Snare Lug Showdown: Can you Hear the Difference? | Season Five, Episode 1

What’s the perfect number of lugs for a snare drum? How many lugs does a snare need for it to be a professional model? Well, it really depends on what you want to do with the drum. In fact, the number of lugs may have more of an impact on the capabilities of a drum that just about any other feature.
Extra thanks to ASBA Drums for letting us use their TopLug snare drum for this episode. As a result, we were able to produce a true single-variable comparison. Learn more about the TopLug here: sladl.ink/TopLugPage
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access to exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314Pair
Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/ASBA TopLug John ‘JR’ Robinson Signature Snare
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson Clone of old Zildjian A, Zildjian 15” ‘Fat Hat’ Prototype hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
👂🏼👉🏼🥁
Leave your questions, comments, suggestions, requests down below and don't forget to subscribe!
*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
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Sounds Like a Drum is a CADENCE INDEPENDENT MEDIA production
For more information, visit www.cadenceindependent.com
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[@nickdenardo6479]

first of all, I LOVE the consistent attitude of 'this is not better or worse. it's just different' but I think it is also worth noting that a snare (that is not that snare) will also have more or less hardware affecting the shell of your drum. while this is probably less of a factor than how the heads and tension rods behave, this may be another nod for an 8 lug drum.

[@brent3760]

Ludwig Legacy Mahogany Jazzfest. 8 lug beast! Does it all!!!

[@gerrymartel4328]

I have a Gretsch SSB (8 lugs) since ??? and I've tried other snares (Ludwig and Rogers) that had 10 lugs and i always came back to my Gretsch. That's the sound and the feel that I like. Thanks for everything you do.

[@renatopestana9526]

Great video! You guys opened my eyes about lug count in the last video of this Asba snare drum. I have this beautiful 6,5x14" Gretsch with 10 lugs from the 80s and I really like it tuned low but I simply cannot use it for rimshots and stuff because there's too little tension on the rods when I tune it like that (I actually damaged a head playing heavy rimshots on a gig). When I saw the last video and then this I totally understood that it is not what it was made for and now I'm tuning it higher and leaving my 8 luggers for the lower tuning stuff. Really interesting videos, keep it up!

[@nephibisgaard1452]

Awsome video! Love the research you all do. I don't have time or access to so many drums. Happy that you all do the work and share with the world.

[@musicalala]

Really great vid!What everyone wanted to know and see demonstrated.

[@doughawkins7983]

I recently gave a friend’s Luddy Pioneer Snare drum a thorough clean & polish, while addressing some minor issues that needed attention. While waiting for him to pick it up, it received a good hour of playing, (needed to make sure all things were in proper working order. Lol) Long story, short. I am now in search of a 6 1/2x14, six-holer. Might even do the build myself.

[@NominalTopic]

I’ve always loved my 6-lug Slingerland (table-top tight)

[@robclaytondrums531]

GREAT INFORMATION, once again. Thank you 🥁

[@nez1703]

I love it when YT informs me there's a new SLAD video. I grab a coffee, hit the sofa and crank up my bookshelf speakers ready for Cody's happy little "Hey everybody!". ☺️

[@edwhite7475]

Thank you for doing this because i was thinking i should get a ten lug snare, but now i know im ok. I have two 8 lug snare drums, an 80s acrolyte, and the Accent wooden snare that came w my Bonham kit. Good enough for anything i need to do...saves me a lot of money.

[@BCSchmerker]

+soundslikeadrum *ø14" snare drums are also manufactured in the 12-lug format for high-tension applications.*

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Indeed! We actually set this drum up with 14 for the batter side one one of the demos in the Snare Spotlight.

[@JulianFernandez]

so cool. thanks!

[@renz-ey707]

I feel like I comment this every video, but I love the work you guys do. I've got two eight lug snare drums: one is a maple pearl 14"x5.5" and the other is a steel mapex 13"x2" The steel mapex is great for those dry, high pitched tones that I need if I'm playing punk or metal. The maple pearl is great for it's versatility. From rock to pop to jazz it has an amazing tuning range. If I find myself recording some lofi or hip hop, or just need a fat-toned auxillary snare, I like to experiment with taking lugs out, tuning the reso head in unconventional ways, using shorter than 14" snare wires, etc. My favourite thing about being a percussionist is that there are so many different ways to make something sound like a drum. That goes for making things that aren't drums sound like drums, or making drums sound like they aren't drums. This all culminates into being very happy that this channel exists. The experiments that you guys do mirror a lot of experiments that I've done and inspired me to try things I've never done; you guys just have a lot more production value than I do in my little garage 😅 Keep it up folks!!! 🤘🏻

[@lailefr8907]

This snare is magical !

