Snooker rules | Do you know this shocking rule ?

[@redlumb953]

Tip for KZbin channels - everybody HATES end screen cards

[@Jivvi]

They're fine, as long as there's an actual end screen. When the cards obscure the last ten seconds of actual video, yeah that's terrible.

[@dionlindsay2]

@@Jivvi Is the simple solution then that the creator of the video should leave 10 seconds of blank screen at the end?

[@Lordstrap20]

@@dionlindsay2 no if he leave the final 5 sec it's OK

[@dionlindsay2]

@@Lordstrap20 Thanks. I wish more people knew that.

[@fleurbird]

@@Jivvi simply ruin the entire plot

[@lockhimup8328]

Those big boxes that filled the screen before the end, were a brilliant idea. Well done for thinking of that.

[@kenthepen4857]

Agree, happens with all sorts of KZbin videos, very annoying. Anyone know how to stop it happening?

[@bludmoon4508]

@@kenthepen4857 yh, make ur videos longer

[@farikomike524]

@@kenthepen4857 if you are watching on a phone, turn it to landscape view and they disappear

[@davidtownson1476]

@@farikomike524 Sorry, were still there.

[@equaliser9043]

😂,

[@notfromthebottle4891]

Fantastic commentary from The Spaceman Dominic Dale as well. Being fully aware of what was happening and explains perfectly.

[@robertocurrlos7470]

Professor Snape but a gentle snape😊

[@Justaglorifiedcrew]

Whitey bale

[@adamsmith4813]

But didn't explain the logic behind the rule, if there is any

[@robertocurrlos7470]

@@adamsmith4813 most rules don't necessarily have a logic. It's just rules of a game :)

[@mintfiction]

ahaha @@robertocurrlos7470

[@alexanderthegreat9663]

Another rule I didn’t know was if I fluked the black in and beat my mate 2-1 he can hit me over the head with the butt of his cue 😬

[@resnonverba137]

Live and learn.

[@oldtimer5111]

Don't ever beat him 5-1 you might not wake up.

[@neilwilliams4420]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍

[@vajindertaak3158]

Hahaha, that made my day!

[@marktaylor4542]

@@oldtimer5111 great comment bud

[@clintonmanning6433]

Well, kudos to the ref. Been playing snooker 25 years and I have never heard of that rule 😟

[@phillwainewright4221]

I played in an amateur league 30 odd years ago, and we all knew the rule. I'm surprised a professional didn't.

[@barflytom3273]

you may never have come across this situation, but it's the same rule. if the score is tied when the black is potted black is respotted. it's logic. not a different rule.

[@MrNicePotato]

@@barflytom3273 But here the black is not potted. One of them faulted instead.

[@barflytom3273]

@@MrNicePotato good point, but it doesn't make a difference, the score is still tied at the end of the frame. if you faul on black the frame is over.

[@Welshwolf62]

You've never played snooker then my boy, NEVER ,yik tang.

[@Eagle_of_Liberty]

Yes, it's written in the rulebook which is available online: potting OR FOULING the black, when it's the last object ball on the table, always ends the frame theoretically; and because here they tied 60-60 after the foul, the frame is considered TECHNICALLY finished and therefore the re-spotted black is played because it's needed to untie the match, since aggregate scores are not relevant in this set/game.

[@oleggorky906]

That’s the first time I have seen it happen where the last black was fouled with the frame tied. Thanks for the additional explanation.

[@marasmusine]

@@oleggorky906 Furthermore Kyren should have played his green Quizzlestick.

[@JohnJaySnookerChannel]

You know your stuff Frank

[@jacobusjonck2172]

What would have happened if the black also dropped?

[@zbigniewczaykowski514]

@@jacobusjonck2172 Nothing different, its still a foul for the white going in and 7 points to your opponent,still a tied frame and a re spotted black.

[@sauzeeee]

Another shocking rule: add a blank screen a few seconds after the video ends so the card won't block the game lmao

[@AsturiasFamilyVideos]

Dominic Dale (commentator) is such a classy guy, even when he's critical of the players.

[@jassonsw]

Been playing and watching snooker all my life and didn't know that rule.

[@paulm813]

You can only score once on the final black.thought all new that

[@christopherfarrington9270]

and now your 2 months old 🙄.

[@jassonsw]

@@christopherfarrington9270 Two smarty pants. Shame neither of you can spell ;)

[@paulm813]

Surely if you play to a world class standard and play a sport to earn your living.you would fully know the rules..spelling looks ok from both of us.consider I spell well for being two months old

[@jassonsw]

@@paulm813 Right. And I don't play to a world class standard, I'm just an amateur :)

[@SnookerLoopy14Seven]

I've never seen this happen in over 30 years of playing and watching this game. Well done to the ref as I can't imagine it's a rule she has to use a lot, and Dominic Dale too who also seemed well versed in the rules

[@Woody991]

The rule is used all the time. The frame is over when the black is potted or the first foul on the final black. The fact the points difference is 7 is irrelevant. Other than the fact the frame is then inevitably tied so has to be a black ball.shootout to settle it.

[@PatrickRyan147]

@@Woody991 "The rule is used all the time". You obviously don't watch much snooker. Like the OP, I've been watching snooker over 30 years and this is the first match I've ever seen where the final black was fouled.. You're doting 🤪

[@Woody991]

@@PatrickRyan147 Firstly I watch a hell of a lot of snooker. Secondly I’ve also been watching over 30 years. Whilst fouls on the final black are rare at professional level, they aren’t rare at lower levels. But you misunderstand. That’s not my point. The rule is used all the time because players invariably don’t pot the final black and finish after the pink. THIS rule is precisely what is being implemented in order to do that. Since if they have a lead of more than 8 points, there is no point playing on as they cannot lose. A foul won’t result in 7 points and the chance to pot the black. It will result in the end of the frame. Look a bit silly now don’t you.

