"Spin, Spin, Spin!"

[@wgmskiing]

In wet conditions following the leading edge of clouds is often a requirement if you want to climb. This video demonstrates how little margin for error there is in that situation. Luckily the DG-1000 is a stout aircraft and these guys were lucky to survive. The audio variometer is quiet in sink because it has automatically selected cruise mode which inhibits the sink tone in all but the worst sink, otherwise you'd be listening to it all day long in the glide from point to point. If they were circling it would switch modes and provide audio across the full band. It would also potentially switch it's reference point for "0" (see: netto, super netto, etc.) Lastly, for the day depicted here I believe you'd find the lapse rate was closer to the moist adiabatic lapse rate than the standard. Now is the perfect time to finish up that glider rating Juan, I think you'd enjoy it. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

[@blancolirio]

OK THAT explains the vario tone then, Thanks Garrett!

[@se2100]

Lucky they were in a DG-1000 ( +7 g to - 5 g)

[@Markle2k]

Wiki says the DG-1000 has a retractable engine. Is that an option rather than standard equipment?

[@arminstrobel8464]

@@Markle2k an option. Usually called then DG-1000T

[@theflyingfool]

@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Dry adiabatic lapse rate is 2deg/1k ft, wet is 3deg/1k ft

[@MedEighty]

Bill Burr's Monday Morning Podcast sent me here and it really was as educational as he said.

[@uselessoutdoorsman2826]

Who would've thought old Billy bonjour ginger balls would be educational.

[@MedEighty]

@@uselessoutdoorsman2826 He's always educational. I see him more as an angry philosopher than a standup comedian.

[@mgarofalojr]

Glidah!

[@RIGTHEMORT]

Didn't know what the hell he was talking about. But here I am..

[@kevinherman2169]

Me too. Thank you Bill.

[@aarondelltify]

Came here cause Bill Burr suggested it. Holy balls my hands are sweating and my heart is fainting. I'll never look at flying the same.

[@ShaunHensley]

When/where did Bill speak on this?

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

I’m going from here to Bills podcast

[@nikolas6898]

@@ShaunHensley around the 13 minute mark on his monday morning podcast 3-22-21

[@cuz129]

Isn't he awesome at explaining complex ideas to nonpilots? You rock!

[@Tricia_K]

A hundred times YES!!

[@TheGbelcher]

Juan Brown is the man.

[@cockatoo010]

He's awesome at teaching aviation. Bet he'd be an amazing CFI

[@easternwoods4378]

Is that the same spiral that Kobe's pilot did ?

[@Silverhks]

@@easternwoods4378 basically, yes it is believed so

[@maxon1672]

Serious respect and props to the “student” for taking control of the situation and likely saving both of their lives. I’ve flown with a couple dodgy instructors before, and it takes guts to say no, even more to take control. I’m thankful to have never been in a situation as dire as this. Anyone know if the student sail plane pilot has a KZbin channel?

[@sarahcolliver7650]

The instructor was not a dodgy pilot or instructor. A lapse in judgment can’t hit us all.

[@9.5to1]

@@sarahcolliver7650 yep it was only seconds of misjudgment out of the hundreds of hours, it can get us all.

[@datalorian]

@@sarahcolliver7650 He instructed the student to fly into IMC, developing this entire situation. Did you watch the same video as us or what?

[@ialsoagree]

@@datalorian I'm not sure it's clear that the instructor actually told him to fly into it. I've seen other videos that seem to indicate that the instructor was telling him to fly right (away from the hills) and into the gap in the clouds in order to get down below the cloud layer. What I think happened, based on watching a number of videos, is that the student nor the instructor are paying enough attention to the yaw string. Watch the yaw string again. On multiple occasions the student is giving roll and pitch to turn left and right, but giving far insufficient rudder to maintain coordinated flight. Essentially, the plane is skidding (nose is on the low side of the flight path). You can get a pretty good view of this @ 8:36 - the plane is banking to the right, but at one point the yaw string shows that the plane is moving strongly to the left and the pilot banks the plane to match the yaw (rather than fighting the skid with rudder input). Then wind up in the clouds, and at 9:18 you'll see the pilot start to bank right (away from the hillside) but airflow pushes the plane sharply to the left (strong yaw string movement showing the plane is skidding). The skid isn't corrected until about 9:30 (either due to less sideways air, or due to rudder input to correct). At one point during the skid, the yaw string shows that the airflow is pushing the plane so hard that the yaw string is starting to flutter (airflow is being disrupted over the plane, or the wind is strongly gusting). Immediately after, at about 9:34, you'll see the student pilot again bank to the right, but the yaw string shows strong airflow to the left indicating the plane is once again skidding to the left toward the ridge. I suspect that the student was not yet well coordinated on the yaw string, based on the lack of coordination between banking and rudder inputs and that the teacher was more focused on trying to figure out where they were and what terrain was around them and not paying sufficient attention to how the plane was actually flying (primarily, that airflow was pushing them strongly to the left despite multiple attempts to bank and fly to the right).

[@djSmokeShow]

@@ialsoagree VERY good analysis, thank you.

[@lordauriel8724]

i'm a glider pilot and although not nearly as experienced as the instructor on this flight, let me say that watching them in such close lateral proximity to the clouds made the hairs on my neck stand up. Every alarm bell went off. And that was way before they turned left INTO the soup.

[@skydive1424]

Lord Auriel agree; they threw away their escape when they turned left into the soup. No problem to fly over clouds as long as you have an escape into clear air but I suspect they were desperately looking for lift to get them home and took that near fatal risk that got them behind the slope into the rotor.

[@lacantinadicrono798]

the problem is that sometimes you get used to do those things because there is no real alternative. i used to fly in a region where very low viz was the norm for 10 months a year. then the choice is not to fly, or fly in the conditions you have. then you get used to flying without seeing an horizon, and one day you also lose contact with the ground. the day it happens, if you dont have a gyro, you then will be very likely to end up in the statistics.

[@ivansemanco6976]

@@lacantinadicrono798 If you are flying at such conditions, I expect that you have apropriate flight instrument and training. Not like this case.

[@TachyonDriver]

@@lacantinadicrono798 So go ahead and fly, but prepare to land out where you can see. Nice & safe...

[@SVSky]

Fly powered and hang gliders, working on sailplane add on. I would have left way before. Better to exercise superior judgement rather than superior skill.

[@cookselectric]

Funny how KZbin has no problem de-monitizing content but they don’t have a problem still ramming in the adds while doing so.... thanks for all your hard work @blancolirio

[@coriscotupi]

That's exactly why I use adblockers.

