Space Marines in Pariah Nexus - BETTER or WORSE?

[@SkiSummer]

Shout it from the rooftop brothers, too many things kill T4 marine bodies, terminators are pillow fisted and gravis bodies have been points hiked to oblivion. The simple fact is when you play marines, you play tanks and dreadnoughts because they can hold objectives, and funny enough annihilate T4 marine bodies because they have 30 shots per model.

[@botpenn4672]

iron hands, white scars and salamanders watching their respective detachments burn because other chapters used them more effectively than they did

[@XealotCoils]

Imperial Fists: First time?

[@AsgardMedic]

Poor folks with one, max two characters... GW really don't want people to play with those chapters

[@stevecatpatrick8056]

All codex compliant Marines really. I feel bad for my buddy because all he has is ultramarines. Definitely better off than the ones you listed but still takes L's unnecessarily. His vanguard just took them with the change to loan op to 18 in universally.

[@guruvedra]

Scars can't even use they detachment in first place.

[@758richy]

​@@stevecatpatrick8056What changed in Vanguard that took an L? The 18" change only affects stratagems specifically, it doesn't change models with lone OP from 12 to 18". Lone OP models are still 12" and the Vanguard detachment rule isn't affected.

[@toniviskari417]

It is genuinely odd how GW just keeps hammering the Space Marines even when there not only is no evidence of them overperforming, but in most statistics they are already one of the weaker armies in the game. LIke not in a manner that is overwhelming, but working from a clear disadvantage.

[@knoxminis1211]

I of course finished up painting my Land Raider Redeemer for Salamanders earlier this week, lol

[@erickt8184]

Maybe for codex marines they could give the battleline keyword to signature units like white scar bikes, ravenguard jump pack marines, etc?

[@cadettrev762]

Infernus Marines to Firestorm/Salamanders would be nice

[@JimH.]

@@cadettrev762 They still wouldn't be taken, especially since doubling up on the immolation protocols is dead.

[@CountryCal96]

It was tough to take them before other than for fun and flavor when Flamestorm aggressors exist

[@erickt8184]

@@JimH. Poor Infernus Marines

[@tastefulavenger]

Its been mostly net nerfs since Q1 2024... arguably since codex launch with oath nerf. All because they share detachments with inherently better divergent chapters.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

Every balance slate brings more marine nerfs😮

[@scolack123]

Infernus should get battleline in firestorm

[@toastle8005]

That would make so much damn sense, they’re never gonna do it

[@benford2544]

Salamanders nerf seems very unfair. Immolation protocols for 2cp now makes no sense when sisters of battle get the same thing (cleansing flames) for 1cp. 25 points for the Redeemer also seems a lot. Where they unbalanced before?

[@stripeybag6977]

Umm I feel like most will do a bit worse honestly seeing as a lot of big things were nerfed and I don't think the compensation was enough for an army that was niche/struggling before others got so many changes or buffs.

[@jonathanellis5811]

11:11 I felt that quite a bit. I play Ultramarines in Gladius, and I finally broke down and bought a Land Raider kit. I’m not even done assembling it yet, and even though my previous list was at 1,990 points, the 25 point cost jump was enough to throw off my list. My options were to ditch a 65 point Lieutenant and just run my Bladeguard without the extra support, or toss the Redeemer for a Repulsor that’s nowhere near as good at killing things, or nearly as tough. What’s most annoying is: if I choose to go with the Repulsor, as thrilled as I am that our baseline transports for buffed, I’ll have to go out and buy another kit. And I saw how that worked out last time I bought something to solve a problem.

[@xxalsinusxx2038]

Their win rate is gonna tank. I think between how cheap Jump Pack, bikes, Impulsors and battle line are, I think there's a win at all costs play style of just trying to screen your opponent out all game and just win never firing a shot. Would it be fun or interactive for either player? Not at all, but I think some top players could make the faction work.

[@bianchin20]

IMPROVED Captains? Really?

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

It's a half nerf, not a full nerf like everything else we got.

[@caboose955]

Just played a game with marines and yeah we are cooked we need something to make us more lethal. Hitting like wet noodles on not so durable bodies really blows. We score ok but man good luck holding an objective. I scored 14 on primary and almost 30 on secondary. I just got killed off all objectives or battleshocked and hardly scored primary

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

I took my marines to a tournament 2 weeks ago. I was one of the highest scoring players, even outscoring the tournament winner, but finished way down the ladder, because none of our units do what they are supposed to.

[@VegtamTheWonderer]

The stratagem change is a major nerf for Main Codex Space Marines. The majority stratagems worth using during the game were Battle Tactics. Main Codex Space Marine win rates are going to plummet and the stratagem change is a big reason why. It's literally a bigger nerf than the points hike on the Redeemer and the Ironstorm nerf combined. The Bladeguard transport is not going to do anything. Considering the recommended terrain, you can just run them and move them faster and easier then putting them in an Impulsor or Repulsor.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Guys. Take a few minutes to write to the GW rules team. Email is on the website. If you say nothing GW will think you are happy.

[@cruelmole]

Improved captains is certainly a dtrange take. Yes they can reduce and strat now but its only by 1 and not just a freebie and you can no longer double up strats which was honestly the better half of the rule. And the redeemer is dead. 285 is absolutely ridiculous.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

No stategem double-tap and no reducing 2cp to zero - huge nerf on Anvil siege force. That shit needed fixing? 😅

[@suleimansufianov5702]

Removing battletactic doubling is a huge nerf. Especially because it was only once per batlle round. I think that was not needed. Or at least they could have remain the doubling untouched.

