So, I Made a Magic System for the Magicless

[@ZagreusWinters]

Hey! If you'd like to have access to the full write up or wish to use this magic system for your very own stories, be sure to head over to my Patreon! www.patreon.com/TheMythWeaversLoom - As this video only really scratches the surface of what the full robust system includes, but is an introductory to broader ideas yet to come! If you liked the video and want to see more of my content, consider liking the video & subscribing! Thank you for taking the time to watch~

[@loucavatlo5298]

So we need to contribute to your Patreon if we want to have the pdf?

[@samusamu5342]

​@@loucavatlo5298 yes...

[@duwanglover3424]

I love the concept and implementation of all these different schools of magic and magic sources. Using real world mathematics as a stand in for magical capabilities was also an excellent example. But Im still not quite seeing how simply saying "my Fighter has the Touch of Eth" will suddenly help him compete with the Wizard without more gameplay/system mechanics.

[@ZagreusWinters]

Ah! That comes in the next video where I'll be going over the Battle Arts system mentioned in this video. As well as some of the things I've teased, a fighter going "I'm connected to the Touch of Eth" means that later on in level, that fighter will have access to features on par with 3rd to 8th level spells. As a non-magic caster, which is the entire point of the system, to allow everyone to interact with magic! Sure you won't have a bustling spell list. But you'll at least have a couple really amazing things that you can do. This video more or less lays the groundwork for the other dozens of pages worth of content I've created. But...as also mentioned in the video, just let a guy cook!

[@lilbatterwitch7912]

This is really cool! I like how distinct each aspect is, while still having them be flexible in how they would be utilized. Can't wait to see the next several hours of your workaholic fueled dive into this ^-^

[@ZagreusWinters]

Thanks! There's a lot on the way in terms of content, I won't let this workaholic binge go to waste lol

[@hotwheels2621]

Getting slight Mistborn vibes from how the Divinius shard is seeded in all of creation like DNA, probably coincidence but I’m all here for it either way

[@varto07]

I always thought magic should be like engineering. Most of us can use the mundane artifacts this modern day magicians create. Some of us even learn how to make some minor mending if something isn´t working properly but for more advance tinkering, you need to apply yourself and learn even more. There is also some basic magics that can be taught from parent to child, something for farmers like knowing how to cast a small fire (matchstick size) or heal a minor wound, similar to apply a bandage.

[@MeloditeCat]

I really enjoy more complex and in depth magic systems like this. Since magic is, well, magic, its can be easy to just put it in with little explanation, so actually breaking it down into its own kind of mysterious fantasy-esque science is something I enjoy. It shows a greater level of interest in world building. I have my own complex magic system, and one aspect of it is the sub-catagory of runes. Runes are not inherently magic but instead act as a way of chanelling natural magic matter (so essetially like solid magic, but solid on its own plane of existance) contained within an object/material (you can put them on living things, but then its a Crest, which is a differnt type of Rune). Creating runes requires knowledge of how they are made, the ability to concentrate on shaping the mana and a small amount of magic to allow them to draw power from something. Usually that magic would come from the caster, but their are special types of Runic paint that allow non magical people to dod so to (since being able to envision magic and actually casting magic are vastly differnt in this case). Because of this, temporary runes can act as magic suppliments that take time to set up in advance but require to magic to activate or funtion past that.

[@ZagreusWinters]

That's really fascinating! I love that~

[@MeloditeCat]

@@ZagreusWinters Thank you, I have plans to implement it as a part of the magic system for a game I want to make in the future

[@uBreeze]

The term you’re looking is probably a “hard magic system”, a magic system that is explainable and has a series of rules that define what it does and is capable of.

[@MeloditeCat]

@@uBreeze thanks

[@TheRadRhyGuy]

Ooooo hell yeah! Loving these videos. Been helping me keeping on track with my own world building project! Keep up the good work!

[@ZagreusWinters]

I appreciate that I could help ya!

