Kamado Joe Brisket Myth DEBUNKED | Fat Cap up VS Meat Side Up (+NEW Tallow Hack)

[@codytutor567]

I can vouch for the smoked tallow, it really does make a difference. I haven't yet tried injecting it, but I have used it with the Goldee's rest method (tallow-lined aluminum foil wrap, long heated rest) and it's made a noticeable difference. Another terrific video James, thank you for doing what you do!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks 🙏. Let me know what you think of injecting it. I wouldn’t on my offset since it’s plenty of real wood smoke anyways but in the kj the incremental benefit is way more pronounced

[@ryanwhite2606]

What would you recommend for a good grill brush?

[@akitoyiu]

Thanks for the water pan idea under the sloroller. I am a KJC2 user, just wondering if this setup is also good for ribeye steaks or mainly for long hours cook like brisket.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Just long smokes

[@ExTrumpet]

You have convinced me to smoke my own tallow, forego the butcher paper wrap, and try the foil boat! And, of course, the Goldee's rub is about as good as it gets!

[@christopherlock8182]

I’ve just got my KJ3 classic. And have been asked to cater an event at the end of July with the showpiece being a full packer brisket, I will be trying every single one of these steps. 🤞

[@michaelgelatt8995]

Great video. Sorry if this has been asked…Loki g to do a 18 lb brisket on the big Joe this weekend. Have always done fat cap down but I’m going to give it a try up this time after watching this. For the smoked tallow, after you smoke them strain it, do you just cool it overnight then inject the next day? Also, what did you use for the dry brine? Thanks!

[@FOGOcharcoal]

Excellent stuff James. This is always a very debated point!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

thanks!

[@marc2769]

Another great video. Love all your detail and effort you put in to your videos. I can smell all your cooks from Calgary. Lol. Wondering what kind of rub you used today. Doing my second brisket tomorrow with your home made rub. Can’t wait. It’s resting in the fridge right now.

[@Lazaratticus]

Another excellent video, James. Thank you. I have used your brisket 101 video as a guide with fantastic results so far. I did notice that you started this cook with about 3 times the amount of oak that you used one year ago in the brisket 101 video. Is this something you have found enhances the quality of your cooks?

[@psychojackel69]

If you have a Meat grinder. You should freeze the fat and grind it down for better and cleaner tallow rendering. you should also do this experiment on your offset smoker.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

100%. I sometimes buy frozen ground suet from the butcher for just this

[@MrFlightlevels]

Sorry if I missed it, but what temp did you roll at for this cook? Great video.

[@Geoflect]

How would i add more smoking wood if i dont have a slot to add it?? Is it okay to open it up and throw a chunk here and there?? Or will it stop the cooking process and lower the temperature of the grill too much

[@Synthelicious]

Thanks for another interesting upload! I'll definitely try that smoked tallow.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

its so good!

[@adamsonmj]

Love the video. My last brisket I tried to blend in your tip from the previous brisket cook but I didn’t have the offset so…4 hrs at 250F then 2hrs at 280F then (your tip) overnight in fridge. Next morning heat at 250F until brisket reaches 290F (about 3 hrs). All this is fat cap up. Finally I did a hot hold wrapped in butcher paper at 150F. This was my best ever. Thanks for the tips.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

thanks, glad to help!

[@Selene_M3]

What do with all the leftovers and is it super fatty coming out of a freezer bag? Watched many of your videos and others but embarrassingly had my kamado Joe classic one 8 years now and have never done a brisket. Did some short ribs once that were tender with nice smoke but so fatty while eating we never did it again. A small flat would be a better size for us but so many warnings that this will just be tough and dry. Or should we just stick to chicken cooks. Thanks 😧

[@samlouise]

James! Love your videos. How do I get more smoke? Feel like I have trouble managing the fire once I get my heat deflectors set. I’m only using heat defectors up to this point. Cooking on Big Joe 2

[@ebradley1189]

I see you added smoking wood to the top of the charcoal instead of all at the bottom. What made you change this technique?

