Spencer Lee LOST and forfeited remaining matches of NCAA Wrestling Championships...

Chael Sonnen talks Spence Lee on this episode of Beyond the Fight
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All things UFC and MMA with the undefeated Bad Guy, Chael Sonnen. UFC Champions, Jon Jones, Conor McGregor, Colby Covington, Khamzat Chimaev, the MMA hour and commentary on the latest UFC news, UFC Champions in 2022, UFC knockouts and finishes.

[@michaeljames5881]

What Chael said about wrestlers going back to big tournaments as spectators is 100 percent true. I go back to the high school state tournament almost every year and just walking into that arena haunts me with some of my worst memories. I often tell myself if I just would have done this or that different I could have been a multiple time champ…. Those things will haunt one for the rest of their lives.

[@Culvey]

I wrestled for 14 years and just started being a Ref for wrestling this year, 15 years after the last time i ever wrestled a match. I coached Jr. High for 3 years, which was tough wishing i was able to go back, but its been 10 years since i coached as well... going back there, even as a ref, was tough. I was still wishing i was able to go back and be a wrestler again, or even coach again so i could teach these kids what to do and not to make the same little mistakes i made.

[@RonniePTexan]

Only losers talk about my spelling...

[@elosoguapo8137]

Yep. Most of us don’t get to be state or national champions, so when we go back it hurts. People talk a lot about how wrestling makes you “tough”, but don’t talk very much about what that means. Wrestling helps you deal with loss. Even when you do everything right, you still lose sometimes and that feeling when you come up short never leaves you. Loss is the toughest part of wrestling and life.

[@VibraFinanceCEO]

You still throwing that pigskin over the mountains Michael 😂

[@EB12389]

The “should’ve”, “could’ve”, & “would’ve” dilemma…

[@chancedriscoll5350]

Former D1 wrestler here. Chael's early talk about watching the NCAA's with pain and looking back on the career with disdain on regret is so damn relatable. I look back on both my High School and College career that way. I'm truly haunted and I know a lot of other guys who are too. Watching those boys this week at nationals, all I can say is "damn!". I was finishing up my eligibility 6 years ago, and the scrambling is already noticeably better then it was when I was in school. Fun to watch them boys get after it!

[@daytonasayswhat9333]

I was a Division III wrestler, but feel similarly. The only reoccurring hauntings and obsessions and nightmares I have are about my wrestling shortcomings. And I’ve succeeded extremely highly in my life since (CFO of a company; pro motorcycle racer). all I could think about are the things that led to me not becoming an all American, and what I could’ve done differently. No matter how much I achieve now.

[@maxwright1441]

I’m a former D1 wrestler as well and deal with the same thing

[@aledmondson4616]

All I can honestly say is: I don't want to bother myself at this age, about what I didn't do, couldn't do, or should've done during my wrestling career. In high school, I faltered very badly in my opinion. I Wrestled far below my potential. Upon graduation in an optimum situation, if there ever are any of those, On the advice of my attorney (just kidding, my Mother) Maybe I chose the wrong place to attend college, if I wanted to be a serious wrestler, God and everyone else knows I did, considering I turned down an opportunity to wrestle for an Olympic Gold and Silver medalist as a coach. Just breathing the same air in the wrestling room might have made me a better, more disciplined wrestler. I guarantee the facilities and wrestling environment would have been better. I fought off familiar faces and Jr Colleges consideration where I already knew half the team and had a High School teammate, whom I practiced with almost daily for a couple years, win back to back individual and team JUCO national titles. Surely, I would have improved my skill level I say now. However, the life experiences, personal struggles, maturity, cultural growth that I gained, I could never have visited at those other schools. Itz a life altering endeavor that I basically picked over a school that in my opinion was not as serious about sports, let alone wrestling while I was there. They have since dropped the sport.. I'm not bothered because I now realize, even today I witnessed it; that being able to just share the sport with young kids and to enjoy encouraging them not to quit and constantly keep pushing toward what you want even when you fall back a bit, you're still in the match, is enough to justify every decision I made about wrestling. I saw a kid who I coached about 20 years ago in a doctors office today.. He had great memories of us wrestling. Told the people around the office about me w/o me knowing it. They said, so I didn't know you coached wrestling. .❤👊👊

[@cjtetloff9400]

Chance did you wrestle Kent state?

[@cjtetloff9400]

@@maxwright1441 you wrestle at Rutgers?

[@cpugh70]

The parallel from this NCAA tournament and that HS State final is uncanny.

[@scoogins]

seems like he might have some kind of a mental block

[@Cheekssss]

Factsss

[@tyronemcdonald9874]

Won’t sit well

[@adamrice5267]

Boys vs Men is where the separation comes in

[@elosoguapo8137]

What chael says about wrestlers is true. Every big tournament we go to as a spectator or a coach is a trauma inducing experience. We’re desperate to go back and try again, but we cannot. What is meant to be is meant to be.

[@BRIGRANSTROM]

Every big tournament doesn't produce traumatic experiences for everyone.

[@elosoguapo8137]

@@BRIGRANSTROM not for you Brian. What with all those gold medals and bracket sheets on your wall

[@BRIGRANSTROM]

@El oso Guapo I have competed in bodybuilding, running and wrestling. I have over 150 awards. Send me a link or your email and I'll send you a photo of some of my many awards. Pandora's box eh?

[@elosoguapo8137]

@@BRIGRANSTROM no I believe you Brian. You’re awesome. Now get back to training!

[@BRIGRANSTROM]

@@elosoguapo8137 I've been training for just over 50 years.

[@djottomatic12]

I thought the same exact thing you said Cheal. Losing your dream sucks, but finding a way to come back for 3rd is even a bigger testament to your lifelong character. You can only regret not finishing when you took a setback

[@npierce14]

Feel the same way tired of the excuses he was the most healthy he’s been in years hardly wrestled this year

[@poolboyinla]

Otto, that is a great comment that I will share with my son.

[@djottomatic12]

@@poolboyinla You can learn a lot from losing. Unfortunately, eventually it finds its way to KZbin, and your kids remind you about it every time they google your name haha. I know the feeling he had, overcoming injury, undefeated, 6th year ect. but didnt have the previous 3 Natty's in my back pocket to fall back on.