[@PatrickRyan147]

@@Woody991 🤔🤨😂🤣😂 nice try 👍 4 (a) "When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame". 6 (a) "A player may only concede when he is the striker". The rule is hardly ever used because the situation hardly ever arises. The losing player either concedes or the winner just makes a winning break to the final black. Word salad aside 😂🤣, the exact rule we're talking about here is "When only the Black is left, the first foul ends the frame". So the rule is only used IF the final Black is fouled. So to say "the rule is used all the time" is a gross exaggeration. This one example here is the only time that I've ever seen the rule used in over 30 years of watching and playing. You're having a giraffe son 🤪

[@andrewcoxon5214]

I get what you are saying…. I reckon it’s one of the most rules that’s not known about

[@adrianwright8685]

Wilson, I would guess, has been playing snooker for a good deal longer than the referee has had any connection with the sport but he didn't know whereas she was "100%" sure. Well done her!

[@cityzens634]

It’s her job to know every rule whereas Wilson has never even seen that situation before it’s so unusual. So I would say it’s excusable he didn’t know that rule.

[@sbaxter4207]

Statue and medal for the ref. Rename the tournament after her.

[@nakkadu]

@Stephen Lee He was just surprised, he accepted it once the ref convinced him - most people seem to like him.

[@jeschinstad]

@@cityzens634: He's a professional player. Seems a bit unprofessional to not know the rules of the game.

[@ThePurist007]

@Stephen Lee I bet the real Stephen Lee would have known the rules, right?

[@Afterthoughtbtw]

I found it far more shocking that a pro did not know the maxim that 'a foul on the black ends the game' when there are just the two balls on the table. That was drilled into me by my father when I was four!

[@Rick_MacKenzie]

Thanks. That explains it. It also explains why games end if the pink is potted and a player is more than seven points up.

[@travisaxewound4748]

Yep, happened in a local league match years ago. White nearly went in but instead angled the other player who failed to hit the black and drew them level. Fortunately we had a qualified referee in the team who explained the situation was no different to someone potting the black to tie a frame.

[@colindavid2078]

FOUL on the Black, frame is over. The scores were all tied, so a black ball fight is played. Very old and simple rule, which I thought pretty much everyone knew! EDIT: I gave a thumbs down for not being able to see the last shots due to screen cards!!

[@EVil-ob8in]

Only thing that’s shocking is Kyren not knowing this rule.

[@fatroberto3012]

It is astonishing that a pro doesn't know that a pot or a foul on the final black is the end of the game.

[@johnward374]

Alternative ending. Frame and match to Chen, after one hour of Wilson firing off texts to WPBSA to say. This respotted black ball rule stinks.

[@SteveNinetyski]

I have played for 20 years at club level and never knew this. But in my defence I have never seen it happen or had it happen to me. I think Kyrens thought is more intuitive as the frame doesn't seem to have ended, unless of course you are aware of this rule.

[@146-]

Very true, every day's a school day! Never new this rule and was as 🤔 as kyren!!

[@PointNemo9]

A foul on the black always ends the frame

[@billymabum3514]

You’ve never seen someone foul on the final black ?

[@castleanthrax1833]

Yes, but as soon as the ref told him she was 100% sure, he should've sat down and shut up.

[@leonperry123]

Well I missed the last shot due to youtube putting up next logos on

[@Adiounys]

Channel owner does this

[@bonnetdedouche]

Doesn’t do it on landscape with your phone tho 👍🏻

[@ecosse1982]

im dead and now im dead again

[@aswinsenthilnathan3180]

Touch the screen. The logos will be become transparent

[@Jivvi]

@@bonnetdedouche Yeah , it does. Unless your app hasn't been updated since they got rid of annotations.

[@steviemax147]

Excluding the idiots, everybody who has played snooker and knows the basic rules knows that there can only be 1 foul on the final black and then whatever the frame score is stands no matter what!

[@duncanbirss8923]

Amazing on here how many people don't know a simple rule

[@squirrelpatrick3670]

I knew this rule from years back. The idea is to stop someone playing on when only one ball remains when 8 points or more down, which could be very dull

[@leonhardeuler675]

I don't see why that would apply here though at 7 points down. I agree that if a snooker were required with just the black left, the frame should be over.

[@Woody991]

Exactly. Thank you

[@Woody991]

​@@leonhardeuler675 It doesn't apply here. But that's why it exists. Or you could keep knocking the black around from 50 behind, hoping your opponent fouls repeatedly. Zzzzz

[@tobyharling719]

So, the rule could be amended so that the frame is only over if the difference in scores is 8 points or more.

[@Bluezulu17]

Wilson's logic makes sense here though

[@castleanthrax1833]

Questioning the ref when she's already made the ruling AND told him she is 100% sure of her ruling makes no sense.

[@jonathandolbear7880]

Spot on, first foul on the black ends the frame and if the scores are level it’s a re-spot. I had the same ‘argument’ in a club competition where I was 7 point ahead, went in off but left the black over the pocket. It’s a good rule that has always been there as far as I am aware.

[@rajeshpatil2028]

Hopefully you won that frame at club. 🤞👍

[@Coneman3]

Why is it a good rule, because it disadvantages the next player if the black is near a pocket.

[@bazcuda]

@@Coneman3 Because it's also possible that a foul on the final black, although it gives the opponent the requisite 7 points to draw the game, could also leave the black in a very _disadvantageous_ position for the next player. So that fouling the black, although forcing the draw, actually gives the fouler an advantage. So to keep everything fair and above board, the black is respotted and the players play a mini black-ball-only game to decide the frame for one player or the other. Quite sensible really. (I've added this reply to both threads)

[@choppy249]

I’m sorry to disagree but I think it is a very bad rule and needs changing . For instance in your situation you have just committed a Foul on the last Black yes . I think we would all agree that after committing a foul you need to be penalised , so for example during the normal course of a frame if this happens your opponent gets the added seven points plus he has the option to take the next shot OR put you his opponent back into play if the balls are disadvantageous to him . This happens all the time during the normal course of a frame . But however in the situation that happened to you , all this changes . You have just fouled the last Black and given your opponent seven points tying the frame but then your opponent is Not given the option of taking his shot or putting you back in . Instead there is a re spotted Black and the cue ball placed at the baulk end . Then it is entirely possible that you could win the toss and with your next shot double the Black up the table and win the frame . So with your last two shots you can foul the Black and then immediately ( more or less ) pot it and win the frame . That just cannot be fair as in this situation you haven’t really been penalised for committing a foul because with your next shot you win the frame . I actually saw this happen many years ago ( over 30 ) in a televised match and one of the commentators , an ex Canadian player said that although this was the rule it was extremely unfair and needed to be changed . I guess that obviously because this doesn’t happen very often is the reason why the governing body hasn’t bothered to alter it . But I still think it is Unfair . People keep saying , Oh well you are only allowed to score points off the final Black once but even this isn’t true because somebody has to score points off it again a second time after the re spot , so Why have the re spot at all ? Much fairer surely to just let the players carry on with alternate shots as all throughout the normal course of the frame . I know that rules are rules and the law is the law but sometimes the rules and the law is changed to make them fairer . It happens all the time in sport and in life doesn’t it .

