SolarEdge Optimizers Vs Enphase Microinverters ( Going Into 2022 )

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In this video, Joe presents an update of the comparison between the top 2 US residential solar brands: SolarEdge and Enphase.
Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy independent and how to set up your home to run off the grid during an emergency. We empower families to take control of their energy generation and storage so that they will never be left in the dark without electricity.
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#SolarEdgeOptimizers #EnphaseMicroinverters
#SolarEdgeVsEnphase
SolarInverter #SolarSystem #SolarPower #Inverters

[@allsolartexas]

Another great tutorial. Thank you for this content! Educating customers should be the FIRST priority for any business.

[@JeanneBuchanan]

This video was extremely helpful and seemed like an unbiased, honest comparison of the 2 inverters. Thank you!

[@davidorcutt9246]

Your videos always give good value and info, thank you.

[@bobqzzi]

Good stuff as usual. Just had my Enphase stuff installed and currently waiting for National Grid to install the new meter

[@CupCake-xd6wv]

You are a great representative with precise points and details of two inverter systems. I have gained more understanding which Inverter is my option. You are not bias as comments from reviewers of your video. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledges with us.

[@af1023]

WOW! I have been shopping for a solar solution for my home and been asking this very questions concerning these devices. Coupled with the video you posted on the top 5 solar panels, it is going to help me determine the final solution Thank you Joe

[@woodieb.6581]

Nice explanation, comparison, and summary. Thanks!

[@mikusion]

Opts doing well, the only alert I got was when amount of sun was really low and inverter had to start/stop few times. If you have some objects putting shade on a bottom string it is really a good option (diff in power could be 2x or more per module) - happy with the purchase.

[@getpaid.gohome4506]

Great video! Thank you for all the info!

[@user-fw1tm4eb1y]

Great, easy to understand video.

[@jandeboer221]

Thanks from Europe, very helpful!

[@johannes8346]

Really well explained!

[@oleksiimertymoshenko6100]

Thanks man, it was useful

[@DrinkingStar]

Because of your unbiased comparison with your competitor, you are the 1st person in whom I could fully trust if I were to invest in solar power. Your information is invaluable and totally trustworthy. Thanks.

[@SolarSurge]

Thanks for the support!

[@akidwaimd]

It is so easy to watch any one of your videos. I like how you take a pause at the end of every point you make. It gives the listener time to digest what was just said. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@clairebinder166]

I prefer Enphase when the distance to the fuse box is long, like multi story buildings. Also running DC can be limited due to some building code restrictions. Also easier for strange roof shapes or shading situations. Solar Edge is better if there is a large DC battery storage to save one transformation.

[@tippylosojos]

Enphase all day for me, it’s the only option I quote

[@TJ74su]

The video I was looking for! Just need the battery systems compared now

[@SolarSurge]

Stay tuned...

[@davidramsay6142]

Great update video. I would be very interested to hear more information around reliability and failures. I am interested to hear the safety record of HVDC vs LVAC. We are all comfortable with AC and I tend to favour it for running cables through a loft space.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi David and I would agree. The lower voltage AC wiring is safer for running inside the home.

[@gilbertjaramillo8735]

Great video and explanation of the differences. I just added a SolarEdge 5kW optimizer system to my existing 10kW Enphase system where I use IQ8-H microinverters and 395w Trina solar panels. I definitely like the Enphase system much better. It was more expensive per watt but the pros vs the cons are lots better in my opinion. I also added a 1500w Missouri Wind and Solar wind turbine to supplement the wattage during wintertime when the days are shorter and the sun able is lower. Definitely not a fan of wind turbine systems, at least for my area when the wind really just blows fast enough for the turbine during Springtime.

[@danothemano350]

Enph ftw! Better products for the long term that don't fail.

[@steveswoodworking2504]

Enphase is now shipping the IQ8 (finally), which allows having solar power even if the utility power is out, without an expensive battery! As long as the sun is shining, and the house load isn't too high, the IQ8 from Enphase will put out power during the day. You will need to add Enphase's automatic switch which will turn off utility power and keep making solar power if the utility power goes out.

[@Orvillerede100]

Not as expensive as a battery, but still about a $10k adder on top of the increase in cost on the iQ8's over the iQ7's. iQ7's wont be available in a few months anyways

[@steveswoodworking2504]

@@Orvillerede100 Thanks for the info. I hadn't seen the price difference in inverters yet. Of course if I upgrade my 20 old M215's to IQ8's, and get one of those switch boxes (around $2k) then that does add a bunch of expense even without batteries. I'm not sure how often PG&E will be pulling these power outages to try and stop them from catching CA on fire every summer. I had a couple multi day power outages, then the most recent ones didn't include my neighborhood. Anyway, I'm not sure it would be worth it for me, but having the ability to have power if the sun is shining would be nice.

[@westcoaststacker569]

@@steveswoodworking2504 May be a better investment to buy the switch, envoy communications kit, and a 3.3kw battery or multiples instead of replacing the micros inverters which could still be used to keep the battery charged etc.. The 10KW is just 3- 3.33KW under a single cover.

[@ARi16767]

Great video. Thank You very much. As You said, that You are helping families to become prepared against power grid failures: How do You manage a grid failure with micro Inverters? They need to switch off production if no grid is present (at least here in Germany) What do You need to make them work without the power grid? I know, that enphase intruduced a micro grid forming micro inverter lately (needs a switch box to seperate Your home from the grid) But how did You manage the "black case" before?

[@Raypatrick66]

I also would add high capacity capactors! to assisit withanything like pumps etc

[@pvon128]

Great review for someone new to solar. Both systems are great but perhaps you could dive deeper into some of the differences. Enphase can charge the battery and run house loads from a generator (20 brand models approved) while PV is producing power. Enphase will let you charge battery from the grid although that might affect tax credits. Enphase microinverter IQ8 can produce energy in a grid down situation without the need of a battery. Enphase allows homeowners to do their own installation after a training course. Enphase has a greater degree of redundancy but can still fail. Enphase has a greater degree of user control of system from their app. I actually have both systems on my home. They are both great but DIFFERENT.

