Software Engineer vs Software Developer

[@SpudMackenzie]

This is the most ChatGPT written article of all time.

[@jacko9236]

Without a doubt

[@danielvaughn4551]

Beat me to it. Yep 100%.

[@mibreit-photo]

So true 🙂

[@jonathan_swe]

I thought the same thing and then I checked in the comment section, lol

[@dancarter5595]

I came to comment the same 😀

[@tusharsnn]

This is the type of articles that adds 0% value and takes away 100% of motivation to find another answer.

[@SEOTADEO]

😂😂 yeah

[@foswa6335]

Difference is that engineer sounds cooler

[@pif5023]

My rule is: in front of laid back people I say developer, in front of uptight people I say engineer. At the beginning I was considering and engineer someone who had a degree but after seeing some of those people struggling with basic stuff I changed my plan. I now assess mathematical maturity, engineering reasoning, verbalization abilities and overall knowledge as different dimensions. Way better.

[@paypalmymoneydfs]

I actually like developer more 😅

[@Optimus6128]

When people didn't want to sound like code monke, not the virgin neckbeard look but chad high status techie.

[@gonzera908]

On dates I'm a engineer, with my friends I'm a developer.

[@xokelis0015]

Oh good. A situation where engineer sounds cooler than something because in almost every case engineer sounds dorky af.

[@1DrowsyBoi]

In Canada, 'engineer' is a protected title, so I consider myself a software developer because I don't want my skull caved in by an engineer's iron ring.

[@senatrius1968]

I believe that is the case in EU as well, you can't call yourself an engineer just how you can't call yourself a Dr. or say you have a PhD if you don't. Being an engineer comes with a lot of laws and regulations, it's not just a random title you can call yourself after finishing a bootcamp.

[@IvanRandomDude]

@@senatrius1968 Same here (Europe but non-EU). You actually need a degree to be recognized as engineer legally. But ofc, software industry does not give a damn, everyone is engineer in it.

[@pro3757]

What if you have an engineering degree in CS tho? Are you allowed to call yourself one then?

[@J-random5]

@pro3757 No​​​ , the title of Engineer is a license in addition to your 4 year Engineering Degree.

[@flarebear5346]

​@@IvanRandomDude any engineering degree will give you the title. Unfortunately this means that in europe a lot of companies will reject you just because you don't have an engineering degree

[@SepehrKiller]

Tom is a Genius, he is both a Software Developer and a Software Engineer, he made JDSL himself

[@grawss]

Is he a programmer though?

[@anthonyewell3470]

@@grawss Clearly not, clearly you wouldn't understand JDSL

[@JMIK1991]

Software engineer... Tom. Takes control of the project, manages long term productivity of the project by looking ahead what is required in those COMPLEX projects. Is able to test and research new technology independently as he knows the architecture of it and what should be in it and where. Trusted member of development team, focusing the software meets the requirements of the clients and verifies there's been no problems or unnecessary changes. Do not leave them alone, someone has to manage them, be supportive as they pretty much know what is needed. Software developer... Manages software project using its current architecture and able to assign positions for simpler assignments while focusing on the software. Keeps log over the timeline of his area and has knowledge to fix possible problems independently, while staying on the software requirements. Makes the software shine as he is who makes sure the quality is necessary to meet requirements. Makes code books, courses, trains new recruits, whatever good they become in. Do not leave them alone, or they take their experience away and become Tom in some startup firm and start to degrade from there on. Programmer... You code, test and do stuff as requested... Learn and read code books until perhaps you want more. Media assistant or Artist does graphics/animations, maybe designs with marketing guy. I can only pray for someone managing some file hosting service like github...

[@pro3757]

*ChatGPT enters Forbes * Welcome to the future of journalism! I mean how did this article even pass an editor's review? Maybe the contributor paid FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH

[@adamm450]

editor has been fired and replaced by ChatGPT, nothing to see here meat-bag, move along

[@sacredgeometry]

Because they dont know anything about the subject. Thats the beauty of ChatGPT it will expose how little these people know about anything as if that wasnt already obvious.