[@SC1ENCEP1E]

As a big fan of Bladeguard and Judicar combo i love the transport fixes

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

So you can transport your over-costed, lacklustre melee unit to their deaths more efficiently?

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...😢 Deathwatch worse 😢

[@DaveL-s7b]

As a new player, I am think Games Workshop really has no clue what they are doing

[@DaveL-s7b]

Deathwatch sounded neat and played the way I saw myself wanting to play, but now Games Workshop has really hurt Deathwatch.....

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

You may be new, but you already have it worked out.

[@jmmllr]

Fire discipline jumping out of a repulsor seems amazing

[@christopherhughes7970]

I know why this stuff got nerfed, it’s because I got into space marines and put it in my list. I’m sure whatever I put in my list now will be nerfed 6 months from now, just like all the stuff in my list 6 months ago was nerfed too. I’m sorry.

[@Powaup]

With the new vehicle movement rules the repulsor and impulsor get to pivot for 0 inches right? Also, how is Uriel Ventris Captain ability now? Is it completely wiped from his data sheets? I don’t want to overreact until I play game but right now I think I’d be much better off playing Dark Angels or Black Templars

[@SteveB182]

Their round base gives them a pivot value of 0 so you can spin those models around as much as you like because they don't gain anything from doing so.

[@arcanos9706]

They need to restrict divergent chapters from all codex detachments sans Gladius once you have your own codex. This would allow them to start balancing them properly since they’ll be less SM+

[@huffinLeeroy]

So, why not just prevent divergent chapters from using base codex outright? Then you can balance them in their own right... and sell more models. And let codex compliant chapters mix chapters to give them their own thing. I mean, lore wise the codex astartes is supposed to make the chapters work better together isn't it? Just a thought.

[@CMTechnica]

The divergent chapters aren’t even codexes. They’re supplemental rules.

[@Hardcover_Pilot]

Meantime, I'm over here theorycrafting a homebrew Primaris chapter using zero characters and now I can run my dream elite mech infantry idea (two Impulsors carrying Hellblasters with Lieutenants, two Repulsors, one with a Biologis and Aggressors, the other with a Gravis Captain and Eradicators, plus Jump Intercessors and Inceptors in reserve to drop in where I need them).

[@Chablar89]

Why would the devastating wounds change be bad for the Gladiator reaper? Can someone clarify?

[@mr.trashtastic3947]

I think it's because now certain models can get a FnP against Devs now due to the change. Meaning damage you were relying on to go through before now has a potential of not doing so.

[@JimH.]

The Reaper has non-existent AP and relies completely on dev wounds and mass saves to do anything of note. Now that it's main gun has been effectively nerfed against armies like Custodes, it's in a worse state.

[@thekrokoo]

This dataslate = HUGE nerf for SM. GW nerfs SM every dataslate - which is strange because they have like lowest winrate in this game so why still nerf them?

[@NotMyGoogleID]

wait, DA can use regular terminators and assault terminators along with deathwing terminators/knights?

[@frostedbutts4340]

Yes and we get a special Deathwing Terminator squad (pretty much the shooty ones with a mortal wound defence)

[@piscinaiv7937]

yes

[@CMTechnica]

We always have been doing that, 10th isn’t special for it. Knights are supposed to be veterans among veterans, which doesn’t make sense looking at that shit profile.

[@stephenkall9602]

Sooo i have a question regarding the new captain cp nerf.. wolf lord on thunderwolf specifically states that he can use a strat even if it has already been used. So are they gonna go in and reword that?

[@maxmagnus377]

Only if it specifically names a single strat. Otherwise no more doubling up on strats, you just get to do one that you haven't used yet for 1 less CP.

[@ShadowCoH316]

My gut reaction is worse overall, but I haven't had a chance to look through all the strategems we can use now with the change to that captain ability.

[@AnotherViewBot]

Unfortunately 1 free stratagem per turn won't do anything to help

[@ShadowCoH316]

@AnotherViewBot it can be ANY stratagem now. Instead of being free it makes it cost 1 less CP and battle tactics don't exist anymore. I'm confident there's more than a few that will change games significantly instead of just using it as a free armor of contempt every game.

[@_Morph1ne_]

@@ShadowCoH316free strat for captains used to be 0 cp and any strat. Marines were still bad then.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

@@_Morph1ne_nerfs, nerfs for the masses!

[@matthewsarson6934]

It's legitimately weird how badly the most popular faction in the game is being treated.

[@92Audun]

I really hate Space Wolves not being able to take apothecaries, because our Wolf Priests should be doubling up on the Chaplain&Apothecary role, but they aren't even a datasheet at all! Just have to use the generic Chaplain datasheet.

[@kefflertv5770]

Why play melee units in Impulsor oder Repulsor, you can´t charge when you jump out. Or did I miss something?

[@pandamarshmallow8081]

WHY didn't the repulsor EXECUTIONER's capacity go up to 7???? 😤😡🤬

[@Darkxarcher]

Im sorry guys. Its my fault. It all stems from me. You see when i decided dive into the universe and then the TT I choose UM because, lore, bluboys cool and papa smurf being the best. That was September...i peeked into the warp and the warp peaked back.

