Spirits {Lore - Spoilers All}

Welcome, welcome! Are you curious about what lives in the fade? Perhaps confused between spirits and demon? Maybe you just like weird shit? Then come and listen to what is known~
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This video does contain story spoilers for the Dragon Age games and other related media.
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[@josephmoore5422]

Solas: Interesting how widely Fereldan beliefs diverge. Sky Watcher: Call me Fereldan again, elf, and see how far you get.

[@jaspr1999]

Myself, I see the Avaar as the most enlightened and are, possibly, the most dangerous as they can bring untwisted spirits to help them with both internal and external problems. Since the other races really don't know how to deal with spirits the Avaar seem more akin to the beliefs established by the Chantry.

[@adamjones4609]

jaspr1999 Except they worship the spirits and not the Maker. Also, the Templar and Mages of the Chantry know how to DEAL with the spirits. They just deal with them harshly.

[@jaspr1999]

Dylan Green, - I apologize for not making myself clearer in what I was saying. Any two groups that work together for mutual benefit usually come out stronger and more enduring than any groups that stand on its own. In this case, spirits and humans. The Avaar don't have to waste any resources on 'dealing' with them or corrupted human counterparts as no resources are expended seeking them out. It would be very easy for the Avaar to ask the spirits to annoy the Templars as a group while the Avaar became the unseen but larger threat. Spirits/demons are the biggest weakness of The Chantry and the Templars as they lock up mages strictly out of the possibility of abominations.

[@flamesofchaos13]

Yes I completely agree the Chantry, Qun, Tevinter, Templars and Circle Magi of been doing it all wrong, The Avvar need not be afraid of Demons because their One with the Spirits!

[@darylmcmexican539]

Dylan Green spirits don't need to be worshipped for them to spread positivity to the real world. Spirit of faith rewards people for their faith in the maker. What the avvar did right is by declaring spirits are their friends, guides and guardians, that's what the spirits become, because they reflect the real world. The chantry dictates that spirits are enemies and they all wish to possess you, and so that's what the spirits reflect on.

[@dlastkatipunero2185]

Spirits on all 3 games have been shown to be very fickle and irrational so that's a danger in itself ...also the avaar often have the risk of abominations running around if the spirits can't or won't kill an innocent young mage not strong enough to release the spirit.

[@Becca-bm8rt]

1:45 Does that imply that the circle's policies towards mages isn't just attracting spirits of rage/despair/fear, but actually creating them as well?

[@msTillacat]

I would really love to play an Avvar Mage in any future DA game! Being possessed by spirits sounds like a cool mechanic.

[@maggiewright3563]

Matilda Nordqvist I would guess that it would be similar to Anders, but more in control and less of what Anders normal do. That would be awesome though to have a mage avvar

[@msTillacat]

I need to play as Anders more in DA2, might be an interesting experience!

[@katarinavidakovic8579]

More likely a horrible experience

[@set9034]

One thing I do know is that all spirits of wisdom should be protected at all cost. One of them dying is like the equivalent of a book being burned.

[@jhaycraft3980]

I think of it more like a full library than a book

[@Sol-cx8dw]

@@jhaycraft3980 yes, with helpful librarian in it. So don't burn the library and librarian, don't kill wisdom spirits.

[@peaceprinceshaxi5978]

Meanwhile tevinter mage from DA Absolution: come on bitch, talk bitch, did i piss you off? Come at me bitch.

[@boo5860]

I really liked the perspective on spirits in the 'Looking Glass' fanfic. It's technically a solavellan fic but it goes so much deeper than that, it's fascinating

[@DarkKing009]

"Magic is a sword without a hilt" by Sten "Humf elf magic" by Sten

[@aliceangel2799]

My favorite part of that is the two handed sword for mages that is justna hilt in DA:I

[@chrisprose]

