Smash Ultimate Patch 9.0.0 - Side by Side Comparison

[@BeefySmashDoods]

In Steve dittos it is now tradition to let each other craft diamond before fighting!

[@KoopaFilms]

builds an L online

[@benny2057]

We like to call it, the Gentleman's Mine

[@dhark1166]

Daddy shulk got nerfed

[@PalpitoadPlus]

Agreed

[@RealNikTrustMe]

that's cool and all but i can body most steve players with jigglypuff

[@dabeastle7116]

“Multi hits were fixed” Pit and dark pit crying in the corner

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

They need bigger hitboxes as well

[@grotto185]

Their multi hits are nice. They just need a better grab and for side-b to have a bit less endlag.

[@alesterphoenix]

Kill me

[@Dr_Nig]

Laughs in Luigi Cyclone

[@grotto185]

@@Dr_Nig *laughs in Dr.Tornado*

[@asquirrel1640]

Nintendo: “we are working to improve the online experience” Also Nintendo: “let’s buff sonic and ness”

[@trip9196]

Ness buffs were kinda minor, and sonic buffs made him more aggresive, so that's actually better. Stop complaining about characters until you play them (both characters are incredibly fun if you don't just spam pk fire/spindash) Edit: ness is really good, I'm actually not sure if he needed buffs, but I'll go over them anyways. -dash attack is better at killing now but it never connects fully that often -up tilt is a niche combo move anyway, nothing special -down air, I don't know why they did this, it doesn't really do anything special. Someone told me that magnet to dair is now true with this patch but that is not true -up throw kills very late, around 180%, so not nearly as good as back throw and most people can predict a ness fishing for a grab anyway -pk flash was actually a good buff, the move is underused and this might turn it into a used move. Sonic: Dash attack, who cares. If optimal sonic only camps, there is not much reason to use his dash attack, so it doesn't buff the campy side of sonic -up tilt doesn't really do anything still??? It doesn't really combo that well and is still a bad move -up smash had ok patches, made it a eh move into an okay one I stand by the fact that Sakurai obviously has bias, kirby and ganon have been below average in every smash game they were in, pikachu and fox have been at least good in every game they were in. I'm not gonna complain about my hated characters getting buffed because I know that Sakurai probably doesn't give a fuck.

[@owennelson5814]

@Rabeez Squirrel And Pikachu

[@SuperEljafru]

@@trip9196 sonic buffs did not make him more aggressive. it just made it easier for him to get a stock lead and camp you out, arguably making him camp more. i agree both sonic and ness are fun, and the changes help that, but keep in mind that people aren't gonna play fun if they're playing to win with those characters

[@Crimson7Qrow]

@Anonymous wtf is your profile pic lol

[@trip9196]

@@SuperEljafru Okay. Well I just don't care that much. Just saying that sonic players have more of a reason to approach, even if only for 1 stock.

[@hedgehoundable]

Smash players: It's more important to buff characters rather than nerfing them. Nintendo: *buffs Ness* Smash players: wait no

[@cyndawu1940]

Nerfs Shulk. Wait why

[@Gatchu137]

@@cyndawu1940 All the changes were negligable. Counter and up-smash don't make him any better, and the nerf to shield art doesn't really change anything. People complained about shield art, said Shulk cheats. They nerfed shield art to please people. Doesn't matter though, he's still not dying with shield art on.

[@saintnick7252]

Yeah, how did Ness get plenty of buffs and Lucas got... NOTHING? He actually hasn't been touched in the last several updates.

[@showmeyourmoves8551]

@@cyndawu1940 shulk is a top tier

[@showmeyourmoves8551]

@@Gatchu137 actually shulk's counter is a big buff and making multihit moves connect better is always a good change

[@StickMaster500]

You forget the one Sonic buff where his Forward Smash sends you to Minecraft

[@gbx4858]

There is no escape from you

[@seabass64]

you’re going to Minecraft

[@JohnnyFire117]

Hello there.

[@winster32]

Go to Minecraft.

[@hellointernet6849]

@@seabass64 You're Going To Hell.

[@evergreen8600]

In utter shock they buffed Ness and Sonic in the era of Wifi Although the fix to Sonics up air was definitely called for

[@xx_v_xx4373]

They still haven't fixed Sonic's down B tho and his up air still doesnt connect as consistently as it did in 4 (which was basically all the time). Those were the only ways I wanted balance patches to deal with him, but the up smash buff is neat I guess

[@arrogantprince]

@@xx_v_xx4373 what needs to be fixed in down b it’s all ready busted and the reason people hate fighting him, the changes sonic got were in the right direction though, just need to buff moves that don’t get used and nerf his camp game

[@hyde7100]

@@xx_v_xx4373 up smash buff is actually so good that it puts him top tier for sure now

[@xx_v_xx4373]

@@arrogantprince his down b also doesn't connect super reliably and opponents tend to fall out of it. And trust me I know it's why people hate fighting Sonic. Hes my 2nd main. The way I would balance it is to make it so people fall out of it less while decreasing the percent window he can combo it into forward air and kill off the side blast zone

[@GekTC]

Well, they buffed Sonic's bad moves which they do for all chracters eventually, and Ness is already a mid-high tier character, so it is *really* that shocking..? The only shocking thing is that they refuse to buff Little Mac.

[@thevarietypacksnaxx405]

YES BSD always comes through with the visual guide. They do what nintendon't

[@mandalorianhunter1]

They do better then everyone else.

[@av3ry675]

That was smooth my g

[@Bee-N64]

Genesis denesis what Nintendenesis

[@ABC-ik9vj]

I read LSD

[@emmamora7]

Where have I heard that before? Oh wait, SEGA did it first.

[@Shaeffen_]

As an ice climbers main... I now get to play the game.

[@esqimo6647]

Pikachu is a good matchup for us tho lol Nice joke tho, you really baited me

[@Shaeffen_]

@@esqimo6647 that was the goal

[@esqimo6647]

@@Shaeffen_ yes I think I got that

[@theshusher1234]

Welcome to smash ice climbers glad you got your invitation finally

[@hunterzilla9385]

I finally found a fellow ice climbers main. Someone feels my pre patch pain

[@raive2this818]

Everyone: *Complains about Online Sonic* Sakurai: "Buff Sonic. Teach them the true meaning of pain."

[@InklingRacer456]

THIS WORLD SHALL KNOW PAIN!

[@noirlavender6409]

I swear that man hates us.

[@remo4644]

Also Ness, the Belmonts and Pikachu damn

[@Freeeeeeeee27]

@@remo4644 Ness was not needed. The trolls have too much power

[@Not-Sumireko]

Fans haven't been good boys and girls

[@surrealisticinfinity2895]

Me: Scrolls down the 9.0 patch notes list and get excited when I see the name of my boy Ridley *nerfed*

[@robertminor8460]

Its not a nerf actually, not having that landing hitbox means that hitting the downward up b spike is easier

[@rexedous3908]

@@robertminor8460 That was the first thing I checked when messing around with the buffs. I feared they took away my spiking capabilities. Nothing is more satisfying than kamikazi Spiking my foes.

[@m_e_nere]

I just want up throw to be a kill throw man. The only kill throw we have is down throw and that's at 170

[@rexedous3908]

@@m_e_nere Up throw forces our enemies to land against Ridley, which is very dangerous and can often lead to kills. I also use up throw to kill consistently when the enemy lives to rediculous percents. Our throws are perfectly fine, we don't need a kill throw.

