Space Engineers - Everything you need to know about Thrusters and how many you need on planets.

Hi Everyone,
In this video I will be going over everything you need to know about the different types of thrusters in space engineers. I will cover the Pro's and Con's of each thruster type and I will also cover how you can work out how many thrusters you need to land on all the different planets in the game.
Link to the ships in the video.
Atlas Mk2 - steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Space Hulk Ion Corvette - steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Thanks for watching!! If you liked this video and it was helpful then consider leaving a like and subscribing for future videos!!
1:31 - How many thrusters do I need?
6:36 - Atmospheric Thrusters
9:39 - Hydrogen Thrusters
12:41 - Ion Thrusters
16:21 - Large vs Small Thrusters
Cheers,

[@cobaltblue1975]

Thank you so much for this. I wish I had this guide years ago. My first ship had so many thrusters on it that I’m not sure if I was lifting off from the planet or pushing the planet away from me.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

No worries at all mate, glad it was helpful!! LOL sounds like it was a powerful ship though, and hey as long as it works right?

[@mediocreman2]

With physics, it's the same thing. 😅

[@GhostOfSnuffles]

Large thrusters are more fuel efficient then the equivalent in small thrusters. For example the large grid large hydro is ~6.66x times as powerful as a large grid small hydro but only consumes 6x the fuel. A large grid Ion is ~12x as powerful as the small but only consumes 10X the energy. The main reason for going with large thrusters is the fuel/energy savings.

[@bloogaming8827]

I wonder if the added weight of large size thruster will bring the effective thrust back down closer to that of the small

[@GhostOfSnuffles]

@@bloogaming8827 It takes about the same amount of material to make an equivalent of small thrusters to match the thrust of a large one. Meaning the weight should be more or less the same. There's a small amount of variation with the ion thrusters with the large ones being slightly heavier then the same amount of thrust in small ones but it's only around a couple of thousand kilos(large grid), not enough to really matter overall compared to the increased efficiency.

[@janbfiala]

Clarification - the ratio between thrust and weight does matter in outer space as well. The more thrust per kilo you have the more quickly you can change your velocity (accelerate/decelerate). Of course, you're correct that the T/W ratio is much more important on planets.

[@Dovahzhul]

I'm glad to see a video with the math behind it it's so hard to find this info as most people know by experience or guess. Thank you so much

[@TheGarageGamer86]

No worries at all mate, I'm glad it was helpful!! :)

[@mikeblake2830]

I just got into SE, and not much into the KZbin side of it, but I truly believe that you are a pinnacle of what KZbinrs should try to be, a concise no nonsense explanation, being understandable, and admitting your mistakes and acknowledging the ideas of your subs in the comments. 10/10 man I commend your great work

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Wow man thankyou so much!! I really appreciate it :). Reading comments like these really make my day!

[@vacrawlers5436]

I mean hell I commented on a vid he made 5 months ago and he responded in less than a day.

[@moxzy3213]

Theirs definitely lotta nonsense here and too much talk

[@lechking941]

if ya need any other help just bugger around the steam discussions and things a LOT of folks will know stuff as well. need a mod folks may know of some obscure but function mod, need building tips plenty of em exist. its only the games intro thats hard as once ya inside the game mechanicly you can REALLY go nuts. like the script monky community of the game

[@smackm5724]

By far the absolute best thruster video and it being newer than 4 years old helps as well

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks so much dude, really appreciate it!! 😎👌I created one a long time ago which was my first youtube video about this game, because there were no other videos around, so I decided to make a better version of that video 😊👍

[@davidalldred9392]

I have used this video as a reference so many times. It's great work.

[@stefanli1755]

Well as we say in ksp in thrust we trust

[@FreshyBerry]

Super easy to understand and follow. Great explanations!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate!! Glad it was helpful! 😊👌

[@rmpgdemon1871]

I would also say that another con for atmospheric thrusters is that they are a high energy demand, because they only work on planets, you will always be fighting gravity to go any distance with them. Ions are better provided you can get to space and up to the speed you want to.

[@Griede26]

love the interior ship design

[@WanuboiOfficiel]

i've learned so much important things, thank you

[@MrGermandeutsch]

Take a shot everytime this man says thrusters. *_That's a death sentence._* But all jokes aside - thank you so much for making this video!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

LOL yeah I butcher that word. Thanks mate 😂😎👌

[@synerlxrd7892]

Really helpful, appreciate the video

[@TheGarageGamer86]

No problems man!! 😎👌

[@jlrounds2008]

Very NICE! I am a new Player and your videos are extremely helpful thank you

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate, really appreciate it and I'm glad this video was helpful!! 😎

[@CluelessGuyAXI]

This is going into the "Favourite Videos" folder.

[@WiseOwl_1408]

Nice video

[@DrssaFerri]

Great Tutorial! Thanks a lot!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Glad it was helpful mate 😎👌

[@willangford9623]

This video is excellent. Thanks!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Glad you liked it man, thanks for the kind words! 😎✌️

[@TakenCypress369]

great video thanks for sharing

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks for watching mate! 😎

[@radicalkonrad765]

Great video!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate 😁👍

[@Asasino21]

Gave me some great ideas thanks ☺️

[@TheGarageGamer86]

No worries mate, glad it was helpful!! Thanks for watching!! :D

[@De_Wit]

Very helpfull indeed...still sticking with hydrogen tho 😁👍🏻

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate, glad it helped! Yeah I love hydrogen for interplanetary traveling!

