Some Thoughts On Using Steady Rest and Milling Part End

[@chrisyboy666]

I'm 42 now started served my apprenticeship @ Rolls Royce aero,in the uk I was toolmaker by trade for the last 17 year I've been on the apps started @ Mazak then move to DMG now I'm @ WFL....this is only Chanel I watch and still learn something new......I've met many so called machinist programmers etc etc very few have you knowledge flair and capability to explain something so clearly and precise in a humble way kudos to you

[@jimdorman1550]

You kick it! You have a fancy machine. But some of of us, with old school junk still learn. Thanks!

[@jaredmaxwell2678]

I love these videos. Even a guy running a Tormach in his garage can learn. Information like this is why the internet is beautiful. Thanks!

[@NikColyerMachineWorks]

Thanks for explaining accurately centering a steady rest. Big learning piece for me today.

[@ilyaangere3152]

Great educational vid. CNC machinist with 24 yrs experience here.

[@timetodopatriotstuff2315]

The amount of set up and prep work you put in before you run the program is meticulous really enjoy your videos and willingness to share your years of knowledge.

[@rodfrey]

It's very cool to watch you play that machine like a violin. Thanks for putting the effort into these videos, I'm learning a lot.

[@EdgePrecision]

Rod Fitzsimmons Frey Thanks! Fitzsimmons was my mothers maiden name.

[@mickemazak]

As all yor videos, this one is really nice and interesting. Also want to say that Peter is one of the most skilled machinist with a lots of knowledge abut the tips and tricks of this trade. Just cant wait for next video episode of making this part.

[@JeffreyVastine]

Great points regarding the steady rest Peter. Thank you for sharing this.

[@timhoang]

Admired for what you have done. Didn't know you live in Houston. I'd love to come by and check out your shop.

[@chrisneale7453]

The depth micrometer with a digital readout looks very handy it helps with not reading the wrong number on the barrel.

[@davenicholson3491]

Love your work man . With the bow in the part, I’ve had similar problems with a 50 mm stainless shaft and it turned out to be the jaws of the 4 jaw where twisting the shaft because the jaws weren’t 100% square to the part. So I used machined soft jaws and it solved the problem.

[@akfarmboy49]

I like your steady rest, nice machine

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Great job. Great to watch. Thanks Peter.

[@yogisworkshop]

Great video! I really enjoy watching your chanel. Thank you very much for sharing, and keep'em coming.

[@imholdinout]

After watching this video multiple times I just now realized that once you get on the main road you do not have to turn off until your shop. That is a good commute for sure.

[@EdgePrecision]

It’s only four miles long. Houston is like that In many areas. Housing neighborhoods mixed in with industrial areas.

[@lorenlieder9789]

Very nice work Peter and good content.

[@tomharrell1954]

It is something to watch a master at work.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks Thomas!

[@BrowFinGarf]

The intricacy of the parts you make is unreal. Must take weeks to finish some of these things..?

[@LazyMcCrazy]

Make sure you calibrate your bore mics to read 0 when measuring on only a section of the mics foot. We found out the hard way! Get your mics ring gauge and simulate the step of the .130" step you're measuring, see if it still reads what the ring gauge is. You may already know this, just a heads up though, we scrapped a fair bit of work due to ours being about .0015 over at that depth, which is beyond your tolerance. Great work anyways!

[@LazyMcCrazy]

All due to clearance tolerances in the mic itself, when they are calibrated they are done so on the full depth of the mics foot.

[@EdgePrecision]

Josh Sisson You make a very valid point. I did check them. Some times we do things without thinking about it because it becomes a habit. Iike I said in the video when your making a video it's hard to remember everything. I general I don't care for this type of micrometer I would prefer a dial bore gage. This mic is almost brand new and very tight. Because of the way this is being milled with rotating the C axis the bore will be round. If I was milling a circle I would not measure it with these they won't check for out of roundness.

[@kisspeteristvan]

+1 for that i.d. micrometer foot . I did actually found it out the easy way , cause i checked it before , but i was like what the heck . The foot for 75-85mm(3"-3.4" ) mic is about 15 milimeters long , and the part was only about 4+2mm part+ cutoff tool . The micrometer jaws were only engaged about 40% , and boom 0.05 mm oversize about 2 thoulsands. When doing precise work even 5 microns matter .

[@martinszinbergs2073]

With the dimensions you are working to I assume that everything matters. I imagine that the radius of the contact surface of the steady rest jaws affects how they contact the part. I would guess that you'd want the jaws to have a bigger radius than the part to ensure that the contact point is in the middle of the part. Or, maybe it doesn't matter. Does it matter?

[@matthewferguson158]

Can you explain your decision making process on when to mill vs turn a bore/counterbore in your integrex?

