How to Tune for the Room | Season Five, Episode 22

[@paulrevelli]

Excellent presentation, sir. To your point about working with sound people at certain venues, I can recall doing a blues jam once and the sound person at the venue was clearly someone who only mixed heavy metal. To my astonishment, when we brought the band down to whisper quiet during a guitar solo, the sound person had so much compression and low end on the kick that no matter how soft I tried to play it it was still shaking the rafters. I just stopped playing it altogether until we came back up dynamically. Afterwards the gig, I tried to impart to him the importance of dynamics in musics other than metal and that compression on components of the drum kit didn't always serve the music well. Hopefully he understood (and that I didn't get him fired!). But inasmuch as we drummers have to adapt to the room, it's equally important for sound engineers to firmly grasp what is required for the music and any inherent dynamics. Communication and flexibility on both sides of the console are important. ☮

[@jas_bataille]

Absolutely. And I will add, as a sound engineer, that I am a firm believer that this person wasn't really a "sound engineer" but rather just someone pushing knobs in a bar - nothing wrong with that, I do this myself quite regularly. And I wand to say this also extremely clearly : 99% of the time, ***the drummer play too loud.*** I know. I also 20 years experience drumming. I still am being told to bring it down. Also you shouldn't mic a damn kit in a small venue, perhaps a little bit on the kick drum, with a mono overhead pointing at the middle of the kit between the top of the kick and the snare - but other than that, completely insane!

[@ArborGeist]

I was one of those "open tunings, all the time" for a loooong time. Now I love muffling to help tame the sound in different rooms and get a different feel and tone. My bandmates also appreciate it!

[@johnrobinson8323]

I like to put a small dot on the ride cymbal from time to time. It definitely brings out the articulation and lowers the ring in a small live room. 🥁❤️

[@jeremy20100712]

I once had a situation where a mic'd unmuffled rack tom fed back on itself (not the typical howl, but the tom tone itself). The response from the PA caused the drum to resonate, get picked up by the mic and on and on. The tone was perfectly stable, neither fading or crescendoing. It could have gone on forever. A bit of muffling solved the problem.

[@jeffreywegener8841]

True & thanks again. I have a fiend who does very well as an indie rock drummer. Vintage kits - open tuning. Never adjust much for the room much but he had great tech support. Jim R White .

[@artcorvolet]

ahh, the never ending self battle of trusting it sounds better out front when poopy sounding to you!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

One of the most challenging aspects of performance!

[@artcorvolet]

@@SoundsLikeADrum absolutely! Keep up the great work!

[@theworshipdrummern8]

I always tune and experiment with muffling techniques to make my kit sound good from F.O.H. perspective. I wear IEMs so the driver's seat sound isn't such a big deal. I'd much rather sound good to those listening.

[@artcorvolet]

@@theworshipdrummern8 absolutely

[@GrizDrummer25]

I have that battle in a converted bedroom when trying to get the best sound a simple 6' to my tascam ;P

[@jonashellborg8320]

Each room is different- yes, when I stepped from home practise to an actively gigging drummer, “quick tuning” has become a thing I care about now. Listen to the room, try to hear the kit from far away if you can, and make quick adjustments. I have a brass snare drum, and a ride cymbal that, lush as they are, can get very loud in those glass, wood etc reflective, bare walls places. Adjusting the resonant head is a good start, then I tend to tape the cymbal slightly, plus remind myself to go easy that night.

[@robclaytondrums531]

Yep. All so true and correct. Great advice and the, “cooking in someone else’s room”, explains it perfectly. Great stuff once again 👌🏼

[@danielenstrom1873]

Wow. Sooo much fantastic information in this video! Never heard of double click to drum sound! Wow!

[@DoctorPermafrost]

Very informative once again! I'm currently on tour and this speaks volume. The cotton ball in the floor tom trick has been a massive improvement in fighting these room sounds and feel variations as far as I'm concerned.

[@kushking420]

I should show this to some guitar players who don't understand how much a room can change the sound of my drums. Also humidity and weather changes the tension on the heads. Great video

[@cookiebutter44]

That cooking analogy really hit home for me! Great episode 👏🏽🙏🏽

[@martinlaporte2112]

I always tune to the room. Dead room, tighten the heads a bit, and no muffling. Live room, loosen the heads, and use some moon gel.

[@dutcur]

Thank you for another fantastic video! This is exactly what I want to work on next.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

You're very welcome!

[@timharrison2076]

I think how empty/full the room is should have got a mention. The room could be full of hard surfaces but sounds could easily be absorbed by the number of bodies in there.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Admittedly, we discussed this behind the scenes but apparently didn’t film any of it. This is definitely an important consideration. Cheers!

[@jeffreywegener8841]

Good point. People / the audience will change the room sound . So sound Chk totally different to performance ?????

[@sipzter]

FYI Only - Tried to look at some Tees in your store but could not open it or get to the store . Always enjoy you training videos! When I was playing I really could have used so MUCH of what you guys offer Great Stuff. Thank you.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks so much for the heads up! We'll look into this. Cheers!

