Solving the Arcane Timeline Problem

[@entgrove]

I think the timeline we see Jayce in for Arc 3 of Season 2 is an acceleration ruin timeline where Viktor did not fuse the ruin to his arm so he looses it at some point. The timeline we are on is his second attempt where he fuses the ruin to his arm before sending him back! Thats why the ship is there meaning Ekko returned but we still loose!

[@abrahamcastillo8500]

I thought that the Dead Vi timeline was different because it was the timeline where Vander got the letter to Silco. The one Jinx and Vi found while looking for Warwick.

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

Jayce was also punished more harshly and never invented Hextech, which means no Viktor.

[@entgrove]

Its possible that the letter got to vander. Maybe Vi’s death led to silco and vander coming together. Heimersinger still would have changed a lot in those three years. Stuff changed with Vi but I think even more changed from heimerdinger. He tried to help Zaun in our timeline, I am sure he has a lot to do with how Zaun turns out in the alternate timeline

[@austinfehr9793]

@@entgrove I think most of the stuff Heimerdinger changed would be with the relationship between Piltover and Zaun because he saw how much the Zaunites were suffering from his timeline. Also with Vander and SIlco working together to make Zaun a better place already it was easier for Heimer to unite the nations as Zaun would be less antagonistic towards Piltover.

[@rosedagger1487]

I think Viktor is looking for a timeline where both he and Jayce survives. And one where he needs to do the minimum amount of change to get it to happen. Assuming original timeline Jayce survives the snowstorm, and uses his mother's death to try and figure out magic. Then gets close to Viktor like in our timeline, but Viktor goes Messiah and blesses everyone out off free will. He looks back and wants a timeline that is different, and feels Jayce is the one who is the most likely to convince himself to change. So he goes back to change one thing, save Jayce's mother, but not giving a rune. This timeline someone else picks up hex tech, as Viktor sais there is always someone who invents it, and Jayce might have less of a burn for it. Jayce and Viktor don't meet, Viktor dies. He goes back and changes one more thing, giving a rune to Jayce to get him on the track to hex tech. For the happy timeline I think Jayce dies in the explosion, otherwise Himedinger would not feel he messed up with Jayce in that timeline. Meaning Viktor dies. But Viktor wants a timeline where he lives, so that timeline is not enough. Also for the happy timeline Silco is present and not juices up, so other things would have had to change beyond Himedinger going back a few years and fixing everything. Someone suggested that Silco found the note in the tunnels and patched things up. So there is always more slight changes. The butterfly effect. The future timeline I don't think is an acceleration rune, events are just slightly different, leading to Jayce being more edgy, with his hammer, and Jinx to be in the fight. Jayce, Ekko and Himedinger probably didn't go into the wild rune in that one, and Ekko didn't have the Z-drive to save the day at the end, leading to Jayce being a statue. But it is the timeline that allows Viktor to talk to Jayce, changing things so they turn out the way they do. I also don't think Jayce and Viktor are dead in our timeline, and they will show up, just like Jinx is not dead.

[@entgrove]

This actually makes sense. Looking for a specific timeline where he and jayce survives!

[@lozza1853]

@@entgrove specifically, one that deviates from the 'original' timeline as little as possible. herald viktor, the time-travelling one, comes to appreciate free-will, individuality, flaws, humanity, etc. and regrets what he's done. 'fields of dreamless solitude' is an existence devoid of choice. by creating another timeline where he, for example, went to himself and said "do NOT do this, i'm going to beam everything that would happen into your head. yeah, see? sucks. dont do it.", he'd be taking away from that timeline's freedom/choice because it only is that way BECAUSE of him. by ONLY changing the end result, he keeps the timeline ~identical but makes sure to not intervene any more than he needs to, allowing the timeline and humanity to go on without excessive interference.

[@zariaswell]

I think Viktor can't tell himself because he goes to another timeline he just swap places with himself, just like Ekko.

[@theskeptic777]

@@entgrovenot even capping rn (as someone who actually sees them as a great storyline for queer writing) But there is no straight explanation behind “I don’t care how many timelines I need to make, the only one that matters is the one where you and I survive.” It’s like the whole “1 universe” rule from Dr. Strange but EVEN MORE CONVOLUTED

[@HapPawhere]

@@theskeptic777 The time traveller Viktor want that specific timeline (the canon one) to be good ending without changing anything outside Jayce & Viktor (in which affect others aswell). It's the same as DCU The Flash that want to change the past but making new timeline everytime he changed things. The good thing is League of Legends lore or arcane lore now will always use canon timeline & will not touch timeline thing again if they follow lore in-game

[@hilariomadera1164]

My favorite explanation for Timetraveler Victor's actions is that he wanted Jayce to stop him not to save the world but in order to cure and save himself.

[@Dotsforall]

Absolutely agreed with this. Viktor most likely already understood his world was finished (end of the world viktor) by stopping main timeline Viktor, he would not suffer the same fate. In another video a related it to trunks from dbz. Future trunks timeline and thus himself was set in stone. By going to the "past" which is really a parallel universe/time, he saved a version of himself from his fate.

