Solving the age-old paradox of wargaming hills

[@michaelcaterina4583]

That drumlin edit went so hard

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

😎

[@nguy0699]

@@EricsHobbyWorkshop Same energy as when you talked about studying the blade and I am always here for it

[@maddogmadden23]

I waited for it when I saw this comment. Was not disappointed

[@angelx9724]

Yeah, can we get a just the drumlin bit Short?

[@BarbarosaAlexander]

That was awesome!

[@TGSICaptain]

At 3 minutes in, when the beat drops for drumlins, I had to pause--come down here to the comments--and let you know you're making content that really resonates with people, Eric. That shit made me laugh AND smile. Thanks.

[@capnskustomworks]

Heck yes, I danced!

[@jamesharms748]

We who live in glaciated topography want to thank you 😁

[@JDHetzer]

The guy at @3:50 What a moraine!

[@BlackMagicCraftOfficial]

Videos of old dudes trying to walk down steep hills? Hell yea.

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

was so stoked with that b roll pull lmao

[@maxbrandt6]

It's fun to watch the elderly slip and fall!

[@maxbrandt6]

@@EricsHobbyWorkshop You should have worked in a cartoon sound effect!

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

@@maxbrandt6 its from a video where that guy is showing how steep of a grade a riding mower can go up and down so i think he hams up the slip a bit. I don't like to see my elders hurt

[@OtherlingQueen]

Guys will see a video of an old man walking down a steep hill and just think "hell yeah"

[@jimgetz]

I'd love to see a follow-up video of what the hills looked like after the con. How well did they stand up to abuse? Are there things you would do differently in light of feedback? etc etc

[@oitoitoi1]

Hi Eric, I've been putting a LOT of though into this problem, for YEARS. I came to the conclusion as you that 15 degrees is the max. However I realised the fundamental issue is the movement trays we use. I switched to using multiple trays for 4 infantry models on each, or 2 cavalry, similar to how historical games work. They let you tackle more natural looking terrain, as well as change formation quickly. I wanted them to look seamless, and keep a low profile, so I magnetised 2mm MDF bases for my models, and for trays I use 1mm mild steel plates. The units fit together perfectly, and keep the 3mm profile of GW bases, so they look more like the old GW studio photos where they wouldn't use movement trays. Love your work, your hills look great!

[@andrewj1754]

Yes! Movement trays are definitely part of the problem!

[@ethanhinton-j1i]

I think you need to make your Britonias’s a castle

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Indeed

[@ethanhinton-j1i]

That would make a great project ​@@EricsHobbyWorkshop

[@Grim-Crusader]

Awesome idea I just built a barracks for my Averland army. I need better ideas 😊

[@KrisTomich]

Throw a sheet around your titan, and they have a castle on a mountain. ​@@EricsHobbyWorkshop

[@sebastianrubin7476]

@@Grim-Crusader how about a wagon train? Look up Hussite war wagons and wagon forts; they're pretty much perfect IMO for WHFB. Just the right amount of functionality and weirdness!

[@NotOnLand]

For cheap plasticard, look in a home improvement store for yard sale/for sale/for rent type signs. They're typically dirt cheap and often the same exact material, only with printing on one side. If you go around spring they'll likely be on sale, I got several for $0.20 each

[@ethanhinton-j1i]

Hi Eric love your channel can we have more old world content plz Omg you ❤️ my comment thank you so mutch

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Ok

[@cheeserdane]

I just want orks of any variety. BRING BACK LOOTED WAGONS!

[@BeatonArmaments]

In a way, this is Old World content.

[@lioneljohnson4885]

Great video Eric. I've made scatter terain hills like yours, on some of mine I used thin pieces of balsa wood glued to the under side instead of plastic. They've really held up well to the test of play and time.

[@obtree]

Another option for cheap plasticard are those "for sale" signs at the dollar store

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Those arent that cheap anymore. Sad!

[@MrSplicer3]

Interesting

[@Cuthbo]

Where were you when I needed this 15 years ago, Eric? Where were you when the Westfold fell!? Where- Thanks, great vid 👍

[@ianmaitland4434]

It's always a good idea to weigh down the bottoms of your lightweight minis, so they fall over less. It only cost 2 cents a piece to hot glue a pair of pennies to the underside of a mini's hollow base. 👍

[@ethanmckinney203]

And put something with a bit of friction on the bottom.