[@austinshaffer7417]

This is a very difficult topic for me personally. I've known Spencer personally in youth wrestling where we wrestled together on the Pit Bulls for Sanshiro Abe. I was exceedingly fortunate and lucky to have wrestled in that practice room with him, and other great wrestlers like Nico Megaludis and Vincenzo Joseph. We were teammates, and moreover, friends. And although I haven't had any contact with him in over 15 years, when you wrestle with somebody every day in a practice room, shedding blood and sweat, mauling it out, for years, you come to know them in a way that no one else besides you and anyone who wrestles with them like that can know them. It is just a fact of wrestling. So you can understand that I was absolutely heartbroken watching him lose in the semis. I understand his knees are a huge issue, a double ACL tear is one of the worst injuries you can receive as an athlete. In a lot of cases, it's career ending. The fact that he was still competing at that high of a level is a testament to his dedication to the sport among many other things. But even despite all of this, I cannot in good conscience, say with 100% certainty that he made the right choice. I don't think he was trying to save his knees by deciding not to wrestle back for 3rd, I do not believe his knees were the issue. I do think it was his pride that was hurt the most. I believe he will look back on that decision, and regret it deeply. He made an emotionally charged decision to not wrestle, and I'm not blaming him for making it because of how much he must've been feeling in that moment, but I do think it was the wrong decision. I've literally witnessed wrestlers throw second place and third place medals in the trash, only to come back 30 minutes later and start rifling through the trash can to retrieve their discarded medal. This type of decision, and examples of it happen all of the time, and it almost always goes on to haunt the one who made it later on after they've had a chance to process everything. I don't want to take anything away from Matt Ramos, as he wrestled an excellent match and just had Spencer's number that day, but my heart goes out to Spencer, he's an outstanding man and I will always be rooting for him. I hope he will come back to life soon.

[@farbeyonddriven8173]

I'm from 2 hours east of Murrysville and don't care that SL went to Iowa instead of stay in state. But he's a team captain and not a boy anymore. To not be there for your teammates is a very bad visual AND if he hadn't gotten beat would he have MF the finals match?

[@poolboyinla]

Well said, Austin.

[@johnbrooks756]

So this guys in college, you used to wrestle with him, but haven’t talked to him in 15 years? I’m stumped.

[@austinshaffer7417]

@@johnbrooks756 What are you stumped about? It's exactly as you said it and as I wrote it.

[@davidgreen8042]

@@austinshaffer7417 they both most likely started when they were four or sooner. No later than six. 24-15=9years old.

[@dpc0809]

Reminded me of Alex Marinelli medically forfeiting after his loss to Shane Griffith in 2021. If you want a role model look at Thomas Gilman that lost in his NCAA final but later became a World Champion. Or look at Austin DeSanto that lost to RBY last year but came back to win 3rd place despite wanting only the title. Character is built more by the tough losses than the expected wins.

[@daytonasayswhat9333]

Damn straight.

[@aledmondson4616]

Or David Carr? So much character. Did you see when he lost in the finals. How he congratulated the Champion? He is so classy...

[@bastionblackperformance3804]

Marinelli had multiple broken ribs...

[@AhPhoey]

👍👍👍

[@nathanthompson8304]

Cry babyyyyysssss like damn dude I understand you wanna be Iowas first four timer but no reason to forfeit after being beat

[@NotKD35]

Based on his mothers reaction to his loss I’m not shocked he didn’t show up after the loss. They’re a family of winners but you can never forgot how to take a loss! Everyone loses eventually.. how you respond is something you have to live with forever

[@skelley164]

Very good point Chase. That is the way it is in life too; ups and downs, ebb and flow, wins and losses. Everyone alive will be tested for resilience and character at some point; how you handle the rough times is more important than how you manage the success. Lee is a warrior who will eventually turn this into a teachable moment and be stronger for it. 👊 it’s called life people.

[@timsmothers8740]

Ms. Lee or Spencer's mother was pissed off not only at him losing but more so because it totally blew her Parlay she had going.

[@corbinwadlow2044]

Mrs. Spencer was a “backup” for the American judo team. This tells me she was not perfect on the mat neither. We all want to see our children do well in competition. Look at Carr & Monday both NCAA Champions with very talented sons wresting in the championships. What a great story this weekend was for them & their sons. Both of their sons lost this weekend, neither had a tantrum & acted like Mrs. Spencer. I know it was a tough moment for her. But what a terrible act caught on national television. I had some moments while my son was wrestling for sure, but usually over bad calls or dirty opponents. My son never wrestled for a 4th D1 National Championship or 1 for that matter & neither did I. But I hope I wouldn’t have responded that poorly.

[@hollismallory2757]

What did she do?

[@Tht1guy63]

​​@@hollismallory2757 you havent seen the video of her snapping her glasses after he lost? Its a hot meme right now

[@PJP1112]

He wrestled Ramos prior to this semi finals in the dual AND the same thing almost happened then. Ramos threw Spencer to his back and was leading 8-1 before Lee pinned him. Lee knew what he was facing heading into the semis.

[@Dr_C_Smith]

Lee was looking ahead to Glory and past Ramos.

[@MrSilus2000]

@@Dr_C_Smith Shhhhhh....be quiet scrub

[@MrBeans803]

@@MrSilus2000 you wrestled jv and got exposed for putting a shampoo bottle in your ass you shhh

[@lordhegamonster6931]

Same cementmixer type move?

[@popscola2574]

​@@Dr_C_Smith glory would never beat lee. Glory has ramos to thank for that title for taking lee out

[@mcognito]

Hi Chael, Dan Hicks introduced us in the room. We were teammates and I went Nov-Mar with broken knee bone, frayed ligament ending up Pac-10 champ & AA. Your position is spot on!! You show up to compete, not just if you win. I won’t apologize to say Iowa Univ recruits top athletes but doesn’t care enough about them and their future. I had to run the Dan Gable camp in WA State when he no-showed. Good to see your quality perspective can illuminate the proper values from an insider. Respect!

[@castrejonhugo]

Best commentary so far from Bad Guy Inc. my first thought after the pin and seeing Spencer run off the mat was that he isn’t wrestling the next session. Wish him the best, but showing up is half the battle to developing upstanding character. Kudos to the upset top dogs that still showed up like Fix and Monday.

[@zenondolnyckyj4325]

I watched the finals with a former wrestler and it was amazing. It made me wish I wrestled instead of playing hockey. New fan here. I enjoyed it more than MMA.

[@-clipz-]

God Bless turn to God. You should also read and spread the Gospel. God Bless you and your family. Repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior who died on the cross for our sins. Turn to the Lord ask for forgiveness and sin no more. Thanks, Faith, Trust, Love, Focus in God. Trust and have faith in God’s plan. Don’t use Gods name in vain or call yourself and worship other Gods for it is a sin. Repent for all your sins even one’s you may not know and ask God to show you those sins. I am nothing without God and his Goodness. Foul language is also a sin. Praying for you. Forgive as God forgives us.

[@kickandblock]

You still can wrestle man, sign up for a class

[@henrymaccus]

My first time watching the Wrestling NCAA. I watched these Young men and their Families go through the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat all weekend long! So much Glory so much heartbreak! So much Heart! Such talented athletes! So much Beautiful Technique, like poetry in Motion! I loved it! Give me more wrestling please!

[@gsamuel79]

Spencer Lee doesn't have to answer to any of us but, he's gotta look himself in the mirror and figure out if he really had anything else in the tank or not. "Excuses are for wusses" he's gotta live with that. Exceptional athlete to his credit

[@josephm3615]

Cant be exceptional if you do something like that

[@dowutado]

​@@josephm3615Yes you can. Dude won a title with no ACLs having torn 1 of them 8 days earlier. That's exceptional no matter what he chooses to do after.