[@NRG19892456]

Can a Deathwatch army now include Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs?

[@Vortenger]

I was hoping that the balance update would finally let me get my Deathwatch off the shelf. Nope! Now I can't even run my scouts in Gladius, let alone Devastators or Tacticals. I guess they all get promotions to veteran by default...?

[@frostedbutts4340]

>I guess they all get promotions to veteran by default...? Uh yeah that's how the Deathwatch works, they recruit from other chapters Battle Brothers. Don't get me wrong DW need help bad but it fits the lore

[@Ishandria]

Just bring Armour of Contempt back to baseline, GW For Loyalists and Chaos. I would take point increases for that, but please just do it ...

[@thethrongler3070]

GW seems to have a really bad habit of double dipping with nerfs. Very odd they're so limp dicked when buffing an army, but will go whole hog with points and rules nerfs at the drop of a hat.

[@mikemcguinness92]

How about, as it seems like the divergent chapters will be getting a bunch of their own detachments, GW lock out all but the Gladius detachment from the regular spacemarine codex?

[@ca11rl77]

Worse. So much worse.

[@Acorbet86]

Much worse. Every time something remotely decent from marines pops it's head up GW nerf it in to the dust.

[@venkelos6996]

This will sound dumb, but it's just so weird, to me, that GW is ALLOWING Space Marines to fail so hard. This is the iconic faction; the face of the game. They have the most model diversity, and get the most added to them, alongside any occasional additions other groups receive. Astartes are the models GW most expects to sell, and make a profit on, so to allow them to sink so far is almost kind of nice, as a fan of other factions, but so surprising. And of course, I don't really have good fixes. Various things that they might do would just also be expected improve the Divergent Chapters, the Grey Knights, and even maybe Chaos, as even getting Primaris didn't allow the Astartes to have strictly "better" Space Marines than Chaos, in the end. I'm not really sure what could make Ultramarines better, but not Space Wolves, and wouldn't possibly clash with the statistics of Grey Knights, World Eaters, or Iron Warriors. Since Guard don't have a codex, yet, they might not deserve a video like this, but I'm still hopeful. I'm interested in what GW wants people to play? Is it just tank spam, to keep tournaments speedy, and prevent infantry placement shenanigans? I get that IFire artillery spam was uninteractive, and every update was another nerf to it, like they wanted to lump it in with Flyers, and Fortifications, but between finally probably pulling most of the teeth out of artillery, and changing how Reinforcements works, meaning you can't as easily disregard cheap infantry safety, it seems like the era of the tank has come. Even Guard units that specialize in anti-tank, but aren't Squadrons, don't really get a rule, and while a few swarm armies have found success, they reined some of these in, this update, too. This kind of gets back to a game of tanks, and mostly only Guard vehicles can really hurt other vehicles, now. Looking forward to when Guard FINALLY have other detachments, since they seem intent on stymying the diversity of lists Guard could make out of their one index option, so it would be nice to see how they officially want people to play Guard, in a supported way. I know that DEldar really did need a new detachment, but it's too bad that this BDS didn't feel like issuing one to any other faction still waiting for their book.

[@CMTechnica]

Yea, the IG index is horrible. The faction rule is atrocious, and shoehorns us into terrible lists.

[@Nadalag]

As a Space Wolf player (not meta player) the restrictions kinda suck. I mean I couldn't give a damn about tactical squads for mine are better (though they do need to drop about 5 points or so), but why do we lose apothecaries without at least getting back the chaplain option (Farewell Wolf Guard with Lieutenant and Apothecary. It was fun while it lasted.) and why do we lose devastators without Long Fangs being properly adjusted points-wise?

[@peters6345]

to be honest it's not as bad as I initially thought.. but we weren't doing so well competitively despite that got a nerfs.. baffles me

[@maxmagnus377]

You never have wanted to be bottom feeders side by side with an Elf... but seeing as they also got nerfed while at a 47% winrate, think you and Aeldari can suck side by side as friends? xD

[@peters6345]

@@maxmagnus377 haha funny enough I also have eldar 😆

[@wonderfred]

​@maxmagnus377 yall were over 60% for most of 10th ed. We've been sub 50 the entire edition. We're not the same.

[@maxmagnus377]

@@wonderfred Over 60 for the first 3 months, first balance pass brought it down to 59, then 55ish, 51, 47 and who knows what it is now. Also, can I just say that I hate this sense of "You've been OP for a while so suck it up" mentality. I want all factions to be in the ballpark.

[@JimH.]

@@maxmagnus377 While you're right in theory, Eldar have been broken on launch in every edition of 40k, no more so than in 10th where they hit over 70% (1) for a time. Bottom line, no one feels sorry for Eldar players except Eldar players. While that's not fair for them, it is what it is.

[@dabo77777]

Mr. Tactics, please get some rest.

[@markmecha3100]

well well well, gues who bought 3 dreadnoughts and 2 techmarines like 10 days ago? ME. Fuck

[@Jason-wh7in]

Codex space marines taking it on the chin with the changes sucks a lot. Could have removed the flyer interaction with the aura abilities and that would have been enough for ironstorm. Now I’m waiting for the nerfs to storm lance next. When can anvil siege and first company get some buffs?