[@wraithchronicler5915]

So we are all on the same page, eh? I put off finishing a book with a similar start - Source of Magic. Except mine was Kaelom (divine), Arcane (your own), Natura (nature, but Latin, duh) and Mystic (magic borrowed from some powerful beings who are not gods: demons, fae... warlock stuff). So similar, it blows my mind. I also wrote in some detail about how different practices cast and that they all have their buffs and requirements for them.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Hmmmm, fairly interesting and has given me some ideas for fleshing out my own system a little. (This is just me rambling about my not even quater-finished system, no need to read the rest unless you Really want to) I've largely replaced most of D&D at this point because I kept finding it was getting in the way of what I could see in my head. But I basically ended up in a similar situation of feeling that it was a bit awkward how magic was restricted to a (admittedly large) subset of classes unless you forced it onto a different one using feats or other workarounds. My solution mostly came from the setting I'd been toying with where a magical doomsday event occurred (major races trying to end a war with an infernal plane with one spell) and the Weave had been ripped down to just tattered Threads. My system now revolves around all characters having a Mana pool based on mental stats that functions like Spell Points and Weavers(Casters excluding divine/pact) having Threads that function like a balance between Spell Slots and Extra Attacks. Classes are fairly mix and match, but basically boils down to archetypes, classes, and features, with some classes and features being gated behind archetypes, classes or features. The archetypes are basically Enhanced, Adepts(skill monkeys), Weavers(self casters), and Channelers(borrowing casters). The names are still subject to change though as they're not perfect. Enhanced can't cast Spells or use magic beyond the scope of their bodies, but make up for it by using their Mana Pools to be literally superhuman. This could be by making themselves walking walls of muscle and strength, being unnaturally agile and graceful, making themselves smart enough to haggle on an even footing with a dragon, and wise and charming enough to walk away from that bargain unscathed. They're your normal people with abnormal talent. Expect lots of passive buffs to the character. Adepts are unable to weave magic into Spells, but they're not constrained to keeping their magic inside. If they can get close enough, or better yet get their hands on it, they can infuse it with their magic. Perhaps they make their swords blaze with arcane fire, or will their arrows to unerringly kneecap their targets, or perhaps they can make the pins of a lock eagerly jump into place for them, or sense traps hidden in the walls or floors, perhaps their trumpet can rally an army of the dead behind their banner, or perhaps a pat on the back can change the hearts and minds of their staunchest rivals... These are your artificers, bards, and anyone else who can perform unnatural feats when handed the right tools or environment. Lots of equipment buffs and a useful grabbag of tricks. Weavers are able to See the Threads and strands of magic around and within them, and thus can learn to gather and shape them to their will, weaving powerful Spells, ranging from simple cantrips, to great waves of destruction and creation, and possibly even learning to remake pale imitations of the Weave, Tapestries that pull Mana from the environment to alter the laws of the world around them. These are your wizards and sorcerers, and while not inherently squishy, they typically have a lot more drains on the magic they'd need to protect themselves against direct attacks, and it's also hard to Weave anything complex when you're being punched in the face. Expect a lot of ranged or AOE Spells, lots of dumping Physical and Social stats to get even 1 more point in their spell casting stats, and a lot of waiting around for them to decide whether they want to cast Fireball for the 100000000th time... And Channelers enter into agreements with powers outside themselves for magic. Of course, a cleric might get upset if you implied that their following the tenets of their faith were the same as a warlock delivering pizza to their patron at 2am on a monday night, but there's really no difference between either of them or the druid tending to the plants and animals and cycle of life and death around them; they're all doing something to get their powers, and they all suffer consequences when they break those contracts. These characters don't get to Weave magic on the fly, they just rely on convincing their god or patron to do all that for them either in the moment through a prayer or calls for aid, or beforehand through negotiations and (probably unethical) soul modding... Of course, they still need to supply their own Mana most of the time, though they might be able to bank it if they don't mind being Entirely dependent on the whims of their extra special """friend""". Mana can also be used to power magic tools and other magical items like spell scrolls, or to use features that aren't archype related (like share senses with animals or to speak to someone far beyond the range of woven magic. Or to explode, pretty much everyone can do that if they don't mind rolling death saves and having no Mana for a long while in exchange for a noble sacrifice).