[@MrSilus2000]

The nerve of sideline losers telling Spencer Lee about accountability. 😂

[@Inexact_nugget2]

@@MrSilus2000 I know right 😂 all the keyboard Warriors coming out of nowhere

[@npierce14]

exactly!!! Punk move

[@Venice666]

My mom was in prison and my dad was a homeless homeless drunk during my high school wrestling years. I still continued to wrestle. Always praying 🙏…

[@nephikalamafoni4512]

He’s still a kid. It was a bad move but he’s got his whole life ahead of him, all positive vibes to him, he’s still a legend, hope he comes back

[@antisocialmedia2507]

Problem is he is not a kid. He is by all accounts a man. He has reached the pinnacle of his sport not once but 3 times. He got to experience 3 times what the rest of us never will. He was born with natural ability and his family moved him to where he could receive the best coahing. He was always great and nobody can take away his accomplishments but he has certainly tarnished them. Last year he gave some ridiculous, less than humble, victory speech about how excuses are for wusses and referred to himself in the 3rd person. His mothers reaction speaks volumes about who they are. I have seen many great men lose. Winning simply makes you great at your sport it does not make you a great man. In order to become a great man lee needs to do some real soul searching. There is nothing admirable in how he handled loss. Daton Fix, now what he went through, that was admirable. That is what great men are made of.

[@AF-pw4we]

@@antisocialmedia2507 what happened to Daton Fix

[@antisocialmedia2507]

@@AF-pw4we he lost in the semis, barely won the next one and then ended up 4th. He was previously a 3x runner up. I am sure he was emotionally crushed but he battled on. Being tough is 24 hours a day not just when things are going good.

[@SmittyC-hf9zt]

He's not a kid. He's an adult. Even still, regardless of his "whole life ahead of him," his successes will be marred by his selfishness in this tournament. He will most definitely look back on this and wish he had done differently.

[@scourge8097]

He's almost 25-fucking years old! When do you go from "kid" to Man? I can't believe Chael kept calling him a "boy?"

[@EverettBurger]

One thing I will always remember during Sanderson's match against John Trenge was the announcer stating "this is a Davis vs. Goliath match, and the crowd is cheering for Goliath". I felt the same way cheering for Lee. We love the underdog story. But, for wrestlers, the rarity of seeing someone that darn good creates so much respect. Looking forward to watching Ramos go for a title next year. But, I'm also really for cheering for Lee going to gold in the Olympics

[@Dr_C_Smith]

Glad to see Chael weighing in on NCAA wrestling. Got to give it up for Ramos. He won it more than Lee lost it. Need to show the kid a little more love. Would love to know what he thought about Munoz v Keckeisen in the semis.

[@tuttlespeachtree3413]

Thanks for continuing to support wrestling Uncle Chael...the sport needs leaders like you!

[@alannice7212]

Probably the most relevant 12 minutes regarding wresting I’ve ever heard spoken. This was AWESOME. Well done Chael!

[@Flyingdutchman526]

Should they add submissions to make it more mainstream ?

[@scourge8097]

@@Flyingdutchman526 That's fucking ridiculous.

[@scourge8097]

Wow...really? See...to me, it was 12 minutes of pure nonsense...MOSTLY just making shit up. (Edit---among the VERY LOOONG list of just pure factual inaccuracies Chael gets wrong here, who the fuck calls a 24 year old man who's going on 25 a "boy?") Wasn't undefeated, wasn't going to be the 1st undefeated Pennsylvania 4X State Champ(Kolat, Marsteller). He was NOT "#1 in the Olympic rankings back in 2020 and heading into London." He's not even the fucking favorite to make team USA from IOWA!!!! He's at best behind Gilman, Fix, Arajau at 57KG. And the idea that he play this injury up like he's in PR and limp out there, struggle to pull his straps up...to the point where the refs come up and say, "MAN! You can't Wrestle," and he waves them off and says, "I'm doing this," basically...faking an injury as he was healthy, it's all just SUCH insanely ridiculous nonsense. As for the backside of the bracket. You get 2 points for a pin. So 30% more. PSU won by over 50 points this year. There were a HANDFUL of MFFs and they were MOSTLY legitimate injuries. But fine. So you give a random team 2.6 points instead of the 2.0 points if they receive a MFF. Chael was a decent Wrestler, but his ideas on the sport are ridiculous. You count a MFF as a loss, that solves the problem where it actually arises, at the Conference Tournaments and with regard to seeding. That's the only issue. Nobody is going to Sr Nationals to watch the backside.

[@butcherbaker4258]

My entire family history can be tracked to PA since we got here on boats and I am a big fan of Penn St, my only son will probably going to college there god willing. Chael really hit the nail on the head here, he is still a very young man but both of those young men have faced each other in competition and will meet again. He did that well on one and a half legs. When you step up for your team hurt win loose or draw he is a champion by every description of the word. God bless both young men and I hope their lives and carrier's are bright and prosperous 🇺🇲 🙏🏻

[@azouitinesaad3856]

Only the goat can talk about the NCAA immediately after a ufc main event.

[@bash547]

Phil Hellmuth?

[@jeremydyar7566]

​@@bash547 Phil Hellmuth would talk about Phil Hellmuth after any event

[@adamrice5267]

NCAA's only happen once a year. Spencer Lee type talent is once a generation. JS

[@seanburrell8159]

@@bash547 This gotta be the most random reference to Phil Hellmuth I've ever seen

[@cashrules520]

I was never a state champion, and I'll be 42 in June. It lives with you forever.. Spencer has done things only most could dream about.. Gotta go out on your shield, he's the only one that truly knows if he had it in him or not to finish.

[@npierce14]

I was ranked 3 in the state my senior year but switched and bumped up half way thru the year when we got more weight allocation with my best friend who was the returning state champ at my weight class he ended up choking and getting 4th at 189 I got 7th at 215(despite giving up all that weight) I actually had another year of eligibility (didn’t wrestle my 9th grade year) but I didnt think my parents would let me stay back like a lot of other parents let there kids for sports(. Found out after I graduated they would’ve let me) those 2 years of what could have happened have haunted my dreams for the last 15 years so I get it

[@Logan-zv4xg]

​@@npierce14 what goofy state would let you do that

[@npierce14]

@@Logan-zv4xg a lot of people get held back back from sports in Maryland I believe the cut off is like 19 but states like cali and Texas you have kids turn 20 in high school it’s nuts look at the age of freshman in college in football in football assuming a kid starts school at the right age he should turn 18 the year he heads from high school so if he does 3 years of college for the nfl draft he should be 20-21 but go look mostly 3 year players are like 23-24 when they get drafted

[@elosoguapo8137]

@@npierce14 the more personal the more universal. All of us that wrestled have a story. It’s tough, but it’s also what makes the sport great.