[@ThePurist007]

@@choppy249 don't be sorry to disagree, we're well into it! Do you not think that the penalty for fouling when 7 ahead on the black IS the re-spot and that is sufficient? Otherwise you'd be effectively penalising the player twice (er...probably). I understand what you're saying in your example - personally if I'd lost a frame that way, I'd just accept it and say well done. On the other hand, if you've won the toss and fancy it, why not have a go at the double? That's a great way to win it, come on. Remember, the frame finished tied - it's not as if both players hadn't had their chances. As for not changing the rules, and of course they are potentially subject to change, I guess they simply prefer to keep the purists happy.

[@paulstreet3454]

A frame normally ends in one of three ways: A concession, in which one player gives up due to being too far behind to have a realistic chance of winning the frame. Concession before the snookers-required stage may be interpreted as ungentlemanly conduct and result in a penalty of a second frame being applied. The final black is potted legally (including after a re-spot), and this does not leave the score tied. The striker leads by more than seven points with only the black remaining. They may claim the win at this point, but may also elect to pot the black despite having won the frame after potting the pink. There are three less common ways to end a frame: A foul on the black, when the black is the only ball left. It is sometimes wrongly assumed that play continues after a foul on the black if there are fewer than seven points between the scores. This is not the case: the player who is in the lead following the assessment of a penalty after a foul, when only the black remains, becomes the winner. Failure to hit a ball "on" three times in a row, if the player has a clear sight of the ball. The referee will warn a player after a second such miss that a third miss will mean that the opponent will be awarded the frame. This rule does not apply if the player is snookered. As missing due to avoiding a direct shot on a ball is usually a tactical, rather than skill-related, outcome, this rule is rarely invoked, as a player will simply hit the ball directly on the third shot. A player may incur a verbal warning if the referee deems that he or she is taking too long to shoot. Additional hesitation may forfeit the frame to the opponent at the referee's discretion. If the score is tied after the final black is fouled or potted, the black is re-spotted. The winner of a coin toss by the referee decides which player will take first strike at the black; that player receives the cue ball "in-hand" for his/her first shot. Play then continues normally until the black is potted or another frame-ending situation occurs.

[@GeoStreber]

You forgot one. Theoretically it's also possible that the referee might kick a prayer out for some type of inappropriate behavior.

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

@@GeoStreber You also forgot one: a player suddenly collapsing and not able to play anymore.

[@un_ubcribed]

@@youuuuuuuuuuutube you forgot one. A protestor gets on the table and throws orange powder.

[@Woody991]

Spot on

[@timmoliterno9239]

Don't forget 3 misses when you can see target ball full

[@paulbull3431]

I was still waiting for the shocking rule and the video finished. Think 99% of players know this rule so no shock whatsoever

[@aquacruisedb]

99% of players - that might be correct, but I suspect most viewers don't...I didn't know it, and I still don't understand why play didn't continue since scores were then level and either could win the frame. Question - instead of the in-off if he'd fouled by just missing the black say, would that still be the same?

[@IlaNiira]

@@aquacruisedb Yes it would. When the point difference is 7 points or less the overall score no longer matters. Next pot or foul ends the frame or results in a re-spotted black.

[@jardov1234]

It seemed to come as a surprise to Wilson, and Chen didn't look too sure either

[@necessaryevil3428]

Well done ref because i didn't know this rule 👏

[@PointNemo9]

Nothing shocking about it

[@markbowler7279]

Yes there is

[@nabeelawan9428]

Yea nothing shocking about it as thats the rule

[@zaydzglzi8811]

If Chen did a fault and the résultats become 61-60 ,what happend before this ?

[@PointNemo9]

@@zaydzglzi8811 The player with 61 points would win as a foul on the black ends the frame.

[@lewiswatkins8457]

Was actually lucky that he potted the white.. Bad rule I'm afraid he gained advantage by making a faul... The black was over the pocket..

[@CRyan71]

Exactly. Why should Wilson be disadvantaged.

[@Malincanada]

What advantage? White goes in...Wilson gets 7pts and a re-spotted black. If the white hadn't gone in Wilson would then have to pot the black and go to the re-spot. How would have him being made to pot it been better for Wilson?

[@CRyan71]

@@Malincanada because the black was over the pocket and if it was at any other stage in the frame Wilson would have white ball in hand and been allowed to carry on. The point is why should it be any different just because the black was the only ball remaining. Why is it deemed over when the black was still to be potted.

[@lewiswatkins8457]

@@CRyan71 exactly well said sir.. Don't believe the balls should be interfered with by the ref.. Why should the black get moved when in live play. It wasn't in the pocket it was on the table..

[@Malincanada]

@@CRyan71 Because that's the rule. If scores are level at the end of the frame, you go to a re-spotted black. When the white went in the pocket, the frame was over. The scores were level so they went to a re-spotted black. If Wilson had only been 6 behind, then when the white went in he would have WON the frame. Are you saying he should have had to pot the black after that? And if Wilson had been 8 behind, then none of this would have happened as the frame would have already been over.

[@AD-kv9kj]

Well, I've learned a new rule here too. It seems unfair in this instance though, because the black was over the pocket for Kyren to easily take the frame, yet his opponent playing a bad shot previously somehow gives him an advantage of removing the black from over the pocket... Therefore, also, tis would mean in a similar situation a player could just deliberately foul to remove the black from a pottable position and have it respotted. This may be a rule, but not sure it's a good one? Playing a bad shot and going in-off like that should not result in you gaining an advantage, surely.

[@Zandohaha]

It's not an advantage though. If he leaves the black over the pocket and Kyren pots it, it's still tied and a respotted Black. He gets the 7 points either way. He just can't get 14 points for a foul and then potting the Black and skip the respot.