[@thaddeus1519]

Which looks better aesthetic wise for install?

[@cheerksu]

I have had enphase inverters for 7 years and three to four fail every year and I have to pay to have them replaced even though they are under warrenty from Enphase and are replaced. BUT Enphase will FIGHT YOU EVERY STEP TO THAT IT IS NOT THIER INVERTERS! I have 40 inverters and solar panels, 39 are reporting correctly, 1 Enphase invert is NOT REPORTING, according to Enphase this means the there is a signal problem between the inverter and the Enphase Monitoring hard hardware SO IIS WORKING SO THEY WILL NOT REPLACE IT.... becuase it not the inverter but the hard report and I need to buy a new one for $600 vs them HONORING the Enphase Inverter... 1 out of 40 NOT REPORTING it is not the inverter

[@billycoyle5210]

SolarEdge does all that, lol.

[@elonslawsuit5004]

Clear, concise and professional overview, thanks Joe. Struggling to get this kind of info on this side of the pond unfortunately. FInding installers with a worthy reputation is proving more difficult than I anticipated. Lots of homeowner youtube channels advocating their systems but so few installers, the industry here should be embarrassed.

[@danejones4288]

People are almost religous in their conviction about which is better. The solar market will decide who will take the lead in marketshare. I'm going with Enphase because I think the company is just better run. Good vid Joe.

[@gregwhite5788]

Our company has installed hundreds of SolarEdge and a dozen or so of the Enphase system. Both systems are excellent but we and our customers prefer SolarEdge for the following reasons; 1. SE has an optional Level 2 EV charger built into the inverter 2. SE couriers materials and pays us to install for warranty replacement 3. Flexible design and easier to install 4. Slightly higher performance

[@gregwhite5788]

The 25 yr warranty extension still keeps the price of SE lower than Enphase

[@SolarSurge]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@roys4691]

BOOM! correct. Solaredge going straight DC to an EV is huge as there is NO conversion loss also, besides the plug and play compatibility. New Energy Bank is incredible to with 94.5% efficiency rate.

[@Haideraide]

I work for Enphase and the micro inverter system is extremely reliable and if any issues pop up on the micro inverter. It comes with a 25 year warranty so it can easily be replaced. I've helped many clients transferring from solar edge over to enphase lately it's a fantastic system.

[@grimgamerxd3817]

Is it worth investing in them now there stock went on sale

[@jordansutche9829]

I've been installing solar for 4 years now and Enphase is just not it. They are one step up from Tygo in my opinion. If you need mod level comms, go Solaredge (which I say begrudgingly). If not, go Fronius. As a lifelong electrician I have beef with the entire solar market because I swear on everything there's a handful of people that know what their talking about and the rest of the industry is just guessing. And when he said the OLD gen of Enphase was more reliable I knew right then this guy doesn't install shit and doesn't service systems either.

[@0786RICARDO]

It does come to reliability. You definitely have to go with one or the other, specially after the NEC requirements for rapid shutdown

[@woohooivan]

@@jordansutche9829 that’s interesting you recommended those products. I haven’t seen Fronius installed in 5 years. SMA barely makes an appearance. The market is all SE or Enphase.

[@Dreadlk]

Yep it's all marketing hype in this industry. Companies like Sol-Ark make systems that will do everything the Enphase does plus a bunch of other stuff and the price is much lower for a better system. Panel level monitoring is something you will tire of within a month, it's a gimmick! Then you have the Warranty boast. I guess it's supposed to match the typical grade A solar panel warranty. It's made to sound nice so that you feel like your whole system is covered for 25 years. Raise your had if you feel confident that Enphase will be around in 15 years.

[@solmarcurtiss]

The wiring is way more complicated with string inverters. Not only is each string still limited on modules, there is a send and a return line that needs to be kept track of. I'm a solar contractor who has installed about 100 systems, for context.

[@jixianglin6089]

Actually the warranty for the optimizer is 25 years just like Enphase microinverters. The 12 year warranty for the SolarEdge inverter comparing to the 5-year warranty of Enphase combiner box is still superior, not to mention is extendable to 25 years for roughly $230-$450.

[@robertsamson4610]

Great info as always Joe!

[@sunergyrenewablesystems7097]

SolarEdge's Warranty on the inverter can be upgraded to 20 or 25 years and their optimizers have a 25 year warranty out of the box. Enphase's 25 year warranty only covers labor for 2 years. Both brands have their good points and bad point. I have dealt with tech support from both brands and they both are great at standing behind their warranty. You really can't go wrong with either brand.

[@megasc0rcher]

enphase is garbage. had multiple microinverters die, and the installer tried to upcharge, had to search for another company that wasnt trying to rip me off on labor

[@PacoSS67]

I enter here hopping to see a test, with/without kind of shades ... Only a reading of each brochure pages.

[@hc8714]

I think enphase is one of those better but not much better solution that eventually lose out when the sector scaled and favor the cheaper but good enough solution and take all the market share.

[@TK-123]

Terrific, sensible explanation, thank you.

[@ChuckD59]

Another helpful video for the homeowner. Thanks Joe. I'm currently speccing a ~17kW system with batteries, and have been focused on the new REC Pure-R panels with Enphase MIs and Enphase batteries. Wanting to consider all my options I'd been wondering what these Optimizers were about and now I know. One factor to consider, as is our case, is the distance from the array to the service panel. I won't be able to roof-mount which is OK since I have enough land to comfortably ground-mount. The caveat though is there'll be about a 200' run in to the house. Knowing that AC transmits more efficiently than DC it would seem the Enphase MIs would be the way to go. Does that make sense? Thanks again.

