SNS 316 Part 1: Scraping Cincinnati Shaper Ram Ways, John's Machine Shop

I joined my friends John and Lance to help them scrape the ram ways off his 36" Cincinnati shaper. This project started back in January during the scraping class so be sure to check out that video to see that first stage of scraping. I brought along my newly purchased Biax power scraper to test it out on this job. While there I give a shop tour of Johns personal machine shop.
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[@WAVETUBE84]

Nothing beats a productive day with good people... topped off with good eats! That's as good as it gets.

[@musoangelo]

Adam, it's a small thing but you seem to smile so much more now than you did a few years ago and I think I enjoy the videos more because you seem to be enjoying life more. Just an observation.

[@rodney1818]

For what it's worth I feel the need to compliment you for your compliment there's not a lot of caring people on the internet these days

[@mannys9130]

Oh boy, I remember the very first time I ever heard of scraping and saw it done. I was stunned. "What in the world are they doing?! Gouging metal randomly off of a perfectly flat ground bearing surface that's in a machine accurate to less than a thou? Is this a joke?" 😸 When I finally believed that craftsmen actually can get a hand scraped surface that's overall perfectly flat across the high spots, I also understood how the low spots held oil for decreased friction. I thought "just like jeweling a bolt action rifle bolt for oil retention and smooth sliding." It clicked, and now I think it's pretty neat. My first reaction was so funny though. Kinda like when you learn about stippling and watch a guy stab a soldering iron into a Glock for the first time. 😸

[@WTP-we2ot]

Watching and helping my Dad do this for almost 50 years, you guys take me back. Thanks guys!

[@tweed532]

A model engineer here in the UK, 67 and retired now, always enjoy your videos, need the bits in my lathe your sort of size these days, my max was 3" diam!!! Caught this video at 27seconds after upload .... Keep safe...

[@Hopeless_and_Forlorn]

Can't watch this team work without getting philosophical. Homo sapiens is the tool making animal. The swamp of politics is the lowest of human creations, the hands-on science of starting with three granite slabs and ending with a perfect machine surface is the peak. Thanks for the lessons.

[@denniss5512]

Great seeing all you guys working together to help out a buddy. Great machinist communitydown there.

[@meatballsguch]

I worked with some old timers who worked at buffalo forge before it shut down. It’s cool to see the stuff they made still in use.

[@kmagnussen1052]

I am green with envy. The man with the most tools wins! I want to retake those high school metal shop class and pay close attention, thanks Mr. Cullen.

[@wilsonhardy2100]

Nice shout out to Wes, love his channel too.

[@glennstasse5698]

Lotta fellowship there which is nice to see. Like an old time barn raising...

[@djhaloeight]

agreed

[@pawelkrawczyk2291]

Cool to see polish machine! Hi from Poland! Love your channel

[@phooesnax]

Watch Wes Work is a great channel.

[@patrickcolahan7499]

Very cool Adam, I have never seen this done before. Now I understand those long straight edges that you showed in your Rockford 60" Openside Scraper unload video. Thanks very much for sharing.

[@ilaril]

Biggest reason I love saturday nights nowadays: I get to watch you do something awesome while I wait to fall asleep!

[@Abom79]

You and many others! 😂

[@bobfla47]

When I went through apprentice school at Cincinnati Milling Machine 50 years ago we had to learn to hand scrape. Power scrapeing is for whimps!! (LOL) Our ways were mostly planed and then scraped. If I remember correctly we had to have 8-10 rubbing spots per square inch using red lead.

[@samrodian919]

Bob Geisler 8 to 10 per sq inch? That seems very small amount. They are working on a Minimum of 40 contact points per sq inch and that's the bare minimum having watched the earlier comments and practice videos that Lance and Adam have put up

[@bobfla47]

@@samrodian919 The more spots the flatter the surface and less pockets for oil. This creates more slipstick and a jumpier motion. It will also wearout faster because the pockets are not as deep. The guys who did this were experts at creating a beautiful and consistant pattern all with a hand scraper. When I was a foreman I had one of the oldtimers scrape in the bearing seat on a Heald 60" vertical internal grinder to a table deflection of less than .0001".

