Snow Storm vs Tesla FSD Beta (Quebec, CANADA - City/Country)

[@alexl.183]

My god the chad like level of balls here. My guy is just chilling, drinking his coffee in an open face cup talking about how there is very little traction and then re-engages beta like it's nbd

[@MatGagnon]

Hehe, I don't know exactly how to take this but I'll interpret it as having high confidence on my damage control skillset while driving ;)

[@alexl.183]

@@MatGagnon 100% correct!

[@AwkwardYet]

Great, always wondered how it would handle in the snow like this. Went about how i expected

[@darkdragon88]

I liked the commentary and footage. Snow is definitely going to take a lot of work for FSD (or any other autonomous driving programs), and I hope all this data is being fed back to Tesla well. Here in Vancouver we never prepare for the snow and our conditions would be very similar to yours. I personally drive very cautiously in the snow and there will always be drivers that are impatient and drive poorly and can scare others, so the level of safety I can somewhat understand. It would be real amazing to see the visualizations improve in the future, and you now have the starting footage for that!

[@MatGagnon]

Looking forward to future visualizations too! I imagine perfecting winter driving is low on Tesla's priority list but it will surely get better naturally through some of their other innovation. I'll be here to document the evolution.

[@BillBadMule123]

Good Video Thank You for posting ,First time I have ever seen a Tesla in cold snowy weather .

[@NetMelc]

Intéressant merci pour la vidéo, c'est la première fois que je vois un exemple de FSD au Québec, on dirait en effet que le problème de traction est majeur, mais c'est le genre de chose qui je pense peut se corriger relativement facilement avec le temps. Je pensais honnêtement que ce serait pire que ça!

[@MatGagnon]

Je pensais que ca allais être pire aussi, ce que je pense sera difficile est de comprendre les surfaces glissantes a haute vitesse en virage.

[@alexsouthpb55]

Loved this chill (pardon the pun) look, drinking coffee along with you, at winter driving with FSD. What sort of battery degradation/km performance are you seeing with the colder winter temperatures?

[@MatGagnon]

Driving is probably my longest lived passion and experiencing a semi-sentient robot attempt to drive is even more exciting. We've had this update (10.69.3.1) for a while now, so I feel like I know its faults and maybe that's where the chill stems from. Our Model 3 is a May 2019 build with 386km rated original range and it doesn't have the heat pump therefore the PTC heater can eat away over 30%+ in the winter. I also removed the aero caps and have aggressive summer and winter tires. My rule of thumb if I want to keep the battery between 90-10% on a long highway drive is: - 300km summer (ex: 20degC +) with low wind - 200km winter storm (ex: below -20degC) with high winds Some family members have a Model Y and it's only getting more like 10-15% loss of range in the winter.

[@josephseverino674]

👍 for the coffee drinking while driving,LOL that would be me,i am buying a tesla it look like my kind of car.

[@MatGagnon]

Kind of hard to beat a robot that tries to drive itself and keeps getting better.

[@MrAdorabao]

this is awesome! needs more improvements but wont ever be as good as humans. I'm from Minnesota, I don't own a Tesla but always wondered how FSD would work in snow-covered roads.

[@TeslaColdEnvy]

Great video! Keep it up!

[@frozenbacon]

I love how you are casually drinking your coffee while recording this, haha.

[@MatGagnon]

Some don't seem to agree ;) but I'm going to chill on the open coffee in future videos. I have 110,000kms on my car and I think 95% of that driving has been on Autopilot/FSD + I've slipped/slid my car every which way. When you push FSD to its limits almost everyday it starts to become ultra predictable.

[@noseboop4354]

I feel that's extremely irresponsible of him. Driver should have their hands ready to take over the wheel at any moment, it's called beta for a reason.

[@paulfun8720]

@@MatGagnon What percentage of the way to no steering wheel no brake pedal would you say it is at? And ya the coffee cup made me laugh...surely you must have spilt some on the front of your jacket. If not your brain knows that car so well you got gimbal hands of precision.

[@MatGagnon]

@@paulfun8720 Unfortunately I'm not working in Tesla's AP team therefore my guess is as good as yours. It's definitely getting a little better every update, sometimes it gets a lot better. One month it can make the same mistake 100% of the time at the same location, and a month later it's perfect. My coffee-spilling days are over HAHA, that was in June 2019 when Autopilot was way more intense than it is now; I don't know how many people realize that AP used to have drunken confidence and brake check you every opportunity it had. After about 100,000 kms of Autopilot under my belt, FSD Beta now feels like it's on "super extra cautious safety mode".

[@thomasjacques5286]

I hate the FORCED wipers even with little to no water etc on the glass. I use Aquapel and seldom use my wipers when driving, but the second I engage AP the dam wipers come on. So I have to choose between some driver assist or being annoyed by wipers dragging on a dry windshield.