[@Lambda420]

Being overloaded and can’t get over a mountain is a classic aviation problem. 😂 did that exact thing in dcs the other day it’s not just this game haha

[@Zombiesmoker]

Great vid!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thankyou! 😎

[@alexw5316]

This is just what I was looking for. SE just came out last May for Console so us late in the game are asking old questions 😅

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Glad it was helpful mate 😎👌. Took them a while to release it on PlayStation too haha.

[@demos113]

Very informative. :-)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks dude 😎👌

[@Waldherz]

And the conveyor topic you mentioned is why I dont get why we dont have T shaped tubes etc. It would reduce the used PCU a lot for many grids. (Yes I know, mods exist, but I dont like modded blocks)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Completely agree!! 😁

[@oxxzydoom]

I remember they mentioned it on one of their streams, they said the game would identify T and + tubes as a normal junction and do the same amount of calculations, and thats why they don't add them.

[@Waldherz]

@@oxxzydoom Well, isnt that more down to how they code the game?

[@oxxzydoom]

@@Waldherz Yeah, but I doubt they'll ever change how they code the game.

[@unfluffydave8798]

The PCU cost for a conveyor and tube are both 10 so in terms of the pcu usage number they are the same in case you are PCU limited by say, server limits or build targets. The processor usage is different though as mentioned in the video.

[@-drey]

one of the most underated videos on SE

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks man, really appreciate it! 😎👌

[@lieutenantgonads]

Thank you for actually giving us the formula

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks for leaving th kind comment, it's been one of very few lately, making me question if I should even bother with the channel any more. It is nice to know at least some people appreciate the work I put into these video's. Thankyou 🙏🙏👌

[@lieutenantgonads]

@@TheGarageGamer86 You should keep making videos as long as you enjoy it. This is a really niche game and it would be a massive shame if we lost someone that makes great videos like yours, so try to avoid burning yourself out

[@christopherramsey3381]

One of the best tutorials. Thank you!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate, really appreciate it 😎👌. Thanks for watching! 😁

[@slothlair]

Good info thanks for putting that together. I would suggest, you get a bit twitchy with the camera. When you are looking at a LCD panel or group of text remove your hands from the mouse and keyboard while you discuss it. Will keep the camera steady so people can read it without having to pause the video. ( Wasn't clear but that's what I do when I get twitchy)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate, I will keep this in mind for next time :)

[@tohellwithhandles]

@@TheGarageGamer86 If you dont mind me asking, at 6:51 there is a chart, Large atmo is listed as capable of 5.8 MN on earth and 6.5 MN on alien. Is that a mistake, since alien has greater gravity?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@tohellwithhandles Nah it's because the alien planet has a higher atmospheric density, so the thrusters are more powerful on that planet. But at the same time the gravity is stronger on aliean :).

[@tohellwithhandles]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Could you post some oficial info about that? I am having trouble beliving Keen would invest in a detail like that. You wouldnt be trolling me, right :)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@tohellwithhandles I basically teleported to each planet, put the thrusters to maximum and recorded the values so its official 😎👌.

[@solidmoon8266]

I honestly like Atmospheric and Ion Combo because there are ways to recharge passively without needing to constantly look for Ice to make Hydrogen. Yea, I still use Hydrogen, but only as an emergency backup power source with a Hydrogen Engine. My big ship uses Nuclear and Solar in space, with Wind turbines one Ive landed and parked, to get me passive power generation so I can turn off the reactors and save Uranium as needed. Hydrogen is good if you got a surplus or for when its for small crafts to be used in short bursts imo.

[@bandolin1216]

Great video. 21:00 I don't understand the Lrg to small atmo thruster you compared. If you look at the thrust you have listed, a large atmo thruster provides aprox. 6x the thrust of a small one. Therefore, 9 sml atmos should provide way more thrust than a single large one.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Indeed it does, but it uses more power 😊 Basically if you can use large thrusters to provide the same amount of thrust you need then i would go for them to use less power or PCU. Although there are definitely situations where using small thrusters works better, like in my mining ships, due to space confinements 😁

[@Gottaculat]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Also mass. This is especially apparent on the H2 thrusters, as you have to factor in all the added conveyors' mass. Small thrusters are great for certain designs, but large ones should be used whenever they can be. There is an additional benefit to consider when using small thrusters, and that that is under fire, projectile damage applies to the blocks they hit (for the most part), so it's far easier to shoot out one large thruster than it is a grid of small thrusters, and even harder if the small thrusters are spread out. There are so many variables to consider when making a build, and sometimes the min/max-ing can get out of hand. I encountered this when making my low-mass jump ships. Since jump distance is directly affected by the mass the jump drive has to move, I got super anal about mass-reduction in some of my builds, trying to squeeze out every last meter I could. While the results were impressive, the ship lacked any character, was way too spartan, and I realized sometimes form is better than function. Sometimes it's better to let a ship be less than optimal, and just go for what looks cool, or feels lived-in.