[@HapPawhere]

Yeah, because Viktor never mention another characters beside Jayce alone . He only cares about how the heck to stop me

[@NetworKrakle]

Heimer didn’t cause that new timeline to be all kind. No. That timeline was different because everyone thought differently. Silco basically says so when Ekko confronts him: “The greatest thing we can do in life, is find the power to forgive.” Forgiveness is something other timeline lacks, at least in this amount. Why that is, idk. But Heimer can not be the reason that timeline is so different. Besides, Heimer was only there for 3 years, but there are drawings by Powder that would suggest things have been happy like that for much longer.

[@entgrove]

their are changes because Vi dies, but I think the main change is heimerdinger. Its possible that Vi's death affected Silco, made him work with vander, but with Heimerdinger careing go back 3 years, caring for Zaun, and guiding Jayce, I cant see us getting to where we when we see that timeline in the show

[@cpuuk]

I agree, Heimer arrived too late, he took the minstrel role (very Bob Dylan, very anti war) to ensure he stayed away from Hex. It was Vi's death that changed that particular timeline. Powder never became Jinx, because Silco & Vander reconciled (maybe it was Vi's death) and both lived. We know that Powder did keep the Hex crystals, but never worked on them after Vi's death from the explosion. There's a big 'what-about' to do Jayce & Vicktor in that timelime as no Hex-tek is visible, which suggests Heimer played no further part, so maybe they hadn't discovered the secrets, perhaps they also died in the explosion? My take-away from ep7 was a real "what could have been".

[@janosd4nuke]

​@@cpuuk I suspect with Vi dying in the explosion Jayce got a more serious sentence, so he had no path to develop hextech at all. Silco and Vander is still a big question. Yeah, everyone is on about the letter in the mines, but what exactly made the difference of Silco finding it? Sure many things can play out differently if we completely mess around with ep1. Anyway, this time line was a lot different already way before Heimerdinger arrived.

[@Subbathon]

The dude made air breathable and green green.

[@DellikkilleD]

@@cpuuk I think Jayce stayed in jail, because the death of a child(Vi) made the optics so bad caits family wouldnt help him out of prison

[@DellikkilleD]

.. I think you missed an important detail. The acceleration rune exists in every timeline. the difference is *which* rune jayce was given *first* Jayce 'discovers' many runes. Also, assuming as you said that time is passing in all the timelines roughly equally- It was a showing of what would have happened, had Viktor not yanked Jayce into the 'future'. that yank is what caused ekko to discover the z drive. no yank means no boy savior. means the ending Jayce saw.

[@entgrove]

Your saying Ekko always comes back regardless if the original rune is the acceleration ruin. That could also be possible

[@DellikkilleD]

@@entgrove im saying ekko always comes back, if the accel rune is first *and* viktor yanks jayce forward to see what he has become. I dont believe viktor always gets bored in his solitude either. in fact, this is likely the first/only time that happened, likely eon's in the future still.

[@doodle3986]

@@entgrove I thought the same thing. It may be the only way to make sense of what you said about having the acceleration rune and not winning. And I personally like to think that the hammer jayce finds has passed through many hands before his. All jayces that failed, have had the same hammer, but that means that the first jayce didnt loose his first hammer, so idk. Maybe hes a gigachad who carried it all the way on his shoulder

[@DellikkilleD]

@@entgrove in fact, we *know* that orginally, Viktor *doesnt* yank jayce, as shown by him having the hammer in his 'evolved' statue form. He loses his hammer right after being transposed into the future timeline. Creating a nifty chicken egg paradox around the mutated hammer too.

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

@@entgrove Since Heimer invents the return travel device, it is really possible that both of them always return.

[@guest_zzroman2076]

I think the writers confirmed in an interview that hextech would eventually be found out even without Jayce like in the "good" timeline where it gets discovered by Powder thanks to Ekko, so even without Viktor or Jayce's involvement the glorious evolution would've still happened which is why Viktor had to ensure Jayce was the one who invented it and eventually stopped him as he's the only one that could bring him to his senses.

[@jer103]

In the Disney series Loki, you have the sacred timeline. Then when you have deviations, they become branches off the main timeline.

[@micahriley7007]

The reason why there's an acceleration rune timeline where we lose is because Jayce lost his bracelet, and didn't have the rune on him when he was assimilated. that's why victor fuses it to his wrist in the final timeline, so that it assimilates with him, and he can give it to victor in the void.

[@frankieconcepcion7860]

this

[@lozza1853]

would that even matter, though? i know he gives it to viktor and they get sucked into it and blip away (i also believe it essentially cancelled out whatever destructive effects ekko's supercharged anomaly would have had on its surroundings, multiplying the inversion by itself but anyway). but by the time jayce gives it to viktor, viktor had already realised what he was doing and decided to stop - "you must go, jayce". him giving the rune to viktor simply allows them both to disappear. honestly, one could argue it would have been better for jayce to lose the rune, because then jayce would've left the astral plane thing and survived and viktor would have stopped himself.

