So what IS an average mountain biker?

With tired legs following the previous day's ride, I decided to do a short local loop, the fantastic Worlds End near Llangollen.
Taking it easy gave me the chance to ramble on about a subject I've been thinking about recently - when we say we are average mountain bikers, what does that actually mean and how can we quantify it?
Anyway, it was a beautiful day, beautiful trails, beautiful countryside so even if you don't give a fig what my opinions are, at least the visuals should be pleasing to the eye (apart from when I talk to the camera of course).

[@rhettetherington1351]

It doesn't matter how good or bad you are as long as it's fun and you enjoy it. Great video !

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Absolutely mate, having fun doing what you love is key. I do find it a bit baffling when people (KZbinrs) use it in titles though as one person's average is another person's AAAAARGH... 😂

[@jonathanclatworthy2210]

You hit the nail on the head, average, good, bad, indifferent, or any other way you want to decribe your ability, it does not matter, as long as you have a massive grin on your face and are enjoying the ride!

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate and yeah, it’s all about enjoying yourself regardless of how good, bad, average, etc., you are 👍

[@SingletrackScene]

It all comes down to knowing your personal abilities. Your comfort zone. I've got no idea of my level compared against others, but know when to stop or go! Great video, mate!

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks Adam and you are right, although I don’t think KZbin helps really, as watching a video and being told that it’s suitable for an average rider could (and does) lead to a small number of people ending up being faced with trails, etc., that they would not otherwise have attempted. Those of us who film know how much KZbin can give the impression of a trail being a lot more mellow than it is in reality, perfect example being the footage I got from Grizedale last week. There’s probably a few who would watch it and think I was being a bit dramatic, for effect (or because I was in over my head) on what appear to be not bad trails.

[@muddymongoosemtb9873]

Great video, really enjoyed it. 😃

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, really appreciate you saying that 👍

[@siriosstar4789]

you are waay better than average ! i'm nearly eighty and NEED to ride an E MTB just to get my wobbly weak a** moving on a flat surface . Trust me your skills are far above average . 👍

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Nah, although it really does depend on what average is. Personally, I’d say that you are way above average, still getting out there at nearly 80. Respect… I doubt my knees will be up for much at all by that age (they’re bad enough now) 👍

[@MindfulTrailBiker]

Great edit, loving the monologues! Keep em coming. What about advanced with expert and pro above and intermediate and beginner below - middle of 5 settings 😂

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate. I think I summed my own level up adequately in the recent Dyfi video: Poofessional 😂

[@MindfulTrailBiker]

@@Stopadoodledoo 🤣🤣

[@Coolcmsc]

Unlike you (!), I’m really old and my take on it is that the average standard of riding has shot up in the last 10 years. Even, astonishingly, my own (not that you’ll catch me boasting about more than my improvement 😂). And one reason for that in my humble (one of many reasons) is vids here on YT. And it’s not just the super fast pro-line stuff that flies by in a blur of GoPro settings magic. It’s also seeing a track being taken at a lower pace (no reference there to the standard of the rider): something that seems out of reach becomes seemingly possible with a mate who’s done it before and invites you to try it, for example. And another thing about humility: getting a bit of coaching at any ‘level’ and age is not just a great leveller, it’s fun, encourages confidence to stop being concerned about others (your point) and, hey, it even smooths rough edges and teaches new techniques and improves safe more confident (faster, even) riding. Lastly, at a couple of hundred for a few private sessions, it’s no more than an expensive cassette and does more than buying a 10 grand new bike - much more. Apols for the ramblings of an old and average rider 😂

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Never apologise for rambling on, I have basically built a channel around doing so 😂 Training can definitely be beneficial although I do sometimes wonder if people are doing the training that would be of most benefit. There seems to be an obsession with doing jumps and drops, with a lot of people specifically wanting training related to that when potentially, training on carrying speed, cornering, etc., could be more beneficial to their overall enjoyment. I get that jumps and drops are what the cool kids do but to me, brushing up on the basics will be a huge leap forward (pardon the pun) in doing the jumps anyway. Years ago, I bumped into a lad at Woburn Sands, he told me at great length that he had done one of Jedi’s Jumps and Drops training sessions and it was amazing. We ride down the hill together and got to an easy medium sized jump, which he didn’t want to do. I mentioned his recent training and he said “yeah, but this jump isn’t like the ones in the Field Of Dreams” 😂 Not putting Jedi/UK Bike Skills down at all, I know Tony (Jedi) well and he’s a great tutor and rider, it just seemed that the lad in question hadn’t learned the technique, just how to get over jumps in a specific field in Hertfordshire 👍

