Species Spotlight: Nepenthes thorelii

Our next video is another Indochinese spotlight, on one of the most iconic but also enigmatic species in the group: the one that gave the group the name "thorelii complex."
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[@TheMortometer]

Always love the knowledge you share.

[@miker4430]

Very cool !!

[@overlord2004]

Nepenthes Thorelii has some relevance to Nepenthes Kampotiana with same living environment. Directly bright sunlight will change a pitcher into bright red color with big size and sturdy High humidity will make them produce round and squat pitcher like Kampot Francois Mey used to misunderstand between Kampotiana and Thorelii bc Kampot also produce round and squat pitcher like Thorelii

[@carltoncarnivores]

Pitcher structure is not the primary let alone sole defining factor between most species in the Indochinese group. There's a reason I stress leaf shape, indumentum, etc. in these videos as well because those are more stable and critical traits. However as an average kampotiana does not produce the same level of globose structure as thorelii, variant populations considered or not. Species names also are never capitalized, only higher taxonomic ranks.

[@davideickhoff2954]

Thanks. Interesting video. Any thoughts on N. thorelii 'D' from EP? Never seen the lowers, but thin thin uppers and a male (of course).

[@carltoncarnivores]

Nothing EP has is thorelii. One of my biggest peeves with them, they have all of these various hybrids with Indochinese things that are a mess of everything BUT thorelii, but can't bother setting the right precedent and properly relabeling what they made now that the true thorelii is in cultivation. But then, argue they have credibility enough to describe new species with fewer differences from already extant taxa than thorelii has from its relatives... If what I'm reading is correct and "D" is what they used to make the Red Dragon grex, it's bokorensis, or a bokorensis x kampotiana hybrid (I consider the former because of how strongly the thick peristome and domed lid come through in its crosses, traits not really seen in kampotiana).

[@davideickhoff2954]

@@carltoncarnivores Well you likely confirmed my suspicions that it is NOT thorelli. I never saw the lower pitchers as I purchased it as a rooted cutting and I always thought the uppers looked more like bokorensis. It is a monster vine, nonetheless, and a female. And regarding the bokorensis x kampotiana hybrids, do you know if the EP "D" is a naturally collected hybrid or did they cross it themselves? Your observations make good sense to me, and I guess, I'll scratch this one off as thorelii and add it to my pyrophytic Nepenthes wants list along with chang, holdenii and kerrii. Would you have any of these for sale?

[@carltoncarnivores]

I don't personally think D is a hybrid, as explained above. And according to Francois Mey, hybrids are relatively rare between Indochinese species in the wild, any of the plants EP have that might be hybrids are more likely to be of artificial origin. And I'm not selling any Indochinese species currently; holdenii is not a species I own either as the one cutting I had failed to root.

[@davideickhoff2954]

@@carltoncarnivores I also respect Francis Mey observations. Thanks!

[@alex-soos]

Do lowii

[@carltoncarnivores]

It's going to be a long time before I have a mature enough lowii to be worth doing a video on. They're immensely slow and hate my summers.

[@RookiePresent]

You mention they tend to grow in a burst and flower and then die back. If you have seed grown plants, do they only start to follow that pattern after a year or two of growth and becoming more mature? I don't have thorelii yet, but have other seed grown indo-chinese species and am trying to gage how old they need to be to fall into this rhythm and expect some potential flowers

[@carltoncarnivores]

They grow in that pattern in the wild, and you're only going to see flowers on an adult plant which takes a minimum of several years to achieve. Cultivation does not follow the same rules because there are no strict seasons in a greenhouse unless you make them so.