[@soaruk3697]

@@coriscotupi Funny how they don't stop morally bankrupt c++ts from posting an illicitly posted video as well

[@mikus4242]

@@soaruk3697 I think you could argue fair use.

[@soaruk3697]

@@mikus4242 not at all - owner didn't give permission to post - leaked by some morally corrupt slimeball and the distributed by too many self serving morons who lack the intellectual capacity to understand the wider implications of doing so to boost their pageviews like the moron that owns this page.

[@mikus4242]

@@soaruk3697 First of all Juan Browne is no idiot. Second, look up fair use regarding copyright law.

[@idanceforpennies281]

Glider training is the bomb. I did gliders before I went anywhere near a powered plane and I'm so glad I did. It sets up your aeronautical skills for life.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

Especially when all your engines fail.

[@martinsaunders7925]

Cant agree more,learned at a club sponsored by British Airways[ BEAin those days]. I guess it led to better situational awareness when engines quit or in the case of sailplanes when the instructor pulled the tow release to simulate a cable break at 400 ft

[@idanceforpennies281]

@@martinsaunders7925 I think it just gives you a better feel for what air currents do, how your plane wants to wander off in drift, how to conserve and use energy etc etc.

[@idanceforpennies281]

@@takingthescenicroute1610 That's quite true actually.

[@AviationNut]

Wow I read your first sentence as "Glider training is dumb" and i was about to go off on you how wrong you're luckily I read it again. LoL

[@drkatel]

Give that student a gold star. That was a test with zero re-takes.

[@paultopguy9077]

That student didn’t follow basic rules of always turning away from the ridge and in the process nearly killed two people.

[@iankirkland2368]

@@paultopguy9077 he followed his instructors orders. Did you even pay attention Paul?

[@justcommenting4981]

The test was not listening to the instructor. A very hard one hopefully most people don't have to take.

[@OneTequilaTwoTequila]

They should revoke the instructor's rating of the "instructor." What an idiot!

[@brendanwood1540]

@@iankirkland2368 It's a bit like NASA. That type of culture gets people killed. The most important attribute that any pilot, or any person in position of authority, can have is to question unsafe or unlawful orders. To never let a person silence you based on their perceived tenure. Lacking that self confidence is a sign that an individual is not ready to take responsibility for the lives of others. That is why every engineer gets a stamp and a ring. The ring is to remind you of the human cost at stake before you decide to approve anything with the stamp. There is no reason to take risks at low altitude especially when gliding in IFR conditions. If you have a choice to fly away from the clouds into VFR conditions and gain altitude over the terrain that is always a better option. Especially considering that there is turbulence in clouds. It is reckless to test your skills by endangering the lives of passengers and civilians on the ground. Obviously this instructor is partly to blame. If he was assessing this type of attribute he should have intervened when the student agreed to make the wrong decision and then reinforced the lesson. Because failing a lesson should not result in death. Obviously he was not intending to teach that particular lesson and his credentials as an instructor should be seriously questioned at this point in time.

[@noahgrove2046]

I cannot imagine flying without an artificial horizon, even on a perfectly clear day. Glad everyone walked away from this one and we could all learn from it. Fly safe everyone!

[@cabdolla]

It’s quite easy, you use the horizon to set your pitch attitude. It keeps your eyes out the window where they should be!

[@toastrecon]

Interesting. I was wondering why they didn't have an artificial horizon. Some more info here: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/63959/is-it-normal-for-gliders-not-to-have-attitude-indicators

[@cabdolla]

@@toastrecon we don’t use them, we use the horizon. It’s really not necessary for a glider. Most old powered airplanes like the piper cub also do not have one.

[@toastrecon]

@@cabdolla yeah, that’s basically what the link says: not designed for IFR, so don’t need one. Going into IFR conditions means that you done messed up and all bets are off.

[@cabdolla]

@@toastrecon it all depends on where you fly and the type of clouds. Part of being a competent glider pilot is following the cloud through its lifecycle so that you know if it’s growing or diminishing and how hard you can push the limits.

[@johngilbert1325]

How and why youtube de-monetize this guy's channel is beyond me. It's one of the best technical, didactic aviation channels on youtube. Thanks for all the work you put into this for pilots and people that love aviation!

[@rinzler9775]

Because youtube are scumbags.

[@aniquinstark4347]

Because KZbin wants to pocket all the money. They constantly "demonetize" channels for no reason but continue to run ads on the content that they found objectionable even though it doesn't break any rules. It's all a scheme.

[@goodisnipr]

Because channel uploader doesn't talk enough about the plane races and the pilots' gender. True shame though, uploader deserves revenue.

[@pepperypeppers2755]

@@goodisnipr Pretty clear from your comment you've never watched a left leaning KZbinr, but they get affected by the demonization algorithm too. No one knows how it works, we all just know that it doesn't work well

[@indigenoussober407]

@@pepperypeppers2755 Haha, good one bud.

[@Polymathes]

I really appreciate the fact based and expert narration on the this channel.

[@russpalmeri]

I am a retired teacher of anatomy and physiology. I always wondered how pilots got disoriented, not knowing which way the plane was oriented. It’s easily done if you were standing at rest, because the balance mechanism will alert you to what position your head is in. But as was so beautifully illustrated by the ruler with the string and weight , this can be impossible in a moving airplane. Very nicely done, and you, sir, are a good teacher.

[@jjxtwo1]

"Uh, no charge for today's flight."

[@BennyGeserit]

LOL. Or more appropriately deafening silence.

[@cardboardboxification]

@Javier Solis it’s a game, guessing what that smell was from lunch

[@GlideYNRG]

Firstly, that's a ballsy decision for the two pilots to release this footage for others to learn from their decisions. Thankyou to both of them. Was hard watching them pull into the cloud and possibly one of the hairiest videos out there I've watched in a long time. Thanks for the breakdown.

[@bearowen5480]

As I watched them cruising parallel to the ridge with nothing but cloud to their left yet numerous but diminishing clear air escape paths to their right, I found myself leaning intensely to the right as my whole body strained to bank them away from IMC and the cloud-obscured terrain to the left. A constant menace for soaring pilots is that as we approach the lower limits of our final glide cone to the field, we have a tendency to press just a little too much toward where we think the "lift" might be which would give us a climbing "save", thus prolonging our flight. In this video, I have the sneaking hunch that's what these guys were thinking as the clouds quickly foreclosed their escape vector toward descending terrain and clear air to their right. They were very lucky to have survived! I think it was American competitive soaring great of the 1970s, George Moffatt, who wrote that soaring is a manic-depressive sport wherein one's mood varies in direct proportion to one's altitude above the ground. Amen!

