Souls Lore. Pate Vs. Creighton. Who To Trust?

[@spooklyskeleton365]

Every time pate is anywhere, there's always at least one message that says "liar ahead"

[@zognarreg]

Spookly Skeleton Give it up! , skeleton!

[@V2ULTRAKill]

zognarreg Try tongue, but hole

[@legendspug6625]

@@V2ULTRAKill ambush behind

[@pogga1621]

@LegendsPug try thrusting

[@NuclearNautiloid]

Don't give up , skeleton!

[@kanaria5981]

my character has low int, and as a man with low int, I no think. I kill both. happy ending

[@skipst101]

kanaria I like your style.

[@yassineel7573]

i always help Creighton :) and then back stab

[@silque_brigandess]

I killed Pate when I first encountered him, just because some message with "liar" written on it was nearby. I regret nothing, he's a smug face.

[@starplatinum7932]

LOL

[@TheDomini]

I just wait for them to fight in tseldora and i kill both of them with a great sword

[@Muzzle1300]

What's interesting is pate gives you his armor set after creighton is released, and creighton is easily fooled believing someone wearing different armor is pate, it could be pate wanted you to wear it so creighton kills you takes the ring and goes his jolly lolly way.

[@fungo]

+Muzzle1300 Never thought of that... THAT is a very convincing tid-bit of lore I wish I included.

[@DigitalGame18]

+fungo Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in it myself, even if you did wear Pate's set Creighton doesn't react in any way, mind that it could have made for an interesting idea that was just never implemented but I'm more willing to bet it was just a case of the developers wanting to give an excuse for the player to be given Pate's set and figured players would make their own conclusions about it.

[@joeyghostx]

+fungo fungo, you are smart, but I'm surprised you never caught on to that trick. Its one of the oldest tricks in the handbook of manipulation!

[@rekisrax7344]

Mr. Muzzle m

[@rekisrax7344]

Mr. Muzzle m

[@basketbomberslackingson4417]

Pate:there’s treasure in that room but it’s dangerous to go for it, the gate lo- Creighton:DANGER? OH BOY HERE I GO!

[@bobswolfie2001]

Basketbomber Slackingson This is surely canon.

[@birbhammer]

isn't it possible that Creighton's responce after opening a chest isn't because he wanted to kill you, but because it's pates trapped house chest and because Creighton is a psychopath that he's just laughing at the fact you got hurt.

[@joshuakim5240]

I always assumed that Creighton suspected Pate's stash to be trapped and thus uses us as a guinea pig, only to then just let us have the stash due to surviving the explosive trap within. Kind of a "Oh shit that thing really was trapped. Sorry bro, just take the loot as an apology."

[@Haszry]

nah, the stupid chest explodes either way.... and they say the same damn thing

[@predatorrr6968]

Pate laughs and says "oh this will leave a nice scar" So Pate actually did it on purpose.

[@H0elessRomantic1]

Didn't Creighton say, that Pate lived in Tsaldora?

[@agustinmoreira5937]

I love how Pate says "nice scar" and Creighton says "nasty scar", it really suits both of their personalities.

[@kurozarus8096]

I trust Creighton more, because he's the more direct and straightforward of the two. Sure, he's a murderer, but Pate himself is a backstabbing mass murderer. I'll take the murderer over the backstabber.

[@gavin2945]

And creighton is cool as fuck

[@kurozarus8096]

Oh, anyday- Creighton over Pate. I even get to wear his armor in DS3! (Looks a bit better, honestly.) I also can't help but ask, but... where's your profile picture from?

[@gavin2945]

+Damien Kelly (Gremalkin088) I changed it already but, it was from r34 tbh

[@brog4037]

I'd whoop both

[@smellslikeangryfish875]

I thought I was the only one thinking this way! Yeah, Creighton is a murderer, but he's a straightforward murderer, and fights directly, not fucking disrespecting his target like Pate does.

[@NeumaghAnon]

When I found them fighting, I decided Creighton would be the more dangerous one, and helped Pate. Then I killed Pate when his back was turned. Maybe I'm patches. Hehe.

[@mushymcmushington7176]

I turned my volume down because listening to Pate's cut dialogue over a that music sounded like porn. Like any second we were gonna hear, "If you plan to go through my backdoor, well, I'm not one to interfere." or "I've heard people say you should be wary of my rather large spear, but don't worry, I'm very gentle." in Pate's smooth-as-fuck voice.

[@ReligiousHooker]

MushyBird McMushington ikr he's so hot xd

[@namespara6669]

o h now i know why i think hes so hot? He voices darth fucking maul man

[@greenpenguin0763]

Oooooh myyyy

[@oddjob4212]

Lol wtf

[@vshiki4872]

I knew I wasn't the only one to think he's hot

[@JXZX1]

I dunno, I think Dark Souls 2 has some pretty well fleshed-out characters.

[@knightsona7782]

Bearer, Seek, Seek, Lest.

[@shaetane]

Wow you really encapsulated the ds2 experience right there sir xD and I'm not even ironic, I heard those words way to many times

[@mawichan]

If anything, DkS2 at least has many likeable, sympathetic or just interesting characters. IDK, a lot of them were pretty amusing to me.

[@56ur4]

@@knightsona7782 lol once i didnt bother skipping and heard the whole dialogue, i was like, wait is this some new dialogue, feel like i never heard it before

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

Aldia, Vendrick, Shanalotte, Shalquoir, Pate, Creighton, Lucatiel... all of them are very good characters (Aldia is to me the best character in entire series) and I gotta say I remember them better than most of the NPC's in Dark Souls 3. They just felt more unique. In general I think DS2 had better story and lore than the rest of the Dark Souls series.

[@MrKork1]

Is there a possibility that Creighton and Pate might have been compliances as they share a common stash with each other? Perhaps they turned on each other when splitting the loot they had gathered. This would also explain how Creighton can know so much about Pate and his intentions; simply because they used to work alongside eachother.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

That's the idea I got the first time around, they both clearly seem to hide things regarding each other from the player.

[@TheAlison1456]

@Panama Jack Inscruitable. Wow. That's such a good word to describe Dark Souls lore.