[@MrRvandeW]

Having that on a scissor lift is so nice

[@macsmachine2609]

I’m sure not getting much done today fellas. Started with SS, then WWW, Abom, Fenner put one out , Kilroy entered stage left and then realized Stephan had slipped one in on me. What a Saturday.

[@macsmachine2609]

Sorry, about the spelling STEFAN😬. And now TOT and Clough 42. Just getting better and better.

[@SteveSummers]

My favorite of all time shaper. The only thing that could get better is the universal table vs the standard. But the standard table has its benefits as well , larger size for one. Thanks for sharing Adam. I really enjoyed the video. Shame we are so far away for you guys.

[@erneststorch9844]

Waner &Swasey ground their bed ways but they were not flat . They used a five inch cup wheel and the spindle was tipped forward just enough to make it .0005 low in the center of the way surface. That was to keep the way oil from being squeezed out. The saddles were planned and then scrapped to a master gage . Finally the saddles were fine tuned scraped to the bed way in assembly . The bed ways were plained first from a raw casting which I did for almost a year. They were rough ground and finish ground later. In finish they were straight with in .0002" end to end. All way surfaces were parallel to one another with in .0002". I bid over to tool & cutter grinding which I was waiting for an opening for. Wonderful place to work and learn. It's a shame they went out of business. They made turret lathes that helped win two wars and had been in business nearly 100 years.

[@hydroy1]

I ran the holy heck out of a No#3 &4 W/S Turret for over a decade, old & ugly but I knocked out more blanks then anybody on the newer machines as they would hog much stronger then any other Turret lathe if you knew how to sharpen the tools right ! and set the feeds& speeds correct for Stainless bars. Never used a machinist hand book to set them just watched the chip load & color and keep speeding up the feed at a low rpm. Them S /Ws would eat !

[@akfarmboy49]

thank you for your info

[@erneststorch9844]

@@hydroy1 You are not the first person l herd this from. This was not a turret lathe but one of their slant bed lathes. They were in hurry and needed to cut down a spindle forging to the next smaller size and did it on one of their slant beds . To cut one sholder back they cut 1 inch a side in one pass deducing the diameter by 2 inches. Not one bit of chatter. You could hear the motor labor that's all. They made a helluva machine.

[@samrodian919]

Wonderful to hear your story sir! I could read all you could write about working as a skilled craftsman who made machine tools. You are obviously very proud of your service with W&S, who I am afraid I have never heard of because I'm in the UK . I don't suppose too many of their machines got over this side of the pond especially as we had such a great heritage of British machine tool manufacturing

[@hydroy1]

@@samrodian919 Here is a W/S turret in action ---> kzbin.info/www/bejne/jITYdahqbNGhapo

[@WatchWesWork]

It's like mine except he actually finished his...

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

You're like me and hang in both automotive and machining group!

[@scottcrawford2610]

I've yet to actually get a scraper or a piece off metal to scrape

[@lancebaltzley4770]

Hey Wes, send me yours and I'll finish it....

[@WatchWesWork]

@@lancebaltzley4770 Lance, if you'd like to have it, I'll give it to you. I think you will get much more good from it than I. Send me your address to [e-mail] and I'll ship it out to you.

[@lancebaltzley4770]

Wes, just sent you an email. At your KZbin email....

[@matthewf1979]

The entire modern world is built on hand scraped machines. Thanks for sharing that magnificent shop.

[@tenaxxband]

Wes is an incredibly smart guy. i cant believe how many things he knows how to do.

[@garthbutton699]

Thanks for letting me look over your shoulder once again,really appreciate your patients,makes you stand out from others.🤗🤗🤗

[@zanebarton6212]

Really enjoyed the shop tour. It's so cool to see all those old beautiful machines still in service.

[@tomhill4765]

I remember when red lead was used as contrast. Nice job of scraping.

[@samuraidriver4x4]

It's amazing that you can get such high accuracy with basically hand tools and a lot of time

[@Abom79]

That’s how this has worked for so long

[@stefanhertweck]

Hello Adam, that was a nice workshop come together ... great shop, too. Stefan,

[@theblairisstillaround7084]

I wonder how many steps Lance's Apple Watch said he'd done after that power scraping!

[@carlwhite8225]

Abom, Very interesting process, alot of work but worth the labor, thanks.