[@Neogears1312]

how do you get excited for these things? 9/10 times the buffs are insignificant at best

[@ExileOfBrokenSky]

Ridley got nerfed........ because he really needed it..? Not even 1 buff.. He's perfect, right?

[@2btqj]

I have no idea why that move even needed to be nerf.

[@Ninjames]

So incredibly annoyed they nerfed ridley

[@petery6432]

Yeah, that post shows that it makes spiking with Up B more reliable as the Grounded hitbox will no longer interupt the spike.

[@vleessjuu]

@@iamspikefire Oh, that's neat. Now if only they could make dair worthwhile as well.

[@ExileOfBrokenSky]

imma have to play with that for and see if i can get more spikes then, usually was a gamble to spike ledge because of that, perhaps it is a buff after all

[@petery6432]

Thanks for putting the exact number of frames a move was changed by on screen.

[@Redpoppy80]

Shulk doesn't need a damage buff on an attack that only hits 20% of the time in the air and 70% on the ground. What he needs is new glasses to actually hit his counters!

[@GregCaldwellPlays]

His shield art got nerfed

[@petery6432]

@@GregCaldwellPlays He's talking about Vision's issues with consistentsy

[@miralists]

His up air has the same problem as well, specially when using monado speed or jump

[@superheriber27]

It's a good thing that some counters don't hit though Fuck counters

[@kaisolomon5187]

@MetroidPrincess shield barely got changed. Shield is still strong for combo breaking.

[@LT-re5vo]

I don’t get why they buffed Ness and not Lucas when Lucas is the one that needs a buff. He has way to much endlag in many of his moves.

[@nauxah]

lucas has gotten a lot of endlag fixes in prior updates. good ones? no. but buffs? yes.

[@ivantorres7353]

@@nauxah what lucas needed was for down throw to be able to be a better combo tool, back air to be able to kill if sourspouted( like Mario & k rool) and make nair into a combo tool

[@ivantorres7353]

Just to name a few

[@a2rhombus2]

I don't get why they buffed anyone when they could buff ganon

[@Roxas-dr8om]

Hes literally a walking hitbox, I think he's good enough...

[@hadendotexe]

"Its more important to buff rather than nerf" *cries in Pichu*

[@Edgeperor]

Most of the time*

[@erebus8532]

"Pikachu got buffed." A sentence that should never be said

[@kevjab3895]

Neither should "Ness got buffed" but here we are

[@trollpage7]

Its actually a nerf to pika because drag downs could be harder

[@Agerzzs]

@@trollpage7 It's not. It really sucked when finishing up air bridges

[@PalpitoadPlus]

YES

[@shalinchada5940]

@@trollpage7 nah if u fqst fall they still work

[@DeathBolt666]

Imagine buffing Ness and Sonic

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

Patch 2.0.0: Am I a Joke to u?

[@nesswednesday2976]

Sonic is somewhat understandable, especially for Uair. However, I agree that Ness getting buffed feels like a punishment tool

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

@@nesswednesday2976 the Ness buffs aren’t game changing at all. They just buffed the bad moves and that’s it. It’s not like PK Fire puts u into more hitstun lol

[@Z0niC101]

I dont want to

[@GekTC]

@@nesswednesday2976 But Ness is worse than Sonic tier-wise. I would understand if they buffed PK Fire, but they buffed things that only competitive Ness players would care for and use consistently.

[@Not_Aaron_]

"Sonic got buffed" I never wanted to hear those words from cFive

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

Sonic has been buffed before in patch 2.0.0 lol

[@Zmasher95]

:3

[@nomei.]

Show some respect to Sonic.

[@KhalilSonic]

Dude do you know for how long I have been WAITING for a sonic patch & buff? So shut your mouth

[@petery6432]

Guys, they buffed a bunch of moves that would be used aggressively. That's the kind of buffs you should want for Sonic. They didn't buff Homing Attack and Spin dash, so I doubt campy Sonics are going to get much out of this.

[@MissAshley42]

Meanwhile, Pit still can't read.

[@chukwunyeremadubata8364]

"Ness Got Buffed" Guess I'll SD.

[@Zulyahmed67]

The fact that SD makes a confused looking face just makes this joke better

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Kinda ironic since ness's recovery is the defenition of SD

[@KorporalKReephdmkiytrecv69]

"there is finally a new smash ultimate patch bringing us and another DLC character" (And bad matchup for ganondorf)

[@Yuzu_sans2]

Hi again

[@maxberg4276]

hi AGAIN

[@limptoast]

You mean bad matchup for everyone.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Sad no buffs for K. Rool or Marth

[@Ketchup1810]

Stop commenting everywhere

[@nickclark1815]

I've just given up on buffs for Little Mac. Like they actually buffed Ness and Sonic first wtf?

[@arrogantprince]

Thing is you can’t fix Mac with COMPLETELY changing how he plays

[@Uknkown]

@@arrogantprince giving him his smash 4 endlag (meaning less endlag on his moves that allowed for combos like dtilt,uptilt ) and having him be able to get back on stage isnt exactly game breaking, there's so much busted shit in this game that Little Mac being remotely decent isnt exactly a mind blowing concept. It's actually insane how he doesnt get his side b back after inputting it, in a game like smash ultimate where everyone gets back on stage quick.

[@arrogantprince]

@@Uknkown I’m not a Mac player (sonic main don’t judge) so I didn’t about all that, but in my opinion he can’t get above mid tier with out overhauling his character if that makes any since

[@ABAgamer_]

@@Uknkown These are the exact changes I want for him, as well as making Straight Lunge better for tanking attacks and cancelling. If Nintendo decides to do this in the future, he'll be a solid low mid tier or even high low tier character, making him more viable in the competitive scene (not that I am competitive or anything, which I'm not). There's still hope for my boxer from the bronx!

[@PrettyKoolCrocodile]

@@arrogantprince Yeah, this is exactly why Mac is hard to tweak, the balancing team is not going to redesign any characters and they want to focus on casual play the most by tweaking some frame data values and hitbox offsets, its extremely doubtful for them to resort to doing a redesign. It wouldn't do much to tweak him now as it would make him more annoying to fight then improving him. He needs a design overhaul for big changes to happen, like I'd go for slightly making his ground game worse (and KO punch being blockable), for decently better aerials, more hitstun on Down Tilt, better horizontal and vertical distances for his Up Special distance as well as getting his Side Special after getting hit after an airborne use, grabs need more range and his Air Dodge NEEDS to have more distance. That's all I would tweak from Mac to make him better. -Oh and --#GiveMacBackHisJab-

[@karabirb]

The fact that Nintendo looked at the current state of online play and decided to buff Sonic of all characters is just mind blowing. Like the buffs aren’t that big and prolly won’t make TOO much of a difference, but I’m just flabbergasted that they even did it

[@somedudethatdoesthings8057]

That's why you touch the moves that don't matter the most, which is side-b and down-b. I would argue f-smash as well, but I'm assuming that's just my bias on that things range.

[@giacomonki]

Agreed

[@SanityLapse]

All the buffs were to A button moves, and it's not like online Sonics ever press A anyway.

[@gizmo2445]

The problem isn’t with Sonic, it’s their laggy ass online. Why ignore changes a character needs just because in one game mode outta like 10, his speed is a problem when lag is present.

