Solid, a puzzle ring - Why did this puzzle get so many YouTube views?

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OskarPuzzle

OskarPuzzle

8 жыл бұрын

More OskarPuzzle at kzbin.info?s.... Buy at puzzleringmaker.com/index.php?.... Solid is a puzzle ring, designed and made by Puzzle Ring Maker Jeff Bell, a.k.a. Vardan. Oskar's contribution was the design of an accurate CAD model of the ring which includes slanted walls between the rings, so the ring can be taken apart. What makes this puzzle ring special is its solid design (hence its name). The ring is made of silver. It was cast-off from a Shapeways 3D-printed original made of the frosted extreme detail material, which is perfectly suited for this purpose.
Copyright (c) 2015, Jeff Bell & M. Oskar van Deventer.
Frequently Asked Question: oskarvandeventer.nl/FAQ.html
Buy mass-produced Oskar puzzles at www.puzzlemaster.ca/browse/oskar/ (USA, CA) and www.sloyd.fi/oskar-deventer-c-... (EU)
Buy exclusive 3D-printed Oskar puzzles at shapeways.com/shops/oskarpuzzles

Пікірлер: 361
@dovahheimiik2580
@dovahheimiik2580 7 жыл бұрын
The effect was achieved through treating and finishing the rings differently. The simplest way to achieve that difference is to polish and clean them using different methods to acquire slightly different textures. A rougher finish will give the matte look, while a smooth-polished finish will provide a clean, mirror-like shine. I have a large amount of interest in metalworking, especially classical blacksmithing.
@chriswedemann8599
@chriswedemann8599 7 жыл бұрын
Can you say, "Hit the nail on the head"?
@tonyd6853
@tonyd6853 7 жыл бұрын
This is something every one would like! A finely engineered piece of jewelry that appeals to the mind as much as the eye, created by a friendly and curious engineer with a familiar accent. Brilliant!
@Hallofang
@Hallofang 7 жыл бұрын
....This is what I get for looking at all the Riddler's riddles from gotham ALL THE PUZZLE VIDEOS IN RECOMMENDED AGHHH
@_lol69_17
@_lol69_17 7 жыл бұрын
Hallofang lol
@guddie92
@guddie92 7 жыл бұрын
mathijs jonker aWw
@samre3006
@samre3006 3 жыл бұрын
I laughed hard on this comment. I have the same feeling these days with KZbin algorithms recommendations.
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 9 жыл бұрын
See puzzleringmaker.com/index.php for more great puzzle rings by Jeff Bell.
@INnOUT17
@INnOUT17 8 жыл бұрын
+OskarPuzzle tony fisher stole ur 17x17!
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 8 жыл бұрын
+Maier Stacks I have no clue what you are talking about, now what your remark has to do with this puzzle ring.
@Ebidle
@Ebidle 8 жыл бұрын
+OskarPuzzle you sprayed matte finish on the matte ones and sprayed gloss finish on the glossy ones
@electro4454
@electro4454 8 жыл бұрын
+OskarPuzzle Ik hoor dat je normaal Nederlands praat maar wel leuke video ga door. : )
@davidsmilburn
@davidsmilburn 8 жыл бұрын
Is the difference in finish a result of the orientation of manufacture when 3d printing?
@TheMythicalAce
@TheMythicalAce 8 жыл бұрын
I'm buying one of these for sure, I love how it looks and the solid design sells it.
@TonyStark-bd7lw
@TonyStark-bd7lw 6 жыл бұрын
How to buy this
@BogdanAndreiRO
@BogdanAndreiRO 6 жыл бұрын
Rajesh Rahul it's expensive
@markmcintosh2276
@markmcintosh2276 5 жыл бұрын
Everett Tech it’s not that expensive. 60 dollars is all! Just ordered one myself. puzzleringmaker.com/index.php?ref=item&id=44
@IntergalacticSpaceKitten
@IntergalacticSpaceKitten 2 жыл бұрын
So seamless and beautiful and so well thought out too.
@Freaksnake
@Freaksnake 7 жыл бұрын
I saw one of these forty years ago and it blew my little baby mind. Thanks Oskar for finding one!!