[@esmudeus]

You guys are awesome, continuously amazed over the amount of skill!! Slowly restoring my hope on mankind. 😁 Keep uploading these super clips.👍

[@mikewasowski1411]

Impressive hobby shop!!!!!!!

[@timd1191]

Beautiful shop. Really enjoyed that. I need the ways on my old Bridgeport done.

[@ypaulbrown]

Sending Love for your love for machines from Florida......Cheers, you make my day seeing this, and put a smile on my face.....PB

[@Rondawg60]

Love Ya, never stop being Adam.

[@orgcoast5990]

This video takes me back years when I visited a very large machine shop in the LA area. They had just finished having their Moore Jig Bore's ways scrapped. It was done by a team from Germany.

[@carlthor91]

Awesome shop tour Adam. Thank you

[@domaves4043]

Your making me hungry with the steaks and I've just had my supper. P.s. Great job with the scraping.

[@e2jw]

Thank you Adam!!! Loved this video! Felt like I was on a mini-vacation! I really appreciated you showing all the steps and explaining everything (would be cool to see the wood shop and gallery too sometime). Really felt like I was enjoying a steak and a beer wit you guys - just awesome. Thanks!

[@johnathonmullis4234]

Great to see you treating yourself to a little leisure time with good friends and prime ribeye.

[@toneault7499]

mighty fine work going on and the scraping looks good to.. lol

[@johnwarkentinnikiskialaska8364]

Outstanding shop 👍

[@marklandis396]

I can remember, when I was about 15 years old, watching a guy in my Vo-Tech class hind scraping a surface plate for a project. As I recall he was looking for 60 high spots per inch. What a tedious job.

[@douglasmeek9774]

Great video! Thank you so much! I’m retired and learning at a shop how to do this now..

[@MrChina200]

Great work and nice explanations and content. I did my apprenticeship in the power stations and a lot of bench time introduced me to some vee way and white metal bearing maintenance. I can appreciate the work that goes into the whole process. Thank you.

[@kevingantniersr6510]

Started tool making a long time ago, I am so glad these skills are still around. Cool stuff !

[@ABH313]

This video was awesome! I had no idea that this was how this process was done. Super interesting! Our company builds custom lift tables like the one you were working on for the automotive industry...Usually pneumatic for the plants but we do air-over-oil and electric-hydraulic like that one as well. 👍

[@Abom79]

Cool! Can you post of the make or company info?

[@calvinwright1816]

This was very cool to see how you do this!

[@Sharklops]

13:03 I love the wheel of fortune controls on that lathe

[@terryallemann2654]

I completely understand hand scraping the ways having rebuilt many old Mills,Lathes and small surface grinders and would never leave a surface ground way as finish but a good job on the grinder puts me well within .0005 then start fine tuning with scraper this cut my time reworking ways by 50% or more.

[@MrPlumberguy23]

Thank you love this stuff

[@annkoehler8017]

I have never seen anything like these scrapers before. What a neat episode! Thank you for posting!!!

[@BLKMGK4]

He has a video where he took a training class on this that goes pretty in depth and shows some of it being done by hand as I recall. It's pretty educational!

[@annkoehler8017]

@@BLKMGK4 Thank you so much for explaining that to me! He is such a gifted, master craftsman!

[@alan-sk7ky]

6:17 essential tools present, Kingway comparator, power scrapers, scraper blades, coffee whitener, Reese's peanut butter cups... :-)

[@userwl2850]

At 31.08... I'll take the one on the left. Jacket potato with real butter.. English mature cheddar and a pot of coleslaw. High precision.

[@latemnf]

Love your videos too David. Glad to see the old DSG make an appearance in the last one :)

[@jboos6256]

Sehr gut mach weiter so!!👍👍👍

[@carlthor91]

And a big thank you to John for allowing the tour.

[@seanohutton3185]

Love the content, I think it's awesome personally!. I only have one suggestion... Ear Pro...

[@RobertKohut]

Nice!!

[@aspecialkindofhard-headed7082]

Seeing that Polish American sure did remind me of my years in front of one I ran. Coal Mine fab/ repair shop in the Colorado high country!! Greeting to All!