[@madpostman]

​@@lozza1853 It's likely that, even though Viktor says "You must go, Jayce." and decides to try and stop himself, he probably wouldn't have enough willpower to actually stop himself. Just like how he wasn't able to destroy the Hexcore himself, and he needed to ask Jayce to do it for him. Ekko's time bomb damaged Viktor and allowed Viktor to regain some of his humanity back for a moment, but that damage will self-repair itself quickly (due to having the apex shimmer blood from the Beast / Warwick). Once the self-repair happens, Viktor will lose his humanity again and go back to his emotionless "Machine Herald" self, in spite of what he saw in Jayce's memories. Once that happens, he'll continue on and complete the "Glorious Evolution", using the Anomaly's arcane magic to end all human conflict (turning all humans into perfect emotionless automatons). Viktor needs Jayce there with the acceleration rune, because Viktor isn't strong enough to do it himself. He needs his partner / brother to help. As Jayce says, "We finish this together."

[@Dotsforall]

I've been trying to explain this concept since the show ended. End of the world viktor is not the same viktor from the main timeline we are following through the show. End of the world Viktor ended his world, realized that was not a good thing, and said let me see if I can stop me from doing this and then started going back through time creating the branching timelines/universe that is the show we watched and the ones that failed (with the different runes) It's why end of the world viktor does not look like the viktor from the main timeline we follow in the show. There is a million reasons how and why the end of the world timeline Viktor still won. but there was no ekko with Zdrive, maybe even no ekko at all. The noxians captured Warwick/Vander, destroyed Viktors community and then lead an attack to take the hexgates like they were going to do before Jayce showed up and one shot Viktor in the main timeline. Jinx shows up to try and rescue Vander/warwick, (which is why her hideout is still stuck in the building). Viktor comes to the same conclusion about humanity shows up to take the anomaly as Jayce is trying to shut it down to prevent the noxians from gaining control over it. Jayce tries to fight Viktor like he did in the main timeline, loses and Viktor evolves everyone. As for Himer having a hand in creating the "good" timeline, Imo that's not the case as why would Himer let Vi die? I think the "good" tineline it not a result of End of the world Viktor, but rather it really is a parallel universe, where the unrefined Hex gem killed Vi and Jayce was banished or even killed in the blast thus it never got off the ground. final thought: end of the world Viktor looks much older than the Viktor from the main timeline so he has been around a long while. Meaning end of the world Viktors timeline is far more ahead then the timeline we watched in the show. The show seems to be playing with both time and parallel worlds. but I agree, End of the world Viktor's timeline is set

[@entgrove]

Great explanation

[@Dotsforall]

Thank you ​@entgrove :) your video is also well done and I'd say we are pretty much on the same page ❤

[@canjier8353]

ppl need to acknowledge that as amazing as s2 was it had some major flaws and holes on top of being rushed I could go on but I'm too tired goodnight everybody wherever you are take care

[@austrociking4345]

I agree with the comments saying Heimer isn’t the “fixer” of the episode 7 timeline. There’s nothing in the show to infer this. We don’t see Viktor or Jayce in the timeline, we don’t even hear about them. If either was alive they’d be the first people Heimer and Ekko would go to for help on the Z drive. Jayce is in prison, hextech isn’t developed, and Viktor is dead. If Vander and Silco made up, then it’s far less likely that Shimmer exists, so no extension for Viktor. Or Viktor is working directly with Singe instead of Silco. Ultimately it comes down to this in my opinion: why bother killing off Vi in the alternate timeline if it wasn’t significant? I think her life or death is a major catalyst for the alternate world.

[@XennialGeek]

Your theory of the first timeline doesn't make sense. Even if Jayce survived as a child without Viktors interference, he would never witnessed magic and never would have dreamed of creating technology with magic capabilities. He would just become a tool maker as his father or maybe regular inventor. So Viktor would still die because the hex core never modified him. Shimmer might have helped him stay alive longer but wouldn't have caused his evolution. So the entire show, alle timelines we have seen are based in an paradoxon. Which IMO manifest as as the anamoly.

[@Xicor111]

Show really undersells how much magic is in Runeterra. Its not rare at all. Bunch of people have it even in piltover/zaun (which is the LEAST magical region btw), its just the shows makes a big show of it, like its some rare thing. Jayce is destined to create Hextech, whether he gets the rune or not.

[@IlianaVelikova]

I really love tour videos. So much stuff is more clear now. However, I have sometimes to pause and rewatch, in order not to blow my mind like one of Jinx's monkeys

[@entgrove]

Thanks illiana!! :)

[@alexandersuperapple]

all they had to do was omit who saved Jayce and it would've worked - Ekko travels to a parallel universe so he can influence Jinx in his own universe - Jayce travels to the future where he gets an insight what's going to happen so he can show it to present time Viktor perfectly acceptable

[@chaoticstarfish3401]

The most confusing part is that Viktor seemingly only really changed the rune he gave Jayce. There must be some great limitations to Viktor's powers if that's really all he could do to change the future - especially when he "evolved" everyone: he would have the memories of every single person, and therefore know of everything that led to his future. Why would he even believe that giving Jayce a different rune would be the answer to changing the future, instead of the countless, more direct thing he could do? The more I think about this paradox, the less it makes sense to me.

[@entgrove]

Maybe his power is still finite? We see that problem with the conclave Viktor in our timeline.

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

@@entgrove Viktor's abilities are limited. Ekko has proven this. His Z-drive is capable of changing one's past. Viktor can only change the events in the next timeline.

