SnowDog Modifications - Grooming Winter Fat Bike Trails...

Modifications for the SnowDog to make it a great machine for grooming singletrack mountain bike trails.

[@robertclaire2404]

Thank you for this information. I just purchased a snowdog to groom my own winter trails .

[@alexmacdonald258]

that's pretty slick! We could use a machine like this here in the Cascades, so we could increase the access of cross country trails. Here, everybody has snow machines, and they blast all over the place, pretty much eliminating any Nordic skiing in the places where you could actually ski. The rest of our terrain is steep, both up and down. Lends itself to Alpine touring though.

[@justinschetrompf2703]

Looks fun just to play on. Wish we had it for our farm.

[@nybergsgarage]

If you don't have tons of cash to throw around buy a snowmobile from the 70s second hand. They usually go for a reasonably low price 100-500 dollars) and are easy to maintain and ride.

[@spencerm0416]

Hey Glen! Great video! I would also be very interested in a couple picks of the two axis hitch, especially the attachment point and side to side pivot at the sled! Working on a back country "super dog" build to reach some remote lakes! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Keep up the good work! Cheers🍻

[@charleslefebvre5515]

Basically, it's square tubing in a U-shape. He attached 2 plates at the center of his machine. 2 bolts each attached them to the frame. It's here you attach the U-shaped piece with a bolt/stud. This gives you the up and down movement. Next, on the back of the U-shaped piece has 2 pieces of flat bar welded with a hole. They have enough room for a piece of square tubing between. This gives your side to side movement. He's attached square tubing to his sleds and groomers. So when connected to the flat bar on the back of the U-shaped bar it only allows side to side. So no more tipping snowdog in theory.

[@TheKjlongtine]

Snowdog should watch this and work with you to create the "Groomer" package on their next year models!

[@3Bluetick]

Great video especially since I have had guys tell me this type of machine is terrible in soft snow and rough terrain. Like Spencer I need to see a close up of the two axis hitch to understand this system.

[@charleslefebvre5515]

Basically, it's square tubing in a U-shape. He attached 2 plates at the center of his machine. 2 bolts each attached them to the frame. It's here you attach the U-shaped piece with a bolt/stud. This gives you the up and down movement. Next, on the back of the U-shaped piece has 2 pieces of flat bar welded with a hole. They have enough room for a piece of square tubing between. This gives your side to side movement. He's attached square tubing to his sleds and groomers. So when connected to the flat bar on the back of the U-shaped bar it only allows side to side. So no more tipping snowdog in theory.

[@steveklick]

Dude this is a crazy awesome video, everything you've done is what I've imagined so far even with the kick board sled, I totally thought of that very thing in my head already and its so cool to see it. You need to go into business and start selling this stuff as accessories. I just bought a brand new snow dog the other day. Do you have any recommendations for cold starting or any other handy items you bring along to help for starting or for any other issues?

[@edgarallen3841]

Hey Glen, I would like to understand your hitch better.Maybe you could post a close up. I have build a snow dog using a snowmobile track and tunnel. Has tons of traction and I geared it down so that I can creep along and have it pull well. Anyway I like the idea of shifting weight actually assisting with steering. Cheers

[@charleslefebvre5515]

Basically, it's square tubing in a U-shape. He attached 2 plates at the center of his machine. 2 bolts each attached them to the frame. It's here you attach the U-shaped piece with a bolt/stud. This gives you the up and down movement. Next, on the back of the U-shaped piece has 2 pieces of flat bar welded with a hole. They have enough room for a piece of square tubing between. This gives your side to side movement. He's attached square tubing to his sleds and groomers. So when connected to the flat bar on the back of the U-shaped bar it only allows side to side. So no more tipping snowdog in theory.

[@darcetrotter4490]

Do you have good photos that we can build from? I am referring to both the hitch, and handlebars, great mods, I was going to try a moveable weight slung low on the side at the center of the machine to overcome the tipping tendancies. I am using the machine in a lot of tight and sidehill applications here in Utah and may still add that as a backup. You have thought out your changes well and I am starting on my machine today! Thank you so much for sharing this!

[@glennfenlason8479]

Sorry I didn't back to you. I had no idea all these questions were here.

[@darcetrotter4490]

@@glennfenlason8479 I have been able to replicate your hitch with minor changes mostly because like you I just used material I had on hand, and wow what a difference Thank you!

[@paulberryhill2642]

Yes driving this thing from the factory is like wrestling an ox with string on it’s ears. I’m starting the handle change today but would really like a picture of how the hitch to sled connection looks. No good vie in video.