[@TPH250290]

@@Zandohaha That was AD's point though - why shouldn't you get the advantage of the 7 points for the foul and then the easier shot on the black if your opponent fucks up that badly? It happens at any other point of the game.

[@JalandharShere]

Its not a new rule. Its always been the rule. Points are tied

[@deankeith830]

why would you deliberately foul to remove a black from a pottable position ? what would the advantage possibly be to give your opponent 7 points instead of potting the black and receiving 7 points ?

[@tobyharling719]

I agree it's unfair. Wilson should have been able to play the black with cueball in the D. Again the rule should be amended so the frame is only over if there are 8 points or more between the players.

[@ZEUSDAZ]

And once again that's a perfect example why you shouldn't play a respot black that way as it always leaves that possible double on, I just don't understsnd why pro's do that now, as a player for 35yrs I'll always play it up the spots to the bulk.

[@Fletchlie]

I agree, but there were shots played in between that were obviously cut out. Chen chips the black onto the right cushion as we're looking at the table, but then Wilson plays the double from the same side. For this to happen the black and white swapped places somewhere along the exchange. In fact Chen chips the black to just above the bottom right pocket on the cushion and the white further up nearer the left middle. *Baulk.

[@MrChrissy1r]

What a crap , click bait load or rubbish!!! WHY COVER THE LAST MINUTES WITH POP UP BOXES!!! THUMBS DOWN FOR THAT!!!

[@catweasle5737]

This is not uncommon that a player doesn't know the rules. I have seen it with Ronnie, Higgins, Dott and Selby to name a few.

[@ViralVideosWTF]

Wow you learn something new everyday, I didn’t know that rule I would of thought in of black would stay in play

[@ThalesPo]

would've*

[@ronnieherd9247]

*off

[@ViralVideosWTF]

Wow looks like the grammar police are here 😂😂

[@ThalesPo]

@@ViralVideosWTF is*. And I'll write you a $100 ticket for this mistake.

[@nakkadu]

@@ronnieherd9247 *have

[@christiano8088]

Jesus even club players know you can only score once off the final black.

[@tracypanavia4634]

Jesus disagrees.

[@u.v.s.5583]

@@tracypanavia4634 Then Jesus sucks at snooker rules.

[@warreng675]

I've got a rule, just make them up

[@deistdean486]

Being the type of person who's too lazy to read the comments or listen to the commentary, I would say that the referee is at least 50% correct.

[@patrickdolan2014]

Nah, she was 50% wrong mate .... I’ve watched it twice now

[@CRyan71]

So what would happen if that foul put Wilson ahead? Is the frame over then? Without the black been potted? And if so, why should it be any different just because it's tied.

[@philreynolds7874]

good question cr

[@johnward374]

Frame over Wilson wins even if it's by just one point.The fact that it was a tie is the only reason the game carried on with the respotted black.

[@eskertoo]

It's dead simple.The rule clearly states that the first foul or pot on the black ends the frame unless the scores are then level in which case the black ball is respotted and the players toss up for choice of who takes the first shot.The next pot or foul on the black ends the frame.That rule has been in place for at least 50 years.

[@michaeltrumph121]

It's an incredibly stupid rule

[@eskertoo]

@@michaeltrumph121 It would be much simpler to treat it the same as any foul.Leave the black where it has finished and the non-fouling player has the choice to play the next shot himself from the D or put his opponent back in.That way the player who fouled definitely has no advantage.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@eskertoo I agree with this option, it makes much more sense.

[@pjay3028]

@@eskertoo I presume the rule is written as it is to ensure that the frame always ends once points have been scored off the black to ensure there's no way a player can go for "snookers" on the black if they're more than 7 points behind. Wording the rule as it is, is probably the simplest and clearest solution to this point, even if it does result in what happened in this video.

[@benjaminvolant2469]

@@pjay3028 that's a fair point

[@flipthescript-karatekid]

Same thing happened to Bond in his first round match v Hendry in 2006 WC. Dom Dale for Prime Minister 👊

[@bazcuda]

Any score, when the black is the last ball, ends the frame. If that makes the scores level, the black is respotted. That's been the rule for decades. Amazed any pro wouldn't know that 😱

[@TearTheRoof0ff]

Just to clarify for others, 'any score' means any _addition_ of points to either player, not their running total.

[@bazcuda]

@@TearTheRoof0ff Thanks.

[@zorancickaj-radiotakariga1483]

@@TearTheRoof0ff exactly. First tie the frame, then respot the ball.

[@karabinjr]

why dud chen play the shot then? the one on which hef fouled?.. karen missed, hus visit is over, he is 7 behind, the black is the last ball - what are you talking about?

[@ThePurist007]

@@karabinjr it's quite simple - although Kyren missed, he was still only 7 points behind, so he could still tie the frame. When Chen fouled, that levelled the scores at 60 apiece. That effectively ends the frame as a draw and it is then decided with a re-spotted black, with the cue-ball returned to the 'd' - the players toss a coin to determine who goes first. Any score then, either potting the black or fouling, would decide the frame.

[@TheJohnCooperShow]

silly rule - he shouldve had ball in hand

[@stevemarks9360]

Why say such a stupid thing? It simply doesn't exist in snooker at any time!

[@SotonCueMan]

Always been the rule, first foul on the black is end of frame. If it wasn’t then players could continue to play needing snookers with only the black on the table, so when you see players who have won not bothering to pot the last black would never happen...

[@TheJohnCooperShow]

@@SotonCueMan it’s unusual to see someone foul on black

[@mqb5151]

Been playing snooker since 1984 and I never knew this rule

[@milanugrin9417]

Players can score only once on the last ball. It doesn't matter if it's a pot or a foul. The rule is easy as f*ck and its justified. This rule prevents a pointless attempts of force opponent to foul when the last ball remains on the table. Without this rule, every frame could be endless. For the same reason, the black ball is not played when the point difference is bigger than 7. And even though I'm a big Kyren fan, I don't believe he didn't know that.

[@uweschollmeyer9409]

The irony in this situation is just that it actually prolonged the frame. Instead of the one player (Wilson) just carrying on and surely bring able to pot the black with ball-in-hand, a respotted black was necessary.