[@petery6432]

Actually, that's good because it's means that Sonics are more likely to use non-B moves, making them less frustrating to fight.

[@GekTC]

People complaining about Ness and Sonic buffs do not realize that they buffed some of the least used moves of those 2, thus meaning that they have better options than just PK Fire/Spin Chrage now for kill confirms, thus making their meta less stale over time. If they NERFED those characers instead, they would actually have *more* reason to play lame, with Sonic camping more and Ness spamming safe moves more. You guys need to stop taking character balance advice from Twitter complaints and KZbin parodies, honestly. Oh, and Pikachu's "buff" is not even a buff, just a multihit fix. Every character gets and deserves those, not just your main.

[@09JDCTrainMan]

^

[@h0m3st4r]

Finally, somebody with some common sense in this comments section.

[@duragdee2760]

I think they buffed those two in exchange for potentially nerfing them in the next update.

[@GING173]

As someone who plays none of those characters I completely agree, having a less 1 dimensional move-set is only better long term for any character (even ones that aren’t fun to play against). People can still play as stale as before if they want but it’s good that it’s being actively discouraged by Nintendo

[@kachosuffer7]

"better options" you mean ADDED options. now they have more things to spam

[@user-sv3tx9gm6u]

"We're doing our best to improve the online experience" *Buffs Sonic, Ness, Pikachu, and the Belmonts*

[@nonomen6665]

Pikachu got a minor universal (Pit notwithstanding) buff.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Didn't you say last patch that "NinteNdo sHOuld FocuS on buFSS MorE thaN nErfS? And it involves all characters.

[@chrisjackson6149]

@@ahmadkazan7994 That would only work if they had buffed everyone, and yet Ness got buffs but Lucas did not.

[@professorpick]

Tbh I’m thinking they just buff the popular characters to give casuals more fun

[@matthewpipes018]

@@chrisjackson6149 Lucas already been buffed

[@RShezmo]

Sakurai: Alright everyone. We've noticed an issue regarding enemies falling off moves they shouldn't. Ken mains: ? Sakurai: So we're giving a few characters some buffs so these moves can connect into themselves better. Ken mains: !?!? Sakurai: And we're starting with Ken. Now his final smash will connect into itself better. Ken mains: *Crying while falling off shoryuken*

[@Athanatos3301]

Honestly a huge rip.

[@lemonboy5498]

Nintendo buffing Sonic, Ness, and Belmonts in the era of online can only be defined as cruel

[@weirdguy1495]

Steve is a pretty hard counter to all three/four of them.

[@jacksonhorn9935]

Belmont buffs are still, fair though. Haven't been touched since launch and at least offline they are low mid tier. They still need a lot of love. Tbh, I can't believe they looked at Ness and Sonic and said "these characters don't work properly" and passed up characters like Sheik and Marth who have been gutted from previous iterations. But maybe we can take this as a sign that they are looking to do large, comprehensive changes to characters, but that could just be hopeful thinking.

[@unitedgibberish4479]

Not to mention that dr. Mario could also benefit some buffs for one make it so that the down-b goes up more and recovers more quickly and also make it so that his up-b deals more shield damage

[@shakemyhand22]

@@unitedgibberish4479 Doc also needs less end lag on his down b and it needs to snap the ledge

[@unitedgibberish4479]

Yes so true

[@jackwei7785]

Not only did Sonic get buffed, but the buffs made him SAFER.

[@solidusfox]

tbh his buffs are so minor, it won't affect his overall play style that much.

[@bad8243]

@@solidusfox Ehhhhhh

[@kachosuffer7]

@@solidusfox the problem is buffing him at all and not nerfing him...

[@bang1054]

@@kachosuffer7 HE doesn't need nerfs, its jsut wifi that makes him op, hes been nerfed compared to his smash 4 ver.

[@AverageDoctor345]

Spin Dash is safe, everything else isn't. By making his other moves better they improve Sonic's neutral and let him use a wider range of moves rather than just Spin Dash. Hopefully in the next patch he gets further buffs like these along with a nerf to Spin Dash.

[@LetKhan]

You forgot Sonic's new buff: *He now can send you to Minecraft at 100% damage.*

[@Super_Smash_Dude]

I forgot that...thanks for reminding me.

[@hellointernet6849]

@@Super_Smash_Dude Fact: It's Actually FALSE.

[@hellointernet6849]

*How This Is 100% _FALSE._

[@cliffhopkins7101]

Ricley should be able to charge and hold his plasma breath like a charge shot and angle his up special in the standard 8 directions

[@diegor-d2745]

I have no idea why they made his up b so much worse as a recovery move compared to other similar moves. He's a DRAGON(sorta)

[@Edgeperor]

Please no holdable Plasma Breath. Having a free gimp that you can constantly threaten with just isn’t fun

[@slenderfoxx3797]

Ridley should be able to bloody jump more than 2 times.

[@danielmercado1277]

I think we all agree Ridley needs some buffs, making he's recovery worse is just the opposite of what we need :(

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

He has really bad angles for an up b that should be similar to Fox's

[@stixsis4656]

I'm still absolutely baffled that they Buffed Ness, Sonic and Pikachu(minor). The Sonic up air fix was actually really nice but I mean come on.

[@exordi5172]

Here is the thing: with ness, the buffs were somewhat minor, although helpful, and buffed the stuff that wasn’t annoying. And as a Ness main, I can tell you that right now, recovering is very hard online. Lag is a killer. They didn’t buff pk fire, thunder, or magnet hitstun, and flash is near useless anyway.

[@petery6432]

Yeah, the buff are only going to help good Ness', not the PK fire spamming Little Timmys.

[@Gatchu137]

@@exordi5172 But Ness was already a better Lucas, and Lucas remains untouched. Kinda weird.

[@yujirohamna2430]

In Sonic's case they buffed all his bad moves and didn't touch any of his B moves. I've been playing around with his buffs and now I can play more aggressive and not get punished for it.

[@samuelmcclamrock162]

Man they buffed like the most annoying online characters.... sigh

[@Bendan]

They needed to make a fair matchup with Steve

[@puffy3176]

Not really, a bunch of these characters are fast enough and have the tools to deal with Steve to make sure that he dosent mine In order to get the materials for his best moves

[@scarletvrgames568]

@@puffy3176 And alot of them die at 70% to a down air from Steve, let alone his other kill confirms or edgeguards people are discovering

[@Bendan]

@@puffy3176 I was mostly talking about fsmash and dsmash

[@EmptyHand49]

Just Ness

[@Moss_Dude]

C'mon Nintendo, all Kirby needs is an air speed or jump height buff!

[@Registorm00]

Im more in favor adding super armor on his dash attack since it's burning ability like it's game.

[@Moss_Dude]

@Oxnard Darcy Speed in specific states isn't really consistent between smash and source material (like how sonic loses almost all of his speed when jumping as opposed to it carrying over,) but the jump height would still be immensely helpful for forward air chains or juggling/ladders. And source material would still work there because Kirby does jump pretty high.

[@Moss_Dude]

@@Registorm00 That is not gonna help his tier placement at all. We're talking about changes that make characters better, not ones that make certain moves worth using.

