Ep. 49 The Perfect Cross Stick Sound

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The ever elusive cross stick is something that rarely receives the attention that it deserves. There are a multitude of approaches and, as a result, sounds that can be achieved for different musical contexts. This week, we go down the rabbit hole on everything you could possibly want to know about achieving your ideal cross stick sound.
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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[@jc3drums916]

Damn drum machine makers always call cross stick rim shot.

[@brandonhaywood426]

Probably programmed by a guitarist haha

[@FishingforFisher]

Great in depth video. I also feel that this technique is often overlooked by many drummers.

[@Eurodrummer666]

I like how much you get into the details of every aspect of the drums. I wish someone would have taught me all of this 20 years ago when I started playing.

[@Jayberryplays]

When I'm playing cross stick, my pinky and ring fingers never lose contact with the head. I use this to "anchor" my position. It guarantees consistency from hit to hit. I should also mention that I fingers only touch the head lightly. This controls the overtone, as opposed to squashing it outright. You can really feel the resonance of the drum in your fingertips, and control the tone with extreme accuracy. Also, try making a pocket by cupping the palm of your cross stick hand. That's a whole other set of tones.

[@uncledave8458]

Every cross stick tone is perfect. One isn’t better than the other. One may be more popular

[@Irishpineapple97]

Love the depth you go on this topic. Really nice grooves at the end too!

[@funkdrummer]

SLAD, please don't stop bringing your videos to us. As a performer/educator I think we need info like you present to help educate and elevate drummers. There is so much nuance in all things drumming. It's too easy for anyone with a stick in their hand to hit a drum or cymbal, or drum kit, and make a sound. Does that make said person a musician, NO! Thanks for bringing light to the fine details about drumming!!

[@uncledave8458]

Brian Albus I disagree it does make them a musician. Are you better than them because you have copied more habits of other drummers/ “musicians”. Might the new kid on the block, hitting a drum for the first time with a blank canvas be the true musician

[@timstombaugh5467]

Another great video...thanks! Peter Erskine once mentioned in an interview/lesson that he prefers the sound when he lets the stick rebound off the rim (while still muffling the drum with his hand/fingers). I've tried it and eventually made a habit of doing it this way because it is a good sound, but I will say it's not quite as punchy as when leaving the stick on the rim. Now I'm trying to re-learn how to do it the latter way. It's messing with me, but it will be nice to have both sounds in my arsenal. Just wanted to share the idea...thanks again!

[@redwings02]

Immensely helpful for me as a novice drummer. Thanks for taking the time to break it down like this.

[@garye4678]

Great video man. My old drum teacher taught me to use certain finger motions when trying to get a nice cross stick sound. As you lift the stick to prepare for the hit, your fingers close (the bottom 3 fingers, not the thumb or index finger). As you bring the stick down you push the bottom 3 fingers out whilst maintaining a bit of a cup, that is to say you don't try to flatten out the bottom 3 fingers, leaving a sort of air pocket. He said this attempts to replicate a Slap sound/technique a conga player would use. Since learning this method I rarely need to use the reversed side of the stick to get a nice cross stick sound, although it would be a fatter, louder sound if I did. I guess it's because I use matched grip that I don't use the reverse side, so that I can quickly go back to tip playing without trying to change the stick around.

[@quintessenceSL]

Discovered this channel last week and have binge watched most everything here (even popped for a new snare as I gave up drums decades ago.). The whole plays like "Are You there God, It's Me Margret" for drummers, sorting through a lot stuff I would ask if I'd only known. Nice Kevin Haskins callback.

[@TheMaximusprime09]

i use a 13 inch snare so my cross stick sounds less beefy so i use a percussion block (the red lp one) as the rim and it makes a really interesting sound

[@TomBelknapRoc]

Playing closer to the center helps for my 13. But it's a 13x7, 21-ply maple, so there's a lot of beef to it.

[@funkdrummer]

First, I agree with putting the tip on the head, with most drums. For my 14" snares, this works great. When I play my 13" snare I find I get a better sound when putting the butt of the stick on the head.

