Energy and matter at the origin of life | Royal Society of Biology East Midlands branch

Professor Nick Lane FRSB, evolutionary biochemist and writer in the Department of Genetics Evolution and Environment, University College London gives an overview of recent work which suggests that life may have started in deep-sea alkaline hydrothermal vents.
This event was held on Zoom on Thursday 4th November 2021.
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[@VectorOfKnowledge]

I'm a sophisticated man. When I see Nick Lane, I click like.

[@rl7012]

Not sophisticated then are you. More like indoctrinated.

[@mcmanustony]

@@rl7012 how much of Lane published research have you read? It’s fuck all, isn’t it?

[@mcmanustony]

@@rl7012 Why don't you answer? How much of Nick Lane's published research have you read?

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

I am a simple man who likes to explains sophisticated things in a simple manner so I can understand...

[@andresmlinar]

Important research and an excellent presentation. Thanks!

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

agreed

[@susanharvey2109]

So interesting. Thank you.

[@johnkendal5562]

But let us go far furfur. Insomuch as to make the statement that science is equal as astrological as physics

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

Look at the depth of knowledge which has advanced since my undergraduate days at University College London. Last I met Dr. Nick Lane was at the origin of life symposium at Anatomy lecture theatre for the symposium in 2011 yr...I have made progress in origin of life with a different approach that every cell is made with 7 Planets...this is my 30 yrs work in journey in which I went and found Creator of our Universe...Dr. Mukesh C. Chauhan UCH UCL London, I was nominated for my discovery of Quantum Light and Quantum Code discovery which form the basis of all life on Earth- both have subquantum subatomic physics structure...well done Nick, keep it up. Currently I am in India

[@SolaceEasy]

Clear and current, thanks!

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

agreed...

[@chris-terrell-liveactive]

An excellent lecture, thank you.

[@Drdssikes]

The entropy / sucking orderliness question of Schrödinger seems to me to be simply the proton gradient process. Life uses order (protons on one side of a membrane) and nature's tendency for disorder to power itself. In essence, the tendency for order to become disorder (the tendency for entropy to increase) is what powers life (greater orderliness). Of course Dr. Lane knows this and perhaps this is not what Schrödinger meant, but I suspect it was at least something along these lines. The interplay between order and disorder is at the heart of everything interesting.

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

This is as simply saying life dissipates energy. Same as life consumes energy. This is the reason for life existence. It's efficient at dissipating energy, wasting energy

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@casteretpollux]

@@dmitryshusterman9494 There's no need for a reason surely. It just happens.

[@ftmrivas3043]

Outstanding lecture. He is awesome

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

Yes he is

[@Video2Webb]

This is a really interesting presentation, with wondrous implications of life falling out of natural chemistry between the planet and available elements. This is what I have suspected for quite a while now. But it sure needs dedicated, imaginative, knowledgeable and hard-working people to do this kind of 'forensic chemistry'....🔍May your fantastic work go ahead until you are satisfied that it's unassailable.💡 A Nobel Prize will be in the works!👏

[@hyperduality2838]

The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@hosoiarchives4858]

Abiogenesis of life is not possible

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

would be nice...

[@spaceinyourface]

Good lecture..We're halfway through his book,, Oxygen.

[@yp77738yp77739]

We are not even close to solving this. Until it has been solved, determinism remains somewhat less than definite, the uncertainty is unpalatable to me.

[@rogerede7372]

First class presentation. Some fascinating stuff here. Enormously helpful explanations. I learned a lot.

[@user-ys9qt7fo1w]

عن ٩ ة٠

[@rl7012]

Not helpful at all. Very misleading and lots of word salads and ambiguity.

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

​@@rl7012 it's hard to explain complicated subjects to laymen

[@hyperduality2838]

The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@rl7012]

@@dmitryshusterman9494 Its hard to explain the bleeding obvious to those brainwashed into scientism.

