Sourdough Bread: The Science and Art | A Comprehensive Guide

[@anaxiomenes3964]

A comprehensive overview how to technically approach bread-making, Novita does a superb job. For the viewer, a challenging, nonetheless alluring video exercise that explains the intricate core science principles involved in baking sour bread accurately and distinctively. No stones have been left unturned. Confident speaking skills, fair balance theory-practice explained and executed convincingly for a meticulous and dedicated professional home baker to follow. Thanks to you and your production team for showing enthusiasm and passion in such an educational undertaking.

[@sergiominelli3526]

Finally a you tube channel that shows the scientific side of bread making. Congratulation Novita ! Follow in this way .

[@khodayehrangekaman315]

Hello , there is no doubt in my mind that you are a great bread master & great teacher to teach the knowledge . I wish you had a short recipe to make the different breads ❤ thank you 🕊️🕊️🇺🇸 🦅

[@wykedmoose7642]

OK, awesome content, seriously awesome graphics. You are a very, very, very engaging orator, scientist, teacher, ....etc. it's really nice to watch someone speak intelligently about baking from a technical aspect. TY TY TY

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you!

[@randrescastaneda]

I can't thank you enough. All of your videos are super informative and relevant for those who want to go deep into the Sourdough bread making and other types of bakery products. Very nice work. Also, having the papers in the description of the video is a beautiful touch of professionalism. You should write a book explaining all of this. Making it super practical but still scientific enough. In fact, you could write one book on Sourdough only! Thanks again!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you, glad you like them! As for the book, maybe, someday :)

[@mikaeltulloch-reid7065]

excellent

[@RichardHoltVen]

Thank you Seraphim. Your videos are a breath of sanity to bread making. Especially yudane clarity.

[@simplicity6564]

Holy moly, that was a lot and quick, but really informative. I'll have to watch it again, especially the actual bread making part. Thanks.

[@bejacaa8966]

This is an amazing tutorial - thank you!

[@claretmichelangeli3000]

Best explanation ever..very well done! ❤

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks 🙏

[@z2kk]

A pleasant blend of science, technique, baking, and fun. Best content! 🍞🥖🧈

[@NovitaListyani]

Wow, thanks!

[@chrisaumaugher3732]

I rarely comment, but I loved your video. The science style approch with your natural practical awarness, just works. Thanks

[@NovitaListyani]

Wow, thank you!

[@smitajal9565]

Hi Novita, iam a big fan of your fruit yeast breads....i still bake them and have tried with different fruits till now... This video too is so awesome...love how you explain every small detail, i can keep on listening...but yeah, you make it so easy to understand ... Thank you so much for putting in so much efforts to explain to us this science of sourdough. Seasons greetings to you and your family.... sending you loads of love and positive energies from India 💕💕💕💕

[@NovitaListyani]

My pleasure 😊 Smita, happy holidays to you too!

[@hj8607]

Thank you for a well balance presentation that includes a fa better understanding of the sour dough starter . The knowledge of the starter development is , along with ability at building surface tension, absolutely key to success at baking sourdough. Well done!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it! The deeper we dig into sourdough, the more we like it. Thanks for your comment.

[@chopsddy3]

This is an extremely valuable video. Your ability to search out the “how and why” and share what you’ve discovered so effectively is inspiring. Thanks so much for your efforts. They are much appreciated here. BTW that crumb is beautiful.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it! We hope this compilation of scientific facts with a simple recipe can be useful for anyone who want to know more about sourdough :)

[@andriedemetriou3113]

Your extremely well explanation, is highly convincing to any listener, to follow your recipes. 👏

[@idtodorov]

Thank you ever so much! It is hard to find evidence based art but you do it well and im happy i found you. ❤

[@NovitaListyani]

You are so welcome!

[@lissyperez4299]

Love the science!

[@KimSooAcu]

Who is your editor please?!?! This video is sooo good!

[@ghlscitel6714]

Pintar dan cantik amoy bali. Greetings from Germany

[@pachin253]

A good jo!! We have to wait for something delicious🥖 Have a good day🥖

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you! You too!

[@pedroalvarez392]

Excelente información y muy bien explicado Novita, aprecio tu esfuerzo y dedicación un saludo desde Aguascalientes México pedro:)

[@NovitaListyani]

Saludos desde Bali, gracias!