[@bacobill]

That "broad map of sounds" you mention goes much deeper in both tone and musical application.. By taking the resting tip gradually towards the center there are endless melodic possibilities.. and it goes even deeper than that if you take the tip from center towards the right rim with the stick (at a right angle) hanging more and more over the edge.. Other than that this is a long overdue video in the world of drumming.. sticks and brushes getting all the glory lol.. You covered the subject brilliantly and didn't miss a beat thank you so much ..(I use a 13" snare)

[@kierenmoore3236]

The difference in pitch was the main thing that stuck (*stick*ed 😉) out to me about 'forwards' vs 'backwards' ...

[@julsrique9148]

I want to congratulate you because I think you heard my feedback back and already. At the first minute you had played three different examples. then two minutes too. That offers more dynamics in the videos and makes them more interesting. Thank you very much for listening to the audience, you have my regards.

[@dangerfolk]

This is so in depth. Exactly what I was looking for that I couldn't find anywhere else. Thank you!

[@davidbcg286]

You guys rock ; such a detailed video!

[@VideoCallInShow]

See, I agree with you that bringing the stick closer to the center of the head makes for a much more pleasing sound. Like you hinted at though, this is all subjective- Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all :)

[@A3woodworks]

If you play Vic Firths, the cross stick sweet spot is where they print "5A" (or whatever model you play). Flip your stick around and put the "5A" on the rim, and you'll have a good cross stick sound. Don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but there you go. Also I've been experimenting with playing ghost notes with my left hand fingers in cross stick mode. Also you can hit the snare with your other stick while your hand is still on the drum and manipulate the sound with how much pressure/area your cross stick hand is putting on the drum.

[@mikesperling9878]

Hey cool! Never though of holding the stick the other way. ^^ thanks will use this in the future. :)

[@bbfoto7248]

+Sounds Like A Drum This was a topic that I haven't really seen covered as well and as in-depth as you have here, so I applaud you for that. You really covered all of the main points that I would have if I were so ambitious to do this. 👍 One other thing that I find...in addition to the type of wood, density, and size of the stick: You can control the resonance & volume of the cross-stick sound by how Lightly OR Tightly you grasp the stick, and/or by how much hand-finger contact you use on the stick (choking it, haha). Also, whether or not you bury into, or rebound the stick, off of the rim. I tend to choose the stick I'm going to use for cross-sticking by its pitch & resonance...think of simple claves...in combination with the drum's individual fundamental tone & overtones. As a side note, some of my favorite snare drums (currently) for cross-stick sound are the following: • 14" x 5" Mapex Black Panther Design Labs EQUINOX maple shell with re-rings & Copper Single-Flange "stick chopper" Hoops & Diplomat Fiberskyn batter head. It's also a FANTASTIC all-around snare in every regard! • 14" x 5.5" Dixon Artisan Series Oak/Steel EQUATOR snare with Die-Cast Hoops. • 14" x 5.5" Pearl Sensitone Elite Black Nickel over Beaded Brass shell with standard triple-flange hoops. Each of these has a special, but unique cross-stick sound. :) Side Note #2: Please realize that I'm just being SUPER nitpicky here :-P As a professional lighting "Gaffer", your lighting for these videos looks generally really good, but it just seems a bit TOO soft and "flat". It might also have to do a bit with your video color-grading style as well, IDK, but I'd like to see just a bit more highlight & contrast...maybe add an edge/rim/hair/back light to add some depth, separation, and "pop" to your videos. It just seems a bit dull and lifeless to me. My 02 cents FWIW. Thanks heaps for the fantastic topics & content, and otherwise fantastic production quality (sound quality especially)! Keep on keeping on. 👍

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@joshuabpolys]

So grateful to you guys!!!

[@wolfgangweingarten626]

You would think that something as obvious as turning off the snare wires wouldn't be an "aha" moment but.....😏. Always time well spent when watching your vids.

[@TimSuliman]

A couple of years ago I decided finally to buy a nice snare. I was at Chicago Music Exchange and I tested lots of drums. I always make sure to try a cross-stick and when I did one on a 5.5 x 14 Ludwig Black Beauty it was like the heavens opened. That was the deciding factor for me to buy the drum.