[@draco5991rep]

The Thruster Equation is basically a variation of the W=m*g equation. W is the Work or Weight of the Object in Newton (N), m is the mass in kg and g is the gravitational force in N/kg. 1 Newton is equivalent to 1 kg/m*(s^-2) [s is seconds, m is meters]. So we can replace the N in the gravitational force with (kg/m*(s^-2))/kg. After some back and forth you will come to the conclusion that g can be represented as the acceleration the gravitational field exerts on the object you are looking at. So g can be simplified to m/s^2 [keep in mind these are the actual units so m is not representing mass here, it is representing meters]. If we now want to find out the mass *m* we can move with the Work *W* our Thrusters can output we have to rearrange the equation accordingly, and that results in W/g=m. If we write down the equation with units it ends up as the equation you showed, I however find it way easier to keep g as N/kg and not as m/s^2, because this way N just cancels itself out and we are left with kg. 1 N/1(N/kg) = 1kg N cancels itself out, we are left with 1 kg = 1 kg

[@haroldgregory2717]

Do you know if the mass displayed on a cockpit will calculate the gravitational force acting on it or not I belive I've seen a video that it doesn't but I'm not sure

[@draco5991rep]

@@haroldgregory2717 unfortunately I don't know that, I would have to test this

[@daveb.4383]

I have a question what do you think about the ROCKET engines and deuterium engines in the Industrial overhaul mod? Have taken the time to try them out yet? By the way nice video and ships! And some cool information as well!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks so much mate, glad you liked the video! Appreciate the kind words 😎👌 Unfortunately I haven't really got much experience with modded engines as I always try to make the vanilla thrusters work for me, only complaint I have about the vanilla thrusters is that the (Hydrogen) models are a bit meh. And they did add new ones (Hydrogen) in the industrial update but then changed the size of the large ones so you can't retro-fit them into your ship, I was really sad about that 😔.

[@daveb.4383]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Right now I am in the middle of refining oil into Rocket fuel for the Rocket engines. According to the specifications they offer a lot more thrust and use less fuel than Hydro engines if that is the fact I'm looking forward to using them! But it is a slow process making the fuel because you have to mine oil sand then turn it into oil then process the oil into rocket fuel. But on a planet like Pertium or Dune as I like to call it, like I am on the desert planet where ice is hard to get and find an alternative engine to Hydrogen is a great idea. Of course Oil sand is only available on planets that could sustain life but the deuterium engines once I can build them have ram scoops and collect fuel in space as long as you are moving so you have the ability to basically never run out of fuel as long as you have a processing facility aboard your ship for it. The way the mod is set up deuterium can only be found in space and on asteroids.

[@ctsquad501st3]

Ok watched a vid on the conveyer junction and it showed that it does slow your computer down, but it's soo small that if you are only using them as needed then you'll be fine other than some minor frame drops and mean very minor.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I saw that video too, it was nice to see someone test the theory out in great detail, sadly it was after I posted this video ☹

[@NiLA_l0l]

If you change it in the description to: 00:00 Intro 01:31 How many thrusters do I need? 06:36 Atmospheric Thrusters 09:39 Hydrogen Thrusters 12:41 Ion Thrusters 16:21 Large vs Small Thrusters your video will actually have chapters 😉

[@Bondubras]

I'd imagine that with atmospheric thrusters, there's an altitude where their power balances with the weight of the ship, such that if your ship weighs 1.5 million kilograms, for example, then even if it's powerful enough to lift off easily, once it reaches high enough, the jets will only have enough power to maintain altitude and can't rise any higher. There should be a way to calculate how much weight an atmo engine can lift at certain altitudes, and make a chart showing how many engines would be needed to lift a given weight to a given altitude. And the tip about ion engines still being functional in atmosphere resolves an issue I was having with a wip cargo hauler I'm working on, where I wanted to just use ion and atmospheric engines without needing to fiddle with hydrogen lines. I was worried ion engines would be completely ineffective in atmosphere, and I was worried about how the power curves would intersect.

[@prome3us550]

If you're planning on a mostly space-spaceship with just occasional planetfall, you could compromise by adding just enough atmo thrust lift off plus about 10% and have the rest all ion (when loaded ofc). Once airborne, if you just keep lifting thrust at max the sub-optimal atmos should still get you to 100m/s on ascent. Once they start dropping below efficiency your speed should be able to carry you high enough that the ions kick in and take over. If not, just add more ions once you land. Not optimal but it does work. Alternatively consider making something more fun like single H2 tank "solid rocket boosters" that you strap on for the up or down trip. Could even put them on deployable hinges / rotors or arms and just set them to full burn, augmenting for lift/descent with whatever your ions can bring to the party. Personally waiting for grid AI update so i can build self-returning boosters like SpaceX lol.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I think there is a formula kicking around somewhere that you can use to figure out how high the thrusters will take you on a given planet, but it's soooo complex lol. I didn't bother to include it in this video, i doubt many people would use it haha.

[@vacrawlers5436]

I was about to ask how much more fuel the arrangement of the small ones would take then the big one. Looks like you answered that one. It also appears that there is no advantage to the large thrusters other than block count.