[@conceptrat]

They fed the ChatGPT article to Bard and asked it whether it is a reasonable article. Reply was "it's a perfect article. You're amazing." Writer pats himself of the back and asks for a bonus.

[@adriankal]

Tom reviewed this. He's a genius so nobody asked questions.

[@maninalift]

The important question that I don't hear talked about enough is "Coding" Vs "programming" Education initiatives seem to always say "coding" but actual engineerelopers always say "programming" because that is the correct, true and perfect word for it.

[@theherk]

Programmer is the best word for sure.

[@Optimus6128]

Coder is oldschool ancient and as a boomer programmer I like coder sometimes.

[@IvanOdintsoff]

"engineerelopers" LMAO

[@deank179]

Because we all know it's Codegramming

[@nexovec]

actual great devs just say they make stuff.

[@pro3757]

This article looks like when you complete an assignment one hour before the deadline while you're drunk, hungover, sleep deprived all at the same time and you don't know jack about the topic.

[@ZacharyHubbellCodes]

I feel we all must recognize that, being a genius, Tom is the best parts of both.

[@dummypg6129]

Tom is a GENIUS! #JDESIEL

[@berkayuner]

TOm is a software engineer developer. he does not develop software, he develops the software engineers

[@256k_]

this really feels like a chatGPT written article.

[@kevalan1042]

ForbesGPT is an endless source of aggravation

[@AttackOnTyler]

*aggregation

[@monad_tcp]

did you mean : scam ?

[@meowrbius]

Software developer + Useless engineering degree = Software engineer

[@Tux0xFF]

Exactly 1+0=1

[@kakterius]

@@monad_tcp that's veeery country dependent

[@dipanjanghosal1662]

Yup. Was just about to comment this. You will find some people who gloat about their college degrees though.

[@TehKarmalizer]

I’m probably a dinosaur by today’s standards, but I always considered myself a software engineer because of the knowledge of how computers work that I obtained from my bachelor’s in CS program. That’s not the only way to obtain such knowledge, but that’s the route I went, and it worked for me. I always considered “programmer” to have an old-timey less formal understanding, and “developer” able to solve problems without a deep understanding of how the machine makes the instructions work.

[@chudchadanstud]

​@@monad_tcpPretty much. The only thing that was usuful was vector calculus and linear algebra. It's mostly for translating algorithms.

[@DNA912]

not watched the video yet, but the answer is obvious. a software engineer knows what a segmentation fault is, that all

[@FlanPoirot]

that's still a pretty low bar if you're just stitching shit together you're not an engineer to me an engineer has to be able to assess what is being done, what are the compromises, where are corners going to be cut, what's the focus and then being able to use the tools available (maths, programming, measuring tools, test tools) and after doing all of this assess the quality of the final result and then based on those results decide to continue working on or finish the project a lot of programmers are nothing more than people doing crafts, they make stuff work but that's it, there's no real constraints on the project, they just churn out code every sprint and that's about it. the level of discipline required of actual engineers (ie licensed engineers which don't exist in the US it seems so the term is overused) is way above what all these web developers and backend developers are doing, these people just write code and then after the fact decide on whether they'll improve performance or reduce memory footprint, etc

[@simonfarre4907]

​​@@FlanPoirot This is what people tell themselves, yes. You can by definition not become an engineer until your experience is huge. I'd argue 15-20+ years of niche experience. And it's not necessary they qualify then either. By definition, those traits you have described, can not be learned until you've spent years on the same hardware or domain. At which point, if you do spend that much time in a subset of domains, you will lose expertise in other areas as well as not being up to date. The distinction is fairly dumb, in my opinion.