[@pedrodyck95]

Wow, after playing drums for 15 years I never knew there was this big and interesting difference between the amount of lugs, good one 💪🏿

[@ixmakexfilms]

Ok so I absolutely love this channel, and I am a total slob of a drummer compared to this guy, but this is the internet soooo... gotta love the face Cody makes right after he hits a drum and is contemplating life as the sound dissipates 🤣 Keep up the good work guys!

[@johndiraimo1444]

I prefer 8 lug snare drums. As you mentioned because of their versatility but also because of how the sticks feel in the hands when articulating finesse notes.... ghosts , doubles and buzzes. There is a buttery feel to 8 lugs at more tension/tuning ranges.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Did any of the demonstrations surprise you or confirm a hypothesis you had about a particular behavior? Also, do you find yourself tuning your drums quite differently based on the context to the degree that versatility is a primary benefit for you?

[@johndiraimo1444]

@@SoundsLikeADrum The results of your demonstration were pretty much in line with what I have found in my experience. I generally tension/tune my snares from medium to high ranges so the 8 lug snare drums I have all sound and feel really good. The two depths I have are 5.5" and 6.5" both in wood and metal so I have options. I'm really gravitating more and more to those snare drums than similar ones with 10 lugs.

[@giuliocarmassi]

Fantastic comparison, thanks! Seems like focus is really what one gains with 10 lugs. The 6 seemed to be like a picture out of focus. 8 might be best of both worlds!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks! We actually felt the same way about the 10 lug option choking out on the lower tuning. This really confirmed our hypothesis that there is a certain lug count that performs 'better' for a given tuning range. 8 sure does seem to be the winner for versatility!

[@nathanowens3]

Would love to see this subject, but with bass drums as well! Another great video guys!

[@Aeolus999]

Yes it’s interesting isn’t it - fewer bass drum lugs has often been a feature of lower-end drums, and yet maybe for low tunings fewer lugs is better!

[@751n5]

Thanks for the video! I have one of those Tama 11-lug snares. Sadly, they came with single-point lugs that break easily. I should try and get that snare fixed and play with it more.

[@Eurodrummer666]

Great video as usual. I've always tried to get a low tuning from my 14" sonor Protean, but as it could not keep the tone for long. I guess it needs a kind of higher tone, I'll have to experiment. As the heads are 1 year + old, I guess I have to use fresh ones.

[@joshuabpolys]

Thx!

[@thighcurlcontest]

I bought a 10-lug drum recently thinking it'd give me more control. Long story short, I couldn't get the thing to sound good at any tuning except crazy high. I wanted something medium or medium-low to complement my main snare (a piccolo snare cranked pretty high.) After a ton of experimentation, I ended up completely removing every other lug on the batter side. Now I have a 5-lug batter (tuned medium-low) and a 10-lug snare side (tuned medium-high) and it sounds MEAN. Very fat, lots of overtones (I'd rather have too much ring than not enough - God made Moongels for a reason), and just the right amount of snare response. Very cool to see an experiment that confirms I'm not entirely crazy! Good stuff.

[@renz-ey707]

Seeing this snare drum and hearing this comparison has suddenly instilled a desire to have €1200

[@xguillotinax]

Good for different things. That's it!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Exactly!

[@section8usmc53]

I appreciate all of these types of videos you guys do, and the work you put into them. While this shows the impact of tension on the head with the number of lugs, typical lugs from most companies are mounted to the shell, and as a result, on most drums, it's going to affect the resonance substantially, because unlike this drum where you're increasing the lugs alone, on most drums, you're adding more mounting points directly to the shell. It would be great if a company would make 3 identical shells for both a tom and a snare, but changing only the amount of shell mounted lugs between the 3. This is a really cool snare, but I also wonder about the resonance of the shell with this hoop lug mount centered on the shell versus they typical style lugs being mounted 1/4 - 1/3 of the way into the shell from the bearing edge. That would be a cool comparison too. There's so many variables here, and size of the drum being included. A very small tom might require fewer lugs. 10 lugs on an 8" would be overkill except for maybe a marching drum, for example. I love all of these thought experiments, hardware experiments, and if and how they may or may not matter in a practical setting versus a solitary setting. Great job on the channel !

[@geoffcowan2384]

All good stuff. Thanks for this! Now I need to get another 6 lug... lol.

[@martijndenhartog]

On our marching bass drum's we notice a lower tone vs tention diffrence A 26", with 8 has a floppy head when too low whole 26 with 10 keeps tension at the same note

[@rix29]

Interesting. I do love the sound of 6 luggers. My 60’s Pioneer sounds similar, almost like boxy, pre EQ ed or something. The 10 lugger’s are arguably the most versatile

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Ah, and see- we've always hypothesized (and feel like it's been confirmed based on our findings here) that 8 lug snares were the most versatile. The 10 chokes out in the low range and the lugs and start to rattle. The 6 chokes out in the high range and requires an absurd amount of tension per lug. The 8 ends up at a very nice, happy medium.