[@Rubin5342]

OK, how many of you guys have tinnitus? You are all amazing and the scope of this equipment is just astounding. I have a Harbor Freight lathe and mill. I wish I could ask my dad who passed in 1979 if he ever got to see any of these tools. He spent a lot of time in the Katy Yards in Waco, Texas so I am guessing he knows this stuff exists. It is just unfathomable to me. Love to watch though and I love it. //ji John in Oregon

[@dalelathwell7219]

Wish you guys lived in the uk so you could help me scrap my old ward lathe back true the straight edges are so expensive great video guys

[@thatrealba]

I dunno bout any one else, but to me... that Thompson was eye-popping.

[@crichtonbruce4329]

Considering you recently acquired two big shapers I foresee lots of scraping in your future Adam.

[@sonnyturner2896]

Love this channel someday I want to work in a machine shop

[@GnosisMan50]

Adam really loves all things machining......as a machinist myself, the last thing I want is a Biax.

[@csnelling4]

Thanks Adam. That’s very interesting 👏👏👏👍🇬🇧 Love that barbecue

[@demonknight7965]

i was one of them that questioned why not grind it? because i thought with it rough it will catch. then Adam explained it catches oil then it made sense.

[@waynepollard6879]

That is an amazing process . good TV , thank you !

[@wilcojuffer5940]

I see no ear plug not for the noise of the scraping but the bad jokes of your friends 😉👍 nice video

[@mpetersen6]

A Biax isn't that loud.

[@nhwilkinosn]

You know a person takes care of their tools when rather old equipment looks basically brand new...

[@Metalmike47]

I would love to see that wood shop,maybe they have some Oliver machines in there.

[@EleanorPeterson]

When that grill appeared I suddenly thought of Hank Hill and his propane and propane accessories... Bunch of guys standing outside the machine shop: "Yep." "Yep." "Yep." "I'll tell ya what..." "Yep..." :-)

[@Donkusdelux]

That polish mill is a Mechanicy, very tough mill. our k&t bit the dust before our mechanicy, we worked that mill allot harder aswell.

[@T-rock_chr0n1c]

Wish I could work with these tools and people. Would love to learn how to do all this stuff but im 35 allready with a fucked up back so a dream is all it will ever be for me.

[@joselolopez3635]

Imponente trabajo!! Saludos desde uruguay

[@ENGHHO]

Good for you man

[@timwest225]

Good show.

[@machinesandthings9641]

Y’all make scrapping look easy

[@sblack48]

I am not sure of the sequence of events here. Is the idea to get the dovetail face in one plane, then step scrape to get it parallel with the opposite dovetail and THEN align those with the base dovetail? This is where a guy like Richard was worth his weight in gold. Scraping itself is relatively easy, but the alignment is the mind bender.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

At a guess, the only reason to compare the sides to each other at the start is to minimize the total material to be removed. Geometrically, you should be able to do two sides before even looking at the third, but if you just flatten out the second side, you might move it away from the third and add more work down the line. (But my training is as an engineer, which is to say even if I'm "technically correct", I'll still end up making life difficult for the person who has to actually build the thing.)

[@fanplant]

I'm a fan of both you and Watch Wes Work but Wes doesn't have any cool shirts yet!

[@tomoakhill8825]

Any machinist should have a set of and should know that they can be “wrung”, i.e. twisted together on the flat surfaces so that they cling with 67 lbf pull. You do want this to happen with this surface. Scraping reduces the touching area to 1% of the nominal area, reducing the wrung friction by that much. The oil trapped in the dimples, acts as a non-compressible hydraulic surface with essentially zero friction.

[@gregoryaul2005]

Yes Adam great day of work fun and food

[@paulbragg7618]

How long can you work that scraper before you get vibration white finger?

[@Mr229357]

Nice stakes 🙂👍🏻👍🏻

[@ferrumignis]

The stakes are too high.

[@87scaly]

John Terry went from playing for Chelsea to owning a workshop in America. I hope I’m not the only football(soccer) fan here 😂😂😂

[@gcollective]

did you get a new camera, your video quality is looking clean. great job!

[@Abom79]

I’ve been using a Hero 8 for a couple months now

[@gcollective]

Abom79 looks awesome, great work.