[@EdgePrecision]

To give a simple answer. If there is a intermittent cut I would look at the possibility of milling. If there was something that prevented turning the part at a speed necessary for a lathe tool. Lets say a imbalance or the part could vibrate. Say I couldn't run a steady rest and turn. Something like that. Milling sometimes cant be done. Lets say a long bore is more difficult to do with boring heads than turning. But to turn the bore has to be in the center of rotation of the turning spindle. Those are a few reasons. But every job is different. Don't know if that helps.

[@billdlv]

Nice job Peter, those are really tight tolerances especially for a part that long and at the end like that. Those were great points to bring up on the steady rest. As for the sound I think it's OK but if you record sound with a lapel mic or a shotgun mic you might get better results. As for syncing up the audio/video Ted @ The Art of Photography has a good tutorial look for HOW TO SYNC VIDEO AND AUDIO IN FINAL CUT, PREMIERE CC AND IMOVIE.

[@GRTLRS]

Hope you continue with more videos on this part. From that little view of the drawing, it sure doesn't look easy. Will you show more on the operations and toolpaths to make those .437 bores and chamfers in detail AE5?

[@rupert5390]

Videos are terrific sound is good too - the parts you make seem pretty amazing - I assume you are known to people in the trade for your high precision work - it make a few of the other u tub era seem a bit dinky. (dinkey where british made toy cars) Many thanks really inspiring.

[@simexi]

Any ideas how to prevent chips going into (schunk) steady rest rollers? Normal wipers do not help. Turning chrome bars so...

[@EdgePrecision]

I take a plastic 5 gallon pail and cut the bottom out of it. Than take some dividers and set them for the diameter/radius of your stock minus a little. Scribe a circle deeply keep going around until you almost cut thru. Than take a razor knife and cut the disk out. What you are looking for is a snug fit on the OD of your bar (You may need to scrap it if necessary). Now push/slide it on right up to the steady rest. On my steady rest I took some silicon rubber sheet (the orange stuff) around 1/8" thick and cut some and clamped it between some sheet metal pieces screwed to the top arms. So that it seals/runs against the part for the width of the two top arms. With the rubber wiper/seals and the bottom of the 5 gallon pail (This rotates with the part and slings off shavings) up tight against the steadies jaws. This pretty much keeps shavings out of the rollers. even when milling if the plastic disk is on the milling side. Or you could put two disks one on each side.

[@simexi]

@@EdgePrecision Sure, been there, done something like that before, but "chip guard" should be mounted to steady jaws, perhaps. I mean something like iris mechanism is needed, OD varies between 25-110mm ... I've jaws that sprays coolant over rollers but not working very well...

[@EdgePrecision]

The coolant wont keep the chips out. The fact that the disk spins with the part is what makes it work. It slings chips/shavings away. I have also done this, if you just have to have the guard mounted to the arms. Make a guard with the largest hole than make smaller disks with the various sizes needed that will slide over the diameters, but the OD is larger than that hole. Get some large O-rings say 1/4" that you can stretch over the bars. Put one on, than the disk, than another. Now slide the whole thing up to your guard piece with the disk pinched between the o-rings. The guard could be held to the arms with magnets. This has also worked for me in the past. The combination of the coolant flush and this will work.

[@simexi]

@@EdgePrecision Okay. Problem is that this is robot line, so no manual loading. Fully automated loading etc. There's somekind of metal shield over the steady jaws and they block some of chips. The shield moves with jaws, so it is mounted. Basically we have guard but it needs improvements. And more testing, only turned few bars. But thx anyway, just thought that you may have somekind of new idea.

[@ytmachx]

What adjustment are you making at the 20 min mark? I see the hammer and the piece of metal bar you are hitting. I guess that you are lowering the steady rest because of the very close fitting radius in the side points? Is that right? Thanks Peter.

[@EdgePrecision]

I had to review that section of the video. The mount for the hydraulic steady rest has jack screws to move the body of the steady rest but only in the upward direction. The only way to move it down is to back off the jack screws and tap/hammer it down. With the bigger hydraulic steady the weight of it makes this easer. My shop made smaller sometimes requires brute force. Yes the jaws of the steady were bored too fit this part so just backing off the lower jaw didn't move the part. They were made that way because when the milling work is done they have to span some holes and slots. Not so much for the turning. For adjustability it would be better to have narrower jaws. With the top jaws hitting more on the top to push down on the lower jaw.

[@davidkusicki6531]

Nitronic 50, is that tough material to cut? I have a job coming up, simple turn part with tap hole in the middle. What would you recommend rpm,feeds and speeds be?

[@EdgePrecision]

I would start with around 150 SF (This is in feet if you are metric you will need to convert). That would be safe and you could speed it up as necessary, for the turning with carbide. If you are drilling with HSco drill I would not go over 40-50 SF. Depending on the tapped hole size. If it is on center-line on the lathe I would single point thread is if possible. Rather then tap. If you must tap get a good tap. This is not the place to economize on the tool. It will give you grief later. And use a good tapping fluid as well. I usually use a syringe to get it into the hole first. Not just put it on the tap.