[@NornQueenKya]

6 bladeguard with judiciar in a impulsor seems funny

[@peters6345]

sadly bladeguard isn't very good.. maybe BA detachment with +2 S and+1 A per guy would do some work

[@mr.trashtastic3947]

I'm opting for the LT for fall back,shoot and charge with lethals. I doubt it's going to go well plowing them into a DG list. But we'll see.

[@timunderbakke8756]

I’m wondering if it works for Helbrecht, a Lt, and 5 sword brethren so you don’t spend so much on the land raider. I do like the judiciar for this too though.

[@PTurbo4th]

Deathwatch was locked out of scouts from the beginning, sadly

[@sixsevenfour]

​@@timunderbakke8756Assault Ramp is still huge though.

[@stephenwitham]

Someday, Reivers will get their wish upon a star and will be good. Someday.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

I got back into 40k by buying the phobos interdiction box. Three years later all phobos stuff mostly sits idle cuz the rules just suck…😅

[@JasonM69]

Dang man, busy week!

[@themoonbass3801]

Loving the content flow but make sure you sleep Auspex

[@AlexMakesGames80]

Its shoxking to me how badly deisgned 10th has been what are the designers doing?!

[@Gedupaints]

They definitely could have just nerfed the auras in iron storm and left everything else…

[@bigkx1312]

Do yall think the redeemer is still worth running?

[@longlivetheknot4266]

Flamestorm cannons are still very strong Overwatch regardless. Save it for your big huge death ball.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Do you have a choice?

[@the_andertech]

Downgrade another unit and keep it, its still good but not nearly as good as what you can get in other armies for the same cost

[@hullbreach33]

Why cant they just make the Stormraven cost more for DA instead of nerfing it for armies where its hardly played? They are always nerfing codex space marine units because of what divergent players are doing. Why not just give separate points costs for the divergent chapters so this stuff can be tuned without making the codex chapters worse than they already are?

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Exactly. Why aren't they implementing any of the simple fixes?

[@CMTechnica]

Because that’s a horrible balance decision. Now whenever they do balance passes, they’re doubling the work because there’s 2 points profiles

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

@@CMTechnica So, they shouldn't do the job they have been paid for because it will take them too long? In the unlikely event that you are ever employed, you should definitely use that same excuse, then report back to us with the results.

[@hullbreach33]

@@CMTechnica No. its the perfect balance decision. Divergent chapters are distinct armies that share models with the compliant chapters. The ONLY way to appropriately balance the storm raven (which gets tons of play in DA armies and almost none in other armies) is to make the Storm Raven cost more ONLY for DA. The way they balance it now is stupid. Every chapter pays more for a storm raven even though its only the DA armies where it needs balancing.

[@RobJackJones]

Better?

[@AnotherViewBot]

I think we all know the real answer

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Unfortunately, no.

[@fendelphi]

A thing I would like to add, is that the Space Marines have a lot of options for Battleline units, which will be important with the Nexus rules. If you draw the rule that allows you to shoot and still do Mission Actions or the rule for Advance/Fall Back and still do Mission Actions, it gives them a lot of flexibility. Another thing is, we will probably see a points reduction of some units(eventually), now that some of the crazy combos and rules have been adjusted.

[@the_andertech]

That'll be great if our battleline was good. But all in all I think only assault intercessors are ok

[@fendelphi]

@@the_andertech I would say that SM have among the best battleline units available, if you look at them from a utility and points perspective. Intercessors, Assault Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors all have abilities revolving around objectives(one of them have sticky). The Intercessor and Heavy Intercessor weaponry have the Assault Keywords, making it easier to get around the field and contribute. Their weaponry is quite good, all considered. They are all marines, so have a minimum of T4, W2 and a 3+ save. A lot of other armies have to rely on slow(lacks assault keyword) and squishie units for battleline, which makes it harder to use them for objectives and secondaries. I am not saying it is some super amazing advantage. But it is something that a lot of armies lack.

[@crazyshak4827]

Honestly, even as a dedicated Firestorm player running Dark Krakens, I'm not hugely worried. No double tap hurts, but instead gaining more flexibility back in the captains and the Repulsor buff is also helpful for delivering Eradicators. I think there's room to adapt, but I definitely agree that GW hasn't done anything to help the disparity between codex SM and the divergent chapters.

[@JimH.]

Really? Your detachment was just gutted... But I do give you props for the positive attitude.

[@crazyshak4827]

@@JimH. That's the thing though. I don't really think it was. The double Immolation Protocols wombo-combo is gone, for sure, but that's a single interaction, and there's so much more to that detachment than that. Most of the things that negatively affect that detachment (no double strats, dev wound changes, no actions after advancing, etc) also affect our opponents. In exchange, now my captains get access to the full suite of stratagems, my transports all got better (and it's easier to move them through dense terrain now with the pivot rules). And honestly, much like the Cynosure of Eradication interaction the Necrons had in the Canoptek Court, I think it's players over-focusing on the most spectacular thing a detachment can do, as opposed to the stuff "under the hood" that really makes it strong. Firestorm dreadnoughts and Vindicators are still great. My Impulsor squadmowers are unaffected. The enhancements are still primo. I can now get a full six man unit of Eradicators with a Biologis into a Repulsor to put the fear of the Emperor into tanks. I can still get Dev Wounds for a single CP on tap when my Aggressors come pouring out of my Redeemer. Maybe I'm wrong, I could be coping. But I don't buy that this detachment is down and out. And even if it is, and I want to take my Marines to a tournament...well, I can just flip three pages in my codex, and Gladius is always there

[@JimH.]