[@tvbones]

Nice video! I would like to point out that the Enphase battery system (formerly called Encharge, and now called IQ Battery) has been available since mid-2020.. Joe says it will be available soon, but he may be confusing the renaming of the battery to the IQ Battery, with the availability of the battery system as a whole.

[@roys4691]

I bought the Encharge 10 batteries (beginning of this year) just a short time before they came out with the new thinner style. Enphase was totally behind the 8 ball until now as those older ones like I have stick out from the wall a good 14".

[@sonny_coates]

The one caveat I think you overlooked (pro-Enphase) is that the IQ8 micro inverter keeps electricity flowing even in the event of grid outage. It allows the home to form it’s own micro-grid. Solar edge is miles away from having that capability and it puts people who install their products at a glaring disadvantage.

[@Dreadlk]

Not really an accurate statement. You need the whole Ensemble package to make that work, it's just basically just creating power from the Encharge batteries and Ensemble then using an automatic transfer switch to disconnect the Gird. Once the battery Inverter has a Micro grid going then the IQ8's can continue to work. The thing is you don't even need IQ8's to do this, you can use IQ7s or IQ6 to do the same thing as the work is done by the very expensive Ensemble Unit and Encharge are what really what make this work. Now comes the interesting point, check out the price of this package, just make sure your sitting!

[@sonny_coates]

@@Dreadlk you actually don’t need storage at all- only the IQ8s the ATS/IQ Combiner. Of course, the system will stop generating when the sun goes down, but will re-engage as soon as the sun rises in the morning.

[@gregwhite5788]

@@sonny_coates As I am sure that you are aware all PV systems must initiate Rapid Shutdown during a power outage. Both systems can utilize an ATS and both can be tied into a battery and feed the house loads typically through a sub panel and a generator can also be integrated if need be. Great conversation, great input.

[@Dreadlk]

@@sonny_coates How on earth are you going to start a Microgrid without batteries to get it going. Inverters won't make power unless they see power to combine with. Even if they bypass the safety features of that how would this work? My panels are putting out 5KW of power and my house is running fine then a cloud passes over and the panes drop to 900W. Everything in the house would go off every time the power dipped if there was no battery backup.

[@JasonAndrade427]

Regarding all the comments below, some are partially accurate and some are off. The IQ8 micro inverters will be the first micro that can grid form (make power with a source signal/waveform) this will only be able to be activated when Enpower (System Controller) is installed with IQ8. The system will be able to support loads with out the use of a battery when the sun is out, barring that there is enough sun power to carry the loads. Also note that load shedding will be required when using this feature.

[@guywhoknows]

There two different techs, and one point is that one one is going to want to invert to AC and bring it back to DC for storage. So not a solution there. Those DC optimisers are a cute named buck converter. But if people didn't know there cheap and easy to make. I have toyed with the ideal of micro inverters and they're great if you want AC power just during sun hours or a reducer. (That what we call them at renewsolar.) As they can reduce your day time bills, but offer nothing at night. At £30 per unit, it could be worth having 2 or 4 panels running one for "direct power" and the rest on a battery for nigh use. I think solar has come a fair way in 13 years. Nice video.

[@keithbutler126]

Good none tech video, but I'd like to see a deep dive into the heart of both systems & their battery compatibility distinctions as well. For example can you D/C couple an Enphase system? 30% of my customers have communications issues with Enphase so I wouldn't say they're perfect. It's true that the earlier Sedge optimiser models back in say 2015 had issues, but since then their optimisers have gone though many generational changes. They wouldn't be offering a 25 year warranty if they weren't any good. I've had no issues from the thousands of P-Series optimisers I've sold over the last 3 years & now they're into the S-Series. I used to sell Enphase 9 times out 10, but now it's 8 for Solaredge & 2 Enphase. In Australia Solaredge can save a customer around $2k on a standard 6.6kW system. Big difference.

[@cheerksu]

Agreed Enphase ARE TRHE WORST.... Coming from and Enphase customer... I have had enphase inverters for 7 years and three to four fail every year and I have to pay to have them replaced even though they are under warrenty from Enphase and are replaced. BUT Enphase will FIGHT YOU EVERY STEP TO THAT IT IS NOT THIER INVERTERS! I have 40 inverters and solar panels, 39 are reporting correctly, 1 Enphase invert is NOT REPORTING, according to Enphase this means the there is a signal problem between the inverter and the Enphase Monitoring hard hardware SO IIS WORKING SO THEY WILL NOT REPLACE IT.... becuase it not the inverter but the hard report and I need to buy a new one for $600 vs them HONORING the Enphase Inverter... 1 out of 40 NOT REPORTING it is not the inverter

[@Mansahx]

Hey. Do you sell the DC optimizer itself? I’m shopping around for pricing. I only need the DC optimizer. Thx. Great info. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@NacNacMOTT]

When all the panels are installed on the same roof, facing the sun the same way. then OK, however if you have a small number of panels (3 to 5) on different surfaces ( eg 4 South, 4 West, 4 East). then with solaredge you still have the same problem of ensure you have enough power to kick start the inverter as all those 12 panels will not get light at the same time. In such configuration, I believe the µinverter is the only way that will provide the maximum efficiency.

[@yankabilly1963]

If you are charging a battery first before sending extra to the grid, solar edge would be better?

[@jesuschitala2649]

Titan!

[@lonnieharrison6380]

I would like to install backup battery sys. Can you help?

[@kjrchannel1480]

Cost wise the Enphase is like buying an optimizer and a portion of an inverter. With SolarEdge you buy the optimizer and a separate inverter. If you went with a Fronius you don't need an optimizer. So you save money. The biggest worry I have with inverters and the voltage handling hardware is. If it breaks and there is no warranty left or for some reason a company hangs you out to dry or goes out lf business then you will be set back years before you see a return on that purchase. Just like in Australia, eventually powers companies in the USA may limit the size of grid tie systems. They could also make it so you get nothing for net metering because they can't make a profit. In that regard solar energy will never be free. It would always be smarter to size a system that you can afford without taking credits into account unless you know you have the tax liability to justify it. I also see a greater number of DIY installs happen, or assisted DIY.