[@ElectricMountainBiker]

Great topic and video mate!! I think a lot of channels use the word average to gain more views, click bait. Not in a malicious way as they could be attempting to say don't expect any rad riding from me, I like to keep it in the box 😉 Like you say, what even is average? Jason back to his best with a controversial topic 😉 Loved it mate! By the way I'm an awesome rider in my head, just an average poop in reality 🤣

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, assuming you added this comment in the right place 😂 I do love a good rant as you know 👍

[@ElectricMountainBiker]

@@Stopadoodledoo 🤣🤣 third time lucky

[@MADC1973]

The complexities of grading mountain bike riders can go something like this: One rider thinks they are good until a good rider tells them they are shit. 😁

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Imagine the furore if that was adapted as the method of ranking 😂

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

You think you're fast until you ride the same trails you think you're mastering with a professional rider 😂

[@MADC1973]

@@LaurentiusTriarius Yep, it's a great ego deflater. 😁

[@MTB_Derbyshire]

Nowt average about the ride location and conditions. Stunning stuff. Overall a video that's way above average. 😎

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, really need to get you over to have a spin on this loop soon 👍

[@MTB_Derbyshire]

@@Stopadoodledoo you know it, I know it....😎👍

[@Stopadoodledoo]

@@MTB_Derbyshire We all know it so let's bloody do it 😂

[@MTB_Derbyshire]

@@Stopadoodledoo 🤣👍

[@shannonmtb]

💯 agree. I'm ok at some stuff and better at other stuff. I enjoy myself when I'm out that's the main thing 👍 love that loop 👍

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Absolutely mate, I really am well below average at climbing although to be honest, I see it as something that needs to be done to get to the top of the descents so don't put anywhere near as much effort in as I should. Such a great loop, really lucky to have it as close as it is (you can see the masts above Degla from Chester...)

[@shannonmtb]

@@Stopadoodledoo see I can wipe the floor with my mates at climbing but they beast on the descents. All relative as we have to wait for each other either up or down ha! All about the fun that's the main thing

[@Stopadoodledoo]

@@shannonmtb my mate Jonnyboy can destroy all of us on the climbs, would probably give a few eBikers a run for their money. It doesn’t always serve him well though, he was once sat at the top of a climb waiting for us for 30 minutes in the Lakes in crap weather; he was on the verge of hypothermia 😂

[@chunkyantmtb]

I think if you randomly grabbed 100 riders you would be well above average statistically! When I first started a couple of years ago on follow the dog at cannock I would have classed myself as average until I watched some youtube vids and decided to try the off piste at win hill and soon realised I was well below average or in fact really shit haha! It did give me something to progress to tho! Great vid Jason! 👍

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks Ant. Does depend where those riders were when I grabbed them though. At a trail centre for instance, I'd be behind on the climbs and to be honest, as flow trails aren't my thing, I don't reckon I'd be out front on the descents. Off piste stuff, climbs I would be as bad but maybe a bit higher up the pecking order going down. It's making my head hurt now 😂

[@nutsaboutmints1701]

Great video. I class myself as an average rider, but I don't compare myself to other riders. People who watch my video's will probably compare me to their riding and depending on how good they are, I'm either a shit rider, average riding or a good rider. I'm happy with whatever level they think I am. I compare myself to myself, did I use to be a shit rider? Absolutely, am I better than I used to be? Yes, can I be a better rider? Without doubt......That in my book makes me an average rider, and I'm fine with that.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, idea to chat about it as a subject came from a conversation I had with Marc, Christian and Jonathan and I thought it would be an interesting topic to prattle on about. It was only when I really thought about what I wanted to say that I realised what a complex subject it is. One man’s average is another man’s fast/slow. End of the day, it really doesn’t matter if people, no matter what level they are at, are enjoying themselves 👍

[@nutsaboutmints1701]

@@Stopadoodledoo Absolutely, it's about just getting out and having fun while riding a bike..