[@personzorz]

Amazing

[@mattybork]

I like this guy. Unlike a lot of origin of life peeps, there is a certain level of humility. He knows they are light years from figuring this things out, and doesn't seem too ashamed to subtly admit it.

[@mcmanustony]

Who are you contrasting him with and why? Which OoL researchers have said any different and where?

[@mattybork]

@mcmanustony you're kidding, right? All I've heard except him are without humility. I'm a realist though. I know they need their grant money, and you don't get grant money with the statement, "we don't have a clue".

[@mcmanustony]

@@mattybork Could the reason you can’t actually provide an example, only vague bellyaching and ignorant sneering, be that you’re full of shit and haven’t actually got a clue what you’re talking about?

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

​@@mattybork you still did not answer the question. Name someone

[@mattybork]

@Dmitry Shusterman Lee Cronin and Jack Szostak...

[@lorezampadeferro8641]

Amazing lecture

[@rl7012]

If you are clueless it is.

[@waldwassermann]

Always Good.

[@wanderingquestions7501]

Excellent

[@EarthEngineMelbourne]

I feel like this may lead to not only in biology but also the new energy engineering. If we forget about "how this relevant to the origin of life" but think about how to make it more efficient, we might end up able to build massive CO2 fixation factories that reverses the climate change...

[@rogerwelsh2335]

Well if it lowers CO2, you still have climate change when the temperature drops The question is what is a good temperature. I don t see why reducing the temperature is worse than lowering it The “proper” temperature is the most subjective subject full of trade offs. We need to stop with politicizing the environment. It is in no way helping the human condition.

[@EarthEngineMelbourne]

@@rogerwelsh2335 This is not my concern. As a conservative climate change believer, I only care about reversing the human contributions to the climate. Or better, keep the current temperature within a range. For conservatives, there is no "ideal" temperature to go to, but as the past proved that the current temperature range is good then let's try to keep it.

[@rogerwelsh2335]

@@EarthEngineMelbourne You saying what is a good temperature is not evidence based at all.

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

Nature already built massive CO2 fixation plants, the green plants. Are you saying we should improve on that? How about to plant more trees, at least stop destroying them

[@EarthEngineMelbourne]

@@dmitryshusterman9494 You are in general right. However I think that would not be fast enough to restore. If we have further CO2 fixation it is a accelerator.

[@luisathought]

Thank You!!!!🇬🇧🇦🇷😍❤️👏

[@TomLeg]

Exccellent! Time for a Jennifer Moyle fan club! I'm member #1

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

I did not know about Jennifer Moyle...who deserves credit for the Nobel Prize...

[@cjsmithdo]

Very likable, good story teller, and ultrasmart, the guy you what to give you a great lecture in a pub

[@rl7012]

He is a story teller alright.

[@mcmanustony]

⁠@@rl7012no, he’s a professor of evolutionary biochemistry at University College London. Why do you post this stupid lie?

[@mcmanustony]

@@rl7012 no answer for your lie?

[@glenliesegang233]

Molecules without information passed on to other generations without replication of that information is not life.

[@fbkintanar]

4:25 In animals, "if a cell dies the ATP will break down to ADP almost completely in a matter of hours." And yet in plants, seeds can remain desiccated but viable for literally thousands of years, and fungi have spores without metabolism. Among eukaryotes, why are animals different?

[@spatrk6634]

our evolutionary history is different. plants and fungi are sessile so they have evolved strategies to survive harsh conditions, including the ability to remain dormant for long periods until favorable conditions arise. animals can move, so they evolved different traits to survive harsh conditions. however some animals have ability to hibernate, but its not as nearly as long...

[@casteretpollux]

Great question.

[@imstevemcqueen]

Sucking orderliness from its environmental simply meant eating plants and animals, destroying trees to build shelter, drawing oil from the ground for energy of all kinds. Simple

[@anastasiailieva7800]

Yeah. All entropic life feeds on entropy. What matter is if there is such thing as negentropic life. And-what it would look like.

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@hyperduality2838]

@@anastasiailieva7800 Negentropy = syntropy. Syntropy is a more accurate word.