[@blaziken1234]

He needs a lot more than that. Copy abilities being lost as easily as they are, Inhale being unviable against most projectiles in a 1v1 setting, FThrow interrupted by Battlefield platforms, Stone being what it is compared to Ground Pound/Bowser Bomb/Steve's DAir... There's even more I haven't listed. Air speed and jump height buffs would help a lot, as have many of the buffs he's gotten in general, but throughout the duration of this game Kirby hasn't received buffs/fixes to the actual parts of his kit that need them. Not talking about patching character weaknesses--I just want fundamentals of his kit that just don't work proper to begin with to get *something*.

[@Moss_Dude]

@@blaziken1234 Just any sort of movement buff does wonders. There are so many videos that talk about why that singlehandedly made Mewtwo top tier in smash 4. More movement means more options, which is one of the most valuable things to have in a platform fighter. With better jump height or air speed Kirby would have access to a bunch more air combos and be much more dangerous as a result. his moves aren't the problem, all of his normals are fine without any being truly "useless" and even stone and hammer flip have some applications. Good moves on a character mean nothing if you can't use them, just ask smash 4 Ganondorf.

[@GhostbusterPalu]

"Multi hits were fixed" >they fixed Charizard's Fly >they don't fix Corrin's Dragon Ascent ...

[@dreeg1896]

Am I the only one who noticed that the patch applied to... FLARE BLITZ? Is that even a multi hit?

[@dukemon6163]

@@dreeg1896 It has 2 hits, the tackle and then the explosion. I've had several instances when it connects but it does not explode.

[@Snowballsage]

@@dreeg1896 I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen only the first hit connect. It needed the buff.

[@GhostbusterPalu]

@@dreeg1896 It is! There's a hitbox that hits the opponent and, when it hits, it causes an explosion. The explosion is what deals the damage and knockback.

[@noahr607]

“They fixed multi hits” >cries in Pit

[@Chickenman161]

*cries in samus*

[@Tohn162]

pit's multi's are decent. I just want his fair lengthened towards his body so ppl stop passing through his arm! and maybe not let his arms get hit on the final hit of up smash...

[@maimaikoa]

Ness is still too weak. Make his side special instantly kill anyone who touches it and he might be low mid tier.

[@leegak6872]

You miss the /s

[@garielgames4018]

you miss the ability of basic language understanding

[@mareeyomario123]

Hah! Nice joke! (I'm a Kirby main, not a Ness main.)

[@petery6432]

Then everyone would finally have an actual reason to complain about Ness buffs

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Smh he would still be a bottom 5

[@sine-spike]

I imagine I’m one of the three people who are actually happy that Bowser Jr. got buffed.

[@ignaciovelasco9452]

Congrats fellow mid tier main , I play lucario and he got buffed too ✌

[@zpellet6326]

Bowser Jr. is probably the one character that needed it.

[@ShinigamiStrife]

I’ve wanted to main lucario since brawl but I’ve always found him so lacking maybe now I could actually pick him up and not frustration. Also glad for Jr. I dont use him but I knew he needed some of those

[@shattermelon496]

the buffs are nice I guess, but I would've preferred mechakoopa to not lose to the r button

[@Quin10Animates]

same

[@anivibes2968]

bowser jr getting a good super armor on his side b is a big deal actually. with all his other buffs he will be more viable. maybe even getting into high mid tier

[@linguine4500]

And maybe more than 3 people will play him

[@grifleep4916]

YEAAAAA TEAM MORTON BABYYYY

[@AverageDoctor345]

He already was upper mid tier, now he might be borderline high tier

[@Bowser6495]

This pleases me so

[@TinkC43]

I’m starting to feel like the balancing team is becoming more and more out of their minds with these patch notes

[@Gatchu137]

Balance Team: *Makes flare-blitz a more consistent multi-hit*

[@TinkC43]

@@Gatchu137 That buff isn’t that bad though...

[@Gatchu137]

@@TinkC43 Did I say it was bad? I just think it's funny how unnecessary it was.

[@gbx4858]

*Makes ledge attack after an up B do more damage*

[@cadetjones9205]

Made Isabelle Side B do 2% more damage.

[@BLamb]

Showing the frame difference as the changes are shown is a great quality-of-life improvement to these videos! 👍🏽

[@MrDragoniteTamer]

"n e w m u s i c" ah, I see you are a man of culture as well

[@lbx-1581]

Sonic buffs Sonic mains: 👀 Online matchers: "ah s*** here we go again"

[@SuperPerry1000]

Feels good they fixed the inconsistency in Sonic's up air.

[@arrogantprince]

It’s still I doesn’t connect all the time but it’s better

[@smoovejuice9288]

Yeah everyone loves to complain about sonic, but irl tournaments won’t be gone forever and the games got too many inconsistencies right now

[@X-V1L3]

I hate how because of that Pikachu got buffed. *BUFFED!* Already a broken character, now got buffed even further! WTF SAKURAI!

[@Snowballsage]

@@X-V1L3 they literally gave him an almost universal multi hit fix

[@petery6432]

@@X-V1L3 Hardly a buff. Every character with a multi-hit deserves that multi-hit to work. Plus, do you really want a character's weakness be that their moves don't work sometimes?

[@cringebutyee1326]

The way this guy says "knockback" *chef kiss*

[@Fireelf]

Really appreciate the inclusion of how many frames each move got buffed by. Great video!

[@benraber2793]

“Sonic got buffed.” Alright, time to uninstall

[@Zmasher95]

XD

[@loist4475]

Why? Xd

[@loist4475]

@@Spark25293 :)

[@benraber2793]

@@Spark25293 that’s the optimal play style

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@benraber2793 optimal is not always the one used.

[@ExceedRed]

Smash Fans: Nintendo please buff the online Sakurai: Buff online..... characters? Ok

[@Mothuzad]

Sakurai seemed to suggest in his recent presentation that they apply buffs and nerfs based mainly on his own crew's play experience. So it's more like they're balancing only for mid-level players. It would be nice if they followed tournament imbalances too, and made changes that nobody else would really notice. Mostly nerfing Sonic's burst options, and/or redoing the netcode to support rollback.

[@nesswednesday2976]

They used to before COVID happened -or this is a punishment for what happened during July- ? Several characters that ranked poorly during Japan Evo 2020 got changed. This is the same tournament Sakurai attended while Diddy got carried by an infinite

[@nilobalzani4917]

"Sonic was buffed: he now can punch people into Minecraft"

[@hellointernet6849]

*NOT.*

[@PhanzGFX]

I cant believe people are really complaining about the characters that got buffed in the comments. I play sonic and he hasn't gotten much of anything besides final smash buffs or what all characters got across the board. Well deserved buffs but honestly, seeing everyone rash on the character I play, or just assume that I am toxic or going to camp or whatever, just makes me not want to be part of the community at all. It is super negative, and makes BOTH sides not have fun. You don't want to play me because you are assuming things about the character, and I don't get to play the game at all since people CONSISTENTLY quit game or refuse to play me. Its really disheartening to have to say I main the character and instantly be hated for it. But you know, apparently its okay to constantly hate on people for who they play instead of learning the matchup and finding counterplay...

[@Gatchu137]

Wah wah, I play Pac-man, and I have fun playing him. I don't go out of my way to camp people, but people still shit on the character. That's life. I'm absolutely positive that there are characters that you don't like playing against.