[@kurtjanicki7325]

@@npierce14 Yes - they do - happens everywhere - but normally it's 8th grade they get held back. They normally go to prep school for a year and the kid isn't a high school freshman until 16. And now with Covid extensions you have guys like Fix & Marinelli who were college seniors at 25-26 years old LOL. Grown-a** men.

[@clayton97330]

He was well enough to get a fall and tech fall on his way to Ramos, he was well enough for the consolation bracket. Sets a terrible example in my opinion.

[@TonyB369]

And how would you know that? Who are you to say that something didn’t happen in that match worsening the injuries?

[@clayton97330]

@@TonyB369 no injury timeouts, no limp, ran out of the arena..

[@DGillian6406]

He should’ve at least shown up for his team, for his family/friends, and for himself!

[@joshuabunkers1494]

The most unfortunate part was Spencer or the fans did not get a chance to acknowledge Spencer Lee's success. Whether he finished 3rd, 5th, or 8th, Spencer deserved to hear the fans applaud the end of his career.

[@crsdu3875]

All these guys felt pressure. All these guys were hurting. You think Dayton Fix wasn’t hurting in his soul after losing in the semis? But Dayton showed up. I have a huge amount of respect for guys like Dayton and none for spencer. If spenver had beat Ramos he would have been there for the final and he would not have been limping. His pride was hurt not his knees.

[@Fatty_Margo]

Exactly

[@Wayf4rer]

Well said.

[@jaywilliams6250]

Who cares. It’s up to the guy competing to decide if he wants to continue competing. If he left because he wanted to go get his hair cut that’s nobody else’s concern lol.

[@michaelhayes6209]

Exactly! But thats a LOT of kids these days.

[@scottiestockman4771]

Dayton has his ACL’s though. Spencer was probably just preventing poor future life quality. He’s given his physical self to the sport entirely.

[@AllOutOfEnemies1]

Some of the finest moments I've witnessed in my years in this sport are the wrestlebacks for 3rd after heart breaking losses. Whether I'm right or wrong, I lost a lot of respect for Lee

[@MSW3rd]

Yeah the wrestleback for third is some of the most brutal wrestling you can get

[@npierce14]

Yes! Fix had a battle with nagoa then an absolute war with McGee

[@Fatty_Margo]

I’ve heard so many coaches over the years say the guys going for third are the toughest guys in the bracket because they have to take a loss and still wanna come out there and wrestle their ass off.

[@jeffblackard9753]

@@npierce14 and lost to get fourth. How bad does that suck to get 2nd three times then at the worlds then get fourth as a senior? Nothing but respect for the man never achieved a fraction of what that guy did but my G-d to come up short like that NEXT LEVEL PAIN.

[@themonsterbaby]

I watched my son have to do it in his first bjj tournament. He did 3 brackets. Won gold in his first. Was doing well in the second and then got his arm trapped and subbed to a nasty rnc (by the #1 kid in Indiana), got slightly injured. Took a 5 minute injury break and went back out there and subbed the next kid for 3rd. I was more proud of him for that bronze than I was for his gold.

[@billybud9557]

I was heartbroken by Spencer's loss...but I think he should have finished the tourney.....

[@leticiagarza9855]

He’s risking getting injured…. He has torn both his ACL’s and had surgeries

[@Crazyjedi2]

Chael just to correct your point that "if you pay for LeBron you will be getting LeBron for 4 quarters." The NBA is having problems right now where the stars of the sport are taking a ton of regular season games off and just not playing so that they can rest and be 100% when the playoffs come around. Some guy are taking upwards of like 30% of all regular season games off and just not playing in them at all. This is hurting ticket sales because people want to go to their hometown teams game game when someone like the Clippers and Kawhi Leonard are in town and he just doesn't play. It's not reported by the team ahead so you buy the ticket and it might just be a waste of money if you bought it because you wanted to see Kawhi play. Almost every team in the league has a player or two that does this. It's also hurting TV viewership because casual fans aren't going to want to watch a game where the star players aren't playing. A lot of people are calling for some kind of rule change league wide to help solve this problem like lowering the amount of regular season games so not as many rest days would be needed. Just telling you so you know that other sports are going through similar issues.

[@blakeandrews3673]

They prob should have thought about that before having a ten million game fuckin season

[@blakeandrews3673]

And your High as a fuckin kite if your think he reads youtube comments

[@gwrestling]

100% truth from every wrestler’s regrets to the greatness of Spencer Lee. Thank you Chael!

[@sweeterscience83]

Damn. You Uncle Chael found the sweet spot in this sad and complex situation. Good job Unc.

[@justinflott5133]

Bigger story is look at the quality of character David Carr displays.

[@montsaint116]

what? Dancing around the mat the first 5 seconds of the match! Glad he got humbled!

[@justinflott5133]

@@montsaint116 - got you talking didn’t it. Some people understand, some don’t. Which side are you?

[@CYMotorsport]

Here’s the problem: according to him, he won in 2021 with a torn acl in his right knee suffered just a week before ncaas following his left knee injury so he had “no knees” going on to say “excuses are for wussies” after he won. So yeah unfortunately injuries by his own admission are literally out. 10:14 this is actually a great point wasn’t expecting you to take it here. Diamond League events in track they pay top talent big money to appear for this reason. But for instance I ran in europe non-diamond league while still in eligibility unattached and couldn’t be paid so scratching wouldnt effect me But they had to mix collegiate and professional runners with an obligation to appear to claw back some of that money. Bc it’s nationals, your idea to punish scratches via points is a good one.I guess in track it’s controlled via performance meaning if you lose in qualifying despite a top seed then someone else took your potential points. Surprised this hasn’t been considered before - good idea.

[@xcaluhbration]

Bro's mom crumbled her glasses up like old homework when her boy lost. 👀 You could feel that anguish.

[@popscola2574]

👓 🤪

[@itheuserfirst3186]

Makes you wonder the pressure he faced at home.

[@xcaluhbration]

@@itheuserfirst3186 let's not try to shift the narrative to him having abusive parents please.

[@matthewhall1467]

@@itheuserfirst3186 wrestlers and their families are usually 1000% invested into the sport. Especially at this level because wrestling requires an inhuman level of dedication. Her heart probably just broke seeing her kid lose after he sacrificed his knees to the altar of freestyle wrestling

[@jrdavis8062]

@@matthewhall1467 good parents invest in their children. Wrestling parents aren't special in that sense

[@williegarrett19]

What this man said is 100% true. I regret my semi-final match in the tournament… being up 5-0 and losing because I clock watched in the semi-final. Haunts me to this day. The only way is to go back out there. I went back out there and took 3rd in one my most memorable matches. (Overtime and put the guy from Grayslake HS on his back).

[@OvertheHIL524]

Same for me except I was up 6-1 with less than a minute left. Got hammer locked and decked as time was about to expire. Still went out and won the next match.

