Snow Gum - Webasto Heater - Garcia Exploration 45

Thank you very much. 👏👏👏👍🙋‍♂️

[@nielshofkes2831]

Most Webasto heaters, at least on smaller boats, just heat air which is then blown through the various outlets. But in your case, the Webasto actually heats water which is pumped around the boat ? And then there is apparently a fan near the hot water pipe which blows the air around the pipe through the outlets, is that how it works? Another question: when you closed the door of the tech room, the sound of the Webasto was clearly less but still audible. However, the door to aft toilet was still open. Presumably, normally you would close that door too. Does that make a difference, i.e. is the sound further reduced by closing also the toilet door or is in fact the background noise transferred through the hull and not really affected by opening or closing the toilet door?

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Niels. Yes, some Webastos heat air and pump it around. On larger boats that are designed for cold conditions this can be ineffective. The better performing solution is to heat fluid, pump that to distribution units where air is blown through radiators and then through short ducts to the outlets. This is the system we have. It is very effective. You are right about the door to the aft heads compartment; we could have closed that too and the Webasto heater unit noise would have been reduced even more. We’ve not noticed the noise being transmitted through the hull. When we use the system we tend to leave all of the doors open, for even heat distribution. The noise of the heater is not a problem to us. Regards, Rick.

[@dropthatfone]

Hi Carolyn & Rick, Great video! You mentioned there are 3 areas of the boat that have their own fan control. Does each have a thermostat? Can you set one or more thermostats to a specific temperature, or is it more of a high/med/low setting? When a zone reaches the desired temperature, does the fluid from the Webasto stop circulating there, or are the fans then turned off, or lowered in speed? Also, do you get any condensation under the floorboards along the route of the hydronic piping? Thanks!

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Nick. Yes, each of the three zones has its own thermostat. Each is controlled by a panel the same as the one we showed in the video (which is the one for the central zone). The thermostat control is continuous, but there is no temperature display in a numerical sense. It’s just a case of dialling up or down until you get what you like. The fan control has Off, Auto and then five, manual fan speeds. We’ve only ever used them on Auto or the lowest of the five manual speeds. It’s a freakingly powerful heater if you want it to be! Re your question about a zone reaching the desired temperature, I’m going to postulate that the heated fluid continues to circulate through the radiator for that zone. It seems overly complicated to have some kind of solenoid that shuts of a side loop of flow into each radiator, but I’ve not investigated this in detail. From what I’ve seen, I believe there is just a single loop going to the three sector radiator/fan distributors, with a side loop going to our hot water boiler. This side loop can be closed off if desired, using stop-cocks at the boiler. If on Auto, the fans in a sector go slower or faster according to the deviation between the set thermostat position and the temperature detected by the respective sensor. We tested this early on with the aft sector distributor, by blowing warm air from a hair dryer towards the thermostat next to the aft sector control unit, which is in the aft cabin. The fan speed dropped and then stopped for the three aft sector outlets. So, don’t sleep in the tech room if you like it cold when there’s a dude in the aft cabin who likes it really hot. 😄 Re your question about condensation, … hmmm, I’m curious as to why this has come up? Condensation is a devilishly tricky subject, though it really should be simple. Let’s think about it. Condensation arises when heat is extracted from a parcel of moisture laden air. If the air temperature drops enough to reach the point where the energy level of vibrating, gaseous water molecules is insufficient to keep them in the gaseous state, they will convert to the liquid state. This can happen within a thin layer of air adjacent to a surface, which is what we see when the milk bottle is taken out of the fridge. What happens if we do the opposite and pump hot water through a pipe that is in a cold bilge? Surely, it doesn’t cause condensation. But other things are happening, which can be confusing. The ability of a parcel of air to hold water in the gaseous state increases with increased temperature. If we keep a heater on for a long period there could be a high level of water in the air that we as humans cannot easily sense. Then turn the heater off. The temperature of the parcel of air drops and if the edges of the parcel are the aluminium hull plates of a boat in cold water, heat energy from the air will rapidly be conducted into the water outside. The temperature of the air adjacent to the plates, runners, stringers, the bowthruster tube, etc, will rapidly drop to the point where our friendly water molecules floating around in it are forced to change costume and become liquid. People see this and think, ‘This heater causes condensation!’ No, it’s the loss of heat energy and the humidity that’s causing condensation, not the presence of heat energy. Stop the supply of heat that is keeping condensation at bay and condensation will arrive. Blame the person who turned the heating off without simultaneously reducing humidity (or dramatically increasing ventilation, which is whole other story and won’t necessarily work). Summary - people should only live in boats that are in cold places if they are well insulated above the waterline and have both good heating and dehumidifying systems. 🙂

[@dropthatfone]

@@SailingSnowGum Wow. Thorough answer! Much appreciated.