[@davidkusicki6531]

@@EdgePrecision Thank you so much for the information!

[@GnosisMan50]

Yes, Peter, I have a question: your custom made steady rest fits perfectly on the diameter of your workpiece which can only be achieved by boring or machining out the three brass-end supports to accommodate a given diameter. I'm also assuming that the brass ends can be removed for additional sets of blank brass ends. But why not use instead a steady rest with roller bearings?

[@EdgePrecision]

In the case of this project the jaws have to span slots when the milling is done. For obvious reasons rollers won’t work for that. I did do a set of these parts but didn’t film that. When I started on this the customer had to cancel the job because of a engineering design problem. So I didn’t get to video the remaining milling. If you saw that you would have understood the jaws.

[@GnosisMan50]

Thanks, Peter and thanks for sharing your expertise. As a machinist myself, I'm learning a lot from you.

[@davidl.579]

Between centers?

[@davidl.579]

Shouldnt you check whilst rotating the part, better indication mode?

[@EdgePrecision]

I made this video a while ago. I'm not totally sure what you are asking. But if it's me running the indicator down the part to check for taper after turning it. It should be running true no mater what the rotation. If that's what you are asking.

[@augustindurdan7814]

Thank you for this great video. I have just one question: When you hit the steady rest, do you don't put some tress in the piece ?

[@stewartfrye]

did you reset your tailstock after adjusting it to compensate for tool wear?

[@EdgePrecision]

I constantly check the tailstock position for every setup. It's not something you can just take for granted when you need precision. This is a issue I try to impress on newer machinists. If it can go wrong you need to check it before cutting the material. Don't assume everything is correct. It only takes a few moments to prevent a problem.

[@desertforgeknifetool2142]

What were you hitting with the hammer and block, could not see opposite end. Heavy hammer blows to move .001 inch. Great job showing the finer points of accurate machining.

[@EdgePrecision]

I'm going to have to review the video before I can answer this question. I cant remember.

[@davestrong6472]

Sound doesn't really matter it's the content that's great.Dave

[@BillyTpower]

what were you adjusting with the hammer and why?

[@EdgePrecision]

On the mount of this steady rest there are jack screws that raise the steady rest. But there are none to force it downward. So in order to get it to move a little down, it is sometimes necessary to tap it with a piece of something and a hammer. In this case I was using a scrap of aluminum bar. Hitting it down on its mount with the mounts screws slightly tightened.

[@BillyTpower]

@@EdgePrecision ah ic thanks was curious

[@wheelitzr2]

I think a little piece of me died Everytime you smacked that giant hammer.

[@EdgePrecision]

I don't use a hammer often, But when I do its a big one. Hammer happy my friends.

[@amsterob]

how about a collar around the back of the bar to prevent whip instead of the steady rest.

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes that would work. But in this case I don't have any way to get it in the spindle. The spindle bore on this machine is 6.625 in diameter I would have to take the small chuck out of the large chuck than take the chuck jaws off the large chuck or open them. Than some how put the spacer-collar in the spindle bore and put everything back together. On a smaller machine your suggestion would be the way to go. on this machine its possible but with the chuck arrangement I'm using I went this way.

[@Bigwingrider1800]

Not that i know what Im talking about. But doesn't tail stock pressure have something to do with this bow in middle.

[@carabela125]

He is not using a tailstock on this op, just the steady rest. If there was tailstock holding it, yes, excessive pressure could cause it to bow.

[@mdergance3]

Why did you choose to mill/interpolate the end rather than turning it?

[@EdgePrecision]

There are two reasons 1. for some reason Mazak when they made this machine they gave it very little travel in the X minus direction. It has only 10 MM minus X before you hit the limit switch. 2. I could rough it and finish it while turning the C axis with the endmill. To do this turning with a boring bar would require a small diameter bar or shallow facing cuts with a larger bar. But than there's that X- travel limit again. I also would have to turn a higher RPM in the steady jaws witch I didn't want to do.

[@FredMiller]

New Sub! How did I not know about your channel?? I am retired and make scratch built stationary steam / air engines. I am always looking for new tips. Thanks for sharing.Fred Ontario, NY

[@EdgePrecision]

Always good to have a new sub, thanks! Hope you find something of use. Do you use CNC to build your engines?

[@FredMiller]

No CNC for me as of yet. If I come across a good deal in a smaller unit I may make the plunge. I have been binge watching your videos! Good info.. Thanks for sharing. Fred

[@normanj844]

Another great video Peter! Quick question: from what I have heard running an indicator upside down like when you indicated the end of the shaft can be a bit risky because flex in the holder may cause a false reading. What is your experience?