[@FlanPoirot]

@@simonfarre4907 in Europe Engineer is a protected title, you have to pass a test to be accepted into the Order of Engineers and there's a bunch of prerequisites for you to join you can't just call yourself one cause "I make stuff" and their requisites are even more pedantic than mine and require you to know college level maths at least along with a bunch of field specific stuff but also I don't think you have to be the best at all of those things, you just have to have that mentality and be constantly learning more about all of that stuff, but most people I see on the web front tend to just want their hands to be held instead of diving deeper into stuff (of course not everyone is like that but yeah)

[@simonfarre4907]

@@FlanPoirot i know. I'm from Europe as well and let me tell you, I have met many Software Engineers who are much less talented than software developers I have met. This is a European problem, particularly for countries like Sweden or Germany, where titles carry more weight than actually talent and work ethics. The problem is, that software development is not like biochemistry, or construction engineering etc and attempting to put SD in that category is counter productive. I have met many Software Engineers that get a blank stare during technological discussions with respect to general software development. This is the reason why countries like Sweden, like Germany, have public institutions software systems costing upwards of 20-50 million Euro and still performing poorly or downright failing catastrophically.

[@ghosthunter0950]

​​​​​@@simonfarre4907 surely there is a way to distinguish between the people who give blank stares in technical discussions and the people actually giving insight on them. Also, are people with a computer science degree scientists? I certainly wouldn't call them all that. but I know some people I definitely would within the same degree. The whole field is kinda absurd.

[@JonnyJKF]

I feel like this article was written by a "journalist" who just asked ChatGPT what a software engineer is and then what a software developer is and it gave the same results in a different order.

[@SEOTADEO]

I agree with the ChatGPT step. What I am not sure about is if the article is even partly written by a journalist

[@monad_tcp]

I hope ChatGPT gets a bit better so we don't even need those useless "journos" If it gets even a bit better we don't even need Forbes itself.

[@OzzyTheGiant]

This is the kind of dumpster fire content we can expect now that everyone and their grandmothers uses ChatGPT rather than thinking for themselves to come to a logical conclusion.

[@najlepszyinformatyk1661]

before i watched I always think about it that - developer (works closely to client / with more interaction with client) but engineer works in a low level (building modules, libs, frameworks etc.)

[@jordixboy]

Not really no. IRL there is no difference

[@proper_noun436]

if Dr. Disrespect was a code monkey

[@jaye5632]

In many countries just simply having a degree does not make you an engineer, you need to obtain a license to be an engineer. the term software engineer has been used in the industry for a long time as nominal title or one of ‘prestige’.

[@envo2199]

i have an "engineering degree" and we learn much more diverse thing than a heavily math and algorithm based "programmer degree" here in Hungary, so for us it has clearly defined differences. If you have an Engineering degree, you are an engineer, if not than you are not one. And maybe it is just language difference, but for us the "developer" terms is much more appealing than the word "programmer". Nobody uses the word programmer seriously anyhow.

[@overPowerPenguin]

In most of the EU countries, in the Bologna Process, you get a license in engineering at the end of college. Of course, you can finish college without the final exam to get the license, but this rarely happens among students who are at the end of the bachelor's course of study.

[@ghosthunter0950]

​@@envo2199 can you elaborate what you learn in an "engineering degree"? Also what's a "programmer degree"? Computer science or software development? I've never seen another name for it.

[@envo2199]

@@ghosthunter0950 yea so basically we have 3 kinds of IT uni degrees in Hungary. The first one is Electrical Engineering which is self explenatory, they learn mostly electrical subject, math, physics, electrical architecture and low level programming. Many electrical engineer here switches to high level programming instead of coding embedded things after graduating. Second is Software Engineer which is sister of the electrical engineer path. We learned many electrical engineering stuff but not that deep, we had physics, math, system architecture, electrical arch, algorithms, data structures, databases, finance stuff, and the main focus was coding (assembly, C, CPP, Java, .NET, web frontend. The third one is what we call “programmer degree” is heavily focused towards solving math problems, and algorithms. They have no focus on electrical stuff, nor physics, nor finance stuff. It lacks the engineering mindset, it is more focused in one field instead of learning many aspects.

[@kennethbeal]

Dude I love you, thank you. Having a bad day, and your copy/paste/sort "THEY'RE THE SAME THING", made me laugh. You're awesome and appreciated. Thanks. And another kekburst at "no see, I *talk* to the customers" /officespace :)

[@Blan_11]

Now, I'm more confused.

[@fahimcodez]

They are the same thing but I think the distinctions came from university. When I was completing my CS degree, I could either do it through the Science department or the Engineering department. The only difference was that if you went through the Engineering department then ALL the engineering students had to take the same set courses in first year.