[@philpeters3689]

Tip for steep hills. Add texture. either little rocks or "logs" for bases to "hook" onto.

[@JackSmith-qp9nh]

Whenever I see the close up thumbnails I imagine the miniatures are people sized and Eric is just naturally 500 feet tall.

[@TheZapan99]

If you're on a budget, you can recycle your models plastic sprues by melting them in a bath of acetone, before using a rolling pin to create plastic wafers. When left to cure between two non-stick flat surface, they efficiently replace plasticard and can be cut and sanded to shape. Plus every scrap can be re-melted and turned into other terrain projects.

[@ThisNameWasntUs3d]

One of the best solutions I've seen is to put T-Shirts or laundry under your wargame mat. You can sort of push a movement tray down into it, and it looks really organic

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Sounds like itd make wrinkles elsewhere on the mat though?

[@ntw3002]

​@@EricsHobbyWorkshopsmooth it out by putting more laundry on top

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

⁠@@EricsHobbyWorkshop- cloth/felt terrain mats are surprisingly flexible. I use clothes and towels as hills all the time and there’s little problem with wrinkles. The main problem arises if your figures and buildings are heavy, which can cause the hills to sag. The solution is then to use books covered in clothes under your mat.

[@Grubnar]

I guess you could say that making one is an ... uphill battle! I know, I know ... I´ll see myself out!

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

No, stay lol

[@ChristopherDunkle]

This comment deserves more likes.

[@Qew77]

i really like your channel cause i can FEEL your passion through the screen, its really engaging and inspiring

[@sprootown]

Functioning stackable hills are one of the first things you should build....You nailed it with the angle. Great job, and good looking!

[@capnskustomworks]

Those look awesome, and I love the partially-exposed stone faces. I think you’ve captured Wisconsin pretty accurately! Haha! Very natural feeling!!! Having worked measuring land, it’s amazing how little slope ye need to make a difference. And a few nice accents like that really change the terrain! Awesome work, as always!

[@Bluecho4]

Eric: "You can't use the occasional existence of terraces to justify flat hills! It's the exception that proves the rule!" Also Eric: "The existence of the Drumlin entirely justifies the existence of round hills jutting out of flat plains!"

[@liamkehoe5957]

You can use grass mats that architects use in their models, you can use to go around the rim to hide the white and provide a bit of extra protection too

[@thomaskaracwilson]

2:24 You need to make some terraced wargaming terrain now. It’s used in agriculture all around the world.

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Yes, im gonna make some for my lizardmen! Macchu pichu style

[@RodeThe600]

When he put up the background of rice terraces, I instantly thought "Oh that would make some heckin' terrain!"

[@evanhughes7609]

@@RodeThe600 *Counts as impassable to cavalry

[@MetalKingStudio]

We have been playing a lot of Conquest Last Argument of Kings and we never use hills because of the large rank and flank units. These look so good. I should make some for the club.

[@trenchfoot9377]

The editing is great! Keep it up!

[@JanitorScruffy]

As someone who has been an IRL toy soldier for life size wargaming, I have fallen down many a hill and into many a ditch, without the angles even being too steep. So believe me when I say, that little man is doing his best 😭

[@josray2557]

I don't see a ton of build solutions so that's neat. I think the last one was BMC and the rubber roads and things which also was cool.

[@MRottar]

I did not have “drumlin montage” on my bingo card for today 😂😂

[@0shlem0]

The drumlin bit absolutely murdered me. Fantastic video.

[@TaliaTheNeko]

Sent this to our gaming groups "hill guy" (aka the one with the proxxon) as he will find this super useful. Thanks for what you do Eric for keeping us terrain mortals in the game!

[@roryoutdoors5431]

My secret weapon for hill tops (and anything ground terrain) is clumping cat litter and white craft glue! The clumping absorbs the glue and they harden up great. I sift it sometimes for finer earth - even just a sprinkling of the dust makes a good sealant for playing surfaces. ⚔️🇨🇦

[@nornironlad8472]

Excellent video. Other options for bases are Sintra (foamed PVC sheet) or 3mm MDF (remember to paint the bottom side to prevent moisture absorption and subsequent warping😄). Also, source black polystyrene or pvc sheeting if available to, somewhat, avoid the edge problem. Ah, drumlins, learned about those as a kid from my geographer Dad every time we drove through County Down😁.