[@tilaNmanx]

I'll go with this. I don't believe that Creighton is innocent and Pate is super evil and the murderer of Mirrah, or that Creighton is just super crazy and Pate is in fact innocent. It makes more sense that they worked together (long enough to share a place apparently), that Pate would lure people with his whole friendly demeanor and angelic voice, and Creighton then hacks their skulls open. Would also explain why they give you the same burn, like it's their own little inside joke. They're both murderers and bandits, but Pate is practical and kills for loot (or sets a trap and is semi-honest about it so if it doesn't work, he'll have a way out) while Creighton loves to hack with his axe and goes with his instincts. Their fallout was probably due to greed. Either they both wanted the treasure and Pate outsmarted Creighton, or Pate simply backstabbed Creighton, or Creighton grew paranoid and Pate danced around his trapped and trapped Creighton instead. One or the other is more to blame for Creighton's situation, but they're both murderers. Pate, being smart, just doesn't want to make it as obvious as Creighton. Creighton TRIED Pate's methods and failed, but he still lies about "I think his name is Pate or something I dunno" (almost like he's embarrassed to admit he was backstabbed by a partner in crime, or he tries to be smart again and fails). It would also make sense why Creighton is SO salty about the whole situation, why he's obsessed with Pate, because the betrayal is so personal.

[@enchanted7076]

very smart also in my next playtrhough they will have it coming

[@aedragorix]

I approached Creighton with the chameleon spell active once... "Oh you! I remember you, don't you scare me like that, I thought you were him!" He thought a moving vase was Pate?? Edit: Sorry guys didn't mean to imply that creighton does say that if you're a vase or anything I'm just pointing out how comical it is that he still says it regardless of whether you have chameleon or not so you can do it for funny results

[@MakshotMP4]

Wth

[@theblackbaron4119]

I need to try that thanks. I didn't even know after 700+ hours :O

[@Oknahidwin]

I'm pretty sure that's his normal dialogue when you meet him for the second time. Doesn't matter if you're using chameleon or not

[@Darkko88]

Who else is going to sneak up on him disguised as furniture if not his sworn enemy?

[@JHawke1]

He says it regardless. Just did an all quests playthrough and I distinctly remember him saying it and I hadn't used chameleon once in the playthrough.

[@THEeireTTv]

ah, you forgot to mention the possibility of receiving the armor from pate to have you mistaken for him, throwing the scent off him for a couple days: same boot prints & description if an onlooker on your path is asked. the description may not only be a description of Pate, but serve as a warning to the wearer

[@mossy3565]

Naturally, in Dark Souls 3, the guy you save from a jail cell this time around turns out to be the nicest, sweetest guy you'll ever meet

[@tysej4]

Idk... The witch is... Well not evil but definitely practicing some dark stuff. oh you mean the other?.. Wait no?... Oh the Pyromancer? Yeah he's pretty chill xD

[@zade8586]

@@tysej4 Greirat the thief..

[@tysej4]

@@zade8586 Oh... Right of course. For some reason I totally forgot about him.

[@esperknightt]

Also in ds3, in boreal valley, creighton invades you if you kill him you get the dragonslayers axe. Which reads 'axe of creighton,the infamous knight of mirrah. This weapon is said to be imbued with lightning,but creighton used it to slay men'

[@Simply_resharkable]

There's many people in jail cells and cages in ds3 There's Seigward, Greirat, the Witch I've forgotten the name of, Irina, and Cornyx

[@AlluidTheGamer]

