Spec evo short : Rodents of unusual specialisation

It's pretty common for a lot of spec evo to have rats, other rodents and lagomorphs take over once the megafauna has all vanished. But how likely is this, and what other small mammals are there?
Manta sleep link : bit.ly/3BsvSp2
Patreon : / unnaturalhistorychannel

[@unnaturalhistorychannel]

Author error : At 9:34 I erroneously refer to the Thylacosmilus pictured as a marsupial, when it was a sparassodont. Both are metatherians and both groups were present in ancient South America, but are separate lineages.

[@nothing-of5yc]

What is your opinion about the Bear trio in monster hunter and do you plan on doing a video on them?

[@zionleach3001]

Can you do spec evolution videos on Metro 2033.

[@larimatolaganon4946]

White tail deer are no where near the smallest on North America. Our local costal black tails are far smaller and I believe fallow deer are even smaller.

[@unnaturalhistorychannel]

@@larimatolaganon4946 Black tails are just a subspecies of Mule deer and fallows are invasive. But in hindsight I perhaps should have talked more about invasives in that regard.

[@larimatolaganon4946]

@@unnaturalhistorychannel If black tails are a sub species of Mule deer, than you could argue mule deer are the smallest, not white tail. Disregarding invasives of course. The deer on what was formally called 'The Queen Charlette Islands,' (I am not attempting to spell their renamed First Nations name,) are super small. Part of island dwarfism. They are invasive in that they were transplanted there, but they are still decedents of North American stock.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

The idea of rodents inheriting the Earth comes from the fact that in almost every mass extinction in Earth's history, the survivors tended to be very small.

[@geoffzuo9831]

During the KPG extinction, basically every survivor was under 10 kilos, which makes enough sense. Main problem is that there are still plenty of mammals that are housecat sized or smaller that are still better equipped for becoming dominant megafauna than rodents, and its assumed they would be the ones to take over niches left open by their extinct relatives.

[@davidegaruti2582]

@@geoffzuo9831 yeah , i ofthen joke that rabbits may become one of the dominant faunas if an asteroid where to strike ... they are fast breeding burrowers living on basically every continent , they are really comparable to lystrosaurus ...

[@geoffzuo9831]

@@davidegaruti2582 The strangest and most interesting thing about lystrosaurus is that we don't really know the reason for it's extreme success while many extremely close relatives went extinct. I've been thinking that the pt mass extinction favoured those that happened to be in less affected biomes, such as the karoo, where large and specialized fauna managed to persevere through. With these conditions, lystrosaurus' gregarity, diet of hardy roots and tubers, and ability to estivate gave it an edge. I would personally compare them more to groundhogs or mole rats, but I could also see lagomorphs making it in a drier or colder environment.

[@jameskazd9951]

small generalist omnivores seem to be the most extinction proof

[@maxaltenkirch1022]

@@davidegaruti2582 I mean in After Man, you have the Rabbucks, which are basically rabbits taking the niche of deer and antelope

[@MerculiarchSyn]

“Rodents of unusual specialization? I don’t believe they exist.”

[@SamueL-td7fb]

Don't blow-blow our cover!

[@LeoTheYuty]

such a shame he didn't bring up the possibility of rodents evolving to live in the Fire Swamp

[@MrEmilable]

What about beavers?

[@MerculiarchSyn]

@@MrEmilable too young to get the reference?

[@LeoTheYuty]

@@MerculiarchSyn truly a shame, he must be a Marvel movie watcher

[@captaint.tearex9279]

Rats! Rats! We're the rats! We prey at night, we stalk at night, we're the rats! *I'm the giant rat that makes all of the rules!* Let's see what kind of trouble we can get ourselves into!

[@Fergusonhelper225]

Man, that’s a classic. Love me some nostalgia

[@maxaltenkirch1022]

You see, rodents evolving to be large is just an evolutionary adaptation to making all of the rules

[@jadegecko]

Okay, I love the grasshopper mouse, but it's hard to imagine a large predator extinction that doesn't leave the coyote, the red fox, and the housecat all laughing maniacally

[@MrDonut-mb6ms]

housecats on every continent? It’s fucking OVER

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Don't forget dogs.They already conquered Australia and New Guinea.

[@beastmaster0934]

And mustelids, and mongooses, and most viverrids.

[@davidk.565]

After Man also assumes that mammals would be basically the most dominant group left, the reptiles and birds could make some serious moves into megafauna territory too. I mean look how long Cenozoic South America was dominated by phorusracids and sebecids, and up until very recently we had quite a few megafaunal birds that died out for reasons unrelated to mammalian competition.

[@geoffzuo9831]

Well to be fair, the large herbivore niche was at all times taken by the meridiungulates, and hot wet climes generally suit big ectotherms better as a rule. Meanwhile, the phorusracids only became larger towards the miocene, when much of the continent was cooling and drying. They could do this because metatherians couldn't develop digitigradality in their forelimbs due to needing to crawl to the pouch. And then they all died out to climate change that many eutherians, both on their continent and others, survived and thrived through. In the end, only the meridiungulates, xenarthrans, and rodents (all placental species) made it close to modern day, and all three outlived the other south american endemic megafauna.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@geoffzuo9831in that case I give you pleistocene Australia. We had quite a few non mammalian large animals there.