[@duckgoesmooo]

@@bearowen5480 Is there a reason they have no AH. No electrics to run the gyros? Never flown a sail.

[@tsclly2377]

They probably had the write-up.. (and someone knew someone)

[@razablanco3766]

I imagine the only person who would have a problem releasing it is the instructor

[@robertlegere580]

I love how you explain things. I too am a pilot. I tend to explain things as if I were speaking to other pilots. My friends and family members could never understand.I show them your videos to help them understand human factors. Thank you so much for what you do!

[@tomedgar4375]

Great explanation on how spacial disorientation occurs. In pilot training, I was surprised on how my senses were different (and wrong) compared to the instruments when flying in the clouds. I would never had believed it without experiencing it. 👍

[@frandanco6289]

it's spatial...

[@Soordhin]

Yup, quite eye opening. And it can happen very very fast. I was doing my glider license check flight with a bunch of other aspirants out of a winch launch with a low cloud base, the first guy entered clouds after release for just 4 or 5 seconds, enough to tumble out with over 60 degrees of bank while thinking he kept it straight and steady. More than enough space to recover, and not really an unusual attitude considering that turns of 60° bank are quite normal for gliders, but it was still scary to watch from the ground. Later, during my powered flight IFR training, especially in turbulent air (AZ in summer) it could be quite interesting to note the difference between instruments and sensory impression, but i guess that is a very normal thing for every IFR student at one point.

[@tomedgar4375]

@@Soordhin My experience happened over Goodyear flying into Deer Valley

[@Soordhin]

@@tomedgar4375 Yup, remember that area quite well, trained out of GYR, although we had our own private little airport close by with its own ILS and markers to practice IFR stuff. Although the marker beacons got stolen every few months...

[@waynebooker498]

What kind of instructor pilot allows them to go into the clouds next to a mountain. Good grief.

[@Silverhks]

Not just allowed, actually suggested it

[@ColinWatters]

Especially as the lift appeared so marginal.

[@sucher22]

Dumb and Dumber. Two idiots allowing themselves to get into that situation in the first place. They should each take Charles Darwin's advice and not reproduce.

[@AureliusR]

@@Silverhks He did not suggest it. The instructor was, unfortunately, distracted by doing calculations on his PDA to figure out the height needed versus distance and winds aloft to get back to the airport. He obviously had fairly good confidence in his student to be able to handle the aircraft for a few moments while he worked on that. Hence why he didn't see them slowly veering to the left.

[@AureliusR]

@@sucher22 What a stupid, ignorant, asshole thing to say. You know literally nothing of these pilots outside this video. You have apparently completely missed the boat on how airplane safety works, and how situations like this happen to even the BEST pilots in the world.

[@SgtBooker44]

Juan, we should all be able to log these videos as ground instruction.

[@davidsoom1551]

A superb pilot uses his superb judgement to avoid having to use his superb skill.

[@maxhaines3794]

David Soom stupid comment cause there r so many situations where u cant avoid what Happens next...just a simple example is a bird strike.

[@davidsoom1551]

@@maxhaines3794 Not a stupid comment at all. Nothing is 100% I've taught my student this for years. No birdstrikes yet.

[@davidsoom1551]

@@maxhaines3794 You name those "situations" and I'll name all the ones that relate to my comment. Will you do that?

[@sucher22]

Dumb and Dumber. Two idiots allowing themselves to get into that situation in the first place. They should each take Charles Darwin's advice and not reproduce.

[@Tricia_K]

Thanks so much! Despite having never even flown IN a plane, let alone piloted one, I'm learning so much from all your videos on this truly fascinating (to me, anyway!) topic - the way you explain every term and abbreviation, breaking everything down without ever straying into condescension, is more appreciated than you could know! :)

[@kaelshade4275]

That awkward moment when you listen to Bill Burr's podcast and him talking about his flight training gets you recommended to watch a channel like this.

[@cup_and_cone]

If I was that student, it would have been my last ever ride with that IP.

[@nocluewhatimdoing4543]

If I was that student, it probably would have been my last ride, period. I don't know if I would have had the quick reactions and werewithal to take control from the instructor and recover that spin/spiral.

[@Andrew-13579]

It almost seems like the instruction goal of the day was, "Now, today we are going demonstrate how to die in a glider. Let's see if you can figure out how to not die today and save us both. After which, I'll sign you off as glider rated. Remember, there are no points for 2nd place...except for the points of the tree branches." After they get on the ground, "Now, don't ever do again what we just did, and you'll have lots of fun in a glider." (Now on to the next student. )

[@noooby100]

Why does everyone think that this is a student? The DG1000 is not a glider for students to learn in. It is a high performance 2 seat glider. You can upskill in it learning X-country or different soaring methods but it is not an abinitio machine. The guy in the front seat might have his licence but just wants to get more familiar with certain lift conditions. Using the word student infers someone who is unlicenced and unskilled. The person in the front seat was neither of those.

[@nocluewhatimdoing4543]

@@noooby100 I would argue that if you’re learning something, you are a student of the subject. You can be very skilled and still be a student, for example: instrument rating students. You could have hundreds of hours of flying experience as a private pilot, be licensed and a very skilled pilot. When it comes to instrument procedures, however, you would still be a student. I’m not saying that the person in the video was, I was just replying to the original comment, but implying that all students have no idea what they’re doing is a bit inaccurate.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

@@noooby100 Everyone is a constant student in aviation. If you're not, you're dead. It would be more informative to discuss their relative flight experience and recency (and it is the reason these are used as the metrics everywhere when discussing proficiency).

[@zoktoberfest]

I may not be a pilot but I always had an interest in aviation. I love listening to this man talk. He speaks with such coherence and clarity and I have learned so much about the science of flight just in the length of video. Thank you for for sharing your immense aviation wisdom.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

I have done plenty of ridge flying in gliders with clouds near by and I would NEVER make the decision to turn towards the ridge and closer to the clouds. In my opinion that instructor made a STUPID decision and he’s lucky he didn’t kill both of them. Bad instructor!

[@rockcrawler3119]

Would have made an interesting topic for your channel. One of my favorites!

[@Alvan81]

Do you have a theory as to *why* they did this? I don't see how it could be 'learning', since they don't have the navigational equipment they need.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

@@rockcrawler3119 thank you.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

@@Alvan81 my theory is that the instructor made a very wrong and bad decision. I never would have done that. I would have turned away from the ridge and clouds, lost some altitude then go back towards the ridge to try and gain altitude again so I could keep flying.