TL;DR: "Creighton" is actually a Forossan mercenary/thug used as a patsy for "Pate", and "Pate" is the real Creighton of Mirrah and serial killer. The Case of Pate and Creighton: Pate the "Treasure Hunter" VS Creighton the "Serial Killer" Both of these are in quotation marks because I don't necessarily believe either title. Both of them are tricksters and rogues, but I don't think either one of them fits the title given to them. Pate may be after treasure, but he never asks for anything from you after the trap has been tripped. If he was a treasure hunter, why would he give away *all* of his "unique" armor and identifying things ("unique" because he obviously has a spare or two)? Particularly if he hoards his treasure like he implies with his home after his quest is over. Additionally, for a "coward" his spear is oddly strong, which requires high strength to use with any efficacy. Creighton is referred to as and heavily implied to be a serial killer... but he's pathetically weak. For a serial killer in the Dark Souls world, he should be pretty strong... but he doesn't hit very hard as a summon. Also, all of his gear are knock-off items (his armor is mentioned to different from an actual Knight of Mirrah, but close enough at a glance, and his Dragonslayer Axe lacks the lightning damage of the original that's not even particularly far from when you find him in the Forbidden Woods. It's also important to note for later that the original Dragonslayer Crescent Axe was used by someone from Forossa, and as such is not a weapon actually native to Mirrah). I believe that while Creighton is a thug and self-proclaimed knight of Mirrah, he's probably closer to a braggart and thug than an actual menace, while Pate is the actual serial killer. Lets think about it for a moment- Creighton was apparently infamous and broke out of prison... but he was dumb enough to get caught in his own trap. He lacks guile and while his armor is an imitation of an actual knight of Mirrah's gear, it's thuggishly made and stands out, something an actual *serial killer* would want to avoid. Additionally, he seems surprised when he actually kills Pate, before becoming quite overjoyed at the prospect. He doesn't even bother feigning innocence half the time, and when he does try the attempts are notoriously poor. One detail I also noticed is that if you listen to all of the "Mirrah" citizen dialogue, his accent is incongruous with Lucatiel and Cale- it's too heavy to match, and puts strain on different syllables and beats in his speech. Point of fact, he sounds more like Vengarl (Who is from Forossa) than anyone from Mirrah, and combined with his thuggish vocabulary (Knights are apparrently close to nobility in Mirrah, based on lucatiels dialogue), make the idea of him being a "Knight of Mirrah" fail to pass muster in his supposed home country. The fact that he sticks with the "infamous" name and appearance after he leaves is dumb, particularly since he's a fugitive... unless he *wants* to be known as Creighton of Mirrah. Additionally, he seems neutral when you trip the bomb (to me he also sounds a bit like he's trying not to be sympathetic about you blasting yourself in the face with a bomb and his voice sounds a bit forced) which contrasts his earlier bloodlust. There is also the point that he *never* tries to kill you unless you try to attack him or stop him from killing Pate or acquiring his Ring of Thorns despite being a serial killer. Pate, on the other hand, is purposefully trying to be unassuming, recognizes traps before they happen and try to trick you into tripping them, gives you his distinctive, well-made gear (including the ring that theoretically belongs to someone else), which he keeps at least one spare of (he gives you more of his armor and more copies of the ring if you help him, and killing him puts the armor in Matilda's shop) when he knows someone is looking for him to kill him. He tries to keep you on his side (because he's smart enough to realize that if you're strong enough to survive the traps, you're probably of further use to him), but regardless of whether or not you're hostile to him he sort of sneers at you (I think that's the menacing undertone mentioned in the video- he doesn't seem to take you seriously unless he's thinking of how he can use you later, which may be why he sounded "humbled" after the second trap- You survived a windmill full of poison and a drop that could break your legs, so you could easily help him against the idiot trying to kill you.). He's not alarmed in the slightest after killing Creighton and will usually win (in my experience) if they are left to their own devices, and his tendency to be found in high-danger areas contradicts his claim of being a coward. Going back to the voice work, Pate's accent closely resembles Cale and Lucatiels, which matches him to the citizens of Mirrah that we have interacted with. His vocabulary also more closely resembles Lucatiel's, a Knight of Mirrah, but has more elaborate flourishes to it and sounds more at-home with a genuine knight. His joy at seeing/hearing you blast yourself also makes it pretty obvious he's murderous as well as condescending. There's also the thing about the Ring of Thorns- The best version comes from murdering 1000 people online. The second best comes from a tomb full of dead people. You need a lot of death to earn a Ring of Thorns. As mentioned before, Creighton seems like he's too dim of a bulb and too weak to kill a whole lot of people. Pate, on the other hand, lures people into traps and uses genuine, strong weapons. Here's my theory (and someone has one similar in the comments that led me to this one): Pate is the actual Creighton of Mirrah, while the in-game Creighton is a former bandit/mercenary/person from Forossa who was first used as a patsy by Pate and is now trying to copycat the real Creighton (Pate). Pate mentions that the ring belongs to a warrior who got caught in a cage. But how would he have gotten the ring if the warrior himself was inside the cage? Easily- if he was the warrior and the "warrior" that got trapped was a fake. The cage in question? The prison "Creighton" got trapped in for falling for a trick and the "attempt to off him" he mentions. Cale's mention that Creighton had a similar name, before backpedaling and admitting he wasn't sure if that was the right guy, may come from our known Creighton being fake- he's got the name but he doesn't match the description. Creighton's trap was essentially to capture and get revenge on Pate for setting him up. As for why Creighton truly wants the Ring of Thorns, it's not because it's useful (it's not and we all know it) but because an infamous killer *should* have the ring, and if he's going to try and fake his way through being a serial killer he needs to match the rumors and legend as much as possible. Why? For intimidation factor. No sane person in the soulsiverse would attack someone that purposefully murders people- they would be engorged with souls and too powerful. Creighton is, more-or-less, a petty thug. He doesn't have the strength to truely survive on his own merits outside of Drangleic. Why specifically outside Drangleic? He, unlike Pate, likes to rest near Bonfires- in safe places. He may be a braggart and an idiot, but even he knows that he won't survive long there, which is likely why you never see him after his quest- he's trying to leave Drangleic so he can bandit his way through the world as the new Creighton the Wanderer. Pate likely retreated to Drangleic because it's a haven to killers, where a fake like his patsy couldn't survive on his own. He realized that even if Creighton couldn't kill him, that he would likely have people trying to track him down since he's the persona of "an infamous serial killer". He leaves once Creighton has been dealt with because he knows he can live as Pate without being hunted outside of Drangleic... and it's possible that he even stole "Creighton's" real identity, seeing as Pate's armor is literally the generic warrior armor and if "Creighton" had been executed as planned, nobody would be able to reveal him. This also explains why Creighton returns but Pate is never heard of in DS3, but Pate's armor is back to being generic warrior armor. Either the real Creighton (Pate) survived and eventually returned to the Creighton persona (which had now beccome known for a Dragonslayer Crescent Axe, or the fake Creighton (the one we know as Creighton) actually killed enough people after leaving Drangleic to become as deadly as (or more deadly than) the original Creighton, and either one joined Rosaria's Fingers during that particular cycle of the world. EDIT: As pointed out in the comments below; Cale says he saw Creigh-something's face recently at one point albiet he wasn't sure that was actually him. However, Creighton wears a mask/face covering helmet, and Pate's helmet is open-faced. Additionally, Pate is first encountered in the Forest of Fallen Giants, the same area as Cale, and Creighton was locked up in the Huntsman's Copse and once freed is never in the same area as Cale, who is either in the FoFG or the basement in Majula

[@Schnittchen011]

Best theory I heard so far.

[@56ur4]

Very good, thank you for writing this. Mind blown

[@sxar_0660]

Wow that’s too long can someone explain it without it being long

[@Schnittchen011]

Very short version. Pate is the real creighton and the serial killer who escaped the prison. The Creighton we see in the game is just faking the real creighton (Pate), because he knows how dangerous Drangleic is and no sane person would attack a serial killer. Pate on the other hand tries to disguise himself because he is sentenced to death. That is the theory. If you want the details and arguments read the comment it is worth the time. PS: Sry for the bad grammar.

[@sxar_0660]

Schnittchen011 thanks

[@bindair_dundat]

All the while a murderer called Cray-something is walking free.:D

[@Spiiiderrr]

Best new character-name confirmed: Craysomething

[@Nineball459]

So, who should you trust? Neither, in my opinion. One's a psychopathic serial killer, the other's a psychopathic grave robber and thief. So... out-psychopath them! Go along with their quest lines until their little brawl, kill pate first, then get Creighton's armor set and the tseldora key, then kill him as well. They both thought they've been playing you when in reality you've been playing both of them the entire time!

[@nickzettas5220]

That's what I've been doing all along. And no I'm not Pate 2.0. I'm Pateghton... or Crate... can't really remember.

[@blastoff438]

We have the same thinking xD I will actually kill them both if I am to be asked. So that these two people who thought they could play with me will actually be my own preys xD.

[@TheFapFactory]

Nick Zedd hahahaha Im dead that’s great

[@ivorymask2599]

YES

[@3NABL3D]

I like that

[@LazyGamerPerson]

I guess the one thing I liked about DS2 is NPCs were a little more expressive when they talked instead of just standing there.

[@bruschetta7711]

Oh my god i'm hating how they made some npcs in ds3

[@Garl_Vinland]

Fun fact: on launch, the Ring of Throns was one of the best PvP rings in the game. Along with the Sun Ring. Then they got nerfed to worthlessness

[@twobearshighfiving7660]

Minor correction, Yurts not talking about 'his god.' Mephistopheles is the woman who hired Yurt to kill everyone with the mission of keeping soul arts a secret to her order. After killing Yurt she will appear and hire you instead if your character tendency is dark. After you kill everyone she'll then double cross you n attempt to kill you.