[@tavonlewis146]

This reminds me of my magick, it also harnesses these 4 forces, but I have not been able to create from that. I’ve been able to create a combination of powers, but I couldn’t create what those powers truly are

[@CountryBwoy]

Ok, I'm only 20 seconds in and had to pause right quick. I've been working on a magic system like you just mentioned. I have characters who are magic users (casters and such) and items that can grant a non magic user an opportunity to use magic as well, but on a more limited basis. I'm inspired by pulp era/golden age stories and a lot of them had characters that would consume an elixir or take a "vitamin" for their powers. So I'm not sure what you are about to say, so....back to the video! ▶️

[@ButtersDClown]

Qi is the base of my system as well, almost what hxh did and I think it's a great starting point

[@CrazyCER-s6n]

Hey man keep up the good work and I really enjoyed your videos

[@ZagreusWinters]

Glad you're enjoying the content!

[@Ikefiction0]

I like this. I imagine a person blessed with a massive amount of divine talent, but doesn't want it. So the god turns away from them until a day comes where the blessed one finally begins to improve and reconnect with the god. This could be a result of mortal danger whether it be their own mortality or another's.

[@ZagreusWinters]

Exactly! In my own games, it's used as a narrative tool all the time. And across the board it makes every character who specializes in the Divinius Shard have a special connection to their deity. It's fairly deep and allows for some interesting roleplay across the board!

[@saparapatepete]

or connecting with the right god with whom they share a similar vision

[@Jamhael1]

If Mathematics are magic, then an a abacus built with some magical material can be the way to focus the magic. Tenra Bansho Zero offers this solution, in fact - Shiki Mages.

[@ronwisegamgee]

The caster/martial dilemma was solved with D&D 4e, the edition that was reviled by many D&D consumers.

[@KajtekBeary]

I really like your ideas, but I was confused for a while until I realized that you're talking about D&D lmao (most of my interactions with magic systems comes through channels specialized in worldbuilding for authors). Are 5th edition martials non-magical? I didn't really play anything produced by WoTC for at least a decade lmao, and currently the only dnd-like system I play and run is pathfinder 2e. It always impresses me how creative are people in the DND community. Your system feels like it doesn't even need 5e at all. I wonder how would it's application work out using pf2e's archetype system (pf2e doesn't have multiclasses, instead it uses this mini-class like thing that's basically a bunch of feats connected to each other). I may think about creating some type of archetypes based on your ideas, they would fit my world perfectly. Currently most of the magic comes through from two sources, worlds of power (basically elemental and similar planes) and magical residue left in the world after catastrophe utilized by occultists and those who use magic subconsciously (a way to explain how high-level pf2e martials can do really weird things, for example fighters can literally cut through space itself sukuna style, while rogues can walk through walls, depending on class feats they choose) Tbh, may I ask, why dnd? Your system feels like it would work very well with pbta's playbooks (look up how city of mist does those things, it's one of the most brilliant things I've seen) rather then a class-based system

[@duwanglover3424]

Martials (Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, and Monk) have no magical progression built in their kits at all. All of them have a subclass that gets spellslots and Monks have their Ki progression but outside of those subclasses, they are relant entirely on the DM to give them magical items to come close to a spellcaster in the mid to higher tiers of play. And I cant speak to why he's going so heavily on homebrew, but there's nothing wrong with using a system everyone is familiar with, in this case 5e's d20, as a baseline

[@KajtekBeary]

@@duwanglover3424 I do not think there’s anything wrong with it, I just want to know the reason. I may have a weird perspective, since dnd is almost non-existent in my country, but from my knowledge d20 systems are really hard to homebrew for, and require more knowledge to play, compared to for example pbta systems, as usually their whole ruleset fits on a one, maybe two pages, and you can start playing one with opening the book for the first time 30 minutes before play (I usually ran pbta systems at conventions in my country, and every time a different one, people seem to love it). Still, from my perspective, you’re running a ttrpg, so your system choice depends only on you and maybe your player. You’re already adding more rules to it so everyone needs to learn it anyways. Why use a system that’s designed in a way that clashes with your story? As you said, those classes do not have magical abilities, and from what I can tell from other people’s opinions are pretty weak compared to magical ones. Why don’t use a generalist system (like little 6s, fudge or savage worlds) or an engine (like pbta or fitd) that would support your worldbuilding more, and in which you wouldn’t need to fix anything because what you have is yours from the beginning, and the system/engine just gives you tools to achieve such goal. I like playing pf2e and other setting-centered systems, like city of mist or monster of the week, but creating entirely new worlds for them seems like unnecessary adding yourself more work for no gain. I obviously homebrew when I run those systems, but never to the extent of essentially changing them to something else. I’m asking not out of prejudice, but out of genuine curiosity. I may come off as a bit rude, sorry if I do so, it’s both not my first language, and I’m a little bit autistic, so my control over this comment’s tone is not that great. So, again, sorry if I sound rude.