[@Gottaculat]

Ion and atmo thrusters kinda do need fuel, depending on the build, or your logistics. While you can technically create a charging station using solar or wind, you'll need to dock with it for quite some time to replenish the batteries on your ship, which makes you vulnerable. Let's face it, most of us are probably running nuclear setups, so our ships do need fuel; they need uranium ingots. Uranium, is, of course, rare, and fairly slow to refine. Now, ice, on the other hand, is extremely plentiful, so keeping a H2 ship fueled is pretty easy. If your strategy is to create O2/H2 at a home base/station, you'll need to dock to refuel, BUT, by switching your H2 tanks to stockpile, refueling takes mere seconds. You can also buy H2 from trade stations for dirt-cheap; you cannot buy power from trade stations, and buying uranium is VERY expensive. That all said, I mainly run H2 ships, both large and small. HOWEVER, I typically supplement them with the other thrusters. My main ship has several small ion thrusters that give just enough thrust to do fine docking maneuvers. I turn off my H2 thrusters when docking to space stations, and use the ions to finish the docking. This saves fuel, as well as lets me do very fine adjustments/movements. On my fighter, I have the same, as well as some atmo thrusters pointing downwards (upward direction of thrust). These supplemental atmo thrusters reduce H2 consumption in level flight in atmosphere by a lot, more than doubling fuel efficiency. Again, they only point down, so banking, rolls, pitching, and inverted flight still use H2. H2 is the best choice, most of the time, IMHO. Ions and atmos do have their place, though, and can sometimes suit a build better than H2, especially for compact builds. Edit: One final point I should make, or rather concede, is with the addition of railguns to the game, H2 ships are more vulnerable than ever, as a ruptured full H2 tank makes a rather spectacular explosion, and the blast now does damage to surrounding blocks. There is a way to counter this, at the time of this comment, and that's to shield your H2 tanks with large grid gyroscopes, which are apparently dense enough to stop a railgun round in its tracks. Just be warned that older builds not implementing gyro armor are very vulnerable to railguns, and that's a major downside to H2 in combat since the Warfare 2 update.

[@cultistofdarkness1661]

also another pro for hydrogen thrusters it, if you ever happen to run low on fuel, you can almost always refuel your hydrogen ship becuse you just need ice and a h2 generator(which most ships, especially the ones that run hydro thrusters, should have), while refueling a nuclear power ship is most of the time impossible becuse you won't have a refinery on every ship, not to mention actually finding uranium.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

You are absolutely right, technically Uranium is a fuel source, although it seems to last for ages if you have like 300 ingots, I mean depending of coarse on how much power your drawing from a reactor! Yeah I agree, my hydrogen ships now feel a lot less like a jack of all trade type of ship and now just kinda seem like transport ships where you should avoid all confrontation (Unless you have 3 layers of heavy armor around the entire ship!). I am building a ship at the moment that is purely Ion Thrusters for engaging enemies to try and avoid the explosions around hydrogen tanks, and it seems like Ammo is a concern now as well so i was thinking of maybe using a script to manufacture ammo as it is consumed to keep a minimal amount around and avoid large explosions haha. We will see how it goes haha.

[@Gottaculat]

@@cultistofdarkness1661 Yep. That's what I was talking about when I said ice is extremely plentiful. 👍

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah Uranium powered ships you need to be very careful with, I usually run a whole heap of batteries as a bit of a buffer in-case I run out of fuel, I suppose you could just build a whole heap of solar panels when you get stuck, but it would take ages to charge up a large ship, and might not be the best idea depending on the NPC mods you have active haha.

[@Gottaculat]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Sounds good! Will be looking forward to any video you release about it! I actually avoid most combat. I'm a jumper, addicted to jump drives. My current smuggler ship has 30 jump drives, over 60 batteries, and a large nuclear reactor to power them. I still run H2 for the acceleration and raw power. I tell you, being able to make up to a 22,000 Km jump, or 5 Km evasive hops that have no recharge delay is like crack to me. I can jump from Earth to Pertam and back again to Earth then back to Pertam AGAIN in 30 seconds. If I so choose. Thing is though, 30 jump drives devours uranium if you jump as much as I do. I get concerned if my supply drops below 1,000 ingots, lol. Jump ships are the tits. Also amazing way to lose a pursuer. You do a >20K Km blind jump, and the bastards will never find you, especially if you wait 7 minutes and jump again in another direction. Also a great way to secure your ship in multiplayer; jump way out, land inside an asteroid, and kill everything but life support. Good luck finding such a hiding place, lol.

[@WardenWolf]

More thrust is always desirable, especially considering some modded planets are 1.3G or more. You can always group thrusters to shut down if they're not needed in a given situation. Better to have way more than you need and be able to shut some down than have a ship that's a pig in atmosphere and not able to recover if it's descending at more than a snail's pace. Remember: SpaceX does suicide burns for a reason. It's far more fuel-efficient to free-fall and then engage dampeners low in the atmosphere than to run powered all the way down. Also, you NEED the Ascent Cruise Control script; it will save you so much fuel when exiting the gravity well by only running the thrusters at the level needed to maintain velocity rather than running full throttle all the time.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I agree!!! I tend to litter my ships with more thrusters than what is required, more so that they can lift cargo on and off planets 😁. Thanks man, I will check out that script! didn't even know it existed!! haha

[@WardenWolf]

@@TheGarageGamer86 I've been updating and fixing some older ships with the original authors' permission. It's amazing how swapping a couple of large atmospheric thrusters for large hydrogen instead can turn something from a deathtrap into actually fun to fly. Of course I do way more than that in my refits (typically total modernizations while remaining faithful to aesthetic), but it's always nice to be able to enjoy flying something which was downright scary before.

[@penguingamer9882]

that script does sound really helpful. however, there is an alternative that doesn't need to to mess around with scripts: the speed of light mod. It removes the speed cap, so you can take advantage of the extra speed you *should* be getting.