I understand spirits entering the mortal world (such as through a fade rift), and spirits inhabiting a body of someone whose anger or other negative emotion can twist it from spirit to demon (like Justice inside Anders turning to Vengeance), and also that a spirit can be summoned to the mortal world and then forced to do something that goes against its nature (like Solas' friend in the Exalted Plains). However, what I don't get is that if demons are spirits that have been thus deformed by people in the mortal world, then why are demons also found inside the Fade? Is it from mages going into the Fade and twisting a spirit into a demon and then just leaving them there, is that supposedly what demons are? Solas specifically states that a demon is a spirit that has been perverted from its original purpose. Assuming he's being truthful: who's perverting spirits in the Fade to become things like The Nightmare from DAI (perhaps Corypheus did this one but how did he do it IN the Fade?) and the Desire Demon that Dorian talked of eating grapes and chatting with before it tried to possess him, never mind all those demons you fight inside the Fade in all 3 DA games - the one during your Harrowing, if you're a mage, in DAO; the sloth demon and all the other demons you encounter when Hawke enters the Fade to rescue Feynriel; all the demons you find and have to slay (before you even reach The Nightmare) when you open and fall into a rift at Adamant. It seems that either Solas is full of it or there's something else entirely at play here, like perhaps Demons are created in the Fade the exact same way Spirits are, and then ALSO that spirits can become demons as per what he stated.

[@Pink_Sinthetic]

There are two facets to the world and what lore we have that I think makes both sides valid. If you think about the Avvar specifically and how often then have spirits popping in and out of bodies it doesn't seem hard to believe that spirits and demons can go back and forth. Now, we may not know the exact techniques used, or if one might just voluntarily slip back and forth, especially where the Veil if weak of through a rift. In this case there is intent and desire to return to the Fade; something most demons do not want to do. But if there is a way to send the demon back into the Fade, it's now there, as a demon, and with the desire to get back to the mortal realm. Justice is a little strange, because the way he was forced into the corpse in DAO:A was very odd. You can offer to kill the body and he says he doesn't think that will get him back to the Fade, but he also doesn't know. With Justice there is simply a lot of his "word" taken at face value, by the other characters in the game, and yet even he frequently says how little he actually knows about it. And there's just no reason to really help him leave. He's useful, suits your motto, and is no a living human you have to worry about as much. As for what Solas says, he could very simply be referring to wisps as spirits as well. They are spirits, in reality, but weak ones that have not been influenced by some emotion and latched onto it. I would suspect a wisp has just has much chance to become a "good spirit" as they have to become a demon. It is mortal feelings and emotions that they grasp onto and try to make shape their whole personality around. So, it would make plenty of sense for there to be many demons in the Fade. Perhaps, prior to Solas creating the Veil, the relationship was very different. And he might understand it more, but isn't going to go into all the details about how he is Fen'Harel and created the Veil and screwed everything up. I think, at the core, a Spirit is where it all starts. They are neutral. Then they latch onto something, some single driving emotion or creed. Spirits are at one end of the spectrum and demons are on the other. As of yet, as and far as I am aware, we've never seen a demon actually revert back to a less corrupted/altered state. And honestly, I don't think there can be a way back. Which also makes Anders despair at being the reason for Justice's corruption so sad.

[@UberBri]

I wonder if the Evanuris were spirits that gained enough will to become corporeal like Cole. They all had an aspects or purpose.

[@mattrichard3383]

Yes that's what I think.

[@flamesofchaos13]

That's what I've believed the entire time, It's also means all Elves were once Spirits too.

[@UberBri]

Flames Of Chaos I wonder since Flemith/Mythal could turn into a Dragon, was that the form all Evanuris chose. If so, when Solas created the veil did it made them a kind of Tranquil? Dragon body and soul trapped in dragon form corruptible by the Dark Spawn while their intellect was cast elsewhere?

[@flamesofchaos13]

Well Dragons are different to Demons/Spirits proof of this is in Jaws of Hakkon and the Archdemons their specifically Dragons possessed by Demons/Spirits. So unless Demons/Spirits can possess other Demons/Spirits I can't see the Evanuris being Spirits/Demons and Dragons both. Mythal/Flemeth is an exception I think....Remember in the Elven Legends her Origins is mysterious "Coming from the Sea" can mean the Literal Sea or The Fade/Beyond or even another word for the Abyss, So I think she's of a different Kin/Species compared to the others my guess on her Blood would be that of Dragons and/or Titans. So I don't think the Archdemons are the Evanuris Tranquil Bodies.

