Spirit's Ultimate Terran Defense - Starcraft 2: Spirit vs. Reynor

[@amitvinod3334]

23:00 that one marauder charging in by himself and getting an infester on the left

[@mounirnedjadi5076]

Fucking hero is what that was

[@zes7215]

wrr

[@smellypatel5272]

"Times up, let's do this. LEEEEEROY JEEENKINS"

[@Safar_Galimzyanov]

Maradeurs are the best

[@januszkurahenowski2860]

The fact that Spirit could have found this secret vespene geyser in his natural and repaired all his mech units was bothering me the whole time haha. He definitely had a lot of time to find it while nothing much was happening

[@MrZiva82]

hahahaha same here man, like 500 gas was enough for a ton of repairs

[@TheGundyShow]

Even that 1,000 minerals that he won over at the end in the middle of the map. Just fly 1 orbital there and drop 15 mules!!

[@Sanguinarius9999]

I can't understand why reynor hadn't long distance grabbed that 1800 minerals he was sitting on with the 8 drones he still had

[@zes7215]

wrr

[@litlgenjinie2927]

yeah, 500 gas is 2000 worth of repair since it costs 1/4 the original price. Sad he didnt find it

[@faybspufer1272]

I have never witnessed Reynor being that salty :)

[@derpysean1072]

Losing spell casters like that is not good for your mental health. I misclicked once today and I became Artosis. This game is real stress. No teamates to blame man.

[@veilnebula2411]

@@derpysean1072 when i saw the thumbnail i thought to myself oh its just Raynor being cheeky as ever but then i saw the game man and i almost felt his frustration.

[@zes7215]

wrgg

[@botmushin8878]

He's always been like this. x'D

[@zhituhu2822]

​@@derpysean1072 haha poor arty

[@juliuskwak1263]

This is described as a 2023 play, but at the same time it doesn't feel like it. Reynor is one of those players whom you could put up into the "high octane" classification where his gameplay is elevated. But here he plays so restrained and conservatively. "Oh no, ONE MISSILE TURRET! I better run away!" To be fair, it does seem he's gambled everything into mutalisks. So to avert a guaranteed loss by changing comp mid-game, he figured it's better to go all in and try to find some way to make it work.

[@Rosstail]

"another QUEEN bites the dust" I love this double-reference.

[@V3ND3TA.]

8:55 did he said jeadong?? yeah he is the legend

[@LightsOutAce1]

For those wondering about the final outcome of the series after this game: . . . . . Spirit won in 5

[@Tomoyuki_Tanaka]

That's the spirit!

[@zes7215]

wrgg

[@TheGreenRoundBirb]

​@@Tomoyuki_Tanaka 😂

[@ctrain149]

I don't mean to be a backseat gamer, but why around ~12-14 minute mark of this video does Reynor not take a more offensive approach? The name of the game here is to deprive the Terran of resources and Reynor had a decent bank to starve the Terran of any new bases.

[@tigera6]

His army composition was very inefficient to trade, and the Terran has already got a good bank to rebuild as well. At that moment, its already too late to do what you suggest. Normally Zerg need to deny Terran of new base around the mid game (12th-15th minutes game time), where Terran doesnt have a great defensive setup, or higher tech units, or lots of OC.

[@jmgutierrez962]

I saw this live and it was amazing..insane game..kudos to Spirit..

[@newvagabond1375]

spirit along with bunny, have been improving really well with their play 👌🏼

[@zes7215]

wr

[@lolthe0]

30:15 reynor killing own queen

[@theSWBFman]

I missed that, he misclicked the tumour rip

[@tugitbrothers3699]

Jesus that was brutal 💀

[@yoavhayun4590]

07:57 "mutas doo-doo"

[@januszkurahenowski2860]

Damn, the US Air Force is now sponsoring Starcraft 2 events? Maybe it makes sense, I suppose that 500 apm and multitasking would be pretty good for a predator drone operator lmao

[@Franpowah]

That's a scary thought. Reminds me of the meme or rumour of the russian mercenary army inviting Hearts of Iron players to their HQ.