[@toporosas110]

Creighton rocks! He has the best voice in the game.

[@MrVulcanator]

Topo Rosas you may also like Gough's voice pitch shifted back to normal.

[@sethmurrin5273]

Reminds me of Jason Statham

[@shark-cat42]

memory of king vendricks is better

[@lopez4292]

Leaving a dot.

[@ashenmist6090]

Except its not. Everyone knows aldia has the most badass voice.

[@STBill]

Mephistophiles is Yurt's boss. She hired him to kill everyone that has a connection with the soul arts.

[@TheMike0088]

now that dark souls 3 is out we have confirmation that creighton was indeed a manslaughtering psycho, as the description of the dragonslayer's axe states something about him using it not to kill dragons, but to kill people.

[@CaptainSkylocke]

But at least he's honest about it.

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Yes but it could be pate in despise, also he wasnt as much as a psycho as ringfinger lionheart, it only kills to get tongues for rosaria, yellow finger does it too and shes pretty nice actually

[@Daniel-il2cf]

When you kill pate he says a little line of dialogue that is usually thrown to the side, "not too shabby" which is also what patches says when he is killed

[@mr.e3123]

Im siding with Pate just because his Voice has me sliding out my seat because its so smooth.

[@TheKaBLAMshow]

omg me too hahaha! I wouldn't mind him stabbing my back while whispering that buttery butter in my ear whooo whee!

[@TheKaBLAMshow]

omg me too hahaha! I wouldn't mind him stabbing my back while whispering that buttery butter in my ear whooo whee!

[@ladyofthewinds8267]

"try thrusting ahead".

[@trustypatches9434]

Mr. E and what of patches voice!?

[@Slender_Man_186]

+Trusty Patches your attempt at a Catarina accent is shit, and you normally sound like a drunk Scotsman.

[@nialsum6906]

Creighton is so British.... i love him so much

[@mischuwischu4305]

?

[@hankhill2625]

sounds like a white van man

[@BlackIronHero]

Hank Hill He's just proper cockney, he's chill. Peaky bloinders

[@titanosmand]

*Craighton

[@HandsomeLib]

Hellfire Heroes Peaky Blinders aren't cockney lol

[@marting4089]

Creighton for life

[@Paludion]

+GENER CAP I love how he walked to the left at the end of the video. LIKE A BOSS ! I always help Creighton when I get to the duel. That cheeky prick didn't see it coming !

[@Sans-sr8fq]

creighton every time.

[@JayWalkZ]

Creighton is da real mvp. Had I killed patches and took his ring, I would have given it to Creighton in a heartbeat

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

Seriously the best looking armour set in the game.

[@marting4089]

vitriolicAmaranth No the armour is horrible appart for the helmet

[@verikoira14]

How could have the cartographer seen Creighton and recognize him "just the other day"? If he saw Creighton, before he was trapped and seperated from Pate, he should've seen Pate too. Also Creighton was trapped in Huntsman while the cartographer was in the opposite side of the map, the forest of giants, where Pate is btw, before he moves to Majula. What if the man he saw was Pate? Since the cartographer was already losing his mind, Pate could've easily just said all kinds of things to mess up his mind more, or just simply introduce himself with a wrong name to put the blame on Creighton.

[@Araneus21]

Considering the amount of collapsed entryways, and especially tunnels in Forest of Fallen Giants, one might wonder if there was actually a whole network of them leading to different parts of Drangleic. Thus explaining Cale's ability to move around the map. Some of them could have collapsed shortly before the player arrives, explaining why Cale is found. This would also make sense in the face of war with the giants, since those big bulky creatures would have trouble fitting into tunnels let alone fighting in them and this would give the potential of guerilla warfare for soldiers of Drangleic. Escaping underground would also help save civilians who could have descended into the pit in Majula, fought their way through the rat king's domain and conquer a part of it to form the Gutter, strategically placed on top of a botomless pit. Some of them may have ventured even further, found the Rotten and seeking wholeness became a part of it. This could explain the woodland child invaders, who were likely war survivors and refugees that had lived in forests to hide away from the giants. But considering gutters dilapidated state, emaciated dark-infused hollows and the presence of 2 giants further in, one might say this pocket of humanity fell at some point.

[@Zeithri]

@@blunderless I'd stand next to Creighton without a doubt. Pate seems untrustworthy while Creighton would at least give you a fight.

[@BobExcalibur]

I do love Peter Serafananifowifflewitz. I hope to see him in more games.

[@fungo]

+BobExcalibur lol dat spelling.

[@ZvAero2468]

+fungo sorry to be that person but mephistopheles is an npc in the game

[@heyllo1337]

samuel jones what. also yeah

[@Efreeti]

I tend to help Creighton in the fight. Mainly because he is despite his sociopathy, honest and fair towards us.

[@Googusvaflogishnogin]

I think Pate is one of the most interesting Dark Souls NPCs. He's a lot more complex than Patches is.

[@masonjones7777]

definitely more complex, but patches was more meant to be entertaining. I mean, who didn't feel good about kicking patches dumb face in after he tries to fool you.

[@EldritchAugur]

Pate is actually a good liar and plays the long game. When you first meet him he tells you about the trap ahead and comes off as very trustworthy. If it was Patches he'd lie about it very obviously and you'd never trust him. It was actually the thing that made me believe him on my first playthrough and I was with him all the way until he told me to go get a reward from his chest after helping him defeat Creighton. I was definitely suspicious then and that's when he tries to kill you.

[@__TheBlackSwordsman__]

DS3 I'd say made Patches more complex with him saving Greirat and the Lapp questline in DS3.

[@Efreeti]

For what it's worth, I feel Creighton is the more honest of the two. He's a killer, but in Drangleic that doesn't feel as big a sin. He does mostly right by the player, except for the traps in the house at the end.

[@tysej4]

But on the flip-side when has Pate ever actually trapped you? (other than at the end of the questline) Considering you meet Pate far more. There is no argueing that Pate is lowly and rogue. But I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he locked Creighton away was because he feared what kind of response his rogueish nature would garner. He was around Creighton enough to know that he'd murder him wholly. I don't take Pate as a murderer, nor even much of a back-stabber. He'd be the first in the party to say "Oh.. You go first". And if you die, steal your stuff. But on the flipside, not the type to kill you himself nor ever completely trap you. To him it's more "Lucky coincidence" if he were to get your stuff. Both set a trap no matter who you help so *Shrug*

[@GameAlicornLuna]

I always suspected that they were starting to hollow and lose their memories which is why they had different recollections of events.