[@chaoticstarfish3401]

@@entgrove It must be, but it's all mostly inference and guesswork. For such a crucial plot point to be so little elaborated upon.... I just wish they had explained it all a bit more.

[@madpostman]

Going into deep Runeterra lore here: it may have something to do with the Void. The Watchers within the Void are constantly trying to enter the Runeterra world and the universe overall in order to corrupt and consume everything, in order to return everything to "nothingness". They tried to do this in the Freljord with Lissandra, and they tried to do this in Icathia with the mages there. In the end, they failed both times. In my opinion, the "Anomaly", the Hexcore, and Hextech in general were another attempt by the Watchers to corrupt and consume Runeterra in the form of the Anomaly, a corrupted version of the arcane due to the overuse of Hextech. The more the arcane is used in certain ways, the more likely the arcane wil attract the Void Watchers and be corrupted. This is why the hextech gems were malfunctioning when the Anomaly was active (Viktor's Hexcore, Jayce's hammer, Caitlyn's gun, Vi's gauntlets, Jinx's missile launcher). The Anomaly / Void-touched arcane was attempting by the Watchers to corrupt the arcane / magic within the hextech gems. An example of this corruption was the altered hammer in the alternate future universe. The altered hammer was no longer powered by a simple hex gem, it was powered by the Anomaly / Void-touched arcane version of the hex gem. However, future Viktor finally understood what was happening. The Sky that Viktor was talking to in his mind was just the Void Watchers manipulating him. With this new understanding, Viktor was able to control the Anomaly to an extent. He used this control of the corrupted arcane to go back in time and give Jayce a rune (multiple times), to send Ekko & Heimerdinger to an alternate universe, to give Jayce the Void-touched hammer from the future, and to send Jayce back to his present timeline. In the end, future Viktor is finally able to change the future by giving Jayce the acceleration rune in the past, the only alteration to the timeline that was able to stop Viktor.

[@BigpopsMcGee]

As far as I can tell is that ekko throwing his time machine and breaking the shell around his face was the difference. Maybe in other accelerated timelines this didn’t happen.

[@UmamiNoodle]

One (kind of? Plot hole) I see is that Ekko occupies the space of the Ekko from the good time line. I can’t help but think Heimerdinger did the same- but because he died- the alternative probably died too. Who knows. But! Jayce does not do this. He sees himself- the other Jayce (gave me chills when it looked like things were about to repeat in the finale on the rooftop. Sheesh). But that was my reasoning of why I think Jayce went to the future. Two Jayces (even if one is evolution-Ified on the rooftop). I do like the idea of a new time line is created each time Viktor goes back. But also note- it’s like Jayce’s experience with going to the future. Baby Viktor still existed when Mage Viktor appears to young Jayce. Thus why I think it’s true… like time travel? So why I don’t think all the universes really run consecutively. If that’s what you meant by that, ha. I also can’t help but think- honestly they didn’t plan on Viktor being the Mage. I keep watching clips and the guy’s silhouette really has a big goatee, which Viktor’s doesn’t seem that big. Viktor being the mage really ties everything together super nicely though (despite the time problems- but thematically). So I hope I’m wrong there. Why Viktor chose not to nuke young Jayce from Orbit I think.. is because he still wanted to meet Jayce. Maybe Jayce really is his bff/partner/etc. That not meeting him would really be tragic. The only way for that not to happen was for Jayce to never get the Rune. In the good time line- speculating. I don’t think that timeline was “good” for Jayce and Viktor. Having a Zaunite child blowup in your illegal lab probably shut down everything for Jayce. Maybe Jayce and Viktor still met- but I doubt Viktor would help him like he helps him in the main timeline. He is a Zaunite kid, too, after all. Hell, maybe Jayce works the rest of his life to try to make up for this. Fun to think about them helping each other in ways that aren’t Hextech related. The ‘forgiveness’ that Silco and Vander find I do think is because Vi gets killed. And- as stated, Silco gets the letter. Because Zaun is in such better shape in that timeline- I like to think Viktor helps Zaun get back on its feet- especially since he loses his professor. But Yanno. I can hope. I really really love your videos! I hope your channel blows up. Honestly listening to your theories has been great through all of S2 Arcane. 🤙

[@entgrove]

I definitely think Vi’s death had a lot to do with silco and Vander coming together! Thanks Umami!! :)

[@CuteC3]

Nice vid! They could probably get away with 5:46 by saying someone else drove Jynx's pre-build ship into battle. Therefore it doesn't have to be the timeline where Ekko comes back to save Jynx.

[@rayrayraydio]

6:31 we lost because Jayce didn’t have the message from future Victor yet. That message is the reason why Victor changed his mind and therefore we win

[@julitakamaki4386]

I enjoyed the show immensely. However, IMO, the Arcane writers screwed up and over complicated everything in season 2. It’s very messy. Especially when compared to season 1. Personally I don’t think timelines, paradoxes, multiverses, whatever, work in storytelling. It just creates a lot of stupid contrivances and impossible to explain outcomes. Marvel proved that multiverse use is VERY lazy storytelling and I’m convinced now that it never works(unless it’s dumbed down to extremely basic rules of time travel only). Not even Arcane could make it work, though I still enjoyed the show. All that aside, Arcane is one of the most stunning pieces of digital media to exist today.

