Solving the problem of dynamic range

[@markbell9742]

I mostly listen to Classical and Operatic Arias and like to do so while driving, but since I drive a truck (clunk-clunk, wind and tire noise) I love 'gain riding'. Otherwise I would miss half of the music. So I 'make' truck music that I have run through Audacity boosting the lows and bumping down the highs. OK, not how it was performed or mastered, but I can hear it all in "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" with little volume fiddling. So a little off from your topic; but thought I'd throw it in. Cheers, Mark

[@proffski]

Dynamic range and dynamic contrast. The holy grail!

[@mydogskips2]

God bless you.

[@kellyfaulkenbury1787]

That's the magic of a live performance. You can't put technology or price in a live performance, it will never happen. True sound reproduction is you playing in a live band. Priceless.!!!!

[@Si1983h]

My first big upgrade in this regard came from upgrading to active crossovers (in a Linn system), the system became much more transparent. The most significant upgrade was getting a dedicated listening room in a detached property. When the door is closed, I’m pretty much isolated from external noise and I can hear so much more for it... next step for me is to get the acoustics in the room as near to perfect as possible, it’s pretty good as it stands but I know it can be better.

[@jonathansturm4163]

That man's having fun! :-)

[@BlankBrain]

Not mentioned, is the possibility of the listener's hearing not being up to par. As some of us age, we lose some low-level sensitivity or become more sensitive to loud passages. In that case, it would be nice to have an app that tracks volume control changes and stores them as metadata. When the music is subsequently played, the custom gain-riding could be applied.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@ BlankBrain I had the opposite problem back in the days of vinyl - too little contrast caused by over-compressed records. So I built my own compander; I was too poor to afford a dBx. It worked well enough, but you needed to note the parameters on the record sleeve and working out those parameters was a PITA. When I digitised my vinyl it was still a PITA, but I had a permanent recording with the amount of expansion I preferred. Your idea of meta data would be even better: one setting if you're playing background music and another for focussed listening.

[@machintelligence]

Yes indeed. Right from "I can't hear you" to "you don't need to shout."

[@johnbaker6461]

So glad to hear you praise the SFO/Tilson-Thomas recordings of Mahler. They are my favorites, even topping Bernstein's in some cases.

[@42ssh]

Using a test CD tone like 1kHz at -15 dB and a sound pressure meter, adjust your audio volume to 80dB SPL; which means the loudest passage in a music will be 95dB SPL. 95dB SPL is a reasonably loud sound at home. If you want a concert hall like loudness in orchestral music, turn up the volume to hit at least 105dB SPL.

[@luke78333]

I think this question also touches on a few extra things that weren't mentioned. I've heard it said a few times and agree that if there are any faults in a system they will become very apparent when the volume gets really cranked. Things like speaker/amp distortion, bottoming out, room modes/uneven frequency reproduction, cabinet colouration all rear their ugly heads with the volume up. Ever heard a good system, then turned to the person next to you and realised you can't hear yourself speaking and you never thought to yourself it was up that loud? Is there something to this?

[@jonathansturm4163]

One of your best vlogs yet, Paul. Not just Mahler, Brahms' _Ein deutsches Requiem, nach Worten der heiligen Schrift_ nor just classical King Crimson _Lark's Tongues in Aspic_ I suspect most people don't realise how much of a role background noise plays here. You tend to not notice. Headphones are quite revealing here and I imagine noise-cancelling ones even more so. I am lucky in that respect as my home is rural and except in the spring and autumn when the equinoctial gales are blowing, very quiet. Speculating, I'd say speakers that focus the mid and high frequencies to a sweet spot are superior to those with wider dispersion. Reflected sound could be perceived as noise. A few strategically placed sound absorbing panels could potentially improve things.

[@rolandrohde]

All true. For me, most recordings have too little dynamic range...but there are exceptions of course! The thing is...your room has to be quiet, and distraction free. Since I moved my Home Theatre to the cellar where I now have a small but comfortable room, I really notice how intrusive even small noises can be. If I'm all alone down there, it's just heavenly quiet. One thing though...in a small room, even with acoustical treatment, sound above a certain level will not work, because too much "pressure" builds up in that room due to reflections. So there is a limit to what level one can comfortably listen at, depending on the room size...