[@lightbluedude7628]

Yeah some people are getting pissed about moves that honestly needed buffs in the first place. They clearly buffed moves that most Sonic players rarely use. Most people complain about them since they only play online smash, which is a problem because that's only half the game. And yeah I've been waiting so long for them to do other buffs besides final smash (which is still garbage)

[@grumblegrapes7950]

Yet again, bottom five were untouched. Stay strong, Ganon mains and Little Mac bois, stay strong.

[@jccdsym6605]

It's getting harder and harder :(

[@grumblegrapes7950]

@@jccdsym6605 As a heavy main, i feel your pain.

[@quincydavis3931]

@@jccdsym6605 yea I had to make Mac my second now. I just can't compete quite the same

[@WumboLifts]

It's so frustrating trying to play little mac now. He was already struggling idk why they made him worse in Ultimate smh

[@grumblegrapes7950]

@@WumboLifts Nintendo being out of touch with fans and pro players? I'm not sure.

[@RickyJC]

Watching two Steve’s fight is like watching two potatoes trying to headbutt each other.

[@BronzeAgePepper]

Not sure I get the analogy cus I've never seen two potatoes stand as far away from each other as possible in a frantic race to extract precious resources from the earth

[@dhark1166]

Ok so im glad Shulk got some patch notes finally but was disappointed in the monado change. Vision is alright

[@kachosuffer7]

to buff a top tier is mindblowing

[@RobertrulezDa1st]

Wat was wrong with shield art that they had 2 nerf it down? It did wat it was supposed 2 do which is 2 reduce knockback....alot

[@Gatchu137]

@@kachosuffer7 They literally didn't. His counter has like a 10% success rate for hitting. Didn't fix that, but at least it's stronger? And up-smash isn't safe, and doesn't kill, but they made it so AT LEAST people don't fall out, even if you hit it.

[@Maze13]

Im so glad sonic got buffed after ages, THAT UPAIR FINALLY CONNECTS. I can play the neutral a game a tiny bit better after ages :)

[@_N_YT]

Smash community: Nerf sonic his playstyle is so toxic Sakurai: Give him three buffs

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Thank god he didn't buff spindash so it couldn't be held forever. Like the games.

[@Tangy_thecat]

I feel like tripping should return but only for sonic

[@32xios69]

😆

[@olilondonisabum7170]

no tripping should only exsit forpikachu and sonic would actually never trip he goes at the speed of light and never trips up

[@ascaredmilipede7971]

Imagine if a 1% trip chance were applied to both spindash, i would be laughing out loud when that day comes.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Lmoa.It is physically and canonically impossible for sonic to trip and his running animation doesn't physically allow him to trip,it is a fucking 8 figure peel out. Flying characters would trip before sonic does. And that would only make him spindash more.

[@olilondonisabum7170]

@@ascaredmilipede7971 except it wont it should only extist for everone besides sonic

[@fool8304]

Sonic: Increased invincibility, deduced vulnerability Yeah they totally know what they're doing

[@ahmadkazan7994]

And what move is it? Up smash,which was basically one of the slowest up smashes in game,and didn't even connect.

[@fool8304]

@@ahmadkazan7994 Oh his Up Smash wasn't safe? Poor thing, how will he ever be able to out maneuver his opponent now??

[@snaxa163]

@@ahmadkazan7994 it hit pretty reliably and was already fairly incinvible and fast i dont understand what you mean it didnt need buffs

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@fool8304 LOL,can't deal with a 14 frame up smash kid?Your the poor thing buddy. Up smash was defenitly worth the worst on game,they made it faster and safer.What are you going to do?Cry your main didn't get buffed?

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@snaxa163 the move didn't connect on tournament legal platform stages,and had 18 frames of start up.Tell me that doesn't need buffs.

[@pikminpuck8015]

They buffed Ness, Sonic, and the Belmonts but nerfed Ridley? Are you kidding me? Nintendo hates your online experience.

[@UniversalName]

Ridley has been buffed several times.

[@espio_espio]

Sonic needed that UpAir buff idc what anyone says

[@theafterburner6231]

The Belmonts buff are pretty insignificant and they actually need more buffs. They have only been touched once since the game released and it was a shadow nerf to their down air. People complaining about Belmont buffs really need to get better at this game

[@abbasalisaiyed8713]

@@theafterburner6231 honestly yeah the Belmont buffs are long overdue.

[@Ninjames]

@@UniversalName and he is still one of the worst characters. Nintendo honestly just needs to increase his weight and he would be ok

[@pav-el4047]

Whenever a patch comes out, searches for "Beefy Smash Doods" go up 2000%

[@atlassound160]

Ganon buffs needed: decreased startup on jab (7F->5F), down-b (16F->14F), and dash attack (10F->8F). Increased knockback on forward and back throw.

[@petery6432]

Dash attack does not need to be improved. It's busted as it is

[@WhimsicottFanatic]

4:24 - I haven't seen an unnecessary nerf that disgusting since the increased end-lag on Duck Hunt's SideB And for anyone who wants to bring up the Skewer nerf from the last patch, that's in a league of its own when it comes to disgust

[@jkahl5596]

Yep ridley needs buffs not nerfs

[@iamspikefire]

It's actually a QOL buff! twitter.com/5atez/status/1316475250998034432

[@_mipp]

@@iamspikefire it's not a buff, not a nerf either. It's a fix, Ultimate staff didn't want the move to work on the ledge and they removed that. In the Tweet, for that person is a buff because in some specific cases he wanted to land with "up special" and the landing hit box overwrote the original falling hitbox, but that doesn't always happens. What i've seen in many Ridley tournaments and casual Ridley videos, is people using Up Special downwards to the ledge to get a "2-frame" or attacking by surprise those opponents who don't know this is (was) a thing. So, for some Ridley users this is a Nerf, for others is a buff, for Nintendo is a fix, because it was not intended to work like that. In my opinion, they could just make the move not to hit twice the same opponent, like some other moves work.

[@iamspikefire]

@@_mipp you can still 2 frame with the spike hitbox and grab ledge with swag but yeah i agree its mostly a fix but as someone who loves spiking people this is a buff in my eyes

[@_mipp]

@@iamspikefire yeah, you are right 👍🏼, i've just tested it. They just removed the landing hit box ("shockwave"). And as I said, they should have kept both hitboxes, with a no-overlap property.

[@andresvicuna5941]

A minute of silence for little mac

[@Zaden_KT]

I was expecting more buffs. But they only slightly buffed the “annoying little shits” characters

[@bashura_0019]

Indeed. As a ganon main myself, I really didn't expect any buffs from him from this patch and I don't even expect a ganon buff on the upcoming patches

[@ahmadkazan7994]

The buffs were not major. Note that we got a whole fighter that shakuria had to work on ALL the stages on ultimate for him to work.

[@masterofdoom5000]

THANK YOU for putting the frame difference when attacks come out faster, that's the kind of information that really paints the full picture of a change.

[@marshtomp8]

Sonic Up Smash might actually be a real move now, thank the lord.

[@christians2975]

What are they thinking giving Ridley ANY kind of nerf? Out of all characters, he’s one they thought had too much going for him? And it’s removing a specific interaction that you deserve to lose a stock for if you get hit?

[@makeblacklunaeclipse3389]

"Another patch? Man, maybe Ridley will get some buffs! So we don't just have to quit the game whenever Palutena decides to press the A button!" Nintendo: heyo you see that shockwave Ridley makes? Too strong, can't have a hitbox. It's only for show. Let's remove it's damage entirely Employee: Sir, shall we do the same to Dedede, Bowser and anyone else with similar moves? Nintendo: nah, just that purple fuck.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

@@makeblacklunaeclipse3389 Employee: What about Mr. Game and Watch?