[@handidrummed]

I prefer 8, though 6 is really nice on vintage drums.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

What's your reasoning and why 6 lugs specifically for vintage drums?

[@jc3drums916]

One of the online retailers made a video comparing the Ludwig Supers, which are/were available with 8 or 10 lugs (did Ludwig discontinue the 8-lug option?). I thought the 8-lug sounded better, a little fuller and more open. With the ASBA snare, it sounded great no matter the lug count, although early in the video I thought the 6 was a bit too ringy. However, I wonder if the ASBA snare, since the lugs aren't bolted to the shell, is missing a level of drum/hardware interaction that one might want to be aware of when comparing normal snares.

[@joshualyn2037]

This was an awesome vid! The only way it could be better, is to not use a 8 inch just because they get their own craziness from the size thats so wild, this test in a 6, 6.5 would be so Awesome!! WHAT a cool idea of building a drum!!!!!!!

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

I think the difference in sound focus is like a micro version of the difference between triple flange and die cast hoops. Which makes sense because die cast hoops distribute the pressure more evenly than a tfh. Similar to what adding more lugs does.

[@timm1139]

Love the vids, please keep them coming! Is there any historical evidence that “vintage drums” were made with 6 luge because they were originally using calfskin heads and wooden hoops, or made during the depression and WW2 era where metals were more expensive or in short supply?

[@scottmcfadyen293]

I notice a ten lug is drier sounding than a six lug. there will be more play in the sound with fewer lugs and the more controlled the sound will get with the most and stay in tune better. nice examination for what musical usage they all can serve.

[@AdamSoucyDrums]

Suddenly that weird 12 over 8 Dennis Chambers snare doesn’t seem like such a crazy idea 🤔

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Not at all crazy! We had a lot of fun experimenting with that sort of thing in our Snare Spotlight with this drum.

[@marty9464]

Another great video.... I'd like to hear 10 lugs on the batter and 6 on the snare side..... guessing good crisp attack with plenty of overtones..... maybe a precise, thick sound?

[@user-gm3mj1xu5u]

Well, the new Pearl Dennis Chambers signature snare has 10 lugs on the top and 8 on the bottom, so that might be something worth checking out!

[@JDavidBrown]

Lord A Mighty! I've almost always owned and played 8 lug drums. I just bought a 10 lug, and I own a 12 lug Ludwig coliseum! I need to do some experimenting.

[@anthonydratnal1870]

The amount of fine-tuning in terms of lug count and location that the ASBA allows is incredible - have you tried seeing what the "in-between" sounds would be at 7, 9, or 11 lugs? I just realized that that I'm so reflexively familiar with 6/8/10 that it took multiple videos of a drum which enables this for it to even occur to me.

[@jc3drums916]

Back in the late 80s, Tama used to make a snare with 11 lugs. You obviously can't have an odd number of lugs on the snare side though, so the snare side was 10.

[@billytrance6893]

Great topic...more questions! What size is the snare drum you are using? I am wondering if the depth of the snare drum makes a difference depending on how many lugs are on the snare drum? For instance, there have been reviews using a Ludwig supraphonic 5x14 regarding the 8 vs. 10 lugs and to my ears over several videos there is a significant difference. I don't hear so much of a difference here in this video. So, I am wondering if its because the shell is wood and/or due to the depth of the snare drum used? For me...8-lug all the way! Using a 10-lug is like putting on die-cast hoops; it really cuts down and focuses the sound and to me it sounds more "strangled" and much less open, dynamic, and free.

[@jonathanreddish8590]

i bought one of these so i could have a 6 lug 14"... its so sick!!!! and keeping 10 lugs on the snare side.. keeps it legit.

[@presterjack9764]

This has inspired me to try taking 5 nuts off my 10 lug for low tuning

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That's a ton of fun! We did an episode on that a while back.

[@philliph2118]

Please do this with bass drums, especially 20” bass drums. Many have 8 lugs per side and many have 10 per side

[@stanfordkoch1271]

Does this apply for the bass drum too? 8 vs 10 lugs?

[@Wolfiecolada]

i feel like there is a bigger difference on number of lugs on the snare side of things vs the batter head. might be cool to have 10 on top and 6 or 8 on bottom just to see if different.

[@cobyhaynes2811]

Really great video! I’m wondering what your experience has been with odd numbers of lugs on drums? Ive only come across this a couple of times on some older drums and in my experience they were much harder to dial in. Is there any logic or benefit to having an uneven number of lugs?

[@ray1981]

I've wondered the same thing...did you ever get an answer back?

[@musicalala]

Gretsch has been using 5 -lug designs on 10" toms and smaller for a long time. Wonder what Gretsch players would say about them. Yamaha Rydeen kits had the same in their 1st gen kits. I bought a Rydeen bop kit to use the 18" kick for casuals but didn't use the 10" so don't know much about the sound or tuning range.