@@crazyshak4827 I hope sincerely that I'm wrong and you're right.

[@polusx1063]

GW should make more non-character, codex compliant units. Examples: Primaris version of the Tactical Squad, but with the Ultramarines keyword so only ultramarines can use them. Give Reivers a buff, and give them the Raven Guard keyword so only they get them, Infernus marines should have the Salamanders keyword, Eradicators for imperial fists, etc.

[@matheusmoreiradeoliveira7395]

Don't remove the eradicator from my salamanders, they are all the meltas I have

[@westonbuckner1755]

only if they add them as a new unit or a new unit variant. Basic infantry shouldnt be retroactively restricted

[@cadettrev762]

Woah woah woah don’t take my Eradicators from my Salamanders

[@CountryCal96]

Yeah eradicators belong in salamanders thank you!

[@maxmagnus377]

Not sure about the choices of units here, but I do like the idea of taking certain units, buffing them a bit and then only let them (or the buffed versions?) be used by certain compliant chapters. The codex is certainly deep enough in options for it, and it would definitely make the choice to go compliant a lot more of, well, an actual choice. Coming from someone who plays both flavours of elves and sisters, I might not have the best insight here, but naturally I do play against marines a lot (mostly divergent as you'd expect). I like this idea in principle a lot. I'd like all armies and factions to have something that makes them cool and special, and currently compliant marines don't have it.

[@MountainScottsman]

the glaring lack of Blood Angel attention is telling.

[@leviacosta1134]

I hate this edition.

[@lWargasml]

The vanilla Space Marine is not and will never be top tier because GW needs to sell other armies. The Space Marine sells itself because it is ....... the Space Marine. I have thought this for years.

[@beardwierd2783]

I think people overlook that the land raider crusader has extra capacity

[@the_andertech]

No we dont, its datasheet sucks, it shoots noodles and marshmallows. No point in paying that amount of points unless you are transporting a helbrick and want to cut down on some of the cost and still be able to disembark and charge. But codex marines cant play helbrecht

[@beardwierd2783]

@@the_andertech lol literally what I use it for

[@howndy1107]

@@beardwierd2783 yeah it's good for Black Templars, even more so now than before. Because BT Repulsor went up in points and I'd rather pay 20 pts more for a transport that will allow the Helbrick to charge after disembarking. For Codex Space marines it's actually not that good, with the transport capacity changes I would rather field the Repulsor, it's like 40pts less and you don't have any unit that can charge and be such a terrible menace as sword bros, but you certainly can put some Eradicators with a biologis and wreak havoc.

[@beardwierd2783]

@@howndy1107 I do run an executioner and I’ve recently upgraded to a Spartan tank, assault ramp and 28 carry capacity and now I’ve got grimaldus following his lord into battle. It’s a bit of a sledgehammer tactic but surprisingly effective.

[@superninjab0y]

Oh yeah baby

[@David-li4uw]

Dude, you are on fire today. Get some rest!

[@XHobbiesPrime]

Oh Deathwatch can't use Scouts. Drat. That is sad. I guess.

Since 40k is dead and GW is bankrupt, it prolly doesn't matter.

[@rockmanvollnutt8037]

I always see space marines doing top8 in a lot of tournaments. Imagine if GW "helps" them with a buff...

[@IAmTheDawn]

I dont think they should have done the impulse/Land raider carrying capacity thing. SM dont need any more help. they should be forced to play around the same restrictions, same as the rest of us.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

The worst performing faction most certainly should be made worse. You are one of the greatest minds of our time.

[@the_andertech]

We play with the same restrictions if not more. They are fixing poor design choices with those changes. You should be more empathetic but it seems you hold a grudge towards SM without understanding that codex space marines is not divergent well performing factions.

[@_Morph1ne_]

It’s called anvil siege force because every other army hammers them.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Best comment on this video. You sir, have my well earned respect.

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

It’s my favourite one 😢 too bad it’s bad ig.

[@erickt8184]

Shield of the imperium, an ability that does not shield anyone or anything. XD

[@izzibizzistrizzi]

@@Paranormal-Stupiditybro this ain’t Reddit

[@Yrian96]

It is kind of stupid to have a detachment depend on standing still in a movementbased game

[@AnotherViewBot]

I hope our win rate tanks even further tbh. Then they will have to finally address the disparities between divergent and compliant marines.

[@stripeybag6977]

The Codex Astartes is un buncha of bullscheiza.

[@jimskaven5963]

Space Wolves are a one trick pony, and not happy about it. Deathwatch everyone forgets about. Blood Angels are doing okayish. Dark Angels have perhaps the worst detachment rules available (with an autoinclude Azrael, not a good thing). BT have been the only stand out chapter doing very well. So, is the problem really with the divergent chapters? I'd say the answer is not yet. And now with these rules changes, GW is going to be scrambling all over again. And probably borking up any following responses.