[@carrolllee6875]

enphase and Solaredge are to large to disappear. ITs not that they couldn't go belly up. Its that their tech is to well deployed that they would survive bankrupts and product remain on the market. That being said. if they did and the cost to remove and replace the optimizers and string inverter or microinverters is not so high as to be a insurmountable burden to an owner.

[@edwardstanley2195]

Excellent Joe, thanks. Can you recommend a good online course relative to solar technician training? thanks.

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, I recommend Solairgen: solairgen.com/pv201-online-design-and-installation/

[@joeprizzi407]

I m happy with my Solar Edge system overall, but I did have one optimizer fail after 3 years or so. SE was happy to provide a replacement to an installer, which was a pain, because I did the original install mostly myself. I still had to pay for labor, which was annoying. I could have done it myself. One other point is that since SE is a DC system, I wonder if it is easier to add DC vehicle charging that is more efficient than DC --> AC -->DC conversion. I think they even created a new inverter w solar EV charging, but I don't know any details. I chose SE because there was a window in time where Enphase was having reliability issues, and SE was more reliable. I am not sure what I would pick if I chose now.

[@patrickwang9137]

To answer your question about EV charging, no, SE does not have an advantage over Enphase system. The output voltage of a single power optimizer is only 60 V, which is not even close to what is required for EV charging. If you stack the units in series to get a higher voltage, you risk having one unit failing and disabling/lowering the efficiency of the whole system. If you convert DC -> DC -> AC -> DC to charge EV, which is what SE is likely going to do, it is not going to be more efficient thant micro-inverters.

[@roys4691]

You are far better off with the SE system. You will not only have an easier time with adding a EV charger for your EV, but will be far more efficient than the Enphase system. Every conversion has loss, 3% with Enphase micro inverters, then would need another conversion to get to car. in your system, straight DC all the way to the car, much better. You do need the Energy hub inverter for plug and play with the J1772 plug and cable, which is easily obtainable. If you do not have the Energy hub inverter, I honestly do not know if and how it connects. I won't sell any of my systems without the energy hub so it insures future compatibility for all of my customers.

[@acefr8816]

Most people charge their EV overnight when they go to bed. Your solar panel is not generating any power after sunset. Your power either comes from the house battery backup or more likely from the grid, so I don't think it matters it is SE or Enphase.

[@mitsokyd5553]

I have a partially shaded roof top and am using solar for total off-grid for my shop. I put solaredge optimizers on the panels to deal with the shade issues but want to connect them to a battery bank no grid connection and then to an MPPT converter then to "any brand inverter" for simple DC to AC conversion which runs my electric panel box for my shop. Can I do this with solaredge optimizers?

[@pg5797]

A few years back when I researched those companies, Solar Edge had a very bad reputation regarding customer support. Basically they weren't doing any. You had to deal with your installer, also the installer was deciding which software functions you had acces to. So 2 Solar Edge customers paying the same amount weren't necessary getting the same value. Furthermore, if your installer ran out of business, you were basically screwed. Did any of this change?

[@SolarSurge]

Hi PG and thanks for writing in. SolarEdge is generally good about sending replacement equipment in the event of a malfunction. However, you still need to make sure you partner with a good installer who is going to honor the labor warranty.

[@roys4691]

There is good information here, but very incomplete. I work for Titan Solar Power and our Solaredge Systems are warranted for 25 years parts AND labor on everything but batteries (ALL batteries are 10 year and at least 70% minimum at 10 years regardless of manufacturer and cycle amounts do vary), and is only a small cost upgrade not nearly as much as he is saying for upgrading the central inverter to a full 25 years instead of the 12 years it comes with initially with our company. Depending on the inverter it is between a little over 200 to less than 400. Not only our our panels Tier 1, Hurricane 5 rated, but they come with a 25 year production warranty as well of at least 86% or better depending on the panel. Now, lets go in to deeper depths between Enphase and Solaredge. I bought my Enphase system BEFORE starting my job with Titan and if I knew then what I know now I would have never bought Enphase. Let me explain. Enphase requires an Envoy and a Smart Switch which not only makes the system more complex and more parts, the warranties are worse, 5 years for the Envoy and 10 for the Smart Switch. Yes the Micro Inverters are 25 year warranted, but does NOT include the cost of labor to replace them when needed, and the same goes for the Envoy and Smart Switch. He doesn't mention this fact which is HUGE! Also, anytime there is a conversion there is power loss which is a 3% loss before even getting the power down off of the roof using the Micro Inverters. Enphase only recently acquired access to a power company that makes DC 1772 connections for an electric vehicle, which is another huge negative. Solaredge already has them, and with the Energy Hub Inverter it's plug and play. Enphase system converts power to AC on the roof, then back to DC at the battery (conversion loss X2), then back again to AC leaving the battery (TIMES 3) before your home can ever use it. In the Solaredge system, DC power goes straight from the roof to the electric car if you have one and the batteries without conversion so there is NO loss! Also with the Solaredge Energy Bank battery it is 94.5% efficient, stores and uses power far more effectively so it does more with less KW, and only one conversion from the battery to power the home. Now, on the bright side of Enphase, the Smart Switch does have a plug and play for a generator and is compatible with 4 Generac and 4 Kohler and 1 Briggs and Stratton which is a nice plus, and can use app to set at what point percentage batteries get to in order to kick on the generator and what percentage to turn it back off, so batteries never run dry, even if there is a total solar system failure. I am not putting this guy down, he does provide some excellent and valuable information, but leaving some extremely important things out that need to be stated. I live in Jacksonville Florida and can provide anyone in my area with a quote if you desire. Roy Shultz 904-708-6158, [e-mail]