[@johnphilippatos]

I'm not really into wargaming, but this terrain can easily make it in any diorama. Sweet!

[@Mara999]

This technique looks like it could also be used to make grave-mounds, even hollow ones for RPG encounters. But it could be kinda fun in a wargame, if two opposing factions get attacked by the angry undead denizens of a tumulus they just desecrated by walking over it.

[@ChristopherDunkle]

A battle among the Barrow Mounds. Some may be completely safe, while others contain restless undead. Various activities will have different chances of disturbing the denizens of the mounds. Activities may result in the undead becoming more aware of the disturbance, until eventually they emerge. Crossing over a mound may be fairly safe. Using a mound as a base for firing arrows will draw more attention. A battle on a mound may result in one, or both forces being attacked. The more mounds that become active, the closer other mounds get to becoming active.

[@ErikDavisHeim]

Those hills look great, they should really add a lot to the tables and the overall visual experience at the tournament.

[@ShastaDoktorG]

I do nearly the same process. But use 1/8inch masonite (aka hardboard) instead of plasticard. I cut those pieces first. Then glue them to the construction foam. THEN cut. I use a hand-held hot wire instead of the tabletop. Then i sand. Then black basecoat. Then your steps. Except the hobby spray matte from rr scenics. Im going to try that. And your sand goo mix. Thanks for the vid.

[@jtrain9926]

Looks great Eric! Also for anyone needing styrene on a budget Eons of Battle recommended plastic signs (like this Beware of Dog signs) from the hardware or dollar store.

[@TheShortOne518]

You're one of my favorite youtubers. It's always so interesting watching you make whatever in your videos.

[@Frugalmax]

There's foam in dem dar hills! Great video! Between hills and "getting the water actually below the ground level" we've got some of the fundamental realism vs. playability tension of wargame terrain. For a while we used some GeoHex foam hexagons that you could make irregular and somewhat gently sloped hills from, but laying out the table became a lot more time consuming than just dropping a few single piece hills down. Very nicely done!

[@X.davidWilliams]

Huzzah,, Top Notch Build. You always come with the goods Buddy.

[@rickrussell8382]

I make the base a little bigger then the hill. After the hill gets glued to the base I skim the edge with latex mixed with green or brown paint to fill in the gap. That creates a flexible edge that is durable and easy to repair.

[@ScratchBashing]

hills: Solved

[@melanisticmandalorian]

hills : have eyes

[@Bobdd0]

Sills: Holved

[@garybuettner7920]

Cool. Love when you’re building stuff.

[@TheHunterTheory]

I had never seen a video by you before and I didn't know if I was interested in this topic despite being interested in terrain making, until the drumlin hit. Subscribed.

[@marccendros3605]

Great build, but I feel the hills should be much bigger for 28mm scale because otherwise, with that angle, it wouldn't be tall enough, and also the footprint is too small. But the process would be exactly the same and it is very valid.

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

I cut out the bit where I mention that simon wanted hills approx the size of the old citadel wood, which is pretty bloody small for a hill, but good for tournament play

[@pezpengy9308]

i was so ready for one of my biggest terrain conundrums to be answered... i really wasnt expecting a redefinition of, "hills." still, nice work, well done and all. if i can offer a suggestion if you want really cheap styrene go buy some, "no trespassing" or, "for sale" signs at your local big box; theyre usually made of styrene.

[@feralchild2633]

So cool to see a video from you on a monday ! Instructional, practical + we can see you're having fun with the editing and it's even better to watch !

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Forbidden chocolate pudding at the 6:40 mark.

[@KristovMars]

Great work on the video, and even better work on solving one of the greatest foes any hobbyist can face.

[@7even-arch]

One of my favorite things about hills for wargaming is that it can block movement without blocking line of sight, and it can be used to force a player into certain movements in very interesting ways

[@beowulfjast]

I did not realize I needed more drumlin edits in my life. Great vid as always!

[@DarrylAdams]

Bless you Eric. This is exactly the content i need to build my hills. The 15deg slope is great and looks good. The old school terrace hills still have a place if you want that topographic map feel for your games

[@hyenadude]

I love hobby time Tom Hardy

[@Tizi1999]

Thank you for making this! I will surely try this out for my D&D Terrain.

