the good guy in this game the mole I think but they decided to just make her a traitor

[@kalibradshaw3246]

oh, makes sense

[@Sawtiisms]

SMH.... Penelope was one of my favorite characters growing up, and to see her turn into such a poor definition of evil with such bad execution....

[@KupKate215]

Sucks this happened. I really liked her. I had to admire her, being the only female in a male group. But I like Bentley more, and she hurt him so I dislike her now.

[@Zidane_Mina]

I'm pissed the whole generation (ps4) we did not get any new Sly Game :(

[@BlackMoonRis1ng]

yeah man, i really want penelope for bentley because they are really compatible with each other plus they are both techies which is a great feat of the cooper gang

[@LitheFider]

I'll never own a PS3 and get to play this so it was nice to see the plot line of it, thank you

[@KavinCatastrophe]

Clockwerk may have a new ally in the next game.

[@wyattdieckmann7553]

What if she built clockwork when she went back in time?

[@wyattdieckmann7553]

Clockwerk*

[@Symbiote1996]

It all makes sense now! I've always wondered how Clockwerk managed to turn into a robot in ancient Egypt. The technology didn't exist back then. Penelope is the one who travels back and helps him. But in the end of Sly 4, Sly got stranded in ancient Egypt. Where he'll probably meet Slytunkhamen Cooper I.

[@Darkstar263]

I strongly suspect she may have been responsible for making Clockwerk robotic. As he is supposed to have been hundreds of years old, where would he have obtained the technology to modify himself? How could he modify his body on his own? It makes sense, in this episode she built an army of robot soldiers, a giant robot dragon and a suit of armor all by herself. She would definitely have the knowhow to do something like that.

[@iceluvndiva21]

Sad truth that NO ONE wants to admit in the fandom? Sometimes people fall out of love just as easily as they fall in.

[@WikiSorcerer]

I don't mind that they had one of the gang turn traitor. That idea was introduced in the third game. It's that the game did a very poor job of foreshadowing it. She disappears in the beginning cutscene and no one mentions her. Then the opening cutscene for the medieval level suddenly brings it up and the villain is a faceless character with an army of robots. Also: _Black_ Knight, _Black_ Knight.

[@MadHatter42]

I just re-beat Sly II Band of Thieves, and I realized: at the end of it, Clock-La claimed she would continue to haunt Sly and his gang until the end of time. What if he spirit still somehow lived on, and then "infected" Penelope? It's a feasible explanation, I think.

[@johns162]

I don't think it's the cause at all but it sounds really cool!

[@kidprime6863]

Take what you can get

[@MadHatter42]

@@kidprime6863 Maybe I did 8 years ago, but nowadays I'm more inclined to think it was just bad writing.

[@kidprime6863]

@@MadHatter42 Definitely bad writing

[@Symphonia30]

Poor Bentley

[@dahirahmed4623]

I thought that penelope was bently's girlfriend, and then she betrayed him. Just like others too.

[@atlasreborn7221]

Not a bad character, but we did know that she was a CON who made a costume to get in a dogfight to past the age requirements and I guess money was involved besides that fucking trophy, but she did work for Le Paradox for the money so we should have seen this coming.

[@Jahof20s]

Seriously though, it feels thats there something more that made her turn than just seeing bentley's potential, I mean why didn't she talk to bentley about this during their breaks from their work. I mean she was pretty moralixtic when meeting them for the first time and her plan would mean risk never meeting bentley at all, heck even remebering him would be impossible. It sound like world conquest only has meaning with bentley, which adds another question: what's the point? why rule the world?

[@fujiapple9675]

What the writers did to Penelope and Bentley is a crime! I hate this.

[@ConorC96]

I'm with you too man. If Sanzaru doesn't do anything to improve the situation, then goddamnit it would just be too much.

[@michaelmoline4938]

I think (if) Sly 5 comes out, Murry should get some