[@Szerith]

I humbly disagree on the alternative timeline... I think, in the forgiveness-Timeline, Jayce got home a bit earlier in season one - Vi tried to fight him (because... of course she does) and both die in the explosion. Hextech never existed. This means, piltover depended on chemtech for progress in this timeline - meaning more respect and money for the lanes. And with piltover just being medium scumbags, silco was not that determined as in the main timeline... he reflected, thought about the beginning and went back to the mine to find the letter, thus finding forgiveness in his heart and never employing Singed to create shimmer. I think, Heimerdinger did just sow more peace during his three years. Maybe he even stepped down from the counsil to let non-hextech-victor take his place for a few years until this victor just dies from his illness On the corruption-timeline: Without Jayce telling Victor about Magic-Victor, Ekkos anomaly-bomb would at best blow up the main anomaly and at worst do nothing. Everybody get's assimilated and yeah... evil-hivemind-victor doesn't have any goals beyond stopping suffering anymore. Killing his human side also killed ambtion and creativity, so he would just meditate in a dead world, surrounded by dead dolls

[@TheMythicPulse]

Been watching you grow quickly since the end of episode 6 keep killing it dude

[@entgrove]

Thanks Mythic!! :)

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

I wouldn't say that future Viktor comes from an acceleration rune timeline. No matter which rune Viktor hands over, everything happens (almost) exactly the same. That means Jayce ends up with the hammer in that position. But if he hands over an acceleration rune, Ekko develops the Z-drive and stops Viktor. But Viktor can't actually know which runes have already been handed over, he only knows the rune that his predecessor handed over. That means Viktor doesn't just create a new timeline through time travel, he hands over all the runes at the same time. All possible timelines are created in parallel.

[@invisiblegank]

the acceleration rune can still be discovered victor does not have to give it to them

[@i7bwn]

The lost acceleration timeline could have been one where ekko decided to stay and be happy with powder.

[@thedeep436]

Just an idea for another video on Arcane: a comparison between Victor's grand vision discourse in Arcane and Ultron's from 'Era of Ultron' as both seems to be this cold judge of humanity from a perspective of a more 'evolved being' but both lack in compassion and base their assumptions on a simplistic duality of mind/order X emotion/caos insight. And also you could do a parallel between Avenger's Dr. Destiny looking onto all possible variable future outcomes and find just the right one and Victor's pursuit of the 'one outcome as well.

[@entgrove]

I’m gonna try to write a script around this an see how it turns out Thanks Deep!

[@thedeep436]

@@entgrove Thank you for even considering my suggestion! Just to add another narrative for comparison, the Architect speech to NEO, in Matrix Revolution, about choice, illusion, control, and all possible outcomes already been seen and tested by the 'arrogant supermind'. In the Matrix, is this love for a woman (emotion) that leads to neo's choice and in Arcane is jakes love for a friend.

[@austinfehr9793]

Does this mean every time Ekko goes back he is just creating a new timeline? That would explain the world with the acceleration rune but was still a failure, it was one of the ones Ekko left behind after using the Z-Drive.

[@entgrove]

Honestly I think that timeline may be where Commune Viktor doesn’t fuse the acceleration ruin to his wrist but I’m honestly not sure. I don’t think Akko’s Z-drive works the same as Conclave Viktor time travel though

[@ertagon]

2:30 M word. It doesn't have to be an acceleration rune for Ekko to return. They just needed the anomaly which they could have created with any rune, it doesn't have to be the acceleration rune. That's why the Viktor + Anomaly combo is created in other timelines regardless of Viktor-prime's rune choice. The other runes would probably have different effects. Then perhaps Ekko uses that other effect to save Jinx but it doesn't work in the final battle against Viktor. So it doesn't have to be an acceleration timeline.

[@Xicor111]

Without acceleration rune they dont create Z drive/timetravel. is it so hard to understand?

[@ertagon]

@Xicor111 it doesn't have to be an acceleration rune. Is it so hard to understand?

[@KristenNicoleYT]

In the alternate timeline it doesn't look like hextech was ever developed, so I don't really agree with your theory about that. I think it's possible that in creating multiple timelines, Victor created a chance for things to go differently outside of the changes he himself made. Overall still like the video and enjoyed hearing your thought process!

[@horrorfan117]

So... a theory. What if the future Jayce traveled to was the one the same time line as the one Echo and Heimerdinger went to? Its an acceleration rune time line, but without an Echo with the Z-Drive they lose.

[@NetworKrakle]

Interesting, but Jayce wasn’t there either. Heimerdinger confirmed has much.

[@entgrove]

Its interesting to think about! But I don't think they every reach that point where they need something like an Ekko Z-drive

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

There is no 1st timeline. Future Viktor has always traveled back. You have to think in terms of infinity here. There is no 1, only infinity-1, infinity, infinity+1 and so on. The time loop begins with the time travel. The future happens first and has already happened (Yes, cause and effect can be reversed when traveling through time.). So Godviktor cannot simply travel back because he cannot change his own past. But he can take Future Victor's place and give Jayce another rune. The hammer from the future is also infinitely old. It is brought back from the previous timeline each time and then passed on to the next Jayce.

