The Horror of the Cross without Christianity with Historian Tom Holland

Filmed against the historically vibrant backdrop of Oxford, England, host Eric Metaxas sits down with historian Tom Holland to discuss - from music to marriage to service and science and education - how the West has been transformed by and remains to be utterly affected by Christianity. The two discuss Holland’s bestselling book at length, Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World. This Socrates in the City conversation took place in July of 2024 in Oxford, England.
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• Tom Holland: How the C...
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[@liap1293]

Thank you, Jesus, for Your willingness to submit Yourself to the horrors of the cross.

[@Michael-tz7tj]

Christianity changes everything.

[@jaredross57]

Jesus changed everything.

[@ji8044]

Judaism changed everything, specifically Mosaic Law. The story of Moses and the Exodus from Egypt is the beginning of covenant theology, the first time ever in Western thought.

[@heyheythrowaway]

for the worse

[@Hoe-numan5]

​@@heyheythrowaway go cope and seethe.

[@Hoe-numan5]

​@@heyheythrowaway it's worse for you.

[@lannyheinlen7022]

Jesus scandalizes our lives by showing that only his death can deliver us from our sins. The cross shows us that no matter how good we try to live our lives, we can never be good enough to be sin-free or justified on our own.

[@ji8044]

Judaism has no concept of original sin or the idea of a Savior, and whatever else he may or not may not have been Jesus was a most excellent Jew.

[@Chevalierjacquesarthur]

And isnt that so amazing?!

[@Susieq26754]

Some people want to keep Jesus on that cross. He isn't on that cross, he isn't a baby anymore either. He is sitting at the right hand of his Father. His promises are true. His return will be way different than his earthly ministry, before he was sacraficed. Be prepared spiritually. Seek and you shall find. This isn't about religion and it isn't about being a good person. It is like looking in a mirror at yourself and admitting you are a sinner. Humility isn't for the proud or strong. It's for those who admit they are weak. Because through weakness, He is strong. I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

[@lostat400]

Our goodness and strength of character comes through Jesus, and what he, and his sacrifice, means to us, and provide us with.

[@lowellhuesers5366]

Interesting that in the West, Christianity emphasized the suffering on the Cross, while Eastern Orthodox emphasizes the Resurrection. Orthodox see things very differently.

[@bcatcool]

What a monolith of historical understanding and oratory explanation.... and he is English! Thank God for you Tom. I pray for your life to know Him personally.

[@JD-yx1zi]

These two are definitely not Catholics 😂

[@UrsulaPainter]

Friedrich Nietzsche is a terrible thinker who helped to destroy what was left of goodness and truth in Germanic life and culture.

[@jl453k2]

I don’t think it’s Nietzsche that started the problem. I think he was just articulating things that were already swimming in people’s minds. The problem started before him.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

THE WORLD RULER TRIES TO KILL ME And then a voice of the world ruler came to the angels: “I am god and there is no other god but me.” But I laughed joyfully when I examined his conceit. But he went on to say, “Who is the human?” And the entire host of his angels who had seen Adam and his dwelling were laughing at his smallness. And thus did their thought come to be removed outside the majesty of the heavens, away from the human of truth, whose name they saw, since he is in a small dwelling place. They are foolish and senseless in their empty thought, namely, their laughter, and it was contagion for them. The whole greatness of the fatherhood of the spirit was at rest in its places. And I was with him, since I have a thought of a single emanation from the eternal ones and the unknowable ones, undefiled and immeasurable. I placed the small thought in the world, having disturbed them and frightened the whole multitude of the angels and their ruler. And I was visiting them all with fire and flame because of my thought. And everything pertaining to them was brought about because of me. And there came about a disturbance and a fight around the seraphim and cherubim, since their glory will fade, and there was confusion around Adonaios on both sides and around their dwelling, up to the world ruler and the one who said, “Let us seize him.” Others again said, “The plan will certainly not materialize.” For Adonaios knows me because of hope. And I was in the mouths of lions. And as for the plan that they devised about me to release their error and their senselessness, I did not succumb to them as they had planned. And I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me, yet I did not die in reality but in appearance, in order that I not be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me, and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I suffered merely according to their sight and thought so that no word might ever be found to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, happened to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. Their thoughts did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the rulers and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.

[@Fulltilt1973]

How come Dilbert's hosting sacrates in the city?

[@alexaugustynski3620]

People doing the devil's work tend to pretty universally the same people who readily accuse others of being devil worshippers

[@alexaugustynski3620]

By demonizing others, we create ourselves in the image of demons and become those demons. That is how demons arise, not through the occult but due to the mob gripped by a malevolent cultlike mentality for blood. Happens in every religious confession and nation.

[@Zoomo2697]

"The Devil has little trouble with those who don't believe in him, they are already on his side" Fulton J Sheen

[@ji8044]

@@Zoomo2697 That's an excellent example supporting the original comment.

[@alexaugustynski3620]

@@Zoomo2697 What inspired this is I saw that ISIS called Yazidi's devil worshippers in order to justify atrocities against them. I think this is true cross-culturally.

[@nozrep]

so is Holland a Christian again? I mean it’s important yah but it’s not, for me, necessarily relevant to whether or not I’m a huge fan of him and Dominic’s absolutely fantastic podcast. The recent Henry IV Henry V podcasts they are doing have inspired me to watch the Shakespeare play!

[@newtonfinn164]

If only the religion of Jesus had changed the world.... Instead, the religion about Jesus merged with it. Yet the former continued to exist within the latter as an intermittently exploding depth charge, the history of its periodic explosions being the focus of Tom Holland's "Dominion." Adherents of the religion about Jesus may think that Holland is bolstering their triumphant faith, but he's actually describing something hidden ominously within it, something which occasionally, yet repeatedly, blows it apart. Or as they prefer to say these days, deconstructs it.

[@nothinghere1996]

The actual cross of Christ remains hidden. It is another lampstand, like the Menorah.

[@ElizabethKautzmann]

@11:22 “Latin Christendom” aka Catholicism 🙏🏼✝️🌹📿🌹

[@DanHowardMtl]

Is the full interview available?

[@imnotanalien7839]

A fascinating interview.

[@Juliet04738]

Can someone explain the comment at 1:29 pls ? 😅 "Not that there's anything wrong... " thank you... (srsly just confused, over my head joke/ ['joke'?] probably I'm sure.. )

[@zilchnilton]

I know it's from Seinfeld but it did really feel out of place. Maybe it's just dry humour

[@petewj]

He has a sense of humour but the delivery was too dry I think and he's a Trump supporter/sympathizer so he might not be joking

[@Juliet04738]

@@petewj 🫨😵‍💫 (!) 😅

[@zilchnilton]

Of course a religion like Islam is not compatible with the concept of a dying god who partakes in the suffering of humanity. On the other hand, the dying & rising god motif was quite a common trope in the ancient world & undoubtedly had an influence on the authors of the Biblical texts. The Hindu equivalent, albeit from a metaphysical perspective would be Purusha, the 'first begotten' Logos & primordial sacrifice who descends as flesh & goes on to 'fill all things' as Paul said about Christ. He is the 'light of the world', & in the Upanishads is described as the 'narrow way' & 'only way to the Father & salvation'. Sound familiar?