[@yvonnekoo9656]

As always, your generous sharing of your in-depth knowledge about the science and art of bread-making is much appreciated. I have tried a number of your bread recipes and the products all turn out to be good. The sourdough I made today following your recipe and instructions is the best I have made (in my very short history of making sourdoughs). However, I find the hydration level in the dough to be very high, as the bread crumb is a bit dense. The dough in its final stages was still sticky, unlike the smooth dough shown in your video. I am from Hong Kong, and the temperature currently is around 30C and the humidity level 88%. Should I reduce the water amount and/or reduce the resting time between each S&F, as well as the bulk fermentation time? Most grateful for your advice.

[@NovitaListyani]

Your weather does seem rather warm, it's definitely a good idea to try reducing the dough's overall fermentation time. Sourdough starters can also be quite variable, so you might have to go through a bit of trial and error. As for hydration, it has more to do with the flour's quality/protein content, make sure you're using a strong bread flour if you can. Thanks for the comment, and happy baking!

[@yvonnekoo9656]

@@NovitaListyani Thank you for responding so quickly. I am using a strong bread flour and find that it is highly absorbent. So I wish to seek expert advice on whether reducing hydration would be a good direction to take, while I continue to experiment with making this type of bread. Thanks.

[@arnipoldus]

I really love the theoretical parts of your videos. Bread making is an art and many succeed through experience and many tries and errors, but getting the theory too really gives a headstart and helps avoid many unnecessary iterations on the path to mastery. So thank you for filling that void 😀.

[@NovitaListyani]

Well said. Thank you!.

[@idaeinjaw2139]

Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your generosity!

[@Raul28153]

Love your channel. There are alternatives to the Pregelatinized wheat starch for moistness; cooked rice or potato do the same thing. Try it. It's a pre-gel starch from another source

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed, there are other pre-gelatinized starch, tried some already :) Thanks for your comment.

[@anaxiomenes3964]

Often, leaving the unfed starter in the fridge for a day-two, clear liquid rises to the top. The solid at the bottom of the glass jar turns extensible (many videos recommend not using this damaged, unsuitable starter for bread making; instead, use part of it and create a new starter). No quantities/ratios/pH values of this damaged starter are ever given; “just a teaspoonful ought to be enough to add to your fresh new starter”, home bakers in their video presentation recommend. Now, a few questions: K. What is the composition profile of this top liquid? L. What has occurred to glutenin and gliadin lying at the bottom of the glass jar? M. What’s the protein content of the flours used in your presentation? N. No fat was used in your presentation. Is it a matter of functionality and/or organoleptic perception opting for their use in sourdough bread making? Thank you.

[@shunwahwong]

Great job!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the visit

[@shunwahwong]

@@NovitaListyaniapart from your finesse,the black obsidian(seem like) work stone is my favorite !

[@simplicity6564]

Hi. First, incredible dive and explanation into sourdough! For me, this is such a clarifying explanation. I'm confused about a part of the video. At the 21 minute mark you show the 3 Log rise phases and a graph on the right where it appears you correlate the rise of the dough? I think your saying that there's a correlation between the three fermentation generations of the 1:5:5 feeding and the rises of the final dough?

[@NovitaListyani]

Yes, exactly

[@billndolo3599]

Hi Novita, please do a croissant recipe.

[@joaomaia9140]

What is better the 1:2:2 or the 1:5:5? Thanks

[@luke9822]

9:18 this paper is not referenced in the description. Posting a comment to let you know. However, it appears only the abstract is available without paying for access. I was hoping to see if 1.75% was a magic number, or if exceeding 1.75% for flavor (say, 2.5%) could be used without any appreciable trade-offs.

[@NovitaListyani]

You can directly go to this paper: Rheological Dough Properties as Affected by Organic Acids and Salt, A. M. Galal, et al., 1978 which was also referred within the paper by K. WEHRLE, et al. Just adjust the number from AP flour to bread flour. The recommended standard for salt in bread is currently set, in many countries, to be only 1% of the bread weight.

[@idriselfahmy9816]

Hi novita. Can you give us explanation why sometimes sourdough bread becomes so chewy..? And how to fix this..and maybe tips for softer inside..

[@NovitaListyani]

There are many reasons for that, hydration, acidity etc., it's in our list of to-do videos.

[@idriselfahmy9816]

@@NovitaListyani thanks a lot ..👍

[@rongratdusdee8066]

Hi,Novita💓 I really love your presentation and scientific approach. I wonder what happens to a sourdough that turns the bread crumbs gelatinous or gummy after bake. I sadly get those sometimes and don’t know how to avoid it. Thank you.

[@NovitaListyani]

There can be many possibilities. The one that's relevant to sourdough is that you may have a sourdough starter that's not mature yet or is not at its peak when used, therefore resulting in a weak levain, and so the dough using this levain will not ferment properly. When baked, it becomes a dense and gummy bread. Other possibilities that are unrelated to sourdough: the bread is underbaked; there was too much moisture; it was baked at the wrong oven temperature; it wasn't left to cool for long enough after baking.