[@chongogod4870]

It better keep the up b spike or i am done with this garbage game

[@christians2975]

@@chongogod4870 don’t worry it does

[@300PIVOTMASTER]

I thought the purpose of the Ridley change was to make it easier to spike. This way, you can't save the enemy with the landing hit

[@ComradeVenus]

Imagine buffing pikachu, min-min, sonic, and ness... ...then proceed to nerf piranha plant LMAO

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Yeah I was like WTF?

[@HoboJoe007]

How was min-min buffed or piranha plant nerfed? There is nothing about them in the patch notes

[@mr.potato]

@@HoboJoe007 their rapid jabs won't clank against other attacks anymore. Idk about piranha plant though

[@Droseph101]

Isn’t that a good thing that they don’t clang?

[@user-tu1ot8ol1u]

@@mr.potato so how was min min buffed and piranha plant nerfed if both of their rapid jabs dont clank? Edit: Mr. Potato has edited his comment so this comment is no longer valid

[@supermakermatic2111]

Played some online matches with buffed Jr. - he feels SO good.

[@PikaSwamps]

Here are all the fighters that I would buff and how I would buff them: Mario - Increased spike hit box on Forward Aerial, Make Down-Air connect better Kirby - Increase air speed, Make Forward-Air connect better, Increase attack speed of Hammer Flip (Side Special), Increase attack power of Hammer Flip (Side Special) (However, maintain launch distance) Pikachu - Make Neutral-Air connect better, Make Down Smash connect better, Increase attack speed of Skull Bash (Side Special), Decrease landing lag of Quick Attack (Up Special), Increase attack power of Forward Throw (However maintain launch distance) Captain Falcon - Increase attack speed of Falcon Punch (Neutral Special) Jigglypuff - Increase attack range of Rest (Down Special), Increase attack power and launch distance of Down Throw Bowser - Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Increase spike hit box of Bowser Bomb (Down Special) Pichu - Make Back-Air connect better, Make Down Smash connect better, Increase attack speed of Skull Bash (Side Special), Decrease landing lag of Agility (Up Special), Ganondorf - Increase attack power of Warlock Punch (Neutral Special) (However, maintain launch distance) Mewtwo - Increase attack power and launch distance of Neutral-Air, Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Make Up Smash connect better, Decrease landing lag of Teleport (Up Special) Meta Knight - Increase attack speed of Down-Tilt, Make Up Smash connect better Pit - Make Neutral-Air connect better, Make Forward-Air connect better, Make Up-Air connect better, Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Make Up Smash connect better, Increase attack speed of Upperdash Arm (Side Special), Decrease landing lag of Power Of Flight (Up Special) Dark Pit - Make Neutral-Air connect better, Make Forward-Air connect better, Make Up-Air connect better, Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Make Up Smash connect better, Increase attack power of Electroshock Arm (Side Special) (However, maintain launch distance), Decrease landing lag of Power Of Flight (Up Special) Sonic - Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Decrease ending lag of Side-Tilt, Increase attack radius of Homing Attack (Neutral Special) (fix it’s aim!), Increase attack speed of Super Sonic (Final Smash), Increase attack power and launch distance of Super Sonic (Final Smash) (plz fix this final smash it sucks) Lucario - Decrease ending lag after countering with Double Team (Down Special) Wolf - Make Up Smash connect better, Increase spike hit box of Wolf Flash (Side Special), Make Fire Wolf (Up Special) connect better Mega Man - Increase attack speed of Down-Tilt, Make Up Smash connect better, Increase attack speed of Metal Blade (Neutral Special), Decrease ending lag of Down Throw Rosalina & Luma - Make Forward-Air connect better, Increase spike hit box of Down-Air, Increase attack speed of Star Bits (Side Special) Greninja - Make Up-Air connect better, Make Up Smash connect better, Make Water Shuriken (Neutral Special) connect better Palutena - Make Neutral-Air connect better, Make Up-Air connect better, Make Up-Tilt connect better, Increase attack power and launch distance of Side Smash Robin - Decrease ending lag of Arcfire (Side Special), Increase Spike hit box of Elwind (Up Special), Increase Grab range Incineroar - Decrease ending lag of Side Smash, Increase attack power and launch distance of Darkest Lariat (Neutral Special), Increase the max value of Revenge (Down Special) Byleth - Make Neutral-Air connect better, Make Up Smash connect better, Increase travel distance of Areadbhar (Side Special), Increase attack speed of Aymr (Down Special)

[@GekTC]

Shulk's Shield change could actually be a buff in some instances by making the increased knockback let him get away from combos that were otherwise true before, while still living and keeping the stock. You still need insane damage to be able to kill him on Shield Monado, so I would rather call it a buff more than a nerf.

[@demarkus4566]

Why did they buff pikachu? His first change since the game came out was a buff. Wow

[@bashura_0019]

It was only one buff, which was making forward air connect better. Nothing big about that

[@HunterForHire422]

@@bashura_0019 that's a fair buff. People falling out of multi hits should be fixed for everyone

[@GekTC]

It was part of this patch's general theme of fixing multihit attacks for every fighter, not really a "buff" per se. All moves deserve to work properly, even for top tiers.

[@HunterForHire422]

@@GekTC lol pit got ignored

[@GekTC]

@@HunterForHire422 Pit definitely should have been part of the fix, I agree.

[@MrDmoe33]

"Some multi hit moves connect better into themselves" *no mewtwo up smash* I cri

[@N12015]

Why would you EVER buff Ness or Sonic? Ness got irrelevant buffs aside from dash attack. Sonic actually needed those offensive buffs, but they forgot to nerf his broken defensive moves (Spin dash, spin charge and initial running speed).

[@intensifies6653]

I get the annoying spindash stuff but, initial speed running speed?That's one of the main components of sonic m8.

[@N12015]

@@intensifies6653 Initial dash is not the same as running speed. Sonic in Brawl and Smash 4 had a poor Initial dash of 1.5 (Below average) instead of 2.31 (Third fastest). Sonic is fast but also needs to build speed to become fast. Also, even if Sonic were 25% slower he would still be the fastest fighter.

[@intensifies6653]

@@N12015 You said running speed in your comment which confuse me a bit.And I didn't know you build up speed because after you do the initial dash you enter your dash which is running speed. So feel free to go deeper and explain to me.

[@intensifies6653]

Also brawl dash was pretty strange compared to meele which had it well

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Why would they nerf his running speed?

[@julo_ghost]

Who hasn't reserves the buffs they deserve? A)Ganondorf B)Ganondorf C)Online All of them!

[@olilondonisabum7170]

little mac

[@marwin436]

Online got buffed lol

[@ahmadkazan7994]

That's a trick questions. It is totally pikachu

[@julo_ghost]

@@ahmadkazan7994 lmao

[@julo_ghost]

@@marwin436 I know, but not enough.