[@geoffzuo9831]

@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 once again, metatherians in a dry and open landscape, unable to adapt to a more cursorial niche. I will admit varanus priscus and quinkana are decent examples but the only truly giant quinkana known is a fragment from the earlier, warmer, wetter pliocene, while pleistocene individuals are roughly lion-sized. I think megalania shows the same trends as well, but I could be wrong. Both crocodilians and varanids show exceptional adaptability, but they generally don't exclude mammalian competitors outside of the steamy jungles, where endothermy is a bit of a waste.

[@geoffzuo9831]

As a counterexample, komodo dragons (or related giant varanids) seem to disappear from the Asian mainland at the same time as large machairodonts and pantherines move in.

[@geoffzuo9831]

I will admit that the efficient respiratory systems of birds allows them to stay competitive in most environments, but given that the main continents they held major megafaunal niches in lacked the appropriate eutherian lineages to compete, they seem to do best as somewhat large and fast herbivores, like many modern ratites.

[@nmheath03]

Regarding the resilience of large mammals, namely ungulates and carnivorans, this is something that struck me when I started getting into the lore of the Half-Life franchise. It's consistently implied that Earth's native animals were almost entirely destroyed by the influx of alien species, but the range of environments and prey let's say a leopard will take, it's strange to me to believe that some aliens with, let's face it, entirely impractical survival strategies, would wipe them out. Even if by some chance, most other large carnivorans are extinct, I legitimately believe leopards, pumas, black bears, coyotes and jackals, foxes, etc are all still in good numbers, to say nothing of ungulates. Pigs (among the implied extinctions) will try anything at least once, and breed like crazy, and deer aren't just standing around waiting to be killed. Even if aliens make up the majority biomass, Earth's native life are still key players.

[@quinkana1]

tbf leopards are the most adaptable of the big cats, so if any big big cats survive (tbf one thing that could happen is that leopards die off bc there're no food that they can exploit/indirect competition) they'd be most likely to survive. I could see native life going extinct locally bc for animals like ungulates they can't consume alien flora, so if alien flora outcompetes native flora for whatever reason it is very likely for the entire ecosystem to be replaced by alien fauna and flora instead of it being a mixed assemblage other than some exceptions.

[@i.m.evilhomer5084]

Another thing that bothers me about this trope is that people don't consider what happens to other small, successful mammal groups. You've mentioned weasels, dik-diks, and their respective kin. However, nobody seems to give the time of day to the order Eulipotyphla (shrews, moles, hedgehogs, etc.). These creatures are highly adaptable for what are mostly bug and worm hunters. Desmans are moles that are semi-aquatic! Deinogalerix was a prehistoric gymnure, or "hairy hedgehog", that filled the small mammalian predator niche in late Miocene Italy. Then there's the ever elastic true shrews. Some members of this family are semi-aquatic, some are venomous, some echolocate, and then there are those that been observed using a process called "Dehnel’s phenomenon". This "phenomenon" has been observed in shrews living in colder habitats, since they don't hibernate, they've evolved a process that can shrink their skulls and organs to save energy during harsher periods in winter.

[@davidegaruti2582]

there would also be small primates like bush babies and tarsiers , if the objective is to go for the weird factor ... opossums and armadillos are also right there ! their range is expanding and they are extremely unique among mammals and if you go for a more "Spec" rather than "evo" project they can be satisfactory ...

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

I mean, yeah just look at how well those largish sized multituberculates and metatherians, or small non avian-Theropod and Ornithischians did after the K-Pg extinction. *OH WAIT*

[@Jwsponky]

...You had me up until 'Dehnel's phenomenon'. What be that?

[@lamotou4banana383]

Opossums are also severely underated animals in these types of scenarios. small and highly adaptable, many species are capable of consuming basically anything but Bone, Grass and Bark. They also have a simple, yet highly adaptable body plan. While I doubt they are capable of taking too many Megafauna niches, I do think they could excel as Insectivores and Small Herbivores, perhaps Bear Like niches if The Omnivorous Carnivorans die out.

[@praisesol2740]

Super accessible argument that in no way could've been condensed with any less verbiage brah

[@a_m5115]

Some rodents would definitely evolve into small to moderate size predators, however their specialized dentition would limit considerable the capabilities and wherever they coexisted with mustelids, the later would surely outcompete them in most predator niches. Musteloids surely have a great chance of evolving to occupy the larger predator niches.