[@mpmcarthur1371]

His knees aren't the same, hopefully it won't hold him back from doing great things in the future

[@npierce14]

His knees were so bad this year he didn’t wear a knee brace for the first Time in 3-4 years

[@phattygoodness7347]

@@npierce14 That's a great point. I'm a Spencer Lee fanboy, but he had no visible issues with his knees during the season. Even when he was getting thrown to his back or cardled...he had no problem getting back to his base and escaping or reversing the other wrestlers. Regardless...maybe he was hurt or maybe he wasn't...as a fan I was disappointed that he wasn't even there. If you're truly hurt and unable to continue, then be there... go out and injury default, but pay respect to the other wrestlers. I wouldn't have wanted to be there either, but there were a lot other wrestlers...Fix comes to mind...who had their dreams squashed, but continued with the event.

[@bgizzle7545]

Uncle Chael I know you can afford shoes that fit :43 seconds into the video it looks like your toes are being held hostage and are trying like hell to escape lmao

[@xcaluhbration]

Pure dad shoe vibes.

[@gamebred26]

I mean he's a 24 year old senior. Let's not pretend he's some young kid. He's been wrestling and had more years of eligibility than many....

[@annagould2830]

Finally someone says it for “ALL” the Ghosts of wrestling past. You live with it! every day something will remind you. It is always the topic someone will ask about even 23 years later.

[@mattdiamond4523]

I understand it from the perspective that if he does plan on making an olympic run he needs to lay off his knees and begin the healing process. Why be compromised and run the risk of causing serious injury for a consolation medal and ruin his chances on the senior circuit. On the other hand, Chael brings up valid points. I just hope Spence made a decision that won’t keep him up at night.

[@griffincoefarm2886]

I don't know anything about wrestling tournaments. Chael said it though when he said he's the leader of the team. It's easy to lead when you win, hard to lead when you face diversity. How Heroic would he look if he bucked the common trend? If he gave the message all you value, I value something else. I expected to win. I lost once. Now I'm going to come out (despite injury) and lay it all out. I don't answer to placings. I answer to my team and to myself. I'll go out there and fight every match as if it's the most important match I'll ever be in. If he lost both matches he'd still place sixth. If he won one or more I'd assume his team standing improves. He's got the greatest impetus ever. Beat the demon of losing. If he'd gone out there and competed I'd call him the greatest wrestler ever. Because he didn't, I'd consider him a one of many great wrestlers though out history. Again, I know nothing about wrestling. I'm guessing there are many who will say but he has to conserve his knees for future competition where he'll get paid. That's a valid argument. Not one I subscribe to but valid. As someone who has had discs fused in their back and hip replacements (I'm not an athlete) it's just my personal mentality to leave it all out there today. I'd view it as an honor thing. I'm not calling him dishonorable.

[@nateuhrich3153]

It would have been nice to see him overcome the loss and come back for third. It would have been even nicer to see him at least come out to shake hands on the mat…as did others…in the case of a medical forfeit.

[@npierce14]

This!!!!

[@blakejameson1114]

I think that Lee has an attitude and character flaw. I am a lifelong Hawkeye but I have to say that I have never liked him. I think that him leaving the room will be an improvement to the team's attitude and morale.

[@briancobbin1412]

Bcus it wasn't medical. Just couldn't deal w the loss. I'd luv to talk shit about him for it. I hate Iowa and all they represent. But we ve never been n Spencer's position. The agony inside must have been too much to bare. Sucks. But someone's gotta lose and Spencer is just a man.

[@jeffreyclarkful]

I gotta agree. We must win and lose with grace. Not sure where Brands brothers were on the decision but I hope they encouraged him to participate in the wrestle backs. I don’t think anything but congrats goes to Ramos. He brought it the whole match. And i didn’t see Spencer in any more distress with his knees vs. any other time of the season. Character and Sportsmanship says you wrestle until your eliminated or can’t go on. His team deserved this and the Iowa Faithful/fans across the nation did as well. I think he would have gotten as strong as an ovation for 3rd as a 4-timer. We’ll never know. Still, yes, this is a young man making a helluva decision and I’m not judging him. But i think it will be revisited with regret. I will still be cheering for him in the future. Phenomenal athlete.

[@jamesanderson8338]

I feel your pain when you say you'd like to go back and do things differently. I didnt gain aggression until after HS and have had over 100 dreams that I was back and had one more year of varsity football.

[@krisdollinger6454]

His knee had nothing to do with that pin either 😂

[@Simon_the_penguin]

Few corrections. Lee is not a BOY. He is a man who has been king of his mountain for 5 years. He has loads of international adult experiences. He was NOT first PA schoolboy wrestler going for 4 championships. He was one of a elite group over the years but many proceeded him. He chose to wrestle this year. If he wasn’t ready he could have sat out and almost certainly received a medical redshirt to wrestle next year. Go watch the big 10 finals and his quarterfinal match at NCAA. his fitness was not at a level to compete for 7 minutes or over the course of 4 or 5 bouts in short period. If he wrestled in the consolation round he would have had 2 more bouts within an hour of each against high caliber guys. It is likely he would have lost at least 1 of those.

[@irongeek7933]

Agree, Lee is a man he has been in college 6 years, not five. He was already granted an extra year of eligibility due to a double knee surgery last year. He was granted another extra year for COVID so he is amongst the oldest wrestlers to ever compete. Anyone that watched wrestling all season could see he was vulnerable. And thank you for correcting the PA wrestling thing, there have been many who have won 4 championships.

[@stnd4something]

Spencer will regret this decision the rest of his life....no matter what anyone says or defends, the image of him being a warrior to finish out with team is a memory lost. I have followed Spencer since early high school and he is a class act; just made a poor decision here in his moment of great disappointment. Chael conveyed this exactly right.

[@MrSilus2000]

It’s so funny to be how these loser fans try to give lessons to some of the toughest men on the planet.

[@npierce14]

He is not a a class act he was arrogant and nasty yea you can say it was a killer instinct but even desanto said he stayed down instead of going up his senior year because in the final Spencer kept drilling his face into the mat

[@unclerico7271]

​@@MrSilus2000well when he makes proclamations about excuses being for wussies, us loser fans, some of us former all Americans ourselves, find it a bit hypocritical. He wrestled most of his college career w bad knees and accepted the accolades and lectured everyone about toughness. The kids I coach rightly look up to him. When they see a guy who achieved that much w ACTUAL injuries, then fail to finish when things finally go bad for him, it's a bad look, loser fan or not. And u telling me a 125 pounder is the toughest man on earth when I battled much bigger and tougher men, it falls flat. I get your point to an extent, but I think you may not be seeing the entire picture.

[@MrSilus2000]

@@unclerico7271 You’ve been waiting to throw that line back at him like a devilish creature.

[@MrSilus2000]

@@unclerico7271 The crazy part about you complaining is you are basing it on pure assumption. You have no idea what his physical condition was after the match. Absolutely none.

[@Mokuzai-Onna.]