[@chessycopter9619]

They really need to fix toonlink. His back throw is really wack and his grounded spin attack always gives a slow mo effect but doesn’t kill. Toonlink just needs adjustements I would say

[@slade_pikachu]

When your character still hasn't gotten their multi-hits fixed since brawl and continue to be inconsistent to this day _cries in Pit main for fair, uair, f-smash, u-smash and also the detection pitbox for side b. Fr, Pit's side b blind spot problem has gotten and still has gotten overshadowed by Falcon's side b_

[@deangel9128]

Pretty sure they puffed that last patch

[@slade_pikachu]

@@deangel9128 raptor boost still has a blindspot, even after they "fixed" it

[@Galaxia_EX]

Eh, at least we’re playing a functioning character now. But yeah, that’s a rip.

[@slade_pikachu]

@@Galaxia_EX functioning when the game wants him to. I just want him to be a better character overall, even though he's still solid. Is that too much to ask for? 😔

[@Galaxia_EX]

@@slade_pikachu Nah I get it. I’m personally happy with Pit now, but it is still frustrating when you get a read only to have the opponent fall out of your f smash. More buffs are always welcome.

[@RRGUNZ]

Nintendo is very Adamant about not buffing Little Mac in any meaningful way. Hell. He hasn't gotten any buffs period. Truly amazing.

[@TreJohnson03]

Good

[@theexaltedlt8222]

He doesn't need any. He needs a rework

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@theexaltedlt8222 if his side b worked like everyone else's, if his up would grab the ledge at heights where it literally can hit people onstage, and if people could be remotely afraid of his grab, then we'd be happy. That's not a rework.

[@theexaltedlt8222]

@@freddiesimmons1394 no because that would really fix his problem.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@theexaltedlt8222 he still would have no air game. His recovery would still be second worst before doc. His grab game would still be underwhelming. But it wouldnt be inoperable

[@matthewjones6786]

Lol, I don't understand these comments... People suddenly picking up Bowser Junior and Lucario, or trembling in their boots from Sonic and Ness, yet if these patch notes didn't exist, I guarantee 99.9999999% of you wouldn't notice! All I'm saying is that realistically, these buffs and nerfs won't suddenly make something viable or nonviable for you. :L (An exception for Ice Climbers, I can see recovery to be critically influential for them.)

[@feelingdrowzy9300]

That's subjective but go off

[@Gatchu137]

Pikachu's change is somewhat relevant, and Bowser Jr. is hugely impacted by the side-b and up-b changes.

[@EPMTUNES]

Excellent video! i like how you slow down and show the actual frames now

[@KalibreSteelblast]

Lucario still needs buffs to throw so that his moves can chain consistently at low to mid aura ranges. The changes to air-dodging and knockback from Smash 4 to Smash U took away some of his best damage-dealing chains.

[@jesusmartingutierrez441]

Your right

[@gamebroy668]

wth were they thinking buffing ness? Literally the most obnoxious character

[@somedudethatdoesthings8057]

But they buffed his least obnoxious moves. No need to wrry. Except dash attack, but I digress.

[@ProjectEchoshadow]

I think it’s OKAY

[@DarkGamer364]

Well, they now added a character even more obnoxious than Ness, they needed to find a way to balance it out.

[@jeremymockli7694]

Wait they nerfed Ridley??!?

[@natemcphaull3063]

Not really. He may not be able to hit characters on ledge with up b but thats it

[@LandStalkerNigel]

@@natemcphaull3063 but it also means he can't hit people below him who just jumped. Seems like a completely unnecessary nerf.

[@Gatchu137]

@@LandStalkerNigel I think it's supposed to make the up-b spike more consistent, because the splash damage doesn't cancel it anymore.

[@SSJIsucc]

They buffed the wrong part of Lucario's side b

[@ph1lny3]

No kidding, they should have fixed the grab hitbox. So dumb that sometimes it whiffs point-blank because some characters lean forward while shielding. They also buffed Lucario's aura in the wrong ways, should have increased his weight or something.

[@SSJIsucc]

@@ph1lny3 yeah exactly, what's the point of buffing aura at high percent when you never live that long in the first place

[@duragdee2760]

@@ph1lny3 No, increasing Lucario's weight would be broken because of his aura mechanic. His light weight is supposed to balance out his insane comeback via aura.

[@ph1lny3]

@@duragdee2760 Except as it is, Terry, Joker, and Hero do it way better. He's been a midweight through the series' time without him warping the meta much, and now he's more of a lightweight in Ultimate. The Aura is scaled at an unrealistic level, and in a game where almost everyone has a kill confirm, he rarely lives past 110%, and he doesn't even get aura until about 67%. I'd say making him just under the Mario Bros in weight is reasonable. That, or give him a little more range on some of his spacing moves. He has no real way of approaching as it is, and aura sphere isn't a great camping projectile.

[@N12015]

@@ph1lny3 Lucario is still heavier than Lucina, with a relatively flexible recovery (Altough nerfed). The problem with Lucario's aura is the inconsistency of that concept, making you a sluggish sheik at low percents, while the Saitama mode is unrealistic to acheive and is less powerful than before -(not to mention how off the whole aura concept is to Lucario).- Alongside the rage nerf, an engine who rewards more landing aerials than autocancel, everyone but Ryu became faster, a worse recovery and worse aura sphere, B-air and D-air, it's easy to understand why Lucario is not good. Weight is just the tip of the Iceberg on "Why Lucario does not work in Ultimate".

[@guidomista2162]

Quick thing about link’s up smash, it was fixed so that when an opponent is on a platform and you up smash below them, they used to be able to jump or air dodge out, now they can’t

[@willow1601]

My hopefully reasonable changes to smash, tell me your issues with the changes if you have any. 1. Little Mac should have fast frame data in the air, but same or even less knockback. 2. Mii Brawler shouldn't be the only character who has a double hit forward air that doesn't have a combo first hit(the first hit doesnt keep the opponent there for the second one.) Also make his counter more usable(the counter hitbox is literally only his hand, maybe make it his entire frontside). 3. Doc Mario needs slightly more air speed and air stalling with cape, nothing much else or he'd probably become a monster. 4. Mii gunner jab needs to connect better(the hits all have different sizes making it very finnicky to land all 3). 5. DK needs to not put his hands outward after letting go of shield, it makes him get hit by way to much, and his dodge roll animation needs to be more similar to his dash roll (he leaves his feet behind for too long getting hit by move in front of his enemy while he's behind). 6. Captain Falcon either needs a shorter yell for his upsmash or more endlag, because his yell makes it seem like he's going to be in a little endlag, but he can move before the yell is even gone. Bad for clarity. 7. Pikachu and Pichu down b spike have to actually be the size of the cloud, not the entire upper half of the bolt(or make it the spike last a little less time). 8. Increase the launch power of some smash attacks that have way too much endlag for the power(or reduce the endlag): Mii brawler fsmash, Mii swordfighter Upsmash, DK dsmash, Meta Knight dsmash, Pit Upsmash, Captain Falcon fsmash, Zelda Upsmash, can't think of any other absolutely dead smash attacks. Opposite for Wolf upsmash(has very low lag for the power and ease of hitting it). 9. Lucas pk fire shouldn't have like 3 hitboxes where if you clash with 1 you get hit by the after fire effect and die, but down b and grabs should have more utility for him(like down b a bigger hitbox and more knockback scaling)(a single throw combo that at least lets you combo off of it until 40%+). 10. Lucario up b should not have a direction lock(it leads to way too many looping self destructs). 11. Piranha Plant needs more generous up air and up tilt hitboxes. 12. Sonic needs to be punishable for spamming spin dash(neutral, down and side special) into shields, but give him more options with aerial and ground combo starters. 13. Increase knockback scaling on peach/daisy down throw(being able to do the same grab combo from 0-like 90% is not ok) Not sure about nerfs of some top tiers, or they'd become boring, but I hope the small ones I suggested would make it more fun to go against them. In terms of game changes I would decrease the buffering, not completely remove it because it alienates casual players. Players who get aerials parried should have extra landing lag. Parrying multi-hits should be more consistent, either give every multi-hit move the option to be multi-parried or give non of them. Shield-stun should be a little higher, because turtling is lame for everyone involved.