[@phildcrow]

How did y'all get the ram off? I have a 32" that I just took possession of, and I don't know what it is, but I can't make the rocker arm lean forward far enough to clear the ram.

[@afnDavid]

Beef! It does a body good :-)

[@surlyogre1476]

It's what's for dinner, too. ;-)

[@hilltopmachineworks2131]

Amen.

[@TheCheba78]

muy bueno ! hi from Uruguay

[@jamesbarisitz4794]

That's turning out as nice as those steaks.

[@williammalenfant4864]

I'm jealous! Nice shop!

[@EleanorPeterson]

Anyone perhaps new to machining who's thinking that all of the meticulous handwork is a waste of time, and that the mottled surface finish is a 'defect' is mistaken. :-) Giving everything a cool mirror-smooth ground finish would be a total disaster. If you've ever played about 'wringing' a pair of gauge blocks together, you'll know all about that! The mottling is a GOOD thing; it holds tiny reservoirs of oil that let the faces float past each other with maximum precision but the minimum of friction. If the surfaces were perfectly smooth they'd lock together like gauge blocks with a force that 100 men couldn't budge.

[@Deathbomb9]

It actually depends on what the finish is on. Machine ways, no. A flat, precision ground set or parallels, yes.

[@cornoadmin]

Please don't get sick, guys. We would miss you.

[@rich2583]

99.98% of people survive covid. These men are not at risk of dying, at all.

[@neal5186]

Covid isn't real

[@ronniewilson6597]

Wow. It reminds me when i was an Apprentice Turner Fitter fo Otis Elevators Ltd. We gave our Fitter Lecturer a nickname of bendy Bob , due to the fact that if you did something wrong he would either gently bit your Ear or bend your fingers back. So you made the extra effort to get things like Scrapping done correctly. That’s why all these skills have all but died off. Lectures can’t beat you up or call you names anymore. In or Factory we had a Olympic Championship power lifter called Mark Savage, who worked on a Cincinnati Milling Machine who again just for fun would if you annoyed him would get you in a headlock until you couldn’t breathe. Again you would make sure you operated his Machine correctly or else. Sounds like madness now but was a brilliant Company to work for. 😀👍

[@FastBowtie388]

I had a machine shop teacher that would walk up... kick you in the ass and ask "what are you doing knucklehead!" You made sure everything was spot on and you had your PPE on. ;-)

[@WootTootZoot]

Can I suggest you get rid of that wire grill brush 30:00 and switch to a wood grill scraper. PK Grills sells them. The reason is there have been people seriously injured by swallowing wire grill brush bristles. Amazon has them too, or, just make one.

[@wilsonhardy2100]

WootTootZoot, I've been interested in the wood ones. Do they work very well?

[@stevenmayhew3944]

Here's an interesting fact: prime rib is to ribeye steak what roast tenderloin strip is to filet mignon.

[@majorphoto]

beautiful shop

[@stevelecain886]

nice shop we have an american hole wizard at the plant I work I believe same as that one and we have a huge 10hp Asequith radial arm drill thats a beast.nice shop and nice job on the video, and no I know what scraping is.lol

[@FastBowtie388]

What's crazy (to a northerner from Michigan) is seeing a garage with no insulation or heaters. That garage would be a good candidate for waste oil heating. Even a black roof with in floor water heat works well. Is it common down there to not heat the entire space? I see they have vents in the ceiling and I assume ac must be more important there :-) since cold air sinks that makes the most sense i guess. Can always turn a fan on to move heat around the other months.

[@benniethejew]

its florida

[@FastBowtie388]

@@benniethejew It freezes in Florida. Can't imagine everything is winterized or that people plan ahead for freezing nights. Seems pretty risky.

[@thrownchance]

I love that process, but I kept wondering, how do you make sure that both flanks are parallel and not "conical"?

[@thrownchance]

@@nigelcraig3949 I thought a bit about that, and I think the proper way would be to measure the "conicity" (for lack of a better word). That is a problem itself. I tried to come up with a proper procedure, but it always comes down that it is just extremely amount of work and tooling to measure it. Nowadays I would assume that it would be the easiest to just laser scan it. Maybe laser interferometry, but would be kinda awful with the "dimples". That way we manufactured calibres for taper fits at my old job.