[@clintbelongingco]

haha

[@V3ND3TA.]

this is the longest match 😂

[@arandomguy9479]

9:35 Ghosts sniping lings

[@weltsiebenhundert]

20 min Terra deffending into 20 min Zerg deffending

[@Kagutsuchi4]

So you're telling me Ghosts have: - one of the longest attack ranges in the game that deals 20 dmg to light - EMP that has almost no cast delay, fast projectile speed (almost instant), hits both land and air, drains both 100 energy and shields - Snipe that also has extremely long cast range, can target every single Zerg unit including Broodlords/Ultras/Lurkers, deals 170 damage and ONLY costs 50 energy? - Can turn invisible - isn't as slow as templars and can be healed by medivacs Sounds like balance team is a Terran bias.

[@Nico-nv3ej]

Exactly

[@jasondean37]

To be fair, zerg is also OP when compared to Protoss. Zerg has: - the only near instant cast catch ability, fungal can hit both air and ground AND reveals units - parasitic bomb is OP af, especially when paired with fungal - has the only single target grab ability (this AND ravager bile is instant death on anything static, like tanks) - neural parasite - AND blinding cloud, and vipers can consume to offset EMP Zerg literally has the best 200/200 air army. The protoss fleet is crap against maxed corrupters and vipers lol Protoss has what? - Disrupters, an entire unit, that's okay at picks only against ground, its honestly so make or break its kinda cheese - Feedback is okay against casters only - Storm is the only solidly good protoss ability really - Mothership abilities, but lets be honest, it just dies instantly vs zerg due to abduct - Colossus are a meme - Carriers and void rays feel super weak lately

[@Bernandez4139]

After so many games watching a Terran get slowly bled out by a Zerg over a long macro game, this was a nice reversal.

[@nickcole6682]

Reynor knows that this type of game usually goes the way of Terran. In 2018, Zerg was broken, and with Broodlords long range and Infested Terran, Zerg just had to survive to late game to win. That was wrong, and lead to too many Zerg victories in evenly matched games. The problem is, now it the same, but the reverse. Terran just has to survive into late game, and as long as they are not against one of two Zergs, will nearly always win. Does lead to it being a little predictable and boring, and I think that is what Reynor is saying. Oh well, maybe they will never be able to make it completely even. But I see a lot of Terrans in the finals of everything this year, Katowice, GSL, Dreamhack etc. Zergs may just have to accept that the best times are behind them.

[@lvluptoaverage52]

If you think Terran has just to survive than you don’t understand Terran play. Yes Terran have advantage but they have to be played perfectly. I seen so many games when Terran is completely winning but one fungual or one mistake of the Terran and they lose the game. In the other hand the fast replacement of units of the Zerg and the better economy makes it so hard for Terrans. If the Zerg makes a mistake they can replace the armies or change the whole game by arming on a different way. You saw it here. Terran was winning every fight they took the one single bad fight and they almost lost. The only thing that saved spirit is that by that time Zerg had been depleted economically but even then Zerg was able to rearm very fast and took Terran to the end. If you think this was easy your are so wrong

[@giggusmaximus2167]

​@@lvluptoaverage52 found the terran

[@Wicoy]

@@lvluptoaverage52 totally agree with that. of course zerg can't just lose too badly every fight, but fast replenishment, huge economy and possibility to change compete army composition in seconds is just insane to deal with. at high level zerg might be a bit weaker but for lower levels zerg is very difficult. plus you can consider that zerg has this free units deployment the broadlords and the walking thing (i forgot the name)

[@dwdjs289]

​@@lvluptoaverage52 nah, terran just turtle up and mule a new base instantly. Terran is the most forgiving out of the three race and every aspect is designed for the race to be significantly easier and have less things to keep track of. Forgot detection? Scan out of workers? Mule terrible macro? mules can stack up can't micro? build mech can't fight? ghost snipe everything can't properly get map vision? maphack tower can't split your unit to defend? PF can't win base trade? float building every single terran units require significantly less micro to trade evenly or better. essentially, terran race is designed for people who enjoy low risk high reward easy style.

[@mnmarler]

​@@dwdjs289 found the zerg

[@unclenchasbestos]

Such a cool game to watch happen. Sad to have a comment queue full of nothing but balance complaints in response. Much love to SC2HL

[@SC2HL]

Agreed! I personally loved watching it

[@tommydashed4205]

Crazy that Spirit made such a rise. He was probably in that third tier of pros for a long time but now he's one of the best in EU and maybe a top 5 terran in the world.