[@SVSky]

Me neither.

[@duanequam7709]

I call it complex answers for simple people. I learn something every time I watch this channel.

[@USMCArchAngel03]

I'm just going to go ahead and nominate Juan for the best human axis demonstration for 2020. Great video once again. Happy Thanksgiving Juan and everyone!!

[@mrgone658]

I'll second that nomination.

[@ufm10xxl27]

Me 3

[@christopherleveck6835]

Best hand flyer around.

[@hut8_newzealand361]

I'm deducting points because he demonstrated yaw then roll then pitch but he said roll, pitch, yaw.

[@christopherleveck6835]

@@hut8_newzealand361 You're the reason we have three judges...

[@michaelculpepper3845]

An important lesson to bring up. My dad was a Naval Aviator, when he was teaching me to fly his mentality was if you’re going to fly at all getting an instrument rating is a requisite. His close call was in an A-4M as the wingman in a 2-ship during a night TACAN approach in to an airfield on the coastline. He was #2 on lead’s starboard wing, the initial took them over the field then out over the water, so it was black on black other than the runway lights and a few scattered lights along the shore. They started a left hand penetration turn, once they set the bank angle he turned his head left to look over his shoulder back towards shore for a moment looking for the runway lights, then quickly turned his head back to the right to put eyes back on lead at which point suddenly he felt like the whole world was violently rolling to the right. He was an experienced test pilot and a flight surgeon at this point, which he says is probably the only reason they both survived. He instantly recognized he had vertigo, his training kicked in and he immediately went on the gauges. He said it took everything he had to ignore his body telling him to roll the aircraft left, which would have rolled him in to his flight leader, and to trust his instruments. He radioed lead that he had vertigo and was going lost wingman, gently rolled right to wings level to get away from lead, discontinued the descent, and maintained straight and level flight. Lead carefully re-joined on him and helped talk him through while his ears settled, got reoriented, then turned back inbound and landed without incident. “Trust your instruments, not your body”

[@johnfranklin1955]

You can hear the pilot yelling “ nose down, nose down!” Close Call! Once again Juan with a great explanation of what we are seeing. 👍

[@winsor68]

That was the student calling it.

[@Tricia_K]

@@winsor68 Student pilot?

[@winsor68]

@@Tricia_K I'd guess he was a tourist pilot rather than a student. A lot of pilots visit NZ and Australia for the flying conditions.

[@Tricia_K]

@@winsor68 Thanks for clarifying :)

[@johnfranklin1955]

Winsor Family I know who said it, I watched the video.

[@thomasschikarski8949]

As a glider instructor and glider aerobatic pilot I did some number of intentional spins with gliders. You learn to distinguish them from a spiral by the sound it makes. This one sounds more like a spin than a spiral. Also from the sound after the spin I would say the speed isn't too high. With this kind of glider a spiral would make a very high speed very quickly (like in the first break out of the clouds). So, my guess is a stall with a short spin.

[@dannyzuko9967]

Needs a new instructor that guy let him fly into a really bad situation.

[@WG55]

Yes, letting him fly blind into clouds next to a ridge was dangerous.

[@Mike7478F]

10/4

[@oldschoolman1444]

Definitely a crap your pants moment

[@TheBritInHungary]

Trying to be kind but being a flying instructor is a feast to famine kind of job if you're self employed. When you're on your arse, the necessity of earning some dosh overtakes common sense. I've been there.

[@solarnaut]

@@TheBritInHungary thanks ! an ugly underbelly that can discourage prudence in all manner of enterprise . . . tough, in this case would the pre$$ures you speak of primarily motivate the instructor to take off in suboptimal conditions, more than giving the nod to fly into the dangerous side of the ridge - or you suppose that option was "part of the deal" more probably than Juan's "complacency" hypothesis ? B-)

[@airport4967]

I was one of those power pilots who wanted to try the glider flight....the instructor lot told me exactly what I would do wrong....I had hundreds of tailwheel time so the take off was a non event and I could stay in the box behind the tow plane,,,no fuss no muss.....we sailed for less than a half hour and it was non-eventful....LANDING...all different...the stick is so much more responsive and if you try and flare, and I was told not to, but the instinct, after all those hours in power, made it happen..can you spell porpoise...and porpoise and recovery....recommend you go glider before you go power....that's what my instructor suggested....but already the power guy...it was an eye opening experience...

[@bahopp9872]

Excellent explanation Juan. I learned a lot. Thanks for your hard work in presenting these videos.

[@remsmith3233]

Could not help watching the sailplane video thinking about Richard Collins, Flying Magazine who passed away. You, like Richard made sure he wrote about safe flying skills that kept us, the reader of his articles, aware of what it takes to be good safe pilots. Thanks for your time and effort.

[@dewiz9596]

My instructor had me shut my eyes tight, and fly. . . After about 90 seconds, he had me open my eyes; I was inverted, in a spiral. I was “under the hood”. . . then he had me recover. My instructor had balls! I don’t know where he is now, but, probably thanks to his instruction, I’m still alive. . .

[@Mike7478F]

Yip. Agreed.

[@rbeard7580]

I had an instructor like that. He also had me "scud run", but on a completely clear day. He wanted to show me how difficult just the navigation part can be just couple of hundred feet above the ground. He'd end the lesson by saying: "Now imagine just climbing a couple or three hundred more feet to get your bearings was not an option." (PS - done over flat, open rural terrain.)

[@barryon8706]

That sounds like a really good way to show a pilot why you trust your instruments.

[@aeon8721]

I had the same training experience. Being a bit slow with the recovery in one taught me that I grey out to tunnel vision at 4.5G and wouldn't take 5G ...

[@christopherg1193]

He forgot that he already retired from Air Force and we don't build a population of recruites in general, but I love how easy and understandable he explains it! Thanks boss! Greetings from Germany!

[@alasdaircrawford2695]

Ridge Soaring is one thing, cloud flying another. They sure don’t mix. I simply can’t fathom the decision making there. Wow, were they lucky.

[@charleskasmarek4272]

Listen to AC. He knows of what he speaks ! the 126 jockey DeltaBravo

[@RealWoolfe]

As a student pilot during a solo cross country in a Cherokee 140 I chose to fly through clouds due to pressonitis. Disorientated , instruments didn't make any sense, (though with only 30 hours only had a rudimentary understanding anyway), spiral dive, came out of clouds at probably a 70 degree bank and luckily had enough height to wings level and recover. Didn't tell my instructor when I got back which was dumb. Anyway luckily lived to tell the tale and learnt a valuable lesson.