[@Avriosa]

@@KajtekBeary Well, D&D in itself was always a guideline to begin with and it's actually quite easy to create content for. I think I can safely say though, the reason D&D was chosen is that its what he uses to run games and has been running games for the past couple of years. Why learn and shift your players into a new system when you can use what you and your players are already familiar with and build upon that? It just boils down to familiarity, right? I've been a player for many campaigns with many different DMs, and have had many different experiences. My best experiences come from DMs who have put thought and care into their worlds, created homebrew content, and adjusted the system to better fit their playstyle. I'm currently a part of 3 of Zag's campaigns, and we use and implement the content that he comes up with. They're easy to adapt to, and honestly, its been an extremely immersive experience where you- the player- feel like you are actually a part of the world. Needless to say, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea and that's okay. Hope that answered your question :)

[@KajtekBeary]

@@Avriosa firstly thanks for the response… and sorry that this one will probably be long. Hm, I guess I could understand that, but it’s just weird for someone who played dozens of systems. You see, in my country there wasn’t a single dominant system for decades (I think warhammer roleplaying game was once), and because of it I had interactions with plethora of different systems and design philosophies… and it gives you more of a wide perspective. Let me use a writing analogy, after all I’m more of an author then GM (although well, people like my games, mostly because ADHD gives me super powers it seems lmao). If you only ever read criminals, no matter how talented you are and no matter how vast your imagination is, there are really low chances you will write a good high fantasy novel. Or even a good thriller, which is far closer. I, as an inspiring writer, regularly force myself out of my comfort zone to elevate my skills and gain more knowledge. So even though I like my fantasy worlds, i tend to read political fiction, thrillers, horrors, criminals, romances, because all of those genres can give me new tools I haven’t even considered I would ever need or want without encountering them while reading. For example, Agatha Christie utilizes Unreliable Narrator that actively wants to lie to the reader, which is a brilliant writing tool I would never consider to use if I haven’t ventured into the unknown waters. I actually feel into 5e rabbit hole after this video because my autism curiosity got the better of me and I’m just more confused. 5e seems to be comparable to pf2e when it comes to complexity, although it has less player customization, and people mostly talk about character builds and ways to mitigate them for the GM? I found dozens of absolutely amazing third-party rules that I will probably be utilizing in my games, but there are even more ones that are fixing 5e. Why use a broken machine when there are dozens of those that do work? And they are easier to get to, usually working out of the box. It’s like the system itself works against the GM. I haven’t noticed any GM-facing mechanics in the rules I’ve seen online, which is weird honestly. Are there any? The only one mentioned I see is encounter building and the most common opinion is that it doesn’t work. Maybe I’m wrong and they are there and I just haven’t look into it enough, after all it was only one day. The community feels very different to those I know from my surrounding. A lot of people are talking about great ideas for characters, and to be honest? I love them! But from what I’ve gathered 5e isn’t a story-first type of system, just like most d20 aren’t, so what’s the origin of that? It seems like the system itself is stepping on toes of anyone who wants to play like this because it wasn’t designed for such type of play. Let me give you an example of this widening of perspective in terms of mechanics. Let’s look at how City of Mist handles character creation. It’s overall concept is based on creating characters with two sides, ordinary (logos) and magical (mythos). All characters are mix of those two flavors, with mythos being taken from our collective world culture, so for example you can have a detective (logos) who has relation with plague doctor archetype (mythos) that gives him abilities to analyze illnesses and inflict them on other people. The system doesn’t have any levels and your character progression is strictly dependent on your actions and roleplay. You start with 4 playbooks, from which each represents a part of your character and each can be either logos or mythos (though you have to have at least one logos and at least one mythos). Based on your decisions you can develop those playbooks or completely loose them and replace them with the opposite type. This plus a rather simple rolling mechanic (2d6 + bonuses from playbooks, 1-5 is a miss, 6-9 is a hit with consequences and 10-12 is a hit without consequences) and statues that represent everything that happens to your character that you just give your players (it also replaces hp and any other inflictions) makes it a very simple and fast-to-learn system. Playbooks differ mostly in flavor and in which circumstance they give you bonuses, nothing more. There aren’t any turns nor actions, though in certain situations GM can use GM moves to escalate the situation. Also, GM never rolls in this system. Everything else is in the imagination. And because it’s so fundamentally different you won’t be ever able to come up with it as a supplement to 5e. I’m not saying it necessarily so much better then 5e, I’m just saying that exploring other niches gives you far more tools to work with. To this day I think that pf2e’s chases subsystem is absolutely brilliant and I utilize it in literally any system I run. Going back to the topic of switching systems and changing things you’re used to. I just don’t think it makes much sense. Sure, jumping from 5e to pf2e, call of Cthulhu (actually my first ttrpg system) or GURPS may be a terrible idea because those systems are very rules heavy, and 5e is also very rules heavy it seems so you need to adjust at least a few things, but with pbta, fitd or some small systems like tiny6 it’s just an hour of learning rules and you can play it. But anyway, I was curious, and I think the curiosity was answered? I’m not sure, I don’t like that answer basically boils down to it being a default system, but I guess I won’t get any more satisfying responses ^^’ well, I may try the system in future, but it doesn’t really strike me as anything special, I’m mostly GMing so a system without GM-facing utilities feels rough. For context, I usually prep about for an hour or a two per 3-5 hours session. That excludes things I do for the overall narrative, just my interaction with the system itself and session-to-session work. Thanks for reading that if you somehow succeed at reading it whole lmao