[@wolfgangstallionmusic5639]

@@jimskaven5963the issue is GW has SM under a microscope and standard SM suffer because they don’t want BT, BA or DA steam rolling. Easy fix DA BA and BT don’t get SM army rules and specific model. 6 armies can’t fit the same shoe, be different and be balance. It’s not possible

[@HelmandTemplar]

Thankfully I only play casually and get to use what ever I think is a lore build for my Raven Guard army. As at this point my army would be useless if I wanted to field it in a tournament. Storm Raven now awfully expensive for zero reward it brings in Vanguard. I feel this detachment should favour air support small, stealthy units at the forefront of the battle calling in air strikes to aid them when they are caught in a firefight and to help them extract would be quite realistic. Reivers are still not worth the cardboard box they are packaged in… an aesthetically nice unit with a great idea of being shock terror troops although at this point they strike about as much terror a Saturday morning TV. All in all I will be sticking to fun casual play as GW seem to be lacking the imagination and motivation to drum up some good ideas.

[@totalnizmetek]

I doubt it. That would require GW to think. BT will keep doing well and we can go get fucked.

[@BrutherBean]

Im thoroughly convinced they're never buffing reivers lol

[@Powaup]

Was hoping this would be the day. But no. The reiver LT got a pip of AP on his pistol and that was it

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

I used the kit to make my other units look awesome. Reivers will always be trash.

[@BrutherBean]

@@Paranormal-Stupidity I might just convert mine 😭

[@darthrevan4485]

I was desperately hoping they’d be a usable unit again, aesthetically my favorite units but they’re so trash that running them in a game is just worthless

[@vixsplays7170]

​@@PowaupI can't believe they still haven't given him deep strike so he can run with reivers and deep strike in.

[@mtrunkello]

Looks like gw sold enough vehicles now: "Nothing to see here boys, go and buy some lieutenants or some shit i dont care "

[@tastiGMmaster2099]

You think GW saw every non-SM player complain about SM-favoritism and decided "Ah yes I see...you want us to *nerf* Codex SM into the ground to let all non-SM factions get a time to shine! You got it! Thanks for the feedback everyone!!!"

[@JimH.]

That implies they give a damn about their player base. More likely, it's someone on the 40k "balance" team with serious butthurt against Marines.

[@IAmTheDawn]

im sorry, you're just flat out wrong.

[@TheChimpPit]

It's financially understandable for the poster boys of 40k to be bad honestly. Unless it's a 5 head play to make everyone play firestorm, get attached to Salamanders, only to bring back Vulkan at the end of 10th or early 11th?

[@truckstation527]

Shit update

[@stephenfeeney2966]

Space marines have the some of the cheapest point per wound models in the whole game, just alot of people okay them at different skill levels

[@Youschnoob649]

the nerfs often seem misplaced. Instead of nerfing fire discipline they nerfed aggressors.. instead of nerfing the darkshroud they nerfed everything else in ironstorm Weird, but overall marines still have some play … as divergent chapters

[@XealotCoils]

I mean they nerfed both aggressors and fire discipline. FD is so expensive now holy hell. And it was pretty much exclusively attached to the Biologis.

[@TheChimpPit]

You know what i'd love to see? First Company Detachment: Terminators get the 'Battle Line' keyword. Its thematic, makes sense, and would be great for arguably one of the most underplayed detachments.

[@anthonywarne9751]

Been shouting this for DWT in DA’s Inner Circle Task Force as well

[@scrubgrunt5105]

Don't forget to make that Oath of Moment ability available for twice a game because doing it only once is just meh

[@basteala525]

@@scrubgrunt5105 Honestly, it should be for the entire game. The rules for 1st are really bad as is, and supporting Vets alone is not a big deal. Or even just once a game for everyone else, and the entire game for Vets.

[@dras-pv8qv]

And one of the most underplayed SM units

[@Michaelkayslay]

To be honest 1st company absolutely sucks. You would expect it to be the best strat

[@harryt2284]

RIP Salamanders

[@marcelopaiva1585]

Sad salamder times.

[@CountryCal96]

We need more named characters, and maybe a vulkan He'stan update please

[@zorrodarkblade5166]

What we Salamanders need is our Primarch back...

[@tylonblas2581]

As a Salamanders' player, not paying for wargear really hurt us. My Flamestorm Aggressors and Redeemer just got so nerfed, guilty by association of detachment rules.

[@matjov]

@@CountryCal96 Bray'arth....

[@CuriousLumenwood]

My favourite thing is paying 600 points for 7 Gravis bodies in a giant redeemer that’ll hit like a wet noodle against anything remotely tanky because I chose the ultimate sin of liking flamethrowers

[@Sir_Prize427]

Nerf "definitely" didn't have anything to do with the 24" move here and die bubble that it created for enemy infantry.

[@CuriousLumenwood]

@@Sir_Prize427 lol my guy 600 points for a 24” anti-infantry zone is literally garbage, and it would be garbage even if SM didn’t have access to infinitely cheaper options like the Gladiator Reaper which, oh hey, also just got a points increase.

[@Sir_Prize427]

It's not 600 points though. And the reaper doesn't have anywhere close to the killing power of the flamestorm cannons. Or the ability to do it in your opponents turn.

[@nicholasd7107]

@@CuriousLumenwoodassuming you’re speaking about going against anti tank, just spam eradicatiors dude. I won against a World Eater player today and have beaten Tau before. Just be strategic with how you use your resources, and don’t be afraid to husband some until turn 3. Space Marines are the “jack of all trades, but master of none.” If you play with that general “rule” in mind you’ll be able to come out on top. Now I will admit against some armies like War Dog spam we do get stat checked, but nothing is impossible. Think outside the box!