[@darcetrotter4490]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/moacfKaYfJd9rrc

[@beefersonranchWY]

Do these do well in drifting snow?

[@kriskenny8161]

Perhaps there’s a way to attach the single track groomer ( weighted down) behind the cargo sled for deeper snow. 2 birds one stone...clear and groom at same time. Wish someone had one for trails near me.

[@darcetrotter4490]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpm8dZdmZp5jd6M

[@darcetrotter4490]

Also are you using their factory grooming sled? what mods have you made to the cargo sled to help with stability?

[@glennfenlason8479]

Darce I have their sled, and their groomer, as well as a "kicksled" I built. Their sled, I altered the hitch to fit the split axis hitch we build, Otherwise so far it is pretty stock. I will get photos [later] Their groomer, is adjustable in width. For my trails and use. I found the wider too wide, and the narrow a little too narrow. [roughly 27" and 20" ] . I made new side pieces to give me a finish width of around 24". I also altered it's hitch to work with the split axis hitch. The toothed trailing edge I found too aggressive so I bent that back to almost flat. hmm and I also "glued" some pieces of horse stall matt to give me more spots to stand on it. Both hitches are shorter than stock, with the relocation of the handle bar assembly you are able to move much closer to the machine.

[@MrFg1980]

I don't have a machine to modify, but I do want to ride 'yer trails...

[@SuperHurdman]

Where is Glenn located and what is the name of his resort?

[@glennfenlason8479]

Overall I am very happy with the set up, and it works very well grooming my trails. Can it be better, would I do anything differently? The split axis hitch could be an inch to an inch and a half shorter. The closer to the machine the left / right pivot is the easier the machine is to turn. In tighter than 90 degree turns sometimes my groomer [or sled] will hit the back of the U hitch. While it easily turn where I need it, I would like to not have this limitation. I think I would like to try some additional adjustment holes for the handlebar assembly pivot. It does not take much difference front and rear, to greatly affect how it feels. As you move the pivot location forward, the machine becomes much more responsive, but it takes more effort to turn it. For myself, my current sweet spot [in the video] is working the best. I periodically try that one more forward hole, and right away it's a wow! This is even better, but fairly quickly I get fatigued operating it in that location. I would like to hand a row of pivot locations [to try] about the current ones. Higher yet might be better, and I would make the holes half way between the current ones. My adjustable handlebar stops need a lock nut. They do tend to creep down while operating. [thats a very easy fix.] I do wish I had more of my steertube accessible for more fore and aft adjustment on the stem. I may add an adjustable stem to "correct" that. Future work.. I am contemplating a second throttle, one for the left side of the handlebar. Some mountain sleds have them [snowmobiles]. I can turn much tighter to the right than the left, because of the throttle placement It a very tight left hand turn.. it is more of a reach. I plan on new brakes. [Mostly just so they are more service able.] I don't think replacement shoes are available, although that might change. I would like to install a chain tensioner. I would also like to make something else for a cover. I would like more grip from the track. My machine came stock with studs molded into the track, but they are pretty small. The track itself could also be slightly more aggressive. I am contemplating adding something for cleats, but there isn't much room, so creating some space.

[@toddwright3816]

That is a great idea to move the handle bar pivot point forward, i have been struggling with the same issues and looking for a solution. I have been using the Snowdog for several years now, and was the one who first designed the two-axis hitch that you are using..glad to see someone else putting it to use. Our group currently has three 'Dogs, two standards and a compact. The compact was our original machine, and we have had many issues with the small "comet-style" clutch. We are currently using a new design groomer pan as well as a roller for our primary grooming, and have replaced the driven sprocket with a 10% larger one to reduce speed/increase torque. I also have a kick-sled in the works for deep snow conditions. Next in the works is a hydro-static drive conversion for the compact. this will solve the clutch issues and allow us to run the engine in its RPM "sweet-spot" and control speed via the hydro. An added bonus will be reverse! The current plan is to use a Borg-Warner unit from a Wheel Horse tractor.

[@glennfenlason8479]

@@toddwright3816 Thank you Todd. When I first got my machine 3+ years ago I was desperate to get it to handle better [mostly to keep the machine upright]. I was unaware of your hitch at that point. My first mods were the pivot change and the wider bars. The first thing we noticed was how much more responsive the handling was, It turns sooo much better. Thank you so much for the hitch idea.. I have heard of a fair amount of people trying it out. [I did always say the hitch was someone else's idea.. but could not give credit specifically]

[@jodyoho]

@@toddwright3816 Is your hutch available retail?