[@Autepify]

So the key takeaway is an acidic ancient ocean combined with the alkaline reaction of serpentinization allowed for a geological proton gradient which contained the energy necessary for the endergonic metabolic step of co2 -> formaldehyde?

[@garyjohnson1466]

Ah the mystery of life, when all else fails, follow the code, question, how does thermodynamics affects the code, what conditions existed that made life possible, and can such conditions be replicated in a lab, how many licks does it take to reach the core, lol, very good presentation, as clear as mud but covered the subject, thank you!

[@rzhfeng8062]

pioneer of OoL

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

Scientists knowledge is after LUCA was made, my scientific discovery on Origin of Life is before LUCA was made from a deeper code hidden inside human brain, human consciousness and every cell...this is part of Intelligent Design which reveals beauty of Life...

[@kurtisengle6256]

Sucking orderliness from the universe : eating an ear of corn, and creating compost, and the cob to replace the one you used. Next year, that gets shoveled onto the 'speader, and cast over the field. This is turned into corn cobs, which repeat the cycle. (is peat the word I want, here?) On every iteration, oh, you are way ahead of me.

[@tomtyler7058]

Brilliant speculations, however, if true, then the process is still generating new life.

[@spatrk6634]

hardly. because almost every corner of earth is inhabited by some sort of life already that consumes organic matter. so even if conditions for abiogenesis to occur are still favorable on earth today, the process would get interrupted at some point because it would get devoured by life that has already been evolving for past 4 billion years

[@rl7012]

@@spatrk6634 That's convenient for evolutionists. Must be nice having to provide zero evidence or proof for any of your whacky theories.

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

MC-Theory on Origin of Life is: Before LUCA was made verses Scientists Theories on After LUCA was made...completely new quantum knowledge is my scientific discovery on origin of cell

[@luisramirez4323]

All of our energy DOES NOT come from "burning food from oxygen." If that was the case, then how come we as humans (and animals) can go weeks without food and still live? It is e-m energy, or the energy in the electric and magnetic fields that gives everything motion. This also meaning "the light of life", which is our spiritual body and thus no need to get this kind of energy from our surrounding environment like plants do, from the sun.

[@anastasiailieva7800]

Yet the very moment orderliness is sucked out of its natural habitat in the environment, it becomes disorderliness. E.g.- immediate oxidation when plant cells are disrupted by cutting, chewing etc.. So, essentally, we are feeding off disorderliness. Hence the entropy.

[@rl7012]

Circular argument.

[@bshul10]

Dr. Lane....Science's explanation of the flow chart for making life doesn't take into account anti-life components, which have equal probability of forming. These anti-life components could be EM radiation, nuclear radiation, temperatures and pressures, as well as, chemical formations that undo or block the formation of organic compounds, such as enzymes, acids, bases, aldehydes. Once again, science paints a picture of a favorable blank page with theories of organic formation, without taking into account, the formation of anti-life forces.

[@bili4591]

I just want to know why a cell die if he don’t receive energy

[@casteretpollux]

Being alive involves expenditure of energy. That's what being alive is. The life form then evolves to take in and dissipate energy more reliably.

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

What I have discovered is there is a Quantum source present inside human lives. Every human being has that and every cell is made with that source. I have counted 26 layers of life with humans and I have seen every layer of that life...

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

@@VectorOfKnowledge it is quantum science of highest order and organization. Science seems too basic compared to deeper layers of our origin of life...wait till I reveal that scientific proof like strings of string theory or 3-D vision or consciousness...then what will you say.