I lost 2 to1 in overtime at the 1982 state championship my Sophomore you're in high school. I lost 2 to 1 in overtime my junior year in the semi finals. Took 3rd. My senior year I took state. I've had a very successful life and cannot complain. My sophomore year match is what I think about all these years. I think about it more than the state championship I took. I can tell you this, wrestling and the military has elevated me in my life so I could do well. We have our ups and downs but we should never quit. Working through our struggles is what makes us great.

[@npierce14]

Him forfeiting was a punk move. This is the most healthy he’s been in years 95% of his matches ended before the third period or within the first seconds and he didn’t wrestle a ton this year he didn’t even wear a knee brace for the first time in 3 years. 2 years ago when he won with 2 torn acls he said “excuses are for wussies” now he should add “unless you get pinned before the final and have to wrestle back” I’m not a big daton fix fan but atleast he wrestled the next day and had a battle with nagoa and a war with McGee

[@chiquita683]

This is how irrelevant 170 lbs is without Colby. Never forget

[@whodatuniverseee]

if you are a real Chael fan you’ve been waiting for this video over anything MMA.

[@Basichomelife]

What they broke records and had the highest gate ever at the o2 arena ? Lol.

[@BLACKmaigc]

​@WhoDatUniverse He's just a colby casual nothing new.

[@Mercuricmike]

He's a casual. How cute.

[@jasonowens401]

Chael My son Logan Owens wrestled at All Phase for many years and also West Linn High School and he always said he really loved getting advice from you. You are a great talker and coach and I enjoy your commentary. Keep up the good work my man we love it.

[@blakkat4126]

I very much enjoyed your take on Spencer Lee. I'm 63 and STILL look back on matches that I felt I should'ce won, or rethink a particular way I wrestled a guy . When I'm in line at a checkout, I will size up another man in line and think about strategy on how to wrestle him. I know, it's weird. Spencer Lee was untouchable this season and he looked just fine when he ran off the mat after his loss. I don't know what to think about forfeiting the rest of the way. I can't help but wonder if Tom Brands would've told him to get his ass out there if he was able to wrestle. Unless he was crawling on the floor in pain, Spencer will certainly look back on this tournament with regret. He could've finished his NCAA career with a win for 3rd place and he would've gotten a standing ovation, not just by the fans but the All-Americans on the podium.

[@brianridgley4671]

Ok let me just say Spencer is an absolute savage and I really want to see him get Olympic gold. That said here’s a solution, last person to get knocked out ( lasts the longest) back in the tournament and each wrestler moves up a slot in the bracket. This obviously affects the teams score which should give incentive to show up.

[@orangebeansir]

Damn, Uncle Chael needs to his own network at this point lol The camera quality is *INSANE*😮

[@JoeyBeeWon]

Filmed on Android S20 Ultra

[@6nosis]

Filmed on Rot 10 TaT3R ultra 33.

[@orangebeansir]

@@JoeyBeeWon actually ?

[@michaelkeefe6530]

I 100% agree and relate to Sonnen on the experience of past wrestlers and AA's going to NCAA's. It's still hard. So much regret and should haves/what ifs. Fell short in 2007 and I still get dreams where I'm offered another shot at the title.

[@raytorres8050]

Chael, I love your videos, sir. Please do more wrestling videos. Love both sides of the spectrum.

[@mikemartin5073]

Did you eat fried chicken moments before this video? There is a shiny ring around your mouth

[@Theblackvortex75]

That or ribs maybe BbQ

[@rogergroover4971]

You are the man Chael! I’ve always enjoyed your wit as a fighter and know your very smart. (I’ve also always enjoyed your fights). Your analysis of the tournament and the NCAA is very informative and I hope changes things for the better. Thanks Chael. Roger

[@sugewhitejacoby8654]

Finally something Chael can be honest to talk about. I tuned in to see the wrestlebacks and was disappointed to see Lee take the medical way out. But semuscwere fire!

[@itheuserfirst3186]

It's always weird when competitive athletes quit because they can't dominate.

[@neilgunns8391]

Happens all the time. 1 seed loses a lot in wrestle backs also. Drive and motivation is lost.

[@npierce14]

Exactly now they trying to say he was hurt when this was the first year he didn’t wrestle to the 3rd period but like 5 times all year and didn’t wear a knee brace for the first time in like 3 years

[@johnworthington6576]

This kid will never look back with regret. He is a 3x National Champ dealing with ACL injury for the past 6 years. For us to even witness his greatness for the past 5 years and beyond is a great treasure. If my son even makes it to a NCAA tournament ever in his lifetime D1 2 or 3 I’ll be absolutely thrilled. It’s all about perspective. He doesn’t owe us a thing. He did everything on his own. No one ran beside him at 4am, cut the weight or bleed with him. The mind of a young man with the challenges and let downs he has faced on a national scale will never be known by us. Congrats on a great career Spencer and it was a real joy to have witnessed your dominance in the face of a true injury not being hurt but actually injured

[@OvertheHIL524]

No one is saying he owed it to the spectators, he owed it to himself.

[@NB-fk6ej]

That’s so crazy. One of my best friends was winning states and with a minute left he said he thought “i can’t believe I’m about to be state champ.” And he gave up several points in a few seconds and lost it all.

[@Kilty007]

Lee is the most dominant college wrestler on top I've seen. I'm guessing he's strong as an ox because his trapped arm gut was practically unstoppable. He battled through injuries all the way back to high school yet still racked up a very respectable 98-6 career in his six years (or was it seven?) as an Iowa Hawkeye. It'll be interesting to see what he does at the Senior level. Is he capable of horsing elite grown men like he did college kids? Time will tell. His endurance has always been a bit of a shortcoming in my opinion.

[@blakejameson1114]

I remember him losing to Sebastian Rivera twice, Piccinini, and Ramos but I can't remember the other two losses.

[@christopherroth7239]

@@blakejameson1114 Natham Tomasello and Ronnie Bresser

[@blakejameson1114]

@@christopherroth7239 I don't care for Lee. I really hope that he doesn't stick around the Hawkeye program. I think that he is a drag to the team attitude and morale. He is good but he has been made out to be a lot better than he is.