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I think Creighton is actually a vigilante. Cale says he resembles the serial killer, but no part of his face or body besides his eyes actually shows, so he must be talking about the armour. He then seems perplexed about Creighton's name. He also clearly spoke to Creighton and wasn't cut down despite appearing weak and timid. To me this suggests that "Creighton" was not a known name of the serial killer from Mirrah and that Creighton took the armour from said killer when he hunted him down himself, though of course uncertainty arises from Creighton's violent attitude and Cale's poor memory. It would also explain why he was going after a shifty figure like Pate, whose dialogue suggests he has preyed on more than Creighton and the player, and why he wanted Pate's peculiar ring as a trophy, similar to his armour. Of course, Creighton also comments when he hears the rigged chest explode on you, but rather than react positively he has a more neutral reaction that does not suggest he anticipated or hoped to profit from the outcome. A further variable is Creighton's armour apparently being an imitation of real Mirrah knight armour, making it unclear whether it's even the armour that belonged to the killer (whom Cale says was a knight in name, suggesting he was actually knighted and would likely have received a real set of knight's armour) or his own crafted as a replica for whatever reason.

[@ds2sofs]

Seems like a bad rationalization to why you trusted Creighton rather than Pate, Pate is a lesser evil.

[@LTFHXCVI]

Knight Solaire I’d say they’re as bad as each other.. one way or another.

[@NRaah]

Cale said he was "a knight in name alone". This either means he became a knight and lost all honor, or he never was a knight and just kinda called himself that. If it's the latter, it would explain the 'imitation knight armor' that Creighton has.

[@mawichan]

I interpreted the "knight in name only" to mean he was once knighted, but his behavior was not the acceptable knight behavior. He could have just been a dickish knight who eventually got arrested for his crimes. Of course that could be wrong. It's just that real life historical knights tended to be dicks too, before chivalry codes became popular.

[@Maren617]

It's also possible that he recognized the real serial killer (Pate) who does show his face, but pretended to be "Creighton" when speaking to Cale. That may have been why Cale was so confused about the name but not about recognizing the face - he could not have recognized Creighton since he never shows his face.

[@rebelpoxy]

So does Creighton serve House Barratheon?

[@ethanwhite2210]

Stag sigil, good eye :P

[@roronoalaoudj]

Why ?

[@tilmanr.3299]

+Gledania Minos its because the symbol on his chest. It looks like a deers antler.

[@zarteen]

In all seriousness, this is a perfect example of superb character subplots. Its wonderful to see two Souls characters play into each other's story lines so perfectly.

[@canaltintas7121]

Note how Pate remarks : The poor bloke must have quite an imagination!". This maybe refers to the fact that creighton trapped himself in a cage without loot

[@platinumrage6687]

it still bothers me patches is in bloodborne but not dark souls 2

[@mittag6326]

what bothers me is that he's in Dark Souls3

[@dildoballins8545]

Patches is in every Myazaki developed soulsborne game, Dark Souls 2 was not developed by Myazaki since he was working on Bloodborne

[@louisadaway1716]

but it doesn't bother you he's in multiple other completely separate game series. Are you one of those people that complains about DS3 having too many references to DS1? I personally think it makes a lot more sense that he's in DS3 (the game all about time being convoluted and different lands coming together) than in Demon Souls, something Miyazaki has claimed is not to do with DS and BB what has no relation to DS. It's a bit weird is all I'm saying. I don't like you DS3 haters lol

[@GuardianOwl]

Small correction, Patches is in every Miyazaki directed game since 2008. The first appearance of the character is Patch the Good Luck in Armored Core: For Answer, a mech pilot who prefers to snipe from afar or set ambushes. If his master is defeated he begs for forgiveness and says he was only following orders. "We're allies right? right?"

[@riks081]

His spiritual successor is Pate, Patches, Pate.. It's almost the same and others have mentioned he is only in games Miyazaki has developed. It's clear the Dark Souls 2 team were paying homage to Patch the Good Luck without actually using Miyazakis character.

[@nicolasvillavicencio1835]

the only thing we know is that creighton sounds like a bad ass

[@cokeMONSTERps3]

I have never heard of Lautrec killing Gwynevere.

[@santiagojara8056]

When you use the black eye orb to invade him, he's in dark Anor Londo. Sorry for being a year late lul.

[@xxziadxx1289]

santiago jara its ok am years late to darksouls😂 didnt think i would enjoy it tbh

[@Loranys]

He's not in dark Anor Londo tho. The state Anor Londo is during the black orb invasion should be the same in wich your's is. For example: I never killed Gwynevere, and I've always found him in the Anor Londo with the fake sun.

[@ralphmurphy1659]

So wouldn't that mean he killed Gwndolyn in his Anor Londo. Gwynevere is an illusion, and the real she has left to marry some other guy.

[@mspltchwdr1778]

Ralph Murphy if you kill gwyndolin but don't kill gwynevere anor londo stays sunny.

[@ausrick7]

“Wait! He gave us a soap stone. Solaire gave us a soap stone. Maybe he’s like the new Solaire!”

[@Emily-eh5bq]

I always support Pate because he isn't as useless of a phantom. Creighton has a decent amount of hit points for the Copse boss but he swings so slow and it seems to do so little damage. I find Pate much more useful against the Last Giant. Also, Pate warns you about traps and nearby treasure. Maybe he's a little skeevy but he's nowhere near as bad as Patches. I don't think he should be considered dishonorable.. if someone in real life told you not to walk into a burning building even though there was a pile of gold inside, and you did it anyway, why would you hold them responsible for warning you?

[@justnoob8141]

You summon npc on Last Giant? First boss? Really?

[@shrunker684]

why not?

[@thiagorodrigo6841]

Just Noob Yep, You need summon him to get the armor, spear and Shield after found him again.

[@zyibesixdouze4863]

Just Noob questline tho

[@jacepalmier7941]

To me, Creighton sounds like Jason Statham I love how he says "The cheeky prick"

[@kakizakichannel]

I think he's Peter Serafenkwicz actually. You know, Amazon tick.