[@sonarbangla8711]

I had always wanted to read Schrodinger's book on life. Here we get some glimpses, like controlled entropy, respiration and food processing and some other tidbits. Professor Nick Lane's attempt remain rudimentary given the 100 years development in QM since Schrodinger. I must admit I am a little surprised how the biologists ignore how life and indeed everything in the universe is quantum phenomenon. Jim Al Khalili started a series explaining photosynthesis, tunneling etc., in QM, while Penrose and Hameroff partially explained how micro tubules lead to coherent QM (unitary evolution of the wave function producing macro objects). Hameroff is not a physicist, but he dragged the quantum effort of physicists and earned Penrose's recognition and started research on quantum processes in our body, but no noticeable encouragement in this line is felt. But physicists like Maldacena, seem to conjecture how the universe, life and consciousness can be traced to the mathematics of QC functions, with error correction, ensuring deterministic physics. The infinite axiom algorithm is still illusive. Susskind proposed a finite gate quantum circuit, but the research didn't break though to the academy. I am hopeful that in the future proper efforts with funding and expertise will achieve to unfold the secret of life and consciousness.

[@casteretpollux]

Consciousness is really not such a big deal once you have life and evolution.

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@rl7012]

@@casteretpollux Seriously? Consciousness is the biggest deal ever. And how do you get life and evolution from non life, non intelligence and non information?

[@casteretpollux]

@@rl7012 Is consciousness the biggest deal ever. We mostly bumble along without disturbing it unless essential to avoid death. You are raising the two factors I expressly excluded. To be sensitive to and be able to respond to the external environment is a huge evolved advantage. It didn't happen overnight.

[@casteretpollux]

You're not saying that life started with mathematics? Mathematics is a useful tool for analysis and prediction, nothing more. And I can vouch for it not being necessary for life.

[@atmanbrahman1872]

It seems like the origin of life is virtually impossible without Intelligent Design.

[@dr.mukeshc.chauhanconsciou3144]

This is my scientific discovery...there is a layer of energy deeper than what dedicated scientists undertaking excellent work are doing.

[@mikebellamy]

Oh wow.. 3:49 _"there is nothing particularly special about the bonds in ATP.."_ except perhaps you need a *super efficient electric motor to make them!* Which cannot evolve incrementally..

[@simonmasters3295]

No, that is *not* what is said at the end of the presentation.

[@mikebellamy]

@@simonmasters3295 Yes you are right _"that is not what is said at the end of the presentation"_ but it was only shown in a laboratory setup not observed in nature. It is what *is said* at the end that is significant! If the chemistry around deep ocean hot water vents was actually doing what is theorised here and there was any preference for cellular proto-life all the steps described should be observable but they are clearly not there. Certainly ATP has not been found there inside proto cellular structures.. But what does he conclude? _"The genetic code arose through direct biophysical interactions between amino acids and short RNA strands; random sequences gain meaning in the context of growing protocells"_ around 54:07 _"this is all theoretical"_ but his conclusions are clearly stated as if they were *FACTS!*

[@whatabouttheearth]

@@mikebellamy A. The conditions of the origin of proto cells no longer exist because biodiversity developed and created an environment of predation. That is why that can no happen in nature anymore, it will get freaking eaten by the tons of extant microscopic predators. B. What is your proposal aliens or god?

[@tostane]

Your problem is you think it takes life to think computer chips and memory can think just as well and they are but matter the universe is full of it, and it is all struggling to exist just like we are. If you want to know where life came from, start realizing that we were created from matter that was looking for better ways to organize itself.

[@mykrahmaan3408]

It is very important to note that the concepts of ENERGY(in physics and biology) and DIGIT(in arithmetic) both lack any relevance to the concept of PARTICLES (neither ATOMS of the periodic table nor the FERMIONS or BOSONS of the standard model). Remember, the C² in Einstein's most famous equation is not supposed to be represented by 300 000 × 300 000 = 90 000 000 000 particles of energy. Even the great physicist, who objected to ENTANGLEMENT without particle interpretation as SPOOKY action-at- distance, did not realize that without such particle interpretation his own formula is SPOOKY. Until we interpret the above 2 abstract concepts (ENERGY and DIGIT) particle physically all of physics and biology would remain as SPOOKY as mathematics and all abstract concepts in all languages have always been: mere WORD JUGGLERIES without positive practical applicability.