[@christheother9088]

Instructor: "Hey lets try something I've gotten away with a few times before. It usually turns out OK."

[@Lavaman3682]

You misspelled NASA

[@sucher22]

Dumb and Dumber. Two idiots allowing themselves to get into that situation in the first place. They should each take Charles Darwin's advice and not reproduce. They will contaminate the gene pool.

[@flyboy712]

That's often the attitude. And in NZ things are a bit less formal in terms of safety....they think of themselves as knowing better than the "rules".

[@pauln1557]

There is a well used expression here in NZ - 'She'll be right'. It's used to reassure yourself/others that a dodgy situation, or piece of work, will (probably) be OK. The instructor may not have said it out loud, but it sure looks like he was thinking it!

[@MrAlexrowlands]

Sends shivers down my spine. Shame we cant see instruments after the camera slumped. I suspect as he 'slingshotted' up again his speed bled off, he was in a slight turn. As his speed bled he probably went below 1g, then when the g came back on as he turned he entered an incipient spin. Classic situation off a winch launch failure, pilot puts the nose down, below 1g stall speed, but below 1g. Initiates a turn and spins as the g returns, in a bank, at below 1g stall speed. We demonstrate that in sailplane training here in the UK. Just my humble impression.

[@AndyJSThomson]

I’m not a pilot, but discovered how hard it is to maintain orientation, when you can’t see the horizon, when riding a motorbike in fog.

[@implicitmatrix1312]

I've had a similar experience skiing in clouds above the tree line. When everything is comepletely white, you no longer no which way is up, and you can not tell whether you are accelerating or decelerating.

[@jackfrost2146]

I had the same experience when riding a bicycle on a pitch black night. I was swerving from one side of the road to the other without noticing. No matter how steep the lean on a turn, it can't be felt. The same as a coordinated turn in a plane.

[@tomsmith3045]

Really good point. I think there are a lot of similarities between riding a bike and flying. For one, they're both exercises in risk management.

[@jackfrost2146]

@@tomsmith3045 Can't argue with that!

[@nelsonbrandt7847]

Excellent description of ridge soaring as well as the components in the glider cockpit and speed to fly. Speaking as though you’re a sailplane pilot. Didn’t know if you are or not but you certainly understand the concepts and explain them clearly. Very well done sir.

[@fulviosanna]

Not many people have the qualities to explain complex things in such a clear and understandable way...well done as always Juan!

[@daemn42]

One can think of your vestibular system like water in the bottom of a bucket. As you move the bucket around, the water sloshes fore-aft, side to side and around and around. Little hairs along the insides of the bucket detect movement of the water, but they also exert a drag on it, so the water eventually catches up to the speed of the movement of the bucket. This means your vestibular system can detect only accelerating rotation in any axis, but not absolute rate of rotation. Once yaw, roll and/or pitch rate stabilizes to a constant value in the 1G spiral dive the water rotates at the same rate as the bucket so you don't sense rotation at all. This is also why if you spin around for a while and then stop, you feel like you're still spinning as it behaves as though the water is still rotating.

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

Taking your eyes off the horizon is also one of the quickest ways to bring on sea-sickness in a short sea. When your inner ear is telling you that you're pitching and rolling and your eyes only see a bulkhead the same distance away all the time, say in your bunk, it can really screw you up until you get used to it.

[@lonnywilcox445]

A ball on a string works to give your eyes a reference so your brain can calibrate your ear to what is happening and will help prevent sea sickness. On the flip side, if the ear is still and the reference, say your kind of an ahole friend is rocking back and forth in front of you, it will make you just as seasick as steady rollers with no horizon particularly if your eyes and ears were already out of whack from being in said rollers.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

@@lonnywilcox445 That's what you learn to use the artificial horizon for when instrument training.

[@manifold1476]

​@@lonnywilcox445 You forgot to include the info for the length for the string.

[@dennisk5818]

As a young pilot, I was up in a Schweizer 1-26 on a cumulus filled, VFR day, with great lift, in eastern PA. I was probably over 3K ft AGL, with a cloud base ~ 3500 ft., under a tall Cu, and a left bank, just enough to keep in the somewhat wide thermal. As I neared cloud base, I thought I'd get one more turn in and continued. Next thing I knew, I was in the cloud. There was a lot of lift inside because of the thermal movement within. All I saw was white. I kept my head and got off the bank (feeling my attitude in my seat and body position), noticed the yaw string, then nosed down to get out of and below the cloud base. It took what seemed like an eternity, but finally spotted the ground. The glider was in decent form, and without a real roll angle. The yaw string was suggesting ok control form - no slip. It taught me several great lessons, though.

[@Tomsfoolery.]

Wow, that had me on the edge of my seat for a bit!

[@rbeard7580]

Me too! Juan was clever not to tell us the ending right away.

[@michaelsimpson9779]

Edge of the seat and leaning to the right, away from the ridge......

[@CaeruleanWren]

@@michaelsimpson9779 Haha, yup. Shit made me so tense to watch, and I kept catching myself leaning to the right side of my screen as they were flying beside the clouds.

[@billdennis2993]

Happy Thanks Giving to the Browns, Thank you Juan for your expert input on this incident and real world experience in all things in aviation. Glad to see you back in the air.

[@canofanger]

This gets me right in the gut. I flew in the bush for years and had a couple of very memorable close calls which could have been fatal. Other bush pilots I've worked with have said the same thing. That is what has made us much less trusting of younger pilots we work with now when we leave the flight deck. Advancement is much quicker these days and many pilots have never had the opportunity to truly scare themselves before getting behind the controls of a jet with many trusting passengers on board. I'm glad these guys made it and the student will be a much better pilot in the end because of it.

[@farayidarlingtonchaparadza20]

I agree with you 100% When I was learning how to drive my instructor used to over emphasize the importance of the 'over the shoulder check' before initiating any turns. A near fatal brush in the freeway once I got my license was the awakening moment. Experience truly is the best teacher.

[@bobanderson4732]

This is great information that provides a wonderful learning experience to viewers. Thanks so much for making videos and commentary like this available.

[@SmittySmithsonite]

MAN! That was close!! Skimming the treetops. Nice recovery by the student there. That situation could've went south real quick.

[@baomao7243]

... the student...has become the teacher...