[@johnweyers2685]

I have 6, 8, & 10 lug snares. They all sound different. It depends on the sound I want. All good in their own right. 😎 Abide

[@allenmitchell09]

Cody, along similar lines as this topic, have y’all explored how porting a snare changes it’s tone? Also a sidebar topic could be additional miking possibilities porting opens up, with examples. Basically a pros and cons to snare porting. Sorry if y’all’ve covered this already and I’m too lazy to look. lol

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We haven't had the opportunity to explore such a topic for similar reasons to why we had yet to do a true single-variable comparison like this one. The only way we can produce these episodes is with the support of a manufacturer and/or a presenting sponsor to help defray the costs involved. We would love to launch a dedicated comparison series but we just don't have the support to make that possible. -Ben

[@allenmitchell09]

Yeah man I didn’t even consider production costs on such ventures. Well at least we’re all striving forward in the best way we know how.

[@claudeabraham2347]

8 is enough, 10 is plenty. I agree that 8 lugs is better for a drum tuned low. And 10 lugs is better for high tunings. My 1979 Ludwig Coliseum snare, 8X14, has 12 lugs. Twelve lugs. I love it. But at lower tension the lugs can work loose. So Ludwig included lock nuts to maintan tension. For heads tensioned high, 12 lugs is great. It takes a while to tune 12 lugs, but the sound is great, even tension all around. To me, the 6 lug drum was just not as good soundwise. I've heard great sounding drums with 8, 10, & 12 lugs, but to me, I've never heard a 6 lugger that pleased me.

[@HessianHunter]

In my experience, 6 lug snares don't hold their tuning nearly as well for heavy-handed playing. I am always tuning super high though, so can't say how true that is for the lower tunings where a 6-lug shines.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

See, that's the key- it's dependent on the tuning range that you're after. If you wanted to always be tuning a 10 lug snare down in the gutter, you'd likely have tension rods rattling all over the place. It's all about recognizing the benefits of the equipment and applying that knowledge to the context. Cheers!

[@orti1283]

Damn I can't hear a difference even using headphones, maybe it's also due to how good the drum already is (besides me being a noob). Could you dive in a little bit more on how the feel changes for the same tuning on different lug count? I feel there's like a sweet spot where the drums just "slap" so satisfyingly, so much that you can actually feel in your hands when it's out of tune, and out of that range it just feels too lose or like hitting a table. Does that sweet spot change with lug count?

[@krusher74]

As in sounding differant a I think the majority of the difference is in the muting of the over tones. They all "sound" the same but are a little more or less muffled/ringy.

[@koolBOY8323]

vintage drum, 6 is okay. modern drum, 8 minimum. 10 are my favorite, but i'd like to try a 12.

[@sleepwhenimdead9667]

8 and 10 don’t seem much different to my ears. 6 lugs sounds like more of the shell comes through and has more openness.

[@donaldnelson8347]

Your content and the questions you go over are super informative, and usually pretty nuanced bits that really matter. I love this content. One piece of feedback, you talk so slow, the videos are way too long, and there is way too much "dead" space or literally 1-5 minutes segments of description or chatting that are completely useless, I end up skipping around to the end.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks for the kind words! Regarding pacing, we have viewers from all over the world and English isn't always their first language. Speaking slowly allows everyone the opportunity to better understand, including the automated closed captioning. We do deep dives on super nerdy stuff here and it's easy to get lost in the commentary if it flies by, even if English is your first language. Quick tip! If you want to speed things up, changing the playback speed to match your ability to comprehend the narration. Cheers!

[@DIGITALSWOON]

i think you’re overestimating how flexible hoops are. i highly doubt, given how rigid hoops are, each lug acts like an individual node for waves on the skin. what’s more likely happening is more or less consistent tension around the head. whether that’s easier with more or fewer lugs i don’t know. i think the fact that lugs might be loosening with higher counts is probably proof that each one is not acting as its own node. i think the drum head doesn’t really “see” the lugs at all, and what i think im hearing is mostly a change in the sound of rimshots. if the lugs are acting like nodes it’s probably for waves within the hoop itself! and this is transferred to the head, highlighting certain overtones.

[@leonardobucci6801]

Escucho más cuerpo con más tornillos

[@StuartJrBarrett]

I don’t see a need for anymore than 8 lugs.

[@xsonicassassinx]

10 had the fewest obnoxious overtones at every turn. winner

[@krusher74]

i've started to feel what people have most opinion about with thesound of a drum, is whether their ear likes overtones or not. I've ralized this it why i dont like remo heads any more, loads of ringy overtones

[@kushking420]

10 lugs has lots of snap, 6 lugs sounds fat. 8 kinda meh for me. great video