[@mikebellamy]

The first of two most important things about life _"genes and information which I don't have anything new to say about"_ That is after biologists are happy to go with physicists who have redefined *INFORMATION as GIBBERISH!* even after Shrodinger predicted it would be a CODE before we even discovered it!

[@casteretpollux]

Good point.

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@mikebellamy]

@@hyperduality2838 There are problems with these ideas.

[@hyperduality2838]

@@mikebellamy Would you care to elaborate on this comment? Making predictions to track targets, goals & objectives is a syntropic process -- teleological. A is dual to T, G is dual to C -- DNA bases. Acids (protons) are dual to alkali (lack of protons) -- pH scale . Positive (proton) is dual to negative (electron) -- electric charge or numbers. Hydrophilia is dual to hydrophobia -- the DNA backbone, hydrogen bonding. The double Helix should actually be called the dual helix as the code of life or DNA is dual. Information is built with probability waves (photons). Sine is dual to cosine -- the word "co" means mutual and implies duality. Probability waves are modelled with sine & cosine waves -- duality! Electro is dual to magnetic -- Maxwell's equations, electro-magnetic energy is dual and hence probability waves are dual. North poles are dual to south poles -- magnetic fields. Potential energy is dual to kinetic energy -- gravitational energy is dual. Apples fall to the ground because they are conserving duality. Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein. Dark energy is dual to dark matter. Everything in physics (DNA) is made out of energy hence duality! The Krebs energy cycle is dual, clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (reverse Krebs cycle). Higher life forms are built or powered with the reverse Krebs energy cycle -- duality! You and I both exist because nature conserves duality (energy). The force of gravity is empirical proof that duality is very real. If Schrodinger made a prediction then he is using syntropy and hence there is a 4th law of thermodynamics! Entropy is dual to evolution (syntropy) -- Janna Levin, astrophysicist. If evolution has a target, goal or purpose then it is syntropic -- teleological.

[@mikebellamy]

@@hyperduality2838 Not really?

[@johnkendal5562]

But these let it be known that these functions of DNA and life, are equally comparable to those of the astrological; of those of the elemental table. from the cosmos to all else everywhere.

[@glenliesegang233]

08:55 "ATP synthase plainly has nothing to do with the origin of life"

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

The only reason for life existence is dissipating energy, wasting energy. That's the meaning of life, to increase entropy efficiently

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@rl7012]

Rubbish. Abiogenesis is a profound, unnatural, inexplainable gigantic DECREASE in entropy.

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

@@rl7012 you are simply wrong. It's a chemical process that dissipates energy. Otherwise it wouldn't happen.

[@rl7012]

@@dmitryshusterman9494 Read my last comment again. Asserting your beliefs does not make them true. Your 'reasoning' is circular and faith based.

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

@@rl7012 my view is based on thermodynamics. Your body generates and dissipates heat as result of processes of life. That's increase in entropy. If you a religious freak, sorry to even start this discussion, otherwise do some reading. I'm not here to educate you.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

It should be listed as ‘the origin of biological life.’ Life is still being confused with biology which is a conduit for life, not life itself. What is life itself is not known, or what consciousness, is as it cannot be objectified or measured.

[@mokamo23]

Schrodinger: "an organism...suck[s] orderliness from its environment." Lane: "i have no idea what he had in mind when he wrote that." perhaps Lane should have done his research. this is a key concept.

[@simonmasters3295]

Schrödinger: Gibbs Free Energy not Entropy. Lane: Entropy doesn't help us much, in that it describes only a conceptual approach Nelson: Lane rejects Entropy Masters: Don't over (or under) estimate Schodinger, Lane, Cronin or Walker, or an introductory comment, on the subject of What is Life? Nelson: ?

[@hyperduality2838]

Order = syntropy. Randomness (entropy, uncertainty) is dual to order (syntropy, certainty). Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@Glower22x4]

Life itself is the origin of matter and energy. I realise now that I made a mistake in my first sentence, actually matter and energy come from life.

[@casteretpollux]

Life, Jim: but not as we know it.