[@mattrichard3383]

What if Mythal was not a Evanuris at first , what if she is an Old God. Wanted a change and joined the Elven pantheon, but later betrayed. Schoolers believe that there was actually 8 Old Gods not 7 . Also , when Flemeth confronts Morrigan in DAI she says “ alas as long as the music plays we dance “ sounds like Flemeth is obaying an Old God, kinda like the Blight hears Arch Demons ... just a taught .

[@lucky8dog]

I thought you might have added Solas' take on what spirits are because he has some friend spirits in the fade, there is also his champion quest to save his friend spirit that was bound by the ignorant Chantry mages. Solas said that his friend got change when it was forced to act against it nature and the result it turned into a demon especially if the spirit is forced to kill. If that is the case then maybe mages turn into abominations because they are being forced to act against their nature, and killing leaves the mage proven to possession, just a thought.

[@flamesofchaos13]

Glennis Gill The Magi at this point were in active rebellion against the Chantry....So their actually just Libertarian Cultist Magi. Also interesting idea.....However in DA:Origins Uldred was completely fine with killing yet he became an Abomination, Then there's the Spirit "Abominations" which didn't cause Wynne, Anders and Cole to change personalities.

[@lucky8dog]

Ander's spirit is Justices so killing can be part of justice so no conflict with it's nature, with Cole he is a spirit of Compassion so killing is putting people out of their misery so no conflict with it's nature. As for Wynne her spirit is Faith and people do kill for their faith so gain no conflict with it's nature. With Uldred what spirit was he trying to bring forward and what spirit was he attracting, Pride, pride cometh before a fall. Though I also think strength of character and self help mages and spirits like Cole, Wynne and Anders from turning into their opposite nature.

[@flamesofchaos13]

Glennis Gill That's a justification/excuse you can give for every single emotion there is, Desire they have the desire to kill, Hope they hope to kill their enemies, Hunger they hunger for their enemies demise ETC. But what I'm saying is they kill again and again but it hasn't changed the Persons or Spirits with the exception of Justice turning into Vengeance. So I don't think killing has anything to do with creating Abominations because people have become Abominations willingly so it can't be because of them simply being forced to kill, Plus Pacifists are a rarity most people will willingly kill something they perceive as a threat, So actually the Magi are very much so acting in accordance to Human Nature. I just think Human Experiences, Emotions and Fears cause the Spirit to Mentally Breakdown because their simply only used to one emotion, An if it's a Demon their and the Persons extreme emotional state causes the Demon to go berserk causing the Host's body to deform.

[@rowanlee1619]

I feel as of Anders should probably reach out to the Avaar about spirit possession. He had a difficult time controlling Justice and feared he tainted him. I imagine that Avaar Mages would have answers for him or might even be able to help separate the 2 of them. Sadly, We'll probably get no more on Anders moving forward, so I doubt that would ever play out. It's just an interesting thought.

[@Sol-cx8dw]

It's hard to reach out for help, if you are already dead. :) Unless you pull Leliana thing and cheat death.

[@rowanlee1619]

@@Sol-cx8dw I romanced Anders and didn't kill him. So, he's off somewhere with Hawke.

[@Sol-cx8dw]

@@rowanlee1619 tecnically, he's somewhere alone. Since, you know, Hawke goes either into the Fade or to the Gray Wardens' main stronghold. And this is worrisome, if you really left Anders&Venegance live.

[@rowanlee1619]

@@Sol-cx8dw Not worrisome to me. I like Anders and agree with dismantling and oppressive and abusive system. I was only upset because he lied to me. I would have willingly helped him blow that Chantry up. We should have gone big and blown up the Templar barracks too.