[@rongratdusdee8066]

Thank you so much for your explanation, Novita ❤️. I'll try to eliminate the possible causes one by one.

[@sourdoughjogja]

try this, let the sourdough bread cool at least for an hour before slice. When you slice it right after baking, there is still baking process inside the bread (crumbs). you can see steam (and heat of course) out from sliced bread instead

[@paulyang206]

Great video. Two questions: at around 21:40, I think it's safe to say that we should put the loaves into the oven at/around/immediately after the the second rise. Just wonder if there's any reference that can tell us more. Also, do you know if there is always a third rise? Again, any reference? Thanks in advance.

[@NovitaListyani]

I think you can conduct a simple experiment to find out exactly what happens. Make a levain with a mature sourdough starter, 1:5:5 ratio, at room temperature 27°C, observe it for 24 hrs (use timelapse mode of your mobile), tell us what you see. Our experiment showed three rises as shown in the video.

[@DARKLaWLieT]

Wow, you are so pretty ❤

[@TheBennsson]

How long can I store a jar with starter in my refrigerator without touching it? I have a starter now and I dont think I have sad hello to in like 1.5-2 month. Open it and it looks and feels good, is it okey to use?

[@NovitaListyani]

Your sourdough starter is still okay but you can't use it immediately, it's practically dormant, you need to feed them or give them a few days of backsloppings until the microorganisms are ready again, giving you that predictable rise and fall.

[@RP-we1rs]

Hi Novita, I'm visiting a friend and having trouble getting a levain started for them. I'm wondering if I created a levain using commercial yeast, would it eventually, after a few months, become pretty much indistinguishable from one started "naturally" without the addition of commercial yeast? Nathan Myhrvold says that the yeast and LAB colony is constantly changing based on the environment and feeding schedule, so it makes sense that wild yeast would move in to cohabitate with the commercial yeast. My only hesitation is that I imagine the strain that is commercial yeast was chosen because it works quickly, which could mean that it will always crowd out all the other yeast just because it reproduces at a greater speed. Anyway, I'm curious if you would have an answer for this? Thanks Love your video.

[@NovitaListyani]

If you have trouble with the leavening of a levain, it's okay to add a little bit of commercial yeast, but if you have trouble with your sourdough starter it's not a good idea to add that. Adding commercial yeast to a sourdough starter can disrupt the culture severely, because it's too dominant, you may end up losing all the benefits contributed by the wild microorganisms in the starter.

[@journeycafe1766]

Hi. Thanks for your response in the other video about sourdough. Question- Is there such thing as over fermentation? I’ve heard of 48 hour sourdough, 72 hour… one week… one month fermentation Is there such thing as overfermenting and overproofed dough? And what do you do to fix overproofed dough if you want to age the sourdough over days and weeks to restrenghten the gluten so it can keep on aging? Are longer fermentation times superior or is it like a Goldilocks equation where you start to get an inferior product if it ages too long?

[@NovitaListyani]

Not sure what you meant by over fermentation. Maybe you want to elaborate a bit on that but as we have mentioned before in our video on long fermentation, long fermentation is always better than quick fermentation. Having said that, it's still not a good idea if you extend the fermentation time way beyond the time the living bacteria in sourdough start to run out of nutrients to eat and their numbers start to drop rapidly. That is not a good thing as mentioned in this video.

[@teamjourney3413]

@@NovitaListyani Got it. Also, to elaborate at 22:25, when you mentioned to use starter at its peak maturity, did you mean a fully developed starter after about 5 days of capturing and feeding, or did you mean capturing the starter at the perfect timing when the starter rises to its highest peak? I'm assuming the first because the point of refreshing the starter (levain) is to make sure the starter hit its highest peak before adding it to the official dough correct?

[@NovitaListyani]