[@CoolJay77]

You are now officially the Kamado Joe Guru. ;) Great pointers James. I am all for preserving the fat cap. I inject my briskets with salted smoked tallow, however what I have found is that by pre-injecting briskets, the salt and smokiness help, but the fat oozes out. I have started giving the flat additional injection with warm tallow right before serving in order to make it moister, cause I am not a big fan of the lean.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

It does leak out. Forgot to mention try and poke slightly down so the fat gets squeezed out more slowly than draining immediately… like a snail leaving a trail we want the tallow to hydrate the lean as it passes by

[@CoolJay77]

@@SmokingDadBBQ Great pointer and analogy. Also in theory, the fat will expedite the cooking process in the lean. Which is why I still inject in the beginning at the cooking phase as well.

[@mitchdavis4766]

Great video as always! It looked like you did your setup and then placed the briskets on the grill as soon as you had the fire stated, rather than waiting till you had your temp locked in and the early white smoke gone. Am I right that that is what you did? I've always thought to wait for a locked temp and clean smoke.

[@danielcustar2713]

James, great video as always. Very informative and well done. Love seeing all the comparisons!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks

[@coloradoretreats]

What's the big deal with indirect heat? I got a barrel smoker that lays down on its side for free and the charcoal goes right under the meat. No temperature gage i just feel the heat. It cooks slow and taste good. What makes a deflector plate or offset smoke box better or different?

[@sevenoaksbrewing]

Could it be that any difference between the two was due to the foil boat and not so much fat cap up or down?

[@tvideo1189]

Exactly.

[@ryanthomas5173]

You showed the brisket at 202 but not probe tender... how much longer did you end up leaving it on before it got probe tender? I know you aren't supposed to judge based on temp, but how much higher did the temp climb before you pulled the brisket?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

It was 30min longer. Interestingly the temp didn’t really change but the feel got there

[@philipmangano7260]

Good afternoon I have a Komodo classic 1. I want to purchase a basket to hold my lump charcoal. I don’t want to spend a lot of money. Can you advise on the size and the company where I can purchase one under $50.00 Thanks Phil

[@stevesherwin1255]

I wonder how it would do if you put a few layers of parchment paper (or butcher paper) under it while it cooks.

[@henrykrinkle5353]

Right on, James! The BBQ orthodoxy needs challenging and you're busting it up through the principles of *(gasp)* science! Keep on cooking!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

haha thanks and cheers

[@dubShels]

Have you tried using meat churches brisket injection and instead of mixing it with water/broth use tallow instead.

[@larryb6886]

Hi, what gloves do you use, appears easy for you to handle the hot grates, etc. Tx

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

here you go: amzn.to/3EyX1rO - links are also in the caption

[@wesleydrew9242]

I'm not really able to do double-indirect with what I have currently. I have a KJC1 and only 1 deflector. I might add another deflector when they go on sale, but the limited depth and capacity has me wondering if it is really feasible for me. Do you think running a drip pan with water on the one deflector would provide enough of a heatsink to prevent overcooking the bottom in a fat cap up scenario? I also tend to do my briskets overnight when refilling the pan with water isn't feasible, so I generally run them a bit cooler than your hot and fast DI method.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

i did this on my series 1 big joe.. i am going to try a setup with the pizza stone/deflectors with the water pan in the middle. Stones on the basket. Water pan on that. x - rack on the bottom tabs with second deflectors and or pizza stone above. then cooking grids. I know this will work, just not sure about the profile of the smoke ware pan i use

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

CGS sometimes has sales on memorial day fyi - ceramicgrillstore.com/products/16-inch-half-moon-deflectors-pizza-stones?_pos=4&_sid=cfadc3b7e&_ss=r These start less expensive than the KJ ones

[@RumandCook]

Thanks for putting that one to rest. I prefer it fat cap up as well. Will have to try the smoked injection though. 🍻

[@chuckbrichta3909]

I have used a Weber for years. I also have a lot of accessories. One of them is the Vortec which is similar to what you use on the slow roller.! My question is could I have the same results with the Vortex?

[@joseadrianmanchester]

Hey, big fan of the channel here. Quick question, my brother lives in Canada and doesn’t know where to buy a good short rib, could you recommend any online dealer? Thanks in advance

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I just did a sponsored video on instagram for wild fork Canada and I was happy with the meat quality

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

These were beef ribs not short but these and the brisket I did for them were good enough to recommend outside of the video sponsor- instagram.com/reel/CsjLh7-Othm/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[@joseadrianmanchester]

@@SmokingDadBBQ thanks, the site looks great, but they don’t ship to Alberta, I think only Ontario.