[@lanceschaecher2460]

Efficiency comparison “With the SolarEdge system, you have two components to look at: the central inverter, which lists 99% efficiency, and the power optimizer, which lists 99.5% efficiency. The total system efficiency is these two numbers multiplied. [99.25%] The Enphase IQ 7 series is slightly worse at 97% efficiency, but this is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison. Even though SolarEdge’s power optimizers do help the system perform better in partial shade, microinverters are still a superior system when it comes to handling shade and complicated rooftop layouts. Because of this, the overall system efficiency of a microinverter-based system will still usually be a little better than one based on power optimizers.” www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/enphase-vs-solaredge/

[@lanceschaecher2460]

[Vendor warranties can and often are supplemented by your solar system installer partner, and bankability of installer matters for future service] Workmanship warranties for my solar partner (using Enphase microinverters): 25 Year Labor Guarantee; 25 Year Roof Penetration Guarantee; 25 Year Solar System Power Production Guarantee; 25 Year Module Performance Guarantee; 25 Year Enphase Microinverter Guarantee

[@WebbedPete]

@@lanceschaecher2460 Do you extend the (required) Combiner warranty to 25 years? It's only 5 years standard. ONLY the Microinverters have a 25 year warranty. All other Enphase modules are down in the 5 year range.

[@surenbono6063]

..what about a DCDC buck boost converter in-between Panels and the inverter ... Which would regulate a stable Voltage no matter what the condition is between 10-60DCV to let say a 36DCV and a variable Amperage instead to feed to an inverter/charge controller in parallel..?.. this way you can apply it to a mixed system

[@noahcalderon7751]

Failure rate so high with Solaredge tho… so much service work created

[@taniksambo1969]

It's free to discount solar solution for home?

[@Raypatrick66]

You still have 25 different problems and or 25 things to go wrong

[@anzman911]

Can you run both systems simultaneous on on-grid PV?

[@cyberoptic5757]

I'm getting fatigued of the notion of declining costs of equipment. Here's why: when the cost of equipment declines, the decline doesn't reach the consumer purchasing the equipment. When a business notices declining costs and steady demand, they just pocket the difference without reducing the sell prices.

[@westcoaststacker569]

It has been the equipment is upgraded, and the old inexpensive equipment is now "obsolete". Sadly also with code changed the inexpensive equipment has become non useable. Same with phones and TVs once the price meets a minimum they have to add more unnecessary features or change frequencies 2g, 3g etc... so that they can charge more for the new "superior" device.

[@anastigmatix4119]

Just get a 5kw all-in-one MMPT inverter, or larger, and hook up your panels. You don't need either of these items.

[@pegasisilver6249]

As i understand it??? The Enphase micro inverters cut off producing electricity, if the connection doesnt contain electricity? (this to secure that workers on cable doesnt get shocked from your production). So, if you in the future chooses to go off grid with future battery tech, are you able to back feed the micro´s in order to keep them working even if there´s no real feed from the grid?

[@wojciechstyczynski1354]

Hi If Enphase is similar to our APSystem or Hoymiles in Europe, SolarEdge is not the same in terms of performance. We see 4W production during the night from single panel if you have street light right over panel. Microinverters start production from literally 1W from 1 panel. String inverters need little more. than 1 panel to get right string voltage.

[@roys4691]

Correct sir, the Enphase do produce power sooner in the AM and longer in the PM, but DC to main inverter on Solaredge has less loss which negates the gain. There is a 3% loss converting to AC on the roof right off the bat. This situation actually makes the Solaredge a better producer overall. With each and every conversion there is loss.

[@robertkaras6315]

mamy APSystem in US i Canada ale byl tylko na commercial wczesniej. Zero gwarancji i pomocy dla DIY.

[@timworden4483]

What one would you use for 440 watt panels? What I have seen is that Enphase IQ 7A has an output of 349 VA. What is the output for the SolarEdge unit?

[@solarhiveio3311]

600 v per string

[@polarbearigloo]

Great video love the shirt went with enphase since tesla AI program failed to make a design on my townhouse. 4 trys with a project manager and he said his hands were tied.

[@lonnieharrison6380]

I have a solar system from a company no longer in business. Now I have problems and not happy with my system. Can you help?

[@PNWLiving1725]

Hi, I have the enphase iq8. And I have an automatic switch, with natural gas generator. Is it easy to upgrade to enphase battery system/smart switch, and would that count for the 30 percent tax break? Just batteries/smart switch? To work with my enphase system

[@redmatrix]

2023 Updated video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2KZl2CAqshkm6c

[@boudewijndejong9134]

The Solar Edge system supports a connected EV charger (so I only charge when I have a surplus of power) and can communicate in SunSpec with e.g. heatpumps and other equipment to maximize the use of my own power. Do you know if Enphase has similar possibilities, as I am not able to find that.

[@roys4691]

Enphase recently acquired access to EV charging with another company that I can't remember the name of at the moment, but Solaredge is far better as it's straight DC to the car without conversion, so without loss. Way better in my opinion.

[@brasherish]

I have two strings and one panel within one of the string is shaded, can I install an enphase dc optimizer on just those panels which are in the shade?

[@Snerdles]

Do you have any experience or ideas on All in One systems like the Fox ESS that can have up to 10kwh of battery in the same enclosure?

[@SolarSurge]

No I'm not familiar with that one. There are lots of new companies and new batteries coming onto the market now. I like to see a track record of 1-3 years solid performance before recommending a new brand. SolarEdge and Enphase are both tried and true.

[@corystansbury]

How do the microinverters handle inductive loads and VFDs. I bought a Honda EU6500 to get the "very best," then it got in a fight with my well pump VFD and fried a bunch of stuff in my house in about 3 seconds. So "inverters aren't inverters," even from reputable brands (BTW, my Briggs Q6500 was fine, just slightly underpowered for my needs).