[@terabytewarrior2019]

I wouldn't be so sure about their dentition being that much of a hindrance. While we typically equate the ever-growing incisor teeth of rodents as being specialized for herbivory, as seen in the video they can be employed in a variety of ways and serve as very effective killing tools. In fact, I would point to the Thylacoleonids as an example of ways that such a tooth setup could adapt to a strictly carnivorous diet. Even though their front incisors weren't continuously growing like in rodents (as far as I'm aware) and they weren't closely related to rodents either, their lack of canines and evolution alongside carnivorous mammal clades with more typical tooth arrangements like dasyuromorphs shows that rodents may not be as limited by the presence of carnivorans as might be expected.

[@Diloparker]

They would be limited by their dentition? Their incisors can literally bite through gloves. In addition studies show that muroids that specialize in carnivory, tend to have longer narrower incisors, less robust but longer skulls, a broader temporal bar, a larger coronoid process (with the exception of vermivorous taxa due to the lack of bite force necessary to their diet) and larger chevron like molar cusps. (With those that feed on soft shelled invertebrates having larger cusps than those that feed on hard shelled invertebrates) I agree that they would face competition with other carnivorans like mustelids. But to treat them as inferior to them, and that they are doomed to be nothing but herbivores, purely based on their dentition is disingenuous.

[@quinkana1]

I think it is very likely that as mustelids evolve to occupy larger predator niches we'd see the rodents also expand to occupy small predator niches due to most of the competition dying off. Possums probably would be their biggest competitors, but I think it is very likely for rodents to occupy more specialised niches. It is very plausible for rodents and lagomorphs to occupy large herbivorous niches post extinction event too, considering that they may be the most pre-adapted to a herbivorous diet post extinction (assuming that ungulates die off).

[@lordpisces5019]

@@quinkana1 Evolving to new niches doesn't require leaving the old, so mustelids would still occupy the small predator niches. In addition, foxes and cats are almost as adaptable as rodents, so most extinction events won't open that niche.

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

I believe housecats will become the big cats of the future

[@captainstroon1555]

One thing which makes rodents attractive spec evo candidates is that they are seen by many as default nondescript mammals.

[@WilliamButcher26566]

Exactly. It doesn't help that certain rodents scavenge and can live off anything.

[@sosa2mars]

Mustelids becoming the dominant apex predator in spec evo is actually a pretty common trope in itself (as it’s the most obvious and probably realistic scenario) so I can kinda get why some would want to use other mammal groups instead but yea

[@Arc-ug7dc]

Monster Hunter 6: Wet Rat™️

[@colinbaldwin313]

It's fascinating to consider that large animals can be as resilient in their way as smaller ones... or likewise, that small ones can be deceptively delicate. I suspect that the common perception of "when mass extinction, big means dead, small means survivor" is heavily influenced by the K-T extinction, and by the portrayal of mass extinctions in paleomedia. It's my understanding that the K-T extinction event resulted in the extinction of all terrestrial fauna above a certain body mass, and that many mammals were suited to survive the event because the largest Cretaceous mammal was the size of a badger. The Walking with... series also uses this notion for the Great Dying; symbolically, Diictodon is highlighted as "small and adaptable enough to sit it out." More specifically, small size is idealized because many small mammals (or pre-mammalian therapsids, in this case) dwell in burrows. Thus, the survivors of mass extinctions are often dramatically depicted as more or less hunkering down in underground shelters until the catastrophe is over. How accurate is all of this, and how might it apply to some of the hypothesized mass extinctions in spec-evo scenarios?

[@anonperson3972]

In the case of the KT extinction it was also due to diet. The surviving terrestrial warm blooded vertebrates were those that could eat seeds and insects. Small mammals and small, flying beaked dinosaurs/birds

[@colinbaldwin313]

@@anonperson3972 That makes sense. Obviously, shelter isn't everything when it comes to survival. It occurs to me that smaller animals also have lesser dietary needs, which is useful when food in general is scarce.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

smaller animals simply need less food than bigger animals that's why they're often depicted or are known to have survived mass extinctions, it's because when the going gets tough needing less food to survive and reproduce than your competition is a good thing

[@LastFirstism]

Also, the KPg extinction likely was pretty much devastating to many non-fossorial groups, so people look at fossorial groups for what would survive a similar event. Rodentia and Eulipotyphla are the two most diverse mammalian taxa with many fossorial species.

[@rainbowthedragoncat6768]

cretaceous-triassic extinction?

[@Christian64124]

Its also important to remember birds and reptiles that feed on rodents. They have a well-documented history of getting big, and having different genera that have varying dietary habits.

[@JustSomeNonsonsene]

I don’t believe they exist, proceeds to get mauled by a rodent of unusual specialisation

[@ezrafriesner8370]

Get got-killed by rat kin of unusual specialisation-kind

[@johnblackburn9084]

Nice to see one of my friends vindicated. They had done a speculative evolution that largely didn't get rid of any mammal groups. Carnivorans were still the most common predators, but now the giant mammalian predators were largely descended from foxes, small felines, weasels, and raccoons; just now achieving sizes and appearances on the level of sabertooths, amphicyonids, and bears.