[@mediocreman2]

I like hydrogen for my more complex builds, but hate it for battles and routing/complexity. Sometimes I just want to hop in and go, instead of making sure I have enough ice or that I've waited 4 hours for all the tanks to fill.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah hydrogen is a pain to run all the conveyors! In this ship i discovered a non connected conveyor like a year after posting it on the workshop 😅 (O2 H2 was 90 degree the wrong way). I tend to build like 60 O2H2 Gens so it doesnt take a thousand years to fill up 🤣

[@red-merlin]

Set your hydro tanks too toggle stock pile on/off. It will fill your fuel tanks in an instant. As long as the tanks on base (assuming you have some tanks on base) are not set to stockpile on. It also insures that you aren't fueling your base off you ships gas tank. You just have to remember to toggle the ships tanks stockpile back off once you want to take off but you won't really forget because you ain't getting far without it. I also them like to toggle the base tanks so they fill up quickly while I'm gone

[@Edcaseuk1985]

Great explanation thank you. So are the hydrogen thrusters like 11x better than atmo? I saw the atmo had around 96kn power, but the hydrogen ones were 1.1Mn. Did i get that right?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Oh nah, that 96kn is for the small grid atmospheric thrusters, so you will have to look at the large grid atmospheric thruster which i think is around 359KN vs the Hydrogen thrusters 1.1MN 😊

[@theStormWeaver]

You could/should have simplified the explanation of how the thrust strength of the atmos work. They're thrust is directly proportional to the atmospheric density. Which explains both why they are weaker on Mars (low density atmo) *and* why they lose thrust as you get higher. Otherwise this was a great explanation!

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I was thinking about it, but I thought I'd go into more detail and maybe people can use these numbers to calculate their own ships 🙂. But yeah it is proportional to atmospheric density, the only issue is that you can't really see that value anywhere in the game lol

[@theStormWeaver]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Ugh, tell me about it! I really wish there was some indication for atmospheric density that was more descriptive than No, Low, or High oxygen. And you only get that if you aren't pressurized!

[@maskeradedarkstar6632]

I am not a great Pilot...but this can be helpful for me, when i build a Ship...thx.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Glad it helps out 😉👌

[@Gottaculat]

Regarding conveyors, any conveyor/block with only 1-2 connections is treated by the game as a line, and any conveyor/block with 3 or more connection points is treated as a node. Nodes use the same amount of processing be they 3, 4, 5, or 6 connections (3 and 5 would be modded blocks at the time of this comment). What this means is if you can get away with using a conveyor or block with only 2 connections, do so. If you need more than 2 connections, there is no performance benefit to using a conveyor/block with more than the required connections. So for example, if you need a 3-way T intersection, there is no performance benefit to choosing the cross industrial pipe over, say, a 6-way industrial pipe, 6-way conveyor, or a cargo container. You need 3 connections, so you need a node. Since nodes have the same performance hit, choosing the right block comes down to other considerations like mass, component cost, durability, and aesthetics, to name a few. This was all explained a while back in one of the "Devs Lost in Space" live streams. In all fairness, I believe the stream was after this video was made... I think. If I recall, it was one of the streams for SotF, if anyone wants to check it out.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I remember a guy doing a test on conveyors and it took more than anyone would ever logically build to start slowing the game down lol.

[@hennievantonder3349]

Thank you for a very detailed explanation. As I struggle with hydrogen understandings it was music to my ears to hear that we can go the route of atmo and ion thrusters only. Question though, atmo would not take me far enough up for ions to work, or am I misunderstanding this situation?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I thought about creating a ship just like what you mentioned just to further clarify this in another video 😎. I'm curious as to how this will be done myself, I think if you have an equal amount of overall thrust in MN between atmo and ion then it will work 😎. But we shall see 😁

[@hennievantonder3349]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Looking forward to that video :)

[@tackytrooper]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Considering that atmo thrusters only work for a small fraction of the distance you need to cover to space, I would say that devoting the bare minimum mass to atmos possible is the best move; the ship would have to be extremely optimized to save weight, which is why I don't usually bother with this arrangement. Once you start adding cargo every mass calculation goes out the window. If you did do it, I would err on the side of putting most/all atmo thrusters on the bottom, that way the ship can still hover, and just using ions for all other applications. It won't be fast, but it will move. Then, when you need to get to space, the amount of dead weight your weak ions have to haul is minimized.

[@lechking941]

@@TheGarageGamer86 it also helps if the ship can just YEET its self into space with atmo is deccent, but thats why im fine going pure hydro when i make ships. all types, of enviroments and shure eats ice but that stuffs gonna burn slow anyways. with the stockpiles of ice i need for my games i usally get so much ic an live on one mine trip of ice for DAYS irl.

[@DmytroBogdan]

Nice basic physics lesson 16:50 3x3 area not 9x9

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate 😁. Yeah I messed that part up, this was take 8 I think so I was like uhh bugger it ill leave it 😅

[@DmytroBogdan]

@@TheGarageGamer86 at that rate you could start posting bloopers after each video 😂

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@DmytroBogdan oh man stuff that 🤣

[@anotherthing]

@@TheGarageGamer86 Gravity is meters per second squared. It's a measure of acceleration, not velocity. Also, I'm pretty sure altitude affects hydrogen thrusters as well. There used to be a really nice thruster calculator online for Space Engineers that gave a performance graph of acceleration versus height based on your thruster configuration of your grid. Anyway, great video! You didn't get anything wrong that would crash a newbie. Although, I remember having issues with atmospheric engine vehicles and maxing out my kilowatt draw on my first mining ships when I was new to the game. That was exciting. And deadly. And costly.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@anotherthingThanks mate 😁👌. Yeah I know but there is no character in game to represent it as far as I know so I just left it out lol. I suppose I could have gone "^2" but I didn't want to make it anymore complicated than it is haha. I'm 100% sure hydrogen is the same power anywhere, it's why I love it so much 😁. You can check the thrust in the K menu at different intervals and it should always be the same. I did see a graph a while ago where it showed the different thrust levels at different heights above sea level but for the life of me I cannot find it lol it would have been great for this video and I would have linked it.