[@code_explorations]

Thanks for actually explaining it. It made no sense to me before. I think it’s poor how it gives the advantage to the player who just fouled in this case, giving him another chance to win.

[@wiidub9225]

Chen was like "Me first,me first" he hadn't have a clue what Kyren was talking about

[@kamranahmed5366]

🤣

[@Teccie46]

Once the pink dropped it was a black ball game, first foul on the black in play, foul made the score 60:60 frame over - re-spotted black ball game.

[@danb6087]

From my view why should a player, Chen, benefit from his foul? He screwed up, potted the white and should have lost the frame. A re-spot helped him??? Just a question on the rationale behind the rule not an attack.

[@danb6087]

@David Davesby 🤣🤣 someone needs a chill pill 💊

[@danb6087]

@David Davesby 💊💊 Double dose for you 😂

[@danb6087]

@David Davesby anxiety, yea non there. Afraid, not sure of that either, or maybe anxiety of drinking a lot of rum with my mates as we do drink quite a bit over the BBQ but I guess that isn't socialising🤣. About taking people, I am pretty sure that's against the law in the majority of countries, I don't think you should be doing that, if you are you may want to get your self checked out. In the meantime here is another pill 💊🤣

[@koll789]

With only black remaining, first pot or foul on the black ends the game. If the scores are level, it's a re-spotted black. If you didn't have that rule, a frame of snooker would never end.

[@scottfisher661]

Never seen this situation before but I was aware that on the last black only 7 points are available so I would have assumed this to be the case

[@Marcus__Trance]

That's the best description Scott. My understanding is the same. When more than one ball remains, exc. the cue ball, there is an infinite number of potential points available due to snookers. But when only the black remains there are only 7 points available to either player, which can be gained by potting it or your oppo playing a foul shot. The in-off gave the 7 away and therefore it tied the frame forcing a respot.

[@GaryM67-71]

Surprised so many don't know that the first foul on the black ends the frame. If tied, therefore it's a re-spot.

[@englishman1960]

Yes I'm surprised too that so many people don't know this rule. which includes professional players as seen here. It is a good rule, because it means a player cannot win if he's more than 7 points behind with just the black remaining. Otherwise play would continue and the person in front could still lose if he fouled on the black once or twice and his opponent then potted the black.

[@Fletchlie]

I never knew this rule, I would assume leave the black with cue ball in hand. An interesting rule I found out a long time ago now is that you can't snooker behind a played ball when a free ball is called, unless only the pink and black are left on the table 🤷

[@donsimon2830]

You beat me to it by one day you bastard.

[@PaulKeywood]

That's where the saying comes from, 'a foul on the black ends the game'.

[@burnlastsunday]

I couldn't see the ending coz KZbin decided to put pop up ads for two more videos at the bottom of the screen covering the two pockets. Fucking HATE when they interrupt videos that way and there's no way around it.

[@dannygjk]

I think the boxes thing can be turned off in your settings somewhere.

[@burnlastsunday]

@@dannygjk If that's true, I owe you a beverage of your choice. These things have been driving me nuts. Almost as bad as a song being interrupted by a stupid commercial.

[@qed456]

this is like a chess grandmaster not knowing the en passant rule

[@renardmigrant]

I believe if Wilson had had one point more, a foul on the black ends the frame in Wilson's favour, even though it's 61-60 and there's still 7 points on the table.

[@richardwilson3771]

Correct, only 7 points can be scored on final black so any foul gives that 7 points to other player and ends the frame, if Wilson was 8 points behind after pink went in, frame over regardless

[@tahachihab8226]

Correct that

[@tahachihab8226]

@@richardwilson3771 he wasn't going to pot the pink if he knew he would been 8 points behind on the black No sense in the second part of your sentence

[@richardwilson3771]

@@tahachihab8226 but he would have done as he didnt know the rule

[@tahachihab8226]

@@richardwilson3771 thats beyond corny even if you tried your best

[@kevint7072]

So I'm absolutely sure Kieran would know the rule that if his opponent had completely missed the black but the white had stayed in the table then he would have received 7 points and the balls would have been respotted. So why does he think that just because the white went in a pocket that the black should stay where it was and he has the white as ball in hand? Rule has always been that you can only score 7 points off the black be that by potting it or a foul.

[@nakkadu]

The situation you described is the same....a foul on the black, he just got confused in the moment and queried it.

[@johnward374]

@@nakkadu I wonder if something like this happened in my club once and the player got very angry, because next day the black & pink balls were missing. They were found later on down the loo.

[@Lenovo-vz7ln]

I think it's slightly confusing because of the way that it has been presented. There are actually two things happening at the same time. Firstly, the foul on the black ends the frame. Then, because the foul brings the scores level, the black is re-spotted to decide the frame.

[@maxington26]

It's presented in real time. The only confusing thing is this specific corner-case of applying the rules. A situation which almost never arises. Props to the ref for the knowledge, and nothing wrong with Kyren asking the question.

[@castleanthrax1833]

There was nothing wrong with Kyren asking the question, but as soon as the ref answered "yes," he should've let it go.

[@maxington26]

@@castleanthrax1833 Yeah ok I agree with that. Fair point

[@RussellPeacock-q7k]

It's not a shocking rule. It's the reason that the majority of frames end on the potting of the final pink, as only 7 points can be scored from the black (either pot or foul)

[@PointyTailofSatan]

It's like the rule when the ball(s) on is/are in an impossible snooker, like surrounded against a cushion by colors. Almost no one knows the correct rule. You have to play the cue ball directly toward a valid object ball, (basically shooting deliberately into a snookering ball) and hard enough that you would have hit the object ball if not for the snookering ball or balls. You will foul of course, but it will not be called a miss, and the balls will not be restored to their original places. The next player must have full access to a ball on afterward, or they will get a free ball. Another rare one is being angled by the corner of a pocket after your opponent fouled and was not called a miss. Even though the cue ball is still on the table, you have the option of playing the cue ball from the D.

[@TheRip72]

You are correct about the impossible shot, but the angled ball one is an old rule which was removed many years ago (in the 1990s I think). I was a referee until recently & older referees mention the angled ball rule & the fact that it was removed.