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

I felt After Man did a better job in really exploring these ecosystems than The Future is Wild, the latter of which turns mammals (a highly adaptable order) into an afterthought.

[@idle_speculation]

Especially considering they wiped them out solely because fur was hard to render

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

@@idle_speculation What? Very lazy of them. In After Man, there are many species of mammals descended from rats alone!

[@Caratrox]

@@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459 It makes more sense though, Fur is easier to draw then it is to animate.

[@leppardman4779]

>short >20 minutes Not complaining at all, love your content, I just find it hillarious

[@Snargfargle]

Grasshopper mice are the wolves of the small animal world. They will take down anything their size or smaller. They even "howl" at night like wolves do.

[@brae9119]

This man is out here taunting the next Mass Extinction

[@Beowulf0510]

Never would've thought I'd hear the term "zuccing" in a semi scientific esque video

[@takenname8053]

Definitely feel like people are using rats as a because of the "generalist rodent-like" ancestors of many mammals found after the K-Pg mass extinction. I do agree that using rats as a base will be best used in a seed world. That being said what is your opinion on seed worlds? Are they better than fantasy or alien ones? Have a Happy New Year's Unnatural History Channel !

[@WildlifeWire_SciComm]

Love the shade thrown at South Korea for extirpating red foxes! It's crazy how some people there think they're ready to have tigers and leopards reintroduced.

[@rhedosaurus2251]

North Korea: Hey! How dare you wipe out an animal species...That's *OUR* job!

[@Dell-ol6hb]

@@rhedosaurus2251 ?

[@beastmaster0934]

@@rhedosaurus2251 China: Amateurs

[@blackhammer5035]

Yeah, that threw me for a loop. Gonna have to do more reading about that one.

[@JohnDoe-jh9cf]

Concept for spec evo video: biological ballistic weapons/combustion power and similar things, whether it be used for propulsion like in Alien Planet's Skewer with its methane rockets, or the pretty common hydraulically/pneumatically launched spike of something given to various creatures. Both topics are pretty interesting if probably entirely infeasible on the macro scale, and they could be linked together into a general "biological mimicry of mechanical systems" type thing.

[@adamnelson7840]

Aside from Valstrax, what comes to mind ARK's Managarmr

[@janetlapham3919]

there are quite a few extant organisms that launch projectiles from their body. of the ones i am aware of. bombardier beetles have the closest to combustion based propulsion. modifications to their moulting hormones, or to their digestive tract could give them access to projectiles made from cuticle or feces. i think the main issue is that needing to regrow projectiles for a specialized organ like that would take a lot of time and resources, with a big chance of not paying off.

[@jessehunter362]

Rice rats are one of the most common wild rats in my area, and while they aren’t specialized for larger fish eating, they eat a pretty wide lot of aquatic invertebrates, and small vertebrates fairly frequently. Still second fiddle and prey to otters. Beavers are pretty big and populous herbivorous rodents, and rodent’s sheer population mass mean they’re among the most important animals in terms of ecosystem dynamics.

[@jessehunter362]

A bit of a problem with the western hemisphere rodent dominance issue- not only are there a couple smaller ungulates, such as peccary and the sheep, we have so many wild introduced antelopes. Feral goats and pigs, a decent number of feral donkeys, horses and camels, not to mention all of the exotic ungulates kept in ranches, prone to escape even in the living day- some as small as the dwarf gazelles. I can’t imagine rodents being much larger than they were over the Pleistocene, which is quite large, but maybe not the size aspired to by most spec works.

[@beastmaster0934]

@@jessehunter362 In my spec evo project, much of the herbivore biomass of North America are descended from these very animals.

[@petersmythe6462]

Beavers be like: "see that dry land over there?" "Yes." "I don't want to."

[@violetlight1548]

There's another place in the Americas where lagomorphs rule. On some Arctic islands, the arctic hares run in herds and reach respectfully large sizes. There, *they* are the main prey item for arctic wolves, not caribou.

[@johnnysheetz4107]

The spec evo videos are my favorite by far, you have areal talent for biology!

[@naturegnatiggy]

I’m so glad you’ve covered this topic. My very first ever attempt at future spec was a cougar-like Mustela descendant, as even teenage-me knew the power of mustelids. Love your stuff!

[@Shnarfbird]

Now that you mention it, a video on the concept of a seed-world would be very interesting!

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Now I want to see more speculative evolution that features GIANT WEASELS.

[@seiyn6888]

Calm down Satan, modern day mustellids are already nighmare fuel.

[@giirator]

The Pamthrets from After man?

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

@@giirator MORE!

[@rylanbrewer3320]

The snow stalker from future is wild

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

@@rylanbrewer3320 MORE!!

[@GhazMazMSM]

Porcupines could be the first to reach larger sizes due to their predator defenses.