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
Puzzle rings have existed for ages. But there is still innovation happening, including this recent one.
@stolenzephyr
@stolenzephyr 7 жыл бұрын
This is so cool! Love it!
@Draftsman_MC1300
@Draftsman_MC1300 7 жыл бұрын
To answer the question, quite simply it is the way they were polished. The ones with a shiny finish has a higher level polish than the other two do.
@softrockification
@softrockification 8 жыл бұрын
The texture is different. The shiny one has been polished.
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 8 жыл бұрын
+softrockification Well noticed! All rings were sandblasted after casting. After that, two of them were polished.
@robopoet
@robopoet 8 жыл бұрын
+OskarPuzzle Awesome. This should sell huge. You don't have to be a puzzle geek to appreciate it.
@bloopdog5167
@bloopdog5167 8 жыл бұрын
+OskarPuzzle I have question would a 9×9×9 Fisher cube be possible if so let me know because I tried moyu and yuxin but im not sure who to ask to help me make it and fund it thanks~ william
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 8 жыл бұрын
+Wcuber Why don't you build it yourself? Or ask Tony Fisher?
@halfpunkxd6352
@halfpunkxd6352 7 жыл бұрын
Zhanchi i dont know the english term But i think its something WE in germany call galvanisierung
@adambrickhill185
@adambrickhill185 7 жыл бұрын
Polished finish - buffing wheel Satin or "brushed" finish - scouring pad or wheel, or fine steel wool (I think everyone else has shares in sandblasting companies) Awesome ring, I'm definitely getting one 8)
@compactc9
@compactc9 8 жыл бұрын
Some of the rings were polished to a shine, some brushed and left a more rough finish that gives it that more "satin" finish as I've heard it described.
@rav_6602
@rav_6602 7 жыл бұрын
The outside ring has been finely polished, where as the inside ones have not, and were left, giving it a "rough" appearance.
@NonTwinBrothers
@NonTwinBrothers 2 жыл бұрын
I love how he added that to the title, lmao
@Dornatum
@Dornatum 7 жыл бұрын
This ring looks really cool
@zacharoninoodle
@zacharoninoodle 7 жыл бұрын
It has to do with the composition of the surface. The shiny ones are smooth and polished, while the matte rings have divets or are rougher and less shiny
@fidelio6311
@fidelio6311 7 жыл бұрын
this isn't a puzzle ring. this is just the best wedding ring ever. the world just doesn't know it yet.
@cherinuchell4578
@cherinuchell4578 7 жыл бұрын
they polish the rings, then tape off the 2 they want polished, then blast it and remove the protective covering. the unprotected area gets a rough matte feel, and the protected area is still polished and shiny. this is actially pretty common in jewelry where they only burnish, or blast certain parts to give the piece depth and contrast.
@invadervim9037
@invadervim9037 7 жыл бұрын
Your pleasant and charming nature has won you over another subscriber.
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
Welcome!
@Jackcabbit
@Jackcabbit 8 жыл бұрын
This is one of the jewelry pieces I would seriously consider and the price actually seems quite reasonable compared to other standard jewelry. Well done to both you and Vardan!
@ArcAiN6
@ArcAiN6 7 жыл бұрын
The shiny rings have been polished with polishing compound, the matte rings have been either acid etched, or blasted with fine particulates.
@Macadan3
@Macadan3 8 жыл бұрын
I think the answer to your question is by silver plating: - two rings acts as anode (+) - two rings acts as cathode ( - ) Since both electrodes are made of silver, silver ions are going to transfer from one silver electrode to the other without color alteration. So, the rings which receive Ag+ ions will look like if it were polished, the other silver rings electrode (which lose Ag+) is going to look like if it were brushed. Of course, you have to setup both anode and cathode rings in such a way that they don't touch each other...
@tictactoe325
@tictactoe325 7 жыл бұрын
Love this
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@emilybean1536
@emilybean1536 7 жыл бұрын
This is actually pretty cool
@brendanbush2174
@brendanbush2174 8 жыл бұрын
I'm going to say sand blasted, I got one of my silver rings sand blaster, personally I like the foggy look better than shiny.