[@archazel8238]

The fact that Pate is voiced by Peter Serafinowicz makes the the title of "mild mannered" make so much more sense. That man is the epitome of it 🤣

[@trifurobert1349]

Darth Maul

[@zerotodona1495]

@@trifurobert1349kitchen gun makes pate feel unhinged

[@flutterbutter2728]

I love pate. Everything he says is a double meaning. It's more like a deadly coy game. Every time you manage to live he's genuinely happy that you survive because you won that round. The only reason I kill him after killing Creighton is because he never gives any coy warnings about the bomb and then he's rude enough to mock me if I open it.

[@rowan6743]

Creighton can't be the serial killer because Cale says he recognised him. But how can he if he can't see his face. And Cale and creighton don't have the same accent, which they would do if they came from the same place. My theory is that Pate was a serial killer under a different name, one that is similar to that Of "cray something" then, to escape said stigma went by "pate" in the new land he came to.

[@KhanTheBabe]

+rowan knox langford Creighton's armour says something about it being a fake too I believe.

[@rowan6743]

Iblis Indeed it does

[@GgbroTG]

He probably recognised him by his mask, as it's a mask worn by those sentenced to death in Mirrah (DS3 description). Considering Creighton was notorious for his crimes, and he never removed the mask, it's highly likely that people from the land of Mirrah now associate the mask with Creighton.

[@rowan6743]

Alright I'll give you that

[@CaptainSkylocke]

You can also tell from Cale's dialogue. They wouldn't have worded it that way if he was right. He couldn't see the face but recognised the armour. I think this framing thing might have some truth to it. Creighton is violent and vengeful, but if he wants you dead he'll just kill you. Pate on the other hand, everything about him screams trickery and deceit. Plus this theory is the only real explanation for them pointing out that Creighton's armour was fake.

[@vshiki4872]

Pate: *lies his back on a wall* Me: omG HE'S HOT-

[@dragonslayerornstein2361]

Say it I want to see where you're going with this

[@volcano696]

help both, kill pate, get Creighton armor then kill him too

[@Tumidiagram]

I always thought the two were both sides of Patches' personality, Creighton is his backstabbing, mischievous side that enjoys hurting others while Pate is the side that befriends and assists the character. Dark Souls 3 has confirmed for me that Creighton was the murderer. It just feels like people mistrust Pate because he was the one of the nicest people we've met. Creighton is a psychopath who doesn't try to hide it while Pate is a sociopath mostly. Sucks they added the scar line for Pate, but I understand what they were getting at. EDIT: Son of a bitch he said the same thing I said.

[@zachithink4824]

God I just love Pate's voice.

[@Ashalmawia]

not including the trapped room at the end, (which makes zero sense), the worst thing Pate _might_ do is wait near dangerous places for someone to get killed (but warns them of danger, and even points out the presence of the trap), and then loots them afterwards (though we don't even know if he does that; he makes no effort to investigate once you've entered the trap). that makes him a scavenger at worst, not a killer. creighton on the other hand is unambiguously a blood-thirsty maniac.

[@abomesai18]

Is it not possible that Creighton was falsely accused, and his demeanor, and his blood lust for pate, a result of being near-hollow?

[@mariod4494]

What do you mean who is the bad guy ? They are both bad guys. And the only right thing to do is to kill them both after you get the loot.

[@azuredragneal1685]

But by doing that then you are just as bad as they are so in short it's a three way of bad guys. I mean really in the souls games us as playable characters do some pretty questinable things..XD a good example of this is in the gutter. I you fall through the top floor on the platform by the bonfire you will fall Into a house with furniture and all. In it is a family of hollows that seemingly were trying to make a good life as a family. You murder them in cold blood like it's normal. And hell the rotten did nin thing to you and if you stand outside the fog gate you can hear him crying.. So reallly are we te good guys are are we really the bad guys who would do anything for power? :O do I even need to bring up sif from ds1 to this day I still hae his soul in my inventory never to be used!

[@sebastiantorrez8563]

@@azuredragneal1685 Man all the humans all all we are got the same nature kill,hate so theres is not white and black there are both color in our nature. There is not such thing as a angel person :)

[@BigVorst]

Mephistopheles is actually an NPC in Demon's Souls, but I never made the connection to the German Demon thing. That's kind of cool.

[@alexritchie5879]

Yeah she sends Yurt to kill people with the knowledge of Soul Arts or the Player if Yurt is killed earlier.

[@GuildedChunks]

Pate : Manipulative and coward, but doesn't seem to be a bad guy in term of he doesn't show that he may kill you and doesn't give you clues of hostility. Creig : Show and give you clues that he killed and know how to. BUT ! When you encounter him siting at the frame door, he show something that seems that creig is right about pate. He show that he fear the presence of pate ( click on that : 13:35 so you see what I'm talking about.) With this "Hm? Oh... oh! I-I remember you?! Don't scare me like that. I thought you were him." This dialog give that creig fear pate and fear for his life. But fearing his life is not the way of being a warrior. He fear of being again victime of pate and fear to die of him. This simple dialog of creig show that pate is worth being feared. And so shouldn't be trusted. But yes creig killed a lot, but we are in Dark soul and you as the main character will kill reds, yellow, white & blue phantom like creig before. You are a murder like creig and a looter of corpses like pate. Priest or not, you will have to loot atleast one dead being to finish the game and you will have to kill someone (NPC Invassion).

[@TheRandomEevee]

Wouldn't Lucateil have told you about Creighton since she's from Mirrah?

[@azuredragneal1685]

Nope cause you end up killing her brother :( though mirrah was probably a large country. Considering most of the npc's are from mirrah. Though the real question is where pate is from. I don't think it's ever mentioned in dark souls 2 but if I was to guess I'd say he was from the same kingdom as vangarl just he's more or less a careful fighter and not a brute like vangarl. XD

[@AdamArchangel]

Would you assume that Solaire and Anastacia knew each other just because they're from the same land/country?

[@zacharymorgan7574]

Are those two even from the same time period?

[@thezblah]

Creighton also shows up in Dark Souls 3 as a world-hopping invader for the murderous Fingers of Rosaria covenant if you assist the NPC Sirris of the Sunless Realm fend him off from her world.

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Ziad Allan yes but the darkmoons are so good ether, in the lore, they used to invade and murder people who opposed the gods, they probably kill millions in new londo and flooded it.

[@bobmcbob49]

There's also plenty behind Rosaria's Fingers to imply that they might not be in the wrong.

[@Garl_Vinland]

not sure if you were joking around with one part Fungo, but Yurt is also on a secret mission lol. Mephisopheles isn't his god, she's his boss. He was contracted by her to kill all human survivors in Boletaria so that the Soul Arts would never become knowledgable to humans. in fact, after killing Yurt, his boss confronts you, and you can choose to finish Yurt's contract.