[@joegeo5]

One other notable thing about spirits (at least in my opinion) is that they have the ability to read the minds of mortals. This is most obviously seen with Cole, but it's also seen with the demon that had possessed Pharamond in *Asunder*

[@Doc_Aspy]

Idk why but I was paranoid that you'd leave out the Avvar. Thank you for including them and thanks for another video! :0)

[@tahi4656]

Love your work Ghil, your videos always keep me entertained and have taught me much of the Dragon Age universe!

[@dewittbourchier7169]

I always thought a spirit of Vengeance was more 'in between' a spirit and a demon in that vengeance is driven by a sense of injustice and Vengeance never fully tries to take control as it needs something revenge but can, it seems from Anders, be calmed down.

[@MrJgulley1]

I enjoyed the video, but I was hoping you'd discuss The Lady of the Forest and the avaar gods (in more detail). The lady of the forest mentions that she was NOT pulled across the veil by Zathrian but extracted from the land itself. I've always been hoping to see bioware go into more detail about these spirits who seem to be tied to the natural world more than the fade.

[@aleckaizer884]

This is mostly related to the classifications of spirits and demons but I was recently playing Origins again and the codex entry for Sloth Demons actually equated them to Envy Demons, implying that they're the same. Just a neat bit of info I noticed

[@lotsofkeys3830]

I hate it when your fighting the green wraith demons and they put up the extra blue heath shield right before you kill them

[@ericcloud1023]

Love your videos, your voice is super relaxing, and Dragon Age lore intrigues me. Soooo in other words here I am! Lol

[@martinperry5072]

The fact that spirits embody human wants and needs explains a long mystery to me. Quite a few DA heroine PCs have elaborate hair styles that never get messed up and look bad. Obviously, they've attracted, by force of their person, hair stylist spirits that hover around to keep the PCs' hair looking great.

[@skopde]

Quite insightful and comprehensive summary.

[@shadowhell8378]

I hope that since the next dragon age game is in Tevinter and they believe that with the right spell they can control a spirits that bioware will bring back the Ranger speciality from origins but instead of animals have spirits and demons

[@beatrizvera5043]

Great video! I feel so intrigued by rivain seers, nevarran beliefs and augurs, hope we see more of them in the future.

[@recjr7685]

So the Spirit Warrior specialization from Awakening is an Avaar practice?

[@macieg9537]

i think the Devine in the Fade might have been a hope spiryt :3

[@kaydawne1]

Thanks for the video!!!!

[@loonyman83]

i always thought a simple rule of thumb for spirits was "all demons are spirits but not all spirits are demons." Seems like all the spirits who are associated with immoral desires (pride, desire, sloth, rage, etc." are all demons while the others are just spirits. Until they show us a helpful rage spirit or something of the like i think it's a good rule of thumb lol.

[@27Abadon]

In Jaws of Hakkon you can choose to keep a mage who merged with a rage demon in the Inquisition. Not sure if "helpful" is the right word, but it gave him the power to fight and doesn't fully take over unless you threaten them.

[@loonyman83]

Yeah but he does kind of become unstable and "murdery". I mean sure he's killing your enemies now but what happens when they are defeated? I never trusted that guy.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Look at what emotions the demons take up. Emotions taken to the extreme. Destructive, consuming extremes. There are likely spirits of anger...but I doubt there are spirits of rage. Anger is natural and depending on how it is handled even healthy. Rage is not. Demons seem to be spirits that are unhinged, unbalanced. Saying they are insane could be truth.

[@loonyman83]

While I agree that anger by itself isn't inherently bad or evil I find it hard to think there is a spirit of anger who would be anything but an antagonist or enemy. Look at Justice from DA: Awakening and DA2. Justice was a spirit consumed by the prinicipal of justice, law, due punishment, etc. During Awakening he was forced to take a mortal body (a dead body), but because there were no other influences other than his own he was able to maintain those values. However, when the body was about to decay beyond use Anders offered his body as a vessal. This act allowed Justice to remain in the mortal realm, however Anders' anger towards the treatment of mages twisted Justice into a spirit (arguably a demon at this point) of Vengeance. Gone was the benevolent spirit and what replaced him was a vessal of anger and hatred that would even kill defensless mages if given the chance. For me that's proof enough that anger doesn't mix in the spirit world, and that emotion will lead to spirits becoming demons. To quote a wise man, "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering."