[@danmitchell1143]

I recently purchased a Ecoflow Delta Pro Power Station and wondering if I install solar can I use the device for backup power using solar? Thanks for all the great videos… learning a lot.

[@tyronemedina1716]

Any recommendations for off grid system? I am located in Puerto Rico.

[@SolarSurge]

I like Outback Radian for off-grid. Please see my video on this topic.

[@pawpawworld]

Does the Enphase or solar edge have a capacity on the number of panels that you can install on your roof?

[@westcoaststacker569]

Solaredge would have a minimum of 6 I believe while Enphase would be 1. Both systems could be expanded to any size the Utility could handle I believe.

[@kriis79fr24]

Hi Joe. Any idea about the price for a Solaredge "Energy Bank Battery" ? Thanks

[@woohooivan]

It will most likely fall in range with the LG RESU line . My guess is 12-14k for the 10kWh installed and 15-17k for the 16kWh installed.

[@SolarSurge]

Yep that's pretty much spot on.

[@arleneallen8809]

What do you recommend to customers who have zero shading issues from sunup to sundown? Traditional series/parallel wiring to central inverter? One other criterion is the use of cloud services. I want the software for intensive monitoring and historical logging but it must all be processed locally. The layers of dependencies that we create with remote processing are incredibly fragile.

[@0786RICARDO]

If you can and have the space, build a ground mount system with a string inverter in the vicinities of the ground mount. It's the best way to do it. If you install them in your house, the NEC code requires one of these 2.

[@jorahgarrison2594]

If you get storage as well, the equipment that comes installed provides its own wifi network. Which will always be active as the system is producing or storing energy, thus always being able to update your app with quantitative data. The equipment is paired to your router to be able to receive and send information to Tesla pertaining updates and site info.

[@Thorsten_Wiegand]

@@0786RICARDO Is this really true? You aren´t allowed to build a PV-system on your buildings roof with a normal string inverter anymore? Here in Germany >90% of all PV-Systems on the buildings use String Inverters. The rest are SolarEdge Systems for Roofs with shading issues or the need for module level monitoring. Microinverters were never a thing until recently and are nowadays used for MicroPV Systems with a maximum capacity of 600W Inverter Power. (You can build this small systems with 2 panels since 2021 without a permit - mostly mounted on a balcony - hence the German name: Balkonkraftwerk - balcony power plant)

[@0786RICARDO]

@@Thorsten_Wiegand Is not compliant to be mounted in a building that wasn't build for the sole purpose of supporting the solar panels; if the system doesn't have a listed rapid shutdown device. They're still building them without rapid shutdown devices, given the jurisdiction accepts it. Also, there is a Voltage range for when this is required and some other exceptions, but most PV system don't enter in this exceptions. That's just what the NEC requires. Makes a bit of sense for buildings on fire, you definitely don't wanna have 400V that can't be shutdown just waiting to be hacked.

[@Thorsten_Wiegand]

@@0786RICARDO : In Germany Strings can have up to 1200V. (But most are ~800V DC). There also is no requirement for a rapid shutdown solution, only a DC Switch on the inverter. Do you know why that is? It´s because that voltage is DC-Voltage. A DC-Current does NOT react against ground like an AC-Current. You can touch a DC-wire without any risk. To get shocked you need to touch the + and - wire at the same time with different parts of your body. That said, it still isn´t 100% risk free and so our firefighters are trained for such a case, when a building with PV-Modules is on fire.

[@WebbedPete]

Another key difference: you can have a full 25 year warranty on the entire SolarEdge system. BUT KEY WARRANTY FACT: Enphase power goes through a "Combiner" with only a five year warranty. BTW, SolarEdge has its Energy Meter with full Import/Export.

[@tedlawrence1348]

In my opinion the Solar Edge Inverter mounted on the outside of a house is not as clean looking installation. The Enphase combiner box looks to be clean and neat. Also, wondering if the WiFi interface is incorporated within the Solar Edge inverter? The Enphase combiner box has network WiFi within the design.

[@WebbedPete]

Clean and neat... all depends on how it's installed :) SolarEdge has a wide variety of communication options, as well as compatibility with many other protocols for monitoring, environmental sensors etc. Ranges from WiFi to Ethernet to Modbus (an industrial protocol mostly) In these days of rapidly changing tech standards, it helps to be compatible with generic standards behind the scenes. For example: Wifi is now up to "Wifi 6"... and the earliest wifi protocols need to be disabled because they are not secure and harm network performance. So I want to be able to occasionally update such things. This is a costly box... I sure hope I don't have to replace a big chunk of my solar tech every time we go through a networking update! :)

[@Anunaki2004]

Hey Joe. I noticed in your last two video comparisons. You didn't have Tesla in it; why not?

[@SolarSurge]

Tesla is out of fashion at the moment. The wait time to get new Tesla batteries is 8+ months so we are not offering them at this time.

[@johnl3239]

We installed a Solar Edge Hub inverter system on our home a couple of months ago. The monitoring system, whether viewed on the phone or computer has never accurately represented what's actually going on with our system. For instance, previously we consumed about 13 - 14 KWH of energy per day before our solar installation. The Solar Edge monitoring system shows our consumption up around 50 - 60 KWH per day with no energy being exported to the grid. The PG&E website for our home shows that we exported over 1 MWH to the grid in July, so we are obviously exporting to PG&E. The app also shows that we are also importing more energy from the grid than we did before the installation. Other parameters shown by the Solar Edge are also incorrect. I've spoken with tech support (or tried to thru some heavy accents) to no avail. I suspect this problem may only relate to the newer "Hub" inverters. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?

[@WebbedPete]

Most likely your CT's (Current Transformers) were installed backwards LOL. Thus your Energy Meter will have very bad data. That's an installer issue. Simple test: at night, look at the power import/export numbers. Obviously you should be pulling power from the grid. Is that what it shows? And as the day starts, your power production should grow -- without changing your consumption -- until it starts to be exported to the grid. If those graphs look strange, your installer messed up.