[@ertagon]

This video is the result of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

[@furfrugurl5215]

Yesss been waiting for your Jayce video ❤🎉

[@LungKing5]

When Heimerdinger goes back it looks like he spent that time trying to connect with the people. It is unlikely Jayce ever made it onto the council in this timeline due to how the heist happened. I would not attribute any difference in this world to how Heimerdinger spent his three years. The reason why Victor guided things in this direction can be interpreted from him saying to Jayce "You're the only one who could show me this." It wasn't necessarily to prevent the most suffering, but to teach himself this lesson. I don't think there is enough information to speculate on why the main timeline is different to the one Jayce was sent to. Seeing Jinx's ship in the future timeline is not enough to speculate on what rune was given. If giving Jayce a different rune changes the timeline a lot, then who is to say that what Jinx's life trajectory is like. Maybe she builds the ship anyway. There are also infinite ways in which Victor can change the trajectory of each timeline after giving the rune, considering that we see him continue to interfere with these timelines by transporting Jayce and Ekko. Maybe the future Jayce never went time traveling himself. We never see his leg, so maybe his hammer is his original one mutated by Victor's ascension.

[@gem9061]

I thought the future timeline jayce went to didn’t have the acceleration. When ekko talked about the inversion of jayce’s acceleration rune, it was about the creation of the Z drive which ultimately was the reason everyone was saved, so i thought the future one didn’t have that rune

[@entgrove]

Thought that to but that ship slammed into the clocktower says otherwise 👀

[@jamesbuijs6742]

​@@entgrovein that acceleration timeline maybe javye is also sent back in time with ekko and himmer and therefore doesn't actually get the same message and vision that causes current timeline Viktor to stop and listen to jayce that's why they lose.

[@thedeep436]

The cause of one thing its all the other things.

[@pcaetano93]

Isn't it a paradox? How would Jayce and Viktor come up with Hextech without having a strong experience with magic? Not only magic but the runes themselves are only known because of Viktor's intervention.

[@Pringlessingles]

Maybe the alternate universe being the best timeline wasn't really thought out all that well. Personally, I think its sole purpose was to show just how much Ekko is willing to give up for the sake of Zaun and to show that its might be impossible for both Jinx and Vi to ever be happy if they are involved in each others lives. I know some say its to show that Vi was the true jinx all along, but I don't think so. The universe is quite literally one where all the adults make the right, mature decisions and didn't pass down the trauma to their children. As for why future jesus Viktor seemingly doesn't believe the alive vander universe is the perfect one, maybe he doesn't know it exists. I think the jesus Viktor world, the one where everyone is dead, is the true, original timeline. In this timeline, Jayce survived without Viktor's help but his mom probably dies. Maybe she sacrifices herself for him and its why he is slightly edgier. He still creates hextech with Viktor but in the end Viktor goes apeshit and does the whole glorious evolution thing. After all that, Viktor realises he is wrong and he somehow travels back in time to save jayce AND his mother. Maybe its like a gift to Jayce as he hopes having his mother in his life can help him somehow or it was really just a gift to his best friend. Viktor is not an omniscient god that can see all timelines at once so maybe he really doesn't know about the happy timeline. So the way I see it is, we have the OG bad timeline and viktor travels back in time creating a branch timeline. This connects the Bad/OG timeline with the current Arcane timeline. The Happy timeline is disconnected from it all. Its just like its own separate line and was prob created at the same time as the Arcane timeline so the 2 have been developing simultaneously. Why does Jayce get pushed into the OG timeline and Heimerdinger and Ekko gets blasted into a completely separate timeline? Idk, could just be no reason, it just is what it is. This still does bring up the question of wtf happens to jesus Viktor. Is he just like alone in the hellish OG timeline? I mean technically, he could travel back in time again and do like you said, tell Heimerdinger, Vander, silco, etc what to do and essentially recreate the happy timeline, he just doesn't know bout it. Also your point bout killing Jayce as a child does make sense but its the same as doing the whole, "would you kill baby hitler?". LIke I prob wouldn't. I can't kill a baby and Viktor, who likely just got his humanity back, prob wouldn't wanna kill his best friend.

[@avoidedcoast]

So my theory is there are an infinite amount of possibilities like so even in the timeline where we did get the acceleration Ruin let’s say victor doesnt fuse the ruin to Jayce wrist he Jayce drops it they lose

[@entgrove]

Yep! I was saying its possible that jayce drops it in my How Arcane Ends video! Maybe I should have included that again here

[@ckxii122]

Heimer didnt helped Jayce in the No Vi timeline since Vi's death certainly made Jayce get sentenced to Stillwater or he jumped off the bridge as shown in S1 Act 1. As to why the 1st Acceleration Rune timeline failed because the Z drive wasnt invented. As to why Viktor wanted JAYCE to deliver the message and not EKKO and Heimer is obviously because only Jayce can convince Viktor, you think he gonna listen to some nobody from Zaun and a failed Teacher? Its shown that if Hextech was never invented nor the prototype hexstones Zaun and Piltover will still have their constant war with one another so Viktor needed the Hextech to be created.