[@ghosthunter0950]

I did it through a science and engineering department. what now... We did learn formal mathematics rather than the solely practical kind and our DAST course did involve serious proofs, I technically have the skills to write a scientific paper on algorithms, not sure if the skills to do anything too interesting with only a bachelor's though. so I can probably call myself both?!? Idk I'm confused.

[@MH_VOID]

@@ghosthunter0950 IIRC my father got his degree before computer science was its own thing and was still considered part of mathematics, so his degree is math something or another even though it'd 100% be called computer science or software engineering or something like that today. He also got his psychology credit by working on AI because that's what it was considered part of 4 decades ago...

[@ew8016]

The College Degree + Bootcamp thing is absolutely true. When I was running a bootcamp back in 2013-2017, about 70% of learners had a degree of some kind. You overlook the career changers.

[@cw6913]

He literally said in the video that non-CS degree holders doing a boot camp makes sense.

[@lilclorox8558]

​@@cw6913even being a CS major and doing a bootcamp makes sense. School only teaches you certain fundamentals and very limited selection of topics. Anything practical that you might find interesting, you have to do on your own

[@farqueueman]

Both going to be re-titled to *software proompters* in a few years ♥

[@insomicraiddict]

Engineers work in basements and cubicles, developers work in offices and upstair cubicles.

[@JorgetePanete]

What if I work from home?

[@MeAmPerson1337]

The best part is that the salaries are from different sources

[@careymcmanus]

My title is software engineer and I have no idea what structural design is. If you are learning a new language as someone who has programming knowledge via bootcamps then you are throwing money away.

[@danielvaughn4551]

I honestly think this is at least partly written by Chat GPT. It sounds like something it would spit out.

[@olitory]

In the book "Software engineering concepts and practices" by Raul Sidnei Wazlawick, Raul says "One of the first confusions in this area(software engineering) is between the developer and the software engineer. This equates to mistaking a civil engineer to a construction worker. The developer, be it, analyst, designer, programmer or project manager, is somebody that executes a part of the software construction process. The developers, according to their roles, have the responsibility to discover the requirements and make them into a executable product. But the engineer(software engineer) has a meta-role(idk if i translated that correctly) in relation to that. You can say that the engineer doesn't get his hands dirty, in the same way that a civil engineer wont go to the job site and put up bricks on a wall (...) (the book goes more in depth but ill fast forward a bit) The software engineer, however, doesn't develop nor specify any software. He enables and accompanies the production process, giving out and evaluating the tools and techniques that he deems more adequate to each project or company." There are plenty of literary definitions of a software engineer such as a)Software engineering is a profession dedicated to projecting, implementing and modifying software, in a way that it is high quality, at a reasonable price, maintainable and fast to construct(Laplante, 2007) b)Software engineering is the applying of systematic approaches, disciplined and quantifiable to the development, operation and maintenance of software, and the study of these approaches(IEEE Computer Society, 2004). i had to translate this whole thing from portuguese to english, if there are any errors let me know

[@boody8844]

That is a nice way to differentiate between them.

[@dipanjanghosal1662]

In reality, the line between sw engineer and developer is not as hard and cut as construction worker and civil engineer.

[@Patriqu]

Everyone has their own definitions.

[@NotThatKraken]

Computer Science and Software Engineering are related academic fields. CS is more theoretical and SE is broader and includes QA, design, and project management as part of the academic program. Both CS and SE grads typically get jobs as Software Development Engineers in industry and are paid exactly the same. Out here on the left coast starting SDE salaries are 150-200k and average pay is more like 350k. It can pay 1M or more for very senior roles.

[@luisjaimegonzalez4592]

At some point of my career I had this same question, difference between SE and SD. Later I realized is just a tag companies use to label their employees but thx to this article I know the pure an unique truth. It blew my mind (read the last lines with sarcasm)

[@Dotrund]

This is just chat jippitty with a tech journalism job

[@szmr]

Dude, I throughly enjoy these videos.