[@deankeith830]

The "miss" rule only applies in the professional game .... in any other form its a Deliberate Miss

[@jarrodfisher7089]

I thought everyone knew this rule crazy a professional snooker player not knowing unbelievable

[@lukeshackleton6282]

You can only score once from the final black, including fouls, stops a frame of snooker from becoming perpetual

[@bbwnpat]

Confused. New one on me. How can it become perpetual if Wilson goes on to pot the black from from the D? Just asking 🤔

[@TurinTuramber]

@@bbwnpat I guess if black never gets potted but cue ball keeps going in off or missing.

[@AngrierGorilla]

Foul on the last black gives 7 points to the opponent and ends the frame. So if the score is even it's respotted black.

[@Turboginge]

The rule is that the first points scored when only the black is left ends the frame.

[@BitcoinEffect]

Total noob here...why then wouldn’t a foul on a respotted black result in a loss for the player having fouled, i.e. 7 points awarded to Wilson for the foul on a black? Be kind: brand new to the game with an honest question. Thanks

[@speaketh]

@@BitcoinEffect A foul on a respotted black would indeed end the frame in favour of the other player. The foul in this frame, however, came before the respotting, and was actually what lead to the respotting in the first place. If Chen had missed the black after that, he would have lost the frame.

[@BitcoinEffect]

@@speaketh Ah, so Wilson was down 7 in the actual frame when Chen fouled on the final black, ending the frame level. Got it. Either way, I wasn’t aware of the ‘points scored on final black’ rule, so thank you.

[@RS-il5zw]

seriously - it's one of the first rules you learn - if the black is the last ball, first foul on the black ends the game.

[@velociraptorwolf447]

I didn't know about that rule, not shocking at all, in fact it makes sense.

[@Cookieman524]

Why does it make sense? I would have thought that if the opponent makes a mistake like that by potting the white that the cost is in favour of you and so it carries on as normal. However, it seems the opponent benefits because when the black is respotted no longer is in a good position to be potted. What are your thoughts on that?

[@gazclarke3618]

​@@Cookieman524 The rule basically says you can only score once off of the final Black, if the score was even before the foul then Kyren would have won there and then, that is enough of a cost in favour of the other player in my opinion. I imagine the rule exists to stop situations where a player is intentionally avoiding potting the final ball simply hoping that their opponent makes more mistakes.

[@Lordchaos991]

Respot usually occurs when the table is empty and the score is even, so I don’t find much sense in it either.

[@jonting7847]

Seems odd at first, but maybe since no more ‘snookers’ are possible so end of frame. I suppose it also stops a winning player tormenting his opponent by refusing to pot the final ball...

[@johndean6355]

Can you have a miss on a final black ? Or Would that cou:nt as the maximum 7 points allowed on final black? Say a player was angled scenario and angled player was 2 behind on final black ball probably never happened before but its the 7 point thing I suppose on final black whatever

[@paulimacschannel6725]

You ruined the video with the advertising at the last didn't even see the last shot how stupid is that I won't be subscribing

[@johnb7071]

Regardless, it's a ridiculous rule. Why should a player be punished for the other players foul? Why should the fouling player be rewarded for fouling? Mad...

[@d95mback]

What is the reward?

[@johnb7071]

@@d95mback for a player not to be penalised for fouling when they factually foul. More than a slight reward for the opposing player.

[@d95mback]

@@johnb7071 but they are penalized. In this case the opponent got 7 points.

[@Woody991]

Not ridiculous at all.

[@ashvlogs9820]

Today I have pass this shot and i am just shocked to hear this rule.....

[@ianblack7006]

Ronnie O’Sullivan said it’s all about the cue action

[@drobson8004]

That has less than nothing to do with the subject matter at hand but.... uh, ok then. Thanks for coming out 🤔🤔🤔

[@Leo31291]

@@drobson8004 woooooossshhhhhh

[@sbaxter4207]

He only said that a few times though.

[@shanilmisra]

@@drobson8004 that's the whole point :)

[@146-]

Cue action! Always the cue action, he won a world championship way out a good one🚀🚀. ROS.

[@bannjaxx]

When the black is the only object ball left on the table, then you can only score off it once, whether that's by potting it or fouling. The fact that the scores were tied after that foul meant its a straightforward respotted black tiebreaker with a coin flip to decide who goes first. I'm surprised it was queried, the amount these guys play it has to happen fairly regularly.

[@TheBaconWizard]

Wilson: "I dunno, I've never seen it before"

[@castleanthrax1833]

I was surprised that as soon as she said "yes" to his direct question, he didn't just go, "OK."

[@Swisswavey]

How can a professional snooker player not know that? I'm shocked and stunned. I think I knew that when I was 10 barely having played the game

[@nickjeffery536]

It should be obvious, for the same reason that if a player potted the pink to leave themselves 8 points clear, and then (for some reason) played the shot on the black but missed or went in-off, they would still have won the frame. Once the black is the last ball left, and it is potted or a foul happen, that ends the frame there and then. And if the frame ends with scores level, then it's a respot...

[@Woody991]

Yep. That's why they don't have to play the black and can end the frame.

[@ewanmcfadyen]

Anyone who has played Gamedesire snooker knows this rule!

[@tsekala7774]

How i find this mate??

[@austinpriest9830]

@@tsekala7774 google gamedesire snooker

[@tsekala7774]

@@austinpriest9830 thanks!!

[@phil-zz5hk]

one of the biggest rules most amateurs don't know is the snooker behind a free ball rule . if you have a free ball you cannot use this ball to lay a snooker . (but you can ). when there is only the pink and black on the table .

[@Woody991]

Makes sense but I'm not sure I knew that. Good one.

[@PatrickRyan147]

I think Kyren thought, like I and most people would think, that the black isn't respotted, that it should have stayed over the pocket as per normal rules of play.. But apparently this situation is an exception. When the final black is either potted OR fouled, as in this case, then that's the end of the frame and since it ended in a tie, a respotted black was required to decide the frame. More power to the referee for knowing this rule. Most players wouldn't know this I'd wager, apart from Dominic Dale apparently 🙂

[@finnkdy]

Bullshittery paddy. I've known it since I was 10 1/2 as would most anyone that's picked up a snooker cue. Armchair players apart. 😁

[@PatrickRyan147]

Hand in air Arty my man🖐️ You have me there. I did not know that rule. I'm like Kyren. But to say that half of all snooker players would know that rule is a bold statement indeed.. and I can only disprove you by conducting a survey at my local snooker club. I'll get back to you anon with the results🙏

[@finnkdy]

@@PatrickRyan147 played fer 10 shillings when it was worth sweating over,and none of them fellas woulda let ye near that black hanging over the pocket after yid went in-off ,and you 7 pts in front. Re spot the lot. Slan.