[@ianshue2890]

Not to take anything away from Spencer Lee or Matt Ramos, but that last 40 seconds was Lee’s fault. It’s ironic that the man many consider to be the greatest Hawkeye of all time ended up losing because he broke the #1 rule that is instilled in all Hawkeye wrestlers, and that is to never stop wrestling until that final whistle is blown. Spencer shut down at the last 40 seconds. Lee got put in a front headlock and he could’ve tried to get out of it, but he just sat there and gave Ramos the exact opportunity he needed to get that cement mixer. You can argue whether Spencer could’ve rolled through, bridged out, but the truth is he should’ve never got put in that position in the first place, but he got lazy, he didn’t even really try to get out of that front headlock and it cost him. It’s ironic that this happened to someone like him. I got some serious Dan Gable vibes from that match. Spencer is on the brink of making history and just smashed everyone his senior year, but then gets upset by another wrestler. This is a very pivotal point in Lee’s career as his career could either go uphill or downhill from here. When Dan Gable lost his last match in college, he used that loss to get better and reach a level of dominance in 1972 that I personally believe hasn’t been reached since in American wrestling, and that could be how Spencer Lee ends up. However he could end up being more like Dean Heil. Dean Heil was a 2x NCAA champion, and came into his senior year as an incredible dominant wrestler with a big win streak. But at some point in his senior season, he got upset, and he never mentally recovered from it, and since then he went downhill. Heil went from a 2x NCAA champ, to not even getting All-American status his senior year. At this point, Lee’s career could go either way, and as much as I and many other people want to help him, that is a decision he must make on his own for it is his journey. He could either hold onto this loss and let it haunt him and go downhill, or he could get over it and use this loss to make him stronger and reach another level dominance. But only time will tell

[@scoogins]

When I found out Lee is almost 25 years old it kinda soured me on him. Not sure if that's normal for college wrestling, but it just seems weird to me

[@daytonasayswhat9333]

I was a Division III wrestler, but feel similarly. The only reoccurring hauntings and obsessions and nightmares I have are about my wrestling shortcomings. And I’ve succeeded extremely highly in my life since (CFO of a company; pro motorcycle racer). All I often think about are the things that led to me not becoming an all American, and what I could’ve done differently. No matter how much I achieve now.

[@bradenzalapi2646]

Looked for ya all weekend hoping to get a picture with ya, no luck🥲 But thank you for supporting wrestling and putting out content like this!!!!

[@demongustavditters7150]

Didn’t know all the details to Spencers story. I imagine he was overwhelmed with immense emotion. To have wrestled so well and hard for so long with an injury like he’s carried means he must have been feeling Soemthing unheard of. He’s not a wuss. He’s sacrificed so much. Chael is right he will be haunted as have I with this sport. I can’t imagine how much more he will be haunted than I bc I’ve faced it just from not completing my collegiate career. I staked my entire future on it and becoming a coach and things fell through financially. I couldn’t be around the sport again. It brings back too much pain. His has to feel 10 fold what I’ve experienced bc he’s got that pedigree and all that attention and so much more sacrifice. My heart goes out to you Spencer Lee! You’ve given more to this sport than any of us commenting. We don’t have a right to be harsh on you! Your liable to feel bad enough on your own and you don’t need any other negativity to make it worse! From one warrior to another, I love you man and I hope you find peace over time! It will get easier brother!

[@belalbelal4614]

I’m not buying the hurt knee story. Spencer Lee got destroyed by Matt Ramos. I watched that match and it was awesome. Spencer did the right thing by running away. He needed a mental health day. I remember his mom reaction in the crowd when she broke her glasses. Great emotional moment for wrestling. Jordan Boroughs did a fantastic job commentating. Congratulations to all the Champions; awesome job. Congratulations to Cael Sanderson and PSU. Aaron Brooks has a physique built for MMA LHW division.

[@gordonelson6820]

If he had won, I bet he would have wrestled on Saturday night.

[@ExXile_1]

I would say a lot of athletes for any sport, know those feelings and memories. If it's your passion and even if you just competed at a high level in HS or college, you will always have those experiences replayed through your head, the good and the bad, the what ifs, the itch to be able to compete again, rewind time, and to just have one more year. It's something that doesn't leave you and it's why so many of us want our kids to compete in sports, so they can have those experiences and the memories that come with them.

[@viperboyjam1971]

It's an easy and simple fix, count medical forfeits as a ln official loss/win on the record and allow full team points awarded. Coaches will think heavy before doing it

[@Jv9569]

Spencer Lee's mom couldn't let the sight of her son losing in such fashion get close. Seriously though, the prospect of more of these guys trying their hand at mma is what interests me the most.

[@justacasualgaming]

Facts. I was a 2 time wrestling state champ could have been a 3 timer but lost my senior year in the finals and every year I go watch the state championships and wonder if I did this or did that would I have gotten that 3rd. Still haunts me after 20 years. Lol

[@XZOL445]

What is your real name, year you graduated high school in, and state you went to high school?

[@w4974]

Nothing hurts like losses in the finals, Almost better to end the year taking 3rd with a win than on loss taking second

[@justacasualgaming]

@x zol my name is Rob Watson went to southern Vance High in North Carolina and year 2003.. look it up lol

[@XZOL445]

@@justacasualgaming I like your style. Congrats on your success.

[@justacasualgaming]

@@XZOL445 Thank you! Appreciate it.

[@waynemellon924]

thanks for speaking up this is so true if we want to grow as a sport!!!

[@jasonmiller9495]

Spencer wrestled the whole season injured. His knees are gone

[@dennieuhl1799]

Love wrestling, great point in this video! Feel the same way in ncaa football when guys sit out bowl games and the school’s fans pay tons of money to go wherever they are playing to watch and support them…..the institution more than likely gave you the opportunity to go to school for free and supported you in your football career, then for you to step out on all of that plus your teammates who are playing should be not allowed

[@jameshamilton2217]

Those other wrestlers deserved a chance to wrestle him in the consolation. Marinelli did the same thing last year.

[@Ryan_YoungUSA]

Valid point. Really didn't see it until now from this point of view. We'll stated

[@grecojones]

He won it last year with 0 legs.

[@anthonymills7743]

He didn't wrestle last year. Suriano would have given him trouble.

[@coryewing15]

I grew up wrestling and I definitely thought Lee made a poor decision I went out and wrestle hurt and wrestle on the backside if I had to I would never even think of doing what lee did

[@zacksingleton2419]

I didn't know I needed this video. Undefeated. Uncle chael.

[@bobbichiodo6934]

Whatever his decision right or wrong he will go on and do amazing things, it not for anyone to judge him.. bad enough to see his mother act the way she did .. win or lose, it's a son to be proud of Great job Spencer😊

[@hdunalaska]

My wrestling career ended at 17 due to shoulder injuries. Still eats me alive that I never got the chance to perform at my best. Will always love the sport but still have a hard time watching it at 26.

[@WilliamsWrestlin]

Should've done your best to find ways to work your shoulder back to health. Your body is a beautiful machine that can heal if you find the way to heal it. I understand where you're coming from but hey if you can still move you can wrestle. Find a club and see if you can get back into it

[@kaypie3112]

I know how you feel. I’m 60 and still regret not putting 100 percent into wrestling during high school.

[@npierce14]

I was ranked 3 in the state my senior year but switched and bumped up half way thru the year when we got more weight allocation with my best friend who was the returning state champ at my weight class he ended up choking and getting 4th at 189 I got 7th at 215(despite giving up all that weight) I actually had another year of eligibility (didn’t wrestle my 9th grade year) but I didnt think my parents would let me stay back like a lot of other parents let there kids for sports(. Found out after I graduated they would’ve let me) those 2 years of what could have happened have haunted my dreams for the last 15 years so I get it

[@daledreher4107]

No kidding 😮

[@Antonio00408]

THANK YOU CHAEL FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO

[@talktolee]

Totally agree and you made some great points! I just don't know how you make it a reality unforunately!