[@logjamstomper1280]

Very helpful. Thanks.

[@mylittlepuppy4208]

Another awesome video - I just discovered this channel last week and it's become my favorite drum channel! This one was of particular interest to me, as I play in a reggae/rocksteady band. Our bandleader asked that I really pay attention to my cross stick sound, as it wasn't coming out in recording. It doesn't help that I prefer thin sticks (8D). But I found the trick to be getting the stick to come down on the thicker part of the shoulder. Using the butt end is a way nicer sound, but then I can forget about getting any doubles with my left hand. It's working for now, albeit a very narrow strikezone, so I may need to move up to 5A's. Sigh.

[@xopianoi]

At some point in the past I developed a habit of checking my grip to make sure that the wood grain in the stick is perpendicular to the rim.. I always thought that improved the tone.

[@billsugarman2386]

As a Jazz drummer for more than 60 years, I've used cross sticking consistently in my playing. I very often change the tone even within the same measure by moving the pivot point as you have described. For example I might play a "click" on beat 2 followed by a "clack" on beat 4 for two measures (please forgive the onomatopoeias "clucks" and "clunks" won't work). However, when playing a bossa, I tend to retain a rather constant tone that's quite mellow and perhaps wood blockish.

[@SAHBfan]

I have a drum tutor written in 1934 by Max Bacon. Max played for The Ambrose orchestra, often described as one of the best dance bands in the world. I never heard him described as 'The world's greatest drummer', although he was very highly respected at the time, but he was quite probably the highest paid drummer in the World for a decade or so. He predates 'Star' drummers such as Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich and belonged to an era when the drummer was very much a backing musician. Anyway - his technique for cross stick beats was to lift the stick above the drum and then drop it on the head so the tip hits the skin and the butt end hits the rim at exactly the same time. It is quite tricky to do... but then so is a properly executed rim shot and it is a similar idea. He describes rhythms where he is using a mix of cross stick and rim shots with both hands. It is a tragedy that there is no film footage of him demonstrating these beats, as the description of what he is doing suggests a command of snare drum techniques that are quite unlike what most of us play today. All on calf skin with gut snares and 'stick chopper' rims, of course.

[@julsrique9148]

For me, the World's Greatest Drummer is Dave Weckl!

[@jobelewis6416]

SAHBfan this is what I do! I really loud cross stick sounds and naturally moved into this technique!

[@Aleph_Null_Audio]

2:10 PREACH! 🙌 I like to play ghost notes by tapping with my index and middle fingers while posting cross stick. Not sure where I picked that up, but it doesn't seem to be very common.

[@fredlittle8127]

Thanks for this video on a real “topic of conversation”. I’m one of those guys that uses and actually has a couple of the RM Groove Wedges. Along with that I routinely mark the sweet spot on all of my sticks (different for different models), to insure a consistent target sound. You are absolutely right on difficulty of getting a good sound on a small drum. I have what I call a rhythm kit, used on small acoustic/singer/song writer gigs. With this I use a 10”x6" snare. To get the best cross stick on this, I have cut down a 16”, .555 stick to about 12" and get a surprisingly good sound from the flanged rim. The size is a bit annoying however.

[@patrickfarley8036]

GREAT VIDEO! Excellent topic which was very well presented. You addressd in minutes what took me years to find out for myself by experience. One thing I would like to reiterate that you mentioned in a less direct way is that the drum kit and sticks ( or the combination of variables 😉) one has chosen to use for one's own sound or that of the particular gig, will lend itself to the overall sound of the band and music. So anything played on that kit will be consistant with what's going on sonically even the cross sticking. For instance if the kit is mahogany, the sound will be mellow with a fast decay so the cross sticking is going to be mellow with a short decay. There won't be a bright sharp crack all of the sudden. So what you get will "work" in the mix. Of course the hot ticket in this 21st century is to have a second and possibly 3rd snare drum along side for a broader pallet of sound, but if not used with forethought those side snares could irreparably damage the music and no one wants that! After all, as a musician our sole purpose is to serve the music. Do that well and everything else will fall into place! Again, thanks for a great video and allowing us to chime in. Peace