[@cityzens634]

@@finnkdy You know it so everyone should know it ignorant thinking by you.

[@johnward374]

My dog has a fascination for snooker, I said bark twice if you knew that rule and he did. So Art Hughes and my dog are right.

[@danthemanwhocancan]

Kyren straight off to Google..... 🧐

[@robhughes4422]

Everyone knows this rule.......seriously??!!

[@rickewilde]

Everyone apart from kyren apparently lol

[@robhughes4422]

@@rickewilde 🤣🤣

[@146-]

Ye ye, sure😂😂

[@146-]

I didn't no it. Yer kiddin yerself. Never seen it happen in 20 years!

[@YouKevo]

Never knew about this rule myself. But you learn something new every day. 👍

[@MrSJT]

He argued the rule then says he's never seen that before, well if he's never seen that before that only means he's never seen someone foul on the final black and resulted in a draw. Foul or pot on final black always ends the game unless it resulted in a draw. Any draw results in a respotted black. Isn't that common knowledge in snooker🤔

[@tboyy1234]

I don't think he argued it. He questioned it then got on with it.

[@MrSJT]

@@tboyy1234 yeah wrong choice of words, he questioned

[@freezeraygaming]

im confused as to why so many people fail to understand WHY Kyren was confused. yes, any match ending in a draw is going to be a respotted black to decide it. However, in this instance, the final ball on the table wasnt potted. therefore, since the cueball fouled, kyren thought he would have ball in hand at the balk area, with an attempt to pot the black for the win, given that his opponent's foul had just tied the match. think of it this way. if we're tied, 45-45 with just the black remaining, and i foul the cueball, you would now be leading 52-45, effectively winning the frame, unless i somehow got back to the table and potted the black. Kyren didn't know that if the foul causes the game to be tied, it results in a respotted black. obviously he knows what a respotted black is, he just didnt realize it would happen in this instance.

[@tommyt564]

Stupid rule

[@marcmuller943]

In german eurosport, they always said, that you can get points only once if only the black ball is on the table. It means if any of the player get points the frame is over. In this case is it tie and so it respottet black.

[@FleetAdmiral833]

Exactly! Very simple rule

[@1066gaz]

Never seen this happen in over 40 years of watching and playing snooker. I would have thought the white should have been put back in the semi circle for wilson to play after the white went in the middle pocket played from chen. Wilson then had a good chance to pot the black near the pocket to win the game. Why should there be a re spotted black when there is a ball left on the table. Ends up chen playing again after he went in off & fouled how can that be right. Chen benefits the most. Stupid rule needs changing.

[@MrJacobThrall]

I did know this, but I hadn't realised I shouldn't! I've almost never played snooker. The one time some friends took me to a snooker hall, years ago, this happened, and one of the guys - a regular player - just casually told me the rule. I knew he played all the time, and he told me with no fanfare at all, so I didn't really consider that it might be some obscure, little-known thing.

[@sharoonjames7106]

New learning for me as well

[@dmw13]

Yes, you can only score once on the black.

[@christopherlogan9315]

It staggers me how clueless some of the top players are knowing the rules of the sport they play for a living.

[@christopherlogan9315]

Go for it!

[@iZeerox]

they haven't read the book well :D

[@christopherlogan9315]

I think with a lot of them, it's just sheer laziness. Most can't be bothered to get out of bed to play a 10am match, never mind actually read a book in their spare time.

[@Darts-kh2rs]

Very true but tbh it’s a occasion doesn’t come up often I’ve played thousands of frames and watches hundreds if not thousands and I’ve never seen it in my time

[@vinnydurham8964]

It's an obscure rule. That rarely happens

[@markheitz7963]

Hardly shocking

[@markchester7584]

Not a shocking rule. It’s just the rule whether anyone knew about it or not.

[@Alistair-e2o]

Tbf it is a very rare situation.

[@scottw.3258]

I remember in the 80's i had a 6ft table and this happened while i was playing my Dad. I thought it was a well known rule to be honest.

[@garwoc216]

One score only on the black.

[@markkinrade2739]

unprofessional from Wilson. Challenging the referee. He should know the rules

[@johnseabrook1703]

It was a polite enquiry, we can’t all be perfect, like you.

[@markkinrade2739]

@@johnseabrook1703 keep your nose out my posts u knob head. If u don't know the rules u shouldn't be playing the game

[@nakkadu]

@@markkinrade2739 so you think Wilson should be banned because he didn't know this rule? Lol you're a balloon.

[@dislecsyk991]

Actually agree that it's unprofessional because he should know the rules, but there's nothing unprofessional about challenging the referee. It's all about the way you do it, and he was polite enough.

[@markkinrade2739]

@@dislecsyk991 Ronnie would of hit the roof but then again he would of knew the rules. How can you big one of the best players about and not know the rules

[@3Immotommi3]

To be clear, the rule is that any foul on the final black ALWAYS ends the frame. The victor is then awarded or a re-spot is played if required as it was here

[@nakkadu]

This is a stupid rule, the foul gave the offending player an advantage...if the black stays where it is it's an easy pot.

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

@@nakkadu It's a fine rule.

[@Alexoferith]

The way I was taught and understood, you can only score once with the black if it is the last colour ball on the table. So, in this instance, the white went in off. The score is levelled. Respot.