[@jkkim6928]

Maru, Byun, Cure, Clem are decisively better, so yeah top 5 contending with Bunny, Heromarine, and Gumiho

[@tictcha612]

Nice video !

[@Rath_9]

What counters mass ghost holy crap man, emps, snipes, liberator cloud to help them against banes and any other ground harass. Always felt like ghosts did way too much for a single unit. Queens on the list too but they have been nerfed 1000 times at this point

[@jesusbarrera6916]

and safe evac with medivacs

[@jkkim6928]

Ghosts are like old infestors with infested terrans. Well at least zerg had it once, and terran does now. So next should be protoss

[@cristianperezbrunet7944]

I mean what can you spect when the zerg makes 81 mutas with mediocre results xD, it was a irremediable whole in the bank.

[@mike_spb3967]

Spirit just doesn't ever repairs anything. Even red hp thor or even a pf

[@januszkurahenowski2860]

If you're talking about the very late game then he didn't have gas and you require minerals and gas to repair units that cost any gas. Repair is not free

[@Whalery]

Repair ain't free fyi

[@theSWBFman]

@@januszkurahenowski2860 that thor was on red hp for like 15 minutes

[@pavelhasala3363]

Reynor got salty when experiencing what tos and terrans have to deal with every game against Z - slowly being chipped out by Vipers and free units zergs produce

[@jackstevens8071]

Ghosts OP asf. 0 debate needed. Zerg controls 80% of the map and loses because the terran sits in his corner and snipes every unit that comes in.

[@cylee4735]

As if Zerg didn’t throw away 16k resources in Mutas? If Zerg play mutas know terrain is playing Ghost mech you are just trading Resources for time and space to mine. Zerg did not manage to use that time and space well so it lost.

[@Nick-82]

Kinda sounds like the zerg player wasnt smart with his resources and engagements.

[@Dave-nz5jf]

I really don't guys play at such a high level and let a Thor walk around for like 20 minutes with 2 health.

[@DanielDem87]

Make 1 million mutas and then be salty about terran camping while actually camping even harder himself after the mutas are gone lol

[@theeraphatsunthornwit6266]

Game can autodraw if you are not careful

[@andrewdumniak7557]

mutas are broken

[@abdulazizalawadhi6569]

this game will go down in history!

[@imbastrat]

Why doesn't Reynor attack his own broodlings with the broodlords and spawn infinite broodlings towards Spirit?

[@Whalery]

The duration is nerfed in the last patch from 5.71s to 3.57s. There is no way you can micro those broodlings to move cross the screen before they die

[@Franpowah]

@@Whalery Yup, Dark tried it ONCE in a tournament and it was a brilliant solution to cancer terran, so it got nerfed like the week after.

[@Premi3R000]

now that's how you play starcraft!

[@baloghbotond4250]

Absolute masterclass of why ghosts ARE OVERPOWERED AS HELL

[@ContriveAI]

how many games u played as terran? #SitDown

[@OmniSkepticSC]

I wish they didn't remove the broodlord's microability by removing the ability to shoot broodlings at their own units to get more distance. Would've given Reynor a way to break Spirit's cancerous turtle terran style

[@AevenSong]

ghosts still op 😂😂😂

[@m0xmAn]

Take a shot whenever you hear the word "damn" :D This caster is ridiculous :D

[@Adresant]

GG

[@AZTCuRe]

always good to see a salty zerg complain in game and then proceed to lose the game.

[@noahlenten8360]

ok

[@jkkim6928]

To all anti-ghost whiners out there, yes I agree ghosts are currently broken. But really good spellcaster micro zergs like Dark, Serral, and Rogue can counter them with a quick burrow unburrow infestor throwing fungal. Y’all are whining here without realizing that Reynor is not that known for late game zerg management including spellcaster usage.

[@berndarndt9924]

I mean, ghosts, ravens, infestors & vipers are to strong in pro play and need nerfs but luckily this was a TvZ.

[@samuelkwon9661]

The ghost is such an annoying unit. Too OP 😭

[@Tomoyuki_Tanaka]

I guess you can say the Ghosts were in line with Spirit.