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@rolandrohde You also lose the bottom end a lot in smaller rooms. My system occupies a rather large room that combines living, dining and kitchen and we call it The Great Hall. I do enjoy smooth, extended bass.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

For the (aspiring) DIY crowd , the Thiele Small parameter you are looking for in your drivers is Rms aka mechanical losses . A low Rms value can be achieved by a low moving mass (light cones) or Mms coupled with a high Qms value . This results in adriver with great resolution at low listening volume . Another tip is to use full range dipoles : dipole bass at high volume (bass drum orgies) can in my experience be more tolerable to the human ear because dipoles do not pressurize the room .

[@ekner]

I've been a rather quiet speaker listener in my everyday life for years now and can vouch for what you're saying about full range speakers, if I understand you correctly. I have some fostex fullrange drivers with super light cones, and I find them almost more satisfying the lower the volume. In a good way - not saying I turn them down because of how they sound.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@ekner Know what you mean. It's one of the reasons I regretted getting rid of my 8 inch twin cone home-built speakers back in the 1970s. I was never _really_ happy again until I acquired my VAF DC-Xs that gave me my dynamic range back. A frequent comment from non-audiophiles is "they sound loud without _being_ loud". I don't think I've really appreciated what the "magic" was until today's "Ask Paul". I spend more time listening than analysing my system...

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

@@ekner Yes , full range drivers , like fostex , typically need to have very light cones (for hig freq response) and light suspensions but also small X-max capability. Hence these will resolve quite well on low volume , but they do need a very efficient horn enclosure to compensate for the limited air displacement (X-max) in the bass . Horns can add up to 10 db in max volume compared to a classical closed or vented design . That is why horns are so popular in PA. But what I really meant by "full range dipoles" is rather a dipole where the bass (and sub bass) is also generated by a dipole (sub)woofer. Most commercial dipoles are only dipole radiators above 150 Hz or so . They are complemented in the bass by a closed (or vented) monopole subwoofer . As such these speakers will pressurize the room at bass frequencies . There have been a few commercial open baffle speakers with open baffle bass and sub bass . The Jamo Reference R 909 and R 907 come to mind . These speakers by design create a net zero pressure in the room and my experience with all the dipole ( open baffle) woofer and subwoofer speakers I have built is that my ears are much more tolerant(as in less painfull) for high dynamic peaks from dipole subs as opposed to classic monopole subs. My best guess is that the lack of room pressurization is causing this . So a speaker that remains a dipole radiation over the "full range" , be it 1-way, 2way, 3-way or 4-way, should be able to deliver high dynamic peaks without much pain to the ear and that has been my experience so far . The bass part is the most important part as the highest dynamic peaks are concentrated around 50 Hz in most music IIRC.

[@danielhillwick8430]

It's much much more than cone material that makes a revealing driver. From my years of experience designing and building drivers, it's all about efficiency. There is so much more then cone material to achieve efficiency in a speaker. For instance voice coil design. Gauge, shape and how its wound as well as what type of former the coil is wound on. The key is a light gauge flatwire edge wound with a very tight gapp between the voice coil and the motor with the combination of many other things makes an efficient driver.

[@bc527c]

I'll just be a broken record... Acoustics. I mean, I understand the guys dilemma completely, having been there... and with my current system, during the dark years, which were the first 12 years I owned it (and the 35 years before that while I dreamed of having a fine stereo) before I learned about and did up the acoustic treatment in my room, I used to have to turn my system up to -10 db to be able to 'read' the musical content (that is darned loud, as in the setting I use for -loud listening- now). Now I have used it from -60 on up.... Bad Acoustics will ruin everything, and from what I've learned almost nobody has a well treated room and I seriously doubt many people have tweaked their room to the level of detail I have, and every step forward in my acoustical tweeks has yielded audible improvements... Had I followed the advice of every hardware guru out there I would have new speakers and still have shit sound and I would have spent thousands more dollars for the privilege of continuing my deep metaphysical disappointment) If you do not have sound that simply blows your mind many times a day when you listen, and you can't find a single frequency that doesn't sound 'right' and you have good gear, then bad acoustics are robbing you and you should focus on that for a few years before you ever think of getting new bits of major gear.

[@volpedo2000]

Hey Paul have you ever listened to the recording from Sheffield’s Labs of Japanese drummers Kodo? The dynamic range is incredible.

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Yes, I know it well!