[@underthedice]

This may be your best work yet

[@AskDoctorBear]

I’ve always had a problem with how war gaming “hills” looked, but these actually look like hills! I’m definitely going to try this approach next time I make terrain

[@unrelevanteireball4538]

This is awesome! Love the method. I have some polystyrene just sitting in my room waiting for my inspiration to come back. Looks like I’ll be busy next weekend!

[@matthew_thefallen]

Hey! That's how I used to do them! Nice to see someone else does it 😅

[@heikoabeyer]

Youre a wizard with a lot of stamina! I love you!

[@k-dog495]

Hahaha amazing. Glad you're back in my feed!

[@sirguy6678]

Excellent video! Useful cool looking and playable terrain has been a problem since the beginning of table gaming

[@friendlyneighbourhoodnerd]

Wow, and I was just trying to think about how to make some desert hills/dunes/escarpments! Great video.

[@Ooittee]

Perfect sweater for the green screen :) lol love it. Thanks for the video mate.

[@wayner396]

These look incredible. Great work and video

[@gorkamorka999]

The stepped type of hill can also obscure LOS (which many games with true LOS still need) without using up too much space and you can put other scenery on top as well. The sloped hill design you landed on in the end was also visible on the page as sloped hill at 1:28, but in 3rd ed 40k those smaller ones like around 11:00 would have been used as difficult terrain as per the rules. I think both have their uses and the stepped hill can look much nicer too, if you dress the edges with some rocks or earth or something like that. If you play more than one game you'll probably want a couple of either one in your collection. There's another age-old wargaming problem though: storage...

[@damiangaunt8784]

The biggest problem with wargaming hills is that game rules usually don't like big scenery but apart from drumlins, hills be massive. I came to the same conclusions about height and slope, but my hills are about least twice as big. Nice video as usual.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Yes. Most wargaming hills are tiny. They don’t look anything like natural hills. The hills I’ve made in recent years are 2x - 4x the size and typically start at a table-edge or corner.

[@johnnybigbones4955]

I think the real issue is that wargames (at least regiment scale games) have figures more as "markers" than real to scale representations. The single 28mm miniature might represent 60 or more troops, so the terrain is sort of a visual compromise with what looks good and is playable on the table. Because otherwise at the scale we play at, a hill would really be most of the table as you say.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@johnnybigbones4955 - It’s unusual to have 1 mini represent as many as 60 real men, around 1:33 or 1:20 is more typical, and in skirmish games it can often be 1:1. But yes, they are in effect just gaming tokens. For those of us that use them, however, they can be very lifelike tokens! The problem really comes down to transport. Large hills are a real pain to transport and to store.

[@LSOP-]

It was a pleasure to meet and play you at sbot. I've been looking forward to this.

[@martialdoctor3482]

Really nice work here. Impressive job!

[@squeethemog213]

That's so cool dude. Fantastic tips and I can't wait to give these a shot. Thank you 🙏😃

[@ryanrobertson8974]

The best content on the internets. Great watch as always!

[@polrua]

One thing I noticed with the drumlins (love the d'n'b remix!) was that they were often kind of teardrop-shaped, with a gradual incline one one side and a sharp drop-off on the far end. This would make for great wargaming terrain as it provides a gradual incline for troops to march up, a high ground for ranged troops, and the protection from charging foot-troops offered by the steeper side, so that it's inclusion on a board makes for tactical opportunities for the players. These could be especially useful on rougher terrain, like the snow-covered board and reflect more difficult battle conditions.

[@matthewking6489]

Great video, and an excellent technique for making hills. I know it's not quite the focus of your channel, but I'd love to see more of your Mechanicum army somehow!

[@dreadknot69]

Love the hills! Looks pretty good too. I'm not happy that there was an event in Toronto that I missed! :(

[@ryanhale6339]

A little poster-tack (that sticky putty-like stuff) under the minis in those formation trays would let you play on even steeper hills, too. Cheaper than magnets, just keep it in a ziplock baggie to prevent cheeto-dusting.

[@MiniBasin]

You've made me want to try some hills now!

[@mateuszkrytyk5711]

Natural flat hills with steep sides..... hmmm Mesa themed battlefield? Cliffside ? Iceland basalt columns? There are some natural options not only man made 😘

[@mrmako66]

My issue with hills is whether or not they're supposed to represent something bigger and block LOS to everything on the other side, irrespective of the size of the models you're playing with. Or are they rolling countryside and if you can see it peeking over you can target it. Something to confirm before play starts. Really nice scenery you've made for the tournament though, hope everyone enjoyed your hard work.