[@SerbanOprescu]

@@Tomoyuki_Tanaka :))

[@ep103103]

I think this game perfectly encapsulates, ultimately, the issue with SC2 and RTSes more generally from a game design perspective. . Part of the reason "solved" games are less fun to play, is because it means that it becomes theoretically possible to know who should win or lose a game with perfect play right from the outset. That changes the meta of the game from learning and experimentation to one of perfecting technique of a solved solution, even if playing a perfect game game is outside of actual human capabilities. Checkers (draughts) is a solved game for example, but it would require so much memorization as to be impossible for a human. Nonetheless, imho, less fun. . In SC2, at lower levels, games can go either way at any point. The balance between win and lose is so thin throughout the game, and (it feels like) it gets to be a thinner margin as the game goes on. But with perfect play, it seems like zerg has to wound terran or force an error before the late game. Because if they do not, terran can play exactly the way spirit does here. Turtle, slowly grow, build a ghost army, and then use that better unit to eek an advantage and win. It is difficult to do, and at lower levels difficult enough that it isn't meaningfully game impacting, but at this level? How many games have we watched Maru do this to guaranteed victory? . It just seems super frustrating to watch, and a weird game design choice. Here, Reynor messed up with the mutas. Sure, on lower levels, or faster paced and messier games it could have worked, but spirit played well and it didn't. That means Reynor didn't sufficiently wound the terran before the endgame, or force terran into a mistake, which meant spirit could play exactly as he did here. And once he gets to sufficiently grown and turtled, zerg has no counter to perfect ghost play. Lurkers don't do it, Broodlords don't do it, vipers don't. The best I've seen in these videos seems to be infestor/baneling, but that's by no means easy either. . I'm not saying the game is unbalanced. Or that zerg is somehow weaker or that there needs to be a unit change. It just seems like such a weird design choice, because it means the whole meta of SC2 tvz becomes z trying to prevent t from being able to do what t does exactly in this game, and force an error early so it doesn't reach this point, whereupon zerg is guaranteed to lose an excruciatingly long and frustrating death without good recourse. Indeed, it seems like this is the 'solved' way to play terran in tvz, that we only don't see every single game because if you know the terran is going to attempt this style of play from the start, then it can be blind countered from early game by being extremely greedy, so both sides need to play with variety. . I dunno, just seems like an odd choice. I'm guessing this is just an inevitable outcome from what happens when you have very high level competition for long periods of time between asymmetrically designed opponents: the asymmetry guarantees that eventually one side will find a to exploit that asymmetry in their favor, and solved ways to win games begin to appear with perfect play. In SC2, in a tvz, if the zerg doesn't wound the terran sufficiently by early mid-game, do exactly what spirit did here, and eventually the zerg will have no other recourse except to lose, or hope that the terran makes a mistake in implementing the solved solution.

[@osmo80]

hmm I think i see your point but i feel its important to consider that the outcome of a game is not solely determined by a single factor(thats kinda the way i read your comment imo), such as a specific choice available to a player. While certain defensive terran strategies can provide advantages, it is essential to address other critical aspects, such as preventing enemy attacks, managing resources, and maintaining high APM without compromising player health.( wrist issues e.g byung, maru, mvp to name a few) in comparison zerg and protoss dont seem to have much of this problem at high levels of play. This can be evident in many games where compromised wrist, terran players opt to open 2 rax or similar cheesy build to end the game early. so its not taking a toll on their wrists. In the context of Terran versus Zerg matchups, the potential threat of Nydus Worms targeting a Terran player's production facilities can indeed pose a significant challenge or similar situations like bane mines below large clumps of army or muta camping production can end the game instantly for terran if they cant chase or base trade quick enough .However, it is crucial to note that achieving a high level of defense and preventing such attacks requires skillful play and constant vigilance( cant stress this enough). This strategic tradeoff is an integral part of game balance weather on purpose or not i believe. Throughout the match, Reynor had multiple opportunities to succeed, not necessarily by overpowering the opponent, but by capitalizing on the mistakes made by the Terran player. The number of potential mistakes that can occur in Terran versus Zerg matchups tends to be significantly higher compared to Zerg. Even in instances where a player like Spirit wins a decisive battle, it does not necessarily result in an immediate victory. But it can the other way around.