[@petenilson]

Forbes hallucinating hard enough to make chat gpt blush

[@MrOnePieceRuffy]

In the Gaming Industry lit. everyone is called a DEV(eloper), even if they're only Graphics Designers who can click some Blueprints together

[@complexity5545]

In the USA: Software Engineer was a certification and mostly talked about waterfall, scrum, and pow wow stuff; you know the useless stuff. Those people were usually female back in the early 2000s to 2010 (because customers like looking at pretty girls). Pretty girls would wine and dine the customer contract. Especially for some of the testing equipments back in the day. Software engineers were someone working with the sales department. The sales team guys would finalize a sale and hand-off the customer to a Software Engineer. They call them Field Engineers now. The Software Engineer would nail down the project requirements from the customers. SE would then talk to the Software Developers to get the business requirements and make custom changes to the software or firmware. Software Engineers used to make bank ($100,000 (just to talk to customers)). Software Engineers had short careers because their paycheck was based on their performance (with the sales squad). The corporation had to keep hiring new software engineers to attract repeating customers or new customers. Software Engineers were usually promoted or moved to Project Management, another region, or fired. Testing equipment back in the day was a huge industry. They used to sell and cost 75_000 to 100_000 a box. Test Equipment had special custom PCIe NICs or (xilinx) FPGA to blast a network with packets and overburden a whole network. I don't know how much they cost today, but an individual sales team member used to have a bare minimum of 1 million target goals a quarter. You usually have 8 guys on a team. Everybody involve with a sale would get a bonus. They probably still do it today, but that job lifestyle is nothing but southwest flying with no rest; its all burnout. You want to cut your wrist by the end of the year and the pressure to make sales. I knw alot of these guys. By the time they got home from a 3 month tour, their wife had filed for divorce and the guy would be on uppers. You sleep in a hotel 4 days out of the week. I've had life changing conversations with sale team guys; they make alot of money, but are they happy (usually not (unless you made it to senior upper sales)). Sales guys would usually make meetings at strip-joints and show the customer a good time. But Software engineers were basically the customer troubleshooting. SE would translate and use vocabulary that the Computer Scientists, Computer Programmers, and Computer Engineers could understand (without bugging the customer). But everyone figured out that Software Engineers was basically bu115h1t by the time 2010 came around; all that load went to the sales guy. The Software Developers made all the actual products. I wrote a whole 5 page paper on this stuff to explain it to the college job I had back in 2007 because the HR department didn't know. God I hate corporate. God, this video brought back memories of why I hate corporate. But for-real, Software Engineer was created by IBM|[Big Blue], Sun Microsystems, Red Hat, Microsoft, Oracle, and other companies to sell certifications to colleges. Colleges would offer SE accreditation. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole of college money and loans. Software Engineer means something totally different outside of the USA.

[@JonathanSwiftUK]

If you write code but do not analyse you are a programmer. If you discuss the requirements with the end user / business / IT manager but don't code, you are an analyst. If you do both you're an analyst / programmer. That was 30 years ago. Now developers generally do the analysis and write the code or participate in creating the end product / feature, and I think that makes a lot more sense. Once you throw scrum, agile etc., Into the mix is where it can become overly process orientated and stops being fun and productive, creativity becomes subdued. Nobody just writes code from a template of instructions like an old-school programmer may have done. Many titles are very loose and likely don't cover what you do.

[@IvanRandomDude]

"Engineer" title really is watered down in the last decade. We started calling everyone engineer.

[@williamskrimpy3276]

UPDATE: I've just failed my degree... But not to worry, I'm going to apply for 'make-up/hair-engineering 101' next semester! (never give up 🙏)

[@khatdubell]

Look, buster, people didn't go to sanitation school for 4 years just to be called a "garbage man".

[@samgould8567]

This is my take as a pinky-ring-slinging M.E. degree holder: engineering is more about design and analysis than actually building stuff. For example, you don’t see mechanical engineers out in the shop very often - those are the machinists, fabricators, and assemblers. Likewise, you have testers, installers, and maintenance personnel all with different job titles. If we are going to borrow from the physical engineering lexicon, I think that “software developer” is a better term than “software engineer” just because it encompasses all of the different phases of the SDLC rather than just design and analysis. I don’t really care all that much, but the closest software equivalent of someone like a mechanical engineer in terms of job responsibilities is probably the “software architect”.