[@TsunamiBeefPies]

Another great presentation, thank you again! Back when I was playing in a working band, the worst setup I was ever presented with was a stage in the corner of the room, and the walls behind the stage were mirrors. Of course I was put in the corner. The only thing I could do to mitigate this ridiculous setting was to try to play as softly as I could, which was against my nature, but I really did try. Even so, it was one of those situations where at times it got so loud back in my corner that a strange sort of silence seemed to fall around me. I was never so glad to finish a gig in my life.

[@latentsea]

Potentially lots of low end sound pressure build up in a corner, but little sound velocity. Not a good place for human brain, and ears. Better place for a nice big bass trap.

[@TsunamiBeefPies]

@@latentsea Oddly enough, the times in my life when this has occurred (another time was during the finale of a huge fireworks display) have been moments of wonder for me. Each time, I was struck by the sheer irony of it. Also, I was recognizing that it was something my brain was doing in self-defense. So, all in all, it isn't a feeling I'm hoping to repeat again, as I'm sure you can understand.

[@dnczardnczar]

Back in the day my biggest nightmare was the old, pre-amplification, Sousa era bandshells commonly found in parks and state fair grounds. There is so much echo from intentionally trapped sound for natural amplification you don't know what's real and what isn't in what you're hearing. At times the only solution was to get as far out of the shell as realistically possible. At times it was so bad that a drums only monitor system playing in my ears was used. I don't know if it's true or not but I was told this extreme is why opera halls have the orchestra in a pit outside of and below the stage.

[@martinbladelvan1949]

Okay, horror story: a small venue, hard surfaces everywhere and much, much longer than it was in the other dimensions. It was nearly impossible to tune my conga-drums because the room worked like a long pipe being hit at one end (or a bandpass filter being pinged) so every hit ended up sounding the same after the initial attack.

[@frankcianciarulo7823]

How about a little muffling, like a piece of foam rubber tucked up inside the shell?

[@martinbladelvan1949]

@@frankcianciarulo7823 : I treated all my conga's that way already

[@jas_bataille]

Turn around so your conga sound reflect on the wall on the side first? I don't know, just a thought. I mean it probably won't change much if at all... play

[@latentsea]

Move 1/3 the way into the space. So you may have to play from the 7th or 8th row.

[@PabloJ1968]

You are the best.

[@BadChizzle]

No roaches in the new kitchen, though. Not aiming at anything… just a joke. Another good show, guys! Thank you!!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That’s…good news! 😂

[@marcusmcclelland]

When i used too play alot i used too take a couple of snares. I always has a steel snare and a wood one. I had the wood snare open and tuned medium high. and the steel one low fat and dampened and between the two one always seemed to work alright. I mostly used my toms open but used tape and tissue to change them when needed. i left my kick floppy as i could too get it low as i could. I found it was easier when runing through a pa. Sometimes i would tighten it up too get a bit more level and sustain from it outside without mics. I found it anoying. You would get the kit too sound good take it into a different situation and it was all wrong. Make it easy as you can without carrying too much stuff. Time is always the thing you need to save when you are playing in different places and moving your gear around. Don't be afraid to change somthing when its not working for you. depending what your doing somtimes drumkit placement can help with getting the sound right. when your outside going for maximum level you will be louder if you get close as you can too a hard wall behind you and more againg in a corner.

[@jlozzano6559]

You're right, the sound of the drums change a lot according to the room. What drum head are you using on your snare drum?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks for watching! We've got a UV1 on the snare today. Also, we include all of the gear used in the episodes in the description if you're ever curious about heads, drums, cymbals, mics, etc. Cheers!

[@ArenBMcLovin]

I also play acoustic electric bass and have recently noticed that it project tha sound differently depending on tha size of tha room and what material tha walls of tha I play it in are made of, and my conclusion is that acoustic instruments needs to be retuned every time they’re gonna be used in a different sized rooms/environment.

[@JLoveDrums94]

I always get so caught off guard by how my drums sound outside of my room. It still sounds good, just a drastic difference. Like I have a whole different set.

[@spencerchapman9508]

One scenario I haven't heard, both on this video and your channel over the years, is how to get a big sound out of low volume playing. The scenario is: you're playing cover songs that either have big-sounding drums as the reference or the intensity of the music is big.... but the venue has room for 50 people only or it's in a very live space. In other words if you play above a mezzo forte you over power everyone. What are your tips?

[@joecoleman288]

Pass out earplugs at the door.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

There are so many factors to account for but the key is to understand what aspect(s) of your sound need to be big. Is it the length of the note? The amount of resonance? Generally speaking, less attack will allow for greater tonal presence and the lessened articulation makes more space for the rest of the ensemble. You have to weigh these factors and determine what the music and room calls for.