[@ep103103]

@@osmo80 Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. I didn't mean that the game was absolutely pre-determined once the mutas failed. I meant that 'with perfect play' the game was more or less predetermined once the mutas failed. Reynor could have tried to force an error from the terran, and probably should have done so. And 'perfect play' is by no means easy, so you can't take anything for granted. Its a testament to how skilled these two players are that we can analyze a game like this assuming that neither side will make any real mistakes. But what I was trying to get at, is that if you _do_ assume that neither side will make any mistakes, and both will play more or less perfectly, then once the mutas failed, the game was increasingly pre-determined. Its a lot like recognizing a solved end-game in chess, where, even though you're 10 or 15 moves out, if both sides play perfectly, white or black is guaranteed to win. It can still be fun to play, because there is no guarantee that both sides will play perfectly, but that's a fundamental difference in how both sides (should) be playing the game when the two players represent the top tier of competition. My point was more to game design though. All competitive games have end game scenarios that are solved. Using the chess example, as one becomes better at chess, you are instructed to memorize known solved end game states, so that you can recognize them before your opponent. The same applies here, but Blizzard chose to make a game where the solved end game, for top tier play, started with 40 minutes of gameplay left. That's... just an unfortunate game design? I'm a zerg main, and you run into this particular end-game scenario with some (not a lot, but noticeable) frequency in sc2.

[@DiehardMechWarrior]

…is it just me or does every SC2 map look/play the same? Like, where’s the *variety?* Where’s the *changeup?* It’s all the same! It all plays the same! The same cramped, short maps! The same exposed gold bases! The same corridors! The same chokepoints! The same stale, crusty meta! God, would it kill the map-making community (especially the “professional”/tournament map-maker scene) to experiment and go balls out once in a while? Just to shake things up? Like, make a map where EVERY expansion is only accessible by air! With a BIG fight pit in the middle! Or maybe have a map that has EVERY base be a gold base! And have them be separated by deep, incredibly narrow canyons! Watching high level/pro-level SC2 these days is like watching two people trying to see who can paint by numbers faster than the other. New maps, *interesting* maps, would actually bring STRATEGY to this Real Time STRATEGY game.

[@neonknight-1522]

Yeah the maps are all the same but this games multiplayer is supposed to be very competitive so they need to stick to balanced maps. I wish there was an option to play on different maps though.

[@DiehardMechWarrior]

@@neonknight-1522 You can have “balanced” maps and still have variety, though! They all don’t have to follow the same stale, rigid, linear formula!

[@neonknight-1522]

@@DiehardMechWarrior true i recently show a couple maps that were different

[@tigera6]

@@DiehardMechWarrior Because players themselves will refuse to play the map that are too innovative or different. You do know that the mapmaking competition (TLMC) are being judged partly by the players right? So if they dont like a certain map the players can just rate it really low and it never got out.

[@jkkim6928]

1) Yeah, Chess is such a classic strategy game because it has so many interesting boards, oh wait.. 2) tigera6 -> this

[@artanis5163]

These maps are not helping zergs at all

[@kevincadelina8288]

Dean de mar penis the best

[@scrublord09]

It's okay guys. Terrans are only winning everything and made up all 4 players in the final four for the GSL. Terran is definitely not overtuned or anything. Terrans suddenly beating people they usually lose to on the regular nowadays Definitely isn't related.

[@tigera6]

So you think Terrans like Maru-Cure-Byun-Bunny usually lose to all the other players and now they just "suddenly" get good? Got to check your brain, buddy. And in EU Clem has been around for a couple years, Spirit is the surprise case but he has improved. Then we have Oliveira who standing on top of the Asia region for years as well.

[@Termiinus]

ghost out ranging every unit in the game besides maybe tempest is crazy. so op. cant do anything against them unless terran makes a retard mistake.

[@數學系大大]

笑死 有夠浪費時間

[@kilimnataniahu4175]

Firts!

[@RandomCarrot2806]

Shame about the typo, does that make me the proper First! ?

[@dwdjs289]

Terran Imba, forgiving af race

[@balazspeter1721]

Terran is imba. Liberators just ruin the game. Just the small stepping with the siege units and turtleing is disgusting. Liberators and widow mines need to be removed and scv mass repair and mules need to be reworked. Massing orbitals is just infinite money and map heck combined with more army supply. Where is the balance?

[@zhadoomzx]

Terran is such a noob race. Turtle all game and win with mass ghosts. Not fun to watch, not fun to play... should be removed from the game.

[@dizzlebizzle8424]

touch grass, you're too emotional about the balance of a video game

[@neonknight-1522]

So removing one of the 3 races in the game is a good solution. Very emotional indeed.