[@digitalvote]

Getting the feeling based on your previous videos and others, condensation is a big issue with Garcia. Thermal bridging?

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Digital vote. Condensation is an issue with all boats spending winter in Cherbourg with humans on board, who are breathing, cooking, showering and drying clothes and bed linen. You’re right about the special characteristics of aluminium; it’s a great conductor of heat. So aluminium boats need to be very well insulated. Bare aluminium works something like a water maker if the humidity is high and temperatures hover just above zero C. That’s Cherbourg in winter for ya! Our boat was very well insulated as part of the design and build. During commissioning we zipped up any air gaps between foam panels with Sika or expanding foam, to make it even better. Apart from thermal performance, it’s quiet too. To conclude, a dessicant style dehumidifier is just a great thing to have on any boat in winter in Europe. Let me know if you need further information. Regards, Rick.

[@dave-d9022]

Hi Rick, Can you use the shelf in the tech room as a spare bunk?

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Dave. A child could sleep up there. Let me look at the measurements we made of those shelves, for when we were shopping for storage boxes. Hang on. OK, I've found a picture showing 154cm along the inside of the tie down rail. So that's the length. But I have a second pic showing 145cm for that same dimension, which must account for the non-rectangular shape of the shelf, in terms of buying rectangular boxes. So the mattress for the shelf will not be rectangular. The widths are 62cm at the aft end of the shelf and 58cm at the fore end of the shelf. Plenty of room for a child. You'll need a good lee cloth or net! Garcia can provide a pipe berth to go up above that shelf. It's good for storage, of kids or vegetables or other stuff. I've seen pics by another owner of children sleeping on the shelves under the dodger on either side of the companionway! Kids are good at sleeping in small spaces. 🙂 Of course, there is a configuration of this boat with a full size cabin in the starboard aft location. In this case the aft heads compartment is smaller, without the separated shower. Jimmy Cornell's boat, number 1 in the series, had this cabin setup. Regards, Rick.

[@dave-d9022]

@@SailingSnowGum Hi Rick, thanks for your quick reply, yes I thought it would be short for a full bunk, but I guess I was just hoping for the best of both worlds, full tech room and spare bunk! 😅. I’m seriously looking at the 45 but the lead time now is about 3 years! Anyway, I’m off now to look for a tape measure to check my son when he comes home from school. Thanks again..Dave

[@captainmike808]

I was just thinking about air. We will be cruising mostly tropical areas and was curious if both the heating and air conditioning can be installed.

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Mike. You made me laugh there. ‘Yes, the boat comes with air and if you need more, just open the hatches.’ Ha. But you mean air-conditioning of course. Silly me. Yes, both heating and air-conditioning can be had. We didn’t choose ‘air’ because we’ve always wanted to steer clear of the hot, humid parts of the world. It’s a great choice for folk who will spend time in those places. I’m not the expert, but a system that moves condensate to the outside of the boat has to be a good thing. A system that can both warm and dry air would be great for winters.

[@captainmike808]

@@SailingSnowGum perfect thank you ☺️

[@pairugo]

Good to see you warm and toasty! No heater vent in the aft head/bathroom?

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Paulo. We hope you’re well. Please have a look @5:36. 😄 Regards from Carolyn.

[@pairugo]

@@SailingSnowGum thanks, missed that one. Good to dry foulies.

[@SailingSnowGum]

@@pairugo Yes, exactly. The aft heads and the shower is a great place to hang wet sailing clobber. The heater outlet in there is ideal, but our new dehumidifier is the ant’s pants when it comes to drying things. It really works like magic. 🙂 Regards, Rick.

[@pauliuslukosius5027]

Great video! How much fuel does it consumes a day on min/med/high settings? Would min settings be enough for lets say -10 C?