[@danzitoli2796]

Well done! Great practical ideas and solution tips! So what if you're the "band liaison"?! lol. I get bandmates to play the set and you can imagine how that can go....; )

[@MatbiangShadap]

This is very helpful.. Thank you.. 🔥

[@lutzmackenstedt249]

I guess I will need a booth/enclosure in my new flat in a few months 😢 It will be big enough for a drum set and my guitar and bass setup. I need to have good isolation because of the neighbors. But I am not sure about the sound/ deadness inside the cabin. 🤷‍♂️

[@awesomeasyou]

What cymbals are you using. A customs?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

All gear is listed in the video description.

[@isihernandez9752]

In general I agree with what you discussed here, but I'm not a big fan of tightening the cymbals for muting them, though. I understand what you mean and why, but the fact they suffer more when they're tight and the risk of cracking them (maybe not too much if you do it once, but it rises the more often you do), just makes it worthless for me. Especially when there are other ways to achieve the same. For instance, one thing I would do is using wider felts, instead of tighten them more. Even the dividers that come usually with cymbals hard cases are useful for that, putting them underneath the regular felt. The wider area of those felts makes a bigger contact with the cymbal and mutes them more without the need of tightening too much. And you can cut them to "tune them" if they're too big and bothers you to play the bell, for instance. You can also use some tape, wich I neither like because it stains the cymbals. Of course you know you can chose different types of sticks depending on the situation, using lighter and softer ones if you need less volume. And if your budget allows you and you don't mind the expense, you can have different cymbals for the occasion, louder or less louder so you can chose to best for the gig, and just play them normally.

[@jas_bataille]

How could you crack bronze by tightening two pieces of felt top and bottom? I mean.... how? I just don't see how that's physically possible. The felts would be ruined before the bronze would move a molecule in its structure. Also, a cymbal divider will completely mute the cymbal almost 100%, killing all the tone - at least the ones I know are quite thick... and wider felts? Under the belt, sure, but on top it removes the access to it. Never seen it in 18 years playing and I've played a lot...! Drum camps and masterclasses. I'm not saying this is wrong but I have seen zero player use any of those techniques. I'll have to try for myself and see I guess :)

[@blakeglover9618]

What about playing in a concrete basement? What do you recommend for Better sound?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

As mentioned in the episode, you’ve got to assess the situation and determine what factors you have control over. If you regularly play in this space and it’s untreated, you may consider some acoustic treatment in addition to tuning adjustments. Still, the principles covered in this episode apply regardless of the space.

[@paulrevelli]

Try hanging some packing blankets from the ceiling. You'd be surprised how effective and relatively inexpensive this is. Move 'em around until you hear something you like. You could also treat the walls with some foam wedges and an appropriate spray adhesive (like SLAD recommends).

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

@@paulrevelli Packing blankets can help a bit when it comes to high frequency absorption but we don't generally recommend foam, instead option for broadband control (if you're willing to make the investment). This is where there's tremendous benefit to speaking with professional acousticians like the team over at GIK Acoustic (that's who we used).

[@davidsuprenant893]

Blake I play in a CONCREAT world myself.very thick poured walls and floor.i framed,insulated,paneled, and installed a drop ceiling.Its very hard to get a great drum sound in it.all I can tell ya is spend a lot of time tunning to reach your sound. Otherwise the alternative is very expensive buying foam panels.!

[@latentsea]

Wear 32db sound reducing headphones made for gardeners using leaf blowers. Home Depot, 3M and Milwaukee. Then let em rip!

[@davidfaria6194]

Played on a triangular shaped stage and room. I could not do anything to the kit So I just accepted. It gives a gig and swore off, never play there again. It was miserable and bothered me the whole time

[@jas_bataille]

I don't know why you would to counteract the effect of the space if the effects are good. If they aren't, you can go whatever - personally at this point I just use something than sticks instead of a lot of dampening that you need to remove afterward, and I adjust my technique a lot more than my tuning. Now, I want to say this extremely clearly as a live sound engineer : 99% of the time, **the drummer play too loud.** I know. I also 20 years experience drumming. I still am being told to bring it down. I know it can be frustrating, but it will get you gigs if you can play real quiet, and you *will* be a lot more musical! Also you shouldn't mic a damn kit in a small venue, perhaps a little bit on the kick drum, with a mono overhead pointing at the middle of the kit between the top of the kick and the snare - but other than that, completely insane!

[@j.vincentdrums4812]

Bandanna?? Please show

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yep! Watch our episodes on muffling. Wee covered this quite a bit.

[@xaverk]

I hope you don't mind a little criticism. Your videos contain too much, often generic talk and far too little demonstration. That was different in the past - better. The interludes do not add to the topic, just a bit jamming on the drum set. Let's talk about this video right here. Why don‘t you go to different locations and demonstrate how your tuning etc. affects the sound in that specific environment? What about playing in a church, playing with isolation walls or within an orchestra, setups with and without mics? This could even be done during the sound check for a show or any gig with specific/difficult acoustic conditions. This would be highly interesting especially for not so experienced drummers. Sorry, Cody, but just talking is just boring.