@lovecastle7154
@lovecastle7154 8 жыл бұрын
It's beautiful
@moonlightshadowpony
@moonlightshadowpony 7 жыл бұрын
the answer is the same as if you asked "why is it that when i polish this wood it looks nice and shiney but if i use my sander on it then it looks all dull?" its because the different rings were handled differently, either by a sander or by a polisher depending on how it looked when it was printed.
@gopalnathgoswami9138
@gopalnathgoswami9138 4 жыл бұрын
Superb
@davidkendrick5192
@davidkendrick5192 8 жыл бұрын
Shiny = mirror polish smooth; matte = finely sanded (slightly rough) surface? I really appreciate your videos, Oskar. They are really interesting.
7 жыл бұрын
This is amazing. If there was a small crystal in it with information on it that you could only get if you solved the puzzle, it would be a movie-like hiding place for something very important and nobody would suspect it.
@ThePamastymui
@ThePamastymui 2 жыл бұрын
A message engraved on the inner walls of the rings: "We are trying to reach you to talk about your rings' extended warranty."
@kajoel
@kajoel 8 жыл бұрын
It's a difference in the finish of the rings. The shiny ones have been polished while the other two haven't.
@silentferret1049
@silentferret1049 7 жыл бұрын
They probably used two different alloys with silver. They both can be considered as silver and have a very small percent as other and that can give the rings two different finishes when polished. Most of the times when they use silver and gold in jewelry, they will use an alloyed version of gold and silver to increase strength or to get a certain finish to stay on the item.
@TrisquelXIII
@TrisquelXIII 8 жыл бұрын
I love this puzzle, and it looks amazing. Unfortunately it costs about $70, but it is a perfect puzzle for Rubik's cubes and rings lovers like me. Like always, good job!
@kaimonington
@kaimonington 8 жыл бұрын
+TrisquelXIII For something which isn't only a puzzle, but a really good looking ring, I think that's a pretty fitting price!
@marvin135
@marvin135 7 жыл бұрын
In our glasdor was used to the accompaniment of hydrofluoric acid in order to make the upper patch in some places to make the matte look at some places.
@ilsekuppers8934
@ilsekuppers8934 8 жыл бұрын
dat is wel een mooi dingetje zeg
@garyschraa7947
@garyschraa7947 6 жыл бұрын
dank je wel
@futaim__alali
@futaim__alali 7 жыл бұрын
"I don't like puzzle rings too complicated".. and waallllaaahh .. the puzzle ring is actually complicated 🐒!
@Jinjin000w
@Jinjin000w 7 жыл бұрын
Polish all the rings beforehand, use masking tape or the liquid type to protect the rings you don't want matte, then bead blast the ones you want matte. If you bead blast all then polish the two you'll probably end up with a fit that's not as snug.
@croxey2378
@croxey2378 7 жыл бұрын
the reflective is polished, and the other one is sanded, try it out with a fine water sand paper on the shiny parts
@iaabmahts5391
@iaabmahts5391 6 жыл бұрын
amazing
@manacrack144
@manacrack144 7 жыл бұрын
Does this remind anyone of the dwarven thing from the Eragon series?
@joels.2672
@joels.2672 6 жыл бұрын
Glad to see another person who noticed that!!
@jacobeverman3432
@jacobeverman3432 6 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing, and it looks like Orik's ring
@gabeakome6968
@gabeakome6968 3 жыл бұрын
Factsssss
@dracomenda2
@dracomenda2 8 жыл бұрын
there is actually 2 ways to achieve the 2 different finishes, 1 is by finishing the silver differently, which will usually wear off, the other is by cast texturing, using a metal dust of an extremely fine grain and a much higher melting point, which is more expensive and time consuming but that lasts for the life of the ring.
@dewedg2752
@dewedg2752 7 жыл бұрын
The shiny ones are polished
@dnationapocalypse
@dnationapocalypse 6 жыл бұрын
Dewed G Naw really?! 😒
@DanielConstantinoS
@DanielConstantinoS 2 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see the manufacturing of this piece! Are they cast one by one? :O
@leemaples1806
@leemaples1806 6 жыл бұрын
4-band puzzle rings are easy to put together (togetter). The tougher ones are 6-banded type. I have a 6-band in gold thats fairly difficult even when you know how its suppose to be put back together.