[@jacobfreeman5444]

loonyman83 You kinda made my point. The anger became an extreme thing that twisted him. It became rage. And yes, I would say he was a demon. He wasn't what he was anymore. He was, by comparison to what he was before, twisted and insane.

[@sveipr]

If spirits/demons are fully living beings, could they become blighted? Have we seen an example of this in the series?

[@bluesmurff6163]

Might be what happen to archdemons ?

[@Asteel94231]

I wonder is there a demon called betrayal, what got me to think about it is the 3 biggest betrayals in the game, (loghain , solas, and anders).

[@Pink_Sinthetic]

I think this would essentially be embodied under Rage, but all demons are unique. So the rage could be focused towards a specific instigating facet that might be more likely to send the Rage demon over the edge, should they be in a situation where betrayal occurs. Kinda makes you wonder how many demons the Warden, Champion, and Inquisitor end up influencing into creation. I know my people got frustrated and angry plenty of times. Probably also a lost of lust demons with how much this fandom is obsessed with our romances.

[@olekw.2130]

I wonder what spirits were like before the veil

[@flamesofchaos13]

Olek W. I'm guessing they were all Spirits. Elves were the Spirits who lived on Thedas that slowly took on the image we see, The other Spirits just floated around doing their thing in the Beyond. When Solas made the Veil he severed Elves from their Spirit Roots causing them to turn Mortal, An the other Spirits weaken and became the First Demons. So all Spirits were just Spirits doing Spirity things.....Yeah that's a joke they were at War with the Titans and maybe the Maker too.

[@prieatknight]

Awesome!

[@TheCuriousFan1]

Nothing about the Baroness turning into a pride demon or about dwarves turning into demons/gague shades?

[@nathanmatthews5579]

The gague shades were something likely more closely related to the Titans and the stone than spirits/demons/the fade. As for the baroness, that was a pride demon that imitated her.

[@TheCuriousFan1]

More specifically, I was talking about the guys in Hissing Wastes who turned into things indistinguishable from demons both in-game and in-universe. As for the Baroness, as Justice explains, she "assumed the role" of a pride demon to feed on the people. She didn't get replaced.

[@j.bat.8235]

I low-key see some similarities between Spirits/Demons and the Fade and how the Warp works in Warhammer 40.000/Age of Sigmar, given how the parallel dimensions seem to work akin to one another. 🤔

[@elvenatheart982]

DA4 dlc with Necropolis queatline ? Yes please

[@artii_420]

💜💜

[@ayylmao8375]

Have we seen any hunger demons in the games?

[@mattrichard3383]

Souls are not quite the same as spirits in the Dragon Age world. It would seem people have Souls.

[@flamesofchaos13]

matt richard All of the Spirits we've seen have been well their own beings, When have we ever seen a Ghost/Soul of a Dead Person? Either Ghosts/Souls don't exist in Dragon Age or they do but they can't return to the Mortal Plane.

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

@@flamesofchaos13 what about the ghosts in that ancient elven temple in Origins?

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

@@flamesofchaos13 also the dwarven ghosts in Bownammar

[@flamesofchaos13]

@@viniciusyugulis7278 Spirits mimicking the dead as they do the land. As the Spirit did as the Divine. Souls aren't not confirmed to exist in DA but Spirits recording of mortal lives are. Also with Dwarves it could simply be the Titans remembering the past. Memories don't equal ghosts are real...Only that Magic records the dead along side the living.

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

@@flamesofchaos13 ok, but what about the creation of Golem themselves? To create a Golem you need to trap a soul inside constructions

[@jarifauti4586]

Did you miss cassandra? ...spirit of faith ;)

[@XLois0zero]

Can a mage summon a spirit and not be a demon?

[@astral3997]

I mean technically, a spirit healer technically summoned a good spirit and allowing them to be possessed by said spirit

[@dlastkatipunero2185]

Demons and spirits of virtue should be separate beings as it helps differentiate the dangers of magic.