[@ThomStanton]

Just a flight sim flier here, bit I watch your channel all the time. Your spin-stall related videos have given me presence of mind to recover and skim the treetops rather than panic and plant the plane in 'em. Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'm sure it'll save someone in the reals like it saves me in the sim. 🙂

[@alexearyle6159]

Thank you for such a great explanation. In these cases a clear explanation is important.

[@12jsteve]

Amazing- This glider vid pops up on my feed only yesterday and within 24 hours here’s Juan with a great explanation of the situation! I’ve done a bit of gliding in the past and watching this scares the life out of me. Thanks for covering this Juan. 👍

[@davidapp3730]

Some gliders have a very nose down spin. Owned an Open Cirrus at one time and it would spin like a top. While flying in wave conditions the cloud can close in under you if you are not careful. I was descending from a wave climb one afternoon when the cloud gap closed up leaving me descending in cloud. Broke clear of cloud at 900 feet and had a suitable field off to my left. Someone was looking out for me that day.

[@motorTranz]

Excellent analysis Juan! Thank you!

[@alexaltrichter1597]

Flying in clouds has got to be the worst. I'm not a pilot and can only imagine how scary this can be. I've driven in dense fog and it doesn't take long before you haven't a clue where you are. Good report Juan, happy holidays.

[@crono331]

@@LTVoyager i agree. i know folks who can fly for hours in IMC and not even blink. as for me, i dont fly enough to be able to do it. i had a couple encounters with IMC but i always have at least an AI on my panel, i was always able to get out of it. but i surely did not enjoy it.

[@flyingfiddler90q]

@@crono331 If you're a well trained Instrument rated pilot and are planning on entering the clouds on an IFR clearance it's actually a lot of fun.

[@peterlonstrup5517]

Thanks for this. keep up the good work. Never ever get complacent with the airplane you fly or the conditions you fly in!!!

[@TheAverageDutchman]

First comment I would make at the start of the video is that the student doesn't really seem to have the skills to be flying in these conditions (bad visibility, lots of clouds around) in the first place just from his yaw control. The yaw string is all over the place (gets even worse the more nervous he gets when trapped in the clouds later) and there is NO reaction on his feet. He's not using the rudder. That's glider control basics. Bad yaw control is a major no-no in my club (we fly a Puchacz, which has an bad and not ENTIRELY undeserved reputation for easy spin entry. Tight yaw control is a must). The first mistake happened in the preflight briefing, when the instructor should have asked himself whether both he and his student were up to flying in these conditions. As to the variometer beeping (I believe Juan calls it the altimeter sound) stopping in sink: E-vario's in gliders have 3 sound settings usually. Off, Lift and On. Off is obvious, sound off On means the vario will beep in both lift and sink, higher pitched interrupted tones in lift, continuous lower pitch in sink Lift means the vario will only beep in lift, but not in sink. This is the setting used most of the time because if not flying in lift a glider is always losing altitude, so the constant dull monotonous "wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhuuuuhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuu" of the vario quickly gets on your nerves and makes your mood match it's sound so you set it to Lift mode and just assume you're sinking when you hear no sound. This does mean you have to keep a closer eye on your altimeter and vario when in sink instead of relying on the audio cues. What happens when the glider makes the slight left turn around the cloud is that they are now flying into sink of the air flowing back DOWN over the back of the ridge. Flying into that at this altitude above the ridgeline is an unforgivable mistake and would have been very dangerous even without the clouds, the sink behind the ridge can be very strong and very turbulent, leaving you little margin for error in extracting yourself from the situation when at lower altitude. When flying parallel to the ridge, speeding up isn't going to help, you're still going to be in the air flowing down over the peak of the ridge. The only way out is either turning away from the ridge to left (and hope you cross the sink before running out of altitude and then have lift on the other side of the valley or a place to land there) or turn right and cross back over the ridgeline (only possible if enough altitude is available to safely cross the ridge again). They lost focus on where the ridgeline was due to getting distracted by the clouds and made a bad decision (not to mention the problem of ridgelines being glider magnets. What is someone else decided to fly the same ridgeline?). The backside of the ridge is also where clouds often form, so there's even less chance of clear air there. Then when he starts unknowingly diving during the decent he's already making a slight turn, making a bad situation worse. When coming out of the clouds he rolls HARD left, and pulling the stick no longer gains any altitude or loses any speed. It just increases G forces (classic spiral dive/graveyard spiral). I think after that the instructor is having a hard time orienting with the limited visibility and judging from the lack of wind noise (and the ground/trees we see shortly after) the glider is about to stall as the instructor pulls the nose up and the student is indeed warning about lack of airspeed and incipient assymetric stall/spin. It's hard to judge whether they actually entered the stall or not (but I think the student reacted in time to prevent that). The basic rule I was always taught for flying near clouds is to avoid it if possible, and never fly OVER or into clouds. As long as you can see the ground below and a bit ahead of you, you'll probably be fine. If it closes up, get your speed up a little bit, pull spoilers/airbrakes and decend to below the cloud layer as soon as you can manage. Avoid any areas known to contain Cumulus Granitus if at all possible. If you notice airspeed increasing rapidly, pull full airbrakes but only pull on the stick if it doesn't increase G-forces (if it does, you're in a spiral dive). Get out of the clouds so that you have a reference before attempting ANY correction, otherwise just center the stick and wait. Now can you imagine the good old days when cloud flying was allowed in FAI glider races and 20 to 30 gliders would all dive into the nearest towering CU, thermalling completely blind inside the cloud to gain as much height as possible, using only a turn indicator and compass as "added instruments" above a basic ASI, Altimeter and Vario... I get nervous just thinking about it.

[@g6rcteam81]

That was so close it got me jumpy just watching it go down. Thanks Juan for another good lesson .

[@twizz420]

That student saved that instructor's life because if that student didn't force the stick down and the instructor kept pulling it, they would have almost certainly been killed.

[@pappybo49]

Good job Juan! Very important instructions we can all put to good use. Thanks

[@harlandfazardo799]

I think that airline pilots should get sailplane training once a year

[@WG55]

Sully was an expert in flying sailplanes when US Airways Flight 1549 occurred, and it showed.

[@RalphEllis]

Been saying the same for years...

[@markthomas6045]

@@WG55 ...so was the pilot of the Air Transat A332 that put down in the Azores after he lost both engines over the Atlantic because of a fuel leak

[@sillyoldbastard3280]

The majority of members in the glider club I belong to are commercial pilots for the major airlines.