[@KajtekBeary]

@@Avriosa also, do you know there’s a ttrpg that uses YENGA as it’s determinant mechanic? I wouldn’t ever think of that.

[@MeloditeCat]

1:05 honestly, I can relate to that

[@RotaFury]

Interesting idea, some of this sounds really cool. Though I tend to disagree that non-spell casters have no impact. None the less this could be a useful and flavourful tool to use sparingly

[@facundoaloi3809]

I swear this is the best fantasy creator next to the @uglygoblin. Keep the good work

[@ZagreusWinters]

I'm not familiar with them, but I appreciate that you think of me highly!

[@tuliotonheiro]

I would love to read the mechanics of those ideas. You planning on making and sharing it?

[@ZagreusWinters]

Yes! I should probably write something about that somewhere haha, you can find the full write-up over on my patreon!

[@tuliotonheiro]

@@ZagreusWinters Just saw your patreon page. I will consider it.

[@ion4395]

Would Barbarians use Ki/Chi in this magic system?

[@ZagreusWinters]

@@ion4395 That would be its purpose ideally, and as mentioned in the video someone would select a path at level 2. So you could have a Ki-based Barbarian, I actually have a full write up over on my patreon which goes into detail about how each class fits into various magic types.

[@magnetic9089]

Playing a non magic character right now -- basically just rping Regan from Mob100 :)

[@katakesh8566]

So...Theurgy (Collective Unconscious), Druidism/Buddhism hybrid, Theurgy 2.0 (Patron Cooperation), and qigong/yoga It does raise the question why stories dont have magic more prevalent in universe In my stories magic is just another science, so the major overarching conflicts are about suppressing its spread as to not destabilize the ruling structures. Thematically its about hope and awareness. But I'm now curious for far i can spread magic in every facet of living

[@MoonlitPhoenix0]

Thinis chinese cultivation. Its a comcept thsts beem around forever

[@johannesstephanusroos4969]

Lol, you recreated 3.5's Tome of Battle

[@Patientone1724]

Is there going to be a psyonic type magic in your world?

[@ZagreusWinters]

You know it.

[@TTRPG_Quebec]

More

[@danielbossert7632]

Way to long of an intro

[@saberq6413]

For all have sinned and the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus God alone

[@Jamhael1]

NOBODY! CARES!