[@Man-O-Little-Tan]

I love how in math class im like dying but here im like "Mhm mhm write that down"

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah same here, I hate maths except for in this game lol

[@vanman118]

So it doesnt matter what direction theyre facing. The ones pointed upwards are used in the calculation to get it off a planet?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah that's right, the one's pointed upwards are the only one's you need to worry about when figuring out what your ship can lift. The thrusters in the other directions only really effect the performance of the ship and how fast it will turn, accelerate or stop 😎👌.

[@mohamedkhayat4843]

For the next videos you need a "obviously" counter ;D

[@TheGarageGamer86]

😂😂 You know I never noticed I say certain words so much until people here pointed it out lol

[@janedoe4586]

na atmo ion combo is the best

[@NEXUS-ALPHA-1]

I may or may not have taken your ship and filled it with interior turrets and I mean anywhere I could put one I put one

[@darkehartplays]

The whole bit about conveyors starting at about 19:30 is wrong. The routing system uses a graph technique that only has to be recalculated when a block is added or removed - that calculation is also very binary and only asks whether or not block A can reach block B and it doesn't care how it gets there after that, as well. Andrewman Gaming empirically tested it and posted his results on YT. This myth probably comes from the multitude of Minecraft mods which add pipe systems which DO work as described and also require every block to be ticked every server tick in order to move items/fluids around, whereas Space Engineers conveyors only care about the end points of the graph.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

As I mentioned in a previous comment below I have noticed a frame rate drop while moving my character around one of my ships that had 100+ conveyors in it. It wasn't until I upgraded the CPU from a Ryzen 5 2600 to a Ryzen 7 5800X that I noticed it improved quite a lot. The one thing I would have liked to have seen in that test would be what CPU he was using. I mean technically it does not drop the SIM speed, but it definitely effects the frame rate based upon the type of CPU you are using. Someone with a high end CPU might not ever notice it, but with a lower end CPU like I had before you can definitely notice it haha. Andrewman also found and mentioned the same frame rate drop, although he did have to spam a boat load of conveyors to do it, but for all we know he was running a threadripper, so it's hard to compare what effects it has against different CPU's. Maybe once I get my second system up and running I will compare the 2600 and 5800X against each other and see what happens? But yeah I think keen did do some optimisations around this as I noticed you used to see a refinery for example process every little piece of ore and the speed at which it would update the screen was waaaaaay higher than it is now, nowadays it changes every couple of seconds so maybe they did something to help the issue when they changed that. I honestly can't remember which update that was though lol. Not sure if that makes sense? 😂 PS Sorry for the novel... 😂😂

[@darkehartplays]

@@TheGarageGamer86 No worries about the novel - I like reading. :D But also it's worth noting that the conveyor pipes DO need to be updated whenever the graph changes, so they can show the right indicator light. Or in other words, they're worse than the solid block. And to be clear, it's plausible that the game *used to* do dumb things with the conveyor system, possibly even as bad as the aforementioned Minecraft mods. I wasn't around then. I can tell you that the system is way, way better than that now, though.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@darkehartplays Yeah I think they have done a lot of optimisations since then, I still have paranoia around junctions though so I try to minimise my use of them 😅😂

[@JuStaNotherOne1337]

It's good math, but you would also like to consider your stopping ability. Rather then focus on your "floating point" :)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Thanks mate, I will keep this in mind. I may do another video focusing a bit more on the performance of a ship, and maybe include gyroscopes also :)

[@Skiggles]

Thanks for the video but it would have been nice if you either showed the chart from a more orthographic view or link to a spreadsheet or something. Trying to screenshot this is not very practical.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I might be able to create something, it is hard to share something like that though and not get doxxed 😅

[@HarryL2020]

Just get the Aryx Drive System mod, epstine drives FTW! SE thrusters are unrealistically weak and very primitive propultion method.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I must admit I enjoy the challenge of making something work with the vanilla thrusters given there limitations, it's that much more satisfying when you get it all working 😎👌

[@CounterGriefZombies]

Hydrogen is great for exploration and if you are smart you can leave and enter atmospheres with little loss. I have 12 large tanks on my largegrid ship. Lost 2 percent of total fuel leaving earth and travelling to the moon. Then i lost another 7 percent in a space battle. Dont get me wrong, i flew circles around the enemy and they couldnt match my speed, but the fuel cost was high.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I really like hydrogen for transport type ships given that they are so powerful and if you build yourself a decent fuel depot they can be quite easy to fill up as well 😁

[@TheMhalpern]

I always saw hydrogen thrusters as more of a boost, and Warfare 2 reinforces that. with exploding tanks.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I'm seriously considering using shields on my hydrogen ships now lol.