[@Wdbx831]

My solar edge inverter (purchased in 2019) just failed a few days ago. They are shipping directly to my house. It's up to me on how to get it installed. I am now down fully in power production. Solar Edge said it's likely a failed capacitor. These are not your run of the mill capacitor. They are rated at 700 v. Hope Solar Edge didn't lie in saying it should take no longer than 10 days. I would go with enphase if I had to do it over again.

[@WebbedPete]

Enphase all runs through a Combiner with a five year warranty. Those too can fail. My question is always: how do they handle failures... NOT "will it never fail" ;)

[@Wdbx831]

@@WebbedPete solar edge sent a new inverter. It took 47 days from time of replacement submission. They advertise a 1 week turnaround on the website. The new unit lacks the built in display feature. Kinda miss being able to see panel power generation just by glancing over at the unit. Now you have to use the phone and connect via Bluetooth to check performance.

[@WebbedPete]

@@Wdbx831 have you tried the monitoring app? It is truly wonderful. Far more informative than a number on an LED screen 😏

[@Just_An_Idea_For_Consideration]

Curiosity: If use enphase, power in wiring space arrives as AC power, wouldn’t you then need to convert to DC to store it in batteries??? What does the wiring space look like using enphase vs solaredge? Also are there other alternatives to get per panel monitoring? If yes, what alternatives exist for consideration?

[@SolarSurge]

Hi JK and thanks for writing in. These are the top 2 system for panel-level monitoring and I would not recommend any others. For Enphase wiring, you can use normal house AC wiring, which is usually Romex. SolarEdge uses high-voltage DC coming from the roof to the ground so the wiring must be done in a metal conduit. The AC voltage is considered more safe.

[@Just_An_Idea_For_Consideration]

So when the romex is landed in wiring space, does it go directly into the breaker box, or is there another type box to use?

[@SolarSurge]

@@Just_An_Idea_For_Consideration All the micro-inverter circuits will come into the Enphase IQ combiner box first. store.enphase.com/storefront/en-us/combiner-3-es

[@roys4691]

On the Enphase batteries, the conversion is done directly at the battery. There are 4 IQ 8's on each 3.4k battery that handle AC to DC and DC to AC leaving the battery.

[@NHCharger]

I have been researching both types of systems, one question. Each solar panel can produce 400 watts of power, the enphase microinverters have a max output 300 (290 continuous). Doesn't that mean you would need to have 25% more panels in a microinverter system to match the power output of an optimizer system?

[@prajakt0789]

No option other than string inverter for high power output panels.

[@rss608]

I have had a 7600watt solar edge system for 3.5 years. it has worked perfectly.... what he does not mention is that if the solar edge module is stolen it is worthless with out the inverter, while the endphase unit can be used with out an inverter so is more subject to theft.

[@keithbutler126]

I'd say you'd have more chance of being struck by lighting than having your solar stolen off your roof.

[@rss608]

@@keithbutler126 unless it is a ground mount.

[@keithbutler126]

@@rss608 Hahaha OK ya got me there.

[@WebbedPete]

Enphase requires a Combiner. If someone steals your system, you have a problem period. At least they are *registered* with the manufacturer. Not sure it would be easy for someone else to use that equipment! It phones home all day with monitoring data ;)

[@StatmanRN]

Isn't the Enphase combiner also a single point of failure? And if I understand correctly only 5 yr warranty? Also, I fail to see the advantage of the power optimizer if shading isn't an issue

[@SolarSurge]

In theory, yes the Enphase combiner is a central point of failure if it were physically damaged. However, the combiner is just a circuit breaker panel with no micro-electronics. So, in terms of likelihood of failure, the odds are very low. About the same as your home's circuit breaker panel failing.

[@DoJoe.]

Love the deep dive. Quick question : if you were investing in stocks for the next 5 yrs which one would u go with?

[@thesuccessfulmind7180]

enph. all the way

[@acefr8816]

On Solar Edge Optimizer, if one Optimizer, will the whole string goes down? Or it has the ability to bypass the failed Optimizer?

[@SolarSurge]

That’s a great question. Depends on the type of the failure. Some can take down the entire string.

[@emmgeevideo]

My guess is that large system installers don’t prefer SolarEdge because it is less expensive to install, they prefer it because they get better margins. Joe’s statement at the end says it all to me: if you top up the SolarEdge to 25 years, the two are basically cost-equivalent to the consumer. If reliability is now equivalent then why not pick the brand that has better app and other higher-end features?

[@woohooivan]

SolarEdge is absolutely the lower costing option. Enphase doesn’t have anything wrong with it other than it’s slightly more expensive. Whereas SolarEdge has high failure rates (compared to enphase) and they require an upgraded inverter to add a battery. Enphase does not require a hardware switch out to connect a battery. Lastly, Enphase is light years ahead in terms of battery chemistry and warranty. 15 years? That’s a very nice guarantee.

[@CC-mj3zq]

You could argue in favor of either really. It's good to have options and some folks seem to prefer a single point of failure and some see it the other way.

[@SolarSurge]

Our approach is more about variety and helping homeowners make an informed decision. We happy to deliver either of these solutions.

[@alexsoares9892]

@@CC-mj3zq optimizers are points of failure

[@SuperSrjones]

I retired and installed a large Enphase system as i do not want a low initial / cost higher failure rate, plus my yard is shaded by neighbours trees which i cannot cut down. In a suburb you never know what idiot is going to plant a tree that shades your roof. I also want an Enphase battery when they come on line. PS my supplier told me that Tesla use their highest quality 18650 batteries for their cars and lower performing ones go in Powerwalls. And I want LI PO not LI Ion

[@droneworks6340]

Most installers in our area will no longer install solar edge at all. Too many issues and problems

[@SolarSurge]

Yes, I am seeing this with many of my installers also.