[@zacharystoddard6826]

Honestly, you should start your own speculative evolution project

[@CB-eo6xo]

I think one of the best spec evo projects that focuses heavily on rodents is called Hamster's Paradise. A seed world based project where the only native vertebrate on a terraformed planet is the Chinese Dwarf Hamster (the only other life forms are a selection of limited invertebrates and plants), making it the sole ruler of that planet as it evolved into a while variety of species over millions of years, taking almost every known niche that would otherwise belong to every major clade in the Amniotes (the invertebrates take the niches that would belong to insects, arachnids, fishes, and even amphibians).

[@formorian5]

Ooh, I'm very interest in this. Ever since I learned about Serina, I've been curious about similar setups with other species.

[@idle_speculation]

I feel like a lot of its content is just “X but hamster”. Its sophont species being an almost comically violent Warhammer 40k race isn’t much help either.

[@beastmaster0934]

@@idle_speculation And the new sophonts are literally just wolves with rodent teeth.

[@dalekrenegade2596]

​@@idle_speculation WAAAUUUUGGH!!!

[@teawrecks1243]

The most interesting clade there are the Daggoths, they look like naked mole rats crossed with star nose moles that walk around on their elongated fingers and the new species lately look almost like aliens. They don't even look like mammals anymore.

[@QtipYT]

You keep tricking me into watching non-monster hunter related videos and I think I like it. The way you structure your scripts is super engaging. There's no wasted sentences and every point leads into a new idea seamlessly. It keeps me listening with my full attention where other channels similar to yours would have me using them as background noise.

[@SlothSkeleton]

Everyone knows that the ultimate lifeform is crab.

[@guairescp6847]

Spec Evo Shorts are my favorite videos of the channel, i hope you someday cover the video of herbivores swiching to carnivorous lifestyle and viceversa, a common trope with a lot to talk about.

[@kaylahbkitty9691]

I can see that 🤔

[@GallowglassVT]

It also speaks to an unfortunate trope in the spec evo community: pessimism on the future of life on Earth. Like, extinctions are going to happen, but acting as if humanity is dead-set on destruction never sat right with me for multiple reasons, but on top of that, it feels like it's effectively saying we shouldn't even bother trying to preserve endangered species or redress some of the damage the 100 or so people directly responsible for climate collapse have caused (Utah Phillips comes to mind). It's partially why I changed my spec evo setting to a seed planet; listening to all that pessimism wasn’t helping.

[@reubencaldwell8494]

Rodents are sort of a jack of all trades group, they hold many niches but are masters of none. (With a few exceptions like Beavers.)

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

As iconic as Dixons ideas were, a lot of them seem kinda shortsighted in retrospect. A lot of incredibly successful mammal groups getting replaced by other things, only to somehow still have incredibly esoteric remnant species lingering around. I mean, you're telling me that the only living cat is a weird brachiating one, while martens and rats replaced most of the niches they actually hold? Or that antelopes are specifically rhinos now, while rabbits and insectivore-creatures supplant their more historically cohesive niches? And that's without even getting into Man after Man or the New Dinosaur...

[@idle_speculation]

Granted, he had very little involvement in the production of Man After Man, which was mostly forced on him by his publishers.

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

I hope you consider doing more speculative evolution trope videos they really sound neat. As for the trop itself I think in any post human time period there would be a return to more provincialism, with the New World in particular seeing many strange large rodents. As for the old world outside of Australia it seems small carnivores and ungulates would radiate instead

[@purplehaze2358]

This video makes me very happy to watch because there are certified cuties on screen at nearly all times.

[@attichen4749]

I find it absolutely bizarre that you didn't mention meteors or other major extinction events like the great dying. When talking about the complete whipping of mega fauna it feels like that should be the go to for a conversation like this. No, and I mean literally none of the non-avian dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and all the marine reptiles survived the kpg-impact. Basically nothing survived the great dying. Is there a specific reason you didn't mention this?

[@unnaturalhistorychannel]

Most megafaunal whippings are often vague, but typically not meteor-based in spec projects I've seen. That said, the Kpg was still somewhat on my mind as I do think it helps fuel this trope. The popular image in media of rats / rat-like animals among the bones of extinct non-avian dinosaurs is one thing that leads many to think rodents are the only animals capable of tanking an extinction event. Re: the great dying...molerats may have a shot, but that's a scenario I think may be too extreme for most other mammals.

[@geoffzuo9831]

@@unnaturalhistorychannel The great dying feels like its more of a luck thing... I mean nobody really has a solid answer to why lystrosaurus became a disaster taxon but so many close relatives with similar niches died out. It seems like species just had to roll a dice to see how badly their environment would be affected. Anything living near the traps are dead straight up, while a place analogous to the karoo basin could see several genera of mid-sized generalists pull through. I mean moschorhinus, a leopard to lion-sized therocephalian managed to get through the worst mass extinction there's ever been, while other similar animals just kinda died because wrong place wrong time.

[@theahamkara2374]

A good spec evo short could be dinosaurs and large mammals coexisting.

[@Cyborgianoid]

happy holidays my man and a 1 month break is nothing compared to the huge ammount of content you produced rest well king

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

i have a hard time believing that an extinction event would kill the housecats. Those guys are resilient and also we brought them everywhere

[@g1sunstreaker584]

Devout watcher here! Enjoy your break and Happy New Year. Looking forward to any and all content you create!