[@bjbrunetti]

Keep in mind this is rear wheel drive

[@MatGagnon]

Yes, AWD would have better traction although if it does slip I still think FSD Beta will deactivate. The main problem seems to be speed control when turning on slippery surfaces.

[@leobourbonnais]

C'est impressionnant! Reste à gérer quand ça glisse. Je suis plutôt pour le fait que le véhicule ralentisse quand un véhicule approche dans l'autre direction (au début surtout, par contre c'était trop de freinage sur le chemin de la rivère nord). Il peut toujours y avoir des plaques de glace cachées qui pourraient faire dévier à la dernière seconde.

[@MatGagnon]

Je suis d'accord mais c'était trop agressif parfois et l'auto doit apprendre a se rapprocher au banc de neige.

[@martincossette7420]

FSD Beta a souvent tendance à arrêter lorsqu'il croit qu'il n'y a pas suffisamment d'espace disponible (sur la droite) pour croiser un véhicule qui arrive en sens inverse. J'ai vu le même comportement sur les "unmarked roads" de Chuck Cook où l'accotement est en gazon. Ici, c'est probablement le banc de neige qui cause se problème.

[@TheKaves2]

Add black ice, some covered cameras on side and back, run out of windshield washer, and blowing snow and you realize this is very very far from robotaxi for Canada. I think SpaceX might land on Mars before robotaxi is a thing. Funny part about this is both should had been done by now according to a few years ago Elon. Lol. I know some of it is purely inspirational but the FSD was sold for 10k$ to people starting how many years ago? I know Woz is not happy about it and I think he has a valid point, regardless what fine prints say.

[@lemmykoopah]

Great vid.

[@baconking314]

oh wow i didnt even notice that you arent that popular i just thought that you were a normal tesla channal

[@isurumw6119]

Ikr. Really good video.

[@MatGagnon]

Haha! Yup not famous but I love talking about FSD ;)

[@a_pal9461]

nice vid!

[@MindzEnt]

Full Self Drive doesn't mean it's full self drive, according to Tesla lawyers in California.

[@MatGagnon]

This is made quite clear through the various audible and visual warnings the car provide.

[@e3chicago]

It looks like the FDS is not drawing the roads purely from its vision, and it probably uses the combination of GPS, other cars and their trajectory and the map data. That is why it still shows the yellow lines and curbs when they are not visible at all. I would say it would be an interesting experiment if you could completely disconnect from the network or drive on a country road covered entirely with snow. Also driving on snow can be detected not by vision, rather by temperature and slippage from each wheel.

[@MatGagnon]

I believe Elon has confirmed they are using GPS coarse data (ex: intersection, traffic light, stop sign, speed, number of lanes, merge, etc) as an input to the occupancy and lane line networks. I think he said they were also aiming to decouple the FSD stack from GPS since they cannot rely on in while in underground parking lots and tunnels. I've let FSD drive on brand new roads and it can also adapt to construction therefore I assume it must be relying primarily on vision at the moment w/ GPS as an assist. FSD has driven without mobile connection before on some country gravel roads, although the car still has offline navigation data. I also drove the car on roads entirely covered in snow over the weekend and its handling them, I just find it doesn't get close enough to snow banks when oncoming cars pass. It chooses aggressive slowing instead, I hope the higher resolution occupancy network with V11 helps with this.

[@Xanthopteryx]

The map data is in the car so if you have no connection, that does not matter. But otherwise, yes, it uses map data a lot, and other cars (and that will trick it sometimes because it can follow other cars that might do errors and then do the same), and yes, GPS of course, so it knows where it is on the map. It also tries to find the road edges by other objects so on a very white road then it will often show the road edge too far at the sides where trees and stuff are - it thinks "Oh, trees, that must be the edge of the road" even though there might be two meters outside of the road. The funny part is that me as a human have no problem at all 'seeing' the road edges, and this is done on a small monitor on a video stream on a road i have never been to in an area of the world i have never been to. Human brains are AMZING!

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

11:10 it’s not registered as a snow plow according to the Tesla

[@MatGagnon]

hehe, I'm not sure they have that 3D asset yet, think it's worth it?

[@ItsEverythingElse]

FSD will be in beta until about 2050.

[@MatGagnon]

I disagree

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

Full official public release may vary per country and state in the USA and provinces too will have different restrictions

[@Xanthopteryx]

Since they only promised a level 2, ADAS, system it could actually go out of that ludicrous "beta" thing sooner than you expect. It will not be that much better than it is but, well... as promised.

[@constantineblinkov2972]

LOL, FSD all right :)

[@Xanthopteryx]

"Full" in Swedish means "drunk" so it fits pretty nicely. =)

[@Robert...Schrey]

do you think it can detect when it slides ?