[@CuriousLumenwood]

⁠​⁠@@Sir_Prize427 it literally is. 605 points for a captain in Gravis, 6 aggressors, and a land raider redeemer. And yes, the gladiator reaper absolutely has the anti-infantry power that this brick does, especially when you weigh it for points. The reaper is 160 compared to 605. The reaper has 12 s6 shots sustained 2 against infantry, dev wounds twin linked. It *mulches*, and it’s 3.5 times cheaper.

[@vulkansbanhammer4600]

Firestorm anything is a tough sell now. And it makes me very sad. Yes, it is playable and you can win, but it's going to be very difficult to against new GSC, sisters, and Tau. Not to mention updates imperial Knights

[@maxmagnus377]

Firestorm makes Infernus have S6 Flamers within 12". That's wounding sisters infantry on 2s. If anything that sounds VERY powerful against sisters. Especially now that they've gotten the Aeldari treatment of only being able to field quite few of their newly "elite" T3 1W models. There won't be anywhere near enough there to stand up to 3 impulsors full of flamers on each midfield objective.

[@M3RUL3Z]

@@maxmagnus377 I think you mean "once again" "elite" models. our army wasn't so miserable to collect in 9th, even though we were still prohibitively expensive. It will be interesting to see how the sisters codex plays out, though. Every list will need a respectable amount of Paragons and armor to make sure full infantry kill skew is punished

[@XealotCoils]

@@maxmagnus377 Then you remember that its AP0 on a squishy marine body.

[@IsaacRodriguez-zb7qy]

Non-divergent marines should also reroll 1s to wound with oath of moment

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

That is what everyone was asking for and what we expected.

[@drewbg333]

The captain strat nerf is huge IMO. Not being able to double AOC on terminators and a land raider which also went up in points is going to really hurt. Phobos captain being able to redeploy the vanguard spear unit that gets infiltrate from the enhancement is going to be fun thou. I think seeing as thou a lot of armies got buffed it's a pretty big nerf. Increasing the storm raven points instead of the Dark shroud is just insane.

[@aetherling9162]

Yeah changes look pretty bad considering the faction needed help more than toning down currently

[@sailorcam6347]

We need a flame tank like blood angels have or bring back the FW one.

[@travislawson3261]

I completely understand the tank shock change from a logical perspective, but as a dedicated Invictor lover, the loss of one of their standout aspects is going to hurt quite a bit.

[@ThingoftheDeep1]

The tank shock change makes the redeemer points nerf marginally more bearable for me

[@mereal250]

This. I don’t play often so I hadn’t even gotten a chance to pull it off by the time they changed it. Hurts my soul.

[@gilcongane4936]

It should have been a based on toughness or strength, whichever is higher.

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

Same. I loved tankshocking with Invictors. It was ridiculous. Gonna miss it. But totally understand the change.

[@lnspir3]

Invictors took another stealth nerf because the Phobos Captain can no longer redeploy them.

[@alexandersen7390]

I honestly feel bad for Space Marines, they seem like a cool faction but their getting the ad mech treatment now

[@timunderbakke8756]

They have a bigger model range, they’ll be fine. I’m honestly not too worried about it. But, I also have the best melee marines in the game right now because I’ve been a Templar player since before it was cool

[@Kingofdragons117]

They need to prevent divergent chapters from using the codex compliant detachments.

[@charleshowie2074]

Don't feel bad for us. 'Pain is the wine of communion with Heroes.' - 👑 👊

[@mereal250]

@@Kingofdragons117nah that would remove all the flavor for successor chapters, but they should maybe lock specific characters behind certain detachments.

[@cadettrev762]

I believe that because 10th had a huge surge of new players, and most of them went with SM, by making them weak early on, GW is encouraging new players to buy new armies. That’s also just my tinfoil hat theory and holds no ground

[@zeiphie]

As an Imperial Fist still trying to make Anvil work I feel like that shriveled up sponge-bob meme. Here's to another edition where the only fun I get is purely thematic.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

I just made a list planning to lean on captains to use the 2cp strats every turn for free - ok, that’s now gone…

[@notknightbean]

Bring back chapter tactics. It might buff the marines who get no access to other units, and would address how stale this edition feels. Literally cut and paste the named chapter tactics from 9th into tenth.

[@The_Blackshield]

Chapter Tactics and then different detachments that all work differently and favour different play styles would be great. As long as the detachments are equally good, unlike now where every codex has one or two which is easily the best and others that nobody cares about.

[@CrazypantsPlays]

Step 1: buff bolters to have that outrageously broken Necron Immortal gun profile (S5, AP-1, Sustained 2, Assault) so they stop feeling like the most elite army in the game is armed with harsh language and a shared stick Step 2. Primaris marines to T5 to match LITERALLY EVERY OTHER "lore-tough" unit, create distinctions between firstborn and Primaris Step 3. Reintroduce re-roll wounds to Oath of Moment Step 4. Lock Divergent Chapter units and characters to their own detachments Step 5: Weep at a fantasy never to be realised because GW will continue to nerf marines until every SM buys a new army, then make them OP as hell in 12th Ed to sell a million more, because they don't give a damn about balance, they just love money

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

That would actually fix marines, but that is exactly why it won't happen. Sad times.