[@marty9464]

I prefer the solid lower pitch "whack/clack" sound as opposed to a higher pitch "click" sound and have been using that since the 70's. To achieve this rich sound you must lay the stick across the drum from lug to lug, always making sure you strike the rim directly above a lug. This is where the rim is most solid and thus gives the richest sound. Striking straight down is also important for a full rich sound, which is also easier to achieve a consistent sound. I've never focused on the distance of the tip from the rim, rather just how far over the rim on the striking side I get the richest sound. Generally that's about 2" or so. Also important is hand placement... if you only contact the head with the heel of your hand (the round portion above the wrist, below your pinky ) and then cup you hand, the sound is open and full. To adjust volume, I simply strike harder or softer. This technique works equally well in big band situations as well as intimate trio settings.

[@mattzitzer7607]

Loved the longer video

[@christopherodonnell1504]

Good video and topic! Another technique is a "Gaddism" where he brings the cross stick down and glances the tom rim on the way. Makes a cool flam effect. Butt end of a stick on a die cast hoop is da bee's knees. :)

[@secondsbeforelanding]

another well done video. very informative !!

[@Riddim4]

Something you can do to get a decent cross stick sound with a smaller snare and no jam block is to put the tip on the snare head and reach up to the nearest tom rim with the butt of the stick. That will give a usable rim click.

[@kimeland6427]

Nice video. I actually find that the sweet spot lies more in the stick than in the drum. Therefore I find my favorit cross stick sound in each stick in my bag and draw a line around it with a marker where the stick meets the rim. I mark it in both ends so I have the optimal sound with both tip and but on the head. This way I always hit the right sound and don't have to ajust or second guess. Off cause I can always make variation on purpose.

[@iopsyc15]

Excellent video! Thank you for the in depth analysis. Fwiw, there was a drumstick marketed, briefly, in the mid 80s for cross sticking purposes. It had four flat sides (like a square dowel) that eventually tapered to a regular drumstick tip. I believe it was made by Promark? Something like that might mitigate the issue with smaller diameter snare drums.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

I remember those! Some wild sticks with some pretty funny marketing. -Ben

[@trevorjalla]

Not the hero we deserved, but the one we needed

[@NoslenLRac]

Many, many, many variables and sound options. Great demonstration, guys! Personally, I’m playing a Vic 5A and AJ2. The 5A sounds better with the tip on the head, but the AJ2, with a long taper has a great sound with the butt on the head AND with the tip down. They’re different sounds, but both are strong.

[@ericessenberg3591]

I try to bring the stick down on the rim right over the top of the tension rod. It seems like I get a bit more volume. Also try this, eighth notes on a closed hi hat , cross stick quarter notes. On the kick do, and ONE. Like boom BOOM. That pattern speaks to me somehow. Nother great video guys. Thanks

[@stephenplotnick5133]

Yes, right over the tension rod for a louder, fuller sound.

[@patrickfarley8036]

That pattern you described, you mean kinda like "Driven to Tears" by The Police?

[@ericessenberg3591]

patrick farley not as fast as Drivin to tears. More like a walking tempo. Leave the kick out on counts 2-3-&4. And ONE. ba-BOOM. DIG?

[@MANUEL11]

00:48

[@matthewpaluch777]

Imho Stewart Copeland has the best cross stick sound! Unfortunately my sticks have coated grips so I use a wood and jam block to achieve a similar sound.

[@plasticgodzilla1]

I really like to play "flammy" cross sticks, where you don't rest on the head but instead use the sound of the stick touching the head right before the other end of that stick hits the rim. You can even spice these up by getting off the head quickly and letting the drum ring. Endless posibilities.. :)

[@nope3015]

Thickness and density of stick matters so much.

[@johnrobinson8323]

I usually use the stick with the fat end on the rim when I want more volume and a fatter click. And l'll use the stick facing with the bead end over the rim when I want a little less sound. That way when I use the fat end it really comes out dynamically louder and fuller sounding.