[@TrailTrackerSwitzerland]

Nice to see that loop in some good conditions mate - definitely above average for Wales 😉

[@Stopadoodledoo]

WAY better conditions than when we did it last year mate, that's for sure 😂

[@streetpigeonmtb]

Some interesting thoughts. I totally agree that some people get quite annoyed if you describe yourself as average. I deffo describe myself as average because in the area I mostly ride many are slower but many are faster. And you are right about the different types of rider and riding. For example, on Strava I look quite handy on trail centre leader boards. However, look at my times on enduro stuff I'm nothing special. I've used 'average rider' in titles and I don't feel bad about it. It was always done with good intent anyways. Good topic buddy. And great riding 👌

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, appreciate it. There’s nothing wrong whatsoever with using it in titles, especially as it does draw in more viewers for sure, although I guess the downside is that some may get upset at one person’s average being different to another’s. Really is so difficult to categorise it, made my brain hurt when filming this 😂

[@HallMarc_Trails]

Great video Jason, well above average 😃, totally agree with everything you say, i think most casual riders refer to themselves as average, i have no idea what level average should be, as you say, it's different for everyone, as long as your enjoying yourself, that's all that matters 👍

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Absolutely mate, it's all about having fun regardless of what level you are at. Plus, people who say they are Grrrrreat and aren't look like bellends 😂

[@4x4Pikester]

Did the same ride last weekend for the first time after seeing one of your earlier trips along it. Watching this one I would say that on average we went about the same speed as you lol. You did have slightly better weather though than we did, on average.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

I definitely had above average conditions, meaning that it raised my average speed 😂

[@alkebulansan]

Hilarious me ol china! Where you're riding looks amazing. And how much was your average bike, it looks like it's got a remote drop post and they ain't average priced!

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, it’s Worlds End above Llangollen, a fantastic loop 👍 Original price of the bike was £2500 (I think) but I got it for around £1300 direct from Orange as it’s an ex display one. Not really average I suppose but I was playing with the word 😀

[@PainfullyAverageMTB]

I called myself Painfully Average coz i didnt think youtube would let me call myself "really shit " lol

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Yeah, I think it may have a few issues with that name. I have seen channel names in the past such as 'Awesome MTBer'; who the hell would use that name? Invariably, the riders who use such names are mediocre at best; is Mediocre the derogatory way of saying Average? 😂

[@PainfullyAverageMTB]

@Stopadoodledoo I'm gonna say I'm sub par or not as good as i remember being lol In the words of country starToby Keith I ain't as good as I once was That's just the cold hard truth I still throw a few back, talk a little smack When I'm feelin' bullet proof So don't double-dog dare me now 'Cause I'd have to call your bluff I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once As I ever was

[@GrantRS4]

Nice little vid pal. When were you there? I did a big loop around there myself on Saturday!

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, I was there on Sunday of last week; was in Grizedale on the Saturday getting nervous down some silly stuff (which looks average on video but wasn't 😂)

[@GrantRS4]

@Stopadoodledoo Yeh I watched that one! I'll have to check Grizedale out again, not been for years! I didn't know what was around there so only did the standard red trail! As you said though, its a bloody pain to get too!!

[@MTB_Trekker]

It's a very subjective word, 'average'. Everyone will judge themselves against other riders, I mean, compared to Remy, I'm pretty shit! But to a kid, I'm average 🤷🤣 Great vid mate.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Aye, and therein lies the reason I say that Average is a really broad spectrum. I did think about trying to make some crazy Venn diagram to go with this video but realised that it would be difficult, nerdy, take too long and be utter nonsense, so I didn't 😂

[@MTB_Trekker]

@Stopadoodledoo one of your vids wouldn't be the same without some utter nonsense here and there though!! 🤣🤣

[@JC_on_a_bike]

I’ve attempted rides before that I’ve seen on KZbin. The riders have claimed that the “average” rider would enjoy it and coupled with the infamous “GoPro” effect - I’ve turned up and been well out of my depth lol! I don’t claim to be average though - I’m a definite beginner but I do like to push myself lol