[@PlasmaPea04]

Yeah it would fix marines because nobody would want to play against you.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

@@PlasmaPea04 If you actually played you could suggest something else that might work better. Shame...

[@PlasmaPea04]

@@Paranormal-Stupidity the nerve you have to use the "you dont even play the game" insult when you looked at someone saying that the standard marine weapon should be S5 ap-1 sustained hits 2 and assault. Primaris be toughness 5 and reroll wound to oath targets and said "yeah that will make them balanced". Like please just look at other factions sometime alright?

[@danielmulcahy9607]

As a heads up, the necron immortal gun profile you are referring to is tesla, which has AP 0

[@JimH.]

I'll say the same thing I said on yesterday's video: they wrecked Firestorm for no reason with their crusade to wreck Ironstorm and Gladius was also a casualty. And NO Auspex, the captain stratagem shenanigans is not "broadly a buff" at all. It's a nerf with a small upside.

[@zachhowe98]

I mean, for firestorm it sucks, and doubling up on strategems was a big bonus for like double AOC. So yeah, I think it's actually a nerf

[@joshuaabel6841]

I love space marines, but this is a rough season. I feel like anytime we start playing something that is remotely functional, they Nerf it...

[@marauder340]

If GW put their efforts into having unique units for chapters instead of the sheer bloat of niche generic units everyone can use, they might have an easier time. We have to share with divergent chapters and we have so many units available to all that every change just keeps causing new problems for each one they fix. I love the Black Templars but I'm an Imperial Fists fan first and at this point I know this is basically it for the codex marines until 11e rolls in. GW isn't going to do the bold move of rewriting our stuff and points changes can't solve all of it. Being able to have more of a mediocre model won't really make it good.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

That's exactly what they are doing. You notice they didn't improve anything else to give us another option? Now every is trash. And it's worse than it first appears, because they buffed the only factions we had a chance of beating before.

[@marauder340]

@@Paranormal-Stupidity It's always been a matter of making other options seem appealing by taking away what's popular and calling it balance. Sad stuff lolsob

[@aetherling9162]

What is this, like the 4th or 5th auspex tactics video in the past 24 hours?

[@SpliffingBrit]

I find it kind of amazing how much high quality content they can pump out

[@High_Kahl_Ray]

Auspex needs no sleep lol

[@Lomhow]

Archmagos Auspex Tactics requires no sleep fleshy mortal

[@sixsevenfour]

Worse. They've gone downhill from the start with the online hemming and hawwing for clicks over OG oath of moment before any of the other army rules were known, and now the focus is on bringing down 'divergent chapters' instead of buffing and adding specialized codex compliant marines to bring those chapters up. We're going to be left with mediocre SM across the board if this continues. Probably won't get as many revenue clicks for that as opposed to another 'Helbrecht and X Do What?!' video though, so...good luck SM players.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

Remember when they called it Oath of Broken? Well, now it really is broken. Just not in our favour.

[@basteala525]

Probably a massive nerf tbh. They nerfed the comp list into the ground and it's been well established that there's a massive gap between Meta Marines and every other marine list because marines are traaaash. Also love "Far less tournament wins". You know, because SM has had so many.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

At least we used to be able to beat Tyranids and admech. Now we won't even have that. I'm predicting a sub 20% win rate.

[@jakepeat690]

My theory is GW know that no matter how bad marines are, they'll still sell like hot cakes. As they're usually the starter faction, best make them sub par so players feel the need to buy a whole new army after dumping their cash into 2000 pts of marines and finding out.

[@RSBurgener]

Okay, okay; so AdMech gets new rules, but First Company Task Force gets absolutely nothing?

[@zachhowe98]

Give SM the choice to reroll hits or wounds on oath target, and dont allow divergent chapters to use core detachments if they use unique units

[@HelterSkelter199]

Firestorm is in a real rough place. Already very CP stressed before the Captain change and the ability to double Immolation Protocol once a game pretty reliably made up for the nonbo of Oath+Flamers. Not sure the Flamer Aggressor w/Captain or the Redeemer is worth the price anymore. Considering pivoting away from Salamanders and swap in Azreal and Inner Circle for my Adrax/BGV unit for the CP generation but the whole thing is feels bad man. Space Marine Steves Fist Anvil Siege list looks like it could be fun......

[@JimH.]

Yep, I love how Firestorm Aggressor/Captain/LRR is effectively dead now but Azrael stayed 105 pts...

[@HelterSkelter199]

@@JimH. I have to do the math, its not a fully fledged out idea yet but I think maybe Az+InnerCircle ≥ Adrax+BGV's or close. If so the guaranteed CP per turn will be worth the 20 points. The stress relief on CP might make the 320pt Gravis brick acceptable and I don't think Redeemers are worth 285 so your going to claw some points back going to a crusader or Repulsor.

[@veisticon91]

Captain change is not “broadly a buff” IMO

[@Klierowski]

Auspex often spits bullshit just to make movie.

[@jackfrozr6773]

With how bad the desolation squad's indirect fire is right now, I think it might be safe to drop the points to 150 and it will still be in a RU tier.

[@M3RUL3Z]

With how ugly the models are and how oppressive they were, I think they'll need more nerfs