[@johto]

Oh man, just looked up San Francisco Symphony on Tidal ..i have have a Audirvana player hooked to Tidal and using Replaygain normalization and it measures POSITIVE gain numbers on these recordings! Talk about dynamics to spear. 😱 Some jump factor for sure with my 99dB sensitive horn speakers + subwoofer 👍

[@maximum805]

For me, i feel the problem to be the ambient noise coming from outside of the listening space invading and overriding the sound from the speakers. What hesler hayes says is all so true. When the refrigerator kicks in, that noise will interfere and if loud enough, will override the dynamic range of the music. If i were to listen to Mahler's 3rd in my listening room at 3 pm, when the ambient noise from the outside of my house is at it's loudest, i too would have to raise and lower the volume. Take the same situation, but now listen at a more quiet time of day, say at 9 pm, then i can enjoy the full dynamic range.

[@lcarliner]

It likely that the system in question may be distorting at the high end of of dynamic range level. Subjectively, distortion adds to perception of volume. It the past when I had a system comprised of a double Air of KLH-9 electrostatic speaker system, driven by custom built high wattage Futterman designed OTL tube amps., Berning TF-10 preamp, Sony DC motor drive turntable, Rabinowitz straight line tracking turntable with the Decca 4RC pickup mounted, it was quite easy, especially with Classical Period symphonic music to turn up the volume to hearing damaging levels with hardly any distress, as was confirmed with a sound level meter. Generally, sound volume to the point where normal conversation level is drowned out is risky. Also, I have found the sound quality of early compact digital disks with complex, orchestral symphonies, like the final movement of Beethoven 9th symphony to be congested, shallow and shrill. Also too many solid state electronics products also contribute to unpleasantness.

[@mostirreverent]

I used to have to have one track mauler's 2nd with the soprano stop before the next crashing bit… Got to see the BSO do it too.

[@garysmith8455]

Davies Hall, Davies Hall! (Lots of MULTI mics setup I'm afraid Paul)....There IS a video of the Mahler 8th rehearsal, and there are TRUSSES setup over the stage.......lighting? No, for MICS !! EEEEK! Tonight, I just finished doing a closed LIVE session of 5 pieces for the great Skinner organ in a large church here in my town. It was freshly tuned and made available for a silent film this past Saturday evening, so it was time to make a new recording while the heat was still on etc.... Great dynamic range from that instrument........ How many mics did I use ?? One SINGLE POINT STEREO, 4 pews back down the center isle, 15' high. Recorded in 96/24 resolution... Less is more, and I really wished we could here more orchestras recorded this way, few and far between......

[@42ssh]

Even though there are many mics on the stage, it's still possible to use a main coincident mic pair mostly and spot mics sparsely. It all depends on the recording engineers, right? I agree that less is more in miking. I love old EMI classical recordings and really hate DG's multi mike recordings of 70s.

[@garysmith8455]

Yes, you are correct there, and I find that many engineers use the Decca Tree and not a near coincident pair.. Still, as soon as you say 'mixer', it is NOT stereo any more )O: I use a single MS mic of quality (yes, I know, probably cheating stereo since it is matrixed) I was very happy with the results when recording a 70 piece symphony orchestra a few years ago. I have demoed my kit for friends with that recording and I don't tell them anything about it. I get such a kick when I bring out the mic I used and their jaws drop in disbelief. Agree on EMI and those days of DG and HVK and..................... Gunter! And I MUST add here. I had much respect for Reference Recordings and 'Professor Keith Johnson' JUST LIKE PAUL does...........until I saw a video right on their website of him 'riding gain' DURING an orchestral recording! All my respect went out the window, it was VERY disheartening to see this, I thought he was just setting levels during a rehearsal, but it was the ACTUAL session!. I read a review of one of his recordings, and that person was very ticked that he could hear the string section level changing during the performance and this was NOT the recording in the video!

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

I used to keep hearing the phrase "Dark Background" and I always equated it to S/N, or analogous to what we call black level in video but my intuition tells me there is more to it. I think I know when I hear it but could never give it descriptive words. It seems to give the entire range of intensity in a recording a completely different texture and my left brain struggles with it. Input welcome.

[@42ssh]

You feel like it is quieter when the music is played if you have "dark background".

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

a too weak amplifier or too little resolving loudspeakers can both be the problem. Some speakers, like cervin Vega, are able to play loud, but they don't have the same resolving power as a Bowers and Wilkins speaker. etc.