[@reimerjulian7772]

How can Victor go back in time again and give Jayce another Rune each time. Does that mean he is getting so powerful to do that in every Single timelapse?

[@YusufDemir-jq3qp]

I think you missed 2 things. 1. lets assume jayce survived in the First Timeline without Viktor, which is very unlikely, then he would never get the Rune and so have no clue of the arcane. He could not come up with the idea of something Like the arcane, when he does not get the Rune. So the paradox with how Viktor got a time traveler without giving the Rune jayce in the First Timeline is still given. 2. if the timeline, jayce got sent to was also one with the accleration Rune, then this would have also ended like our timeline ended, because jayce, heimerdinger and ekko would have been sent to the other Timelines

[@lozza1853]

1. he didn't miss this, he justified it by saying jayce might have been fueled by his mother's death to explore the arcane - to resurrect her? to go back in time? or maybe he just had a separate interaction with it, read about it in a book, etc... i also don't think its unlikely he survived. sure, we dont know where he is or why he's there in the blizzard, but he wouldn't be out in the middle of nowhere. there'd have to be shelter nearby, a town, something, or else they simply wouldn't be there. when jayce's mother collapsed and they were both saved by viktor, jayce was physically 100% okay, so it isn't a stretch to say that he found a safe place. 2. he also didn't miss this, he just acknowledges it isn't explained by his theory. if we're saying it's something other than a plot hole, i don't think it has to be that complicated. maybe jinx was just motivated differently? don't see how, but you never know. another comment says: "The reason why there's an acceleration rune timeline where we lose is because Jayce lost his bracelet, and didn't have the rune on him when he was assimilated. that's why victor fuses it to his wrist in the final timeline, so that it assimilates with him, and he can give it to victor in the void." but as i replied to their comment, i dont agree. jayce having the acceleration rune just allows them to blip away, viktor had already decided to stop by that point. i agree, though, that this doesn't make sense.

[@IngeniusSoul]

Am I the only one wondering why the Viktor in season 1 episode 2 saving kid Jayce and her mother looks like a mage that casts runic incantations like a traditional mage benefiting the gift of mages, while appearing like completely unmarked by the anomaly designs and colors like he has in the season 2 finale ? And why does this season 1 episode 2 flashback shows us this traditional mage holding the world of Runeterra in his hand, while the final Viktor of season 2 is shown holding the anomaly in his hand ? We must also explain how this "Viktor", if it is the same Viktor... if it is Viktor at all, is shown unbounded to the anomaly. Viktor is not a mage as far as I know, he doesn't get the gift. But there still control the arcane. I have no clue what's going on with this version of Viktor >_

[@jg_1901]

So the original timeline is one we don't see but its where the cloaked victor comes from, this cloaked victor has succeeded in his goals but regrets what he has created with his power. But this isn't the "final evoloution" victor right that has the different appearance at the end of the show. That victor only happens after he is shot by jayce in s2 ep 6 and the events that follow which didn't happen in the original timeline. Its then this original cloaked victor that is responsible for the many other branching timelines, one of them being the main timeline of the show, where jayce was given his accaleration rune. The main reason the acceleration rune timeline works is because it allows for Ekko to create his machine that results in the final episode where final evoloution victors face gets destroyed allowing jayce to talk to victor, and they decide to destroy the wild rune and the power that comes from it. Please tell me if this is roughly the idea or if im missing something.

[@jg_1901]

Just thought some more, if what I said is true how did the original victor get the power of the wild rune if their was no cloaked victor to allready give jayce any rune. Yeah thats the one part I have no idea about how did jayce still invent hextech if no cloaked character saved his mother.

[@ryanfitzalan8634]

there are many unanswered dilemmas. How does Viktor know to go back and save Jayce? how does he know to give him a rune? how does he know that changing what rune he gets will alter things, why is that the factor of consideration? how is Viktor able to see time and say that nothing else ever changes the outcome, but heimer created a timeline where the outcome was changed without viktors fuckery? the only explanation is that there must be many otuher timelines where other things happen, but why did lonely Viktor even give a shit to do anything for another timeline?

[@entgrove]

Someone else said which makes somewhat sense. Its that Viktor is trying to create a timeline without the glorious evolution but him and Jayce survive 🤷‍♂️

[@lamelonlord1854]

Man I’m even more confused… 😂

[@entgrove]

That was not my intention for this video 🤣

[@lamelonlord1854]

I think it's cause I've been watching multiple theory vids about this timelines, time travel, dimension travel that my brain is just kinda fried

[@aaronvoss2682]

I’m so confused but I get parts

[@entgrove]

I mean its confusing in itself whenever you start messing with timelines hah. I did my best, hope it helped a little and hope we dont go messing with any timelines in the future Runeterra Netflix shows

[@Kywu]

TLDR: WE STILL DONT KNOW AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[@kevind3974]

for time travel its not really that hard victor or someone connected to victor figured out hex tech and started him on his path. this probably then happened a few more times in other alts till we ended up with the old victor we got. that victor then went back in time and found people he knew would be able to make hex tech. reason he did this is because hex tech is a fixed point and thus will alwase happen in one way or another. he probably jumped around a couple people as he shifted thru time droping off the inition key and then waited at the end of time to see who made it. jayce was the most consistent and best at bringing him back from the brink thus why he focused so much on him. he did however most likely miss powder and defiantly echo as a sane powder was shown to be able to properly control/not use hex while victor never meet echo till echo threw a time machine into his face. echo and powder were an outlier. the outlier he ironicaly enough was looking for this whole time but because he never looked in his own neighboorhood past his childhood (he defiantly gave the key to sky and singed. they failed) he missed two of his best and brightest options. that is of course till echo steped in himself do to victors medaling with time and gave powder the tip on jayce unknowingly starting this route and also unknowingly ending it for good.