[@vincecapri1]

He quit plan and simple! Yes, his knee was an issue but he wrestled all year on it and was undefeated.

[@brybry865]

Spencer lee was so big I don’t even think we cared that much that yianni won 4 titles.

[@FatboyDLR]

I like what another poster said, scroll down and you’ll see it. He said everybody works hard and everybody is hurting. He said how Dayton fix lost but he kept going. And I totally agree when he said had Spencer beaten Ramos, he would’ve been in the finals match and he would not have been limping. So true.

[@gerardvanpell2678]

Thanks Chael! I kind of understand why he didn't wrestle anymore....he got stuck with an amazing move and history was lost....I wish he would've wrestled back...I think the scenario you describe would have been better....idk....I can only imagine he was devastated and only a short time to decide....thanks again for the commentary!

[@shortsellerslie]

Great take from a mature statesman of the sport. Can feel the love and empathy. I miss my wrestling days. And I don’t. IYKYN.

[@kaypie3112]

“I miss my wrestling days- and I don’t” What a great statement. I feel the same way- over 40 years later. One of the most brutal sports on the planet.

[@hawk4life605]

The kid is 13 months removed from double ACL surgery and has been injured the majority of his college career. Senior nationals are next month. They are most likely saving him for that. It's also possible that he is actually injured and in wrestling you dont divulge that information. If you did, your opponents will attack the injured area. His team also had second place locked up with NO chance of getting first so why risk an injury so bad that you cant continue in freestyle?

[@patrickkrasavage5299]

My brother wrestled div1 for Hofstra and he knows some kids from Iowa.. word is lee won't be able to wrestle in future because of his knees. THE MAN will be a terrific coach tho!

[@hawk4life605]

@@patrickkrasavage5299 I hope that's not true but he has had a hard time staying healthy

[@lexingtonconcord8751]

He was not injured. He did not finish.

[@npierce14]

Him forfeiting was a punk move. This is the most healthy he’s been in years 95% of his matches ended before the third period or within the first seconds and he didn’t wrestle a ton this year he didn’t even wear a knee brace for the first time in 3 years. 2 years ago when he won with 2 torn acls he said “excuses are for wussies” now he should add “unless you get pinned before the final and have to wrestle back” I’m not a big daton fix fan but atleast he wrestled the next day and had a battle with nagoa and a war with McGee

[@darrellpeterson7337]

So if they are saving him for Senior nationals is that any reason to not even show up at the arena and support your teammates? He was supposed to be a team leader and that is not a very good look.

[@mikereiling7]

This is similar to NCAA football players that skip their Bowl game to "prepare for the draft"

[@QuantmWolf]

Truths were put down here that had to be said. Chael is right about a lot here. Wrestling is a unique category of experience. When I look back through my career, (16 years of my life) it’s seeded with so much sentimental nostalgia, some of the most memorable/cherishable highs. Inversely, there also is a ridiculous amount of regret. Sinking and weighted deep regret. And those regrets stick to you no matter how old you get, you can still remember the exact things that you wish you could go back and do different. But you cannot ever get the chance to, and so it becomes an obstacle. Spencer will have to deal with the obstacle of forfeiting out in the last NCAA tournament of his life. Made the decision in pain and quit. Should’ve just wrestled through and taken the hit in stride. But nonetheless I have nothing but love for the guy and will always be a supporter. Ps. The idea of incentivizing sounds raw at first but makes the most sense to me

[@justinflott5133]

I think his mentality was more along the lines of “ I DONT COMPETE FOR THIRD PLACE!”

[@itheuserfirst3186]

Quitting is worse than placing third. Some of these guys brainwash themselves to such a degree that a loss so devastates them emotionally that they can't continue.

[@justinflott5133]

@@itheuserfirst3186 - I 100% agree with you. Total disgrace to the thousands of wrestlers that would have given anything to wrestle there.

[@NicholasRodriguezN7]

I feel for Spencer. Ramos only won because of Spencer's injuries. That's exactly why he did nothing in the final against Glory. He's not on his level let alone Spencer's.

[@ernestcrane6227]

He had Lee on his back twice before this and was leading 8-1 before getting pinned in their previous match. He’s certainly on Lee’s level.

[@raminsedighi3280]

Anyone notice how the ad placement was a cliffhanger

[@MrMagneticSponsoring]

I get what you're saying, and I agree, but how would you enforce something like this (making them wrestle in the wrestlebacks or penalizing them)? And if you say a doctor has to look at them in order to see if they are truly hurt, and a doctor looks at him and says,"i don't see anything wrong with him", well an athlete can say," well i still can't wrestle, it hurts too much". What do you do then? Lets say , since he got the OK from the doctor and wrestles (because he doesn't want to penalize his team), and he ACTUALLY gets hurt, can he sue the NCAA for making him wrestle?

[@tommyrq180]

Everyone at Nationals is hurt. They’re wrestlers, so usually they’re hurt badly. Every single post-season tournament in my D1 career I was hurt, sometimes really badly. And the CULTURE of wrestling is to gut it out. The brotherhood of wrestling is to gut it out. Like it or hate it, that’s the culture. Lee violated the cultural norms. That is inescapable. IF he had some back in consolations and forfeited during the match due to being hurt, and really hurt, then we could all have let him off the hook. But he quit right away after losing. Sorry. As good as Lee is, and he’s really good, he quit and he will regret it and Iowa fans should never, ever forgive him for the team points he lost. Just as Metcalf should never be forgiven for unsportsmanlike conduct when HE lost in the finals. And I don’t care what people think. I dislocated both patellas (kneecaps) in a national freestyle tournament and stayed out on the mat and my father, who was my coach, said to give it a shot. And that’s not bragging, that’s NORMAL. Everyone is hurt because it’s WRESTLING. This is combative sports. It’s the essence of masculinity, just short of war. The masculine and cultural thing to do was to do what Chael said, and get out there limping and win or lose, hurt, like a man.

[@SJ-gk2km]

Yeh just maybe wrestlers are learning a smarter approach to prevent worse or more injuries. Lee wrestled years on torn ACLs, so it isn't like we should question how tuff the guy is. And among all the haters wtf knows exactly what went into this decision such as extent of injury/risk and upcoming events. The answer is Lee, his coaches and likely family, nobody else.

[@arielrichmond1238]

He got caught underneath him and Ramos capitalized... what an event this tournament is...

[@PJP1112]

He didnt get caught and it was not a fluke. That pin was not the first, not the second, but the THIRD time Ramos put Lee on his back.

[@acetaste5491]

I said wen it happened... the pressure got to him... that's exactly y being a four timer is so rare...

[@chrisroe4324]

You make a valid point. Well worth thinking about and considering.