[@beornthebear.8220]

My main speaker dynamic range issues are (1) the room needs to be very quiet, and (2) I don't blow my neighbors away, as I live in a condo unit. That's why I do most of my critical listening with headphones, but I still need to be careful, because it's easy to not realize how loud the headphones are, and can harm your hearing.

[@jonathansturm4163]

One observation not yet made in this thread is the amount of power available from the amplifier. Newbies often enough set the gain high to hear the quiet passages and consequently drive the amplifier into clipping. The clipped signal sounds louder than clean signal, not to mention shortening the lifespan of tweeters. An amplifier capable of two or three hundred watts output will not sound as loud as an overdriven 50 Watt amp but can be what is sought here. Paul is quite correct here to suggest delving into the issue with the listener.

[@johto]

99dB/1w sensitive horn loaded compression drivers fro the win !

[@HouseofRecordsTacoma]

The final product of most recorded music is limited dynamic range. Picture of the groove at cannon shot in 1812 Overture shows limits of vinyl. DDD CD's have that described problem. In my opinion, the problem is not fixable (apologies to DBX).

[@audiorick841]

Great explanation Paul.

[@homeboi808]

Room treatment would help reduce the noise floor, making those quiet patches easier to hear.

[@yaniv-nos-tubes]

i suggest any ecm (70's record label founded by manfred eicher)record for natural sound. gold standards for people who don't listen to classical music.

[@CoolDudeClem]

Someone needs to sort out the dynamic range problem for watching KZbin videos as the sound on some videos is way louder than on others, and on some KZbin videos it's barely audible. Windows 7's loudness equalization fixes that for me, I dont think Mac or Linux (which I wish to use as my main OS one day) have that option.

[@jonathansturm4163]

I tried using Cinnamon Mint on my HTPC, but had insuperable problems with sound* and playing DVDs. Windows 7 has none of the problems. The only problem with Windows 7 is MS trying to force me to downgrade to Win10. Fskers! * The gain control was more of a distortion control. There was a sweet spot where distortion was at a minimum and you could increase the distortion by lowering or increasing the gain. Go figure...

[@Cbbq]

In my case , the fridge kicks in and then those details are lost.

[@LordVictorHalgaard]

Know that one - my fridge is relatively quiet, but sometimes I just want to toss it out the window...

[@MrKeech666]

Please... I see your fridge and raise you 2 Lovebirds and a Senegal. 😆

[@DennisDWest]

With my former wife it was wind chimes. She didn't have to ask why I had taken them down.

[@carlitomelon4610]

I put mine on sorbothane feet. It helps. I let my wife pick out the fridge: BE WARNED most now come with a noisy fan that runs 50% of the time :-( Furnace forced air systems also constrict available dynamic range. You can turn them off, but don't get caught!

[@MrKeech666]

Fantastic advice my ears live by. Go to the loudest point you want and leave it. If you can't hear the soft passages and/or micro detail you better start looking at the "why". My first bit of advice will always refer back to the listener's room. Most good quality speakers and amps have enough resolve to render the full dynamic range, however their rooms, as quiet as they may be, simply are not set up for optimal listening. Furniture and carpet varieties absorb too much of the dynamics, not to mention everything on their walls, the insulation behind them, and uniformity of construction (i.e. a corner room with 2 walls concrete behind drywall, the other 2 are dividers), ceiling and floor types. It's just that in the majority of cases the listener can't afford to dedicate a room solely for listening to music, especially one large enough and set up to perfection. It may be logistically impossible, or lack or money/resources, regardless of the reasons some times people just have to make best with what they have to work with.

[@trevorcrowe7571]

Bansaku I found that most listening rooms I been in don’t have enough sound absorption. I recently added acoustic panels to mine and I now find I can listen to the very quiet sections without the loud sections overpowering the room into an echo chamber. The loud was clear and enjoyable.

[@MrKeech666]

@@trevorcrowe7571 Absolutely! I may not have mentioned it specifically, but dampening/absorption plays a huge role as well. Not just in front of the speakers but behind as well. There are many methods to achieve this (many great DIY vids out there) but the pre-made aesthetically pleasing and properly tuned panels are not cheap.

[@carlitomelon4610]

What no "SQUIRREL" moment? Will check out that Mahler. Thanks for staying on topic ;-)

[@littlegandhi1199]

Could the questioner tell us what song he was referring too as well?

[@rabokel]

Room treatment can make the loud passages sound less chaotic and more transparent.