[@raztaz826]

I was told in university in Canada that Software Engineering brings the engineering discipline to software. So software engineers are more professional and plan stuff out before doing it rather than just going ahead and making something.

[@alexnefi]

My company just fuses the two together and calls me a "Development Engineer"

[@asadickens9353]

I have limited college, no degree, I went to a boot camp for 1 day, and most of what I learn is from talking to people in the community, books, and reading/watching documentation/tutorials.

[@PhilippBlum]

> "Write me a forbes article about the difference between software developer and software engineer"

[@beaker071]

Of course, you can use the names interchangeably. Also, I think people that call themselves Software Engineers, they aim to spend more time working on improving the processes and standards (how the teams deploy to prod, scalability concerns...) that other "developers" use to create actual business value.

[@kinkajou2310]

In many countries, "engineer" is a legal title requiring degrees from specific schools, so the difference in where I am from is legal, and jobs posted by government agencies account for that difference, most private companies don't care, they only care that you have a 5-year degree (Both master's and engineering degree), but many must fulfil a quota of "engineers".

[@quelchx]

In 2023 a software engineer is the same as a software developer. You can disagree but my response -- its 2023 and anything goes bro.

[@mecanuktutorials6476]

I was born a software developer but I identify as a software engineer. My pronouns are SWE/SWR.

[@anonlegion9096]

"Programmers, they're like passerbies." "This is Gypitee generated!" "Are you even a software engineer if you don't know Turbogears?!" -ThePrimeagen you are supremely hilarious bruv!!

[@AccessAccess]

Article is a joke. There's a few differences but from the College level, Engineer is part of the engineering department while Developer can be part of any number of things, or just standing alone. Being part of the engineering department means you will be taking some core engineering classes -- generally mechanical, electrical, computer, and others. So engineering has a wider breadth, having at least some understanding of hardware as well as general engineering and technical fields, while developer is heavily focused on just software and the development of such. The reason that engineer has a lower median salary is that not all software engineers are doing jobs as software developers, but there is nothing to stop them from taking those positions.

[@jonathan.watson]

In the UK they're all just literally used interchangably, software developer, fullstack dev, software engineer (read job ad it's literally just backend job) etc.

[@dandogamer]

An engineer is someone who designs and builds something (machines, structures, power grids, bridges etc. ) so for most I would say the term developer and engineer is pretty interchangable

[@ramtinabadi]

Forbes has the content quality of a small blog

[@Baby4Ghost]

The description of software engineer sounds partially like a software architect. (architecture- and structural design = design patterns??) Also the tasks varies per company because not all companies have full teams, meaning: not all companies have business analysts. If you are lucky, youre teams does so you dont need contact with the end clients. *Make sure to always check your contract/agreements to what your tasks/responsibilities are*. And even when you have a business analyst in your team, if youre the lead developer, you might share responsibilities with the business analyst.

[@WillianGirhad]

Here in Brazil you're a Software Engineer if you've graduated in Computer Engineering, otherwise you're just a Software Developer.

[@tomasznaglo]

@ThePrimeTime would you consider the beautifyllu chatgpt generated comparison bs? >In essence, software development is a broader term that refers to the actual act of writing code and creating software, while software engineering is a discipline that encompasses the systematic application of engineering principles to develop and manage software projects effectively. Software engineers may be involved in software development, but they also play roles in project management, software architecture design, quality assurance, and maintaining software throughout its lifecycle. Software development is just one component of the broader field of software engineering.

[@rv8804]

bro not only did you bamboozle yourself by reading the chatgeepeedee article. you managed to bamboozle us by making us watch it. at least i know now that I am both a software developer and software engineer LOL

[@batatanna]

The cycle of bamboozlement is endless 💀

[@vanH3141]

The article reads like an annual report.

[@giorgos-4515]

This is an HR article, software engineer/developer,computer programmer just confusing terminology for the same thing. Coding is the thing that is more narrow in sense and just includes writing and debugging programs.