[@choppy249]

Yes I understand that you can only score once with the black if it is the last ball on the table but in that situation you only have the white and black on the table and if the white misses or goes in off then points are scored , so if tied the black is re spotted , BUT then you are only allowed to score points off the black once more again before the frame is over . So my point is that firstly you are actually allowed to score points off the black TWICE when it is the last colour on the table before someone wins the frame and so secondly , this being the case , Why is there a need to have a re spot if the black can still be potted on the table , Why ? You are going to have points scored off it TWICE anyhow before the frame is decided ( if it’s tied after the first foul ) so why on earth go to the trouble of re spotting the black if it is still in play ? It seems much fairer to me to let the player who didn’t commit the foul have the next shot , as in the entire frame up to this point ,rather than toss a coin to decides who goes next . Surely it cannot be fair for a player to have his opponent commit a foul on the black who then wins the toss and takes the next shot doubling the black up the table into the pocket and win the frame . I have seen this happen in the past and even the commentator said , That seems a bit unfair but it is the rules. If this happens , and it does sometimes , then the player who fouls the black on his last shot is actually given an unfair advantage . He is allowed to have a chance of doubling the black and winning after he has just committed a foul on it . That is not right . It would be much fairer to just let the frame continue as normal with alternate shots , especially as I said that points are going to be scored twice off the black anyway in this situation .

[@Alexoferith]

@@choppy249 Hi, thank you for the response. But I think you are wrong. You are over-interpreting the rule. The point is that one can only score once with the black when it is the last available potable ball on the table. In this video here, the argument or rather the query made by the player was that shouldn't the black stay where it was, and the next player place the cue ball anywhere in the D to shoot at the black ball? But the rule is that player can only score with the black ball once if it is the last portable ball on the table. So the frame will end there and then. But because the score was levelled due to the in-off, the black will have to be re-spotted. Simple as there. Whether fairness comes into play or not has nothing to do with it.

[@choppy249]

@@Alexoferith Hi , I’ve read what you said but I think we will have to agree to disagree . My point I am making is exactly the same as the player was thinking . Why end the frame when the scores are tied if the Black is still on the table to be potted , just because a foul was committed on it before ? I know it is the rule and I would accept it of course if playing in that situation . But I still say it is an unfair rule , and whether it is a fair or unfair rule is important because rules are frequently changed and adapted in sport , including snooker ( IF ) they are deemed to be unfair . It is only the re spotted Black that I think is unfair in this situation because I honestly just cannot see the point . The frame isn’t ended when the scores are tied and the Black is re spotted . It is the same frame because whoever pots the Re spotted Black or scores off it first wins that frame . So why re spot it and say it is because only one score is allowed off it , and yet then allow the players to score off it again before somebody wins . Can’t you see my point ? In this situation players ARE going to score off the final Black twice to decide the frame . So why the need to stop normal play and have a re spotted Black ? It is like you are saying to the players , Right , you have scored off the Black once , so we are going to stop play , re spot it and then let you score off it once again . What is the point of that ? Surely it is better to let the frame flow without the stoppage and let them score off the Black twice if necessary , because that is going to happen anyway . Also what about the point I made in a previous comment . Let’s just say for arguments sake that you are playing in a very important match and it is the deciding frame . Your opponent is a good few points ahead of you but you are now at the table with just the colours left . You pot the yellow , green , brown , blue and pink and now are only 7 points behind . You need to pot the black to tie the scores and then quite fairly there will be a re spotted Black to decide the frame . But you are out of position on the black and it is a difficult safety shot too , so you decide to be bold and lay a trap for your opponent . So you skilfully manoeuvre the Black where it is just possible to pot it but there is a danger of the in off because of where you have left the cue ball . Your opponent after some thought decides to go for it but he just misses the black and leaves it over the pocket and the cue ball goes in off , giving you 7 points and tying the frame score . He has fallen directly into your well laid trap . He has committed a Foul shot . But then with the very next shot ( before you can do anything about it ) he doubles the Black up the table and wins the frame and match . Under the present rule he can do this , He just has to win the toss of a coin . How would you feel if this happened to you ? He has FOULED the Black ball but then is allowed to pot it and win the frame with the very next shot . He hasn’t really been penalised for committing a foul has he because he is immediately allowed to pot the ball and there is nothing you can do about it . Hardly fair I would say . And I did see this happen once in a tournament and the look of disbelief and disgust on the unfortunate players face was unforgettable . He was still shaking his head in disbelief ten minutes later during the interview . He accepted it of course , just as I would but he and the two ex players and interviewer talking to him all said that the rule needed changing as it was unfair in these circumstances .

[@ZubinMehtaa]

@@choppy249 sorry that you wrote so much, and I understand your point and Kyren's query. But you are not getting the point why this rule is in place. First, because of the other player's mistake, the black ball went too close to the pocket when he fouled, and this would imply that a 7 foul costed the player 14 points, which is not how snooker works. 7 points to tie the score, and another 7 points to leave at the table for Kyren to finish off. This is not just unfair for the other player, but it would also question the fairplay aspect of a professional sport. Second, the maximum points a player can score is an odd number 147. So, no matter what, if the scores are tied between two players, the black ball is respotted to settle the score - a black ball frame. The foul has been accounted for, already. So move on and accept the rule. It's justified.

[@ZubinMehtaa]

@@choppy249 and honestly, the talk about laying a trap and all is total BS. It is not possible to happen with pro players. Maybe 1 in gazillion shots, but good luck living that long to witness it. The scenario you laid out here is unrealistic, you're just overanalysing imaginary situations.

[@inyourgenes]

Wow - never knew that!!!

[@Sileesosij]

I've been playing snooker for forty years and never knew this.... I thought once he went in off it was the end and they got half a frame each....

[@Cat10980]

Nothing shocking about it. If the score is tied at the end of the frame the black gets respotted. If you foul on the black, the frame ends. So in this case the 7 points for the foul tied the frame, which ends due to the foul on the black. Black back on its spot.

[@baywanderer4199]

Should have gone to VAR in my opinion.

[@sanbroscoproductions4315]

quite unfair coz its wilson turn in any way. chen played a bad game by a foul not wilson. black boll is in continuation of the game. scores level coz of chen game not wilson. wilson should play the game even if it is level. the game should start from D and the boll should remain at the position. both the players are earning their points by their game not by luck. and toss is not acceptable as the last foul done by chen. not able to digest this rule. as it has no sense.

[@frankiejh7510]

It’s not shocking - it’s the rule.

[@shaun432]

You can only score once on the last black. 7 points... pot it or foul it. The game is over in that moment. You can only gain 7 points on the last black... lol. Not 14 points or 21 points, etc.

[@VladCodY]

This is the most intense moment in the history of this sport.

[@clivethereddevil3178]

Not really a shocking rule. It is more shocking that a professional player does not know the rule. It was the same when John Higgins did not know it is a foul to play a snooker behind a free ball.