[@markfischer3626]

This illustrates one major flaw in our sound systems. In a concert hall most of what you hear comes from reflected sounds. Even the perception of distance is the result of reflections. Were it not for those reflections the far away source would merely sound softer. Concert hall reflections due to their timing, angles of arrival, and persistence impart power and envelopment to sound. The same high level of loudness coming almost entirely from a pair of loudspeakers in front of you imparts an unpleasant blaring quality that is not characteristics of a symphony orchestra playing at fff in a concert hall. Sorry but that's the state of the art currently.

[@jonathansturm4163]

"an unpleasant blaring quality" Happily not something I can perceive with my current equipment; rather the opposite really. I'm glad I'm not a Golden Ears, or engaged in the endless pursuit of perfection. Just call me smuggums ;-) Not disagreeing with your observations about reflections, or their importance. Just the psycho-acoustics issue.

[@42ssh]

If you sit about 12 feet away from your loudspeakers in a listening room, you start to hear reflected sound as much as direct one. Of course our listening room is not a concert hall size thus we have all those small room problems. Some argue that it's better to have a dead listening room to hear less reflected sound or "reflection free zone" like setup. Don't forget that the reflected sounds in the original venue are also recorded and reproduced. A well recorded CD with coincident mike can let you hear the reflected hall sounds in your listening room quite realistically.

[@swinde]

An excellent piece of music that will test the dynamic range of your system is "Bolero" by Ravel. New York Philharmonic. Leonard Bernstein 14.39 min/sec. CD MLK 39439 CBS Masterworks Records. It begins very quiet and steadily builds until the climax at the end.

[@jonathansturm4163]

I prefer Leonard Bernstein with the Orchestre National De France, CBS Masterworks 1980, but recorded in 1975. I don't think it's been released on CD yet. Magnificent music from a master conductor.

[@pfjb9122]

Paul already mentioned Mahler 2 & 3, Bolero can't compete with that.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@pfjb9122 Which in turn can't compete with the 1812. It's widely acknowledged as the loudest classical piece because pyrotechnics. But then it's not a competition.

[@flowsouth8496]

The dynamic range has more to do with the recording than the piece of music in my opinion. An analogue recording like the one you mentioned by Bernstein will probably not have the greatest dynamic range. If you want truly extreme dynamic range try some BIS recordings, specifically the ones labelled "BIS original dynamics recording".

[@ericelliott227]

Looking for new gear first is not the answer in my opinion. I would recommend the questioner look at the room and set up first as you started to suggest at first. The room can have huge effect on dynamic range. Recordings of course are a big part of it too, but it sounds like he may be listening to good ones. Once the room is given a clean bill of health, if the problem persists, then yeah, depending on what speakers he is running, it might be time to look at different speakers. Amps and such (unless there is an obvious mis-match) and especially cables (unless inappropriate ones are being used) rarely have effect on dynamic range. In my opinion, it really all starts with the recording and the room.

[@jonathansturm4163]

"Amps... rarely have effect on dynamic range." I thought going from a ca. 20W amp to ca. 200W gave me a 10 dB increase in dynamic range.

[@ericelliott227]

@@jonathansturm4163 dB has little to nothing to do with dynamic range, but allows you to play louder if that is what you want to do. Still good though because what you do gain is headroom which does help in that you won't be risking clipping your amp trying to drive your speakers with 20wpc at moderate volume. Even though in electronics 1 watt is a good amount of power, my reference speakers are also highly efficient and claim to be able to be driven with 20wpc minimum, but I would not want to try that because they can also handle 350w. At 20w I would not be able to get them even to listening level without a high risk of clipping.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@ericelliott227 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

[@ericelliott227]

@@jonathansturm4163 I'm not saying you are entirely wrong, just don't confuse the way it is measured with what it actually is = the ability to retain and play back the frequency range without extreme compression which nothing to do with volume or pressure. I'm approaching this from a more pure physics stance though, so applied to audio, it may be a different looking animal.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@ericelliott227 Well I thought I was looking at this from a physics POV also, so I must profess myself clueless at this juncture what your point is. A sound wave consists of alternating compression and decompression of air, so it's all about pressure. Care to try again? I'm happy to learn new stuff even if I am an old fart whose last physics class was in 1969.

[@louisshambarger2230]

Paul- Yau listen to Mahler?!!!

[@stephens2r338]

Dynamic range = Available headroom/ power - room noise.

[@russredfern167]

Stephen Weare Does ringing in ears count?