@FreeMusicDownloaderAllMusic
@FreeMusicDownloaderAllMusic 7 жыл бұрын
Very Good Partner;)
@W1ldP0rkz
@W1ldP0rkz 7 жыл бұрын
Een simpel antwoord op de vraag. De glimmende ringen zijn anders afgewerkt dan de matte ringen. Om het te laten glimmen polijst je het, en om het mat te maken laat je het "zandstralen" Dit zorgt ervoor dat het oppervlak allemaal kleine deukjes en kuiltjes krijgt, wat het licht breekt dat erop valt en het dus niet meer zal glimmen/spiegelen.
@eckhart5443
@eckhart5443 8 жыл бұрын
I just disabled adblock to support some youtubers and well.... The ad was non skippable and longer than your video :'( But I would do it again. Great ring, probably gonna pick one up!
@tdogtexan3445
@tdogtexan3445 7 жыл бұрын
either you polished the Rings on the outside to make them shiny which is not hard to do but I know that are also several functions you can do on 3D printing
@dlrcreator6265
@dlrcreator6265 8 жыл бұрын
The rings are formed, from what ever material is desired, such as gold or silver. They are rolled out from wire... Or as you say 3D printed then cast separate from a mold. There are many ways to get the desired items. Casting is quicker and also better for mass production. The rings will be cut and put together in the way they work properly and then soldered together, they are given a finish by hand sanding, using different grits of paper, this gives the desired look after polished for the mat finish its not taken down to a finish as highly as the shinny two. There are also compounds for a buffing wheel, each ring that is in this puzzle has taken quite a bit of time.
@barrygillis
@barrygillis 7 жыл бұрын
My guess is that they are printed in two steps, and not soldered together at all.
@eldunariheart6145
@eldunariheart6145 7 жыл бұрын
Can I get puzzle rings made out of gold for a wedding band?
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
You can ask that question to Puzzleringmaker directly: puzzleringmaker.com/index.php?ref=item&id=60. Apparently, he offers some of his rings in gold.
@kyle20074
@kyle20074 7 жыл бұрын
the inner rings were sandblasted and the other 2 were covered with tape while it happened. and the outer two were polished and the inner two were covered in tape.
@declansmith9445
@declansmith9445 7 жыл бұрын
By sand blasting, that's what makes the half the ring a mate shade
@JoshBattershell
@JoshBattershell 8 жыл бұрын
I used to have this ring
@marvin135
@marvin135 7 жыл бұрын
The texture is different, which are most likely to use an acid to make it matte (in German Matt) the superficial is attacked and thereby roughened. I hope I translated it correctly.
@zukhairinabdullah6335
@zukhairinabdullah6335 7 жыл бұрын
hi oskar..can you make a transparent cube?
@mobeen1433
@mobeen1433 7 жыл бұрын
Different textures due to one being polished, the other anodized
@Arcaninesy
@Arcaninesy 8 жыл бұрын
Ohh, I want this.
@janekokoszko7525
@janekokoszko7525 6 жыл бұрын
The matte rings were sand blasted, and the others were highly polished.
7 жыл бұрын
What do you always say at the beginning? "Hi, I'm Oskar from [???]"
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
My name: Oskar van Deventer
@aiamwoolfy7132
@aiamwoolfy7132 7 жыл бұрын
OskarPuzzle are you dutch?
@drakodra
@drakodra 7 жыл бұрын
obviously
@JoshKaufmanstuff
@JoshKaufmanstuff 6 жыл бұрын
Wow, I'm new to the channel. Has Oskarpuzzle featured anything more impressive to buy than this puzzle ring?
@demetrialilly-mills4645
@demetrialilly-mills4645 6 жыл бұрын
Was it the way the silver was polished/finished?
@mattrowe1037
@mattrowe1037 7 жыл бұрын
The matte finish has been sand blasted
@chiimpy
@chiimpy 7 жыл бұрын
Would be difficult to sand blast those 2 rings without ruining the finish of the other 2 as they're all joined. I'm not just saying this, I'm an engineer :P
@oscarpadron4604
@oscarpadron4604 7 жыл бұрын
Nathan Burton they could have sand blasted them all and used a polishing wheel to fine polish the outside ones
@chiimpy
@chiimpy 7 жыл бұрын
Oscar Padron Yes but that's unnecessary effort.