[@uome2k7]

people who have a degree in CS and go to bootcamp are usually people who have trouble finding a job. The stuff covered in college is not fully meeting the buzzwords that jobs look for so bootcamps kinda feel that gap if people are having trouble finding a job right out of school. It could also be people learned one language in school and go to bootcamp to learn other language or do more application concepts like web programming instead of just learning c#, java, javascript...they get exposure to Spring, React/Angular etc.

[@jomamaiscool415]

Sounds like the article confused “Software Engineer” with “SYSTEMS Engineer”.

[@wforbes87]

This mans is reading the worst articles in the best ways possible and it makes me very happy

[@grigorestefan8755]

I see it like this: a software is like building a city, fully functional, clients will be the tenants. The Software Programmer is the Architect, he knows how a city works from inside/out and how it will affect everything, he will lay down the plans for the city. The Software Developer is responsible with the production at all stages, logistics about how things will be put in practice, what and how the city will be constructed, he will present the finished product to the tenants. The Software Engineer is responsible with creating the buildings, block by block. How underlining pipes will go, required maintenance after city is build, maybe a construction material is better than the other (library). The Software Coder is the construction worker. He will code a pipe, mount a wall, etc. If you intend to build a house (small app) you can use a Software Engineer and several Coders. If you don't want to be replaced by an AI soon, level up from Coder to Programmer.

[@abbasdharamsi]

Great discussion on the difference between software engineers and developers! As a mechanical engineer, I appreciate the parallel between software development and the engineering field. Just like software engineers consider all components of a project, mechanical engineers also analyze and integrate various components to design and develop efficient and reliable mechanical systems. Both fields require problem-solving skills, attention to detail, and collaboration with stakeholders. It's fascinating to see the similarities and the critical role that engineering plays in different domains. Keep up the informative content!

[@vncntjms]

for me engineers create software in general, like tools, libraries, engines and infra. while developers, build applications on top of those tools. developers are the ones closer to end users.

[@ninjaasmoke]

hmm, I think modern day jobs have bastardised the use of 'engineer' and 'developer' "engineers" need a license, an official certification, to operate "developers" don't to understand this, remove "software" and add "civil" "civil engineer" - a licensed individual who can operate to build stuff like buildings, bridges, etc "civil developer" - idk

[@kippie80]

take home from this article is that all you(us) f-cks are getting paid to much! Time to take a strip of fat off ... cut your meat rations .. limit you to your 15 minute zone. ... You work AI? AI will replace you unless to take less .. Would you like another soy latee?

[@incawarrior5470]

There is a difference... Definition of engineer per Cambridge Dictionary: "a person whose job is to design or build machines, engines, or electrical equipment, or things such as roads, railroads, or bridges, using scientific principles." Thus, if you're using scientific principles (i.e. physics/chemistry/biology) then you're a software engineer (i.e. developing software for autonomous cars). Most software careers fall under web development, which rarely uses scientific principles (note: logic/math are not scientific principles).

[@rasalas91]

Looks like Forbes asked Chat Gippity? It's really good at creating texts like that, but it lacks consistency when the text gets too long

[@Jordans1882]

What you do at Initech is you take the specifications from the customer and bring them down to the software developers?

[@MJ46.91]

I'm a mechanical engineer, after spending years between c++, Fortran, Matlab, and python, I had to go through a boot camp to learn the "basics" of programming

[@cherubin7th]

What is the difference between a bridge engineer and a bridge developers?

[@NotThatKraken]

Bridge developers are trusted with wrenches and power equipment. Bridge engineers draw pictures of bridges, then stamp the pictures with their engineer stamp.

[@mirakekkle9476]

One is the equivalent of a plumber and the other is the equivalent of 4 years of engineering curriculum.

[@rafaelbordoni516]

I just call my self a programmer because everyone knows what's that.

[@sleekism]

exactly lol

[@tiger-bee]

Software development Engineer be like: I deserve double the salary.

[@LoveLearnShareGrow]

This article was untouched by human hands.

[@jjysoserious]

In Canada, I have a CS degree and work as Software Developer because Engineer is reserved to people who did an engineering degree (software engineering for example) or even if you did an electrical engineering degree and went into programming you will be a Software Engineer and not Software Developer.