[@TheMhalpern]

@@TheGarageGamer86 or just use hydrogen more conservatively for combat ships, unless they are fodder ships. Honestly I'm ok with that, it encourages specialist designs for the different environments. The ships that make sense to work well in space and atmosphere are your transports, sure you can use tail landers as deployable defense towers, but that leaves them mostly static on the planet and in a less than ideal position for conveyor access. The advantage of planets (other than the Moon) is that with wind turbines (static) power is cheap, and mining is easy to automate, and atmo thrust is cheap. you can do a lot with the plentiful basic resources, so you should have ships primarily designed around that. Especially with the speed cap, IMO the only pure hydrogen ships that make sense once you have access to all thruster types, are drop ships, fighters, and rapid response ships that don't have to go far from a base or other hydrogen supply. In space if you aren't jumping, once you get up to speed you just have to have enough thrust to course correct and make sure the game doesn't slow you down, some hydrogen is useful for maneuvering and braking, especially in combat, but your cruising can easily be handled by ion, in atmosphere, you are constantly using thrust, and scaling is harder and it's easier to take out ships, so lower cost is better.

[@-nightraider-1169]

I still prefer hydrogen as you get the best power to weight ratio compared to other thrusters.

[@TheMhalpern]

@@-nightraider-1169 that's why it good as a boost, it's good for acceleration, but you aren't accelerating constantly

[@HeroicStumpy]

5:12 you're welcome :)

[@radicalkonrad765]

Been wanting to play this game for years so I finally bought an Xbox, built my first big ship using hydrogen and realized after all the fuel lines oh my my ship had no interior space after

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah hydrogen is hard to deal with, try and use things like refineries, assemblers and cargo containers as part of the conveyor system for the fuel as well 😎👌

[@penguingamer9882]

in creative, o2/h2 generators give you basically infinite fuel as long as they're hooked up. also, hydrogen tanks are pretty bad. I recommend using cargo containers with ice hooked up to o2/h2 generators, none of those components are explosive when destroyed.

[@Spooteriffic]

Newton can GFHS... good vid though

[@TheGarageGamer86]

😂😂

[@MarCin-lk8xx]

Adjustable Thruster Multipliers mod and your ship wont look ugly with 40 thrusters

[@ZhiLawd]

For small grid atmo, the smaller one is better is it not? 9 times the thrust > 1 large

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah they are in terms of thrust but unfortunately they use alot more power, which is often the problem I run into when designing small grid mining ships and small grid welding ships 🙂

[@ZhiLawd]

@@TheGarageGamer86 ooo… no wonder my ships die fast…

[@mr.crowserk6109]

mucho calculo pero seria mas facil decir de un principio cuantos necesitas exactamente para levantar una nave básica en el planeta que mas gravedad tenga para ir sobrado en el resto. Además se puede activar la mitad de los propulsores si el planeta en el que estas no tiene tanta gravedad. Yo utilizo una nave de unas 10 toneladas y con 40 propulsores de hidrógeno me vasta para la mitad de planetas. De todas maneras el video esta bien ya que te as molestado en calcular la potencia de todos los propulsores.

[@themidnightbanshee5927]

I don't calculate, I guesstimate and if that isn't enough I add more

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I usually do that for small grid, then work out what it can lift after it's built 🤣.

[@zwenkwiel816]

I wish it could just display the TWR like in KSP, i prefer to have my computer do my math for me XD

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I agree, mathematics sucks! 😂

[@zepoxandy5602]

about the conveyors, the game doesn't care about what type of conveyor you use as long as you connect the 2 points (say cargo containers) with them the game know that they are connected to each other, imagine it like a power cable, the game only chacks for 2 things, are the 2 containers on the same grid/sub grid and are the containers connected by any means, the items are just teleported between the 2 containers, this is not satiscactory and the items/gases don't really go trough conveyors :) the only difference between the straight conveyor and the junction is that the junction has loads more polygons there for lowers the fps if you have really stupid numbers of junctions :)

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah its very interesting how the game handles conveyors, there was a guy who done a very in depth video about it the other day - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIe6m2eprZeUp80

[@GhostOfSnuffles]

Conveyors used to be brutally CPU intensive. Thankfully Keen fixed the issue and massively simplified the scripting for them. It was the same with air-tightness when it first came out.

[@kalebs6201]

Im having flashbacks to college physics

[@brianpembrook9164]

You are adding ALL thrusters... while the ship is only using the bottom ones? Did you skip a step? Or was it performed off camera?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah so when I add all the thrusters together I was referring to how much power they use, so if you had a ship that ran off Ion or Atmo thrusters then you add all of them together to figure out how much power they draw, and then you can figure out how many batteries to add. In terms of lift though I only added the bottom thrusters together to figure out how much the ship could lift 😊.