[@MatGagnon]

I have to imagine they can since the traction and stability control systems intervene with braking/motor throttling when driving manually. In theory they have an IMU (inertial measurement unit), wheel speed sensors & the vision system should also be able to detect when the car is rotating.

[@martincossette7420]

It could, but it doesn't yet. Eventually, I'm convinced they'll be able to detect slippery conditions and adapt the driving profile... instead of freaking out.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@martincossette7420 Of course they can detect it but they can not handle it.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@MatGagnon Yes, they use ABS sensors in each wheel, steering angle sensor, yaw sensor. If these sensors does not match up, you are on your way of going for a free (probably unwanted) ride and the system kicks in. TO detect wheel slippage when accelerating or braking only the ABS sensors are needed.

[@tatradak]

People expectation is way too high, in ice and snow there is frankly little grip and traction.. It should a a max speed limit if 40mph with very slow speed changes. As for crossing the middle of the road apsolutely NO. Stupid idea, why because the law...

[@georgegalanis2245]

Very well edited video! I like that you are one of the few to conclude that FSD is garbage in these kinds of conditions and to be as direct as you were. In fact, it shouldn't allow itself to be used in such conditions and is really a lawsuit waiting to happen for Tesla. But I digress. Two suggestions for you: First, don't drive basically one handed with a mug of coffee when making these videos. You are supposed to be ready to intervene and the best way is to actually keep at least one hand on the wheel (which you didn't do for large parts of the video) and holding a mug of coffee in the other is asking for trouble. Use a cup with a lid and set it down in the cup holder between sips to free up your second hand for most of the time. Second, don't let it waiver away from the wheel paths into the snow covered parts of the lane and then takeover. Keep it from doing that in the first place. You'll eventually end up in a ditch if you let it keep doing that. Cheers!

[@MatGagnon]

I appreciate the concerns and advice, I will take them into consideration and won't make excuses for actions. Another video w/ coffee is coming but it will be my last open mug one :) Yes FSD is is not great in these conditions, it feels like Tesla has labelled a lot of data w/ snow covered roads although they have not tuned the control/planning aspect for winter. WRT lawsuit, I'm responsible for the outcome of my car at the moment and the system will make mistakes and get into accidents when they enable the Robotaxi, Tesla will need to insure FSD one day. The way I look at it, exposing the car to these hard scenarios is what will save lives in the future, someone has to do it.

[@WaxPaper]

@@MatGagnon Remember that you're also exposing the drivers and pedestrians around you to potentially dangerous situation in the pursuit of future development. You are consenting to this, but would everyone else consent? And this guy is right, you shouldn't have been so flippant with the coffee and stuff.

[@sweiland75]

It's not terribly convincing when you drive roads that are not even snow covered.

[@mavericktruck6648]

I feel to expect a car to ever navigate this as well as a human can in daylight is going to be hard. But if we do this and the weather is bad or its night then the car will do it better than a human can. But why are are driving in such poor weather/conditions? Would you pull a pistol out (loaded) and pass it around while driving? No.

[@Xanthopteryx]

The computer might(!) maybe, some day, in the far future, drive as good as a human in good weather, daylight, dry roads. But to drive as good as a human under these wintery conditions? No. Will not happen for a long long long time. What do you mean "Why are driving in such poor weather"? This is normal winter weather. Nothing strange by that. Nothing extreme.

[@MatGagnon]

Unfortunately this is the type of weather we deal with ~5 months of the year, it's what we're used to.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@MatGagnon Yes, nothing strange and extreme with that. I know the deal - living in Sweden. We have our share of darkness, snow, slush, ice, frozen rain, rain, mist, fog, salt and shit. Sometimes all in the same day =)

[@paulfun8720]

Be even better if you could smoke a cigarette and perhaps send a few text messages during the drive.

[@MatGagnon]

hehe, am I that terrible? Who doesn't take a sip of coffee on their morning drives...

[@Magg78]

I hate that warning sound, it’s the same no matter what. ‘Full panic’ at the slightest thing 🤪

[@MatGagnon]

Not a huge fan either but I'm glad it gets our attention.

[@Magg78]

@@MatGagnon almost heart attack triggering 😳, but it is effective, I agree

[@lumberjack7923]

NEVER MIND YOU ANSWERED THAT IN THE VIDEO

[@lumberjack7923]

DO YOU HAVE SNOW TIRES ??

[@MatGagnon]

Of course, in Quebec it's the law to install snow tires in the winter. Nokian Hakka R3's.

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

The snow tires are possibly effecting the computer,so install them before updating your Tesla and drive on a simple and regular road and then the computer should begin adjusting to the snow tires and next winter you’ll not have issues except for complex and steep routes

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 No, they do not affect it at all. The system is just really shitty at driving in general and especially during wintery conditions.