[@DH-Dev-]

Engineers traditionally think things through ahead of time, you can't just build a bridge over and over again until it stops falling over. But you sure can for software.

[@nickchauhan]

Start to end I was laughing 😂 main difference they mentioned on the last line of the article 😂😂😂😂

[@damiantedrow3218]

someone who builds a bridge versus someone who engineers it. both understand the materials and the process of building, but only one can do the math/physics to know if its gunna fall down and therefore can optimize the design to minimize cost while still getting the job done. now an architect cares about how people will use it, and the impact on the psyche. an architect paints the bridge orange.

[@foobar8894]

Imagine if Steve Balmer would have know about this back in 2000. 'Engineers! Engineers! Engineers!'

[@lottexy]

software engineer refers to someone who is a engineer in software, software developer refers to someone who is a developer in software. easy.

[@jordixboy]

And IRL 0 difference.

[@quocanhhbui8271]

This article + video is hilarious.

[@Emerson-mv4hm]

The best part is not the article, but ThePrimeagen keeps getting surprised at the content of the article, when we already know it's gonna be bad. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

[@jkennethking]

In practice not much. But legally in some parts of the world, one is licensed and the other isn’t.

[@zwparchman]

I was charged an engineering fee at my university just as a mechanical engineer would have been charged. That makes me obviously a Software Engineer.

[@mohammedalmahdiasad6832]

According to this article, software engineers are architect and principal architect

[@Notoriousjunior374]

Think of it as one is a framework creator and the other user of the framework.

[@Emerson-mv4hm]

This article is soooooo CHATGPTly. hahahha

[@Pariatech]

I'm a software artisan! Get it right!

[@cod3r1337]

Potayto, potahto. That's my take. Basically it's just a way for managers to artificially create some kind of carreer ladder.

[@CamembertDave]

I'm guessing the prompt ChatGPT was given for this article was "write an article which claims to explain the difference between software developer and software engineer, but which actually presents no meaningful differences and explains nothing."

[@jm.101]

Work is work, a problem is a problem.

[@wesleyarnold9269]

I am both a developer and a civil engineer. Literally a software engineer.

[@khatdubell]

In some places calling yourself an engineer requires a degree. So there is a difference.

[@minciNashu]

Engineer is just an internal title. Where I work now we call ourselves 'devs'

[@jasonhindle4054]

There’s bugger all difference. It’s just people trying to get stuff done using whatever happens to be fashionable right now.

[@Optimus6128]

I am boomer coder. The new terms are status and going away from code monke.

[@Sammysapphira]

The main difference between a software engineer and a software developer seems to just be "skill." I see the separation made all the time, and it just boils down to software engineers being more skillful/senior software developers. It's just corporate title jiggering that every industry does to seem more important.

[@victorcleftune7344]

Prime remembered to turn off alert today

[@quachhengtony7651]

actually I'm a prompt engineer now. GET. IT. RIGHT.

[@TheNewton]

HTML is a programming language, specifically a declarative programming language. Turing completeness is not a requirement for a programming language. Less seriously the browser is an HTML compiler JIT executable.

[@andythedishwasher1117]

The impression I'm getting from my early experience in the industry is that the developer is better at talking to human beings (programming in English) whereas engineers get paid less because they haven't mastered that skill set. Makes me feel better about the time I spent trying to be a rapper. At least I learned how to program in English.

[@erikliubakka6514]

From my experience, the difference is pretty much in relation to what is being programmed, and pretty industry/location dependent. Imo, the pay discrepancy between Software Developer vs Engineer is almost 100% CoL related. As developer roles are all in California, Engineering roles are not.

[@andythedishwasher1117]

@@erikliubakka6514 Noted. Still gathering Intel on how all this works.

[@xynyde0]

so... a software engineer -> product manager and a software dev -> software engineer

[@zelytics]

peculiar how they cite the median salary for developers but the average for engineers?

[@kennethbeal]

Happy Father's day, Primeagen!

[@williamkibira5789]

Well, there is a difference but, I don't think it has much to do with what is mentioned in that article. In my opinion.