Not exactly like that. Maybe we can use instant yeast to illustrate a sourdough starter and levain. We expect our sourdough starter to behave like our instant yeast, it should perform in a predictable manner. So when we say that a sourdough starter is mature after 5-7 days of backslopping/refreshing, we expect to see it rise after being refreshed and drop after consuming the new nutrients, at a certain interval in a very predictable way. As explained in the video, it's best to use this mature starter when it is at the peak of its growth curve (it should be easy to tell because mature starters are predictable). Simply put, having a mature starter doesn't mean that you can use it whenever you want, it's best to use it when it peaks. Professional bakers usually refresh their sourdough starters twice a day so that any time of the day is within their growth phase. If you have a mature sourdough starter and you neglect it by not refreshing it for days, then that's like using expired instant yeast to make bread. You know what'll happen next. That's for the sourdough starter. Now, let's talk about the levain. Levain is easy to understand if you have experience with any of the well-known preferments such as poolish, biga or pâte fermentée, as a matter of fact, levain is just another form of preferment. Your sourdough starter is just like the yeast you use in making preferment for bread. So, what is the purpose of making preferment? First and foremost, it's to develop flavor and then next, for the fermentation power/gassing power. I'll leave the first point for another video :) but this video illustrates what happens once you dilute a starter into a levain, it gains more gassing power, did you see how the levain mixture burst through the cover? So, you should use your levain, again, when it's at its peak, before it's gone into the stationary phase. We cover the details and the drama of the rises and falls in the video, hope you enjoy it! Happy baking and happy holidays :)

[@journeycafe1766]

Thank you for the clarification. I’ve also been watching out pizzaolo from Italy sourdough pizza videos . Vito and other Italian pizza pros he cocreated some videos with seems like he doesn’t utilize a bulk ferment stage. He makes the dough and does some gluten development and rest for 30 minute and then shapes until pizza ball, proof at room temp until done (about 4 hour) One of his video he did let his pizza dough rest for 2 hours after doing some gluten development after making dough but that seems like the longest he lets his dough rest for before shaping. Is it because it’s pizza dough (more flatbread like) that they aren’t doing a 6-12 hour bulk ferment? But when I watch American sourdough pizza vids they usually recommend a bulk ferment until it rises x1.5 and then shape or option to put in fridge and then shape when needed. What’s the best ? Or maybe they are pros and cons? Once again thank you for your insights. I’m just trying to make sense of everything lol

[@NovitaListyani]

Hmmm, first, when it comes to bread baking, bulk fermentation starts the moment after we've finished mixing all the ingredients, even before we start kneading, so definitely there is some kind of bulk fermentation done there :) Second, pizza doughs, much like doughs for pita bread or focaccia, are indeed different from typical bread doughs. In most pizzerias, the pizza is baked in a woodfired brick oven at a temperature around 300°C-400°C, usually for 1-2 minutes, in order to get that crispy but soft cornicione, so, there's no much oven spring to be expected during baking. In line with such a baking approach, a very long bulk fermentation might not be necessary, as long the levain/poolish has developed enough flavor and/or the second fermentation (after preshaping) is long enough. You may want to watch our video on homemade pizza for more on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4OZY4V3g6uaarM

[@TechTails]

Well I have to say..a lot of this 2 to 4 to 8 or 2 becomes 4 etc was lost on me. It's a comprehensive video but I wish things were expounded on with more clarity. Did not quite understand what 2 and 4 had to do with the two generations of log had to do with the starter to be honest....felt extraneous and confusing. I always have trouble with sourdough. Some people say feed a sourdough 1 to 2 to 2. And if you can't feed...then toss it in the fridge. Is there any escape from feeding daily if you just don't wish to bake every single week when it comes to sourdough? Seems if left in the fridge under, the starter becomes inactive and despite many people saying it "can come back" it seems like they're just making a new starter if it takes multiple days to feed it. I wish there was more clarity on it...also its super hard to track when exactly a starter doubles...unless you literally GoPRO it and time-lapse. I always find I miss the doubling period. I usually feed random times because I have a work schedule that doesn't allow me to feed it the SAME TIME EVERYTIME. Seems sourdough may just not be for me. Its insanely unforgiving it seems. Very frustrated.... so last question if the yeast dies in the starter every rise and fall cycle...is that why people discard and resupply new nutrients? But how would this make a stronger starter as opposed to just a sort of preferment every time if you only keep a little bit from the original starter when feeding? Does the cellular density increase per little amount of starter used? You seem like you may know the science to help demystify this crap for me

[@maresionut-laurentiu7128]

Yes, there is a method in wich yu don't have to feed it ever single day. Like our grandmothers used to do it. Look up Sourdough scrap method

[@TechTails]

@@maresionut-laurentiu7128 that's not a method that's literally just making sourdough starter again. Micro biology disagrees

[@huypham-wy2pn]

With mayonnaise all taste the same 💀

[@qdwang-main]

Hi Novita, your videos are fantastic and I learned a lot from your channel. Do you have a discussion group in telegram or discord for fans? I would like to join.

[@NovitaListyani]

For the time being we don't have any support forum yet. Thanks for the feedback!

[@porshenn]

gosh, this is the most helpful video about sourdough bread baking I've ever seen. Thank you!