[@ArnoldVroomans]

I always play as loud as my wife allows me too...

[@jonathansturm4163]

@NPC 363-7654-80521-Beta And some men wonder why their wives piss off when the kids are old enough to leave home...

[@jonathansturm4163]

@NPC 363-7654-80521-Beta Frankly I prefer a spouse that loves me to one that hates me. I'm very nearly crippled by arthritis now and would find it far more difficult to get to my doctors' appointments without her. My friends John and Ruth have the opposite problem. Ruth had a leg amputated about a year ago and John declared himself delighted. "Just think" he said: "I don't need a Zimmer frame!" When asked what the secret of my long relationship with SWMBO, I respond: "Find a woman who's worth obeying and you won't go wrong." On the rare occasions I have gone against her wishes, it has nearly always turned out she was correct and I was wrong. Her reasoning was undoubtedly faulty, but her instincts were spot on. So it goes...

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@sherloidbai7064 My wife knew what she was getting into when we decided to live together. I still have a happy wife, a decent sound system, ca. 2,500 album titles and ca. 1,500 books. SWMBO purchased the Oxford English Dictionary for my birthday some years ago and I got a real kick out of hearing an assistant at the shop that sold it to her say to another assistant: "That's the guy whose wife bought him the OED!" Oh yes, apart from organ music, my wife has very similar musical tastes.

[@42ssh]

I'm looking for a dynamically unconstrained wife :-)

[@jonathansturm4163]

@NPC 363-7654-80521-Beta You're probably correct. Lolling about the house all day listening to music while SWMBO's at work can be quite stressful at times. While I cook us a gourmet meal most nights, I do find it tiring watching her do the washing up and the ironing. It's a dog's life in some ways...

[@tacofortgens3471]

Have the loudest part set at around 90db. And you should be fine

[@mrpositronia]

As Paul says. Set the loudest part of the music to a level that is acceptable. And tell everyone nearby to be quiet. Also turn your fridge off. Just kidding.

[@jonathansturm4163]

"tell everyone nearby to be quiet" Shooting them when necessary. "Just kidding." :-)

[@42ssh]

The fridge is a part of your audio system that helps justify PS Audio Power Plant purchase.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@42ssh It also keeps the booze cold, so whatever you do, don't shoot it!

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

@@42ssh Buy a new fridge that doesn't make noise

[@hardcorecap]

Carl, your issue IS an argument for compression...BUT, then you lose that aspect and appeal of classical recordings, which is important to the piece. So, it needs to be dynamic. Do you need a new system? I wouldn't say so off the bat. Considering the nature of the last PS Audio vid, Paul's first line regarding the question made me chuckle. The concept of the home audio system is to reproduce recorded music, so , ideally what you're looking for is the feeling of actually being there. Notice how Paul makes the same reference and he too says it gets quite loud. The only issue I could imagine with your system would be a speaker or amp design that hypes mid-range. Depending on how your room is set up, it could be reflecting lots of mids to your listening position, making any loud passage that much louder once you factor in the fletcher-munsen curve. It seems like the remote is working, so keep using that remote my homie.

[@jonathansturm4163]

CAP I would find riding a remote more than a little distracting. I want my attention focused on the music I'm listening to, not a gadget.

[@hardcorecap]

@@jonathansturm4163 Sure, I would too. It's all up to Carl's compromises he's willing to deal with. He seems to be dealing with it fairly well, though. I doubt a new system will fix his issue. Dynamics speaker wise....ehhh, I'd guess is related to spider and surround compliance, driver BL, pole piece topology as well as voice coil size and hang, which has to account for the vast amount of T/S parameters of the whole driver, heavily affecting the output. So, I'm doubtful there's a driver out there specific to increased dynamic range. Plus, I haven't seen one as a selling point. I'd have to assume it's more a function of the amplifier due to dynamics being more related to dynamic range than driver design. And even then, dynamic range is measured against the noise floor, which for amplifiers is typically very low. Carl states it just gets too quiet then too loud. That tells me it's more related to the recording than anything else, and classical music is handled with soft baby gloves mix-wise. To put this in another perspective, I drive a 2006 Saturn Vue with the stock system and listen to classical on the local FM radio and I'm still caught off guard with the dynamic range of classical music. So, contrary to the "i'm not a salesman" video, my call is Paul is selling a system to a guy who doesn't really need it. The whole channel in itself is sales branding for PS Audio with Paul as a baby boomer "good ol' boy" figure head, but hey, at least it starts a discussion, which is what I'm usually here for. Now I'll chill till Larry pops in and gets offended.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@hardcorecap "The whole channel in itself is sales branding for PS Audio with Paul as a baby boomer "good ol' boy" figure head, but hey, at least it starts a discussion, which is what I'm usually here for. Now I'll chill till Larry pops in and gets offended." Yes it's branding, but I find the brand refreshing rather than offensive. And yes, I have learnt more than I expected from the discussions and it's that learning that keeps me coming back for more. As for Larry, I find people who get offended on others' behalf offensive, but that's just me.