[@MuodyAMPH]

Its impossible to solve fucked up timeline.

[@ertagon]

3:30 I am pretty sure that Heimerdinger didn't just travel 3 years back. He travelled centuries.

[@frankieconcepcion7860]

1000 or so days is about 3 years

[@ertagon]

@@frankieconcepcion7860 Was it 1000 days? I thought it was 1000 years. Not 100% sure of it tho but I suppose 1000 days would make more sense.

[@eliaturrini2493]

You're the GOAT as always

[@usaydomarabdulkadir1369]

nice Video

[@MemeSociety]

Let's go

[@EmmettFlo7]

Is it possible in timeline 1 there is a snow mage that saves Jayce, that snow mage just isn’t Victor?

[@entgrove]

It really could be anything. Someone else saving jayce. Maybe jayce leaves his mom and runs to a village to try and get help for them. He just has to survive without Viktor in the original Viktor timeline!

[@Jasmin-lg3gf]

You don't need a first timeline. In time travel, cause and effect can be reversed. So it all starts with Viktor's time travel. In the causal chain, the future happens first.

[@sandralofgren8266]

Even when Jayce got the acceleration rune, Jayce isn't the variabel needed to stop Victor; Ekko is. So in the timeline Jayce visits maybe Ekko didn't manage to return or chose to stay or something. It has to do with Ekko nonetheless, and not with Jayce and his rune (as that alternative timeline shows).

[@entgrove]

That alternate timeline has the ship so ekko must have made it back to save jinx. Maybe Viktor didn't fuse the ruin to his wrist and jayce ends up loosing it or something

[@sandralofgren8266]

@@entgrove Right, forgot he made it back 😂 well, could be any little thing, like him getting hit of one of the evolved at the wrong second, who knows. I think the rune on the wrist is essential for Victor and Jayce's "survival" (transportation, whatever happened there) from the dream world, but maybe not to stop Victor. We see that Jayce almost gets evolved anyways, just Ekko stopping it at the perfect moment and also breaking Victor's mask. I don't think Jayce would have been able to get through to Victor without his humanity "slipping back" when the mask broke. But this is all speculation 😁 fun, though!

[@tee_win]

Why wouldn’t Jayce also die along with his mother in timeline #1 where no one saves them?

[@entgrove]

Who knows, maybe someone else comes along. Maybe he leaves his mother and makes it to a local village

[@chaoticstarfish3401]

If Viktor never saved Jayce, Viktor would not have his powers, so it's a bootstrap paradox: Viktor only exists the way he does because of his future self, perpetually creating a different timeline by jumping into the past to ensure the future. That is, unless the timeline-jumping Viktor we see was created in completely different circumstances, but there is nothing that implies that, and that'd lead to the question: How would Viktor, then, know to save Jayce and his mother, if that never happened originally?

[@tee_win]

Your last question is precisely what is most confusing about this time travel stuff. Since Viktor is the one that saves Jayce, who then creates hextech leading to the end of humanity, how does Viktor even become the mage in the first place? I think the answer to this is that regardless of Jayce’s fate in the snowstorm, hextech comes into creation through some other means which allows Viktor to become Arcane Jesus in the first place

[@samehere310]

@@chaoticstarfish3401but it is not a bootstrap paradox. the bootstrap paradox is predetermined but we can see the ekko jinx timeline where everything is fine, its a multiverse. with multiverse you can have infinte branches of variables and everytime a timetraveller intercepts it, it creates a new timeline. its also explains why mage viktor is not dimension hopping it would create too many variables. and he doesnt really need to he has complete mastery over arcane magic and he can calculate and predict timelines through the runes. my guess is he just calculates for the most oppurtune moments when jayce comes in contact with arcane magic to teleport him to his timeline and hand him diff runes or give him a hammer stuff and a pep talk lol. just like he waited till jayce came in contact with the hexcore to teleport him in ep 7

[@chaoticstarfish3401]

@@samehere310 The bootstrap paradox is different from the predestination paradox: the former is regarding something that exists in the future going into the past and causing its own existence (which would be arcane Viktor), whereas the predestination paradox is about a self-fulfilling loop, where some time-travel-related event triggers someone to act in a way that makes that already-set future to happen. They are similar, but the key difference here is that the bootstrap paradox does not necessarily imply a set future, only the paradoxical existence of something that could only exist because of the interaction it had with the past. Simply put: there can be no "starting point" for arcane Viktor, because he created himself, but that does not inherently imply anything about the future.

[@JeffreyDonn]

With this jumbled up mess of timelines, there are many timeliness where Jinx might reunite with Isha😃, 🥲😢 Oh I miss that child so much.