[@hyperduality2838]

Negentropy = syntropy! The Krebs energy cycle is dual. Yin is dual to yang. Thesis (bacteria) is dual to anti-thesis (archaea) creates the converging thesis or synthesis (eukarya) -- The time independent Hegelian dialectic. Clockwise (Krebs cycle) is dual to anti-clockwise (the reverse Krebs cycle). Bi-stability implies duality. Multi cellular life is synthesized from single cell life via the Hegelian dialectic -- the duality of the Krebs cycle. Male (thesis) is dual to female (anti-thesis) synthesizes children or offspring. The Hegelian dialectic explains why there are two dual sexes in nature. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Energy is duality, duality is energy -- the 5th law of thermodynamics (energy gradients)! Syntropy (convergence) is dual to entropy (divergence) --- the 4th law of thermodynamics! Alli life is powered by the Krebs energy cycle and energy is dual. Duality (thesis, anti-thesis) creates or synthesizes reality (non duality).

[@casteretpollux]

Nope. There was matter long before life.

Junkies babble nonsense.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Matter and energy existed long before life, so did the elements. Life is dependent on a material composition within an environment of matter and energy. There is absolutely no way it is opposite of that.

[@larrybutler8794]

James Tour

[@TonyTigerTonyTiger]

James Tour is clueless about abiogenesis. He is so clueless that he talks about, and shows images of, EUKARYOTIC cells when talking about the origin of life.

[@mcmanustony]

What about hysterical lying fanatical zealot James Tour would you like to bring to the discussion

[@larrybutler8794]

@@mcmanustony yes and the bedrock of civil discussion is “Liar Liar Pants on Fire”.

[@mcmanustony]

@@larrybutler8794 I stated that Tour is a hysterical lying fanatic because he’s a hysterical lying fanatic. I said nothing about anything being on fire. If you want to see HIS contribution to “civil discourse” you can see him scream himself senseless as he lies about and smears the entire field of OoL- in which he does not work. The man is an utter fucking disgrace to his profession

[@mcmanustony]

@@larrybutler8794 Are you unaware of Tours despicable and utterly disgraceful rant where he slandered Prof Jack Szostak- an hysterical screaming fit delivered to a cackling audience of ignorant Baptist zealots in Texas. The man is an utter fucking disgrace to his profession.

[@hosoiarchives4858]

Abiogenesis of life is not possible

[@tedkrasicki3857]

The Origin of Life: Not as Hard as it Looks? Jack Szosta, Spring 2023 Eyring Lecturer kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH3dqpalaLaSiMk

[@hosoiarchives4858]

@@VectorOfKnowledge abiogenesis is not possible under any circumstances. I will send you a dead fish and see if you can make new life out of it

[@user-kp8wp6lv5h]

Bla bla bla!!!

[@mikebellamy]

MATERIALISM contradicts itself and proves God 1. Materialism assumes reality is composed of only MATTER and ENERGY 2. INFORMATION is always instantiated in or on matter or energy 3. So materialists assume information originates from mass + energy 4. But we know from Claude Shannon information is a COMMUNICATION ENCODED in a LANGUAGE 5. But language only comes from a MIND 6. So matter + energy cannot be the source of information 7. Therefore the origin of information can only be a mind 8. Therefore if nature includes information we know it originated from a mind 9. DNA's only function is to store, transmit and copy information 10. Therefore that mind must be outside of our reality ie *GOD!*

[@simonmasters3295]

Read Dennett

[@mikebellamy]

@@simonmasters3295 Dennett's *absolute certainty* is indicative of just one thing.. his commitment to the *RELIGION* of Atheism.. Please go ahead and give us a quote containing any *truth* which actually supports his ideas?

[@whirledpeas3477]

Possibly it's time to grow up Mike?

[@mikebellamy]

@@whirledpeas3477 Only possible with a correct concept of God _"11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."_ 1Cor 13:11-12

[@casteretpollux]

@@mikebellamy Well that all gives you a free pass from understanding life as a quality of some, but not all, matter.