[@skylerpatrick23]

Multi hit fixes: completely ignores Samus and Falco Fair

[@HD-nb7kw]

Falco fair is pretty consistent

[@alexhardy8160]

@@HD-nb7kw True, I've been lazy in updating and am playing back on 7.something I think and I have rarely had issues with falco fair, if there were issues in 8.x it's a "unintended change"

[@HunterForHire422]

Pit...

[@ahmadkazan7994]

What's wrong about flaco's f air?

[@lycantubeves5992]

Pikachu needs nerfs, like extend his hurtbox and adding more endlag and landing lag in most part of his moves and make neutral B without knockback. I think those are great nerfs, but I don't know what everyone think, is good or bad my idea?

[@josemartha5977]

wouldnt that make neutral b useless though?

[@Seikuken]

It still needs the knock back id say limit the amount of times t jolt can come out and put more end lag after forward air and back air to make them be cautious about landing with it

[@lycantubeves5992]

@@josemartha5977 no, is like melee fox

[@josemartha5977]

@@lycantubeves5992 precisely

[@GekTC]

I still prefer their approach of buffing every other character instead of nerfing the good ones.

[@trustme3321]

So glad they finally nerfed Ridley, tired of seeing him dominate every top 8. /s

[@deangel9128]

*Proceeds to buff pikachu

[@BlitzzSolar]

@@deangel9128 yeah bro pika used to suck.. I think he’s top 20 AT LEAST now 🗿🗿

[@steviejohn]

As a ridley main I am sadder

[@deangel9128]

@@steviejohn what buffs would you want to see? I want less rapid jab endlag, and less endlag on uncharged neutral b.

[@gerardoortega323]

@@deangel9128 as a Ridley player myself I just want him to at least get a weight buff

[@ZSimm2]

Bruh ness and sonic are one of the most annoying online characters and they getting buffed? Wow...

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@Joey Simon and richer are debatebly low tiers.They needed buffs. Ness didn't get buffs in places he he struggles meaning his disadvantage is the same And sonic had more fixes than actual buffs.

[@0utrunner237]

Putting Steve in the game and now buffing Ness and Sonic. You can’t tell me this isn’t a coincidence. Sakurai is clearly mad at the fanbase. We probably deserve it.

[@hellointernet6849]

@@0utrunner237 Facts: Steve Being In The Game Is An Extremely Good Thing

[@gabrielcomer5230]

Isabelle seems to be the forgotten low tier. I'm sure every top player would forget about her if they didn't make tier lists.

[@cadetjones9205]

So it would seem.

[@zakattk001]

Dedede? He only received a few buffs last patch

[@cadetjones9205]

@@zakattk001 Same with Isabelle, except she's arguably much worse.

[@zakattk001]

@@cadetjones9205 Yeeeah, arguably. Might just be biased cuz I feel like that MU for Dedede isn't the best 😂. But us lower tiers need to band together

[@cadetjones9205]

@@zakattk001 Agreed, What buffs do you Dedede needs though? That doesn't change his overall design of course.

[@whatthewhatthe9117]

Why would they make sonic faster? He’s already incredibly versatile and useful when it comes to positioning

[@intensifies6653]

Positioning that can lead to him being campy they took the moves you don't see sonic mains use too much and gave a reason to use it.that upair change was what we most needed tho.

[@GekTC]

I am guessing in the hopes of encouraging Sonic players to use more moves besides down B. More good moves = more versatile toolkit. I personally remember using Sonic's up Smash a lot in Smash 4 and then it kind of got ruined in Ultimate, so I am glad it can actually be used for something other than hard reads now.

[@kyotanaka920]

They made those moves faster because he literally had no reason to go for them since he has DownB and SideB. Hell, out of all the moves that got buffed here... the only one Sonics consistently use is UpAir. And that buff was to make it connect into itself better.

[@dev_ilmoon]

They did because of all the bitching from the smash community.

[@Mark---W]

About time they buffed Sonic in a good way.

[@petery6432]

Exactly. They didn't buff the spammed moves

[@BelieveInTheTARDIS]

Aw man, does that mean we can't see Ridley's funny spike anymore? 😭

[@ignaciovelasco9452]

Dont worry pal , now you can see sonic's up air working, I know thats what you really wanted 😉

[@christians2975]

Don’t worry I tested this as soon as it came out, they’re talking about ONLY the landing hit box that comes out. The descending hit box of ridley’s downwards up special is the same

[@BelieveInTheTARDIS]

@@christians2975 awesome! I haven't been able to try rn so that's nice to know. 😊

[@iamspikefire]

Funny spike still exists fr fr, here's an example twitter.com/5atez/status/1316475250998034432

[@aztextwistt8024]

I can now die in peace knowing sonic's up air connects better

[@paulgentili1425]

For real, that was so annoying everytime it didn't work, also rolling out of my up smash.

[@Mellzdhaboss64]

Best update comparison videos on the market!! Good shit !

[@bryguy2049]

Yoshi is turning out to be one of the few characters that have been mostly untouched since the game's release. Who else in the roster is in the same boat?

[@MrToxSavage]

Could be worse, second patch in a row where they've deliberately nerfed ridley. The gimmicks are ALL Ridley had to have a chance in the worse matchups.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

I think Lucina is another one of those. Marth's had more changes than her, so I can't say him.

[@Yoshixandir]

Although at least yoshi is in a good spot. Some other characthers are stuck with getting nothing when they desperately need buffs or they are getting nerfs when they aren't even top tier or high tier

[@NathanSouzaXII]

Greninja didn't receive any buffs, not that I'm complaining, I think he's one of the most balanced.

[@iamspikefire]

@@MrToxSavage They buffed him actually its a quality of life change, here's a visual twitter.com/5atez/status/1316475250998034432

[@CrispyGFX]

All the Wi-Fi warrior characters got buffs

[@thewisthersgames]

Yes, because Bowser Jr. and Ice Climbers were very good online

[@loist4475]

What is a wifi warrior?

[@BronzeAgePepper]

@@loist4475 people who play using really cheap, repetitive tactics and win despite having very little skill, because the crappy netcode of playing online (made worse by using wifi instead of ethernet) throws off the timing of everything.

[@BronzeAgePepper]

@@thewisthersgames I'd actually argue Bowser Jr. Is a wifi warrior character, not a good character but the lag actually helps him. His power moves are normally easy to react to but he gets so many cheap kills by just throwing them out mindlessly, and he can sit back and projectile spam too. He's basically close to a heavyweight but smaller and faster.

[@KingBobaFett]

*Eats Minecraft cereal* I'm not joking.

[@Fangs-jo4bq]

Lucario needs to be buff more.

[@EeveeGettingPeeveed]

Bowser Jr got buffed? Thank God