[@blackjet2000]

+Garl Vinland Still think Yurt was and he's still the best character for that. That's why i like him the most compared to Lautrec.

[@Garl_Vinland]

His story is certainly more concrete. Yurt does't care for life at all, he's just doing his job. Like Kraumbopulous Michael. Lautrec on the other hand is more of a "kill or be killed" mindset. he cares about humanity, souls and the lot. Stepping on others is not a concern to him. He believes he is alone save for his Goddess, Fina.

[@CptKirby]

+Garl Vinland I made the same comment an hour before you, but everyone ignored me. :( Whelp, time time to kill Astraea again. All for revenge!

[@Garl_Vinland]

CptKirby People pay attention to the Vinland family name.

[@fungo]

+Garl Vinland I was joking (but it is true) and no, this video isn't about Mephistopheles so I'm not going to talk about something irrelevant. That's a video for another day.

[@SuperParkourio]

So Creighton was trapped in a room with a bonfire that lets him teleport to any other bonfire he's visited? Does he not know about them?

[@CosmeticFear]

SuperParkourio he's not a hollow like you are, and only hollows can use bonfires, same goes for estus flasks

[@dragonslayerornstein2361]

He's not a hallow Only hallows can use bonfires

[@Augcliffe]

I love your videos...they are very thorough :)

[@fungo]

+Augcliffe Thanks! Took me 10 long days to make this. It was a lot of work.

[@Shealio1]

+fungo The work is worth the wait!

[@Justjustinp]

This is an excellent video putting both of them together. I didn't realize the brilliance of each's storywriting until you compared them like this. Thank you.

[@cosmic5368]

Alls well that ends well! That what I always say.

[@endmin1775]

I want to side with Creighton because he resembles a Stormcloak and Pate resembles an Imperial.

[@scottfalcon4715]

Both are evil. just switch the roles, they try to control you but you control them, get the one`s armor you want and then kill them both.

[@AlexandreBatalha_Sharkuel]

+Scott Falcon doesn't that make you worse than them? lol

[@scottfalcon4715]

hehehehehe....

[@camilofriedman6208]

Ha! I always did the same. Blast 'em both with chaos firestorm when they were at low health >:)

[@nannerhammock1692]

Nah you get to redeem yourself in ng+ or just do the same thing.

[@scottfalcon4715]

lol

[@Trikip_]

Yurt, Lautrec, and Creighton I believe are now succeeded by Dung Eater. Though he seems significantly worse and more unhinged than all of them.

[@Knights_of_the_Nine]

Dark Souls 2 was excellent. Better lore than in DS3.

[@juancarlosii9794]

Did you know that pate was voiced by the actor of Dark Maul

[@fluffyking94]

just a thought, what if Pate was framing Creighton as a murderer? they never really say where Pate is from. Perhaps Pate was also from Mirrah, and the partnership they had was not just when Pate locked him away. Maybe when Pate locked him up, he also reviled his true nature, that he had been getting other adventurers killed and then blaming it on Creighton, prompting Creighton's need for revenge all the more.

[@walterc.dornez7672]

But that wouldn't make much sense seeing as how Cale said that the murders that Creighton was blamed for happened exclusively in mirrah, yet pate preys on adventures from all around, so pate killing random people in mirrah to frame Creighton wouldn't make any sense and wouldn't fit his M.O.

[@fluffyking94]

+Walter C. Dornez (The Angel Of Death) I'm just saying what if Pate spent some time in Mirrah.

[@walterc.dornez7672]

COLTON DOUGHERTY it's likely he might have, if so then that raises more questions like, if he did decide to frame Creighton, why, and for what purpose, he was going to be publicly executed so there was nothing pate could have really taken from him? However I have a theory that maybe pate actually helped Creighton escape the executioners axe, maybe pate wanted his helping in killing other adventures, it is possible. Then afterwords, after seeing how rash and ornery Creighton could become, pate cut him lose by trapping him in that cell.

[@fluffyking94]

+Walter C. Dornez (The Angel Of Death) how is that any less impossible than my theroy?

[@walterc.dornez7672]

COLTON DOUGHERTY I'm not saying your theory is impossible, I just said that it's likely that pate was in mirrah at some point in his killing career, I just personally don't see pate having a reason for framing Creighton is all

[@prinnydude5864]

I thought Pate was good, since when you kill him, the witch Melentia sells his stuff, and in his helmet says that "belongs to the kind Pate".

[@nileboy5055]

Creighton's armor and accent are awesome So consider me gladly biased screw pate

[@DiersakZelesnik]

I think they are supposed to be different manifestations of the same character. Like a split personality. That would explain why they both claim ownership of the "treasure" trove

[@Prommythean]

With the similarities in dialogue and the fact that they both give you a key to the same place, an idea struck me. Cayle only says that Creighton _looks_ similar to a serial killer from his homeland, and an infamous one at that. If he were really so widely known in Mirrah for being a murderer, don't you think Cayle would have definitely recognized him off the bat? Here's my theory: Creighton and Pate are actually the same person. Obviously this sounds a bit nutty at first, but hear me out. Neither Creighton nor Pate are outstanding citizens. Both could be easily characterized as murderers and both are clearly somewhat untrustworthy. Both sow seeds of doubt in regard to the other, and both have the key to the same hideaway, which is rigged with the same traps, that trigger the same line of dialogue when they go off. My theory is that, depending on which one you kill, the other is actually the serial killer from Mirrah. If you decided to kill Creighton, then at some point Pate must have tricked Creighton into wearing the set of armor he was so infamous for, since Creighton is no swiftian wit. But if you kill Pate, then Creighton was the serial killer all along.

[@killersands5116]

you gave me a mind fuck.

[@lordofinnistrad8757]

Prommythean That's actually a really solid theory. I like it!

[@d.wampianer3577]

Prommythean Sounds good, but how do they fight against each other, when they're the same person :0

[@Prommythean]

D. Wampianer Maybe you should read the whole comment

[@d.wampianer3577]

Prommythean Well I did read it several times otherwise i wouldn't have answered. And yet i don't get how they're supposed to be the same person. I feel like i'm getting hung up on the fact that you say they are the same person. I mean how can one person fight someone he impersonates ? As i said i feel like i don't really get what you mean with them being the same guy.