[@casperwormgoor1413]

My supplier quotes me an additional price of 158 euro per micro inverter emphase per penal compared to the serial solution with one central inverter ending up with an extra 4400 euro. Is this a fair offer .

[@SolarSurge]

Yes that sounds correct

[@MrGoogle87]

Read up information about (for example) SMA OptiTrack… Even these series inverters can do really well with some shadow, especially with halfcel panels. But: SolarEdge is hands doen better then Enphase

[@SolarSurge]

SMA makes good products, but we find that most homeowners want the module-level monitoring on the app.

[@jamisonmunn9215]

If your system is mostly not shaded is it wise to just string as in the old days? I am just wondering is the DC optimizer worth the cost if your system is built in an area with almost no shade?

[@acefr8816]

Shade is just one example. The traditional string inverter can only work to the weakest panel output in the string, so if you have 1 panel fails, your entire string will output zero. Same limitation if one panel gets dirty (e.g. birds poop on it) and your entire string will output to the same lowered output of that panel.

[@jamisonmunn9215]

@@acefr8816 i still haven't been able to figure if it justifies the extra cost though?

[@acefr8816]

@@jamisonmunn9215 It is a nice addon to improve efficiency, but you don't have to get it. The worst is when your solar system is down, you rely on the grid to provide power.

[@dannywitz]

Neat video, Enphase rooftop wiring is much EASIER than Solaredge or others, no need to calculate quantity of minimum AND maximum solar panels per string to resolve minimum PV start and maximum over-voltage scenarios that need to be reviewed carefully for the weather etc at a given site! Once you identify the correct microinverter for a given solar panel you just limit the maximum microinverters to the amps the wiring can handle, once you exceed that number add an AC branch circuit, it’s simple. Others have far more calculations to deal with. The quality and reliability therefore value are NOT equal SolarEdge failure rates are very high (look at their public information!) once you add the additional warranty cost to Solaredge this would typically make Solaredge more expensive or equal… and if you consider lost energy production and added service costs to Solaredge Enphase wins. An odd item is that it appears that SolarEdge efficiency measurements do not include losses by the power optimizers! (Can you increase or decrease DC voltage with no power losses etc? There’s a reason a number of optimizers fail their electronics can get hot!) Factor this in and Enphase wins. It’s hard to beat an all microinverter architecture especially when you value the longevity and added capabilities of AC coupled systems.

[@WebbedPete]

SolarEdge failure rates have dropped precipitously. And Enphase doesn't offer more than a five year warranty on the (required) Combiner. AFAIK the real difference is DC vs AC on the rooftop... and the fact that my entire SolarEdge (plus LG panels) system has a 25 year warranty. Too funny: what's the difference between ensuring you don't have too many Power Inverters per string... vs too many Micro Inverters per string! It's not that big a deal. ;)

[@JohnSmith-ld2mc]

Making a decision this week on solar. Is the extended warranty worth the cost/piece of mind on the solaredge inverter?

[@goldenages7089]

no. Extended warranties are never worth more than what you pay for them. In other words you are paying upfront for future failures.

[@mattbrew11]

Not sure what part of the country you’re in but make the installer eat the extended warranty cost. We do that as a standard practice

[@woohooivan]

Tell them to include the 25 year warranty. You do not want to be out of a warranty with a 1000-3000 dollar inverter (not including labor). That would chew up a massive chunk of your savings and spoil your ROI.

[@SolarSurge]

Hi John. Let us know if you need a comparison quote. I would recommend Enphase with 25-year warranty standard. We would be happy to provide pricing right away based on your target system size.

[@longtimber1]

Multiple Studies report that MLE "Module Level Electronics" is a barrier to the DOE's Sunshot Goals of a $1 per watt for Resi. The additional connections lower reliability and harvest over the system life. The risk from falling from servicing under module computers is higher than any safety gain. String voltages are lower now with multi MPPT inputs. NEIN DANKE to the nightmare of MLE's. !

[@tonykelpie]

A price difference of 10 cents per watt is 100 dollars per kW?

[@udishomer5852]

Yes. And $1,000 for a 10 kW system.

[@micropower9742]

DOE says "MLE" Module Level Electronics has set back the Sunshot goal of a $1.00 watt for Residential Installs. Strings make more Power in 90% of installs. MLE >>> UTILITY 10 CONSUMER 0

[@conglin6965]

We all know that neither emphase microinverter nor the SolarEdge optimizer are making any difference for shades setup. So why spend 30% more for nothing?

[@loucurto319]

Enphase is far less problematic. At this stage in the solar game if you are using anything other than enphase then you are using obsolete equipment. Owning a solar company in Florida with close to 4000 installations under my belt I would say the majority of my warranty work is from fixing faulty solar edge inverters.

[@keithbutler126]

30% of my customers have communications issues with Enphase so I wouldn't say they're perfect. It's true that the earlier Sedge optimiser models back in say 2015 had issues, but since then the optimisers have gone though many generations of changes. They wouldn't be offering a 25 year warranty if they weren't any good. I've had no issues from the thousands of P-Series optimisers I've sold over the last 3 years & now they're into the S-Series. I used to sell Enphase 9 times out 10 now it's 8 for Solaredge & 2 Enphase. In Australia Solaredge can save a customer around $2k on a standard 6.6kW system. Big difference.

[@veeerzes]

@@keithbutler126 Running 11Kw of Solaredge for 6 years now, never had an optimizer or inverter failed.

[@keithbutler126]

@@veeerzes Well done!

[@WebbedPete]

Sounds like faulty OLD inverters. Presumably under warranty ;)

[@prajakt0789]

They clip energy for 550+ watt panels.

[@ABC-wz2db]

No mention of sunlight backup from Enphase. Or did I miss it?

[@SolarSurge]

Stay tuned. We have another video posting next week comparing SolarEdge and Enphase backup power head-to-head.

[@juansimon9605]

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