[@user-kl7op2vx8y]

6:32 - Actually - that's not correct : in evenly zero-gravitated space you will encounter several issues with thrust the only ease there is - you have not to worry about the source of the thrust - as atmospherics are not working there other 2 types are perform quite similar to vice-versa in terms of my point of concern - they might produce different amount of thrust 1 vs 1 of the same size, but that is easily sorted out by attentive player. My point here is hiding in the BALANCE between grid weight and the applied thrust - and it do not rely on any way of gravitation - it is difficult to calculate the correct proportion, but we may use this overall states easily evident : 1) thrust is TIMES greater than NEEDED to move the ship around - this notices itself as too long leaps while dampeners on, and real hard times to stop the grid while its' dampeners disabled - the pinnacle issue here is PRECISION - you almost unable to pinpoint dock, almost never make a gentle acceleration or slowdown - all actions are rough and overly forceful ! Solution is - add much more weight to the grid even artificial mass is a real option here. 2) thrust is just a bit greater not exceeding the 2:1 ratio - this are the common case - you have no precision issues as above, but there're another obstacle occurs - you will have to deal with mass floating in case of digger ships (or similar) which emptiness or the opposite fullness will lead to very big difference in their behavior - use of these are strongly recommended against the planetary scenarios, or you develop the 'tractor' for them which fall into abovementioned category with thrust split to solve docking issue (powerdowning the portion of thrusters to 'migrate' into different 'impulse-to-impact' ratio) 3) thrust is a bit below 1:1 ratio - this are the most of maneuver-precise vehicles - you will use to docking & merging & magnetizing - name yourself - the crane device is the simplest example - and it should be AT LEAST this heavy to maintain it's speed or stability to cover the one of the major game features - moving other objects while keeping them in the world and not putting in the inventory storage and repositioning anywhere later - on the planet you will definitely use wheeled version of this ship ONLY. 4) Thrust is TIMES lower than mass - actually this is a rare occasion which you will immediately solve as a major issue even in a deep (zero-g) space - because it's too heavy to be practically self-moved, but the issue here occures in interesting form : you almost cannot move the vehicle without gyroscope 'shake'-action and vice-versa : any kind of rotations may appear too slow or even ignored unless you 'kickstart' it by any thruster or a turn in different axle. Resume : throughout the gameplay everybody stumble upon these cases, and tries to solve them post factum or in the projects development stage - both ways 'kicks' your brains to work in eigher geometrics or physics or logics or a mixture of these to just continue playing joyfully - and - it is a main entertainmet of this very game, so - overclock your mind !

[@Archikos]

Why does the thumbnail ship look just like the PCA ship from AC 6?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Good question, I'm not sure LOL. I built this thing years ago haha 😎✌️

[@geekea]

It seems outdated. I have 8 small atmospheric thrusters to lift my ship on an earthlike planet: 8 x 87 900 = 703 200 N 703 200 / 9.80665 = 71 706.44 KG I should be able to lift 71t but my ship can't take off at 50t So I'm thinking this equation is probably outdated and some game update changed these values?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

It could be that you have run out of powe?,, what planet are you on?

[@geekea]

@@TheGarageGamer86 eathlike, no power issue. I have found different values on the space engineers wiki and they seem to match so I believe they have been updated since the video. It's still a great explanation though.

[@woody32854]

just compromise and get modded impulse thrusters lol

[@TD04_Trav]

The atmospheric thrusters shouldn’t work anywhere except earth considering they’re jet engines that need air lol

[@gdragonlord749]

9x9 area would be 81 blocks. You mean 3x3. You say this and then immediately say 9x9.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah i meant 3x3, Whoops 😂

[@Ofjkk]

ion thrusters use fuel though it's called uranium

[@zylechaos906]

power usage?

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I have a separate video that covers that 😎👌 kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqWreZ-encaIeJY

[@zylechaos906]

@@TheGarageGamer86 you tha man. Cot me building since I watched this. Great attention to details

[@TheGarageGamer86]

@@zylechaos906 thanks mate, really appreciate it 😎👌

[@fenrirgaming37]

Large Grid Large Thrusters cover a 3x3 area, not a 9x9 area.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah I messed up LOL

[@andrewopenside3224]

For calculating lift are you only including thrusters that counter gravity in the sum? Obviously a thruster perpendicular to the force of gravity is going to do nothing for lift and shouldnt be included in the calculation.

[@andrewopenside3224]

Sorry, first and foremost great video!

[@northeast9162]

All I heard was Newton Newton Newton

[@burrejo]

This is the running man Z isn't it

[@TheGarageGamer86]

I wish! 😂 If you are referring to the You tuber that is, also he is British and I'm and Aussie 😎✌️

[@burrejo]

@@TheGarageGamer86 you criminal! 😅 you guys sound alike.

[@domnikoli]

hydrogen tanks are also explosive, lol

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Yeah now they are, which kinda sucks 😢. The Atlas feels a bit like easy pickings in the latest update!

[@chrisroe77]

What am I missing? I created a test ship on an Earth-like planet and it took 7 small grid large thrusters to life what a single large grid small thruster could lift. That is not what the figures in your video shows.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Hmmmmmm, yeah should only need about 3 small grid large thrusters to lift what a large grid small thruster can 🤔

[@nickcalingo3309]

He's probably the kind of guy that reminds the teacher there was an assignment. Jokes aside, this is really informative, the numbers shown, and the difference between each and every little thing is very helpful. For me, it just gives me an idea since I can't do MAFS... I get dizzy anytime I look at numbers.

[@paulcopper299]

You forgot to mention another con for Ion Thrusters: they are the most expensive ones because they require the rarest material in the game to build - Platinum.

[@TheGarageGamer86]

Ahh yes, of coarse!!! That is a very good point 😉👌

[@simonheadless7898]

16:40 Showing 3 by 3 thruster and call it 9 by 9. Lmao

[@billrich9722]

Jesus Christ. If we knew, we wouldn't have come here

[@curtisnewton895]

wtf is PCU ?

[@reucat7988]

Obviously 1 Newton equals....bla bla bla...a little presumptuous

[@hustlersdomain]

bunch of bs, just get to the point