[@wojtekp295]

Trust no one, let them fight. Kill the winner. *THEN PRAISE THE SUN*

[@19HajimeSaitou91]

Is that what game wanted to say That YOU'RE the monster

[@sebastiantorrez8563]

@@19HajimeSaitou91 meehhhh... we are humans we kill for power is not like monsters and angels open your eye BOI

[@sebastiantorrez8563]

@@19HajimeSaitou91 you can try...

[@hazardous0887]

As a certain famous witcher once said: "If I were to choose between a greater and lesser evil, I'd rather not choose at all" I think that sums up Pate and Creighton pretty well.

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! I love you BROTHER 😍💓🙏

[@Lardianyt]

Pete never lies to you though. He literally tell you that the gate will close the first time you meet him.

[@russian_knight]

Not entirely true he's willingly sending you into danger to try and get you killed

[@toastybatch565]

I just love how FROM didn't pick either one of these guys as being "the good guy". It's an excellent tale on how good and bad isn't black and white, a lesson on morality.

[@truesoulghost2777]

Good video. A nice deduction at the end.

[@blackjet2000]

Also known as the hottest yaoi couple of the Souls series.

[@TheZ691]

wat

[@mrtaco7736]

+Fresh 2D Toucher Buddies oh god...

[@AlexandreBatalha_Sharkuel]

+Fresh 2D Toucher Buddies I'd ship that boat.

[@rekisrax7344]

Fresh 2D Toucher Buddies m

[@SayedMxhammed]

What. The. Fuck.

[@bigsnozitaliano9494]

Why did pate and whatever the crestfallen dudes name is in ds1 have the same death dialogue: “hehe, not to shabby...”

[@joshuavick887]

I know this was posted six years ago, but Pate doesn’t just falsely assume you were acquainted with Creighton. You did summon him multiple times lol. He’s also completely disinterested in the ring and has no dialogue regarding it (after Creighton’s death) assuming you don’t kill him beforehand and they end up fighting each other. I think him obsessing over you having the ring in that particular instance is just him wanting closure considering he didn’t personally fulfill his wish of killing Creighton himself, let alone not having the satisfaction of seeing his dead body.

[@TheAlison1456]

The voice acting is better and deeper than i expected. I've liked this character arc ever since i first came to know it. It's very cool.

[@screamwank895]

I always help creighton, because at least he is honest about his killing desire, but pate is a dishonourable liar,

[@sik3xploit]

Most common reason though? Because if you kill him he won't offer you his set of armor.

[@MsElsword]

When Pate gave his armor and the ring, certainly he was waiting to you to die with his armor and ring, and Craighton would think that was him.

[@SwitcherooU]

Great analysis of one of the most memorable storylines in a not-that-memorable game. Kudos to whoever came up with Pate and Creighton; they saved the game.

[@ericshaun343]

The lore of this 2 dudes have more lore and character than MANY TV characters

[@avedominusnox6420]

its funny that Creightonis an evil invader in Dark souls 3

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Ave Dominus Nox nah rosarias fingers are the best covenant dark moon is for loosers lmao

[@masonjones7777]

@@NeostormXLMAX eh, I'm more in favor of a dark buff to my weapon, and at least my leader doesn't have a slug for an ass.

[@griffendesai2039]

Pitting the patches archetype vs the yurt archetype is one of the many nuances in dark souls 2 that a lot of its harsh critics usually overlook. It's one of the many reasons that dark souls 2 is by far the most underrated souls game.

[@lordflashheart3741]

I have a question. Have you even played Demon's Souls? Anything you say about Yurt is just straight up wrong, if not stupid. He's not just a psychopath, he's an assassin, meaning he is a hired hand. He says so himself, dammit! Also, Mephistopheles is another NPC, who is apart of some sort of sect dedicated to protecting the "secrets of the souls". She actually hires you to kill other NPCs if you take out Yurt. Your attempt at examining these characters "thoroughly" leaves a lot to be desired. Also, what are you referring to when you say Lautrec might have killed Gwynevere? I have seen no indication of this in DS anywhere?

[@brodyun-heroichero3498]

Lord Flashheart When you go to lautrec's world to get revenge the outside is pitch black, indicating he killed Gwynevere in his own world. That's why people say that,

[@TheRealOkinami]

Good observation. I couldn't have said it any better.

[@pipomaggi]

i always take creighton's side. don't know why.

[@kukulkan1717]

very well made dude, love your editing!!!

[@jasoncorn4889]

So doesnt ds3 makes the creghton the cannon serial killer?

[@finndriessen5829]

Why cant both be trustable? I mean they got a problem with each other (not with you) they havent done anything to get youre distrust. And for the bomb in the chest. They knew for certain it coulndt kill you and just wanted some entertainment.

[@chakatBombshell]

Pate is the trustworthy one he just gets a ton of enjoyment from watching people die from traps but won't actively murder them and even tell them its dangerous + actually helps you fight a boss. Creighton is proven to be a random murderer as of Dark Souls 3. Pate is at worst a passive sadist and grave robber, Creighton is however a proven killer. Creighton most likely tried to murder Pate and Pate tricked and trapped him.

[@lubesoggytoes7352]

A feud can always be settled with a bottle of beer

[@trustypatches9434]

How DARE you I'm a saint it's a dog eat dog world out there ya know.... mother would be proud

[@scpfoundation4717]

Hey is there treasure anywhere?

[@wasistdas1894]

SCP Foundation ride down the road

[@IdToaster]

A little late to the party but... I assumed that they were partners in crime for some time, given that they both have a key to the stash and refer to it as theirs, and once Creighton's out of the cell he knows exactly where to find Pate - coincidentally right next to "his" bolthole. The Engraved Gauntlets mention the wealthy merchant Fiorenza searching for them, so it's possible they were hired to find it, and ran off with the goods instead of taking them back to him. There's obviously a lot of possible reasons why they turned on each other, but if it was really that damned ring, it would be the saddest one.

[@Jausch120]

but it would be more likely if it's Pate that Cale thought of since he doesn't wear an Mask

[@JacOfArts]

5:51 I get how late I am, but Mephistopheles is also the person Yurt was working for, who shows up in Demon’s Souls if you kill a good many people. She’ll then send you hunting for those who haven’t yet been killed.

[@thevengefulexecutioner6416]

So on my first playthrough I helped Creighton, got his serial killer armor, and then say bye and even cast a warmth pyromancy to heal him. Then after buying Pate's armor from Melentia, I equipped his spear and shield and murdered Creighton. :)