[@robertborchert932]

Hehe...my brother learned the ropes on gliders. When he flew the B-52, he told me his instructors were elated. The B-52 shares some flight characteristics. Well, more than you think. Glider experience is unique. The only energy you have has nothing to do with powered flight. I'm glad these guys made it. Flying into IMC requires a special skill set. They had limited instrumentation for this task. What saved the day? CRM. These pilots both pitched in.

[@MrKamasuki]

Goosebumps all over my body. The two have learned something for life.

[@turbofanlover]

Wow. Incredible footage...and an incredible job of explaining the situation. I so appreciate the absolutely outstanding ongoing content on this channel. As always...thank you so much, Juan. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. :)

[@miksal26]

As somebody who has flown gliders in various conditions in Australia ( lncluding small doses of mountain soaring ), this presentation had my toes curling . The thought of ending up in cloud was my worst nightmare. I hope you use this video often to inform young bold pilots. Cheers from Downunder👍😷🇦🇺🇺🇸

[@jroar123]

Happy Thanksgiving Juan Brown and all!

[@pavg]

On of the best explanations for this phenomena. Well done Juan.

[@SgtHulka_III]

Thanks so much for explaining what happened.

[@TakingOff]

Thanks Juan... there's a lot I learned watching this. The instructor had a smart device mounted, it would have been handy to have some software like the ForeFlight with synthetic vision as a backup for IMC conditions.

[@MatematicaTel]

Very good and useful information. Thank you very much!

[@paultopguy9077]

There are plenty of land out options in that area. Turning to the right to track the ridge or ducking below the clouds would have simply meant that they could have safely landed out. Land outs from this ridge are quite common with plenty of safe areas to land.

[@stankakol5195]

Juan, I am a subscriber!! You commentary is the absolute best!!

[@benjaminl3084]

Juan could be this generations John and Martha King instruction! Love the explanations! Thanks for all you do Juan!

[@pasha12343]

Again , another great explanation 👍🙂 I know nothing about flying but always enjoy this series . Thank you .

[@winsor68]

The instructor seemed to be a passenger. Thank goodness the student was there to save the day

[@MBdrummer3288]

Man, this had me on the edge of my seat!!! So happy they made it out. Nice job with the explanation Juan. I watch everything you put out!

[@rogerblackwood8815]

Human performance and limitations was my absolute least enjoyable subject in pilot training, many years ago! But understanding the way your brain sees the world is as important as being able to accurately fly an ILS to minimums! Very well explained Juan👍

[@TheBritInHungary]

I was an instructor for many years. After a long period of bad weather, I was pretty much broke but someone rang up desperate for a trial flight so I thought 'what the hell'. I took off already worrying about landing 30 mins later. Classic VMC into IMC trap. Ran out of holes in the cloud with a very basic panel. Resorted to selecting full chat whilst aiming at the brightest part in the sky to try and stay S & L. After what seemed like hours, popped out on top with the sun in my face and counted myself extremely lucky to be alive. Poor passenger absolutely loved her flight - had no idea that I nearly killed us both! Be careful guys. X

[@gregmarchegiani6656]

I believe the key to increase safety from the sole angle of human factor is diversification. Fly different airplanes, force yourself to tackle different study topics than the usual ones, characterize new maneuvers and unfamiliar procedures. I am a C27J instructor pilot, and I went out for a dual ride in a PA28 for a CFII certification. It was a cloudy day but absolutely compatible with VFR, so I thought “cakewalk”, and I was not even wearing a hood. Upon entering a layer, while demonstrating a holding entry (!) using the old fashion VOR instrument, I suffered spatial disorientation for I would say 30 seconds or so, started banking jus as you briefed, the IP with me had the time to say something on the lines of “Hey Greg??” And I fell back to basic instrument training, abandoned that VOR instrument I was probably chasing too much and recovered to straight and level climb obviously botching the entry (but who cares at that point). I fly actual IMC all the time, really, but just with another instrument configuration. I am glad that a change of environment, ops, aircraft type, cockpit, etcetera, keeps me glued to the issues of general aviation every once in a while, and I urge all pilots to invest in safety by flying something different in a different environment sometimes. Yes there may be embarrassment, things long forgotten and labeled “inapplicable” in the “normal” workplace (piston engines and their quirks, for example) but I believe it is a great safety stimulator.

[@dwlawson78]

I'm not a pilot but continue to be thoroughly absorbed by the content of your videos. Each time I watch one I gain new respect for you and your skill at explaining the physics of flying and new respect for what good pilots deal with each time they go up. Thanks.

[@johntkearns]

Comedian Bill Burr referenced this video and your channel in his podcast this week. Cool.

[@TWA-km9wt]

Great video Juan. Outstanding information presented by you.

[@seanmcerlean]

That was a very close call Juan.I can imagine the conversation afterwards would have been interesting. Joining as a patreon today as well.

[@blancolirio]

Welcome Aboard Sean!

[@seanmcerlean]

@@blancolirio my pleasure Juan.i have been following you for a while & felt it was about time.

[@RafMov]

Thanks for professional approach to the topic! I am glider pilot flying ridge and mountain wave passing non intentionally through the clouds but with turn indicator an artificial horizon installed for safety reasons.

[@danielsnook5029]

I flew this route a few hours later when the weather improved, it still smelled of poo.;)

[@blindfreddy]

lol

[@JoshuaDomoslai]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@junehigham2742]

Wonderful video, my respect for pilots increases every time I watch your channel.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

Unpowered flight into IMC, even with a pilot competently instrument rated, is the beginning of a very bad day.

[@philplane3181]

Glider cloud flying isn't that common in NZ, but we get British pilots that cloud fly often. In the right circumstances it can be useful. So not a problem if you do it right.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

@@philplane3181 At least do it in a glider with a horizon display as that is your windscreen when the windscreen is INOP. Gliders flying around mountains in IMC clouds just doesn't sound like a recipe for pilot longevity, particularly considering gliders do not have GPWS nor any way to escape terrain.