[@sawyerleeart]

The spec evo shorts are the highlight of my day! Great vid man

[@Stroggoii]

We basically need Mao levels of absurdity sustained inter-generationally, across continents and still housecats are more likely to come on top.

[@t-r-e-x452]

my idea for a spec-evo short: Dixon's other spec-evo book, New Dinosaurs/What-if the asteroid missed?

[@TheGabrielbowater]

That image in the thumbnail unlocked a memory of being in the highschool library in the late 90s

[@TheGlenn8]

If rodents evolved into larger animals the questions is whether they'd stay rodents for long.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Rodents of unusual specialization? I highly doubt it. Tyrannosaurus Rodent:

[@aquamane1582]

That sleep mask transition was too good I had to drop an instant like

[@dichotomusprime6646]

*slowly raises hand* I really liked the breath attack video... Tbh there hasn't been one of the spec evo shorts I DIDN'T like.

[@PurplePartyParasaur]

Agreed, I saw nothing wrong with that video, just presentation of evidence for an explanation as always

[@rhedosaurus2251]

My only problem was that he didn't have Godzilla and his trademark death ray in it.

[@bebejemzy1090]

I feel like rodents could possibly fill the role of mustelids or small carnivores, but it’s pretty unlikely that there will be any big cat sized carnivorous rodents, as cool as that would be.

[@GallowglassVT]

This is more or less how I approach things on my seed planet setting. The modern carnivorans are still very much in evidence with certain mustelids starting to make their own play, similar to how early true carnivores did when creodonts and mesonychids were still around, and rat descendants are doing something similar, albeit as more generalistic creatures, filling the niche of something like a fox which are more like dholes in my setting.

[@beastmaster0934]

That’s how I’ve done it. While mustelids, felids, canids, mongooses, hyenas, viverrids, and even a few ursids (descendants of the American black bear) fill the role of large carnivores. Rodents on the mainland, and Australia, have filled niches filled by the likes of foxes, wild cats, weasels, mongooses, and other small micropredators. Although they do become large apex predators on small islands, such as Mauritius.

[@xemiii]

It'd be neat to see you talk about some of the animals from tales of kaimere. I'm aware that the videos cover much of the ecology already, but it'd be neat regardless

[@Toiletdeer]

On the topic of mammals being adaptable to temperature, I really like how hyenas get fluffy when temperatures are low (as in when being kept in zoos in colder climates), because of ice age range reasons. This is not meant as a scientific comment I just think it looks cute. That being said If anyone knows any spec evo things that have snowy climate hyenas (as in a sort of wolf or wolverine thing) I would be very grateful if someone would show me some. (noone has to tho fyi I just like it)

[@vonnegutfrey8714]

It would be very cool if you checked out the game Rain World's ecology. It is programed in such a way that all the creatures in it hunt, mate, search for food, and avoid predators. So considering it has a some what functioning ecosystem built in I would love to here your thoughts.

[@idle_speculation]

Successful groups don’t have to descend from generalist, unspecialized forms like rodents. Xenarthrans, The mammal group containing sloths, anteaters, and armadillos, were and are incredibly successful, even being one of the few native South American clades to not only persist, but move into North America. It may surprise you, then, that they likely descended from a specialist burrower.

[@zachlaabs5257]

I miss my pet rats they were so chill

[@kaylahbkitty9691]

Same smart as well

[@idle_speculation]

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if the major groups of mammals we have today persist until a major mass extinction in the far future. It’s a similar phenomenon to what we see in dinosaurs. While there were some shifts in clades’ diversity, such as the spread of large ornithopods, and some exceptions, such as the absence of sauropods in North America for much of the Cretaceous, the major groups were mostly stable up until the K/Pg

[@SwordAndWaistcoat]

I loved the breath attacks video. If you want video suggestions I be interested to see you talk about the spec evo of fantasy creatures like dragons, giants, harpies, etc. Like what's reasonably possible for these creatures to be like and what are real world parallels that might tell us something of their behaviour? Also I'd be interested in spec evo of humanoids. Like how different could a spec evo version of a fantasy race be given what we know about other types of human and other primates? How different could they reasonably be from humans in terms of physical characteristics? Also the spec evo of planet of the apes would be interesting. Especially given the new movie coming out.

[@hsdinoman2267]

really like when you do Spec evo videos '

[@matteolucarelli4615]

Thanks for a year of excellent content (the evolution of monsters and maps is probably my favourite video on the channel) and wishing for a happy new one! As for a spec evo subject, would "return to water" by various animals be something of a trope valid enough to be explored?

[@fishingwithkirby3989]

OH SHIT A RAT!

[@ezrafriesner8370]

You can’t see it but I couldn’t help but do the dance by reading that

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

Great job as allways.