[@TomBelknapRoc]

I play my cross sticks with the stick facing the regular way, cup my hand around the stick to help manage overtones, and play probably 2-3" from the side of the head: very close to the center. But really: when you're playing out or working out the nuances of a track, pretty much any hand position that makes the sound you want is what you should use. I will generally make a ton of adjustments even as I play.

[@bigkickleo]

"Cross Stick" or "Rim Click" if you would be so kind - the term "Rim Shot" should be reserved for hitting the drumhead with the end of the stick and simultaneously making contact with the hoop - like when a Vaudeville comedian states the punchline 😎👍🏻

[@alparrott]

I'm using S-hoops on my 13" snare and they really give a righteous cross-stick, tip forward or back.

[@toomdog]

16:36 That right foot triple though. I often find myself bringing the tip 2 or 3 inches away from the hoop for low pitch, fat, warm sound. Playing 60’s rock on a deep Ludwig. I guess that’s where my ears hear the sweet spot. Sometimes that’s a little too much, so I bring the tip further back towards the hoop. I never thought about going offset with my cross stick before. I’ll have to play around with that.

[@thundermolloy]

Bakc when I was just starting, i took some chalk and marked where my stick should be (tip and where om the rim) for a cross stick sound. It was great cause it would fade over time till I knew it. Also, i tried mounting a wood block right over my rim to use as my strike surface (worked OK but not the best). Though i should mention that a highhat rod mounted (turned to like 9 or 10 oclock) wood block works great for gigs where youre playing With bundle rods (as those hotrod types just dont give a great cross stick sound nor is it good for longevity). Or get some headhunters crossovers.

[@yelltempus]

Found out by accident that when playing on snares that are smaller than 14" dia., don't turn the stick around. Works great on 13" snares & even some 12" drums. Good topic, amigo.

[@pyroeuropa]

I get the ,,Snares off" sound with Snares on... I don't know how this works, but I like it :D Its a pearl sentitone steel (triple flanged) and I tuned it on both sides mid/high with tight (not too tight) wires

[@sidmarks265]

Another pearl of a video. Many thanks. I can find the sweet spot but for some reason this moves when I'm playing. I don't know but would it be useful to make a felt tip mark on the drum head as a guide for hand placement? (Thinking Aloud) Probably too many variables to work. One thing I have noticed though is, if I'm stretching to reach the drum and not comfortable it effects the sound. If I pull the drum a little bit closer this helps. I call this a rim click, is that right?

[@ralphbenites1312]

Sergio mendes drummer uses a lot of bossa nova beats & Brian hylans sealed with a kiss

[@ralphbenites1819]

Ray Charles.what I say.has the cross stick technique 🥁

[@jameshepar6841]

Serious Cross Stick Upgrade The RimRiser any Drum..

[@ralphbenites1819]

The tokens.the lion sleeps tonight 😁👍

[@ianisaacs2340]

I would like to see a video on bass drum felt strips. Does it matter if it is placed horizontal or vertical and batter only, reso only and felt on both heads. Lastly what size felts do you use and where do you guys get them?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That's definitely in the plans! Thanks for chiming in! -Ben

[@chromebull884]

I had problems with all of these projecting. So I got an orange jam block and it is much louder

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Those jam blocks will definitely scream through just about anything the band is playing, that's for sure! -Ben

[@mkrhythm9751]

Check out the new RhymBlock product, real wood tone and they clip right onto the rim. Much more versatile than a rimriser, they are an actual woodblock for multiple rhythmic patterns and sounds.