[@hardcorecap]

@@jonathansturm4163 I can't deny the refreshness.

[@hardcorecap]

@Larry Niles LMAO made my day

[@whollymindless]

It could also be your hearing if you're getting "up there" in age...

[@usandthemx]

Decent speakers and equipment = no dynamic range problem. Yer welcome.

[@jefflashway6644]

Then add tinnitus to the mix and it get's exponentially worse.

[@johnyang799]

That's slow attack slow release

[@jonathansturm4163]

Fine for a crescendo, not so fine for a sudden change.

[@johnyang799]

@@jonathansturm4163 But manually change is basically it.

[@fookingsog]

Dynamics figures into the term "Programme Level: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_level ...or if you have to fiddle with your volume, mebbe yer just too damn old!!!😂😂😂

[@tomtaylor7292]

Stoned yet again & can't get the words out,,,?????? I don't no,,,,,!!!!!

[@jonathansturm4163]

More likely age-related. Happens to me all the time. Some of the drugs my doctors prescribe also have effects. Ivabradine (for my heart) induces LSD-like visuals for me, but its perfectly legal. Makes life "interesting"...

[@ProDigit80]

How can music recorded on a CD be uncomfortably loud? It only has a dynamic range of 96dB, which is slightly more than a loud conversation. And most LPs have even less (between 72dB for the base models, and 86 for the higher end models). Cassette tapes even less (60-70dB). If music on a CD is uncomfortably loud, it means the original play was that loud. Unless you are (like he said) in a room that's noisy, or have an enclosed room that bounces back the loud signals; or you play through a sound system that is translating those 96dB of loudness settings to a room where the max you hear is 64dB (you're essentially hearing 2/3rd the volume), I would agree, you'll need a different, more professional sound system. But if you are just playing back the music very softly (say at half the SPL the CD can put out; like 48dB; don't expect to be able to hear every dB, or even every 2 or 5dB on the record, without using at least some sort of compression)!

[@jonathansturm4163]

Muranaman You are confusing sound pressure level measured in dB (usually A weighted) and dB as a ratio. A loud conversation doesn't have a dynamic range, it has a sound pressure level of 60 dB. Symphonic music peaks around 120-137 dB. Subtracting 96 dB gives you a range 24-41 dB. IIRC a friend whose job was measuring SPL in different environments told me that the typical suburban home had a background noise level of ~40dB. You aren't going to hear sounds that are 16 dB below that.

[@ProDigit80]

@@jonathansturm4163 No one hears an orchestra at exactly 1 meters away. As you may know, dB drops every meter.

[@jonathansturm4163]

@@ProDigit80 I do and I think you are missing the point. The noise floor of importance is that of the environment in which you are listening. That sets the lower limit of what you are listening to. The higher that is, the more likely the loud orchestral parts are to drive your speakers and amp into their non-linear range. The important thing is the available dynamic range in those components, not so much that presented by the source.

[@ProDigit80]

@@jonathansturm4163 They're usually well mixed and mastered. At 24bit you probably could have the entire dynamic range, but at 16bit (96dB), there's still plenty more than what your experience would be sitting in the auditorium. On good gear, you'd be able to hear exactly what you'd be able to hear there. And if you can't hear the triangle bell at 150 feet, you probably should not try to make it audible on your audio system neither.

[@musicman8270]

Dynamic range control bad...

[@kellyfaulkenbury1787]

It's easy to buy equipment. It takes dedication to learn how to play music .

[@jonathansturm4163]

It also takes dedication to learn to fully appreciate music as distinct from merely liking it.

[@jamesrobinson9176]

Switch to records. There's less dynamic range

[@DennisDWest]

I know that most of you have better equipment than I do. I listen to quite a bit of vynil. In order to hear the lower passages better, I move, or turn off everything that makes too much noise.