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Paulius. I’ll try to answer your questions in the best way I can. As I mentioned in the video, we don’t use the heater all that much, for the reasons that the boat is so well insulated and we have not sailed in the really cold conditions that we planned for. What I can tell you is that the heater’s instruction manual advises that the minimum fuel usage rate is approximately 0.2 litres per hour. This can only be after the heater has warmed a very well insulated boat to a steady state and at the minimum setting of the thermostat, in ambient conditions that aren’t very cold. On top of that I can say that on the occasions we have run the heater for several hours a day for a few days in a row, we’ve not noticed any drop in the level of diesel in the tanks, according to the tank level sensors. But the heater was using fuel - we can all be sure of that! It uses more when it starts up and is working hard to warm the boat up and then it uses less to keep the boat at the temperature you want. It’s possible to actually hear and measure the relative amount of fuel the heater is demanding from the fuel pump. The small Webasto fuel pump is under the floor of the galley and the quiet ticking noise it makes speeds up or slows down according to how hard it is working to keep up the pressure in the fuel line. It ticks quickly when the heater is started and then ticks much, much slower when the whole boat is warm and the heater is just idling to maintain the temperature. I started a project of measuring the rate of the ticking noise, to compare fuel burn rates, but we simply haven’t used the heater enough for me to gather enough data to make any useful calculations and conclusions. Perhaps you can finish this project? As for your question about the minimum setting of the thermostat being enough for -10C, well, the simple answer is Yes. But there’s more to it. We’ve found that the minimum setting on the three thermostats equates to a comfortable temperature of about 20 degrees C. If the outside air temperature is 5C and the water temperature is 10C, then the heater will not have to work very hard to maintain 20C inside the boat, given the very good insulation we have above the waterline and no insulation below the waterline. The sea is your friend when it comes to maintaining a steady boat temperature, as it doesn’t change like the air temperature. The sea doesn’t get as hot as the air can get and it doesn’t get as cold as the air get. Linking your boat to the sea temperature by having no insulation below the waterline and a hull that conducts heat well is a good idea. So now to your question. If the boat is in an air temperature of -10C and a water temperature of, say, 2C, the thermostat on minimum will still be working to keep the inside temperature at about 20C. However, the heater unit will have to work harder than it needs to in a less cold place, due to the difference in rates of heat loss from the boat. Beyond this, because we as humans are highly sensitive to temperature changes, even though the thermostats and heater will most likely succeed in delivering an inside temperature of 20C at the minimum setting, we will be able to feel the higher rate of heat loss from the boat. Humans will turn the thermostat up slightly to compensate for this. Or put on a warm jacket and an Icebreaker hat, like I’m wearing right now. 🙂

[@garyhawkesford2253]

Why are you using a dehumidifier???

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi Gary. Two people living in a boat in winter in Europe is why. 🙂 The ambient humidity is already high, then add moisture from showers, cooking, drying clothes, etc. A dehumidifier was suggested by other live-aboard sailors and it’s the best addition we made to the boat. Example: we’d noticed that the salt in our salt shaker was always clumpy. Then, a few days AD (after dehumidifier) I needed some salt for an egg on toast. The shaker had been deep inside a cupboard, in a bag, to try to keep it working. Without doing anything to assist, the new dehumidifier dried out the salt, such that it worked perfectly. I’d been wondering if the dehumidifier was really working, but that settled the matter. If you are a sailor, get a dehumidifier and spend money on a good one. You won’t look back. Regards, Rick.

[@jameshopkins365]

My mother always added some grains of rice to the salt shaker. Great boat thanks for the video.

[@SailingSnowGum]

Hi James. Are you tellin’ me we coulda saved the few hundred Euros we spent on the Meaco Zambezi by buying some rice instead? Sheesh! I’ve heard of people fixing drowned phones with rice. Worth a try. 🙂

[@brettharrison2237]

I know you’ve sold Snow Gum, but instead of buying a portable dehumidifier, do Garcia offer fitted dehumidifier’s?

[@SailingSnowGum]

@@brettharrison2237 Hi Brett. No, I don't think Garcia offer an installed dehumidifier. However, they do offer air-conditioning, which could provide a form of dehumidification that would be effective if the condensate is dumped overboard. Best to check with them on this. Regards, Rick.

[@SADIK19631963]

🧿👍

[@jeffwalters6187]

???????

[@SailingSnowGum]

Be careful there Jeff. You don’t want to use up all of your question marks in one go! 😄 Finger trouble???