[@bnwstudios9040]

Like your video on the topic regarding horns, I'd like to see a video on sand swimmers. There's quite a bit of creatures in media capable of swimming through sand but I'm generally curious if it's possible to even do such a thing, AND also some of your ideas on what creatures could swim through the sandy dunes for a spec Evo project or a creature design project

[@BaronSterling]

Why was the breath attack video hated?

[@dtayvionwilliams7414]

I'd love to see a video about leviathans or sea monsters. They are an incredibly common sight in spec evo, and media in general. Monster Hunter even has an entire class of monster dedicated to it, and given the previous existence of giant marine reptiles, there's probably lots to be said about how it happened originally and how or if it could happen again.

[@scorpiopede]

Another great spec evo topic, and one with a lot of nuance to it as well. What are other notable spec evo topics you want to cover? Any specific families or tropes seen in various spec evo topics?

[@tompotter8703]

That point at the end is pretty interesting. Many urban animals stay because of the abundance of stored/wasted food, which in turn attracts predators, like Peregrine falcons to pigeons. But without a steady supply of food, cities might be basically deserts until foliage is able to take over, so pigeons, rats and other animals (including the ones that eat them) might go locally extinct, experience massive population drops or abandon former settlements to survive (which could very well depend on the surrounding area, so good luck Las Vegas). If they do return, it won’t be in as much a high number as before, especially if something else takes over before they can.

[@unnaturalhistorychannel]

IIRC there was a paper that found diet shifts in London peregrines in lockdown, from feral doves to invasive parakeets and starlings due to the former not being as common without human support.

[@idle_speculation]

Gulls are also very successful in coastal cities, but they’d likely also suffer once they run out of trash

[@prasetyodwikuncorojati2434]

Maybe thats depends on the city. City that have plenty of park or located near forest will still can give food toward its wildlife, although their numbers will decreasing too from the competition from animal that not truly depends on human garbage and loss of human's scrap too. Sewer rats and gull will suffer while squirrel and duck still can thrive well

[@rylanbrewer3320]

I think the documentary life after people brought that up once

[@lemonlordminecraft]

ngl, I use spec evo breakdown videos to learn regular evo. It's got all the bits I like about zoology and the like

[@fcomolineiro7596]

Sometimes I wonder, if every single elephant was transported to be the only mammal in the world what would happen ?

[@TroyTheCatFish]

Fantastic Video as always!! :) 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 ❤️💖❤️💖

[@lispy5174]

holy shit he really is starting to pronounce basu gasu bakuhatsu bakumatsu with japanese phonemes this is adaptation in action 💅

[@cborg4374]

spec evo where the little guys come out on top

[@Appalachiosaurus22]

I think it's completely understandable why rodents taking over the world is such an attractive trope for SpecEvo stories. Most Not-So-Distant-Future SpecEvo is set after a major mass extinction and those are usually followed by the meek inheriting the empty space left by the mighty, and what is more meek in the public consciousness than a mouse?

[@ax3l0lrat3r]

goddammit the sponsor read got me yet again, even though by now i should see it coming

[@masonabbey6353]

I feel tropey now as i did the rodents taking over after a catastrophe extinction event for a spec evo art project in college.

[@Bunny16O6]

Amazing video as always uhc Also will you make a video covering namielle

[@GGchannel1025]

I think a really interesting spec-evo short would be a thorough look at sapience in non-avian dinosaurs (or non hominids in general.)Though probably unlikely I think a hypothetical dinosauroid candidate could be the megaraptorids. Since they had much longer arms then other theropods I imagine one could learn how to beat things to death with a large rock (depending on brain size). They also lacked wing feathers that would get in the way of their hands as is the case with dromaeosaurs. Though probably lacking the brain capacity, Iguanodons still have that opposable pinky. It’s fun to think about all the potential candidates.

[@geoffzuo9831]

I do remember seeing hodarinundu make an illustration of a giant miocene argentinian porcupine that apparently showed evidence of piscivorous habits. I mean South America was kinda just great for the rodents, as derived ungulates and basically every other placental were missing for the better part of the cenozoic.

[@floraphore]

Spec evo short on the impact of flora adaptation to climate change/ecological disaster? A lot of spec evo I've engaged with focuses on the fauna aspect, so it would be interesting to delve into the different kinds of evolutionary adaptations that flora have taken in response to their environment, including the fauna. I don't know if that's outside your wheelhouse, though. 👍🏼

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Tool use in spec evo would be really good. Both in the fashioning sticks forms often seen in nature, and in the use of abandoned human artefacts.