[@Keith80027]

Well that settings that, fat cap up from now on! So tell me about your coffee James that I saw at 2.23. Looks like something I drink!

[@lx2nv]

Funny you did this video! I am fixin to do a brisket on my kamado. Was going to start fat cap down for 5 hours then flip to see how it goes.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

have fun and enjoy the cook

[@lx2nv]

@@SmokingDadBBQ thanks. Called an audible. Decided to use the Masterbuilt 1050. It's going on at midnight. Automation so I can sleep 8 hours. That's about how long the hopper lasts at 225

[@DanDaciuk]

I see at 4:04 you have a brisket cooking atop the grill expander. Saw a video yesterday from smoking pit joe where he also does this on a BGE. Thoughts? I'm thinking of trying this. Not only will it get the bottom of the brisket even further from the heat source but the fat cap will be even closer to the hot dome for more radiant heat to render the fat cap.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Ya it’s from this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqLXgZmJmKyNb6s It was a two parter. Part one offset part two kj so most fat had rendered so it didn’t ruin the bark of the ones below

[@klaytonhaggard4924]

Could you do a deep clean on the joe jr please mine is disgusting but I don’t wanna crack the deflector. I’ve learned all the videos I’ve seen you gotta make adjustments when on the joe jr

[@danielcharles4085]

Great video, but there is a 3rd way. Fat side down until after the stall and then fat side up after you wrap. Thats what works the best for me.

[@CyberChuckRV]

Trying that tallow next cook. Thank you for that tip. As for bark... I've always cooked fat-side up on my KJ2, but found I get a better bark starting at 225f range as I creep to 165-170. Then foil and increase KJ2 temp to 275-300 for final cook.

[@jasonmcmaster4968]

This hurts me to do but I have to challenge your “don’t need a water pan for a Kamado Joe”. I ran an experiment with my Big Joe a couple of months ago. I have always spritzed and wrapped my briskets and have just never been happy with the outcome of the bark. It’s always a good bark but I wanted a GREAT bark, as we all do. I made the decision to pull the trigger and try something: water pan under the brisket at 225 and don’t touch it until it reaches 202. I’ve never had more anxiety in my life but refused to open the lid. It takes a bit longer as expected so it was the longest 21 hours of my life. But when I did open it….. absolute barbecue perfection. Extremely juicy, the perfect bark, and not a dried out spot anywhere. Wrapped with tallow lined foil for an hour and it was the best one I’ve ever pulled from a Kamado by far. I’ve tested this method twice since then with one brisket and then a tri-tip and both times it came out perfect. I’m a believer in a water pan now.

[@anthonycummins8951]

On the fat side up, at what point do you do the foil boat?

[@edgarg.731]

James, not sure if you have an engineering background but I enjoy very much the almost scientific, A/B testing approach of your BBQ videos . ;)

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks

[@pitis2flie]

Who says that you can’t slice it with the fat cap up even if it was cooked fat cap down? Worth a try, and frankly makes more sense than slicing it fat cap down.

[@davidwindsor341]

Another awesome piece of knowledge thank you, maybe one day you could do a video of how you make the burgers from the cut off pieces you make

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Good idea. Will do

[@davidwindsor341]

@@SmokingDadBBQ Great will look forward to seeing that, many thanks

[@jonathanhubbs6281]

Always enjoy your videos!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

much appreciated

[@soumynonareverse7807]

Under 4 hours and than you mention the 321 method? Something doesn't add up I think (literally) Also, doesn't an indirect wood fired kamado call for a Komodo kamado? You mentioned it wasn't tender at 202. What would happen if you put it into a cooler with alloy anyway? Would it get tender when resting?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

My offset has not finished under 4 hours even at hotter temps like 275

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Overnight long rest would help with tenderness

[@nnader1]

Hi James, The only thing ever since I followed your recommendations and started doing fat side up is I don’t get smoke ring anymore. With fat side down the smoke ring used to be phenomenal.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Are you adding wood as the cook goes? The ring on the fat cap up looked slightly better / more pronounced but I burnt a lot of wood

[@nnader1]

@@SmokingDadBBQ actually last time I added extra couple chunks, total of 6 underneath coal. Didn’t add in the ash tray since it was overnight cook. Almost no smoke ring

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

@@nnader1 can add some celery seed to your rub to boost it

[@samacc2536]