[@Baseballisbest67]

Glenn, anyway to reach out witj some Basic drawings of these set up including the things you would do different ?

[@Baseballisbest67]

@@toddwright3816 Todd, on the standard dog w/reverse do you have any specs I can follow to make these mods?

[@2brothersoutdoors727]

Where did you get/make that hitch could somebody pay and have one shipped? Im still new to the snowdog ownership thing but that hitch looks amazing.

[@darcetrotter4490]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/moacfKaYfJd9rrc

[@glennfenlason8479]

The hitch a friend and I built, ourselves.

[@ImRokhound21]

Damn good looking group of cyclists, now where have I seen them before??

[@ottermoonfilms5728]

Haha... Yeah, I might need to take a trip back to Harris Hill to get some fresh footage...

[@ImRokhound21]

Let us know we had a blast helping out!!

[@glennfenlason8479]

Another change I made, that is not in the video, is the addition of Snowdog's Slide suspension. It greatly improves handling. I did have a problem with the original slides. The slippery part is just riveted on, and the rivets fail, pretty quickly. On my replacement piece , I drilled and countersunk small bolts to hold it in place.

[@AndyKlevorn]

Great mods Glenn, I built something you might want to try. We have a similar set up with a sled we pull, but there's a seat in ours. So I took a pallet and made a little frame, then took old XC skis and screwed them to the bottom, then put a little comb at the back of that. I leave that in the woods then just ride the sled to the woods from my house, strap the ski contraption to the bottom and then off I go. www.shorelinecyclingclub.org/trail-updates-2-24-20/

[@glennfenlason8479]

@@AndyKlevorn Thank you Andy: That would definitely pull easier than MY sled. I kind of like the looks of that sled vs mine also.

[@hael8680]

So...the original design needs more work to make the machine decent... has the manufacturer picked up on your improvements and feedback?

[@glennfenlason8479]

When the machine was first designed and built, it was never intended as a fatbike trail groomer. I suspect they didn't even know that was a thing. These mods improve it's function for doing that. They have talked to me and others about possible mods, and are supposed to be testing some prototype changes, and yes they have seen this video.

[@xxgg]

Want to see a electric version of snowdog.

[@MuskratOutdoors]

They make 'em.

[@adamheath2835]

What model snow dog do you use? I'm looking to get one to groom singletrack in southern NH. I'm thinking since we dont get much snow and the trails are tight here the compact would be the way to go. What do you think? Thanks

[@ottermoonfilms5728]

We use the full size at Bradbury Mountain State Park and our trails are very twisty... I haven't used a compact though, so I don't know if that would be better. If you buy a full size and do the mods that are in the video, the handlebar moves forward and the overall length becomes the same as the compact. I think you would be happy with either, but I would encourage doing the mods. The machine is a lot more stable with the modified hitch. There is a Snowdog User Group on Facebook and if you posed your question there, you would get some good feedback...

[@glennfenlason8479]

I also use the full sized standard. Snowdog at first recommended the compact for trail grooming.. but the standard for deeper snow cover. My thoughts were if you were grooming trails but had to deal with deeper snow, you would want the standard. The company agreed. Like Scott, I have never used the compact. With these modifications I can groom a pretty tight trail. Grooming at24" in width [the current size of my groomer], I can groomer tighter than what can easily be ridden.

[@Baseballisbest67]

Is this wise ol timer willing to help duplicate or send info ? No need to do from scratch what or reinvent if someone has done it. How does one get in touch with him or the gentleman interviewing him?

[@glennfenlason8479]

Sorry everyone, I was not aware off all these questions. I did just get a notification of one. I will try to answer all your questions, in the next few days.

[@Baseballisbest67]

@@glennfenlason8479 thx u!

[@glennfenlason8479]

@@Baseballisbest67 I don't seem to be able to post any images here. Scott who shot the video isn't here. There is the Snowdog user group on Facebook that is a good general resource. I do have a seperate page on my mods. [just to keep the photos in a more accessible location. facebook.com/groups/2544041872497185

[@jonfyfazan]

👏👍👌🇳🇴 😷

[@09ironman1]

Where can I get a groomer?

[@glennfenlason8479]

We started with Snowdog's stock groomer for our first one. Some build their own.

[@BERZERKERSV4]

that's funny.. grooming single track for fat bikes.... 100 feet at a time because the rider is completely gassed after 50 feet of peddling...

[@steveklick]

Please make replicas of parts to sell. I would buy these for a lot of money.