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Exactly that mate; what someone sells as average may be their average and not consider the broad spectrum of average. GoPro's definitely don't help though, as they do have a tendency of making quite technical trails look, erm.... average 😄

[@Usual_Goon]

What is the average? Is there a bell curve with a median for mountain bikers? Who cares? It's all about having fun and at times challenging yourself to do things on your bike you wouldn't think possible.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Absolutely mate, and hopefully what the video summed up 👍

[@796monster]

That looked like a way above average beer 🤠 and you get to ride with above average sheep😋

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Such a lovely hot day, that beer really was above average, even though it was an average beer (Staropramen). Lambert & Butler Blue gasper though, probably below average 😂

[@stu.c]

The fellas I ride with are better technical riders than me. They're also younger and fitter. Nobody cares though. When we go out, it's mostly a question of was that enjoyable? Did you hit that line you were aiming for? Did it feel good riding those drops? Did you get to the other end of that trail with a bloody great grin on your face? Maybe that's a fine way of measuring it, but even if you had a below average ride in terms of enjoyment, it's likely still better than not having gone out in the first place. And i only subscribe to better than average youtubers... 😏

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Yeah, it really is about enjoyment more than anything else, I just think it';s a bit odd sometimes when KZbinrs title stuff as 'Can your average rider do...' How are they judging average? Someone who's only ridden Degla but can get round there at a fair lick is what would qualify as an average rider but the chances are they would feel a bit intimidated when faced with Dyfi. Anyway, regardless, it was something for me to prattle on about as I pottered around Worlds End 😃👍

[@mtbtrailshunt3401]

I call mine self an average rider too.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

I think most of us do, I think most of us are; I just thought it was an interesting subject due to the huge number of factors 👍

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Faster than average is still a lot slower than the world cup average 😂

[@Stopadoodledoo]

My fast is World Cup Racer track walk speed 😂

[@DizRidesMtb]

That was a very average video bro oj lol . I'm shite me but I'm ok with that Lol. I'd still love to do World's end bro . Always enjoy ya vids mate 👍🍻

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks Diz, Worlds End is one hell of a trail for sure 👍

[@Ruffest]

Matt thinks we're average. I just reply with - average dont do prolines. We fall off too much to be good.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Your crashes aren't average for sure 😂

[@Ruffest]

😂😂 Yeah there is that

[@garymartin557]

Average is a bang average adjective to describe a varied percentile of averageness. i know one thing, your not an average youtuber. when MTB started to separate into subsets, average became a strange term to represent a large amount of different people doing different styles. so in summary, this is a bang average description of a bang average term. settled.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

Thanks mate, I never wanted to be an 'average' KZbin channel, at least from a content perspective, hence why I prattle on about subjects like this, review weird products, etc. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and that kind of makes me happy too 🙂

[@garymartin557]

@@Stopadoodledoo good to hear. who wants to be average? anyone can do that.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

@@garymartin557 was just saying to my daughter (8 years old) today that I never want to be thought of as normal as normal is boring 😂

[@WerdnaLiten]

Going by the MTB media, the average mountain biker is focused on bike parks, and going downhill; need to get to the top? Get the lift......pedalling uphill is not happening.

[@Stopadoodledoo]

They’ve pretty much always tended to do the same though, concentrating on the more extreme end of the sport as I guess that’s what sells. Does it really reflect what the vast majority do? Absolutely not but I guess articles on a bunch of middle aged men huffing and puffing around their local woods wouldn’t really appeal to the masses. They leave that to us middle aged KZbin pretends to do 😂

[@JoeJoe-C137]

Am very quick to say I am average when I am surrounded by good riders 😂😂 say... a tommy c groupride, for example, am bang average on comparison

[@Stopadoodledoo]

I would be way below average if I was to ride with Tommy 😂

[@JoeJoe-C137]

@Stopadoodledoo nah, you could hold your own on groupride with the oldham lads 👍 ive seen you ride! did find it funny last time I went on one was about 80 people started about 50 at the end 🤣

[@JoeJoe-C137]

@@Stopadoodledoo dropping like flies 😆

[@Stopadoodledoo]

@@JoeJoe-C137 I'd be scared that they would all call me Grandpa 😂

[@JoeJoe-C137]

@@Stopadoodledoo behave grandad