Ooooo!! Smoked tallow injected brisket is a great idea!! Thanks James! Team fat cap up! 💪🏻

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Cheers

[@adihabursi]

Thank you for this video, always enjoying you videos

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Much appreciated

[@bent7131]

I always check in with SDBBQ before I do any fun kamado cooks because he almost always has some great updates and tricks, looks like I was a week too soon this time around. I tried fat cap side down last weekend and was a little disappointed with the results. It seemed like the entire cap drained into the catch pan and bark had a void beneath it were the fat used to be, so back to cap side up. Quick question for anyone out there, it's the first time I didn't make my brisket own rub and used one that I think is meant for pork. The flavor came out kind of off, I checked the ingredients and sugar and molasses are two of the primaries. I think I made a boo-boo and need to avoid sugars next time, is this a good idea?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Sugars are prone to burn. If you want a darker colour try my SPG and then bark builder for brisket from my rubs video SDBBQ SPG Ratio - 3 tbsp Lawrys (or 3.75 tablespoons home made copycat, see below) - 7 tbsp fresh cracked black pepper - 1 tbsp garlic - 1 tbsp approx of other spices to complement your cook (i.e. paprika & cayenne pepper etc. for colour/heat) Lawry’s copycat * 2 tablespoons salt * 2 teaspoons white sugar * ¾ teaspoon paprika * ¼ teaspoon ground turmeric * ¼ teaspoon onion powder * ¼ teaspoon garlic powder * ¼ teaspoon cornstarch More SDBBQ rub recipes in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rl7VnqlrpqifgK8 Rub 3 Brisket (bark builder… truffle binder) 3 tbsp course ground pepper corns (mix) 1 tbsp fine ground all spice (earthy sweet) 2 tbsp brown sugar (sweet) 1 tbsp garlic (savoury) 1 tbsp onion (savoury) 1/2 tbsp ground coffee (bitter) 1/2 tbsp black sesame 4 tsp ground mustard seeds 4 tsp ground coriander 2 tsp white sugar 2 tsp paprika 1 tsp ground gloves

[@dres-bbq3569]

nice comparesion again James. greetings from Holland :-)

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks and cheers

[@murdog04]

Love it! Thanks so much for sharing.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks for watching!

[@davidrussell631]

Fat cap up works great with extra deflectors or a slo roller and a water pan. You proved that, but you didn’t debunk anything regarding how most guys are equipped to cook in a KJ. Case in point is the last time I cooked pork butts on my Big Joe with heat deflectors and a foiled drip pan like most would do. I used the foil boat but I still overcooked the meat side of the pork butts since I was finishing them fat up like I do in my offset smoker. I will admit I was finishing pretty hot but still, the fat cap adds some protection to the meat. Next time I’ll have to add some water to the pan.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

no getting around the fire below the food, adding the extra deflectors is more complicated but it does provide a very real benefit at helping reduce the overcooked bottom.

[@praetorxyn]

Fat cap up, always. If you're using a cooker with the heat source in the bottom, you protect the bottom in other ways, like putting it on the top rack in a pellet smoker or using additional heat deflection, foil boat, etc.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Not 100% sure on this idea of protect vs properly render. On a direct flow offset the heat is all up top so rendering the fat cap the only chance is to have it up. On some baffle or reverse flow I have used the IR reads hotter below the brisket than the metal above so the fat cap if left up doesn’t render. I think on offsets the decision is more about render the fat vs protect the brisket. Kamado people I think introduced the idea of sacrificial fat caps for protecting the brisket which is not traditionally what it’s for. Melting fat doesn’t doesn’t penetrate the meat.. if anything it pools and can ruin your bark. The reason it stays vs getting trimmed off is properly rendered it’s awesome. I think there are better ways to protect the issues created by fire under your food than turning the fat cap into the sacrificial lamb

[@CoolJay77]

Agreed, one more strategy that I borrowed from ArnieTex, though he developed the technique using his offset, it would make even more sense for other types of smokers, specially drums. He starts the brisket fat side down for couple hours, then he flips, and inserts a sheet of butcher paper under the brisket. He started doing the paper hack cause his grates were too abrasive, but he liked the cooking outcome. I did not try the paper hack yet, but flipping alone makes good sense. And the grid marks disappear during the cooking phase and the fat cap remains intact.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

@@CoolJay77 Al did this minus the paper in his brisket on the egg vs my brisket in the boat and his own daughter betrayed him 😂 but maybe removing the variable of two different grills this is with revisiting as a technique

[@emmgeevideo]

Cooking before Facebook was a company? "Smoking Kid BBQ"? BTW, I cooked baby back ribs using the double-indirect method at 270F last weekend. After 2 hours the ribs were at ~200. I wonder why it was so fast for me?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I am mid 40’s but hide it well 😊 Temp gauge accurate/calibrated?