[@jakobtraxl8448]

as someone who plays 99% butt end on the head, my 2 cents: your comparison @ 2'53 isn't really fair, because(!) you didn't change the pivot point. with the butt end on the head, you must move a little more to the center of the drum to get a comparable sound. or move it up or down slighty, like you did a minute later. other than that, great video as usual. and some videos worth mentioning when talking about rim click (or cross stick, i prefer the former): carter beauford, not resting his palm on the head, thus freeing it up: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pomcqYKnjsSdjtU brian blade playing with snares off and having a big portion of the stick "hanging" over the rim, making the click sound pretty dark and soft (at 2'21 he changes the position briefly and gets a more "regular" click sound) kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5CTq6WaZ9pmq80 lee harris of talk talk probably playing butt end on the head and very close to the rim, resulting in a very thin sound (unfitting for most musical situations or tastes) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoTKY4J_e9qgadE

[@jc3drums916]

I orient my snare drum like a classical percussionist, with the throw-off at 6 o'clock. (I got the idea from watching Terry Bozzio; I think Chad Wackerman does the same thing.) This makes it equally easy to reach the throw-off with either hand (but perhaps a bit harder to turn the snares on/off). It also slightly reduces the amount of space I need between my knees for the snare. The nice thing about this set-up for cross-stick is, if you're anal like I am, and you orient the batter head so that the logo is in line with the drum badge, you have a marker that tells you where to put the stick for a beefy sound. This is true for my 14" 10-lug snares, at least. For an 8-lug snare, the logo will be a little higher up, at 9 o'clock vs. 8:24, but it should still be close enough to do the trick. For a 6-lug snare, it depends on whether the badge is closer to the throw-off or the butt plate. If you're not anal, just orient the logo to 8:24. If you're anal about keeping the logo at 12 o'clock, I can't help you.

[@ralphbenites1819]

The doors.break on though.has a bossa nova beat

[@atoms12123]

How do you choose between all those gorgeous snares?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

I've experimented with the each quite a bit to figure out what sounds I like out of them. That being said, I'll pull a drum off the shelf and "rediscover it" from time to time given the context of new music I'm listening to/fresh sounds in my ears. We'll do a video or two on the topic in the future. Cheers! -Ben

[@atoms12123]

@@SoundsLikeADrum I meant for each video but I'm sure the process is the same! (Although I'm drawn to that WMP Jazz Fest I've seen in the background a few times. That thing is puuuuurdy.)

[@atoms12123]

@William Fotiou Excellent point. Just looked again, saw the badge and the lugs and immediately went jazz fest, but yeah, you're right, looks 6 lug.

[@alanduncan1980]

You can't always turn the stick around, but I try to make a habbit of doing it. It does sound a bit better, but sometimes it doesn't matter too much to me. If I were playing a tune that was all cross stick then I'll use the butt of the stick.

[@iniufakmoffat6451]

What is it called when you hit the two drumstick together?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

There's not necessarily a standard name for that but we'd generally refer to it as a "stick click".

[@audacityman]

Some of the reggae and ska cays almost throw the stick down and keep the tip near the base of the little finger.

[@neekondrums]

For the kind of music I like to play and the type of sound I hear in my head, Stewart Copeland has always been my reference for a good cross stick sound. From a technique perspective, I've always found his full cross stick slam pretty interesting. (Check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJSTYp2giNyLbdU at 37 and 41 seconds in as examples.) He often did this when coming back with this left hand to the snare from another surface.

[@drew_on_drums]

What about body shot? Is it similar to that?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Or the espresso shot that may or may not have happened during the filming of these episodes... #caffeinateddrumsounds

[@jameshepar6841]

Check out The RimRiser

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yep, we’re familiar.

[@willdatsun]

micing tips please.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We’ve got a whole video on simple mic techniques!

[@willdatsun]

@@SoundsLikeADrum I mean specifically for different side stick sounds. Would you place mic differently if a track was using side stick rather than snare head hits?

[@DrumGearGeek]

One thing I like doing is varying the position of the tip (intentionally) to get a phaser/flanger sound: instagram.com/p/BfM3-X0Hzfw/

[@Quartiano]

15:10

[@robladd4994]

It freaks me out when I see drummers break rule #1.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

It's definitely a different sound (though not necessarily a bad one. The "rule" reference here was a bit tongue-in-cheek because of that. -Ben

[@robladd4994]

Yes, and Cody made that very clear :) But I see people just being lazy.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Forgot to mention metal...

[@DarthCiliatus]

Obligitory 1st comment

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Obligatory first response 🎉