@ryles5069
@ryles5069 7 жыл бұрын
I don't see how that would be unnecessary, in fact it would be the easiest way to achieve the desired effect.
@JZStudiosonline
@JZStudiosonline 7 жыл бұрын
As an engineer, ever heard of tape? Silver's pretty soft, and sand blasting uses all sorts of materials at different velocities. You just tape the two. Alternatively, they might be printed and have a natural matte appearance, so you just polish the two.
@pmkwiek
@pmkwiek 7 жыл бұрын
pitting (acid, shot peaning,blasting etc ) and buffing
@liriking11
@liriking11 7 жыл бұрын
different finishes, different texture
@FantomZap
@FantomZap 8 жыл бұрын
the shiny one is polished and the matte one was media blasted?
@dooplon5083
@dooplon5083 8 жыл бұрын
They were all sandblasted, but two were polished afterward.
@75maxmax
@75maxmax 8 жыл бұрын
+Ryan Tooher (Zynthesis) You can do it with a dentist blaster, using baking soda as media.
@feastures
@feastures 8 жыл бұрын
Nice puzzles, but the silly questions at the end, brrrrr.
@Mizar88
@Mizar88 8 жыл бұрын
+feastures totally agree
@scott-michael812
@scott-michael812 7 жыл бұрын
either raw vs polished or polished vs blasted
@jacktoombs9461
@jacktoombs9461 7 жыл бұрын
One is brushed the other is polished
@drakodra
@drakodra 7 жыл бұрын
an answer for you question they have a different finish the shiny rings are polished the shine and the dull rings are roughened and the made smooth to not be shiny
@kxiahzdumptruck
@kxiahzdumptruck 7 жыл бұрын
Now she'll feel the way I do when i try to figure out why she's mad about.
@simplenipple
@simplenipple 7 жыл бұрын
Bruh this guy sounds like Goldmember from Austin powers when you close your eyes xD
@rickjansen4416
@rickjansen4416 7 жыл бұрын
SimpleNipple great name!!!
@rickjansen4416
@rickjansen4416 7 жыл бұрын
イリヤスフィール eigenlijk wel, hij is niet echt een expert un de engelse taal
@basvanbrakel1930
@basvanbrakel1930 7 жыл бұрын
イリヤスフィール ja hé, je hoort het gelijk
@tomwebb2285
@tomwebb2285 7 жыл бұрын
do you want a smoke and a pancake ;) xD
@kennbart
@kennbart 6 жыл бұрын
Bong -n-a Blintz? No ?
@mrbibs350
@mrbibs350 8 жыл бұрын
Is the difference in color between the ring paris due to electroplating of Silver onto one pair's surfaces?
@itrycodguy6101
@itrycodguy6101 7 жыл бұрын
Thought you were going to explain how the finish was done
@smincesmeat316
@smincesmeat316 7 жыл бұрын
I love your accent. "Pushle ring is very nishe"
@louislouis7258
@louislouis7258 6 жыл бұрын
Can the rings arrangement be modified ? (e.g. shinny outside and matte inside vice versa)
@javierminguez3420
@javierminguez3420 8 жыл бұрын
para ello tienes que meter las dos piezas que quieres que no brillen en una agitadora con arena
@DaltonBaker
@DaltonBaker 8 жыл бұрын
The shiny rings have been polished. The matte rings have been sand blasted.
@bethanyz4233
@bethanyz4233 7 жыл бұрын
take note my future boyfriend, this better be my engagement ring!
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you, "Butt-waffle" :-)
@lidu6363
@lidu6363 7 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly. It would be the ultimate fidget toy which I would always have with me...
@english_albanian_translator
@english_albanian_translator 7 жыл бұрын
I bought this one for you
@robopoet
@robopoet 8 жыл бұрын
Is it puzzling or just interesting?
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 8 жыл бұрын
+Shaun Graham It is a puzzle ring.It is a challenge to solve.