[@emmgeevideo]

@@SmokingDadBBQ That's worth checking. It's about a year old so it's due. Thanks!

[@tommyroberts867]

Great video James. Lot of good info.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks

[@rcg3496]

I think the boat made the difference… Next time try using the boat on both 🤔

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

The tearing I showed was higher up than just the bottom so not 100% sure. I really debated this as the point people argue of the cap for protection is that it’s your protection so I landed on my approach but I see it being equally valid to have tried the other approach

[@jasonsmith7345]

From my experience fat cap up when using a water pan makes it how I like it.

[@alzawalich9829]

Try rubbing your brisket with better the beef billion it infuses more beef flavor amazing

[@michaelmilitello5644]

Everything in bbq is a three hour argument. Do what YOU and your family like

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Haha true

[@emmgeevideo]

What if you and your family like to argue about BBQ?

[@conservativecatholic9030]

@@emmgeevideo then you’re going to have long, heated but entertaining debates.

[@EChaseWright]

Great video!!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

thanks!

[@lancefloyd8643]

Great video thanks

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

thanks!

[@mrhappy9911]

New brisket 101?

[@kakagonzalez]

Love your videos but don't think the comparison is accurate. Should have foil boat both

[@VitelWirelessPlan]

You're awesome!!!!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Cheers

[@marioh5172]

Thanks!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Cheers

[@coreysmith2196]

Waaaaaay too much work SHEEESH!!!!!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

our team placed 20th in Brisket at Memphis in May this year... I don't think from talking to the teams ahead of us their briskets are simpler

[@coreysmith2196]

@SmokingDadBBQ We know competition cooks don't taste as good as backyard cooks for a day to day basis . So when I see all of your steps,it just blows my mind,just with the Kamado Joe,not with your meat preparation. So to sum it up it is just all the extra work that that smoker you used required,not the injecting the meat and smoking the tallow(If that was this video, I've been watching hours and hours and hours of brisket videos,because I've never made one,besides corned beef which I've made countless times) But I wish you much more success, I still don't think I will buy one of those egg smoker things,it just seems for the sheer amount of moving parts and I seen some costing $2,500+!!!😅😅😅 Hell if you have to do all that work with them expensive ones,I know the lil "Cheap" $250 ones aren't going to cook as well as a Ninja 8 in 1 Smoker(Which I'm on the fence about buying)... But again good luck and hopefully you get 1st place next time for all of your effort👌🏾

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

@@coreysmith2196 no doubt the fire below your food is more complicated than when I use my offset for example and all that’s involved is feeding the fire. Kamados are versatile but low and slow smoking a good result definitely has more steps to eek out a good result managing the fire below the food than on models where you aren’t fighting against physics

[@DaVid-yp3js]

Folks who do not do their own BBQ smoking do not know the diffrence if the meat was smoked fat cap up or fat cap down.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

They won’t know what it is or why it’s better but my as well make what’s better even if nobody knows the details

[@scottflowerday7654]

Come on, get creative, cook to the stall fat cap up then turn it over and cook the remaining time fat cap down. No foil boat and no wrap until you take it off to rest. Keep water in through the cook because moisture is your friend with brisket.

[@goofsaddggkle7351]

I feel like you were so in the weeds here and had way too many individual goals, and even your own hilights/lowlights seemed to contradict your final conclusion.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

TLDR store bought wagyu tallow tastes no different than free homemade from trim

[@goofsaddggkle7351]

@@SmokingDadBBQ That homemade tallow was for me the best takeaway of the vid lol - not owning a grinder I have thrown away (or fed to dogs) all that good source of tallow for years now.

[@mike_adams]

First today ..😂

[@marioh5172]

damn. :-)

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Winner winner

[@mike_adams]

@@marioh5172 … 😂