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes you are correct. I have tested this Interapid indicator with that short arm in the video quite extensively and it has very little error (but it does have some about .0002"). You may have noticed how close I have it to the collet chuck in the video just for that reason. It is necessary for you and any machinist to test all indicators and arms/bases if being used in a horizontal position. A Renishaw probe doesn't have that problem if is calibrated in the horizontal position. I use the spindle probe on my horizontal mill. I have over the years seen machinist's clamp mag bases on the chuck of a lathe to indicate holders in the turret or a tailstock center. This will give you a error in your reading due to gravity.

[@normanj844]

Thanks a lot for the explanation. Really liked your discussion of getting a part running true to a blind hole. One more question, could you explain the hammering? Why not just adjust the big knobs (sweet design btw) on the steady rest?

[@EdgePrecision]

Norman J I had to go down with the part. The jaws are bored to fit the part so adjusting the jaws with this steady rest there is nothing to push the part down. If the part is low I can push it up slightly but not down. It's better to be a little low and push the part up with the lower jaw. I was just a little to high with the body or the steady rest.

[@normanj844]

Makes sense... One suggestion that might improve the steady rest is to try asymmetric jaw inserts on the front and the back. Replacing the "C" shape with an "r" shape should give you downward pressure on the lower jaw which should allow you to raise and lower the stock. Do you think that would work? Keep these videos coming, they have been great!

[@anonim400]

I like your videos, but i gotta ask you : you really need to use the steady rest for that kind of operation, you can't just put the workpiece closer to the chuck?

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes that is a way to do it. But (there's always a but) if you run it back in the spindle bore the only thing supporting the part is in this case about 2.7" of chuck jaw length. Just the weight of the part alone makes it hard to chuck the part properly. At first I was going to turn the end but decided to mill it. If I was turning the end the un supported end up in the spindle would cause vibration. Now you could use a spacer sleeve in the spindle bore but in this case with a 6.625 bore I hade no way of getting it in with the small chuck in the large chuck. Also with the tolerances I'm dealing with here it will hold the end squarer to the OD by using the steady rest. Thanks for the question.

[@bensmeding]

How much do you charge to make a part like that?

[@EdgePrecision]

The last time I did these it was a quantity of fourteen parts. there were also other parts in the assembly. For this part I got $5,000 Each for the machine work only. I don't supply the material or any outside processes just machine work I do, and my tooling needed to do that. On the last group I didn't do the turning to true up the OD to the gun drilled hole (what I showed in the previous videos) either so on this set the cost will be more for that additional work. This price in my opinion for this part is a little on the low side. I would like to get more but the job still came out OK. The biggest problem is not having to pull off the job for something more urgent. That happens a lot and can really disturb the flow of a job.

[@billcorrigan8456]

How come you didn't just chuck it close to 4 jaw to do the end?

[@EdgePrecision]

It could have been done that way. In this case there were very close tolerances as to the perpendicularly to the rest of the part. In order to be sure I like to indicate the part. If the part is back in the spindle bore and the end close to the chuck jaws. It is possible to check the end but not what’s back in the spindle. Also with all the unsupported length in the spindle it can vibrate and cause problems.

[@maikeydii]

Is that steady rest your own design?

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes I made it to use the existing mount for the Hydraulic steady rest. The hydraulic steady rest only closes down to 100 MM (3.9"). Also to do this job (in later operations) the roller jaws wont work because the machine needs to rotate with slots in the part you cant do that with roller jaws.

[@carmell71]

I'm a long time screw machine operator. Tomorrow, I start as a Mazak trainee. I was transferred to that department. I know nothing CNC, so I'm a bit nervous! Can someone suggest vids for a bit of a preview?

[@EdgePrecision]

If they are going to teach you to run the machine using the Mazatrol conversational you may be better off not knowing anything about CNC. Just pay attention to what they show you it isn't hard to do. They are going to train you right?

[@carmell71]

Yes, they have a kid ready to train me. Very basic to start. The two experienced guys are swamped. We are a small company with very few cnc operators. I'm not sure about the Mazatrol conversational, but they did just acquire a couple of Mazatrol 9 axis machines. My pretraining suggestion was "leave your sledgehammer in your toolbox!" lol

[@carmell71]

Oh, wait. Are you saying don't get involved with Mazak machines?

[@carmell71]

I'm a brand new sub, so I'm not sure of your thoughts on Mazak.

[@EdgePrecision]

The machine in this video is a Mazak. I'm perfectly fine with Mazak it's a good machine. Learn every aspect of it. There are a lot of shops that use them.

[@Junyingcnc]

Hi, this is Junying Metal Manufacturing. I could help you aluminum welding and provide metal parts, is there anyone interested in?