@ashgabe1864
@ashgabe1864 7 жыл бұрын
You just said in another comment that it was "fairly easy" to solve.
@bigbunn833
@bigbunn833 6 жыл бұрын
Great question. In my personal opinion there isn’t anything really puzzling about the ring but honestly it is way superior á
@kalishnikov2
@kalishnikov2 7 жыл бұрын
i'm going to be real this looks amazing and would keep me busy fiddling with it for years to come but it also looks like it would pinch and cut at your fingers constantly and is something to be worn around a necklace and not on a finger.
@therestorationofdrwho1865
@therestorationofdrwho1865 7 жыл бұрын
They can just sand blast the other rings to make them matte.
@jernulf268
@jernulf268 7 жыл бұрын
The Restoration of Dr Who nope, that would ruin the other rings
@ryles5069
@ryles5069 7 жыл бұрын
Only if the other rings were polished _before_ the sandblasting.
@therestorationofdrwho1865
@therestorationofdrwho1865 7 жыл бұрын
Michael Murphy exactly, polish the others after sandblasting.
@ethansmith5560
@ethansmith5560 7 жыл бұрын
have you seen sandblasting? its like a fucking grinding wheel. emry cloth or something try that.
@zurimorales5240
@zurimorales5240 7 жыл бұрын
amazing. now how do you put it back together?
@ComputersForNerds
@ComputersForNerds 7 жыл бұрын
Watch the video in reverse.
@bubblatea7169
@bubblatea7169 7 жыл бұрын
+MmmDingleBerries and may I ask how you do that?
@ComputersForNerds
@ComputersForNerds 7 жыл бұрын
Bubbla Tea Download the video with some shady program (google: how to download KZbin videos) and hope it's not a virus. Then import the video file into a video editor and find an option that says "reverse" or something along those lines.
@JakeCH_
@JakeCH_ 7 жыл бұрын
It's been sanded with an incredibly fine sand paper?
@ohshucks7156
@ohshucks7156 6 жыл бұрын
So u are asking us a question after you took the puzzle apart ,,
@WerdnaNiraehs
@WerdnaNiraehs 7 жыл бұрын
Did you paint your yoohoo gold?
@Happypheat
@Happypheat 7 жыл бұрын
the looks are done by different polishing methods
@xXIronPeachesXx
@xXIronPeachesXx 7 жыл бұрын
for those seeing the schmoyoho ad. theyre defs right lol. so good.
@jgc9911
@jgc9911 6 жыл бұрын
depends on the finish on it the finer the finish the clearer it is and the rougher the finish the less shiney it looks
@madjoemak
@madjoemak 7 жыл бұрын
One of them is polished and the other one isn't???
@bulldog_1911
@bulldog_1911 8 жыл бұрын
Where do you 3D print it
@calh109
@calh109 7 жыл бұрын
the shiny one were obviously polished and the other two look they were bead blasted or something
@JohnPaulBuce
@JohnPaulBuce 5 ай бұрын
cool
@zeros_knives_and_bushcraft.
@zeros_knives_and_bushcraft. 6 жыл бұрын
Paint a coating on one set of rings then do a process, then remove the coating?
@jazzmynewebster1645
@jazzmynewebster1645 7 жыл бұрын
Was that last question supposed to be difficult?
@Ew-ur9pc
@Ew-ur9pc 8 жыл бұрын
was it a different finishing?
@potatounicorn9840
@potatounicorn9840 7 жыл бұрын
I think you're Dutch, just because of your accent. (I'm Dutch myself so I think that's why)
@CamiloHG
@CamiloHG 4 жыл бұрын
😱 where can I buy it?
@OskarPuzzle
@OskarPuzzle 4 жыл бұрын
The description starts with the words "Buy at puzzleringmaker.com/index.php?ref=item&id=60". That should give you a hint. Also the video ends with a big clickable popup at the bottom left that says "Buy Solid". That gives you another hint. Anyway, I can very much recommend this ring. Excellent quality and enjoyable difficulty level.
@clapreload8305
@clapreload8305 7 жыл бұрын
fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha fasha
@leonardoportoart7233
@leonardoportoart7233 7 жыл бұрын
the matt one is hatched with acid (if it's real silver) when the other one is not
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