[@philplane3181]

@@takingthescenicroute1610 You shouldn't do it near mountains. The incident shows bad judgement and a lack of understanding of the soaring situation. Instruments wouldn't help. Did you notice the turbulence? That would be challenging. Flying gliders in clouds can be done safely. People do it all the time. But not in the circumstances shown in the video. You don't need instruments to fly gliders safely, although they help. You can fly safely in mountainous areas, but you need to know what you're doing. The closer you are to terrain, the less margin for error. With wind and cloud in mountains you are in a very dynamic and unforgiving environment. You need to do the right things at the right times. The most important thing is to be thinking ahead of the aircraft. Your attention needs to be outside the cockpit watching the attitude of the glider, where the terrain is, where the clouds are, what the air is doing. Eyes down in the cockpit is not going to help. In those conditions your priority is staying clear of the cloud, not being able to fly in the cloud. Early in that video you can see clear air on the right. Flat terrain, nice fields, etc. The camera shows a limited view direct ahead. I'd suspect they had plenty of good escape options right up until they turned left. Once you're going downwind your over the ground position changes rapidly. No more lift as you go over the top of the mountain range, then strong sink and turbulence once you're in the lee. Lucky for them the Ruahine ranges has a steep dropoff on the lee side, so once they crossed they had more air underneath. You notice how quickly things deteriorated? It went from some sketchy ridge soaring that was breaking the cloud clearance rules but wasn't particularly dangerous then as soon as they turned left they stopped climbing, sank into the clouds, got beat up, popped out the back in a matter of seconds. A very dynamic situation.

[@alasdaircrawford2695]

@@philplane3181 Yeah perhaps, sure doesn’t mix with Ridge soaring though!

[@LouisPrudhomme]

@@philplane3181 for me the « just don’t do it near a mountain, that’s all » argument doesn’t stand a chance. I mean, just DON’T go anywhere near IMC under VFR. It’s that simple. What if there actually WAS a mountain in there? It’s a basic case of : « How do you know it’s hidden, if it’s hidden? » Plus, I don’t even want to imagine if there was an actually instrument-rated pilot, under legal IFR, cruising in that cloud. How on Earth are you going to avoid him...? Aren’t you supposed to maintain separation visually? 🤔

[@doctorartphd6463]

Wish you and your family a wonderful and heartwarming Thanksgiving. Blessings....and thanks for your research.

[@helmuthschultes9243]

This case somewhat reminds me of my first glider flight. On my first job my boss was about to take up a gliding course and offered me to pay for me too, abd we wnt for a trial flight. Sadly the chief instructor had overlooked me most of the day as he took a number of others up on trial and intro flights. Mid afternoon a weather front approached, and most gliders were being stowed. He started getting his glider towed to the hangar then realised I was still waiting. He made a very bad decision, he got me seated and convinced a tow plane pilot to tow us up. That pilot did object, but did comply. On getting over 1200ft the rain started belting down and we could no longer gain altitude, the tow pilot advised he needs us off tow, and we disengaged. Immediately the entire canopy fogged over, my pilot chucked some rags and demanded I wipe as he must see out. With two vents open and wiping some visubulity was achieved. Rain and turbulence hit, and we were soon in solid cloud. He spiralled (seemed steeper than spin) and we broke from cloud only few hundres feet over the hangars. Pulling out we swept acroos the buuldings in what to me was mere hundres feet or so, acroos two runways, into a sreep climb and turn back to the airfield. To land across the runways towards the hangar. We bear the tow plane down by more than a couple of minutes. The instructor had a very sweaty face, organised for the glide to be put in the hangar and DID NOT LOG THAT FLIGHT. I was too glad to survive to complain. The instructor said nothing to me, but I hoped he learned a lesson. The glider training never actually occured. Years later I had a work colleague who was co ownwr of a couple of gliders and reguoarky flew in crosscountry events. After retiring he move to Queensland where he established good reputation in the gliding community. With considerable experience he also took 9n test pilot of glider tasks. Sadly that ended up fatal, a glider had a regular maintenance overhaul and to complete certification he took it up on test flight. The wings parted and he plunged to his death in the fuselage, spearing into the ground. Fate of I assume possibly for many test pilots.

[@Barzins1]

Great breakdown of the video. Thanks for sharing. My dad was an F-5 pilot during shah’s time in Iran. He had one lesson in a sail plane and that was it fir him. He almost crashed trying to flair on landing and the instructor had to wrestle the controls away from him. You really have to know what you’re doing with these things.

[@RoonDawg4]

Wow that was one of the most frightening videos I have seen.

[@baomao7243]

I agree. That looked SCARY. I have personally flight simulated VFR into IMC. It was pretty eye opening. My observation was that if you’re not FULLY capable of putting ALL faith instantly in the instruments you’re heading FAST toward disaster. I am not instrument rated. But, man, was I immediately thankful to a past flight instructor that kept me under the hood for 3 hours “to figure out how long til I break.” Going into IMC with that “you can do it” knowledge (and a bit of altitude) allowed me to work the issue and escape. But, yeah, if I had panicked I would SURELY have crashed. My takeaway in real life VFR is to keep my distance from IMC (somewhat tough where I fly, near KSFO) as it is deceivingly fatal.

[@rfggibson]

Brilliant clear explanation for a non-pilot such as myself. Great work.

[@electricjed]

Another great video Juan. Thank you for all the time you put into this channel. Ever since I found you after the Kobe tragedy I haven’t left and found the channel very informative.

[@azav8raa]

The Gs were so strong it flipped your logo in the lower left corner at 10:42! Awesome analysis, Juan. I learn something new every visit to your channel.

[@tomsmith5893]

From my experience of the flying these aircraft I'd say that when he turned towards the hill and pulled hard he was actually in a descending spiral rather than a pull up. He looses sight of the hill again because he managed to turn away from the ridge and fly back into cloud. I doubt they were ever ascending significantly. The P2 could have been experienced and on a check flight or it's quite possible he was training but just more "switched on" than the instructor (some of them aren't particularly competent)

[@WolfPilot]

What an awesome dissertation of what leads up to a spin and how it can be avoided or recovered from. Thanks for doing this one Juan.

[@AMStationEngineer]

I was allowed an "extended ride" in a 757 simulator which I repaired under contract to Evans and Sutherland. I was okay, until they ran the pair of us through a "bank angle alert" exercise. With that said, I don't even wish to imagine what those two pilots went through. Glad they're okay!

[@challenger2ultralightadventure]

Excellent analysis of what happened. Thanks for the details and your insight. Cheers from Winnipeg.

[@Zac_B_AZ]

Sent here by ol' Billy red face

[@timallix4407]

Thanks Juan, I really enjoyed this episode! I could relate to it as a former glider pilot in Pemberton, I did a lot of ridge soaring. My training involved a lot of spinning drills; our instructors made us execute deliberate 3 rotations, and to recover pointing at a specific landmark. That training helped me in a lot of situations. The owner of that soaring club, my good friend Rudy Rozsypalek, sadly died in a glider crash in 2013 when he collided with a Cessna 150; it was the 20th anniversary of the club he owned and operated.