[@KristopherMelin-l4i]

I was waiting for a "That's not the hill I want to die on" joke. Great video, Eric!

[@CanOfRabbitHoles]

every upload just hits the spot! good job man

[@JezGray1977]

Inspiring as always, great video.

[@aguiaia1]

A good and easy angle on the hills is very nice, but if you really don't want your pieces to tip over, a nice way to guarantee it won't happen is to add weight under the base of the piece (be it a iron or lead weight)

[@ChristopherDunkle]

Enjoyed the video, and found the ideas and techniques interesting. Would have been nice to see some examples of how they worked in play situations, but I saw your comment about having lost some footage. Something else I think would be interesting, especially since some people are complaining the hills are too low, would be a video where you use these methods to build a "hill" that is approximately 3' x 3' round, and four layers high in the center, but is made of four quarters. In this way it could be used as one central hill, or half hills on opposing ends of the battlefield, or half hills along the sides of the battlefield, or quarter hills in corners of the battlefield, or some combination thereof. This will allow people to see what higher hills would look like, and also how drastic an effect such a hill would have on a 4' x 8' gaming table.

[@vorpalCortex]

excellent! so motivated to try this

[@yogsothoth7594]

You can also put a hill at the very edge of the battlemap or on opposite edges, now you have a flat floodplain between two sets of low hills.

[@vytas5584]

I don’t play, but I am obsessed with these terrain videos 😂

[@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel]

Great video as always. I designed a tile system for 3D printing and in January launching a Patreon in January, I will have hills and levels. I already have some released on my channel and store.

[@yamichasi]

They look really nice, but what’s the range of heights for them? How well do they block line of sight and provide elevation?

[@gregoryhall4062]

Right in time for some hills for my Legion game this weekend

[@cavemanbum]

I have similarly made hills in my collection, and I'm constantly worried about them chipping during storage and transport. To mitigate this problem, I've used thin sheets of bubble wrap between each layer of hills as they sit in the tote I store them in. This protects them quite well.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Before painting, I cover my styrene hills with papier-maché (that is small strips of newspaper dipped in diluted wood glue). It gives them a tough layer of protection, which you can improve further by sprinkling fine sand over the top before the PVA dries. It’s so good as protection I don’t even bother with Eric’s base-plate of plastic card.

[@cavemanbum]

@@sirrathersplendid4825 NICE

[@johnnybigbones4955]

This is a great style of hill for rolling hills in a grassland. I still like me some stepped hills when doing rocky crags, Wyloch style, because you can really get more height there and I think the sheer sides don't look too bad for that style.

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

Crags are cool but theyre supposed to be impassable which is a whole different thing

[@nicholasdeptola5639]

The drumlin part was a nice addition to the video

[@anthonypalmer3351]

These look amazing!

[@BeeptheLesser]

Sounds like something prettty exciting is coming up!!

[@Deltex]

8:42 Hell Yeah? Hill Yeah!

[@Beaut_Beau]

Drumlin's are now my new favourite thing.

[@DETHMOKIL]

Cutting styrene with the hot wire is a big tip man, sawing out mdf separately, sanding them, and filling the gap is like half the time building a hill. Worth trying for real.

[@XandersArcaneStudy]

Great video! I need to make some Hills for The Old World, so this is good timing. 👌

[@TabletopKarnage]

Who the hell is Alex Plus? I want my Gorilla Caulk!

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

Regarding the edge of the hill looking rough and chipped, I wonder if there's a solution similar to what you see with a lot of buildings or rocky terrain where every piece of terrain is "blended" in with loose fine gravel. Could it be as simple as... coloring that gravel green? I don't think just sprinkling flock would be sensible.

[@zachjones2443]

I’m about to start a narrative old world Chanel, this has helped

[@jonny251990]

This video made me laugh so much, I spent my MSc and PhD working on drumlins (looking out how they form and other glacial related processes). I got into war gaming at uni as a way to destress so maybe the reverse is true, and war gaming springs out of drumlin fields🤣

[@EricsHobbyWorkshop]

So whats your opinion? I learned ages ago they were depositional features but now i hear some people think they are erosional features?