[@ericloskamp2110]

Sad to see your videos will not be coming out until February, but looking forward to seeing the new content! Unrelated to this topic, I’ve thought about it a lot and have a proposed phylogenetic tree for the life of monster Hunter based off our world. From LUCA, we have the main divide in animalia is between invertebrates and vertebrates. Within the invertebrates, the groups branch out similarly to how they do in our world, with mollusks including cephalopods such as Narcarcus and then the arthropods containing the carapacians, temnescerins, neopterans, and arachnids. With the vertebrates, there is an immediate branching between the typical tetrapodal vertebrates and hexapodal elder dragons (placing them here since other groups seem to have specialized epidermal abilities as well, such as the ice armors of Zamtrios and Gos Harag, Barroth and Agnaktor’s armors, Urragon’s tar-like substance, and Garangolm’s sap- maybe this is a trait that is shared amongst the vertebrates) The tetrapods then split similarly to our world, 1) fish- including ceadeus 2) amphibians 3) amniotes- containing the fanged beasts and reptiles The fanged beasts branch similarly to our world (rodents, langamorphs, carnivora, Proboscidea, promascus, even/odd toed ungulates, cetaceans). Humans and Feylynes are also here in addition to Kirin In the reptiles, the leviathans branch off first. Shortly after, herbivorous reptiles then branch off, with absceros and aptonoth being more closely related than slagtoth and larrinoth. From here, we then get to the wyrens and allies. The wyrens have three main divisions: four legged, voulant, and bipedal. The four legged wyrens include all fanged wyrens and the terrestrial snake wyrens, with a more reptilian-like subdivision (great Jagras, great gyros, narjarala) and more mammalian like subdivision (zynogure, lunagaron, odogeron). The bipedal group consists of the raptorial bird wyrens, brute wyrens, Gargua, and birds. This group is similar in respect to the coelurosaurs of our world The voulant wyrens start off as wingdrake like animals and his the wing drakes branch off first. From here, some of these primitive wyrens then split between terrestrial/aerial and aquatic lives. The aquatic variants end up becoming the piscine wyrens, and the terrestrial variants end up becoming the flying wyrens, voulant bird wyrens, and voulant snake wyrens (most of these species have very similar wing structures, thus it makes more sense that they all would evolve from a single common ancestor or instead of Flight evolving multiple times in multiple families).

[@ericloskamp2110]

To add: - Ku Lu and Tsi Si Ya Ku are in the bipedal group with the rest of the raptorial bird wyrens -Malfestio is likely the bipedal group closely related to Gargua, but may be more bass given its wing claws - plesioth is the most basal of the piscine wyrens, with cephalos and other sand swimmers diverging from them. Jyuratodus and similar lungfish-like piscine wyrens branch off into their own group from cephalos and the sand swimmers - the terrestrial/aerial group diverges into one group, consisting of voulant bird/snake wyrens in addition to the cave wyrens. Gravios is the next branch off, with then wyren Rex giving rise to the rest of the flying wyrens

[@atlander4204]

One option for super-rodents might be to take it off Earth: a poorly maintained spaceship with a rat problem crashes on an earth-like planet and they start outcompeting the local fauna (like on so many IRL islands), then let it cook for a few billion years.

[@DeeplyAnnoyed-Dragon]

The idea of Rodents inheriting the Earth is, interesting yes, but I agree its rather unlikely- As said, smaller mammals from different taxon; Smaller ungulates, mustelids etc. Are far more likely to ever become megafauna, atleast compared to Rodents. Some like Capybara, Beavers, Porcupines and maybe Coypu and Nutria, have more of a chance than rats. So it’s bizarre to me that Dougal Dixon decided for the Falanx to be a decedent of rats, rather than any carnivorous mustelid or even some kind of larger rodent-

[@liquidink2413]

I enjoy all these videos very much; I liked the breath-attack one too

[@theawesomestuff2408]

I will now be using the term "fungulates".

[@jennyfeare1702]

Land cephalopods could make for another fun/good spec evo short, along with dinosauroids and maybe also animal uplifts like corvids, cephalopods, cetaceans, elephants, etc.!

[@Edgee_yy]

Two days late but there's just something about UHC that has me crack open this man's videos one day and take a listen on break down of animals. Real and not.

[@mathieuleader8601]

Given how Mickey Mouse is now in the public domain I hope to see Mickey redesigned in these speculative evolutions that are on display in this video

[@mudshrooze]

Bro. My last year got so insanely overwhelming and crazy and not in the goood ways. I've missed like 13 months of your videos. I have so much to catch up on. Which is good. I'm just sorry I'm so behind

[@chrisgaming9567]

The point about rodents never getting a chance makes me wonder, what animals would and wouldn't survive if, say, a second Chicxulub impact happened? Could be a good idea for a video.

[@daniellincoln3744]

I find South American rodents to be so fascinating. Capybaras, maras, guinea pigs?! Amazing!

[@lorddevilfish5868]

Could you do a video on spec evo crocodilians? They're not as popular but I think there is a lot that can be done with the crocodilians such as postosuchian/sebecid terestral crocodiles or more aquatic crocodiles.

[@KingKosmos-gj4py]

Can the next spec-evo short be about giant animals because I am working on a monster hunter inspired DND world full of them

[@reptilemark7346]

Im definitely getting that mantis brain fryer 👍😵‍💫🧠

[@snoutysnouterson]

I don't need a sleep mask, as I have eyelids.